Transcript of Larry King Live Mon. 9/27/04 Bob & Mary Schindler
(Terri's Parents) & Attny David C. Gibbs III

I will try to add my comments to this transcript in a future post as
soon as I can get to it.

If this gets cut off due to the length, look for the next part on my
next post.

SaveTerrisLife (Melissa Roxanne)


http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0409/27/lkl.00.html

Transcript of Larry King Live Mon. 9/27/04 Bob & Mary Schindler
(Terri's Parents) & Attny David C. Gibbs III

CNN LARRY KING LIVE

Interview With Mary, Robert Schindler

Aired September 27, 2004 - 21:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND
MAY BE UPDATED.


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, exclusive. In their first live interview
together since the Florida Supreme Court struck down the law keeping
their brain-damaged daughter alive, Terri Schiavo's parents, Mary and
Robert Schindler, speak out, on their life and death battle with
their son-in-law over the fate of their own flesh and blood. An
intense, emotional hour. Mary and Robert Schindler, exclusive, and
next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Get you up to date -- joining us, by the way, is David Gibbs. He's
also based in St. Petersburg, the attorney for the Schindlers. All
three flew out to be with us in Los Angeles.

Last week, the Florida Supreme Court unanimously, unanimously struck
down the state law that empowered Governor Jeb Bush to order Terri
Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted. Terri's feeding tube had been
removed at the behest of her husband. The GOP-controlled Florida
legislature then met in emergency session, passed a special law, and
it was that law that the Florida Supreme Court overturned.

Terri Schiavo, then age 26, collapsed at home on February 25, 14
years ago, 1990, when her heart temporarily stopped beating. A
temporary cut-off of oxygen to her brain left her brain damaged. She
is now 40 years old, and currently being cared for in a hospice.

On Thursday, there will be a hearing on the Schindlers' motion
challenging Michael's guardianship of Terri, and seeking to uphold
her religious liberty rights. By the way, Michael was with us on this
program October 27 of last year, and on some of the breaks you'll see
certain clips.

Where is the case right now, David?

DAVID GIBBS, SCHINDLERS' ATTORNEY: Thursday, we're going to go before
the judge, Larry, and we're going to ask for Terri's constitutional,
First Amendment rights to be protected. Very interestingly, after the
governor and the legislature passed what became known as Terri's Law,
the pope addressed this issue, speaking for Roman Catholics
nationwide, and said that withholding of food and water is not an
extraordinary medical act, and as good, practicing Catholic it would
be imperative that that be given as a natural course of taking care
of people. We're going to be before the court on Thursday asking the
judge to uphold not just Terri's religious liberty rights, but really
the religious liberty rights of all people.

KING: So this is a change from the law that they struck down? GIBBS:
A huge change. The law they struck down was where the governor
stepped in and he said through the legislature, I will be Terri's
guardian. And what the Florida Supreme Court said is, no, we believe
the courts have already looked at this, and on separation of powers
grounds struck they struck down Terri's Law.

KING: So you are now going this other route.

GIBBS: Yes, sir.

KING: How did you hear, Robert, about the Supreme Court's decision?
Where were you?

ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: I was home, and Mary was
working at the time. And our attorney -- another attorney called me
and advised me.

KING: Were you shocked?

R. SCHINDLER: Well, I was not shocked. And I had a somewhat of a sick
feeling in my stomach. I made the analogy would be like Barry Bonds
hitting a 500-foot home run in dead center field, and the umpire
calling it a foul ball. So that's how I felt.

KING: Do you think you have a good chance on Thursday with this new
idea, new motion?

R. SCHINDLER: I would hope so. I think we have very professional
attorneys, and they're putting a lot of time and effort into this.

KING: Mary, why do you want to keep Terri alive?

MARY SCHINDLER, MOTHER OF TERRI SCHIAVO: Why do I want to keep Terri
alive?

KING: In the condition, you know, we've seen her in, which she's been
in for all these years?

M. SCHINDLER: But Terri is not in the condition that they portray
her. Terri is a -- she's a happy, healthy -- I mean, she's healthy.
She's brain damaged, but she's healthy.

KING: She doesn't communicate, does she?

M. SCHINDLER: Yes, she does.

KING: How?

M. SCHINDLER: She tries very hard to talk to me. She tries. There's a
therapist, a speech therapist in Chicago that said that Terri, her
tapes of Terri that we took tapes, she's talking, but she just needs
some help with her vocal chords to get them, you know, where she can
form words.

KING: If all that's true, David, why not, if she can -- trying to
form words, if she appears happy, what's the problem?

GIBBS: What the problem is in this case is, Terri's husband, Michael,
is her guardian. And he has gone and gotten doctors to say that she's
in this persistent vegetative state, which in they're opinion means
that therapy is not going to help her. She's not brain dead, Larry.
It's very important to understand that distinction. A lot of people
get the idea that she's on a respirator, a ventilator. She's being
kept alive by machines.

KING: She's not.

GIBBS: Absolutely not. She's a totally...

KING: With brain dead, you'd probably favor letting someone go.

