I saw a recent study that mentioned being isolated, helpless, and/or
disconnected.  I think so much of it can be in the eye of the beholder.  I know
during my pregnancy/labor I was able to tolerate things from my midwife because
I knew and trusted her that if a strange or brusque person had done the same
thing I would have been quite upset.  I think that's at the heart of it
all...treating women like human beings, offering them true informed consent, and
caregivers being truly respectful at this sacred time.  It's my personal belief
that pregnant women are so intuitive and can really sense the difference between
a compassionate caregiver and one that's there to collect a paycheck or even
worse to exert control over women.  Sadly I think that's why ob-gyns are sued so
often.  The difference between the usual midwife practice where a relationship
is developed and attention is paid to the whole woman vs. the average HMO ob-gyn
practice where the woman sees rotating caregivers who don't know her, are
usually running very late, spend little time with her, etc.  To me that's a
recipe for disaster.  If my midwife had made an error I would've chalked it up
to an honest human error.  If the same error was made by a medical practice that
was always running late, didn't know my name without looking in a chart, ignored
my wishes, I would be irate and find somebody to pin the blame on.
Not to say that trauma can't be caused by just bad things that happen-but as far
as things that can be prevented moving maternity care towards more holistic and
respectful is the way to go.  I also want to be clear that I know that it's not
as simple as all midwives = good and all doctors = bad I know there are good and
bad on both sides.  It's just unfortunate that one model of care has moved so
far in one direction.
Lindsey
PS-the study I mentioned:
Thomson, G., & Downe, S. (2008). Widening the trauma discourse: the link between
childbirth and experiences of abuse. Journal of Psychosomatic Obstetrics &
Gynecology, 29(4), 268-273. doi:10.1080/01674820802545453.

That's a very good topic for a book and I'm glad that you are working on it.
Good luck with it. If you are looking for stories from women, we could post
something about it on the mother's board and see if anyone there wants to be
interviewed for it. Let me know if that would be helpful.

If/when you get a list of providers together, yes, please pass them on to us.
We'll add them to the directory that Lindsey is working on. Its starting to come
together. Are you on any listservs or psychologist mailing lists? Could you post
about our group and our registry on there? Also if you know of newsletters for
local or professional organizations, we'd love to get the word out through
those.

Lindsey and I are also working on contacting PSI therapists to invite them to be
on the registry by culling through the lists published on the PSI website. We
could split the list with you and hopefully get through it faster.

For anyone else reading, this is an opportunity for you too. We are really
hoping to make the directory for therapists available to our mothers and on our
website soon and we could use the help. Our goal is to have therapists listed in
each state of the US and then build from there.

Jenne
Moderator and Project Coordinator of Solace for Mothers

--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "Mara Tesler Stein, Psy.D."
<docmara@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jenne,
>
> Please do, and thank you!
>
> Let me talk with Debbie Davis and see if we can come up with a list of
> people around the country who we know and trust.  Itıs surprisingly
> difficult to find therapists who are skilled and comfortable working with
> perinatal trauma (comfort with PPD is easier to find, which is an
> improvement over ten years ago!).  Debbie and I are starting to work on our
> second book, for parents whose babies have been in the NICU (but who were
> not necessarily premature, which was the focus of the first book), so this
> discussion is very timely.
>
> If there are other projects you think I could be helpful with, please donıt
> hesitate to be in touch.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Mara
>
>
> On 9/1/10 12:32 AM, "Jenne d.N. Erigero Alderks" <jenneology@...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mara, welcome. We're glad you are here.
> >
> > Do you mind if we share your business information on the mother's board?
> >
> > Also can you refer us to any other therapist who are familiar with perinatal
> > trauma? That is one of the biggest questions we get from mothers: if we know
> > of any therapists in their area.
> >
> > One of our planned projects is to compile a list of psychologists who know
how
> > to support traumatized mothers. You would be helping us by referring
> > colleagues you know and trust.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To: solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com
> > From: docmara@...
> > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:52:21 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [solacesupporters] introduction
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> My name is Mara Stein and Iım a clinical psychologist in Chicago
specializing
> >> in perinatal and postpartum trauma and loss.  Over the years Iıve seen
women
> >> (and their families) in a wide range of perinatal crises during pregnancy,
> >> delivery, and the postpartum period.  These families are the heart of my
> >> clinical practice.  I do love to work with these families and issues.
> >>
> >> I was delighted to find this group and look forward to getting to know more
> >> about all of you and the work you do on behalf of families.
> >>
> >> Warmly,
> >>
> >> Mara
> >>
> >>
> > Mara Tesler Stein, Psy.D.
> > Clinical Psychologist
> > 773-338-2980
> > coauthor:  Parenting Your Premature Baby and Child:  The Emotional Journey
> > (Fulcrum, 2004) and (in progress with Debbie Davis) NICU Parenting (Fulcrum,
> > tbd)
> > docmara@... <http://docmara@...>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Lindsey, thanks for those ideas! I'll be adding lateness, developing a
relationship of trust and high turn over to my list of things that can
contribute to trauma.

What are your thoughts on a quiz/self-assessment that maternity providers could
take where they get evaluate their behaviors and action in regards to birth
trauma? Would they be honest with themselves? Would they get defensive? Could it
be helpful or more detrimental to publish this on our website?


Jenne
Moderator and Project Coordinator of Solace for Mothers

--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsey" <lsplumer@...> wrote:
>
>
> I saw a recent study that mentioned being isolated, helpless, and/or
disconnected.  I think so much of it can be in the eye of the beholder.  I know
during my pregnancy/labor I was able to tolerate things from my midwife because
I knew and trusted her that if a strange or brusque person had done the same
thing I would have been quite upset.  I think that's at the heart of it
all...treating women like human beings, offering them true informed consent, and
caregivers being truly respectful at this sacred time.  It's my personal belief
that pregnant women are so intuitive and can really sense the difference between
a compassionate caregiver and one that's there to collect a paycheck or even
worse to exert control over women.  Sadly I think that's why ob-gyns are sued so
often.  The difference between the usual midwife practice where a relationship
is developed and attention is paid to the whole woman vs. the average HMO ob-gyn
practice where the woman sees rotating caregivers who don't know her, are
usually running very late, spend little time with her, etc.  To me that's a
recipe for disaster.  If my midwife had made an error I would've chalked it up
to an honest human error.  If the same error was made by a medical practice that
was always running late, didn't know my name without looking in a chart, ignored
my wishes, I would be irate and find somebody to pin the blame on.
> Not to say that trauma can't be caused by just bad things that happen-but as
far as things that can be prevented moving maternity care towards more holistic
and respectful is the way to go.  I also want to be clear that I know that it's
not as simple as all midwives = good and all doctors = bad I know there are good
and bad on both sides.  It's just unfortunate that one model of care has moved
so far in one direction.
> Lindsey
> PS-the study I mentioned:
> Thomson, G., & Downe, S. (2008). Widening the trauma discourse: the link
between childbirth and experiences of abuse. Journal of Psychosomatic Obstetrics
& Gynecology, 29(4), 268-273. doi:10.1080/01674820802545453.
>

Thanks for that link, Sharon--

I can see why the folie a deux occurred to you as a possible definition for the
situation mothercat introduced to us.  Yet that diagnosis seems to be at the far
end of the spectrum of a more ordinarily enmeshed/codependent relationship.  But
ultimately, I suppose that diagnosis depends on how far this particular couple
takes it....how much health and well-being of mother and baby are at-risk from
it.

