hello all,

after eating paleo for the past year (and losing apprx 70 lbs), I have started to experiment
with raw foods. I've eaten raw eggs and sashimi many times in the past and will continue to
do so, but my interest with this post lies in eating raw beef. after being tempted many times,
I finally ate some raw ground beef. I should say that this is grass-fed ground, previously
frozen, which I buy from a local farm, and I know the farmers. even with that, I was still a
little nervous about eating raw ground.

over the course of 2 days, I ate apprx 2 lbs of this raw. I didn't get sick or nauseaus,
however, I've had MILD diahrea since then. this isn't very serious, so I don't think I've got
some kind of illness. my question is.... why? is this normal to have some loose bowel
movements when first eating raw beef? does my body just need to adjust, or is it rejecting it?

any thoughts? anyone else here eat raw ground on a regular basis?

Here's an interesting study which appeared on another list:-


"Vitamin C Plus Fat Might Spur Cancer
THURSDAY, Sept. 6 (HealthDay News) -- When fat is present in the
stomach, vitamin C transforms from a cancer-fighter to a possible
contributor to malignancy, new research suggests.

Researchers at Western Infirmary in Glasgow, Scotland, analyzed the
interaction between vitamin C and lipid (fat) in the upper stomach,
which is particularly vulnerable to pre-cancerous changes and tumor
growth. They focused on changes in nitrite chemistry.

Nitrites are present in human saliva and preserved foods. During the
digestive process, they can be converted to cancer-causing compounds
called nitrosamines, which form in acidic conditions. However,
vitamin C usually inhibits their formation by converting nitrites to
nitric oxide.

But the researchers found that when vitamin C and nitrites meet in
environments with 10 percent fat, vitamin C multiplied the production
of cancer-causing nitrosamines by eight to 140 times.

Without high fat levels, vitamin C curbed the levels of two
nitrosamines by a factor of between five and 1,000. And it completely
eliminated the production of the other two, the researchers said.

Fat remains in the stomach for some time after eating and also makes
up the content of many cells lining the stomach, the study authors
noted.

Writing in the September issue of Gut, the team theorized that this
interaction explains why vitamin C supplements have not had
significant success in reducing cancer risk."

taken from:-  http://tinyurl.com/2ygj26

Geoff

Unfortunatley I was exposed to  polytetrafluoroethlyene gas during the
course of my work, it's a carcinogen. Does anybody have the knowledge
to know if my body can excrete such a serious poision.

My work collegues seem to be blase about the whole situation  oweing
mainly to the macho Australian (over)work ethic.

I'm seriously considering a career change

Andrew

I have posted questions like "do raw eaters have pans (if the raw deat
does not work...)" or "alkaline, ionized water"...

I have been eating meat and doing IF but what I can not understand is
why I (movement, water or fat) have runny stools. I never know when the
next "runny" movement will come... Am I drinking to much or eating to
much fat? Others that are just eating raw meat and fat; are you not
drinking and not doing any sport?

Could it the alkaline, ionized water?