GIBBS: You could certainly argue that that would be appropriate,
because the machines are just keeping her alive. In this case,
Terri's alive. She's actually very spunky. She has kept herself alive
when feeding tubes and others have been removed.

And what has to happen is she cannot swallow. And so she needs food
and water assistance. And what the guardian is pushing for is to
remove that food and water and have her starve to death.

KING: And you're saying that's denying her constitutional rights,
even though she can't say it for herself?

GIBBS: Absolutely. We're stepping into Terri's shoes and saying that
that's taking away her rights to freedom of religion, as well as
life.

KING: If the situation is as you say it is, Robert, why is Michael
opposed?

R. SCHINDLER: That's a good question. We can't understand that.

KING: Were you ever close, you and Michael?

R. SCHINDLER: Initially, when this happened to Terri, Mary and
Michael were joined at the hip. And everything seemed to be going
proper until the malpractice medical...

KING: He filed a malpractice suit?

R. SCHINDLER: He filed for $20 million, and he was awarded a
million/four, plus another $250,000 in another settlement. And that
money was going to be for Terri's rehabilitation.

KING: You weren't opposed to the suit then, Mary?

M. SCHINDLER: No. No. Because...

KING: You feel that wrong things were done to Terri in the hospital,
wherever it happened, in the hospital, I guess, right?

M. SCHINDLER: Wrong things were done? KING: You think he had a
rightful suit?

M. SCHINDLER: Absolutely, absolutely, he had a rightful suit. But
after the money came in, then he wouldn't do anything.

KING: And what...

M. SCHINDLER: She hasn't had any therapy in over 12 years.

KING: What reason did Michael give you for changing his mind?

R. SCHINDLER: All he told me, I'm her husband, I make all decisions.

KING: That's all he said?

R. SCHINDLER: That was it.

M. SCHINDLER: That was that.

KING: What did he say to you, you were joined at the hip?

M. SCHINDLER: We were.

KING: What did he say to you?

M. SCHINDLER: He said, this is my wife, I will make the decisions,
and you have nothing to say about it.

KING: Do you see some hidden motive on Michael's part? Is there a
will? Is there...

R. SCHINDLER: Well, at one time, there was a tremendous amount of
money he would have inherited had she died. But that's since been
spent on the attorneys who are pursuing her death.

KING: So what's his point now?

R. SCHINDLER: It's a good question.

M. SCHINDLER: We don't know.

R. SCHINDLER: The most logical thing, we were just discussing it,
that we've had 8-year-old children who have found out about Terri's
case and they're asking the same question. Why would this man not,
you know, give Terri back to her parents? And that's...

KING: In other words, if he wanted to live, go on with his life.

M. SCHINDLER: He should...

KING: Perfectly understandably, he wanted to get divorced...

M. SCHINDLER: Right.

KING: ... wanted to remarry. M. SCHINDLER: Yes.

KING: Why not let her...

M. SCHINDLER: He has two children. That's right. I want her. I'm her
mother. I love her. Even if, you know, I would love to give her
therapy, but if I couldn't, she's just -- I'll take her home with me
now and take care of her for the rest of my life.

KING: David, if they're willing to do this and Michael's not in this
for any -- there's no more money to get, right?

GIBBS: That's correct. All the money's gone.

KING: All the money's gone. Excuse me. So what on Earth could be his
motive? He could leave, couldn't he?

GIBBS: That's the question everybody is asking.

KING: Anybody would grant him a divorce in this situation he's in?

GIBBS: He could relinquish his guardianship and say, I'm not in
charge of Terri anymore. He could file for divorce. We need to
understand, he has a girlfriend, he has two children. He's moved on
years ago with his life. And the Schindlers are saying, as mom and
dad, we don't want anything except our daughter. And we want to take
care of her. They had committed that they would do anything, if they
could just take their daughter home, they'll personally pay for that.
And why Michael won't let them do that, it's unimaginable. Young
children don't understand why he won't do that.

KING: We'll take a break. We'll be back with more. We'll be including
your calls. This is the first live appearance together of the
Schindlers since the decision of the Florida Supreme Court. David
Gibbs, their attorney, is with them.

Thursday night is the first of the presidential debates. We will
follow it at 8:00 Pacific time, 11:00 Eastern time. And among our
panelists will be two people who debated both of the participants,
former Governor William Weld of Massachusetts who had debates with
John Kerry; former Governor Ann Richards of Texas, who had debates
with George Bush. So both will be on Thursday night to look at people
they've debated. It's Thursday night, 11:00 Eastern. We'll be right
back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. SCHINDLER: Put your head back. Is that OK? Huh? How you feel? How
do you feel? How do you feel? How do you feel? Huh? What? That's my
girl.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL SCHIAVO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S HUSBAND: Her father and mother came
into the room and closed the door. And they asked the big question,
how much money am I going to get? I told him he wasn't going to get
any money.

KING: Out of the malpractice...

SCHIAVO: Out of the malpractice suit. Then he argued with me a little
while and then he pointed at Terri in her wheelchair and he
says, "how much am I going to get from her money?" And I said, "you
have to go talk to the courts about that."

KING: She got money, too?