Maggie

--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, Sharon Storton <sharonstorton@...>
wrote:
>
> I have another option for a way to view this situation:
> follie a deux
> Here's link to read more.
> http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/293107-overview
> I wonder if the father in this family is a bit delusional about his mandate
> and ability to protect the health of those he cares about?  I'd be curious
> about the etiology of it all - perhaps an early trauma or even a more
> biologically-based mental health disorder - but he sure seems to be
> operating out of his own reality and, his wife seems to be joining him
> there.  I have never found it easy to talk someone out of an altered
> reality, especially if the person isn't asking for help in the first place.
> I'm guessing that it presents a no-win situation to be a care provider for
> this family, as it automatically puts you on the third leg of a triangle in
> which you cannot be "allowed" to have more authority that the designated
> rescuer.  Yikes.
> Sharon Storton
>
>
> --
> Sharon Storton, MA, LMFT
> Psychotherapy, Hypnotherapy and EMDR
> with an office in Harmony Birth and Family
> 621 East Campbell Ave, Ste 14
> Campbell, CA  95008
> 408-370-7311
>

My cynical answer is I'm guessing the providers that care enough to take the
self-quiz would already be practicing compassionately, but I don't know if
that's entirely fair.  I think a big problem is that many providers still view
pregnancy and labor as medical emergencies to "deliver" women from.  With this
view, a rude or misogynistic provider can get away with all sorts of things if
mom and baby survive even if they're emotionally or physically traumatized.
My father in law is an ob anesthesiologist and the head of obstetrics at a
hospital.  My mother in law is a pediatrician with three really traumatic
c-sections.  When my husband and I chose to use a midwife my mother in law
practically had me arrested (she would've if she could've).
My father in law has been more open to having discussions about all of these
issues...perhaps I should discuss this with him?  I've heard him make jokes
about obstetric practices, incompetent docs, etc., and it's all fun and games as
long as the mom and baby survive-even if the incompetency means serious birth
injuries for mom or a c-section because they look at it as an emergency anyways.
I will ask what he thinks and if the response seems interesting I will post it
here with his permission.  I think the question, "Do you view pregnancy and
birth as a normal process or an emergency in the making?" would tell us a lot.
Lindsey

--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "jenneology" <jenneology@...> wrote:
>
> Lindsey, thanks for those ideas! I'll be adding lateness, developing a
relationship of trust and high turn over to my list of things that can
contribute to trauma.
>
> What are your thoughts on a quiz/self-assessment that maternity providers
could take where they get evaluate their behaviors and action in regards to
birth trauma? Would they be honest with themselves? Would they get defensive?
Could it be helpful or more detrimental to publish this on our website?
>
>
> Jenne
> Moderator and Project Coordinator of Solace for Mothers
>

If you are in the SF Bay Area this week end , please join me in a march/run/
walk that is in support of Midwives everywhere. Supporting midwives, and natural
birth is one way that we can empower women before , during and after the birth
and thus reduce the PPD that so many women go through along with the trauma of a
hospital birth...
Amnesty International will have a table and will be supporting its Demand
Dignity campaign, which addresses the high maternal mortality rate in the US...
(http://www.amnestyusa.org/demand-dignity/maternal-health-is-a-human-right/the-u\
nited-states/page )
If you are not in the Bay Area, please check the following link to see if there
is a group in your area.

Hope to see you there.

MIles for Midwives: http://sfmiles4midwives.blogspot.com
Maddy Oden

You know that Margaret Mead quote about the only thing that ever made change
happen was a group of concerned citizens? I believe it.

There are so many areas of concern for birth professionals and those who have an
interest in the birth world and I wonder how can we mobilize, join with others
and attract others to join with us in advocating for the changes that we know
need to happen?

This is somewhat beyond birth trauma, but it is part of it. We all know how
delicate, intricate and mysterious the process of birth and bonding is. There is
likely much we don't know that impacts it. The answer for things we don't
understand is probably the same for things that we do: if we remove interference
it has a better chance of working out. Birth trauma is just part of it, there is
much more that plays into it.

So my question is: how do we join people together to advocate for all the things
that matter to and impact birth?

What ways do you advocate?

My name is Dy. I am a mother, doula/cbe and midwife apprentice. I also suffered
through a traumatic birth at the hands of a homebirth midwife. I had already
been in birth work for several years by that point and it rocked my world to
discover that just because you are birthing at home it doesn't mean it is
guaranteed safe. You can read my birth story in my blog here:
http://completebeginnings.blogspot.com/2010/09/birth-of-my-third-everett-roger.h\
tml#comments

I attended extensive therapy (all the while attending beautiful homebirths) when
I was pregnant with #4 because I was terrified of giving birth again. See story
here:
http://completebeginnings.blogspot.com/2010/09/birth-of-my-fourth-scoot-october-\
24th.html#comments

I worked with a MFT that was experienced in working with trauma and had
experience with somatic experiencing
http://www.traumahealing.com/somatic-experiencing/index.html I have my BS is
psych.

It was so helpful I am considering becoming a practitioner. I still live in the
community with my abuser and she is continuing to similar things to more women.
I have had a diffult time navigating this. It is sticky because I am not only a
woman and mother but also "her competition" so everything I say is seen as
jaded. Any one else dealt with this. Anyone have experience with somatic
experiencing?

Hi, is anybody going to this conference:
http://www.birthpsychology.com/congress/2010/congress_2010.html
I will be going to the Phyllis Klaus workshop on Sunday.  Somehow I'm going to
make it happen.  It's on a Sunday night and 3.5 hours from home and my husband
is working and I'm not sure who will be with our daughter but SOMEHOW I will
make it work!  If anybody else is attending I would love to meet up and chat!
Lindsey

Hello Dy--

Thanks so much for sharing your stories--and the link to Dr Levine's work!  I
went to his website and plan to get the book...just from the table of contents
it looks great.

I have heard of the horrors of 'power birth'...never looked into the 'method',
no idea if it works for some but it sounds mainly like the so-called power is
all in the hands of the practitioner!  And sets up conditions for women to be so
disenfranchised--at least.  My heart aches to know your story of that
experience.

But I'm so glad to know of your healing journey and the healing birth you also
had, 'After E'!  Our healing power is so great, you affirm that for me once
again.