Hi all.
  The diet in details:
  Thu Aug 30, 2007. I again had to travel and this time I went down
to the country. I trained early in the morning and was happy in
expectation of reunion with my home. At the eleventh hour I was able
to buy some fruits and was absolutely ready and delighted.
-5.30 p.m. 300 grams of Cornelian Cherry;
-an hour later I ate brain from one cow (an lb in weight);
-after another 30 minutes I consumed about half a kilo of lamb’s
tongues.
I finished before 8.30 p.m. It was strange but all were eaten on the
back seat of the bus…
Fri Aug 31, 2007. I had a very busy day and no opportunity to eat
until late hours.
-again fruit was first â€" some 200 grams of Cornelian Cherry and 400
grams of grapes at 10 p.m.;
-30 or 40 min. later 1.5 lb of a retail beef lean cuts with a
handful (100-150 gr.) of cow's bone marrow and four small chicken
eggs. I coped with all that at midnight. Eggs were fine and
absolutely natural and from free-range fowl.
Sat Sep 01, 2007 â€" a fast-day. No foods no meals.
Sun Sep 02, 2007 was more successful day in terms of food as I was
able to swap a bottle of vodka for a duck. My first kill. The duck
was strong and even after I cut off it's head it died really hard.
That day starting from 3.30 p.m. onwards I ate:
-around 200 grams of grapes, two cups of raspberries(300-350 grams)
and one small apple. I lately happen to overdo with fruit
consumption but I just cannot resist. They are easily obtainable in
the village. You just have to climb a tree or pick some berries.
-an hour later duck’s innards with the blood which I strained off it
and two small chicken eggs;
-40 min. or so almost 1.5 lb of duck’s breast and another 4 eggs.
Right around 7 p.m. the meal was all over. It seems that eating a
tad more than I used to makes me emotionally balanced. Moreover I am
able to maintain my weight in spite of frequent fast-days. However I
still lack buoyancy… Most of the time I have to force myself to
exercise. But this weekend in the countryside was well arduous and
loads of energy were spent.
Mon Sep 03, 2007. After slightest activity I sit down to my dinner:
-7.30 p.m. 300 grams of Cornelian Cherry and the same amount of
grapes;
-an hour later one beef kidney (0.5 kilo) with some marrow and suet
(maybe 100-150 grams of fat in total).
Tue Sep 04, 2007. This night I woke up in the death struggle. I had
intolerably high fever just out of nothing and practically wasn’t
able to properly sleep. The pain was past bearing. The following day
was just effectively ruined as I was out on my feet. I didn’t fancy
exercises of any kind et al… But since my condition slightly
improved with the approaching of evening I ignored the headache and
had a full hour of exercises. After came dinner:
-9.30 p.m. 200-300 grams of highly mouldy Cornelian Cherry, the same
amount of grapes and one apple;
-almost an hour later one or two mouthfuls of high-heart (lamb’s);
-later on (half an hour) up to 1.5 lb of the above mentioned duck
(the remaining part of it) with a handful of marrow (I think 150
grams) and topped it all with one goose egg. About midnight I
consumed everything that was put before me… And I couldn’t have
managed another slice. The fever and the headache has declined.
Wed Sep 05, 2007. Yes, you have hit it right â€" a fast-day!
Thu Sep 06, 2007 I finally managed to buy my favourite lamb’s offal…
-half past seven p.m. I ate usual 300 grams of Cornelian Cherry with
equal amount of grapes;
-an hour later one beef kidney with one mouthful of suet;
-and after another 30 min. two lamb’s hearts (10-12 oz) with a
handful of bone marrow (4-5 oz). I swept the table clean by
approximately 9 p.m.
Fri Sep 07 2007 was the day I was going to travel again. So after
work I exercised for an hour or so and was about to eat something…
-right after 9 p.m. I consumed up to half a kilo of grapes and two
small apples;
-little more than half an hour later four lamb's hearts(1.5lb), plus
a handful of marrow (5 oz maybe);
-about midnight I finished off with a kind of nut formula consisting
of two oz of almonds, four small chicken eggs and one tbsp of honey.
I’ve come to the conclusion that my obsession with mostly acid-
forming fruits caused too high acidity levels of my body and hence
calcium and other minerals depletion. I felt urgent need to begin
alkalizing my body. So I had to cut out Cornelian Cherry and add
some calcium dense food (nuts with eggs).
On Sat Sep 08, 2007 I day-fasted since found no sources of proper
food in the countryside. All the country-folks were loath to sell me
any poultry or livestock and it was only on the following day when I
had my second kill. This time it was chicken…
  healthily
  Yuri

Unfortunatley I was exposed to polytetrafluoroethlyene gas during the
course of my work, it's a carcinogen. Does anybody have the knowledge
to know if my body can excrete such a serious poision.

My work collegues seem to be blase about the whole situation oweing
mainly to the macho Australian (over)work ethic.

I'm seriously considering a career change

Andrew

New to the list so here goes...