SCHIAVO: Yes, Terri got money. From there it blew up, he wanted to go
out in the hall and have a fistfight. It was crazy. It was a little
crazy.

KING: Did it shock you?

SCHIAVO: No. Because he always wanted the money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Robert? Pretty damning stuff.

R. SCHINDLER: I know it is. It's kind of a smoke screen, the argument
that I had with Mr. Schiavo was for Terri's rehabilitation. Prior to
when the malpractice money came in we had a neurologist come in and
state that Terri could improve if she received some progressive
therapy. He promised before the malpractice trial that he would see
to that, see that would happen. When the money came in and he
received it, I think it was in January, he confined Terri to a
nursing home, he did not give her the advanced therapy. I had been
literally pleading with him, please.

KING: So that's what the argument was?

R. SCHINDLER: That's what it was about.

KING: You weren't making money?

R. SCHINDLER: No. It was about using...

M. SCHINDLER: We was supposed to go to Shands Hospital. He promised
us.

KING: Shands in Jacksonville?

M. SCHINDLER: Shands Hospital in Gainesville. That's where Terri
would go after he got the malpractice money. That's what the argument
was about. That's what Bob asked him for. Michael, please...

KING: So he was lying? M. SCHINDLER: Michael, please, are we going to
Gainesville?

KING: Where is she right now?

M. SCHINDLER: In a hospice. In Clearwater, Florida.

KING: With cancer patients and the like.

R. SCHINDLER: Everyone by her, they're all dying.

KING: She's in a room?

M. SCHINDLER: A four by four little room.

KING: Does she go out?

M. SCHINDLER: Never. She's not allowed.

KING: Do you get to see her?

R. SCHINDLER: We do now. There were times when we were prohibited
from seeing her.

M. SCHINDLER: Fifty days, we went without seeing her.

R. SCHINDLER: And we were banned from seeing our daughter. My
children had been banned from seeing her by the husband.

KING: And all the people working for you, the doctors and the others
are doing this gratis?

David, you're working for nothing?

GIBBS: That's correct.

KING: Why?

GIBBS: Because there's big issues involved, Larry. When you look at
the rights of a mom and dad to try to protect the life of their own
daughter, when you look at religious liberty rights, all people of
all faith, I'm a Baptist, the Schindlers are Catholic, people could
be Jewish or whatever faith. When we watch the state come in and try
to impose their belief on people that violates their religious
teaching, that's a huge concern.

And when you look at this, in this country, if you have law, one of
the core tenets of the founding fathers was to protect life. If we're
going to live in a country that says life is throw away, you can
dispose of the people that don't matter anymore, the disabled, you
look at people that say economically, these people can't contribute.
But I believe there's a God who puts those people in this world for
distinct reason, a purpose, a calling, and to let people come in and
say some people aren't worth living, that's a battle that we'll
fight.

KING: Do you know she's not in pain?

M. SCHINDLER: No. You know.

KING: She could be in pain?

M. SCHINDLER: She's in pain when she gets like the time of the month.
I mean, she's not in pain otherwise.

KING: You know that there's no need to give her morphine?

M. SCHINDLER: No.

KING: There's no pain involved in this illness?

R. SCHINDLER: She expresses pain. She'll let you know when she's
hurting or...

M. SCHINDLER: They give her Tylenol.

R. SCHINDLER: An example, the...

KING: She gets headaches?

GIBBS: That's correct.

R. SCHINDLER: The caretakers tell us that when they do put her in a
chair and they will say, Terri's been in the chair too long, we have
to put her back in bed because she lets us know she's been in the
chair too long.

KING: Does her husband see her a lot?

R. SCHINDLER: I have no idea.

KING: Do you talk to him at all? You'll see him in court Thursday,
right? Will he be in court Thursday?

R. SCHINDLER: Probably not. He sends his lawyers. They would be glad
to talk to him but he refuses to speak other than through his legal
counsel.

KING: Did you know you had a tough case with the Florida supreme
court?

GIBBS: Yes, sir. And please realize, we tried to intervene into that
case on behalf of Bob and Mary and we were denied that opportunity
and so the governor was defending the law. We were cooperating with
his lawyers but we weren't actually in that case. But a lot of legal
scholars were concerned that what the legislature did might create
constitutional trouble. Now we have real profound gratitude because
if it weren't for the legislators, if it weren't for the governor, if
it weren't for the hundreds of thousands of Florida citizens who
said, you know, Terri is a life worth protecting, Terri's Law would
have been passed and we wouldn't have had these opportunities to
raise these issues...

KING: The court wasn't saying she shouldn't live, the court was
saying the governor had no right to do what he did? GIBBS: That's
correct. It was on pure constitutional principles.

KING: And that's what they're there for.

GIBBS: Yes, sir.

KING: Call me Larry.

GIBBS: I will.

KING: So that was the grounds. Do you think you're on solid ground
Thursday?

GIBBS: I believe so. Because what the court says if there's any
significant change in circumstance that the courts are obligated to
look at this situation. When you have someone's faith and the highest
elected leader of that religion says it would be inappropriate, it
would be wrong, it would be morally obligatory to give food and water
to this individual, and when the courts look at that, I think they're
going to have to deal with that issue and we're very hopeful.