And believe me I know all about living in a community with an abusive
midwife--and the way that she, and her followers, and even well-intentioned
others who just do NOT know the scoop, can project the problems onto the targets
of abuse.  In my case, I was never her client--only the 'lucky one': from the
moment we met and discovered the vast differences in our approaches to
midwifery, I was targeted by her with bullying (through spreading lies/rumors)
meant to destroy my practice before people ever met me (I was returning to
practice after a long break).   I think she got one glimpse from our
conversation and knew I would be a 'threat' to her business by offering
something families would want more than her.  And then I was the 'lucky one' to
become the recipient of so many stories/complaints by her past client/victims. 
I was not her 'client/victim', only the one who has tried to get the mw help in
learning more, and tried to help raise the hb-community's awareness about safe
midwifery.  Yeah, I know all about been seen as 'jaded' or 'overly competitive',
all that....and I have watched with dismay as her client/victims have received
the further abuse of being blamed by the mw and others for their traumatic
births, and ostracized by the community for attempting to shed light on the mw's
practice.  I can't say I know from experience exactly what you have experienced
and felt...but I do have some idea from what I've seen, and been subjected to,
here.

So, welcome here and much affirmation and love to you as you continue your
journey into healing as a woman, a midwife and perhaps eventually as a healer
via somatic experiencing!

Maggie

--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "completebeginnings"
<completebeginnings@...> wrote:
>
> My name is Dy. I am a mother, doula/cbe and midwife apprentice. I also
suffered through a traumatic birth at the hands of a homebirth midwife. I had
already been in birth work for several years by that point and it rocked my
world to discover that just because you are birthing at home it doesn't mean it
is guaranteed safe. You can read my birth story in my blog here:
>
http://completebeginnings.blogspot.com/2010/09/birth-of-my-third-everett-roger.h\
tml#comments

Jenne--

I have been thinking about your post for days now...trying to figure out how to
answer.  The oldest, most deeply rooted part of me that is basically an activist
born and bred, perks up to attention at your words.  And more newly-learned
traits make me hesitate!

You are right that it is beyond birth trauma...so very beyond that.  And yes,
the process of birth is mysterious, delicate and intricate--but so is politics
(any form of group action)!  As a person who has been the target of backlash by
those (in various arenas, not just birth) with a strong interest in maintaining
the status quo, I know how far some will go to squash any perceived threat to
that status quo--and never mind common goals.  I have seen this not only in the
OB-birth world, but also in the homebirth world.  For better or for worse, I
have learned to keep a lower profile and focus on individual interactions rather
than group action.

And this gets to the heart of how I advocate: first, as a midwife, working
one-to-one to facilitate women's and families empowerment with birth and health
so they have the most empowering birth experiences possible.  Whether a birth is
able to safely remain at home or winds up occurring in the hospital instead, a
woman/family who can birth with choice and power is a family forever transformed
from the inside out.  They become people with new understanding about themselves
and how they can BE in their world.  This is true for 1st time moms, and perhaps
even more true for those who birth empowered after a traumatic or at least
dis-enfranchised birth in the past.

And secondly I advocate through participation in forums such as MDC, and more
recently through my creation (in process) of a blog/website, where I can speak
with 'groups' about all the particular and general birth and health issues that
impact women's/families sense of possibility and power.  Providing information,
and a viewpoint as grist for their mills--hoping to encourage new thinking, and
support courageous action.

I love the powerful simplicity of this comment of yours: "if we remove
interference it has a better chance of working out."  It well sums up one of my
basic goals in midwifing, and in speaking publically/online about birth, health,
and essential empowerment of people: removing interference...helping people
remove their blinders concerning the 'knowledge' and 'power' of the
institutions. And hopefully along the way, also facilitating people's healing of
internal psych-emo blocks to personal power.

For me the problem with groups has always been in the very nature of groups
among people born and bred to heirarchy/patriarchy: whether groups are
self-labelled as heirarchies or as 'consensus circles', there is always the
emergence of leader/follower mentality...the jockeying for power in groups; the
generally vicious struggle to preserve power dynamics that become established
among individuals in a group; the quest for something called 'unity' which
always seems to gravitate in time toward suppression of diversity and alternate
viewpoints--the establishment of One Right Way.

Long ago I was a person who both joined and started groups...and yes, Margret
Mead is so right--the transformative power of a group of dedicated individuals
is so great.  Now I am a person a lot more timid about groups for various
reasons.  But I have already said a lot so I'll leave it at that, for now.

I hope others will speak to this, your questions are so important for the whole
planet's survival, in my opinion.

Here is a link to my blog, still much under construction.  One thing I haven't
added yet, is a page re birth trauma.

http://womynwisespeaks.wordpress.com/

Maggie

--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "jenneology" <jenneology@...> wrote:
>
> You know that Margaret Mead quote about the only thing that ever made change
happen was a group of concerned citizens? I believe it.
>
> There are so many areas of concern for birth professionals and those who have
an interest in the birth world and I wonder how can we mobilize, join with
others and attract others to join with us in advocating for the changes that we
know need to happen?
>
> This is somewhat beyond birth trauma, but it is part of it. We all know how
delicate, intricate and mysterious the process of birth and bonding is. There is
likely much we don't know that impacts it. The answer for things we don't
understand is probably the same for things that we do: if we remove interference
it has a better chance of working out. Birth trauma is just part of it, there is
much more that plays into it.
>
> So my question is: how do we join people together to advocate for all the
things that matter to and impact birth?
>
> What ways do you advocate?
>

Dy, welcome, I'm glad you here. I'm sorry for your traumatic experiences. Yet,
you have a perspective that could be very helpful in finding solutions to
prevent trauma. I look forward to talking with and learning from you.

Have you considered joining the mother's board? The URL is
http://mothers.solaceformothers.org. You are welcome to join there and vent your
difficulties, frustrations and successes in healing from trauma. I think the
mothers there would like to learn from you how you deal with living in the same
community and working in the same social network with someone who hurt you so
profoundly.

Also do you know about The Birth Survey and have you taken it to report on the
midwife that traumatized you?

Again, welcome. Please read through some of the topics here and weigh in.

____________
Jenne, Moderator and Project Coordinator

--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "completebeginnings"
<completebeginnings@...> wrote:
>
> My name is Dy. I am a mother, doula/cbe and midwife apprentice. I also
suffered through a traumatic birth at the hands of a homebirth midwife. I had
already been in birth work for several years by that point and it rocked my
world to discover that just because you are birthing at home it doesn't mean it
is guaranteed safe. You can read my birth story in my blog here:
>
http://completebeginnings.blogspot.com/2010/09/birth-of-my-third-everett-roger.h\
tml#comments
>
> I attended extensive therapy (all the while attending beautiful homebirths)
when I was pregnant with #4 because I was terrified of giving birth again. See
story here:
>
http://completebeginnings.blogspot.com/2010/09/birth-of-my-fourth-scoot-october-\
24th.html#comments
>
> I worked with a MFT that was experienced in working with trauma and had
experience with somatic experiencing
http://www.traumahealing.com/somatic-experiencing/index.html I have my BS is
psych.
>
> It was so helpful I am considering becoming a practitioner. I still live in
the community with my abuser and she is continuing to similar things to more
women. I have had a diffult time navigating this. It is sticky because I am not
only a woman and mother but also "her competition" so everything I say is seen
as jaded. Any one else dealt with this. Anyone have experience with somatic
experiencing?
>

Maggie, thanks for your response. And especially thank you for the healthy dose
of reality that reminds me of some of the obstacles that are present in trying
to bring groups together.

