He says some people's vessels are like that.

I never knew when I started that it might not

work! It's not a question of me needing

a few more treatments than someone else- it just doesn't

work on me so I wasted $1500.

If I had been told that there was a possibility I would have asked

in what percentage of cases does it not work. I was

told 4-5 treatments and I would only start to see

improvement after the second one. I had prepaid the 4th

as part of a package and can't get a refund. Not only did

it not work on the rosacea on my cheeks but my face is

blotchier than ever. It made the very light pigmentation

patches I had even darker so he sprayed them with something

to make them form a scab and fall off. But he couldn't

spray my whole face so I'm left with a more uneven complexion

than before. I'm still waiting to see the results of the spray.

I got a second opinion from 2 dermatologists at a teaching

hospital and they say that he used the best laser and

some people don't respond. I asked  what percentage of patients

it doesn't respond and he said there have been no studies done

so he couldn't say. He said they could try treatments

on the rosacea  with a Perfecta laser (very expensive, only

2 in Canada) but I might not know if it works until 7 treatments

($600 x 7 = $4200). I don't want to have the 4th prepaid IPL treatment

because it doesn't work on the vessels and I don't want my skin

pigmentation problem to get worse. He thinks I should have the 4th IPL

because it "always makes your skin look better and you can never have

enough of them."I feel taken. I only joined

the support group today after receiving the 2nd opinion.

who is your doctor that did this/



toronto06240 <toronto06240@...> wrote:          He says some people's

vessels are like that.

I never knew when I started that it might not

work! It's not a question of me needing

a few more treatments than someone else- it just doesn't

work on me so I wasted $1500.

If I had been told that there was a possibility I would have asked

in what percentage of cases does it not work. I was

told 4-5 treatments and I would only start to see

improvement after the second one. I had prepaid the 4th

as part of a package and can't get a refund. Not only did

it not work on the rosacea on my cheeks but my face is

blotchier than ever. It made the very light pigmentation

patches I had even darker so he sprayed them with something

to make them form a scab and fall off. But he couldn't

spray my whole face so I'm left with a more uneven complexion

than before. I'm still waiting to see the results of the spray.

I got a second opinion from 2 dermatologists at a teaching

hospital and they say that he used the best laser and

some people don't respond. I asked what percentage of patients

it doesn't respond and he said there have been no studies done

so he couldn't say. He said they could try treatments

on the rosacea with a Perfecta laser (very expensive, only

2 in Canada) but I might not know if it works until 7 treatments

($600 x 7 = $4200). I don't want to have the 4th prepaid IPL treatment

because it doesn't work on the vessels and I don't want my skin

pigmentation problem to get worse. He thinks I should have the 4th IPL

because it "always makes your skin look better and you can never have

enough of them."I feel taken. I only joined

the support group today after receiving the 2nd opinion.













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Hi,



A warm welcome to the group, although I'm very sorry that you're joining in

such circumstances.



I don't think we've ever seen any proper statistics, but it has been said

that possibly up to 10% or 20% of rosaceans turn out to be

"treatment-resistant" when it comes to IPL and lasers, and it is impossible

to know in advance who will fall into that category. That's the great risk

when paying in advance for a block of cheaper treatments.



With luck, the spray your doctor used might make an appreciable difference

to your pigmented patches.



> He said they could try treatments on the rosacea with a Perfecta laser ...

<

&

> "He thinks I should have the 4th IPL because it "always makes your skin

look better and you can never have enough of them." <



Were you quoting your original doctor, or one of the two derms who supplied

a second opinion?



If it is the former, does he have access to the Perfecta laser? (Even if he

doesn't own it, perhaps he could make some kind of deal with the people who

do.) Is there no way he can be talked into one free treatment on that to see

if it will reverse problems attributed to the Lumenis?



As for saying that IPL "always makes your skin look better and you can never

have enough of them", that does seem to be the experience of most people,

with or without rosacea, hence its popularity with the 'instant makeover' TV

shows, and Lumenis seems to be generally regarded as the best. (I've never

tried any of them, so have no personal views on the subject.)



Sorry, but I can't think of anything else that might help. :(



Kind regards, and best of luck!



Aurelia

Well I am in the same boat..



I had 3 IPLs with a photoderm with no improvement.

