I am sure an M.D. who is a TOCs surgeon would know whether this
does or does not cause migraines.  I refer you to Dr. Atasoy or
Harold Kleinert, M.D.  If you choose to diagnose and treat
yourself that is your choice.
--- access indo <accesspublishing@...> wrote:

> thanks for your comment, cathy, but i'm not sure i agree. not
> only nerves but major blood vessels pass thru the brachial
> plexus. pressure on this could cause nerve entrapment (classic
> TOS) but also pressure on the blood vessels. a lack of blood
> to the brain triggers a migraine. most migraines are in fact
> cervicogenic (i.e. caused by the neck). the scalene muscle can
> put pressure on the TO, compressing the veins in what the call
> the brachalgia.
>
> i have seen various neurologists, et al and they call what i
> have "cervical syndrome" which is a label for when it doesn't
> fit anywhere else. however, according to what i wrote above,
> the cure / treatment would be the same as for TOS.
>
> i have done quite a bit of research on the net as i have had
> this condition for 15 years.
>
> any advice?
>
>
>
> Cathy <cathyannee@...> wrote:
> As far as I know TOCs had nothing to do with migraines.  If
> you
> tink you have TOCs; then you need to get a diagnosis by a TOCs
> Specialist.  TOCS involves much more than the anterior scalene
> muscle.  tocs is caused my nerves from the neck arms and hands
> being compressed under the top ribs.  All you have to do is
> look
> it up on the net.   YOu need to see an m.D.; we do not
> diagnose
> here.
> --- access indo <accesspublishing@...> wrote:
> >
> > i have a question for my fellow TOS sufferers. my anterior
> > scalene muscle is in constant spasm. i understand that TOS
> can
> > be caused by the anterior scalene muscle and another scalene
> > muscle (can't remember the name) putting pressure on the
> > thoracic outlet. i suffer from costant migraines and wonder
> if
> > i have a TOS problem.
> >
> > when i had my first attack, i lost all feeling in my arm and
> > index and ring fingers.
> >
> > does this sound like TOS? if it is, curing TOS seems to be a
> > simple matter; simply find a way to relax the scalene and
> the
> > TOS will go away. but why do so many people suffer from it?
> or
> > are there various causes for TOS?
> >
> > thx
> >
> > chris in indonesia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> Cathy
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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>
>
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>
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> Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


Cathy




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thanks for your comment, cathy, but i'm not sure i agree. not only nerves but
major blood vessels pass thru the brachial plexus. pressure on this could cause
nerve entrapment (classic TOS) but also pressure on the blood vessels. a lack of
blood to the brain triggers a migraine. most migraines are in fact cervicogenic
(i.e. caused by the neck). the scalene muscle can put pressure on the TO,
compressing the veins in what the call the brachalgia.

i have seen various neurologists, et al and they call what i have "cervical
syndrome" which is a label for when it doesn't fit anywhere else. however,
according to what i wrote above, the cure / treatment would be the same as for
TOS.

i have done quite a bit of research on the net as i have had this condition for
15 years.

any advice?



Cathy <cathyannee@...> wrote:
As far as I know TOCs had nothing to do with migraines.  If you
tink you have TOCs; then you need to get a diagnosis by a TOCs
Specialist.  TOCS involves much more than the anterior scalene
muscle.  tocs is caused my nerves from the neck arms and hands
being compressed under the top ribs.  All you have to do is look
it up on the net.   YOu need to see an m.D.; we do not diagnose
here.
--- access indo <accesspublishing@...> wrote:
>
> i have a question for my fellow TOS sufferers. my anterior
> scalene muscle is in constant spasm. i understand that TOS can
> be caused by the anterior scalene muscle and another scalene
> muscle (can't remember the name) putting pressure on the
> thoracic outlet. i suffer from costant migraines and wonder if
> i have a TOS problem.
>
> when i had my first attack, i lost all feeling in my arm and
> index and ring fingers.
>
> does this sound like TOS? if it is, curing TOS seems to be a
> simple matter; simply find a way to relax the scalene and the
> TOS will go away. but why do so many people suffer from it? or
> are there various causes for TOS?
>
> thx
>
> chris in indonesia
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Cathy