Can you share some of your experiences in how you've seen this in midwifery and
the natural birth community? With midwifery, I do have some understanding of
turf-wars and the tensions inherent there. I recognize with you the need and the
value from stepping away from those and just not being involved and trying to
not get sucked in to it. What about more general birth advocacy work, however?
Do you see the same kind of struggles in among the birth advocacy organizations?

I've continued to think on this topic since I originally posted about it and I
realized that I should tell this story. A few years ago, at the Coalition for
Improving Maternity Services Forum, there was a effort to mobilize the birth
advocacy organizations together. They decided to start by working on one project
that each would be interested in seeing come to fruition. That project was The
Birth Survey and unfortunately, the group effort has dissolved so the survey is
being mainly supported and operated by CIMS with some local volunteers from many
other organizations. I wonder if trying to regroup around that project is the
answer or if a new direction is needed. I am in talks with the administrator of
The Birth Survey on this same topic.

With that story, it can be seen that other people have been thinking about this
and efforts have been made. However, a centralized place to connect is still
needed and it purpose needs to be readily and easily understood.

I've been trying to think of ways how to organize this and I haven't figured it
out yet.

By organizations? by group? by topic?

I'm leaning to topics, so which topics?
VBAC
Prematurity
Mothers in Poverty
Birth Trauma
Informed Consent
Patient-Centered Care
Access to Midwifery/Homebirth

Does that cover the spectrum? Is anything missing? Can/should any be combined?


And since I'm getting carried away, before I forget, Maggie, I love the look of
your site. Can you add an RSS feed to it and I'll add it to my reader.


____________
Jenne, Moderator and Project Coordinator

I haven't really been involved in general birth advocacy for a long time,
Jenne--can't really say what is going on there.  As for midwifery--well yeah
there are always the turf wars...but I just don't think that way.  But some
mws--and sometimes their loyal clients, and even the state midwifery and hb
advocacy groups who have known and approved of this or that mw for awhile--feel
differently for sure...

I might be the wrong person to address this, come to think of it.  My own
experiences have mainly been negative with groups!  It may be that I just don't
have the personality for groups.  Hehehehe...an astrologer once told me that my
natal chart could be summed up thusly: 'you are an agent of the forces that
disrupt the status quo'.  Which is a very valuable natural talent in some
situations...but one that, well, often pisses people off.

Right now, I am dealing with being ostracized by the state midwifery org and
consumer hb referral org.  They have said (in writing) that I'm a fine mw--so
it's not about my practice.  It's about some personal issue that one particular
mw has with me, period (no really, she was named in their letter).  It's been a
major cluster f*** for sure--as a whole lotta talk occurred behind my back,
decisions got made, a letter sent to me explaining that they would no longer
refer me unless I met xyz conditions.  Whoa.  wow.  In asking for face to face
discussion with the boards of each org, I have been refused so far--it's a 'meet
the conditions or you're out' kinda thing. I have no idea what is going on,
except that the other mw has been around longer, is pretty popular, and
apparently finds me threatening (we don't hang out).  Anyway, I find this (apart
from distressing) so highly ironic--because I recently moved a lot closer to a
particular city in part for the express purpose of getting more involved with
the mw org and the consumer advocacy org--getting involved with groups being
something I haven't done for so very long.  No sooner had I arrived than I got
this letter--within a couple weeks, before I even went to a meeting. Well, not
being such a group oriented person...and being no lover whatsoever of being
bossed around without good explanation... I have not met their ridiculous
conditions.  No freakin way, not without a lot more info, and btw some common
courtesy.

Also highly ironic, it turns out, because my clients and various others are
pretty ticked off about this.  There was already some diviseness stirring that
I'd been told about but wasn't involved in.  Anyway, so now a mw is being
prosecuted in our 'CPM legal but not licensed state' and instead of being poised
for unified support, lines are being drawn.  And I'm for sure not planning to
send money or go to court for a mw who was on the board that just made those
decisions about me--both of which would cost me money that is in direly short
supply at the moment due to being refused referrals!  I will do my own part to
help bring the best for midwifery, from a sad situation--just not by spending
the time and gas money to drive 4hrs to sit in court for her in a show of unity.
Not by sending $$ for her legal defense.  Isn't that just...I don't know...sad,
ironic, kinda mind-boggling?

Yeah, maybe I'm not the person to answer your query (tho I've said a lot
anyway).  Apparently, groups spit me out even before I'm in even fully in their
midst ;-)  Maybe my given role in this life is to be somewhat of a Lone
Ranger...which does have its purposes and advantages!

You know, I do get your urge to mobilize and unify--to make large efforts and
big noises that get a lot of attention.  And maybe it just works best if people
do engage with the topics that move them most.  And with that, see and energize
the 'unity' more on a spiritual plane, but not try too hard to create unified
effort in practical ways.  Small groups really do have power--maybe that is the
thing that needs to be acknowledged and honored.  Critical mass can be reached
this way, no?

But who am I to say, with my talents perhaps lying elsewhere...

Maggie

--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "jenneology" <jenneology@...> wrote:
>
> Maggie, thanks for your response. And especially thank you for the healthy
dose of reality that reminds me of some of the obstacles that are present in
trying to bring groups together.
>
> Can you share some of your experiences in how you've seen this in midwifery
and the natural birth community? With midwifery, I do have some understanding of
turf-wars and the tensions inherent there. I recognize with you the need and the
value from stepping away from those and just not being involved and trying to
not get sucked in to it. What about more general birth advocacy work, however?
Do you see the same kind of struggles in among the birth advocacy organizations?
>
> I've continued to think on this topic since I originally posted about it and I
realized that I should tell this story. A few years ago, at the Coalition for
Improving Maternity Services Forum, there was a effort to mobilize the birth
advocacy organizations together. They decided to start by working on one project
that each would be interested in seeing come to fruition. That project was The
Birth Survey and unfortunately, the group effort has dissolved so the survey is
being mainly supported and operated by CIMS with some local volunteers from many
other organizations. I wonder if trying to regroup around that project is the
answer or if a new direction is needed. I am in talks with the administrator of
The Birth Survey on this same topic.
>
> With that story, it can be seen that other people have been thinking about
this and efforts have been made. However, a centralized place to connect is
still needed and it purpose needs to be readily and easily understood.
>
> I've been trying to think of ways how to organize this and I haven't figured
it out yet.
>
> By organizations? by group? by topic?
>
> I'm leaning to topics, so which topics?
> VBAC
> Prematurity
> Mothers in Poverty
> Birth Trauma
> Informed Consent
> Patient-Centered Care
> Access to Midwifery/Homebirth
>
> Does that cover the spectrum? Is anything missing? Can/should any be combined?
>
>
> And since I'm getting carried away, before I forget, Maggie, I love the look
of your site. Can you add an RSS feed to it and I'll add it to my reader.
>
>
> ____________
> Jenne, Moderator and Project Coordinator
>

