Hello everyone,

Yesterday I purchased some raw goat milk. This is our first time consuming raw
milk. It tastes pretty good! I was able to pick some up directly from a local
farm in TX. The same  day I started my first batch of kefir. Now I've tried goat
milk kefir but the milk was pasteurized at the lowest temp permissable by state
law.

So now that I have some raw milk, I know the benefits are even greater. So
yesterday I was able to get some kefir grains from a friend. I put about a
tablespoon of grains in a 16oz pint glass jar and poured some milk in there. I
didnt fill it all the way to the top though. It's been sitting in my cupboard
covered for about 20hrs now. I just looked at it and the grains look clumped
together. It tastes kinda sour. The grains were previously in some pasteurized
cow's milk. Should this affect the fermentation process? How do I know when the
kefir has fermented to the point where there's greater bacteria and probiotics?
The fact that is RAW milk is the fermentation time shorter?

I really appreciate you viewing my post! I look forward to the dialogue and the
wealth of information you have to share in this group!

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.  I called the AG office to give
them my 2 cents worth.  So sad that this goes on.

Doris

> To: raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com
> From: jennibear_23@...
> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 15:34:21 +0000
> Subject: [raw_goatmilk] Missouri government undercover sting operation against
raw milk
>
> Hello everyone. I thought I'd bring this to the attention of the group in case
you haven't heard. I think it should be of great interest to all small family
dairy farms whether they raise goats, cows, sheep, etc....
>
> "Missouri government plots undercover sting operations against families
selling raw milk"  http://www.naturalnews.com/027675_raw_milk_Missouri.html
>
> If you have facebook, there is also a facebook group you can join - Support
Bechard Family Farm and Raw Milk - and follow up with what is going on with the
Bechard family. Even though they have a cow, I believe they could use the
support of all raw milk producers.
>
> For those who don't have facebook, here is some information they have posted
and asked to share with those who support raw milk.
> "Some of you may have seen things in the news this week about Attorney General
Chris Koster's lawsuit against Bechard Family Farm concerning raw milk. This is
really a mountain out of a molehill situation, and is of course very concerning
to raw milk consumers and producers around Missouri.
>
> If raw milk is important to you, please call or email his office and tell him
so! Tell him you support freedom in food, legal raw milk being freely available,
etc., and that you don't want raw milk producers being bothered. Be courteous
and polite so they will listen, and explain that you're concerned about this
lawsuit and want to make sure that he knows that raw milk is an important issue
for you.
>
> Attorney General Chris Koster's contact info:
> Jefferson City office: 573-751-3321
> or email his offices at ag@...
>
> Thank you very much, and please pass this email on to anyone who cares about
raw milk being available in Missouri!"
>
> Jenn
> Bearden's Back Acre Farm
> Southern Illinois
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=P\
ID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello everyone. I thought I'd bring this to the attention of the group in case
you haven't heard. I think it should be of great interest to all small family
dairy farms whether they raise goats, cows, sheep, etc....

"Missouri government plots undercover sting operations against families selling
raw milk"  http://www.naturalnews.com/027675_raw_milk_Missouri.html

If you have facebook, there is also a facebook group you can join - Support
Bechard Family Farm and Raw Milk - and follow up with what is going on with the
Bechard family. Even though they have a cow, I believe they could use the
support of all raw milk producers.

For those who don't have facebook, here is some information they have posted and
asked to share with those who support raw milk.
"Some of you may have seen things in the news this week about Attorney General
Chris Koster's lawsuit against Bechard Family Farm concerning raw milk. This is
really a mountain out of a molehill situation, and is of course very concerning
to raw milk consumers and producers around Missouri.

If raw milk is important to you, please call or email his office and tell him
so! Tell him you support freedom in food, legal raw milk being freely available,
etc., and that you don't want raw milk producers being bothered. Be courteous
and polite so they will listen, and explain that you're concerned about this
lawsuit and want to make sure that he knows that raw milk is an important issue
for you.

Attorney General Chris Koster's contact info:
Jefferson City office: 573-751-3321
or email his offices at ag@...

Thank you very much, and please pass this email on to anyone who cares about raw
milk being available in Missouri!"

Jenn
Bearden's Back Acre Farm
Southern Illinois

All raw milk has lactose in it. It is the lactase which is missing or in
short supply in people with lactose intolerance.
Lactase is also one of the enzymes that is damaged by pasteurization.



I'm no expert on food chemistry, but I believe it is the type of casein
which can cause some problems with some people with LI.
Cow's milk has that type of casein, and so do Nigerian dwarfs and some of
the mini's milk. Because the amounts of butterfats and proteins are
so high in ND/mini milk, even though the fats are presented in smaller bits,
it can be problematic for some people with a milk allergy or intolerance.
But that is not always true, but anyone switching to a raw milk of any kind
should take it slow and see how it settles with them.

ADGA does have a casein test available which helps people breed for higher
cheese yields, but for most consumers it's not of much interest.