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As far as I know TOCs had nothing to do with migraines.  If you
tink you have TOCs; then you need to get a diagnosis by a TOCs
Specialist.  TOCS involves much more than the anterior scalene
muscle.  tocs is caused my nerves from the neck arms and hands
being compressed under the top ribs.  All you have to do is look
it up on the net.   YOu need to see an m.D.; we do not diagnose
here.
--- access indo <accesspublishing@...> wrote:
>
> i have a question for my fellow TOS sufferers. my anterior
> scalene muscle is in constant spasm. i understand that TOS can
> be caused by the anterior scalene muscle and another scalene
> muscle (can't remember the name) putting pressure on the
> thoracic outlet. i suffer from costant migraines and wonder if
> i have a TOS problem.
>
> when i had my first attack, i lost all feeling in my arm and
> index and ring fingers.
>
> does this sound like TOS? if it is, curing TOS seems to be a
> simple matter; simply find a way to relax the scalene and the
> TOS will go away. but why do so many people suffer from it? or
> are there various causes for TOS?
>
> thx
>
> chris in indonesia
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Cathy




__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
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Treatment of Thoracic Outlet Syndrome:
Effect and results of Surgery
Dept of Thoracic and Cardiovascular Surgery

Please browse the manuscripts at The Society of Thoracic Surgeons
or the California Society of Thoracic Surgeons.
I hope you find this information valuble.
Rmm


thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com wrote:


There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. i think i have TOS and i think i know what causes it
From: access indo


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 21:11:52 -0500 (EST)
From: access indo
Subject: i think i have TOS and i think i know what causes it


i have a question for my fellow TOS sufferers. my anterior scalene muscle is in
constant spasm. i understand that TOS can be caused by the anterior scalene
muscle and another scalene muscle (can't remember the name) putting pressure on
the thoracic outlet. i suffer from costant migraines and wonder if i have a TOS
problem.

when i had my first attack, i lost all feeling in my arm and index and ring
fingers.

does this sound like TOS? if it is, curing TOS seems to be a simple matter;
simply find a way to relax the scalene and the TOS will go away. but why do so
many people suffer from it? or are there various causes for TOS?

thx

chris in indonesia




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links




------------------------------------------------------------------------







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Most docs don't know much about tos . It took me four different type doctors to
agree with something i knew i had all along. My suggestion is call a vascular
surgeon and ask if he can do a tos test on you, also docs that specialize in
repetitive stress injury, chiropractors and a physical therapist can head you in
the right direction. If reaching, grasping or lifting hurt or you have some
chest pain with migraines you may have tos.Just remember though tos cant be seen
on xrays, and mri's except for the one in L.A..  I wouldn't wait. The longer you
have tos the more you'll think oh i can do that or this and make it worst. I'm
permanently disabled at 35 from tos from work. My symptoms started about 10 yrs
ago with the chest pain,  arm and neck, then hands. Good-luck. Feel free to
email me if you need advice.

thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com wrote:

There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. i think i have TOS and i think i know what causes it
From: access indo


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 21:11:52 -0500 (EST)
From: access indo
Subject: i think i have TOS and i think i know what causes it


i have a question for my fellow TOS sufferers. my anterior scalene muscle is in
constant spasm. i understand that TOS can be caused by the anterior scalene
muscle and another scalene muscle (can't remember the name) putting pressure on
the thoracic outlet. i suffer from costant migraines and wonder if i have a TOS
problem.

when i had my first attack, i lost all feeling in my arm and index and ring
fingers.

does this sound like TOS? if it is, curing TOS seems to be a simple matter;
simply find a way to relax the scalene and the TOS will go away. but why do so
many people suffer from it? or are there various causes for TOS?

thx

chris in indonesia




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links




------------------------------------------------------------------------








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i have a question for my fellow TOS sufferers. my anterior scalene muscle is in
constant spasm. i understand that TOS can be caused by the anterior scalene
muscle and another scalene muscle (can't remember the name) putting pressure on
the thoracic outlet. i suffer from costant migraines and wonder if i have a TOS
problem.

when i had my first attack, i lost all feeling in my arm and index and ring
fingers.

does this sound like TOS? if it is, curing TOS seems to be a simple matter;
simply find a way to relax the scalene and the TOS will go away. but why do so
many people suffer from it? or are there various causes for TOS?

thx

chris in indonesia




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is anyone online? This is all new to me........

