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Man kills mother -- whose at fault?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1762 of 1997 |
RE: [ThomasSzaszDiscussion] Man kills mother -- whose at fault?

Yes, but should a person with a lesion who kills people be inv. committed or
imprisoned? Why isn't epilepsy included in standard pathology books?

Why cant brain scans dx brain diseases or "mental" ones?

D

--- On Mon, 8/18/08, Martin Kessler <titaniummdk@...> wrote:
From: Martin Kessler <titaniummdk@...>
Subject: RE: [ThomasSzaszDiscussion] Man kills mother -- whose at fault?
To: thomasszaszdiscussion@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 7:55 PM













Hi Mira, Downs syndrome and Alzheimers aren't mental illnesses ( although
psychiatrists would like to encompass them in their diagnostic nosology to give
say ADHD credibility. ) Competence is determined for individuals that have
neurological diseases like Downs or Alzheimers on a case by case basis. Like
deterining who can still drive a car. A person with Downs may be competent
suficiently to be an eye witness in a court trial or work as a cashier at a fast
food - but maybe not as a brain surgeon. Do you know any person with Downs
syndrome that graduated Medical school? On the other hand, kids that have the
label ADHD more than likely have no neurological condition at all - unless the
ritalin is doing the damage.



Martin



To: thomasszaszdiscussi on@yahoogroups. comFrom: mirah@...: Mon, 18 Aug
2008 19:22:18 +0200Subject: Re: [ThomasSzaszDiscuss ion] Man kills mother --
whose at fault?



Martin Kessler wrote:> Szasz believes in personal responsibility and holds a
person> responsible for their acts which have reasons.Yes, when the person is
competent. From the article, Bruce sounds pretty coherent, so we can assume he's
competent.But what about someone who isn't? Say someone with Down or
Alzheimer?Then my next question is going to be: how do we determine
competence?Mira



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Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:56 pm

cubyanks
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Message #1762 of 1997 |
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The WSJ today has a page one article discussing the case of a man, William Bruce, who murdered his wife. Clearly in the mind of the authors who write the...
Matt Dioguardi
mattdioguardi
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Aug 17, 2008
7:14 pm

Hi Matt, From what you have written I gather that the journalist and the advocates accepted the diagnosis of schizophrenia for William Bruce. Szasz believes...
Martin Kessler
titaniummdk
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Aug 18, 2008
4:56 pm

... Yes, when the person is competent. From the article, Bruce sounds pretty coherent, so we can assume he's competent. But what about someone who isn't? Say...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Aug 18, 2008
5:45 pm

Hi Mira, Downs syndrome and Alzheimers aren't mental illnesses ( although psychiatrists would like to encompass them in their diagnostic nosology to give say...
Martin Kessler
titaniummdk
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Aug 19, 2008
6:56 am

... Depends on how you define mental illness. Psychiatrists are the ones in whom the state vests the power to define them, and they include them. But I wasn't...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Aug 19, 2008
9:50 am

Yes, but should a person with a lesion who kills people be inv. committed or imprisoned? Why isn't epilepsy included in standard pathology books? Why cant...
D Waters
cubyanks
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Aug 19, 2008
7:17 pm

... The standard explanation is that the prison lacks the facilities and expertise to properly care for the person. The psych institution doesn't have those...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Aug 19, 2008
7:36 pm

Martin,   What if person gets hit in head and can no longer make appropriate decisions? As a result, they killpeople, etc? What should we do?   D ... From:...
D Waters
cubyanks
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Aug 18, 2008
7:41 pm

Hi Matt, Getting hit in the head is a literal lesion. And like epilepsy, once a person knows they have this literal condition, assuming they can function...
Martin Kessler
titaniummdk
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Aug 19, 2008
6:55 am

To get back to the point: I have never heard of a case of someone with a genuine neurological condition such as epilepsy going out and commiting murder or any...
johnnyadler
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Sep 17, 2008
5:31 pm

... When a person can respond consistently to questions about what is going on around him and what he wants then he is competent, when he can't do this he...
Alan Forrester
alan_forrester2
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Aug 19, 2008
6:12 pm

... Who would pose the questions and judge the answers?...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Aug 19, 2008
6:55 pm

Dear ((((((((((((((((Jonny)))))))))))))))))))), I agree with u completely. For starters i do not believe that mental illness as in ill thinking has anything to...
Elaine Phipps-earl
lizzijaneau
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Sep 17, 2008
7:50 pm

Hi Elaine Thanks for your kind words. Yes of course there are cases of justifiable homicide, self defense, or people driven to their actions by circumstances -...
johnnyadler
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Sep 18, 2008
11:06 pm

... The drugs will do this to them too. ... No, but neither is there an identifiable cause in epilepsy and other somatic afflictions. I.m.o. what disqualifies...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Sep 19, 2008
8:54 am

Hello Mira These are all very good points, except one: Of course there is such a thing as mind; without a mind we would be unable to think, feel, question,...
johnnyadler
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Sep 20, 2008
7:33 am

... Is there? Then *where* is it? Mira...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Sep 21, 2008
6:52 am
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