KING: But this pope has also said it's morally wrong to have capital
punishment and states still do that so...

GIBBS: But we're walking behind the First Amendment that says in this
country your religious liberty needs to be given the highest possible
status. And when someone like Terri can't speak for herself, they
have to, in a measure, look into her mind and say how would she
respond.

KING: Do you have other children, Bob?

R. SCHINDLER: We have two boys. Terri has a brother that's a year
difference, Bobby Junior and Suzanne, who is three years younger.

KING: Are they close?

R. SCHINDLER: Oh, my gosh, yes.

KING: Do they go see her?

M. SCHINDLER: All the time. They're there while we're here.

KING: You were in business in Philadelphia. Is that where Terri grew
up? This was her first marriage?

R. SCHINDLER: Yes.

KING: There were no children of that marriage?

R. SCHINDLER: No.

KING: So what's it like for you when you see her?

R. SCHINDLER: I think any father or any parent that has a child that
knows that child can be helped and I'm not permitted to do anything
to help her, that breaks my heart.

M. SCHINDLER: It's like that night I watched -- I watched Pat Boone's
grandson on your show for two nights and I'm sitting at home,
thinking that could be my Terri because she could...

KING: He fell through a skylight window and paralyzed and they never
thought he'd...

M. SCHINDLER: They had such therapy for him, wonderful therapy and
that's what Terri was supposed to get. When that lawsuit was settled,
she's supposed to get this intensive therapy.

KING: Do you believe that if that money had been spent on therapy,
she would be better today?

M. SCHINDLER: Absolutely.

R. SCHINDLER: It's not us making...

M. SCHINDLER: Right away. If she'd have got help right away...

R. SCHINDLER: She was improving. She was talking. She was saying, no,
she was saying stop, she was saying mommy.

KING: We'll take a break and be right back with the Schindler's and
David Gibbs, we'll also be including your phone calls on this edition
of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

R. SCHINDLER: The one eye rolls in on her. Doesn't it? That one eye
rolls in on you? Do you remember that? We used to laugh at that.

Used to get mommy all upset when you did that to her?

You take your eye and let it roll to the side.

You remember?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Did she ever speak since 1990?

SCHIAVO: Terri has never has spoke a word.

KING: So, various types of rehab conducted?

SCHIAVO: Right. When I brought her back from California, I put her in
a rehab called Mediplex in Bradenton, Florida. They deal only with
head injury, spine injury patients. They worked extensively. They had
physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, recreational
therapy. They worked extensively with Terri.

KING: Nothing?

SCHIAVO: Nothing. Her mother and father were there and they heard
this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Is that true, Mary?

M. SCHINDLER: That's true. Absolutely. It's not true what he's saying
about nothing. She was improving. I was with him every day. We went
to classes to learn how to help Terri. She was saying, no, she was
saying stop, she was saying mom.

R. SCHINDLER: It's in her medical records she was improving.

M. SCHINDLER: It's in her medical records at Mediplex.

R. SCHINDLER: That's kind of a...

KING: Did she fall? What happened? Was she injured?

GIBBS: They don't know, Larry, exactly what happened, but there was
severe...

KING: Who was with her?

GIBBS: She was home alone with just Michael, and there was a severe
deprivation of oxygen from the brain. What caused that deprivation no
one knows. But for a period her brain was oxygen starved and that
created the damage.

KING: The doctors guessed?

GIBBS: What they talked about was a strange potassium deficiency or
other things, but it really is anybody's guess. And the Schindler's
have had doctors who offered to review all the records and to go back
and really try to recreate what happened on that night to help others
and the records have been sealed by Michael.

KING: Is that the way Mary looked before the accident?

M. SCHINDLER: Terri.

R. SCHINDLER: No, that's Terri.

KING: Terri. I mean, Terri.

M. SCHINDLER: Yes. That's the way -- yes.

KING: Let's take a call up Alabama. Hello.

CALLER: Hello. Yes, I lost a son eight years ago in a car accident,
and I would just like to -- I know how they feel. But I'd like to
know why he doesn't get a divorce and go on with his life and let the
parents have their daughter back.

KING: No one knows the answer.

GIBBS: That's everybody's question. I mean, for little children -- my
daughter walked up to me and said, daddy, why won't he let the mommy
and daddy take care of her.

KING: Now, I must have asked in October, I don't remember, we do a
lot of interviews.

What did he say that night? Why does he want to let her die?

R. SCHINDLER: I know what the standard answer is, he's honoring her
wishes.

KING: Oh. Based on?

R. SCHINDLER: That Terri.

M. SCHINDLER: What she told him.

R. SCHINDLER: Apparently -- well apparently what he said was back
when she was 21-years-old, that she had made an oral end of life
declaration. And...

KING: Were you aware of that?

R. SCHINDLER: No. We never were. It was contrary -- totally contrary

KING: Catholic beliefs.

M. SCHINDLER: And to Terri. She would never...

R. SCHINDLER: It wasn't Terri. And all her girlfriends, everybody
that knew Terri said, Terri would never do that. But the husband made
that claim and then brought his brother and sister-in-law in to
corroborate that.