Note: forwarded message attached.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ENJOY..!

Note: forwarded message attached.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I did not find the exercises in the link jeff gave sufficent to help
very much for my TOS which was very severe (although they are
otherwise helpful links with lots of other great info).
I described in detail what exercise program my PT gave in the
following link

http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62290

(Depending on your browser, the posts in this may show up in
reverse numerical order and the discussion will make much
  more sense if you read in in numerical order since
there is a couple overview posts in the begining )

you can get over the net a kit that has the equipment to do the
exercises and videotape to show how to do them (address in the above link)

I got alot better with this program, I was pretty housebound before I
started it.

Hope this is of help

  --- In thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com, access indo
<accesspublishing@y...> wrote:
> thanks, jeff. good stuff.
>
> Osrin Jeff <josrin@o...> wrote:Hi All ,
>
> Here are 2 excellent links on TOS . The second link has to do with
> excersizes..
>
>
>
> http://eeshop.unl.edu/rsi.html <http://eeshop.unl.edu/rsi.html>
> http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/thoracic_outlet/index.html
> <http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/thoracic_outlet/index.html>
>
> Let me know what you all think
>
> Cheers
> Jeff Osrin
> Cape Town
> SouthAfrica
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accesspublishing [mailto:accesspublishing@y...]
> Sent: 14 February 2005 5:17 AM
> To: thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Thoracic Outlet Syndrome] question about physio exercises
>
>
>
> does anyone know of a link with exercises for TOS?
>
> what exercises and /or treatment works best for you?
>
> thx
>
> chris

Hi RDAMRAN

Nothing has been attached .


-----Original Message-----
From: RDAMRAM [mailto:rdamram3663@...]
Sent: 18 February 2005 10:53 PM
To: thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Thoracic Outlet Syndrome] Fwd: Yoga Journal Daily -- Yoga Break:
Desk Yoga to Relax the Chest


TOS survivors try this daily. My p/t told me about this too. It opens the
subclavical compression area.

Note: forwarded message attached.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TOS survivors try this daily. My p/t told me about this too. It opens the
subclavical compression area.

Note: forwarded message attached.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks, jeff. good stuff.

Osrin Jeff <josrin@...> wrote:Hi All ,

Here are 2 excellent links on TOS . The second link has to do with
excersizes..



http://eeshop.unl.edu/rsi.html <http://eeshop.unl.edu/rsi.html>
http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/thoracic_outlet/index.html
<http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/thoracic_outlet/index.html>

Let me know what you all think

Cheers
Jeff Osrin
Cape Town
SouthAfrica

-----Original Message-----
From: accesspublishing [mailto:accesspublishing@...]
Sent: 14 February 2005 5:17 AM
To: thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Thoracic Outlet Syndrome] question about physio exercises



does anyone know of a link with exercises for TOS?

what exercises and /or treatment works best for you?

thx

chris





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for posting those links.  I found the anatomical diagram quite
informative.  Many of the exercises listed are ones I was taught by my physical
therapy people.  They do help me some.

Also, I get headaches too.  They last for days.  They've been described as the
TMJ type.

As far as special tools to help out with flareups, on those days I just don't do
as much.  For Christmas my husband bought me a nice stand mixer with some food
processor attachments to help with meal preparation.  It helps alot since he
hates to cook.  A few years ago we replaced our electric can opener with one
that has hands free operation.  I couldn't use the other one at all. When I was
first diagnosed, I switched to a computer keyboard that has the keyboard divided
and set at an angle.