Any one here run a local support group in their community for birth trauma? How
successful has it been? What guidelines do you follow? What can you do to help?
I am thinking of starting one where I live and practice but wanted some
guidelines. Thanks
Dy

Hi, Dy,
I'm doing my first workshop in December, so I can't tell you what to do from
experience, but what I'm doing an educational workshop.  I'm going to include
symptoms and causes of trauma, criteria for PTSD, difference between trauma and
postpartum depression, self-help ideas (exercise, nutrition, support groups,
journaling, nutrition, EFT, breastfeeding), professional treatments (medication,
psychotherapy, EMDR, etc.), when to seek professional help, have a time to share
stories and then do a guided imagery for releasing grief/trauma.  I'm going to
try and get doula CEUs and encourage doulas to come as a way to learn about
trauma and prevent vicarious trauma.  There has been some research that shows
that NICU nurses with unresolved birth trauma burn out fairly quickly and I'm
guessing the same would be true of doulas, too.  At the end of the workshop I'll
provide referrals to local self-help groups (free), low-cost/sliding scale
counseling, and regular counselors (myself included).  I'm guessing it will take
about 2.5 hours and I'm only charing $25 at this point.  I would love to hear
any suggestions people might have.  I get that a one time workshop won't cure
PTSD, but I'm hoping it will encourage women to learn more, effectively utilize
resources, and also there has been some research that shows that traumatized
people who share their stories with people who have gone through similar
situations actually have reduced trauma symptoms.
Lindsey



--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "completebeginnings"
<completebeginnings@...> wrote:
>
> Any one here run a local support group in their community for birth trauma?
How successful has it been? What guidelines do you follow? What can you do to
help? I am thinking of starting one where I live and practice but wanted some
guidelines. Thanks
> Dy
>

I've heard stories like yours from other midwives too, Maggie. And in my
experience, the ones who that is happening to are the ones who are traditional
with mother midwives who holds a mother's ability to think for and consent of
her own free will sacrosanct. Unfortunately the medical and conventional
midwifery establishments don't agree. Obviously because its your type of midwife
that I have the most respect for and strive to be like, I'm setting myself up
for some of the same petty nonsense that others are making you deal with. It
sounds like you are good at having a tough skin, though I know how that's not
easy to maintain. I hope you have supportive peers to help you deal with that!


Jenne, Project Coordinator and Moderator of Solace for Mothers

--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "womynwyz1" <womynwise1@...> wrote:
>
> I haven't really been involved in general birth advocacy for a long time,
Jenne--can't really say what is going on there.  As for midwifery--well yeah
there are always the turf wars...but I just don't think that way.  But some
mws--and sometimes their loyal clients, and even the state midwifery and hb
advocacy groups who have known and approved of this or that mw for awhile--feel
differently for sure...
>
> I might be the wrong person to address this, come to think of it.  My own
experiences have mainly been negative with groups!  It may be that I just don't
have the personality for groups.  Hehehehe...an astrologer once told me that my
natal chart could be summed up thusly: 'you are an agent of the forces that
disrupt the status quo'.  Which is a very valuable natural talent in some
situations...but one that, well, often pisses people off.
>
> Right now, I am dealing with being ostracized by the state midwifery org and
consumer hb referral org.  They have said (in writing) that I'm a fine mw--so
it's not about my practice.  It's about some personal issue that one particular
mw has with me, period (no really, she was named in their letter).  It's been a
major cluster f*** for sure--as a whole lotta talk occurred behind my back,
decisions got made, a letter sent to me explaining that they would no longer
refer me unless I met xyz conditions.  Whoa.  wow.  In asking for face to face
discussion with the boards of each org, I have been refused so far--it's a 'meet
the conditions or you're out' kinda thing. I have no idea what is going on,
except that the other mw has been around longer, is pretty popular, and
apparently finds me threatening (we don't hang out).  Anyway, I find this (apart
from distressing) so highly ironic--because I recently moved a lot closer to a
particular city in part for the express purpose of getting more involved with
the mw org and the consumer advocacy org--getting involved with groups being
something I haven't done for so very long.  No sooner had I arrived than I got
this letter--within a couple weeks, before I even went to a meeting. Well, not
being such a group oriented person...and being no lover whatsoever of being
bossed around without good explanation... I have not met their ridiculous
conditions.  No freakin way, not without a lot more info, and btw some common
courtesy.
>
> Also highly ironic, it turns out, because my clients and various others are
pretty ticked off about this.  There was already some diviseness stirring that
I'd been told about but wasn't involved in.  Anyway, so now a mw is being
prosecuted in our 'CPM legal but not licensed state' and instead of being poised
for unified support, lines are being drawn.  And I'm for sure not planning to
send money or go to court for a mw who was on the board that just made those
decisions about me--both of which would cost me money that is in direly short
supply at the moment due to being refused referrals!  I will do my own part to
help bring the best for midwifery, from a sad situation--just not by spending
the time and gas money to drive 4hrs to sit in court for her in a show of unity.
Not by sending $$ for her legal defense.  Isn't that just...I don't know...sad,
ironic, kinda mind-boggling?
>
> Yeah, maybe I'm not the person to answer your query (tho I've said a lot
anyway).  Apparently, groups spit me out even before I'm in even fully in their
midst ;-)  Maybe my given role in this life is to be somewhat of a Lone
Ranger...which does have its purposes and advantages!
>
> You know, I do get your urge to mobilize and unify--to make large efforts and
big noises that get a lot of attention.  And maybe it just works best if people
do engage with the topics that move them most.  And with that, see and energize
the 'unity' more on a spiritual plane, but not try too hard to create unified
effort in practical ways.  Small groups really do have power--maybe that is the
thing that needs to be acknowledged and honored.  Critical mass can be reached
this way, no?
>
> But who am I to say, with my talents perhaps lying elsewhere...
>
> Maggie
>
> --- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "jenneology" <jenneology@> wrote:
> >
> > Maggie, thanks for your response. And especially thank you for the healthy
dose of reality that reminds me of some of the obstacles that are present in
trying to bring groups together.
> >
> > Can you share some of your experiences in how you've seen this in midwifery
and the natural birth community? With midwifery, I do have some understanding of
turf-wars and the tensions inherent there. I recognize with you the need and the
value from stepping away from those and just not being involved and trying to
not get sucked in to it. What about more general birth advocacy work, however?
Do you see the same kind of struggles in among the birth advocacy organizations?
> >
> > I've continued to think on this topic since I originally posted about it and
I realized that I should tell this story. A few years ago, at the Coalition for
Improving Maternity Services Forum, there was a effort to mobilize the birth
advocacy organizations together. They decided to start by working on one project
that each would be interested in seeing come to fruition. That project was The
Birth Survey and unfortunately, the group effort has dissolved so the survey is
being mainly supported and operated by CIMS with some local volunteers from many
other organizations. I wonder if trying to regroup around that project is the
answer or if a new direction is needed. I am in talks with the administrator of
The Birth Survey on this same topic.
> >
> > With that story, it can be seen that other people have been thinking about
this and efforts have been made. However, a centralized place to connect is
still needed and it purpose needs to be readily and easily understood.
> >
> > I've been trying to think of ways how to organize this and I haven't figured
it out yet.
> >
> > By organizations? by group? by topic?
> >
> > I'm leaning to topics, so which topics?
> > VBAC
> > Prematurity
> > Mothers in Poverty
> > Birth Trauma
> > Informed Consent
> > Patient-Centered Care
> > Access to Midwifery/Homebirth
> >
> > Does that cover the spectrum? Is anything missing? Can/should any be
combined?
> >
> >
> > And since I'm getting carried away, before I forget, Maggie, I love the look
of your site. Can you add an RSS feed to it and I'll add it to my reader.
> >
> >
> > ____________
> > Jenne, Moderator and Project Coordinator
> >
>

