Evgenij,

Would it be possible for you to upload a demonstration of the methos
onto the Youtube website ?

Cheers

terry

Terry,
my understanding of the main idea is this - get maximal amount
of work (excersize) from the muscles of the breathing apparatus
those invogorating them, without causing too much of CO2 removal.

Because air resistance is proportional to flow rate, at short
strong sniff you "pay" with maximal amount of work for the same
amount of inhaled air. So you get maximal amount of work-out
for minimal amount of air and CO2 loss.

Regards,
Evgenij

--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000"
<terry.pearson@...> wrote:
>
> Why a 'strong' sniff during the exercises ? - would a more relaxed
> sniff during the exercises be a better way of reducing the minute
> volume of air during inhalation ?
>
> Cheers
>
> Terry
>

Why a 'strong' sniff during the exercises ? - would a more relaxed
sniff during the exercises be a better way of reducing the minute
volume of air during inhalation ?

Cheers

Terry

Terry,
do you mean mpeg2? mp3 is an audio format...

I could also encode in mpeg4, it is a bit more compact.
But it is still a huge file, if you talk about TV
resolution (640x480). I did some experimenting with
recording the excercies, and I already have raw
material for editing. But size is creazy - somewhere around
1 GB. I will never find a free web-site hosting that would
accept files like that. It looks like sending it as a DVD
is the only option at the moment.

Regards,
Yevgen

--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000"
<terry.pearson@...> wrote:
>
> Evgenij,
>
> What about recording a lesson on MP3 & uploading the file.The mp3
> file could include a short description of each exercise & then a
> complete sequence in real-time ;this in combination with the
> illustrations found on your website could be an excellent
> introduction to Strelnikova.
>
> Cheers
>
> Terry
> --- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "Evgenij Barsukov"
> <evgenij_b@> wrote:
> >
> > Terry,
> > no I have never seen one. I was thinking on recording one
> > such thing with my daughter. I am not sure how do distribute
> > it however. I do not have a server capacity to put a
> > 640 MB jpg4 file online, I would have to send DVDs, or
> > in somewhat worse quality, CDs, by mail.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Evgenij
> >
> > --- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000"
> > <terry.pearson@c...> wrote:
> > > Are there any real time video images of a Strelnikova session
> > > available anywhere, either to download or to purchase on cd\dvd ?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Terry
> >
>

Evgenij,

What about recording a lesson on MP3 & uploading the file.The mp3
file could include a short description of each exercise & then a
complete sequence in real-time ;this in combination with the
illustrations found on your website could be an excellent
introduction to Strelnikova.

Cheers

Terry
--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "Evgenij Barsukov"
<evgenij_b@...> wrote:
>
> Terry,
> no I have never seen one. I was thinking on recording one
> such thing with my daughter. I am not sure how do distribute
> it however. I do not have a server capacity to put a
> 640 MB jpg4 file online, I would have to send DVDs, or
> in somewhat worse quality, CDs, by mail.
>
> Regards,
> Evgenij
>
> --- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000"
> <terry.pearson@c...> wrote:
> > Are there any real time video images of a Strelnikova session
> > available anywhere, either to download or to purchase on cd\dvd ?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Terry
>

Terry,
the number I gave you was measured at the first excercise,
"palms" which is indeed the fastest one. If we take average
number over the entire exercise, the number comes down
somewhat. Considering that we typicaly do 80 snifs / exercise,
and there is 12 exercises, so 960 sniffs total, and the whole
typicaly takes 20 minutes (well, there is also some talking involved
that is hard to quantize) it gives about 48 sniffs/minute average.

I agree that having expensive devices is not always a must.
After all the question is not "how do I measure" but "how do I
achieve". Strelnikova excercies helps with achieving, although
I would not mind to play with the device in question if I had extra
money.

Regards,
Evgenij

--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000"
<terry.pearson@c...> wrote:
> --- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "Evgenij Barsukov"
> Evgenij,
>
> If you ever get round to making a demo let me know as I would be
> interested in having a copy - obviously I would reimburse you the
> cost of materials & post etc.
>
> 64 - 96 sniffs per minute sounds such a lot.
>
> Slightly off topic - this device was being promoted at the
> latest Buteyko conference :
>
>
> http://www.bp.edu/Instrument%20brochure%20Appl.htm
>
> Strelnikova exercises seem to be a much cheaper option.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <evgenij_b@y...> wrote:
> > Terry,
> > no I have never seen one. I was thinking on recording one
> > such thing with my daughter. I am not sure how do distribute
> > it however. I do not have a server capacity to put a
> > 640 MB jpg4 file online, I would have to send DVDs, or
> > in somewhat worse quality, CDs, by mail.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Evgenij
> >
> > --- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000"
> > <terry.pearson@c...> wrote:
> > > Are there any real time video images of a Strelnikova session
> > > available anywhere, either to download or to purchase on
cd\dvd ?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Terry

--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "Evgenij Barsukov"
Evgenij,

If you ever get round to making a demo let me know as I would be
interested in having a copy - obviously I would reimburse you the
cost of materials & post etc.