Amy Tucker


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi All ,

Here are 2 excellent links on TOS . The second link has to do with
excersizes..



http://eeshop.unl.edu/rsi.html <http://eeshop.unl.edu/rsi.html>
http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/thoracic_outlet/index.html
<http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/thoracic_outlet/index.html>

Let me know what you all think

Cheers
Jeff Osrin
Cape Town
SouthAfrica

-----Original Message-----
From: accesspublishing [mailto:accesspublishing@...]
Sent: 14 February 2005 5:17 AM
To: thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Thoracic Outlet Syndrome] question about physio exercises



does anyone know of a link with exercises for TOS?

what exercises and /or treatment works best for you?

thx

chris





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lk.atdmt.com/NFX/go/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/&time=1108351052795335>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have numbness from left side of knee to toes sometimes. My tos is on both
sides but my left is worst. I think its related. My left neck is awfully
painful. I cant ever sleep on my left side. During my medical evaluation for the
workers comp scoring my left side was not as responsive. I have more pain their,
less circulation and less blood supply. My nerve compression is mostly  on the
left so when I get a rib resection in a few years i will ask if they can do
something under my arm pit on the right to get things going good. Ive been
working out alot lately and stretching alot. It has really helped. I have been
feeling better after. I still cant get out of bed till my baby wakes me up. Well
life with tos makes you appreciate the rest of your body so much more!

thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com wrote:

There are 4 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Other symptoms TOS
From: Amy Tucker
2. Re: Other symptoms TOS? KD
From: access indo
3. Re: Other symptoms TOS? KD
From: "kd_djonma"
4. Dizzyness?
From: "kd_djonma"


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:52:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Amy Tucker
Subject: Re: Other symptoms TOS

I too have problems with my leg and foot going numb especially when I'm having
TOS flare ups. I've mentioned it to doctors and the work comp people, but they
said it wasn't related. I did have a mountain bike accident years ago that
caused a bulging spinal disc and affected my right sciatic nerve t( a big nerve
from the spine to the foot) I don't know why, unless it's inflammation, it only
seems to flare up when the TOS does.

Amy T


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:09:08 -0500 (EST)
From: access indo
Subject: Re: Other symptoms TOS? KD

it sounds like seeing a chiropractor may help you. have you had x-rays taken ?
show them to a chiro and see what he says. some people have problems like yours
and when the chiro guy "adjusts" them the problems disappear. it sounds like
yours is a case of nerve entrapment. don't you think so?

kd_djonma wrote:
I've had joint problems all of my life, my back and legs are very bad.
I often get in my left leg (my left side is worst for TOS) feelings
like I get in my arms from the TOS.
The foot goes numb, I lose circulation, I get pins and needles and
horrible pain down the leg, it feels exactly like the pain I get in
my arm from the TOS.

But it can't be the TOS can it? Cos TOS affects the nerve and blood
vessel bundle that supply the arms. Is there a similar bundle for
supplying the legs that can be similarly affected?

Or does anyone else have a similar thing?

Nicola




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:29:16 -0000
From: "kd_djonma"
Subject: Re: Other symptoms TOS? KD


Unfortunately seeing a chiropracter isn't covered on the NHS (I'm in
the UK) and costs a fortune.

I'm not entirely sure I'm allowed to have my x-rays from the hospital
either.

Nicola


--- In thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com, access indo
wrote:
> it sounds like seeing a chiropractor may help you. have you had x-
rays taken ? show them to a chiro and see what he says. some people
have problems like yours and when the chiro guy "adjusts" them the
problems disappear. it sounds like yours is a case of nerve
entrapment. don't you think so?







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:03:59 -0000
From: "kd_djonma"
Subject: Dizzyness?


An odd one this.
I had a really bad day with my TOS yesterday, I was in agony all day
long.
I had a hot bath when I got in from work, to try and ease it up a
little, and then I started to feel really rough.
I was having a lot of dizzy spells as well.

I'm still getting some dizzy spells today, though the TOS isn't as
bad.

Is dizzyness associated with TOS at all?
Or is it something else, I might be coming down with a cold or
something?

Nicola





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was thinking today about all the things I just can't do when my TOS
is playing up badly.

I was just wondering if any of you had any kind of physical aids that
help with common jobs that need to be done.

I'd love to hear about this kind of thing!

