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Children and Mentally Ill People   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1675 of 1997 |
Re: [ThomasSzaszDiscussion] Children and Mentally Ill People

Alan Forrester wrote:

> Does it mean that Szasz thinks that it is legitimate for parents to
> coerce their children?

I don't speak for Dr. Szasz, but i.m.o. of course it is legitimate to
coerce children. Parents make and enforce rules for their children like
going to school in the morning, hand washing before eating,
toothbrushing after, no candy before dinner, home before dark, bedtime
at eight o'clock, etc. Not to do so would be neglect. Wise parents
gradually transfer responsibility to their children as they grow older.
However, legally and socially people up to age 18 remain the
responsibility of their parents, and so controled by them.

> why would it be legitimate to coerce children but not adults who lack
> knowledge of the real world for reasons other than being young?

Szasz assumes that people who are labeled "mentally ill" or
"schizophrenic" or whatever variant thereof have not been ruled
incompetent by a judge, so they must be considered competent.

Incompetent adults are rightfully protected and coerced like children,
though of course not by psychiatrists but by their legal guardians. In
my country, the Netherlands, the law prohibits a helping professional
from being appointed the guardian of his "client". As usual, involuntary
commitment trumps guardianship, which proves that it is a power struggle
that has nothing to do with competence.

How we judge (in)competence and what we do with incompetent adults are
subjects that deserve a great deal more debate. I would welcome such
discussion on this list.

Mira




Sun Dec 9, 2007 9:55 am

miradevries
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Forward
Message #1675 of 1997 |
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Psychiatrists say that mentally ill people should be coerced because they may harm themselves or others. http://www.fff.org/freedom/0490c.asp "The demand for,...
Alan Forrester
alan_forrester2
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Dec 9, 2007
1:12 am

... I don't speak for Dr. Szasz, but i.m.o. of course it is legitimate to coerce children. Parents make and enforce rules for their children like going to...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Dec 9, 2007
12:26 pm

... Many parents do make and enforce rules for their children. You haven't explained why forcing children to do things against their will is helping them nor...
Alan Forrester
alan_forrester2
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Dec 10, 2007
7:49 pm

It is a good point to raise, and it does not go away to say before 18 parents are in charge and can coerce but after 18 the adult has complete control. There...
acquista
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Dec 10, 2007
9:58 pm

... The state -- never! But other than that I agree with all you say, Randy. And you too, Ron. ... I have a quarrel with compulsory education laws too, but...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Dec 11, 2007
12:13 am

... I gave the example of restraining a toddler who is about to run into the street. ... Your question was about competence, whereas your examples are not. ...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Dec 10, 2007
10:00 pm

... Just as you would restrain an adult who is about to run into the street. Doesn't explain the difference between the way you think adults should eb treated...
Alan Forrester
alan_forrester2
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Dec 12, 2007
12:10 am

In a message dated 12/9/2007 7:26:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mirah@... writes: Incompetent adults are rightfully protected and coerced like children, ...
Patforpres@...
meat_eater64
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Dec 10, 2007
7:31 am

... This can happen whether or not the person is (in)competent. As long as involuntary commitment is with us, nobody is safe. ... I trust neither, but again,...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Dec 10, 2007
7:47 pm

In a message dated 12/10/2007 5:01:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mirah@... writes: All right. Maybe that is a valid definition of competence. What do the ...
ronleifer@...
ronleifer
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Dec 10, 2007
11:20 pm

Hi! Dr. Leifer, I have one question if you do not mind. Dr. Pies makes an argument that diseases should be based on one's "functioning" and that organic...
D Waters
cubyanks
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Dec 17, 2007
10:56 pm

... Let's rephrase. "The solution cannot be leaving him in the same state as 99% of the world's historical population." Maybe. The solution also cannot be...
Patforpres@...
meat_eater64
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Dec 10, 2007
11:20 pm

In a message dated 12/10/2007 7:14:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mirah@... writes: I have a quarrel with compulsory education laws too, but that is not ...
Patforpres@...
meat_eater64
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Dec 11, 2007
1:44 am

... Oh dear, I'm sorry. What is it? Mira...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Dec 11, 2007
9:53 am

In a message dated 12/11/2007 4:54:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mirah@... writes: Oh dear, I'm sorry. What is it? Joshua. ...
Patforpres@...
meat_eater64
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Dec 12, 2007
9:36 am

Thurs. 07/12/13 12:51 post #13 previous post = http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/thomasszaszdiscussion/message/1642?threaded=1 ... So, abolish the practice...
mmma_rk
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Dec 17, 2007
10:57 pm

... Nothing wrong with radicalism, but perhaps we should define incompetence. How about: A state or condition of being incapable of surviving without constant ...
mirah@...
miradevries
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Dec 18, 2007
7:49 am

In a message dated 12/17/2007 5:57:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... So, abolish the practice of coercion of "incompetents"So, abolish legal category of...
Patforpres@...
meat_eater64
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Dec 18, 2007
7:49 am

In a message dated 12/18/2007 2:50:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mirah@... writes: Nothing wrong with radicalism, but perhaps we should define ...
Patforpres@...
meat_eater64
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Dec 18, 2007
9:54 pm
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