64 - 96 sniffs per minute sounds such a lot.

Slightly off topic - this device was being promoted at the
latest Buteyko conference :


http://www.bp.edu/Instrument%20brochure%20Appl.htm

Strelnikova exercises seem to be a much cheaper option.






<evgenij_b@y...> wrote:
> Terry,
> no I have never seen one. I was thinking on recording one
> such thing with my daughter. I am not sure how do distribute
> it however. I do not have a server capacity to put a
> 640 MB jpg4 file online, I would have to send DVDs, or
> in somewhat worse quality, CDs, by mail.
>
> Regards,
> Evgenij
>
> --- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000"
> <terry.pearson@c...> wrote:
> > Are there any real time video images of a Strelnikova session
> > available anywhere, either to download or to purchase on cd\dvd ?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Terry

Terry,
no I have never seen one. I was thinking on recording one
such thing with my daughter. I am not sure how do distribute
it however. I do not have a server capacity to put a
640 MB jpg4 file online, I would have to send DVDs, or
in somewhat worse quality, CDs, by mail.

Regards,
Evgenij

--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000"
<terry.pearson@c...> wrote:
> Are there any real time video images of a Strelnikova session
> available anywhere, either to download or to purchase on cd\dvd ?
>
> Cheers
>
> Terry

Are there any real time video images of a Strelnikova session
available anywhere, either to download or to purchase on cd\dvd ?

Cheers

Terry

See article below :















  Breathing Exercises For
Everyone

  New Zealand Fitness
Magazine



  We breathe in, breathe out, breathe in and breathe out, all day
long. We don't notice our
  breathing when we're healthy, mainly because we're not conscious of
it, writes DR IGOR BORISOV.
  It's
automatic.



  Centuries ago people such as the Greek athletes and Indian Yogi
learned to control their
  breathing with special breathing exercises in order to attain
certain results.


  Today, breathing specialists use both old and new methods to teach
people to control their
  breathing. Controlled breathing at present is practised by
gymnasts, swimmers, weight-lifters
  and track-and-field athletes, to significantly improve their sports
performance. Asthmatics and
  others with health problems also resort to breathing gymnastics to
considerably alleviate their
  condition and improve their
health.


  Controlled breathing is very important for the 600,000 New
Zealanders who are suffering from
  asthma and who are spending millions and millions of dollars for
treatment and prevention of
  this dangerous
disease.



  This is not economic if one takes into account that different
breathing systems can be used to
  control and reduce the frequency of asthma symptoms. It saves time
and money on the treatment
  of asthma, and improves the physical condition of many
people.


  As an example such effects can be achieved by using a well-
established system, which is also
  known by the name of its practitioner, educational specialist
Alexandra Strelnikov. It is this
  system of simple breathing exercises for both sick and healthy
people that I want to tell
  readers
about.



  I will try to explain the essence of it using the following
example:


  Imagine you are pumping a car tyre. Your legs are straight, your
hands are down, and you make a
  deep bend. You breathe out as you go down, and you breathe in as
you come up. It comes
  naturally. You do not control your breathing. You do not try to do
it the other way round. This
  is an alternative breathing technique, which was developed and
tested by Mrs Strelnikov.


  It was initially used to treat professional singers for the loss of
voice. Mrs Strelnikova
  recommends breathing in through the nose when the chest is
squeezed, and breathing out through
  the mouth when the chest expands. This is a paradox - not what one
would expect - and that is
  why her new system of breathing exercises in combination with a set
of simple physical
  exercises is called paradoxical breathing gymnastics (PBG). This
new breathing system received
  a patent and became very popular both professionally and non-
professionally in a number of
  countries
overseas.



  PBG increases the amount of oxygen in circulating blood. At the
same time superficial
  breathing, when performing paradoxical gymnastics exercises, helps
to maintain the required
  amount of carbon dioxide in the blood. This is very important as
carbon dioxide expands the
  blood vessels and our body receives more oxygen and different
nutritious components with it.


  PBG can be done while standing, sitting or lying. Children and
adults alike can enjoy breathing
  gymnastics. It does not call for special conditions or equipment.
The exercises can be
  practised indoors and outdoors, at home or at work, any time of
day.