Thanks,

Nicola

HI ,

I also suffer from headaches . It is all part of TOS . I find with a tos
headache there is no medication that helps . You just have to wait till it
passes .

Regarding maintaining sanity . A colleague of mine has just been diagnosed
with TOS . H is fortunate he has it just in the shoulder area and neck . It
has not spread down to his arms or legs . At least now I have some one to
chat to at times I need it . Last year I was reclassified at work as an
employee with a disability , so when I take breaks from typing , working at
my PC , not carrying files I have a "valid reason" . I have found at work
that making this disclosure to management has helped .

Also regarding stretching excersizes my physio has given me a schedule which
I try follow . I have been doing them now +- 5 times a week for the last 18
months . I am sure in the long run they help .

Cheers all you survivors

Jeff
Cape Town
South Africa


-----Original Message-----
From: kd_djonma [mailto:kd_djonma@...]
Sent: 16 February 2005 1:04 PM
To: thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Thoracic Outlet Syndrome] Dizzyness?



An odd one this.
I had a really bad day with my TOS yesterday, I was in agony all day
long.
I had a hot bath when I got in from work, to try and ease it up a
little, and then I started to feel really rough.
I was having a lot of dizzy spells as well.

I'm still getting some dizzy spells today, though the TOS isn't as
bad.

Is dizzyness associated with TOS at all?
Or is it something else, I might be coming down with a cold or
something?

Nicola





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

An odd one this.
I had a really bad day with my TOS yesterday, I was in agony all day
long.
I had a hot bath when I got in from work, to try and ease it up a
little, and then I started to feel really rough.
I was having a lot of dizzy spells as well.

I'm still getting some dizzy spells today, though the TOS isn't as
bad.

Is dizzyness associated with TOS at all?
Or is it something else, I might be coming down with a cold or
something?

Nicola

Unfortunately seeing a chiropracter isn't covered on the NHS (I'm in
the UK) and costs a fortune.

I'm not entirely sure I'm allowed to have my x-rays from the hospital
either.

Nicola


--- In thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com, access indo
<accesspublishing@y...> wrote:
> it sounds like seeing a chiropractor may help you. have you had x-
rays taken ? show them to a chiro and see what he says. some people
have problems like yours and when the chiro guy "adjusts" them the
problems disappear. it sounds like yours is a case of nerve
entrapment. don't you think so?

it sounds like seeing a chiropractor may help you. have you had x-rays taken ?
show them to a chiro and see what he says. some people have problems like yours
and when the chiro guy "adjusts" them the problems disappear. it sounds like
yours is a case of nerve entrapment. don't you think so?

kd_djonma <kd_djonma@...> wrote:
I've had joint problems all of my life, my back and legs are very bad.
I often get in my left leg (my left side is worst for TOS) feelings
like I get in my arms from the TOS.
The foot goes numb, I lose circulation, I get pins and needles and
horrible pain down the leg, it feels exactly like the pain I get in
my arm from the TOS.

But it can't be the TOS can it? Cos TOS affects the nerve and blood
vessel bundle that supply the arms. Is there a similar bundle for
supplying the legs that can be similarly affected?

Or does anyone else have a similar thing?

Nicola




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I too have problems with my leg and foot going numb especially when I'm having 
TOS flare ups.  I've mentioned it to doctors and the work comp people, but they
said it wasn't related. I did have a mountain bike accident years ago that
caused a bulging spinal disc and affected my right sciatic nerve t( a big nerve
from the spine to the foot)  I don't know why, unless it's inflammation, it only
seems to flare up when the TOS does.

Amy T


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've had joint problems all of my life, my back and legs are very bad.
I often get in my left leg (my left side is worst for TOS) feelings
like I get in my arms from the TOS.
The foot goes numb, I lose circulation, I get pins and needles and
horrible pain down the leg, it feels exactly like the pain I get in
my arm from the TOS.

But it can't be the TOS can it? Cos TOS affects the nerve and blood
vessel bundle that supply the arms. Is there a similar bundle for
supplying the legs that can be similarly affected?

Or does anyone else have a similar thing?