I then had 4 IPls with a different DR and a Lumenis One and still no

improvement. I actually look worse. My DR advised me to continue. He

stated some people just take longer to respond. I am going to have

one or two more IPLs to see if anything good happens. Some DRs refer

to "laser resistance" as meaning you need more treatments before you

will respond. Others imply that you just won't respond. I guess I

will keep trying...





Ken



--- In rosacea-support@yahoogroups.com, "toronto06240"

<toronto06240@...> wrote:

>

> He says some people's vessels are like that.

> I never knew when I started that it might not

> work! It's not a question of me needing

> a few more treatments than someone else- it just doesn't

> work on me so I wasted $1500.

> If I had been told that there was a possibility I would have asked

> in what percentage of cases does it not work. I was

> told 4-5 treatments and I would only start to see

> improvement after the second one. I had prepaid the 4th

> as part of a package and can't get a refund. Not only did

> it not work on the rosacea on my cheeks but my face is

> blotchier than ever. It made the very light pigmentation

> patches I had even darker so he sprayed them with something

> to make them form a scab and fall off. But he couldn't

> spray my whole face so I'm left with a more uneven complexion

> than before. I'm still waiting to see the results of the spray.

> I got a second opinion from 2 dermatologists at a teaching

> hospital and they say that he used the best laser and

> some people don't respond. I asked  what percentage of patients

> it doesn't respond and he said there have been no studies done

> so he couldn't say. He said they could try treatments

> on the rosacea  with a Perfecta laser (very expensive, only

> 2 in Canada) but I might not know if it works until 7 treatments

> ($600 x 7 = $4200). I don't want to have the 4th prepaid IPL

treatment

> because it doesn't work on the vessels and I don't want my skin

> pigmentation problem to get worse. He thinks I should have the 4th

IPL

> because it "always makes your skin look better and you can never

have

> enough of them."I feel taken. I only joined

> the support group today after receiving the 2nd opinion.

>

--- In rosacea-support@yahoogroups.com, "toronto06240"



I was also told that I was laser resistant after vbeam kept my

disease in remission for a year and then stopped working. Prior to

that I failed IPL. Then I failed with Dr. Darm and a Doc using the

yag only. I was lucky that a lot of that time my insurance was

covering. Still lots of money down the drain. You might want to try

the vbeam, it has been very helpful to some. In my case I am

currently having some luck with cynosure- combination pulsed dye

laser and yag. Painful, slow, expensive (doc will only bill as

cosmetic)but after 2 treatments I have seen improvement. I have

severe flushing and redness.Both have been reduced and I'm trying to

be hopeful.Unfortunately this is a very difficult disease. I always

get a little depressed when someone posts great success after one

series of treatments-many of us are just not that lucky.Don't give up

hope.In my humble opinion you should not have any more treatments

with this laser- call it a loss and move on to something else. Don't

give up hope.

Arlene

Arlene





<toronto06240@...> wrote:

>

> He says some people's vessels are like that.

> I never knew when I started that it might not

> work! It's not a question of me needing

> a few more treatments than someone else- it just doesn't

> work on me so I wasted $1500.

> If I had been told that there was a possibility I would have asked

> in what percentage of cases does it not work. I was

> told 4-5 treatments and I would only start to see

> improvement after the second one. I had prepaid the 4th

> as part of a package and can't get a refund. Not only did

> it not work on the rosacea on my cheeks but my face is

> blotchier than ever. It made the very light pigmentation

> patches I had even darker so he sprayed them with something

> to make them form a scab and fall off. But he couldn't

> spray my whole face so I'm left with a more uneven complexion

> than before. I'm still waiting to see the results of the spray.

> I got a second opinion from 2 dermatologists at a teaching

> hospital and they say that he used the best laser and

> some people don't respond. I asked  what percentage of patients

> it doesn't respond and he said there have been no studies done

> so he couldn't say. He said they could try treatments

> on the rosacea  with a Perfecta laser (very expensive, only

> 2 in Canada) but I might not know if it works until 7 treatments

> ($600 x 7 = $4200). I don't want to have the 4th prepaid IPL

treatment

> because it doesn't work on the vessels and I don't want my skin

> pigmentation problem to get worse. He thinks I should have the 4th

IPL

> because it "always makes your skin look better and you can never

have

> enough of them."I feel taken. I only joined

> the support group today after receiving the 2nd opinion.