  This turns them into a simple and effective means of arresting
asthmatic attacks as well as
  preventing them when used on a regular basis. In medical records
there are examples of asthma
  effectively responding to the treatment by paradoxical breathing
after a set of exercises
  practised on nine successive days, but other patients required more
time, about 45 days, during
  which their asthmatic symptoms gradually reduced and ultimately
stopped altogether.


  Researchers write that both long-term and short-term patients
respond equally well to
  paradoxical gymnastics. Their sleep grows sounder, their constant
fears as well as asthmatic
  attacks causing them, gradually
vanish.


  Usually PBG includes 12 different breathing and physical exercises.
However the core exercise
  of PBG is the
following:



     Feet shoulder width
apart.



     Hold your body
straight.



     Bend your arms at the
elbows.



     The most common ones are moving from position one to either two
or three.


     In position one, cross your arms over your chest so that your
hands reach your shoulder
     blades (position two)
or



     In position three, you cross your arms over your chest and lean
back. In both positions your
     chest is squeezed when breathing
in.


     The sequence of actions is as follows: take a short and
energetic breath in (position two or

three).



     Then when you extend your arms it makes you automatically breath
out.


     When you do this exercise you have to concentrate specifically
on breathing in. It is
     important that your breath in is not deep. It is followed by a
short natural breath out. On
     the whole it is a very easy
exercise.


     Do seven sets of 64 breaths both in and out or four to five sets
of 96 breaths in and out.


     The frequency varies from 64 to 96 repetitions per minute
depending on your personal

condition.



     After every set there should be a little break of about four to
five seconds.


     PBG also helps in alleviatory symptoms or in some cases
arresting bronchitis, tracheitis,
     chronic colds, pneumonia, arthritis, stammering or loss of
voice. It calms down the nerves,
     normalises blood pressure and reduces
fever.


     Paradoxical breathing can help both sick and healthy people. A
generally fit person can give
     it a go when waking up with a dull or heavy head or when
starting a physical training

session.



     Thanks to breathing exercises in combination with a set of
physical exercises all athletes
     can develop breathing muscles, increase lung ventilation and
blood composition. Apart from
     that, PBG decreases warm-up time, improves efficiency and
rehabilitation after physical

training.



     As a rule, it is sufficient to exercise for about five to six
minutes before and after
     training or competitions to obtain the desired effect. Asthmatic
patients need to exercise

more.



     PBG is not a panacea, but it is one of the most effective and
simple methods of combating
     respiratory disorders, as well as improving resistance to life-
threatening diseases. It does
     not require extra expenses; it is simple and easy to adjust to
any person's needs. Once
     mastered it can be easily done by anyone without any
aid.


     For further information, contact:
igor.borisov@...










Cheers

Terry

Terry,
Stelnikova recomended to follow the pace of marching soldier,
this corresponds to about 96 repetitions. 64 sounds somewhat
too slow, it is probably more applicable to a person having
breathing difficulties in the moment of doing exercise.

We are doing it even somewhat faster, I timed about 104 repetitions
at a normal pace. Basicaly it should be a light physical excercies
that warms you up somewhat.
But rate depends on the particular excercise. Some are
faster than others. For examle the first one, "palms" can be
done very fast, because it does not involve a lot of physical
action. But more hard once, like "knee ups" (ex 11) which constitute
substantial physical activity can not be done very fast without
losing the sniffing rithm.
    Loud snifing without audible breathing out is the key,
and you you feel that it is too fast for you and you are starting
grasping for air, slow down.
    I think comfortable rate also depends on physical form. Excercies
should not overstress you and get you out of comfortable
breathing pattern.

Btw where could I see the Igor Borisov's article? Is it
in english?

Regards,
Evgenj

--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000"
<terry.pearson@c...> wrote:
> Have just read the article by Igor Borisov on Strelnikova exercises ;
> in this piece he suggests repetitions in the range 64 - 96 per minute -
>  are these the type of numbers recommended by Strelnikova ?
>
> Cheers
>
> Terry

Have just read the article by Igor Borisov on Strelnikova exercises ;
in this piece he suggests repetitions in the range 64 - 96 per minute -
  are these the type of numbers recommended by Strelnikova ?

Cheers

Terry

Just a note to celebrate - my daughter did not have any
attackes and used no asthma medications for a year! I attribute
it to Strelnikova excercise we are doing every day, but I am
very glad no matter what the reason is!

Anybody has some new questions about learning/practicing the
exercise?
Any questions to the materials on the web-site?

Regards,
Evgenij

Welcome to the group!
What is your specific condition / interst in Strelnikova
exercise?