Nicola

> if you were diagnosed as a teen, it may be what is referred to as
>true neurogenic tos, that is you likely had a congenital abnormality
>dealing with the cervical rib, ie, an extra rib; anyway, if its an
>extra rib you could have surgery to remove it but its not always
>successful;

I don't think it's an extra rib, but it's definately not after an
accident.
I think (from what I can remember) that the space between the first
rib and the collar bone just aren't big enough.

>ive had tos following a car accident, going on 4 long yrs..mine is
>referred to as 'traumatic tos,'.

Yeah, I know about that kind - Ozzy had it briefly after his quad
bike crash.

>there's little treatment for it, i just do stretches, yoga, heat,
>ice, jacuzzi, sauna, massage,  have had botox injections into the
>scalene muscles in the neck area, and watch your posture at all
>times...

I do a lot of T'ai Chi, but I'm not really sure what's good and
what's bad for it.

The major problem is that I've never really been told anything about
it, just that I have it.
Today it's really bad, I'm in a lot of pain, my shoulder's barely
movable and the top of my chest is agony.
Unfortunately I'm a temp, so if I don't work, I don't get paid.
So I have to work through it.
Fortunately it's not really affecting my arm at the moment; just the
shoulder, so as long as the shoulder stays in position it should be
ok. I just have to cope with the pain.


>and considering accupunture..ive been told it may get better over
>time, or it may never go away, there's no way to tell..anyway, im a
>lawyer, not a doctor, but i deal with work injuries in my job so i
>have to be familiar with medical conditions and ive studied quite
>abit about this problem...especially since im
>  living with it..good luck, we all need it to deal with this..

I'd love to have accupuncture, but I just can't afford it.
I've been told that specialist physio will help, but one shoulder
specialist referred me to physio, and the physiotherapist I got was a
trainee who'd never heard of TOS. I know that some exercises can make
the TOS worse, so I said thanks, but no thanks.
I wasn't going to let a trainee who'd never heard of my condition
make it worse.

What do you do when you're in a lot of pain? That's the main thing I
need help with, I just don't know what to do about it!

Thanks!

Nicola

if you were diagnosed as a teen, it may be what is referred to as true
neurogenic tos, that is you likely had a congenital abnormality dealing with the
cervical rib, ie, an extra rib; anyway, if its an extra rib you could have
surgery to remove it but its not always successful; ive had tos following a car
accident, going on 4 long yrs..mine is referred to as 'traumatic tos,' its a
compression of the of the blood vessels and/or nerves in the thoracic
region..under the top  rib..there's little treatment for it, i just do
stretches, yoga, heat, ice, jacuzzi, sauna, massage,  have had botox injections
into the scalene muscles in the neck area, and watch your posture at all
times...and considering accupunture..ive been told it may get better over time,
or it may never go away, there's no way to tell..anyway, im a lawyer, not a
doctor, but i deal with work injuries in my job so i have to be familiar with
medical conditions and ive studied quite abit about this problem...especially
since im
  living with it..good luck, we all need it to deal with this..

__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This book (It's Not Carpal Tunnel):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0965510999/qid=1108397577/sr=1-1/r\
ef=sr_1_1/102-8943980-4304105?v=glance&s=books

And this one (Trigger Point Therapy Workbook):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1572243759/qid=1108397635/sr=2-1/ref=pd_k\
a_b_2_1/102-8943980-4304105

are lifesavers for me -- these plus Alexander
Technique
have help me a lot!

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I'm still working, but have managed to restructure my job
responsibiliites to minimize my typing as much as possible. My TOS
manifested after several years of user acceptance testing for
websites - lots of repetitive work. With the aid of lots of ergonomic
equipment, I struggle by. My hands and wrists are always sore, and I
have problems with constant muscle spasms, but I just try to deal
with it.