KING: Lake Ariel, Pennsylvania. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: My heart goes out to the Schindler's and to Terri, and I
support you 100 percent and support Terri as well. I also wanted to
ask the lawyer, are there any cases other than Terri that this has
been documented where there was a patient allowed to starve to death
like this?

Because I think it's horrendous.

KING: David.

GIBBS: Yes. There are cases where people are allowed to make that
choice for themselves, Larry. What happens is they have to have it
clearly spelled out in writing ahead of time. They have to leave a
living will that says, I want the with holding of food and water.
Where it becomes a very big issue, is when there is no written
declaration. And in this instance allegedly, Terri might have at one
time watching TV, said I don't know if I want to live like that. And
to have a court go back in and try to interpret what that means is
very, very difficult.

KING: You're asking for guardianship?

M. SCHINDLER: Yes.

KING: Why won't he give it?

GIBBS: All they want is their daughter back. They're not asking for
money from him or from anybody, let them take care of their daughter.

M. SCHINDLER: I don't know why.

KING: If. If he said OK, would you let him see her as much as he
wanted?

R. SCHINDLER: Of course.

M. SCHINDLER: Sure.

KING: No doubt about it. So, there's no...

R. SCHINDLER: There's no restriction, no.

M. SCHINDLER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) He can see her when ever he wants.

R. SCHINDLER: All we want from day one is to try and help Terri.
That's all our motivation and our (UNINTELLIGIBLE) .

M. SCHINDLER: Love her.

KING: Colorado Springs, hello.

CALLER: Hello. Yes. My question is if we treat animals this way, it's
called cruel and inhumane treatment. So, that's my question and my
discussion with this whole thing is, -- what I don't understand is
there a possibility her husband is wanting to make additional money,
maybe a book or movie after the fact?

GIBBS: Could well be. Again, the motivation are unknown to us. But
she's absolutely right, if you were to take a dog, you were to take a
horse or some livestock, say we're just going to ignore it, we're not
going to feed it, we're going to not give it water, we're going to
let it die of dehydration...

KING: It would be cruelty to animals.

GIBBS: ... it would be cruelty to animals. You'd be arrested. M.
SCHINDLER: They'd go to prison. But yet Terri can be allowed to
starve to death. You've never seen anything like it, Larry, in your
life, as a mother watching your child starve to death.

R. SCHINDLER: We went through that two times.

M. SCHINDLER: Two times.

KING: When, when they stopped food?

M. SCHINDLER: Both times.

KING: How many days?

M. SCHINDLER: The first time was 60 days. I'm sorry, 60 hours, the
second time was seven days. She is a strong girl.

KING: Did she nearly die in seven days?

M. SCHINDLER: Well, yes, she was close it to.

R. SCHINDLER: But they wouldn't let us in the room by ourselves with
her. There were police outside of her room, there were police in her
room.

M. SCHINDLER: There was Michael's representatives in her room. I
didn't have one second alone with her while she was dying.

KING: This really does sound weird, David?

GIBBS: Yes, sir. Absolutely.

R. SCHINDLER: When Mary went to go to Terri people would literally
jump. The police would move to stop her.

KING: Fearing she'd do what?

R. SCHINDLER: I have no idea.

(CROSSTALK)

GIBBS: They were fearful somebody might actually try to feed her or
keep her alive. I don't know what their fear was, but they were...

R. SCHINDLER: They denied her communion as a Catholic.

KING: They did?

M. SCHINDLER: Yes.

R. SCHINDLER: They would not give her the last rites.

KING: We take a break and be back with more of your phone calls.
Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open yours up. Open your eyes.
Terri, open your eyes. There you go. Good. Good job! Good job, young
lady! Good job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHIAVO: This is Terri's wish, and I'm going to follow that wish if
it's the last thing I can do for Terri. I love Terri deeply, and I'm
going to follow it up for Terri.

KING: How old was she when this happened?

SCHIAVO: Twenty-five.

KING: A 25-year-old said to you, if I die, if I'm in this kind of
state -- most 25-year-olds wouldn't think of something like that.

SCHIAVO: It was a comment from watching certain programs. She said --
we were watching some programs, and she said, I don't want to -- I
don't want anything artificial like that. I don't want any tubes.
Don't let me live like that. I don't want to be a burden to anybody.
She's also made comments to other people about different stories.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: We are back with Mary and Robert Schindler. They are Terri
Schiavo's parents, and David Gibbs, the attorney for the Schindlers.
A new motion will be introduced on Thursday, counteracting -- well,
not differing with the Florida Supreme Court, just going another
route, dealing with the First Amendment and the recent statements by
the pope speaking out for the first time on this issue of feeding.
The pope was saying in essence that feeding is a medical issue?

GIBBS: What the pope said is providing food and water is not a
medical act. It's not an extraordinary, a life-preserving measure,
and that you have to provide food and water as a clearly decent act.

KING: I see. Not a medical act. It is not a medical act?

GIBBS: That's correct.