Regards,
Evgenij

In several news groups related to asthma you can see discussions
of how getting a cold creates a set-back for some popular
(unconventional) asthma treatments, specificaly that by long term
antibiotics like cytromax.
    Indeed, if treatment is succsesful by getting rid of chronic
inflamation caused by bacteria, after ending the treatment there
is always a risk of getting a new "pupulation" of the same bacteria.
Also having just a different re-infection (even if it is temporary,
but it is not obvious at the moment!) can have a similar feeling
and effect on asthma attacks as previous chronic infection.

I was afraid to see similar effect on the only Strelnikova-treated
patient I have (my daugher, not almost 5) once she will actualy get a
cold. As I reported earlier, Strelnikova exercise (going almost a year
now) stoped her chronic cough and sinus infections and eliminated
asthma attacks she ocasionaly had (that could be qualified as mild
asthma, but warraned a 6 month steroid treatment in opinion of her
doctor). During the summer and automn she had no colds at all
(compared to almost interminent colds previous year). But I was
well avare that good as exercise is of reducing colds (by increasing
metabolism? by promoting nasal breathing habit?) it is not allmighty
and a virus will eventualy get its way.
    Finaly she actualy got a cold, probably viral (going to day care
every day exposes to lots of virus and bacteria samples). She got
a cough and running nose for about 1.5 weeks. However, I was relieved
to see that it did not cause asthma attacks! After the cold, she
continued going to day-care and has doged the bullet during a couple
of more virus outbreakes going on there.
     Why no attack despite the cold that was her usual trigger? Well,
regardless of explanations, first of all I am just happy. But to
speculat a bit, it might be that increased lung volume, size of
larger bronchs (that was actualy showed by some other clinical
testing of Strelnikova exercise) and overal health and strenght of
respiratory system could make more air-flow and oxigen intake
capabilities, in in the case where inflamation during cold restricts
the bronchs, there is still enough troughput not to cause discomfort
and so not to trigger a cycle of attack.

Moral of this: in my restricted test case, Strelnikova exercise
not only appear to mimic antibiotics in their ability to get
rid of chronic infection, but also able to sustain its effect
in case of some transient colds. It might be that in more severe
(adult) cases antibiotic treatment is still needed to get rid of
some deep-rooted chronic bacterial infection, but accompaining
antibiotics treatment with Strelnikova exercise can help achieve
_sustained_ recovery.

Regards,
Evgenij

To help learning the exercise,
I added images of each one to the self learning guide
at http://sudy_zhenja.tripod.com/strelnikova_exercises.htm
(found them helpfuly posted in http://saga.km.ru/str/)

I still plan to add photo-images as well.

Regards,
Yevgen

Here are a few hints from my 6 month experience of
doing exercise with 4 year old daughter:

1)   What I found helpful is to do exercise together with
daughter, than it becomes an "family activity" rather
then an unpleasant chore.

2)   Sometimes we do it with music, as it is more fun, but
music should not be loud so you can still hear the "sniffs".
Loud short sniff is the key to this exercise and should
be enforced.

3)    We found that advertisement breaks in TV programs is
a good time to do exercise as you have all the family
available. Time is anyway wasted. So we turn off the
sound and start doing exercise. Typically we
can get trough 2 exercises / break.

4) I found it is useful to count every 8 sniffs with
something audible. It gives the kid an idea that exercise is not
infinite and we are making progress. While you can not use your mouth for
counting all the time (as you have to do sniffs) I make
a loud snap with fingers every 8 sniffs, than after 8x4 (that
is a "set") a loud clap  and after 3 sets a 2-claps which means
particular exercise is finished.
    Sometimes we do only 2 sets of each exercise but in severe case 3
is better.

5) To prevent daughter from getting bored we sometimes do some
different "bonus" action before each exercise, like cartwheels,
or a "new" exercise made up by daughter (also with sniffs, but
with some funny new movements).

6) Clearly explain to the kid that this exercise will help
him to get rid of that cough and attacks. Once it starts helping,
build on it and remind that it is important to keep doing it
to prevent coming back of the trouble.

7) Remind of other advantages of doing exercise, like getting
stronger, catching cold less then other kids etc.

Regards,
Yevgen

We started doing the exercise with my 4 years old daughter in April,
and now it is October. 6 month - No attacks! I am not even sure
anymore where the nebulizer is. Recently we went for a check-up to a
new doctor (we changed from the one that prescribed 6 month
steroid treatment). After checking the chest and x-rays the
direct words were "cristall clear".
   So six month passed (without steroids!) and we are "clear"! I am
getting more convinced that it works, that Strelnikove exercise can
actually cure chronic infecting induced asthma just as long-term
antibiotics do (but without danger of antibiotics and with bonus of
being an actual physical activity). To comemorate this
occasion I am planing to update self-learning web-site with
pictures illustrating each exercise. I found a way how
to digitalize stuff from my video-camera and collecting
the material. Stay tuned!