--- In thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com, Cathy
<cathyannee@y...> wrote:
> I GOT TOCS FROM REPETITIVE COMPUTER TYPING;  YOUR M.D. SHOULD
> HAVE TOLD YOU NO REPEITIVE WORK WITH YOUR HANDS; ARMS.  WHATEVER
> YOU CAN PHYSICALLY DO IS MY SUGGESTION; I HAVE OSTEO IN MY KNEES
> AND ANKLES PLUS TOCS; YOU HAVE ALOT OF CHOICES.
> --- RDAMRAM <rdamram3663@s...> wrote:
>
> > Dear Tos survivors,
> > Did you try to work? I am being told to do computerwork since
> > its the easiest thing for me for employment...but i get arm
> > and hand pain just the same. I went to work comp.,school
> > training for office managment. Actually my hands turn red and
> > swell if i type too much...what do think someone with tos
> > should do for going back to work....i need to try to do
> > something. The only othe job I had was a dental assistant.
> > Thats how i developed my injury through out the years.
> >
> > thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > There is 1 message in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> > 1. Re: Digest Number 260
> > From: RDAMRAM
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:13:33 -0800 (PST)
> > From: RDAMRAM
> > Subject: Re: Digest Number 260
> >
> > Anti-depressants are also prescribed for people with unchronic
> > depressive disabilities. Pain related anxiety is what I took
> > Paxil for. There are three catagories for depression. Pain
> > related depression is level one which is minor depression and
> > considered non permanent, level2 is
> > permanent-compulsive/intensive, therapy needed, level3 is
> > therapy needed. My mother is Bi-polar so we know these things.
> > She is suicidal and the drugs she takes have nothing to do
> > with pain managment.
> >
> > thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> > There are 3 messages in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> > 1. Re: help needed for self-diagnosis
> > From: Cathy
> > 2. Re: Re: depression
> > From: Cathy
> > 3. Re: depression
> > From: Cathy
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 11:22:48 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Cathy
> > Subject: Re: help needed for self-diagnosis
> >
> > YOU NEED TO SEE AN M.D. WHO CAN DIAGNOSE TOCS. CALL THE HAND
> > SPECIALISTS IN YOUR AREA OR SEARCH ON THE NET FOR A HAND
> > SURGEON;
> > TOCS SURGEON, WHO CAN DIAGNOSE YOU CORRECTLY. IF YOU HAD TOCS
> > YOU WOULD BE IN TOO MUCH PAIN TO WORK.
> > --- sarab1890 wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I am a computer programmer suffering from pain in the hands
> > > from
> > > April-04.
> > > Initially suspected of having Carpal Tunnel synodrome /
> > > Cervical
> > > Radiology.
> > > I am still confused on what is the exact cause for the pain
> > as
> > > i think
> > > i have been misdiagnosed.
> > >
> > > The significant point is that i rarely have pain in the
> > neck.
> > > Most of
> > > the times pain is in the hands, and sometimes accompanied by
> > > pain in
> > > the shoulders and upper back. Most often the pain is local
> > to
> > > hands
> > > (fingers, palm, near wrist or near centre of forearm only).
> > > Neck stretching does not help much.
> > >
> > > Can you please let me know how it can be diagnosed for sure
> > > what the
> > > problem really is? the EAST test has turned out positive, my
> > > hand
> > > starts getting tingling sensation in about 15-30 seconds but
> > i
> > > fear
> > > misdiagnosis. Carpal Tunnel tests (joining and bending hands
> > > with
> > > palms away from each other and fingers facing the ground)
> > does
> > > not
> > > cause tingling.
> > >
> > > Any help, or information, treatment options, exercises will
> > be
> > > greatly
> > > appreciated and i would be grateful to you for my entire
> > life.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Cathy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 11:32:45 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Cathy
> > Subject: Re: Re: depression
> >
> > YOU SHOULD NOT TAKE ANTIDEPRESSANTS UNLESS YOU ARE CHRONICALLY
> > DEPRESSED. I HAVE MULTIPLE DISABILITIES, I LIVE IN CONSTANT
> > PAIN; AND THE ONLY REASON I TAKE AN ANTIDEPRESSANT IS BECAUSE
> > I
> > HAVE A CHEMICAL IMBLANCE WHICH CREATES ANXIETY ATTACKS AND
> > CONSTANT SUIDICAL THOUGHTS IF I DO NOT TAKE IT. SOME OF YOU
> > PEOPLE ON HERE NEED TO LEARN TO LIVE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE AND
> > GET
> > OFF THE EXCESS MEDS. PT HELPS TOCS AS WELL AS SURGERY AND
> > ANTI-INFLAMMATORIES.
> > ANTIDEP ARE FOR OTHER HEALTH ISSUES.
> > --- craig_sauerwalt wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Tim,
> > >
> > > I have found some recent success with Cymbalta, which
> > > apparently was
> > > originally designed for fibromyalgia. It takes the edge of
> > the
> > > pain
> > > for me and helps with my mood, but not so much to the point
> > > where I
> > > don't care about things. I have had other meds which gave me
> > > the same
> > > effects as you described, and this has been much better.
> > Good
> > > luck!
> > >
> > > --- In thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com, tim scott
> > > wrote:
> > > > i got it from a bad car accident, and i was on paxil for
> > the
> > > first
> > > 2 yrs but i stopped it because it makes you feel numb to
> > > everything,
> > > and i might feel the pain more without it but at least i can
> > > feel
> > > things and get some pleasure out of fun things, and
> > > antidepressant
> > > also normally kill your sex drive; currently i take
> > neurontin
> > > and
> > > ultram, and at nigth a trazadone which helps with sleep and
> > > actually
> > > acts like an antidepressant but without the side
> > affects..I'm
> > > going
> > > on 4 yrs myself and also have it on both sides, and
> > > unfortunately im
> > > being told by various doctors if you've had it this long its
> > > going to
> > > stay with you for awhile, could easily be over 10 +
> > yrs...3663
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > I was wondering if poeple who have tos should take
> > > > antidepressants. I took them before because the pain made
> > me
> > >
> > > > depressed which made my pain worst and it helped. For
> > > example now
> > > > that I dont take antidepressants and suffer alot of
> > chronic
> > > pain
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> =====
> Cathy
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
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Hi!