KING: Charlotte, North Carolina. By the way, I have got bronchitis,
and that's some of the reasons you hear -- maybe you hear a cough
during the background. I'm hanging tough.

Charlotte -- because that's what we do in this business, right? The
show must go on, or as someone once said, why?

Charlotte, North Carolina, hello.

CALLER: Larry.

KING: Yeah.

CALLER: Thank you for taking my call.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: One brief comment, and then my question. In 1991, my father
was having an operation, and he became brain dead on the table. And
he was put on a trach, and we had to decide eventually if we were
going to remove him, which we did.

My situation is very different from Terri's folks, but still, it
brings back a lot of memories.

KING: Yeah. What's the question?

CALLER: The question is, I noticed that she opened her eyes -- it was
very, very hard for her to do, but she opened her eyes when someone
asked her to just a few minutes ago on film. Could they not ask her
to blink her eyes, maybe four or five times in succession if she
wanted to die, so that she -- her mother says that she can
communicate somewhat.

KING: A very good question. David, is there a way to ask her
questions?

GIBBS: And the answer at this point is unknown. Until professionals
have an opportunity to rehabilitate her, you can't know for sure what
a response may or may not mean in terms of four or five blinks, one
means yes, one means no. Plus, if somebody says I want to die, that
doesn't mean right then you take them out and kill them. I mean,
certainly through starvation or dehydration -- sometimes people can
have some difficult medical situations, and in love as a family, you
pull around them and you help them through those difficult moments. I
certainly sympathize with someone that has to deal with someone who
is brain dead and kept alive by machines.

KING: Is she fed intravenously?

GIBBS: No.

M. SCHINDLER: No.

GIBBS: It's through a tube, and it goes right into her stomach.

R. SCHINDLER: Yeah, can I elaborate on what she was talking about
that?

KING: Sure.

R. SCHINDLER: In November, I guess it would be two years now, I had
Terri on a cell phone, talking with a therapist out in Texas, who
will, by the way, testify in the court on what happened, and I was
sitting there, watching, and I saw Terri, and she was sitting in a
chair, literally get out of her chair, where I reached over and I
pulled her back in the chair. And I got on the phone, I said, what in
the world did you say to this girl? And he said, I said to her that
if you don't get up out of your chair, they're going to kill you. And
she tried to get out of the chair. And that can be documented.

KING: So the husband's only argument is he's proving a point because
she said at age 25 she didn't want to be kept alive artificially.

GIBBS: Watching some program. And Larry, interesting, when she made
that comment, if it was made, but he says it was made, that was
against Florida law at that time. You could not withhold basic food
and water in 1990 when that comment was allegedly made. So what he's
asking everyone to believe is that she made a comment "I would want
to be killed" even in violation of Florida law. And I really think a
25- year-old isn't thinking about being starved to death and making a
casual comment.

KING: Beautiful couple, too. Groton, Connecticut, hello.

CALLER: Yes, hello, Larry, thank you for taking my call.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: I'm a mother of five young children. My second child is 14,
and he's multi-handicapped. And doctors at Yale University told us
that he would never do anything in his life, take him home and take
care of him and love him, he would never do anything.

Well, my son is just -- he's very small. He's undiagnosed, but with
great therapy, he's doing phenomenal things. He's non-verbal, but he
communicates in other ways. I feel so bad for the Schindlers.

KING: You have a question?

CALLER: Yes, I do. I have a fear that if something happens to Terri
and people like her, what will happen to my son. My question is, is
anyone aware of any kind of agenda moving the husband to take her
life so it will be easier for other children like my son to be
disposed of?

KING: David?

GIBBS: Absolutely. There's an agenda.

KING: He's part of a group or a...?

GIBBS: I don't know. I believe there's a movement. They argue in the
court that economically Terri is of no value. And if someone can't...

KING: They say that?

GIBBS: Absolutely, that economically, she costs too much to keep her
alive, and she can't contribute. And what you have is a very
dangerous way of thinking, Larry. It's very similar to what happened
over in Nazi Germany, where all of a sudden the government and others
began to say who should live, who shouldn't. And you know, America
was founded as a nation that said, we're going to protect life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

KING: But the parents are willing to absorb the costs?

GIBBS: They're willing to do it personally, at great sacrifice, as
well as the brother and sister, Bobby Jr. and Susanne. They said if
anything happens to mom and dad, we will personally take care of our
sister. That's family.

R. SCHINDLER: We filed affidavits to do that.

KING: I'm trying to figure out the argument.

GIBBS: We have been doing the same thing for all these years.

M. SCHINDLER: A long time.

GIBBS: It makes no sense. Children are asking the question. You're
asking it. Everybody wants to know.

KING: What about others -- are the disabled involved in this in any
way?

GIBBS: They're very terrified. They've been huge supporters of Terri
and the Schindlers.

M. SCHINDLER: A lot of groups.

GIBBS: And they're very concerned, because if the law turns to where
those that can't contribute or those that carry disabilities are put
in some jeopardy, as this mother testifying about her 14-year-old,
what a wonderful thing, with her getting him therapy -- but if
somebody else were to step in and say, you know what, that boy,
because he can't speak, is a life not worth having, we disagree with
that. That's why I'm in this case. Life needs to be protected in this
country.