Of cause, winter is coming, so we are not getting complacent and
not taking any chances - doing the exercise every day. So far
none of us caught cold, which is by itself remarcable as even
I got cold 4 times during september-november period of last
year. It looks like exercise indeed increases your resistance
to respiratory infections, just like Shetinin was saying.
I believe the reason is in invogorating everything that has
to do with respiratory apparatus, as exhibited by continious warm
feeling in the chest. Of cause, developing habit of nasal breathing
helps as well.

Regards,
Evgenij

Terry,
good that you see impovements.
As for bad mood experice, this is quite interesting,
while not expected. How many times a day to you
make the set of exercises? When does the bad mood
appear - immediately after the exercise, or it perists?

Unfortunately there is no other mailing lists or boards where we could
grab onto other peoples experiences, only the formal clinical
tests results. We are creating such a
list just as we type :-) I will try to find some russian
resources on this however. Shetinin reported that patients
are stimulated by exercise, e.g. feel extra active, it removes
drowsiness.

I can relay to what I and my daughter experienced. Exercise
always acts on me and her similar to strong tea. It wakes
me up (we do it mostly in the evening) and makes me feel
like it is morning. Feeling stays for about half and hour
and then I become sleepy again, as I should be.
Could it be that extra stimulation makes you irritable as
such - what effect does tea or coffe for example have to you?
    Maybe changing the enviroment where you do exercise would help
- like doing it on the fresh air and with pleasent view (like
in the backyard or balkony) would channel the released
energy in more positive direction.

As for cough, sorry to hear that. I am sure exercise
can not completely eliminate infections, while I believe it
decreases their probability and severity. I am quite sensitive to
colds, but since 4 month I am doing exercise I got soar throat once
and it was very light, only took 1 day with fever to clear up. I
continued doing the exercises, and did it twice a day when I was sick.
Typicaly for me it takes a week to recover from cold, so this
one was clearly very light. My daugher still did not get sick even
once during 4 month, and this is remarkable considering that she had
persistent sinus infection and cough when we started, and is going to
kindergarden which is a great breading ground for infections.

Regards,
Evgenij

--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000"
<terry.pearson@c...> wrote:
> Evgenij,
>
> Nice to see some positive comments on the board.
>
> Did you find that the exercises made you very irritable ? Though
> I have seen some improvements since beginning the exercises I seem
> to be constantly in a bad mood and to have developed a slight cough.
> Are there any documented case histories available anywhere so I can
> check if these are
> 'clearing reactions'or if it is something else ?
>
> Cheers
>
> Terry

Evgenij,

Nice to see some positive comments on the board.

Did you find that the exercises made you very irritable ? Though
I have seen some improvements since beginning the exercises I seem
to be constantly in a bad mood and to have developed a slight cough.
Are there any documented case histories available anywhere so I can
check if these are
'clearing reactions'or if it is something else ?

Cheers

Terry

--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "townsendfamily3"
<townsendfamily3@y...> wrote:
> I just wanted to offer encouragement to keep trying different "safe"
> products to alleviate or eliminate asthma symptoms. I didn't stop
> trying things I researched and even though it is expensive

In my experience best things in life are always free.
This applies also to treatment of health problems. Just look
at recent findings of american hearth, diabetis and cancer association
- your risk of dying of any of this 3 diseases is reduced by 2/3
if you do mild exercise (10 000 step a day or half-hour fast walking),
and reduce your weight to normal (defined using quite a liberal
criteria actualy). Both this things are _FREE_ and results that they
produce (2/3 reduction of risk) _CAN NOT BE ACHIEVED_ by any of
existing medications or other treatments, no matter how expensive
they are!
Considering this, I encourage you not to look for exensive magic
solutions, but take your life into your own hands by nurturing
your body as a garden, giving it what body is designed to do -
physical activity, limited but sufficient nutrition and sufficient
rest. And this _will_ help will wide range of illnesses, guarantied,
based on statistic research (cited above) and simple common sense.

Now, if asthma is preventing you from doing some of this,
for example from doing exercise, special breathing
techniques come to the rescue which by themself are exercises
(but do not cause and actually prevent asthma attacks)
and have specific beneficial effect on respiratory system.

At the other hand, all ultra-expensive magic cures typicaly
are not based on any scienitic evidence (otherwise they would
become part of official medicine, which is very eager to
accept money-generating products), make you dependent
practicaly and psichicaly on other people, drain your money and
can do more harm then good if we assume that if something is
made of natural plants is automatically harmless. Remember that
the most potent poisons are all of natural origin. Humans did
not manage yet to create substances as harmful as some plants
and other creatures produce.

