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Sectioning or Abduction?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1694 of 1997 |
The BBC report <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7207644.stm>
that the father of UK singer Amy Winehouse "admitted he asked for his
daughter to be sectioned under the Mental Health Act to help her stop
taking drugs ... [but] had been told she could not be sectioned because
she was not at risk of hurting herself." Mitch Winehouse is quoted as
saying "You might consider taking drugs is a danger to herself, but
unfortunately the authorities don't."

But Mr Winehouse then suggests that "unless she wants to do it of her
own accord, it's pointless... You can't lock the key and say, 'you can't
come out before you're better'. That's called abduction."

The BBC link to the story under the headline "Dad wants Winehouse
sectioned," yet both he and the BBC (not to mention the public at large)
seem oblivious to the contradictory nature of this situation. If only
psychiatrists were honest enough to admit that their profession is
scientifically fraudulent, then the political debate could begin.
Needless to say, suggesting that people ought to be detained and drugged
when there is nothing medically wrong with them is a more difficult task
than they would like to attempt. Sadly, I am not sure such arguments
would necessarily fail to win over the public, but it would be a start.
I hear that Dr Szasz has a book entitled "Psychiatry: the science of
lies" on the way, and so I eagerly await publication.

I well remember some critics of the (Szaszian) position I was discussing
responding along the lines of "but it's actually quite difficult for a
psychiatrist to detain a drug addict." Maybe so, but relative to what?
In any case, the Winehouse story is noteworthy not because it involves a
well-known singer, but because it captures perfectly the weak-willed
thinking that stretches across our entire society when it comes to the
issue of mental health and mental illness.

To be fair to Mitch, might it be the case that he once believed in the
morality of state psychiatry, but has since changed his mind (with the
BBC twisting his words in the hunt for a story, for example)? In which
case, is Mitch Winehouse a hero to the cause of
liberty-and-responsibility vis-a-vis psychiaty?(!!) If only...

Ted.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:59 pm

theduketed
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Message #1694 of 1997 |
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The BBC report <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7207644.stm> that the father of UK singer Amy Winehouse "admitted he asked for his daughter to be...
theduketed
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Jan 24, 2008
11:54 pm

The Amy Winehouse situation with her family and recovery treatment got me to thinking... I certainly support the Szasz position on not incarcerating people...
acquista
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Jan 25, 2008
1:17 am

Randy, The problem I see with what you are suggesting is that no "treatment" for bad behavior exists. What happens to people who voluntarily (as well as...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Jan 25, 2008
10:35 am

mira, can you give referance to that quote?"I think it was Dr. Szasz who once likened that to changing seats on the Titanic"Hagai To:...
Hagai Aviel
hagaiaviel
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Jan 25, 2008
12:00 pm

... No, sorry. I saw it somewhere and it seemed like something he would say, but I'm not sure about that. He is quoted so often that it is sometimes difficult...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Jan 25, 2008
4:09 pm

Mira, I am not sure how you got the ideas of replacing drugs they want with those they dont want, since I never advocated drugs for anyone. Szasz's quip is...
acquista
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Jan 25, 2008
12:01 pm

Randy, I don't see how your assertion that discussion of the law leaves "no room for human caring" follows from the position stated by Mira, Dr Szasz, or...
theduketed
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Jan 25, 2008
2:08 pm

... Have you ever been in one of those treatment programs? ... If you ascribe either of those to me, you are doing me a grave injustice. But tell me, how are...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Jan 25, 2008
4:09 pm

I would ask, What makes you think emotional involement is unprofessional? To begin with, Szasz himself is a professional as are many that support his ideas....
acquista
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Jan 26, 2008
4:00 pm

... The professional by definition does not become emotionally involved. Of course in reality some professionals do become emotionally involved. However, this...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Jan 26, 2008
6:37 pm

Would be anybody be able to answer this question: I am against involuntary commitment, but isn't it true that it is hard to get clients out of a hospital once...
D Waters
cubyanks
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Jan 29, 2008
11:43 pm

... I don't know what it's like in the US. From what I've heard if you try to leave, you're threatened with a court order. Here (NL) that is illegal. It...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Jan 30, 2008
1:03 pm

... I think the key to this is the word "voluntary". It's clear the state can be used to coerce people to do "good" things for themselves. The state can coerce...
Matt Dioguardi
mattdioguardi
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Jan 26, 2008
4:01 pm

... I agree with you here, Matt. A contract signing away your freedom (and thus also your responsibility) cannot be valid. Here in the Netherlands the law...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Jan 26, 2008
6:37 pm

This is my first post at this group and I am not nearly as conversant with Thomas Szasz's writings as are most (it appears) of the posters here. In fact I am...
Kitty Antonik Wakfer
kittyaw
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Feb 3, 2008
5:12 pm

Hello Kitty, I hope I'm not encroaching on our list owner's territory by welcoming you to this list. Being a great fan of Dr. Szasz, I'm a frequent poster, ...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Feb 3, 2008
9:18 pm

... poster, ... Hello Mira, Thank you for the welcome. Agreed that one can only speak for one's self, except when given specific permission by another to speak...
Kitty Antonik Wakfer
kittyaw
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Feb 8, 2008
11:48 am

... I confess to exaggeration. Of course some people do manage to shake off the psychiatric status. However I contend that this is fairly rare, and that the...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Feb 10, 2008
11:57 am

... escape it. Exaggeration on this and other serious subjects does not benefit the writer/speakers presentation of hir reasoning. If it is a fact that large...
Kitty Antonik Wakfer
kittyaw
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Feb 12, 2008
9:13 am

... snip ... Kitty, I was not addressing you specifically, just reminding everybody, because privacy is to me an important issue. ... When one signs himself...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Feb 12, 2008
12:02 pm

Hi Kitty, Insanity The Idea and Its Consequences is as good a book as you could pick - maybe even better than The Myth of Mental Illness. In "Insanity",...
Martin Kessler
titaniummdk
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Feb 3, 2008
11:29 pm

What would Dr. Szasz and other Libertarians say that we should do about individuals who drive drunk and, consequently, kill people? D Martin Kessler...
D Waters
cubyanks
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Feb 8, 2008
6:14 pm

... Different libertarians would say different things. Clearly getting behind the wheel of a car while drunk and killing somebody as a result is negligent at...
Alan Forrester
alan_forrester2
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Feb 9, 2008
2:41 pm

Charge them with manslaughter, of course. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]...
Justin
stoddajm
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Feb 9, 2008
2:41 pm

... Also when there *is* something medically wrong with them. In any case the term "medically wrong" does not represent a fact. It is a value judgment, even in...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Jan 25, 2008
10:35 am

... individuals who drive drunk and, >consequently, kill people? Sure sounds like manslaughter to me. Driving sober and hitting and killing someone also...
Patforpres@...
meat_eater64
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Feb 9, 2008
2:41 pm

People who drive drunk chose to do so and should be held responsible for their behavior. If it weren't for Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) and their...
Martin Kessler
titaniummdk
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Feb 10, 2008
11:57 am

... Like so may bases of discussion, this one hinges on definitions. Is someone who does *not* support the idea of holding people responsible for their...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Feb 10, 2008
6:12 pm

Hi Mira, I don't know about how drunkedness is handled in Holland. But in the US people who are alcoholic are "mentally ill" - ie they have a disability -...
Martin Kessler
titaniummdk
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Feb 11, 2008
8:47 am
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