>

IPl didn't work for me either..there are lot's of different lasers to

try but i think it's important to know before hand that it won't

always work. Not many doctors seem to be to forthcoming about their

success rates.



After i had four unsecessful ipl treatments I found a great derm who

has every kind of laser and was extremely honest about results

(whereas the person i had the ipl with had said it always worked).



My derm has had the most success with v-beam for flushing but said in

his experience there was about a 30% chance that my flushing would

respond well to treatment. His suggested plan was to do three v-beam

treatments (spaced three months apart)and if that didn't help and i

wanted to try again, he would next try the KTP laser (and then if no

results he'd usually then do IPL and lastly YAG).



Luckily for me after two v-beam i have seen good results. I still

flush just as often but it is now more pink than red and doesn't last

as long or feel as hot and painful, which i'm really happy with.



So hang in there hopefully you will find something else that helps.







--- In rosacea-support@yahoogroups.com, "arb161" <arb161@...> wrote:

>

> --- In rosacea-support@yahoogroups.com, "toronto06240"

>

> I was also told that I was laser resistant after vbeam kept my

> disease in remission for a year and then stopped working. Prior to

> that I failed IPL. Then I failed with Dr. Darm and a Doc using the

> yag only. I was lucky that a lot of that time my insurance was

> covering. Still lots of money down the drain. You might want to try

> the vbeam, it has been very helpful to some. In my case I am

> currently having some luck with cynosure- combination pulsed dye

> laser and yag. Painful, slow, expensive (doc will only bill as

> cosmetic)but after 2 treatments I have seen improvement. I have

> severe flushing and redness.Both have been reduced and I'm trying

to

> be hopeful.Unfortunately this is a very difficult disease. I always

> get a little depressed when someone posts great success after one

> series of treatments-many of us are just not that lucky.Don't give

up

> hope.In my humble opinion you should not have any more treatments

> with this laser- call it a loss and move on to something else.

Don't

> give up hope.

> Arlene

> Arlene

>

>

> <toronto06240@> wrote:

> >

> > He says some people's vessels are like that.

> > I never knew when I started that it might not

> > work! It's not a question of me needing

> > a few more treatments than someone else- it just doesn't

> > work on me so I wasted $1500.

> > If I had been told that there was a possibility I would have asked

> > in what percentage of cases does it not work. I was

> > told 4-5 treatments and I would only start to see

> > improvement after the second one. I had prepaid the 4th

> > as part of a package and can't get a refund. Not only did

> > it not work on the rosacea on my cheeks but my face is

> > blotchier than ever. It made the very light pigmentation

> > patches I had even darker so he sprayed them with something

> > to make them form a scab and fall off. But he couldn't

> > spray my whole face so I'm left with a more uneven complexion

> > than before. I'm still waiting to see the results of the spray.

> > I got a second opinion from 2 dermatologists at a teaching

> > hospital and they say that he used the best laser and

> > some people don't respond. I asked  what percentage of patients

> > it doesn't respond and he said there have been no studies done

> > so he couldn't say. He said they could try treatments

> > on the rosacea  with a Perfecta laser (very expensive, only

> > 2 in Canada) but I might not know if it works until 7 treatments

> > ($600 x 7 = $4200). I don't want to have the 4th prepaid IPL

> treatment

> > because it doesn't work on the vessels and I don't want my skin

> > pigmentation problem to get worse. He thinks I should have the

4th

> IPL

> > because it "always makes your skin look better and you can never

> have

> > enough of them."I feel taken. I only joined

> > the support group today after receiving the 2nd opinion.

> >

>

Hi



Do you think that the most effective settings were not used. In my case,

I believe that I would have had better results if the derm. had adjusted

the filters, the number of pulses. duration of pulses and interval

between pulses. I have type 1 rosacea ( no breakouts ) but an overall

rosy tone to my skin ( no obvious dilated vessels ). My derm does not

and will not use the triple protocol.  I feel totally frustrated.



Linda





kate_dmsn wrote:

>

> IPl didn't work for me either..there are lot's of different lasers to

> try but i think it's important to know before hand that it won't

> always work. Not many doctors seem to be to forthcoming about their

> success rates.

>

> After i had four unsecessful ipl treatments I found a great derm who

> has every kind of laser and was extremely honest about results

> (whereas the person i had the ipl with had said it always worked).