Regards,
Evgenij



I am so
> much happier with his freedom to be active outside and not having to
> know where his inhaler is all the time. I am so happy his symptoms
> are gone. Don't give up. Keep trying. Those that seek will find.
>
> I started a yahoo group that has the research links I was given. So
> anyone can look at the research themselves or ask questions in peace
> without having to be sold something they might not want. The yahoo
> group is :
>
> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturaltherapyforasthmaandallergi
> es/
>
> I am happy to answer questions on my husbands progress or any of the
> research I have found.
>
> Good luck with whatever therapies you are using,
> Charlee

I just wanted to offer encouragement to keep trying different "safe"
products to alleviate or eliminate asthma symptoms. I didn't stop
trying things I researched and even though it is expensive I am so
much happier with his freedom to be active outside and not having to
know where his inhaler is all the time. I am so happy his symptoms
are gone. Don't give up. Keep trying. Those that seek will find.

I started a yahoo group that has the research links I was given. So
anyone can look at the research themselves or ask questions in peace
without having to be sold something they might not want. The yahoo
group is :

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturaltherapyforasthmaandallergi
es/

I am happy to answer questions on my husbands progress or any of the
research I have found.

Good luck with whatever therapies you are using,
Charlee

I suspect that low CP after the exercise can indicate two
different things
1) low O2
or
2) high CO2
The desire to take a breath is connected both with high CO2 and low O2
concentrations, and as such it is hard to use it as indicator
for only one of them.

    Exact measurements of CO2 is needed to give the answer which
particular activity increases or decreases it, and that was exactly
what Buteyko was doing in his lab by measuring CO2 in breath-out
air and in blood. Shetinin made such measurements in clinical settings
and his tests indicated that Strelnikova gymnastic has a paradoxal
effect - it increased concentrations of both CO2 and O2 in the blood,
therefore not only asthma attack is not triggered, but it can also be
stopped (as CO2 is increased), while comfort level of the patient is
increased by presence of sufficient O2.

> As I understand it according to Buteyko to improve your
> overall health you need to ensure that any activity you
> do results in a net increase in overall levels of Co2; as
> denoted by your CP measurement.
>
> If somebody with a lower CP  carried out exercises which
> resulted in a further lowering of their CP then , for them,
> this could prove dangerous. For example if somebody with
> a CP around 20 carried out exercises which resulted in a
> lowering of their CP then their body would take defensive
> action to prevent further loss of Co2 i.e. they may exhibit
> symptoms of disease ; the most obvious case would
> be the asthmatic who would begin to gasp
> for breath\wheeze etc.

That would be the case if CO2 level decreased during the exercise.
As opposite is the case, the results are also opposite as clinical
trials in 4 hospitals did not show even one case of attack triggered
by exercise, and if fact Shetining is talking about countless attacks
that were _stopped_ by exercise. He and Strelnikova were in fact
doing stopping the attacks over the phone, by explaining patients
that they have to sit on the bed and do the "pump" or "hug" exercise,
and talking them through the process until attack stopped.

> Evgenij ,thankfully,you have a CP which falls in the healthy range
> of 40 - 60 under normal conditions and so you have
> larger 'stores' of Co2 to fall back if you decide to
> push your body during exercise. This is great and what
> everyone should be aiming for.I think people with
> a low CP have to be careful when using starting Strelnikova
> exercises to ensure they don't push to hard - perhaps carry
> the exercises out from a sitting or lying position.

That definetely helps, as during the attack Shetining also
recomends to do exercise in sitting position to stop it.

Regards,
Evgenij

>
>
>
>
>
> --- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "Evgenij Barsukov"
> <evgenij_b@y...> wrote:
> > --- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000" > ii)
>  >Your
> > control pause & pulse, both, pre & post workout
> >
> > Yesturday I made some control pause (CP) measurements by just
> > closing my nose in random moment and checking the hold time until
> > I feel discomfort.
> > My normal CP is 45.
> > Immediately after Strelnikova exercise it drops to 20. This is
> > no surprize because it is a work-out, so your oxigen consumption
> > significantly increases. CP recovers quite quickly - 30 after
> > 10 minites and 40 after 1 hr. This indicates that the exercise
> > is not too heavy.
> >   For example after realy hard workout (half hour continiously
> > interchaning running and gymnastic with heavy stick) I still have
> CP
> > about 10 after 30 minites cool-down time.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Evgenij

Interesting.

As I understand it according to Buteyko to improve your
overall health you need to ensure that any activity you
do results in a net increase in overall levels of Co2; as
denoted by your CP measurement.