KING: Santa Monica, California, hello.

CALLER: First, I want to say to the Schindlers, the love for your
daughter radiates through the screen. I'm personally making my
comments based on a very similar situation. Twenty-two months ago
today my 10-year-old son had a battle with leukemia for 14 months. We
had an accident on the day of discharge, and we were on our way going
home when there was no brain activity whatsoever. The hardest
decision I ever made in my life was to say no respirator, no
ventilator, because quality of life is everything for us.

When I look at you and I look at the pictures of your beautiful
daughter, I cannot imagine what you are feeling with the decision to
continue on and tell me, in your opinion, how do you determine
quality of life for Terri, because my heart, I could have never taken
my son off ever. I would have backed you 100 percent, but I look at
quality of life and that's everything.

KING: Fair question. Bob? What quality of life does she have?

R. SCHINDLER: The quality of life that she has that she get some
enjoyment from her family. But there's the potential for her
improvement is great as we're being told by these doctors.

KING: The doctors tell you that?

R. SCHINDLER: Absolutely.

KING: If there were no potential for improvement, you'd have to
consider this lady's call, wouldn't you?

M. SCHINDLER: I would never ever in 100 years starve my child to
death. Ever.

KING: Never?

M. SCHINDLER: Never. There is no mother in this world that would
starve your child to death. It's the most horrendous thing you've
ever seen in your life.

R. SCHINDLER: To starve anybody to death. To stand there and watch a
person starving to death is ghoulish. To see -- I don't care who it
was, if it was -- talking earlier, an animal, I couldn't do it.

M. SCHINDLER: My Terri has so much to give. If this is where she is
going to be without any rehab, I can't wait to get her home.

KING: We'll be back with more moments and more calls. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. SCHINDLER: To momma. To momma. What, baby? It's OK. It's OK. Mommy
loves you. Mommy loves you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has nothing to gain. He's not going to receive
a penny upon Terri's death

KING: No insurance here?

M. SCHIAVO: There's no money, there's no insurance. There's probably
about $50,000 left in her estate. I will not receive a penny from
this. Now what's funny about this, back about two years, the
Schindlers offered me $700,000 to walk away.

KING: They have that kind of money?

M. SCHIAVO: They get money from the right wing activists, the right
to life groups. (CROSSTALK)

KING: The right to life group is willing to pay you 700,000 to walk
away?

M. SCHIAVO: Right.

And two years ago, I offered what was left of Terri's money to
charity three times and the Schindlers refused to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Robert.

R. SCHINDLER: The -- his offer to donate Terri's money to charity
came after a guardian ad litem made a recommendation to the court to
disregard the petition to stop Terri's feeding.

KING: Did you offer him $700,000.

R. SCHINDLER: Yes.

KING: You did?

R. SCHINDLER: Yes.

KING: You got paid by a right wing group?

R. SCHINDLER: No. It was just -- a number was floated out there to
see...

KING: You were willing to pay that, though?

R. SCHINDLER: We would have, yes.

KING: It's not mercenary then, David? He could have taken the 700 and
ran? So what's his point?

GIBBS: We're not sure, Larry. We don't know. When we look at this
situation, it would be so easy for him to get on with his life. He
has two children, he has a new girlfriend. He could, with one stroke
of the pen, one signature, he can get on with his life and let these
parents take care of his daughter.

KING: Is there a concern that if something happened to the two of
you, the state would have to take care of Terri?

M. SCHINDLER: No. Well, unless my daughter and my son would get
custody.

R. SCHINDLER: No. They have -- my son and daughter, both of them have
made that request to be the guardian.

M. SCHINDLER: They would be fighting Michael. The two of them would
be fighting instead of us. GIBBS: You have to look at these quality
of life issues and you have to ask yourself, who is in the place to
make these determinations? We believe that God is the giver and taker
of life. For us as mere men, mere mortals to walk around and say that
your life is worth living and someone else isn't is a profound
arrogance.

KING: But you do agree there are some cases where plugs are pulled?

GIBBS: Plugs are pulled when the machine is keeping the person alive.
As you can see on the video footage, Terri is very much alive.

KING: She's not attached to anything?

GIBBS: She's not attached to anything. She just needs help. She can't
swallow food and water. And so she needs help. You could, instead of
using a tube, you could have a nurse stand over Terri and drip feed
food down her throat. You have to be real careful that she doesn't
asphyxiate or have difficulty with aspiration. But they use a tube
because that's the cleanest and safest way to do it but to get the
food and water into her system, that's the only assistance she needs.

KING: What's her life expectancy?

M. SCHINDLER: It was 50 years. Fifty or more years.

R. SCHINDLER: They had an actuary testify at the malpractice, that's
why they won up to $20 million.

KING: And he said she had 50 more years?

R. SCHINDLER: He recited his wedding vows at that malpractice trial.

KING: Tampa, Florida, hello.

CALLER: Yes, Larry. First, I find it amazing that society seems to
put more effort into finding humane ways to kill convicted murderers
than actually something as far as starvation as a solution for Terri.
My question as far as the parents, what speculation is there as far
as that he's actually involved in Terri's condition and do you see
that as the reason why he's not (UNINTELLIGIBLE) rehabilitation?