I was diagnosed as having TOS when I was 18. The Neurologist who saw
me reckoned I'd had it all my life, it had just gotten lost amongst
my other joint problems that were being investigated.

During my childhood and teenage years it wasn't so bad really;
occasionally it would hurt and get bad, but not enough for me to
worry much.

In the last few years, though, it's gotten a lot worse. I also have
lax joints and my shoulders sub-luxate a lot, which causes tension
that sets of the TOS.

I'm now at the point where I can't brush my hair if it's wet, holding
my arms up that long hurts far too much.

I've recently changed GP, so when my notes arrive there, he's going
to send me to a Rheumatologist to be the centre point of
investigation for all of my joint problems, including getting
something done about my TOS.

One of the worst things I find about TOS is that no one knows what it
is, or understands how painful it can be.
Half the doctors I've seen haven't know what it is!
And if it sets off and my arm loses circulation, no first aider has
heard of it, so they can't do anything.

Though saying that, I don't really know much about it either, just
that I've got it, and what it does to me.
I don't really know what to do when it sets off badly and my arm goes
blue.
I tend to just leave it be and if it gets really bad (if the blueness
goes above my elbow, or if the shoulder sub-luxates) I'll go to
casualty and get them to strap it up and get the circulation going
again.

So anyway, that's me!

Nicola

does anyone know of a link with exercises for TOS?

what exercises and /or treatment works best for you?

thx

chris

If you go to the group site you can read previous discussions. At times poeple
dont email much other times its very busy. We are here still always here though,
especially Cathy. I'll get back to you when i dont have my baby in my lap.This
group is good for support. How is everyone?

thoracicoutletsyndrome@yahoogroups.com wrote:

There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. I'm new here
From: Amy Tucker


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:12:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Amy Tucker
Subject: I'm new here

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the group but certainly not to TOS. Was diagnosed over two years ago,
but I know now I've had it much longer. I've been fortunate enough to continue
working until a couple weeks ago, when a neurologist I was referred to told me
to quit working. Now I'm riding the emotional/financial roller coaster of coping
with that.

Looking forward to discussing coping strategies, etc. with you.

Amy Tucker


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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