If somebody with a lower CP  carried out exercises which
resulted in a further lowering of their CP then , for them,
this could prove dangerous. For example if somebody with
a CP around 20 carried out exercises which resulted in a
lowering of their CP then their body would take defensive
action to prevent further loss of Co2 i.e. they may exhibit
symptoms of disease ; the most obvious case would
be the asthmatic who would begin to gasp
for breath\wheeze etc.

Evgenij ,thankfully,you have a CP which falls in the healthy range
of 40 - 60 under normal conditions and so you have
larger 'stores' of Co2 to fall back if you decide to
push your body during exercise. This is great and what
everyone should be aiming for.I think people with
a low CP have to be careful when using starting Strelnikova
exercises to ensure they don't push to hard - perhaps carry
the exercises out from a sitting or lying position.





--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "Evgenij Barsukov"
<evgenij_b@y...> wrote:
> --- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000" > ii)
	 >Your
> control pause & pulse, both, pre & post workout
>
> Yesturday I made some control pause (CP) measurements by just
> closing my nose in random moment and checking the hold time until
> I feel discomfort.
> My normal CP is 45.
> Immediately after Strelnikova exercise it drops to 20. This is
> no surprize because it is a work-out, so your oxigen consumption
> significantly increases. CP recovers quite quickly - 30 after
> 10 minites and 40 after 1 hr. This indicates that the exercise
> is not too heavy.
>   For example after realy hard workout (half hour continiously
> interchaning running and gymnastic with heavy stick) I still have
CP
> about 10 after 30 minites cool-down time.
>
> Regards,
> Evgenij

--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000" > ii) >Your
control pause & pulse, both, pre & post workout

Yesturday I made some control pause (CP) measurements by just
closing my nose in random moment and checking the hold time until
I feel discomfort.
My normal CP is 45.
Immediately after Strelnikova exercise it drops to 20. This is
no surprize because it is a work-out, so your oxigen consumption
significantly increases. CP recovers quite quickly - 30 after
10 minites and 40 after 1 hr. This indicates that the exercise
is not too heavy.
   For example after realy hard workout (half hour continiously
interchaning running and gymnastic with heavy stick) I still have CP
about 10 after 30 minites cool-down time.

Regards,
Evgenij

--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000"
<terry.pearson@c...> wrote:
> Evgenij,
>
> Can you answer the following :
>
> 1) Can you detail the Strelnikova workout you follow including
> i) Number of exercises, number of repetitions and the exact
> length
> of time to complete the whole workout. Include as much detail as
> possible eg total number of inhales per session, time of day,
length of time since last meal etc

Some of it is on the web-page, put probably it is useful to
summarize it here:

Number of exercises (moves): 12

Number of sniffs per exercise = 96

Interval between sniffs - defined by the particular exercise,
but geneeral rythm is like marching soldiers

Total time to make 12 exercises: 30 min

Times per day: 1 time for profilactic purposes (if no acute
condition), 2 times a day if acute condition exists.

Time of the day: morning or/and evening. Both morning and evening
exercise are needed in case of moderate or hard asthma or chronic
bronchitus.

> ii) Your control pause & pulse, both, pre & post workout
My control pause in the midle of the day is 45. I will check
it before/after exercise today.
     Actualy it is my daughter who had a problem, but it is hard
to measure CP for a child. I feel however that it improved
a lot since we started exercising 4 month ago. She used to often
pause while talking, specialy after some running, which indicates low
CP. It is all gone now, she can sing continuously for 10 minutes
while swinging on a swing.

> iii) Any particular recommendations by Shentinin
He seems to prefer evening exercise to morning exercise, if only
one is done.

There is lots of other recomendations, I will bring them
in as I remember them.

Regards,
Evgenij



>
> Cheers
>
> Terry

Evgenij,

Can you answer the following :

1) Can you detail the Strelnikova workout you follow including
i) Number of exercises, number of repetitions and the exact
length
of time to complete the whole workout. Include as much detail as
possible eg total number of inhales per session, time of day, length
of time since last meal etc
ii) Your control pause & pulse, both, pre & post workout
iii) Any particular recommendations by Shentinin

Cheers

Terry

--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000" > 2) Is
Strelnikova still alive ? - if not did he\she complete the
> exercises daily and to what age did he\she live to ?

Just came across a web-site
http://www.harbor.ru/ozdorovl/strves.htm
that says that Strelnikova lived until age 77 remaining
healthy and active until the end (that would make cause of
death probably some heart condition).
Yes, she did make her exercises daily which apparently
allowed her to keep sportly looks (she was wearing dresses
and high-healed shoes with 77).

Regards,
Evgenij

Terry,
good to hear that you are making good progress with the exericse.