Been into alternative medicine and nutrition for about a decade and am
transitioning to a raw diet, currently I'm about to get my first
shipment of grassfed beef from a local farm which I feel good about
raw eating. I'm not totally dogmatic though and plan to eat raw fruits
& cooked tomato products while on the diet.

My aha moment was when I quit wanting to eat and went a few days
without, my instincts led me to realize the only things worth eating
were raw. I did one week raw (w/out much raw meat, mostly fish) and
had amazing results, thats when I knew I should-now I'm getting around
to actually doing it.


M.
:)

--- In rawpaleodiet@yahoogroups.com, "nicolaharrisonsamba"
<nicolaharrisonsamba@...> wrote:
>
> I have posted questions like "do raw eaters have pans (if the raw deat
> does not work...)" or "alkaline, ionized water"...
>
> I have been eating meat and doing IF but what I can not understand is
> why I (movement, water or fat) have runny stools. I never know when the
> next "runny" movement will come... Am I drinking to much or eating to
> much fat? Others that are just eating raw meat and fat; are you not
> drinking and not doing any sport?
>
> Could it the alkaline, ionized water?
>
I'm a beginner with this diet but something that I've done is to take
a bacterial supplement with the meat and of course start off slowly.

Alkaline water should be really quickly absorbed in the stomach and so
shouldn't affect it much, unless you drink it with a meal which i
could see that causing some probs. possibly.

If it were me, I'd take a clove of garlic, then the next day take alot
of bacteria supplements to make a fresh bacterial start in the
digestive tract. But this is just a guess for a solution.

--- In rawpaleodiet@yahoogroups.com, "Yuriy" <foolinn@...> wrote:
>
>  Hi all.
>  The diet in details:

The curiousity is bugging me - what is Cornelian Cherry?

Where I live (46N 76W) we get cherries from the western mountains of
Canada and U.S.A., but the seasonal availability is short.

I love cherries.

Regards,

William

I have posted questions like "do raw eaters have pans (if the raw deat
does not work...)" or "alkaline, ionized water"...

I have been eating meat and doing IF but what I can not understand is
why I (movement, water or fat) have runny stools. I never know when the
next "runny" movement will come... Am I drinking to much or eating to
much fat? Others that are just eating raw meat and fat; are you not
drinking and not doing any sport?

Could it the alkaline, ionized water?

I just got some fresh raw beef kidney suet yesterday.  I ate a little
last night but it's not that good texture wise, very difficult to eat.
  How do you eat it?  I know Geoff eats it.
I cut a bunch into pieces and tried choking it down but it doesn't
chew well.  No matter how much I chew it it stays in chunks instead of
getting chewed up so then I have to unpleasantly swallow chunks of the
suet.  So I was only able to eat about two tablespoons forcefully then
didn't eat any more of it, I would have eaten around 3 times more if
it were as edible as bone marrow.

-Jon

Suet Is a difficult one, I get suet which is easy to swallow but
there is cartalidge in it which I spit out. I think my suet comes
from around the stomach, it's is thin and stretches out like a fan.
The suet in the kidney is hard to swallow.

When starting out on the diet I tried to bolt suet, it got caught in
my throat and i coughed it back up.

You could try eating it with banana which is what I often do as it
helps it slip down easily.

I eat a lot of suet 200-400 grams per day (1.5kg of meat/organs) Its
alot but I have to I would starve If i ate the small amounts of food
other people on this board report to eat and I'm only 5' 9" 70 kg.


Also eating alot of suet also balances me out emotionally i'll often
feel angry/competitive if 'm not full of meat and fat...