I'm sharing this on behalf of Sharon. She is recruiting mothers who have been
traumatized for a study looking at the effectiveness/helpfulness of online peer
discussion groups like Solace. Please pass this invitation on to others. Blog,
tweet it, post it on Facebook. Thank you!

Solace for Mothers is three years old this month!  Just as with my human
offspring, when I conceived Solace in October 2007, I did not envision how it
would unfold.  In an effort to understand, going forward, what is working well
and what might be improved, I would love to be able to interview a few women
about their experiences with Solace and other online groups aimed at supporting
women after difficult childbearing experiences.

Here is the invitation letter that has been approved by the University of
Calgary Ethics Committee to serve as an invitation for this research:


Re:         Request for participation in a qualitative enquiry about the
experience of Internet-based peer support following challenging childbirth.


I am a graduate student at the University Calgary, in Alberta, Canada, in the
Interdisicplinary Studies program, as well as a marriage and family therapist in
private practice in Sunnyvale, California.   Some of you know of my work, as
well, with CIMS (Coalition for Improving Maternity Services), Solace for
Mothers, and talks and articles about birth trauma for various organizations
over the past few years.  The more I learn, the more I realize I need to know! 
I am, therefore, asking for your help in that regard.
I believe that women need to be teaching health professionals about what women
need in the form of support in recovering from challenging childbearing
experiences.  I believe that the support organizations that women have created
for themselves would be a great place to begin the conversations, as those are
likely to be the most mother-centred support sites of all.


I am asking for one to two hours of your time (and with young children – that's
no small gift!), to participate in a recorded telephone interview.  I will ask
you what you want me to know about your experience of participating in
mother-to-mother support over the Internet as you recover from childbirth that
unfolded very differently from what you had planned.  I will listen carefully,
ask questions, and then transcribe your thoughts for use in a qualitative
interpretive analysis of what you and your colleagues have passed along.


  I will be using the information you share with me, in the first place, to
complete a Master's Thesis for the University of Calgary.   After my thesis is
complete and accepted, the ideas gathered will be shared with the leadership of
these organizations, and with the mothers engaged in these online support
groups.  I also intend to seek publication of this information in professional
articles, presentations and, possibly, a book , as I believe your wisdom needs
to be shared.


Your name and your specific information will be held confidential.  I will
protect all identifying data, unless you specifically ask me to do otherwise. 
Your decision to participate – or not – in the research will in no way affect
your ability to use any online support resource.   In fact, if you decide to
participate in an interview, you can leave the study at any point before,
during,  and up to one month after the interview.  The whole idea here is to
give you a voice.  Knowing when to withhold that voice is just as important as
anything you choose to share.


I feel strongly that safety is our first priority, so I ask that you be in a
secure and stable place in your own recovery from birth before being interviewed
for this study.  Sometimes, talking about difficult events brings up old
feelings once again.  I am also asking that you have participated in one of the
support sites listed above on a weekly basis over the course of at least one
month.  Some people have participated for a greater period of time, however, the
sharing of a variety of experiences is important.  Their voice cannot replace
yours.


Thank you very much in advance for considering this request.  If you have any
questions, please do not hesitate to contact me at stortoncalgary@....    
If you would like to offer your participation in an interview for this project,
please email me at stortoncalgary@....

Gosh, Jenne--

You said "the ones who that is happening to are the ones who are traditional
with mother midwives who holds a mother's ability to think for and consent of
her own free will sacrosanct. Unfortunately the medical and conventional
midwifery establishments don't agree."

I never knew there was a movement afoot!  LOL.  Yep, you hit the nail on the
head.  Such a weird thing--I got where I am (hb and UC mom, mw) by thinking for
myself.  Midwifery got back on the map, because quite a few of us were thinking
for ourselves.  Now midwifery is being 'mainstreamed', which is better for
greater common access--and much worse for independent thinking and truly
informed consent.

Nice to know I'm a member of my own special club though, if I can't be in the
Main Club here...LOL.  Tough skin?  Nope.  But definitely too stubborn to cave
in to the pressure.  No supportive peers here...but thank goodness for the
internet ;-)