>

> My derm has had the most success with v-beam for flushing but said in

> his experience there was about a 30% chance that my flushing would

> respond well to treatment. His suggested plan was to do three v-beam

> treatments (spaced three months apart)and if that didn't help and i

> wanted to try again, he would next try the KTP laser (and then if no

> results he'd usually then do IPL and lastly YAG).

>

> Luckily for me after two v-beam i have seen good results. I still

> flush just as often but it is now more pink than red and doesn't last

> as long or feel as hot and painful, which i'm really happy with.

>

> So hang in there hopefully you will find something else that helps.

>

> --- In rosacea-support@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:rosacea-support%40yahoogroups.com>, "arb161" <arb161@...> wrote:

> >

> > --- In rosacea-support@yahoogroups.com

> <mailto:rosacea-support%40yahoogroups.com>, "toronto06240"

> >

> > I was also told that I was laser resistant after vbeam kept my

> > disease in remission for a year and then stopped working. Prior to

> > that I failed IPL. Then I failed with Dr. Darm and a Doc using the

> > yag only. I was lucky that a lot of that time my insurance was

> > covering. Still lots of money down the drain. You might want to try

> > the vbeam, it has been very helpful to some. In my case I am

> > currently having some luck with cynosure- combination pulsed dye

> > laser and yag. Painful, slow, expensive (doc will only bill as

> > cosmetic)but after 2 treatments I have seen improvement. I have

> > severe flushing and redness.Both have been reduced and I'm trying

> to

> > be hopeful.Unfortunately this is a very difficult disease. I always

> > get a little depressed when someone posts great success after one

> > series of treatments-many of us are just not that lucky.Don't give

> up

> > hope.In my humble opinion you should not have any more treatments

> > with this laser- call it a loss and move on to something else.

> Don't

> > give up hope.

> > Arlene

> > Arlene

> >

> >

> > <toronto06240@> wrote:

> > >

> > > He says some people's vessels are like that.

> > > I never knew when I started that it might not

> > > work! It's not a question of me needing

> > > a few more treatments than someone else- it just doesn't

> > > work on me so I wasted $1500.

> > > If I had been told that there was a possibility I would have asked

> > > in what percentage of cases does it not work. I was

> > > told 4-5 treatments and I would only start to see

> > > improvement after the second one. I had prepaid the 4th

> > > as part of a package and can't get a refund. Not only did

> > > it not work on the rosacea on my cheeks but my face is

> > > blotchier than ever. It made the very light pigmentation

> > > patches I had even darker so he sprayed them with something

> > > to make them form a scab and fall off. But he couldn't

> > > spray my whole face so I'm left with a more uneven complexion

> > > than before. I'm still waiting to see the results of the spray.

> > > I got a second opinion from 2 dermatologists at a teaching

> > > hospital and they say that he used the best laser and

> > > some people don't respond. I asked what percentage of patients

> > > it doesn't respond and he said there have been no studies done

> > > so he couldn't say. He said they could try treatments

> > > on the rosacea with a Perfecta laser (very expensive, only

> > > 2 in Canada) but I might not know if it works until 7 treatments

> > > ($600 x 7 = $4200). I don't want to have the 4th prepaid IPL

> > treatment

> > > because it doesn't work on the vessels and I don't want my skin

> > > pigmentation problem to get worse. He thinks I should have the

> 4th

> > IPL

> > > because it "always makes your skin look better and you can never

> > have

> > > enough of them."I feel taken. I only joined

> > > the support group today after receiving the 2nd opinion.

> > >

> >

>

>

Hi Linda,



It's always good to hear from you, although I am sorry that your IPL doc still

refuses to use the settings you want. That really must be intensely frustrating.

So much money to pay out, of course you will want to maximise your chances of

success.



How is your skin generally these days? Still flaky, or have you been able to

improve that?



Kindest regards,



Aurelia

I still find it hard to believe that blood vessels can be non responsive!  Kind

of sounds like blame the patient if you can't do the job.



   How are you Aurelia?  well,

    I hope.  Good luck Linda.



   regards to all

   Aimee



Aurelia <aurelia.dawn@...> wrote:

   Hi Linda,



It's always good to hear from you, although I am sorry that your IPL doc still

refuses to use the settings you want. That really must be intensely frustrating.

So much money to pay out, of course you will want to maximise your chances of

success.



How is your skin generally these days? Still flaky, or have you been able to

improve that?



Kindest regards,



Aurelia





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