Andrew

--- In rawpaleodiet@yahoogroups.com, "skrzn" <WilliamSchnell@...> wrote:
>
> --- In rawpaleodiet@yahoogroups.com, "Yuriy" <foolinn@> wrote:
> >
> >  Hi all.
> >  The diet in details:
>
> The curiousity is bugging me - what is Cornelian Cherry?
>
> Where I live (46N 76W) we get cherries from the western mountains of
> Canada and U.S.A., but the seasonal availability is short.
>
> I love cherries.
>
> Regards,
>
> William

  Hi William.
  Well here is the standart link about the fruit
<http://www3.unifi.it/ueresgen29/ds10.htm>. If you are interested you
may also lokk at this more detailed analysis with some nutrient content
<journals.tubitak.gov.tr/agriculture/issues/tar-98-22-4/tar-22-4-7-
96062.pdf>
  Yuri

----- Original Message -----

From: Jon

To: rawpaleodiet@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 5:26 AM

Subject: [rawpaleodiet] Raw Suet

I just got some fresh raw beef kidney suet yesterday. I ate a little
last night but it's not that good texture wise, very difficult to eat.
How do you eat it? I know Geoff eats it.
I cut a bunch into pieces and tried choking it down but it doesn't
chew well. No matter how much I chew it it stays in chunks instead of
getting chewed up so then I have to unpleasantly swallow chunks of the
suet. So I was only able to eat about two tablespoons forcefully then
didn't eat any more of it, I would have eaten around 3 times more if
it were as edible as bone marrow.

-Jon

Hello All,

I've been eating a diet ranging from about 50-100% raw over the last 5
years.  The last year or so have been about 50%.  The gums on two of
my teeth are receding a bit and I was wondering if anyone has had any
experience with this.  Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks,
mike

--- In rawpaleodiet@yahoogroups.com, "uprise78" <uprise78@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> I've been eating a diet ranging from about 50-100% raw over the last 5
> years.  The last year or so have been about 50%.  The gums on two of
> my teeth are receding a bit and I was wondering if anyone has had any
> experience with this.  Any suggestions welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> mike
>
am i supposed to write directly under your message?.. hmm strange?
o.k you are probably developing scurvey. ( lack of vitamin c /
bioflavanoids.) eat plenty of citrus fruit. dont juice it. although the
juice contains the vitamin, the pith contains the bioflavanoids. they
work together synergetically. ( excuse spelling)

There could be any number of reasons, depending on the individual. In
my own case, I had receding gums and very weakened teeth  pre-raw diet
and up till 6 months into going raw - cutting out all  dairy  solved
the problem for me, over time.

Geoff


--- In rawpaleodiet@yahoogroups.com, "uprise78" <uprise78@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> I've been eating a diet ranging from about 50-100% raw over the last 5
> years.  The last year or so have been about 50%.  The gums on two of
> my teeth are receding a bit and I was wondering if anyone has had any
> experience with this.  Any suggestions welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> mike
>

I've heard a few sources who had receeding gum lines switched to a raw
diet and ate plenty of pineapple. The pinapple seemed to knit the gums
back together. They also ate plenty of raw beef, chicken and fish.

Hello All,

I've been eating a diet ranging from about 50-100% raw over the last 5
years. The last year or so have been about 50%. The gums on two of
my teeth are receding a bit and I was wondering if anyone has had any
experience with this. Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks,
mike

I wouldn't diagnose scurvy too hastily, but it certainly is possible
depending on what you're eating.  I'd also be very interested in your
mineral status which could be contributing too.  Interestingly enough
it is possible to maintain vitamin C levels on a meat only diet, if
you eat all the organs.  I believe bone marrow and adrenal glands have
the highest vitamin C content.  If it were me though, I'd stick with
some raw fruit.


Daniel Chong, ND
www.NaturalMedicineConsultations.com

--- In rawpaleodiet@yahoogroups.com, "........" <the_empowerer@...> wrote:
>
> I've heard a few sources who had receeding gum lines switched to a raw
> diet and ate plenty of pineapple. The pinapple seemed to knit the gums
> back together. They also ate plenty of raw beef, chicken and fish.
>


I have tried brushing with cayenne pepper to reverse receding gums.  I
think it works well.  Cloves and clove oil, tea tree oil all seem to
work well, according to what I hear.  Coconut oil is tremendously good
for the teeth, and probably the gums as well.

mike

I was a long-term vegetarian and suffered from severe protein
deficiency. I have a skin condition on my eyelids that has been
described as flaky paint/crazy pavement. It is a dry itchy, flaky rash.
It got somewhat better when I went raw and has improved off and on
since I introduced meat. (I eat some raw and some rare and am hoping to
one day have the courage to eat more raw...).