thanks for your comment!
Maggie

--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "jenneology" <jenneology@...> wrote:
>
> I've heard stories like yours from other midwives too, Maggie. And in my
experience, the ones who that is happening to are the ones who are traditional
with mother midwives who holds a mother's ability to think for and consent of
her own free will sacrosanct. Unfortunately the medical and conventional
midwifery establishments don't agree. Obviously because its your type of midwife
that I have the most respect for and strive to be like, I'm setting myself up
for some of the same petty nonsense that others are making you deal with. It
sounds like you are good at having a tough skin, though I know how that's not
easy to maintain. I hope you have supportive peers to help you deal with that!
>
>
> Jenne, Project Coordinator and Moderator of Solace for Mothers
>
> --- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "womynwyz1" <womynwise1@> wrote:
> >
> > I haven't really been involved in general birth advocacy for a long time,
Jenne--can't really say what is going on there.  As for midwifery--well yeah
there are always the turf wars...but I just don't think that way.  But some
mws--and sometimes their loyal clients, and even the state midwifery and hb
advocacy groups who have known and approved of this or that mw for awhile--feel
differently for sure...
> >
> > I might be the wrong person to address this, come to think of it.  My own
experiences have mainly been negative with groups!  It may be that I just don't
have the personality for groups.  Hehehehe...an astrologer once told me that my
natal chart could be summed up thusly: 'you are an agent of the forces that
disrupt the status quo'.  Which is a very valuable natural talent in some
situations...but one that, well, often pisses people off.
> >
> > Right now, I am dealing with being ostracized by the state midwifery org and
consumer hb referral org.  They have said (in writing) that I'm a fine mw--so
it's not about my practice.  It's about some personal issue that one particular
mw has with me, period (no really, she was named in their letter).  It's been a
major cluster f*** for sure--as a whole lotta talk occurred behind my back,
decisions got made, a letter sent to me explaining that they would no longer
refer me unless I met xyz conditions.  Whoa.  wow.  In asking for face to face
discussion with the boards of each org, I have been refused so far--it's a 'meet
the conditions or you're out' kinda thing. I have no idea what is going on,
except that the other mw has been around longer, is pretty popular, and
apparently finds me threatening (we don't hang out).  Anyway, I find this (apart
from distressing) so highly ironic--because I recently moved a lot closer to a
particular city in part for the express purpose of getting more involved with
the mw org and the consumer advocacy org--getting involved with groups being
something I haven't done for so very long.  No sooner had I arrived than I got
this letter--within a couple weeks, before I even went to a meeting. Well, not
being such a group oriented person...and being no lover whatsoever of being
bossed around without good explanation... I have not met their ridiculous
conditions.  No freakin way, not without a lot more info, and btw some common
courtesy.
> >
> > Also highly ironic, it turns out, because my clients and various others are
pretty ticked off about this.  There was already some diviseness stirring that
I'd been told about but wasn't involved in.  Anyway, so now a mw is being
prosecuted in our 'CPM legal but not licensed state' and instead of being poised
for unified support, lines are being drawn.  And I'm for sure not planning to
send money or go to court for a mw who was on the board that just made those
decisions about me--both of which would cost me money that is in direly short
supply at the moment due to being refused referrals!  I will do my own part to
help bring the best for midwifery, from a sad situation--just not by spending
the time and gas money to drive 4hrs to sit in court for her in a show of unity.
Not by sending $$ for her legal defense.  Isn't that just...I don't know...sad,
ironic, kinda mind-boggling?
> >
> > Yeah, maybe I'm not the person to answer your query (tho I've said a lot
anyway).  Apparently, groups spit me out even before I'm in even fully in their
midst ;-)  Maybe my given role in this life is to be somewhat of a Lone
Ranger...which does have its purposes and advantages!
> >
> > You know, I do get your urge to mobilize and unify--to make large efforts
and big noises that get a lot of attention.  And maybe it just works best if
people do engage with the topics that move them most.  And with that, see and
energize the 'unity' more on a spiritual plane, but not try too hard to create
unified effort in practical ways.  Small groups really do have power--maybe that
is the thing that needs to be acknowledged and honored.  Critical mass can be
reached this way, no?
> >
> > But who am I to say, with my talents perhaps lying elsewhere...
> >
> > Maggie
> >
> > --- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "jenneology" <jenneology@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maggie, thanks for your response. And especially thank you for the healthy
dose of reality that reminds me of some of the obstacles that are present in
trying to bring groups together.
> > >
> > > Can you share some of your experiences in how you've seen this in
midwifery and the natural birth community? With midwifery, I do have some
understanding of turf-wars and the tensions inherent there. I recognize with you
the need and the value from stepping away from those and just not being involved
and trying to not get sucked in to it. What about more general birth advocacy
work, however? Do you see the same kind of struggles in among the birth advocacy
organizations?
> > >
> > > I've continued to think on this topic since I originally posted about it
and I realized that I should tell this story. A few years ago, at the Coalition
for Improving Maternity Services Forum, there was a effort to mobilize the birth
advocacy organizations together. They decided to start by working on one project
that each would be interested in seeing come to fruition. That project was The
Birth Survey and unfortunately, the group effort has dissolved so the survey is
being mainly supported and operated by CIMS with some local volunteers from many
other organizations. I wonder if trying to regroup around that project is the
answer or if a new direction is needed. I am in talks with the administrator of
The Birth Survey on this same topic.
> > >
> > > With that story, it can be seen that other people have been thinking about
this and efforts have been made. However, a centralized place to connect is
still needed and it purpose needs to be readily and easily understood.
> > >
> > > I've been trying to think of ways how to organize this and I haven't
figured it out yet.
> > >
> > > By organizations? by group? by topic?
> > >
> > > I'm leaning to topics, so which topics?
> > > VBAC
> > > Prematurity
> > > Mothers in Poverty
> > > Birth Trauma
> > > Informed Consent
> > > Patient-Centered Care
> > > Access to Midwifery/Homebirth
> > >
> > > Does that cover the spectrum? Is anything missing? Can/should any be
combined?
> > >
> > >
> > > And since I'm getting carried away, before I forget, Maggie, I love the
look of your site. Can you add an RSS feed to it and I'll add it to my reader.
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________
> > > Jenne, Moderator and Project Coordinator
> > >
> >
>

I wanted to add, about having a 'tough skin':

To me, being the kind of mom, mw, birth trauma survivor and human being I most
want to be, means NOT getting too tough a skin!  Being thick skinned, IMO, just
leads to a reduced sensitivity to what I WANT to remain sensitive to, in myself,
kids, clients, my world.  Being tough skinned is good for ambition...bad for
intuition and empathy both, IMO.  And intuition/empathy are sense I hold very
high in my loving and working.

So, for you, Jenne--and any others of like mind on this subtopic, I say--what
has worked for me is to make space for the feelings.  I have ranted and cried a
LOT about the situation here.  So many levels of 'wrong' and 'hurting' for me as
well as for midwifery and hb families all...I have given it all it's due.  And
have decided--decide on a regular basis actually--that I'm not letting the
'wrong/hurting' aspects of this dictate my self-esteem, my enjoyment of life or
any of my choices from here on out. Except for recognizing when it comes to
choices, that is, that it's best to avoid talking to some people about it--best
to seek support where that might be found instead of banging my head against
brick walls trying to persuade anyone else to agree with me.

Anyway, sorry that this so OT in a way (being about 'mw trauma' not 'birth
trauma', LOL)  but I hope it's helpful anyway.

Maggie

--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "womynwyz1" <womynwise1@...> wrote:
>
> Gosh, Jenne--
>
> You said "the ones who that is happening to are the ones who are traditional
with mother midwives who holds a mother's ability to think for and consent of
her own free will sacrosanct. Unfortunately the medical and conventional
midwifery establishments don't agree."

I really really like your plan for the workshop!  It seems pretty
comprehensive-yet-concise; I especially like it that you are including something
affirmative and grounding at the end (by way of guided imagery for trauma
release).  I know from my one-to-one experiences in providing counseling for
homebirth cients with prior birth trauma, that it is so important to conclude
heavy emotional sessions with affirmation of some sort that helps bring mamas
into the present again, and more into their strength.