Following your questions I read up a little about the history
of Strelnikova and Buteyko methods.
That facts are these:

- Buteyko got idea about his method in order to treat his
own acute hypertonia, on 7 October 1952.

- Alexandra Strelikova developed her method to help singers
to regain their voice (also applied to herself), in 1937. Method has
been further developed by her daughter, and later by MD Shetinin.

   Shetinin is the author of the most recent description of the
exercise. In his explanations of the exercise mechanism he
clearly refers to Buteyko findings about hyperventilation. So it
appears that explanations of both methods are converging, while their
application philosophy and origins are quite separate.

--- In strelnikova_exercise@yahoogroups.com, "peart702000"
<terry.pearson@c...> wrote:
> Evegenij,
>
> A quick post to let you know that I feel I am making good progress
> with these exercises.A few questions:
>
> 1)Do you know if Buteyko was aware of Strelnokova's exercises and
> whether any studies were carried out by Buteyko into the
> effectiveness of the exercises ; the exercises certainly seem to
> comply with the idea of increaing aCO2 ,if done correctly.

I found an "original" source of information on Buteyko on
the web-site of his children, www.buteyko.ru. There is a few
of interesting historical overviews and interviews with author (from
1982). From what I read it appears that Buteyko was focusing on
phylosophical and fundamental aspects of his findings about CO2. His
main idea was that once somebody recognizes that deep breathing is
bad, it helps by itself. Practical methods that he
suggested (e.g. in patent N 1067640 ) is designed for application
in clinical settings, as it asks for measurement of CO2 concentratin
in the breath-out air of patient and restriction of the
air-inflow if CO2 is too low). It looks like he did not focus on
developing an self-applicable methodic, focusing on something that
could be done in clinic and in scientificaly controlled environment.

He can not be blamed - he saw his job as proving that principle is
correct, and not in setting-up widespread practical application. He
also did not have access to lots of patients, which is probably the
reason why his fundamental research had priority vs. applications.

I could not find any research on his side where he would test
other breathing methodics (such as yoga, or Strelnikova's, or any
others). I suspect this is not because of the lack of interest from
his side, but because of limited resources. His lab official subject
was developing automated methods of CO2 measurements in blood and
air. I guess he would run into even more trouble with his
superiors if he would  exhibit interest to some "inoficial"
medicine.

>
> 2) Is Strelnikova still alive ? - if not did he\she complete the
> exercises daily and to what age did he\she live to ?

No, Alexandra Strelnikova passed away. I could not find
her exact age, but I can make a derivation that it was
substantial and that in her last years she was still very active-
because Shetinin in his interview in 2001 said that A. Strelnikova
saved his life 24 years ago (which makes it 1977). She was also
issued a patent for her method in 1972. Considering her invention of
the method in 1937 (assuming she was 25-30 then) she must have been
65-70 when she still actively practiced the method.

>
> 3) Clearly Buteyko had a causitive way of thinking ,which seems
> (unfortunately) to be  quite unusual in western medicine, and this
> is what led him to posit the theory that hyperventilation was the
> cause of many of the so called 'civilised' diseases.Did
Strelnilkova
> use this theoretical underpinning to develop the exercises ?

It looks like she did it long before having this information.
However, it is not unusual that "evolution paths" converge near
the correct solution, even if they start from different premices.
It looks like the more succsesful and popular methods are,
the more alike they start to look. Strelnikova and Butyeko
methods are about equaly popular in russia now, so no wonder
they are close in they approaches.
Many human techniques found out empyrically correct practice
while not yet understanding why it works. Take for example first
engine - it was made long before Carnot explained the laws under
which it operates.

We have the advantage now to use both scientific findings and
empyrical material to improve applicability of both. Science
gives to concept _what has to be done_, but not _how it is done_.
It is the job of practitioners to convert the first into second,
and doing that requires combining knowledge from many different
disciplines. Sometimes empyric methods have done just that without
knowing it. Which does not mean they can not be further developed.

Regards,
Evgenij

Evegenij,

A quick post to let you know that I feel I am making good progress
with these exercises.A few questions:

1)Do you know if Buteyko was aware of Strelnokova's exercises and
whether any studies were carried out by Buteyko into the
effectiveness of the exercises ; the exercises certainly seem to
comply with the idea of increaing aCO2 ,if done correctly.

2) Is Strelnikova still alive ? - if not did he\she complete the
exercises daily and to what age did he\she live to ?

3) Clearly Buteyko had a causitive way of thinking ,which seems
(unfortunately) to be  quite unusual in western medicine, and this
is what led him to posit the theory that hyperventilation was the
cause of many of the so called 'civilised' diseases.Did Strelnilkova
use this theoretical underpinning to develop the exercises ?

Cheers

Terry