Has anyone heard of this?  For me it seems to be worse when I eat
sugar.  Just curious. Thanks.

Here's an interesting Daily Telegraph article, below, which
illustrates just how limited  almost all  modern "healthy" diets are,
whether raw or cooked, by comparison to the huge variety of food and
nutrients in more ancient diets. Ignore the misguided reference
to "caveman cuisine", it's basically referring to a cooked Neolithic
Diet, in this particular article.

"Britain's prehistoric recipes uncovered
By Paul Stokes
Last Updated: 6:17am BST 14/09/2007

  Have your say      Read comments


The menus may lack a little refinement for today's discerning diners,
but the signature dishes of our ancestors were nothing if not
adventurous.

Cavemen cuisine is definitely an acquired taste
Have your say: Would you eat hedgehog? | Hedgehog recipes
For it has emerged that even in prehistoric times, the British
domestic goddess was adept at rustling up a traditional roast, albeit
hedgehog, with a nettle pudding for afters and a little barley bread
on the side.

Later on the more pretentious palates of the Romans could be
satisfied with dishes which would not be so out of place in more
modern restaurants, such as stuffed dates, or In Mitulus, a version
of moules mariniere.

The lid has been lifted on these ancient gastronomic delights in the
hunt for Britain's oldest recipes.

Researchers wanted to compile a list of favourite foods that
sustained our forebears and their influence on modern-day menus.

Top of the pot came nettle pudding, which was traced back 8,000 years.

Close behind were smokey stew, a combination of bacon and smoked
fish; then a mixture of offal, fat and herbs called meat pudding
followed by barley bread and roast hedgehog.

Stinging nettles, which remain in plentiful supply today, are still
used in puddings, soup, tea, porridge and beer.

A team from the Centre for Nutrition and Dietetics at the University
of Wales Institute, Cardiff spent two months scouring historical
records for the findings.

Archaeological discoveries had to be relied upon for the earliest
recipe references while those from Roman times came from Latin
writings.

Dr Ruth Fairchild, who led the work, described the discovery of
recipes as far back as 6,000BC as "truly astonishing".

She said yesterday: "What we're eating now bears some relation to
what we were eating thousands of years ago.

"From records we don't know when we started cooking meat. When we
started to wrap things around the meat - like grass and seaweed - and
add herbs to make it taste better, that's when you get into the
realms of a real recipe.

"We set out to find recorded 'cooking directions' that embodied the
true elements of a recipe - the feasible assembly of ingredients
which improve on processing.

"The oldest that fitted that description was for nettle pudding. Oat
cakes are not in the list because they were more a cooking method
than the definition of a recipe."

Prehistoric man spent his time standing over makeshift boiling
vessels cooking up soups and stews from meat and bones wrapped in
leaves with added vegetables.

Hedgehogs were a common food for roasting in Neolithic times, as were
seabirds, but are now a protected species. However, they still make
it on to plates today by those obtaining their meat through "road
kills".

The Romans brought more sophistication to mealtimes with the
introduction of separate courses for sweet and savoury foods.

Stuffed dates and elderberry patina, an omlette-type dish, were
regular features while they also introduced beating eggs to make
custard, cakes and fruit bread and used sweet fruit and nuts as
additional ingredients.

Other favourites to have evolved from the long-bygone age are
pancakes and pottage, a thick soup or stew.

Old recipes thought to be less in favour today are garum and
liquamen, sauces made from fish guts and heads, and barley bread, an
early form of unleavened bread.

The research was commissioned by UKTV Food as part of its
current "The People's Cookbook" series presented by chefs Antony
Worrall Thompson and Paul Rankin.

Paul Moreton, the head of the television channel, said: "Although
British eating habits have obviously changed over the years, this
study shows that home-cooked dishes like pancakes and pottage have
been passed down from generation to generation."