Maggie

--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "Lindsey" <lsplumer@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Dy,
> I'm doing my first workshop in December, so I can't tell you what to do from
experience, but what I'm doing an educational workshop.  I'm going to include
symptoms and causes of trauma, criteria for PTSD, difference between trauma and
postpartum depression, self-help ideas (exercise, nutrition, support groups,
journaling, nutrition, EFT, breastfeeding), professional treatments (medication,
psychotherapy, EMDR, etc.), when to seek professional help, have a time to share
stories and then do a guided imagery for releasing grief/trauma.  I'm going to
try and get doula CEUs and encourage doulas to come as a way to learn about
trauma and prevent vicarious trauma.  There has been some research that shows
that NICU nurses with unresolved birth trauma burn out fairly quickly and I'm
guessing the same would be true of doulas, too.  At the end of the workshop I'll
provide referrals to local self-help groups (free), low-cost/sliding scale
counseling, and regular counselors (myself included).  I'm guessing it will take
about 2.5 hours and I'm only charing $25 at this point.  I would love to hear
any suggestions people might have.  I get that a one time workshop won't cure
PTSD, but I'm hoping it will encourage women to learn more, effectively utilize
resources, and also there has been some research that shows that traumatized
people who share their stories with people who have gone through similar
situations actually have reduced trauma symptoms.
> Lindsey
>
>
>
> --- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "completebeginnings"
<completebeginnings@> wrote:
> >
> > Any one here run a local support group in their community for birth trauma?
How successful has it been? What guidelines do you follow? What can you do to
help? I am thinking of starting one where I live and practice but wanted some
guidelines. Thanks
> > Dy
> >
>

I am a moderator on the Mothers Board and a Project Coordinator for Solace for
Mothers. I am working along with Sharon Storton and Jenne Alderks to support
women with birth trauma, and work to prevent it from happening. I also am on the
subcommittee of The Birth Survey and have worked on that project for a number of
years, since before it launched. I'm the mother of two children, one of which
was born just three months ago - which is why I've been a bit too busy to
introduce myself! I just finished catching up on this group and am excited to
see all the discussion going on here.

I think having discussions prenatally is great advice and really necessary. But,
in hospital practices, I don't think it always helps to prevent birth trauma -
or even to identify if a certain practice isn't a good match. There are often
group practices of doctors now and the person just gets whoever is on call for
the birth. Even if someone is seeing a single doctor, they don't show up until
the end, so the laboring woman is really subjected to the hospital policies and
the nurses who are on call. And hospital based midwives in many states function
as groups, so a woman may have never met the midwife who attends her in labor.
For example, there are about 14 midwives in the practice that I used for my
traumatizing birth. Their practice is often recommended by a natural childbirth
organization in my state who host events for expecting parents to meet the
midwives and encourage them to use their practice for natural hospital birth. I
had met 4 of them at my prenatal appointments, and never had any reason to feel
that they were anything but naturally minded and willing to work with me and my
birth plan. But, during my last prenatal appointment the midwife, who I had seen
the most, stripped my membranes without my consent. Then at the birth 3 days
later, I had two midwives who I had never met before who did several things to
me without my informed consent - and in many cases as I screamed at them not to.
There was no way for me to have figured this out prenatally unless I had
interviewed all 14 midwives, and all of the labor and delivery nurses who worked
at that hospital - in both the midwife unit and the regular unit where I ended
up. Sadly, there aren't always warning signs beforehand.


--- In solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com, "Beth McAllister" <bethmcallister@...>
wrote:
>
> I think the question, "Do you view pregnancy and birth as a normal process or
an emergency in the making?" would tell us a lot.
>
> This is a really good question that I encourage parents to ask of their care
providers as early as they can, after encouraging them to explore their own
beliefs surrounding birth. If parents find themselves with an ob or mw who
aren't in line with their own beliefs, one of the possible results is ending up
in a situation where they need to advocate for themselves while in a potentially
vulnerable state. Not many families are willing or able to do this while
laboring, so it's best to ask these questions while they still have time to
switch providers, if necessary. Some parents, of course, choose not to leave the
care of a provider, for whatever reason, and that's fine too. But asking the
question and finding out ahead of time if they're on the same philosophical page
can be really helpful for both parents and care-givers, especially if some sort
of intervention or unexpected event occurs.
>
> Beth McAllister
> Birth Doula in Minneapolis
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Lindsey" <lsplumer@...>
> To: solacesupporters@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [solacesupporters] Re: What causes trauma?
> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 16:49:10 -0000
>
> <!--CTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dt--><span style="display:
none;"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--><div id="ygrp-mlmsg"
style="position: relative;"><div id="ygrp-msg" style="z-index:
1;"><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--><div id="ygrp-text"><p>My cynical answer is
I'm guessing the providers that care enough to take the self-quiz would already
be practicing compassionately, but I don't know if that's entirely fair. I think
a big problem is that many providers still view pregnancy and labor as medical
emergencies to "deliver" women from. With this view, a rude or misogynistic
provider can get away with all sorts of things if mom and baby survive even if
they're emotionally or physically traumatized. <br>My father in law is an ob
anesthesiologist and the head of obstetrics at a hospital. My mother in law is a
pediatrician with three really traumatic c-sections. When my husband and I chose
to use a midwife my mother in law practically had me arrested (she would've if
she could've). <br>My father in law has been more open to having discussions
about all of these issues...perhaps I should discuss this with him? I've heard
him make jokes about obstetric practices, incompetent docs, etc., and it's all
fun and games as long as the mom and baby survive-even if the incompetency means
serious birth injuries for mom or a c-section because they look at it as an
emergency anyways. <br>I will ask what he thinks and if the response seems
interesting I will post it here with his permission. I think the question, "Do
you view pregnancy and birth as a normal process or an emergency in the making?"
would tell us a lot. <br>Lindsey<br><br>--- In <a
href="mailto:solacesupporters%40yahoogroups.com">solacesupporters@...\
m</a>, "jenneology" jenneology@ wrote:<br>><br>> Lindsey, thanks for those
ideas! I'll be adding lateness, developing a relationship of trust and high turn
over to my list of things that can contribute to trauma. <br>> <br>> What
are your thoughts on a quiz/self-assessment that maternity providers could take
where they get evaluate their behaviors and action in regards to birth trauma?
Would they be honest with themselves? Would they get defensive? Could it be
helpful or more detrimental to publish this on our website? <br>> <br>>
<br>> Jenne<br>> Moderator and Project Coordinator of Solace for
Mothers<br>> <br><br></p></div><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--><div
style="height: 0px; color:
#fff;"></div><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--><!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--><\
!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--><!-- end group email --></html>
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>

So what you would like seen taught/discussed by an organization training
childbirth educators? I ask because I am helping write such a curriculum. This
is a nation wide curriculum. Thoughts?
Dy in Utah