KING: There's the fear that she might accuse him of having something
if she were able to speak? That's just pure speculation?

R. SCHINDLER: No way we could know that.

KING: Littleton, Colorado, hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. God bless you. I'd like to ask Mr. and Mrs.
Schindler if they believe in divine healing?

KING: Divine healing. R. SCHINDLER: I believe that God heals.

KING: That's divine healing.

R. SCHINDLER: I believe in God.

M. SCHINDLER: Absolutely.

R. SCHINDLER: We've seen miracles.

M. SCHINDLER: We've seen miracles with Terri.

KING: So it would not shock you if Terri spoke tomorrow?

R. SCHINDLER: No.

M. SCHINDLER: No.

KING: We'll be back with our remaining moments with the Schindlers
and David Gibbs. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look here. Look here. Follow it. Follow it. OK.
Look up here again. OK. I see. OK. Now, Terri, Terri, look at me.
Look at me over here. No. Over here, Terri. Try and look at me. I
understand. One eye is further out, the right eye is further out than
the left. So if she looks this way, the right eye has a tendency to
be further over toward me. Look at me over here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: That's young Terri Schindler. She would later be Terri Schiavo.
Schiavo.

Meadville, Pennsylvania. Wow. Hello.

CALLER: Hey, Larry. Love your show.

KING: Hi. Thank you.

CALLER: My question to the Schindlers is, was there ever a police
investigation conducted into the circumstances of Terri's
predicament?

R. SCHINDLER: The police report was recommended to be sent to the
homicide division. It's right on the police report.

KING: And?

R. SCHINDLER: To be routed to homicide, and it was never
investigated. And we tried to file a report with the police
department when we discovered all this, what we felt was
incriminating evidence, circumstantial evidence, and they refused to
accept a report from us.

KING: How long have you been involved in this case, David?

GIBBS: Working with a team of lawyers, and the battle's been going on
14 years. I've been involved in the last three.

KING: How are you going to do Thursday?

GIBBS: Well, we're praying, and we're hoping, because we're getting
down to where it's the two-minute drill, to use football analogy, and
we got to score a touchdown.

Btu we believe the law's on our side. We believe it's right. We
believe we're standing for the right thing and we're hoping that if
given the opportunity, the Florida courts will agree.

KING: If God forbid you lose, would you be there when she dies?

R. SCHINDLER: We'd do it again. We'll be with her.

M. SCHINDLER: Yes. Every step of the way.

R. SCHINDLER: What happened is -- when we were denied visitation,
because we were accused of harming Terri back in -- it was in March,
and the husband denied us visitation for two months.

M. SCHINDLER: That's the longest we've ever gone.

R. SCHINDLER: And we've never gone that long not seeing Terri, but
we'll be with her.

M. SCHINDLER: Absolutely.

KING: I thank you very much for coming, for flying here across the
country, out of hurricaneville in Florida and for...

M. SCHINDLER: Thank you for having us.

KING: ... making the presentation you made tonight.

R. SCHINDLER: Thank you.

M. SCHINDLER: Thank you.

KING: It's been extraordinary.

R. SCHINDLER: I thank you very much.

GIBBS: Appreciate your grace.

KING: We talked about death tonight. We had to talk about the death
of Kaye Coleman on Friday. And a great man died over the weekend,
Marvin Davis. He was a dear friend, a great, great businessman, but
most of all, a family man. Marvin Davis loved Barbara and he loved
his family. Sure, he was worth $5 billion. Sure, he had an immense
house and all these friends and business deals all over the world.
But when it came down to the crux of it, Marvin Davis cared about the
people he cared about the most, those closest to him, all the
Davises.

At his funeral yesterday, they had written in the memorial service
something written by Sir Laurence Olivier. I thought it appropriate
to read to you tonight. This by Sir Olivier.

"Death is nothing at all. I have only slipped away into the next
room. I am I and you are you. Whoever we were to each other we are
still. Call me by my old familiar name, speak to me the easy way you
always did. Put no difference into your tone, wear no forced air or
solemnity or sorrow. Laugh as we always laughed at the little jokes
that we enjoyed together. Play, smile, think of me, pray for me. Let
my name be forever the household word that it always was. Let it be
spoken without effect, without the ghost of a shadow on it. Life
means all that it ever meant. It is the same as it ever was,
absolutely unbroken continuity.

What is death but a negligible accident? Why should I be out of my
mind because I am out of sight? I am but waiting for you, for an
interval, somewhere very near, just around the corner."

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Tomorrow night, the Peterson case. The prosecution may end on
Thursday.

Thursday night, we're on at 11:00 Eastern, with our follow-up to the
presidential debate. At 12:00 Eastern, we'll be followed by Aaron
Brown, who'll be right here with us in Los Angeles, because Aaron
Brown is doing a California/West Coast/North/South sweep this week.
And he's in Seattle. Look at him. His favorite city, Seattle,
Washington. Aaron Brown comes home.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE
OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0409/27/lkl.00.html