----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

Top 10 oldest recipes:

1 Nettle pudding

2 Smokey stew

3 Meat pudding

4 Barley bread

5 Roast hedgehog

6 Pancakes

7 Pottage

8 Garum and liquamen

9 In Mitulus (Mussels)

10 Pastries stuffed with date and elderberry patina"


taken from:-  http://tinyurl.com/2ej9jv


  Geoff

--- In rawpaleodiet@yahoogroups.com, Celeste Howe <celestelhowe@...>
wrote:
>
> Mike,
> What do you do with the coconut oil? Eat it or brush with it?
>
> Celeste
>

Both.  I find that Tooth Soap, which is made from coconut oil, is very
good for controlling tooth sensitivity.

The best thing I've ever tried for teeth/gums would have to be chewing
fresh mature coconut that was from a tree that grows next to the
ocean, whose roots are soaked by seawater daily.   The water inside
the coconuts from such a tree tastes like sweetened seawater, and the
mineral content of those coconuts is off the charts.  I'd love to find
a source for such nuts without having to move back to Costa Rica or
Hawaii.

mike

--- In rawpaleodiet@yahoogroups.com, "concha.franco"
<concha.franco@...> wrote:
>
> I was a long-term vegetarian and suffered from severe protein
> deficiency. I have a skin condition on my eyelids that has been
> described as flaky paint/crazy pavement. It is a dry itchy, flaky rash.
> It got somewhat better when I went raw and has improved off and on
> since I introduced meat. (I eat some raw and some rare and am hoping to
> one day have the courage to eat more raw...).
>
> Has anyone heard of this?  For me it seems to be worse when I eat
> sugar.  Just curious. Thanks.
>

Yeah I had this'Kinda flaky  and sore.

although wasn't a vegetarian I always craved meat. Should clear up
very quickly and easily if you eat raw meat and fat for 3 months.

You might consider looking into the possibility of vegetarian diet
induced "Leaky Gut Syndrome" as a contributing factor.   Anytime I see
a patient with a weird skin condition, I consider this.  There are
many potential contributing factors to such a condition, including
vegetarian/vegan diets, food allergies, imbalance of bacteria and
other bugs in your gut, stress, etc.  You can order the lab test,
called an Intestinal Premeability Test, for it here:

If you were interested, you could order the test from the site above
and see what the results  were.  If they were positive, you could
consult with me about a treatment plan through my website below (I am
a licensed and board certified naturopathic physician) regarding a
treatment plan.  There is a strong likelihood that the diet you
currently following, if it is grain free, would eventually solve the
problem too.
--
Daniel Chong, ND
178 SW 2nd Ave.
Canby, OR
503-266-4329
www.NaturalMedicineConsultations.com

A while back I had some raw fresh salmon and vomited. I consulted this
group and was told that fish caught in rivers are toxic and vomit is a
common reaction. AV book sited the same problem when his patients ate
  the offending fish such as salmon, sturgeon and a few others.

It is Shad (a kind of oily fish) season here and yesterday I saw some
for sale at a supermarket. My research into Shad indicates that like
salmon it lives in the ocean but comes to rivers to spawn where it is
caught. It is a highly oily fish which I like to try but I do not want
to get sick over it. I wanted to see if anyone here has had Shad in
raw form and if they got sick over it or had other problems or if they
enjoyed it with no problems. Any other useful information or links
about this fish would be appreciated.

Thanks, and please keep your responses on the subject matter of this post.

Mani

Due to other things intruding, I didn't  keep a note of my past daily
diet-routine, so I've  forgotten some of the more specific details.-
since I, at first,  forgot to calibrate my food-weighing scales
properly,  this is  just as well. so I'll post more frequently. re
daily food-intake etc.



Day 1:-  15 raw oysters. 2 (100g) cartons of raspberries.

Day 2:- 1 teal(250g) and 1  mallard(750g), both wild-caught - all
weights include the weight of the bone . Teal is, apparently, some sort
of miniature duck-species.

G