Pat Stewart





Hames & Axle Farm Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats
Surfing Goat Soaps
Ashburnham, MA 01430

www.hamesaxle.com <http://www.hamesaxle.com/>
Home of Personal <http://www.hamesaxle.com/PersonalMilkers.html>  Milkers: A
Primer to Nigerian Dwarf Goats
  www.smallholdersalliance.com <http://www.smallholdersalliance.com/>
Anti-NAIS in Massachusetts
http://www.smallfarmgoat.com <http://www.smallfarmgoat.com/>

Ruminations Magazine





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Interesting....
It does sound like lactose intolerance.
Niggie and some Mini's milk does have some lactose in them.  So the breed does
matter. And so does all the other stuff mentioned in other posts.
It could also have been an attack of the H1N1 flu too. Because those are the
exact symtoms of a mild case of that. And it was coincidental to the timing of
drinking the milk. I did that one time with tomatoe juice. (Drank some while not
knowing I was coming down with the flu.)I was so sick too, I was certain it was
the juice, but all tests came up negitve. It was almost a year before I could
stomack the stuff again. I don't know what happened to me, but I know I was
sensitive after that for quite a while. Now its all gone.
Just go easy, and maybe you should pasturize your milk..
Annie in Amargosa

--- In raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com, "coyasmama" <maymaybutt@...> wrote:
>
> my daughter & I have tried it before, but not a lot. Now we have 2 half
gallons & were drinking it yesterday. We used it in mac & cheese, & cereal
together, but I also had a big mug full to drink. I got a head ache & could
taste it all day long in the back of my mouth! weird. Then last night I got
extremely nauseous, was so tired though, I forced myself to lay still so my
tummy wouldn't churn so much! I really needed to puke, but didn't. Then this
morning I woke up w/the poops! I still feel a bit nauseous. My daughter  (4 yrs
old)says she's fine. & I'm hoping she doesn't get sick! What do all of you
think? Was it because I had too much? Being one of the first times I drank that
much? Not sure I should let her drink it anymore... help! -C
>

I have never had a problem with raw goats milk. Now I;m using it now to fermente
kefir grains and they love the raw goats milk. My kefir grains grow much faster
with the goats milk.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: sawgna_farms@...
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 12:02:50
To: <raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [raw_goatmilk] Re: sick from raw goat milk

A lot of times raw goat milk will give a person the runs when not used to it.
But never heard of one being sick
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Laura" <GoatSoaperLaura@...>
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 05:20:37
To: <raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [raw_goatmilk] Re: sick from raw goat milk

It's been almost a month since you wrote. How are you doing now?
IDLaura
--- In raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com, "coyasmama" <maymaybutt@...> wrote:
>
> my daughter & I have tried it before, but not a lot. Now we have 2
half gallons & were drinking it yesterday. We used it in mac & cheese, &
cereal together, but I also had a big mug full to drink. I got a head
ache & could taste it all day long in the back of my mouth! weird. Then
last night I got extremely nauseous, was so tired though, I forced
myself to lay still so my tummy wouldn't churn so much! I really needed
to puke, but didn't. Then this morning I woke up w/the poops! I still
feel a bit nauseous. My daughter  (4 yrs old)says she's fine. & I'm
hoping she doesn't get sick! What do all of you think? Was it because I
had too much? Being one of the first times I drank that much? Not sure I
should let her drink it anymore... help! -C
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A lot of times raw goat milk will give a person the runs when not used to it.
But never heard of one being sick
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Laura" <GoatSoaperLaura@...>
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 05:20:37
To: <raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [raw_goatmilk] Re: sick from raw goat milk

It's been almost a month since you wrote. How are you doing now?
IDLaura
--- In raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com, "coyasmama" <maymaybutt@...> wrote:
>
> my daughter & I have tried it before, but not a lot. Now we have 2
half gallons & were drinking it yesterday. We used it in mac & cheese, &
cereal together, but I also had a big mug full to drink. I got a head
ache & could taste it all day long in the back of my mouth! weird. Then
last night I got extremely nauseous, was so tired though, I forced
myself to lay still so my tummy wouldn't churn so much! I really needed
to puke, but didn't. Then this morning I woke up w/the poops! I still
feel a bit nauseous. My daughter  (4 yrs old)says she's fine. & I'm
hoping she doesn't get sick! What do all of you think? Was it because I
had too much? Being one of the first times I drank that much? Not sure I
should let her drink it anymore... help! -C
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's been almost a month since you wrote. How are you doing now?
IDLaura
--- In raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com, "coyasmama" <maymaybutt@...> wrote:
>
> my daughter & I have tried it before, but not a lot. Now we have 2
half gallons & were drinking it yesterday. We used it in mac & cheese, &
cereal together, but I also had a big mug full to drink. I got a head
ache & could taste it all day long in the back of my mouth! weird. Then
last night I got extremely nauseous, was so tired though, I forced
myself to lay still so my tummy wouldn't churn so much! I really needed
to puke, but didn't. Then this morning I woke up w/the poops! I still
feel a bit nauseous. My daughter  (4 yrs old)says she's fine. & I'm
hoping she doesn't get sick! What do all of you think? Was it because I
had too much? Being one of the first times I drank that much? Not sure I
should let her drink it anymore... help! -C
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I used to be able to help moderate this group
getting messages and new member threw faster.
But for some reason I no longer am able to do so.
Sorry for the delay in joining in.
Liz
teacupfarm.com

If you drank a big mug full off the top of the jug, you probably drank a
LOT of cream and that butterfat would act like that in your gut from too
much.  It's RICH!

Did you buy it from a reliable source so it was really clean  milk?



~*~ Shar  ~*~
http://viewtoponder.blogspot.com/
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ManagingCaprineBucksandWethers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoatMilkCheeseMeat/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cleanliness of facility and health of the dairy animals is the number ONE thing
to make sure of FIRST. After that:
You said you had not had it before, which translates to a different food than
you are used to as well as consuming a considerable amount for your first day. I
know if your daughter was ill I would be EXTREMLY concerned, but since she is
fine, you didn't mention her consuming nearly as much as you did on the first
day, I think you just over did it. Raw Goat Milk is a highly nutritious nutrient
dense food. I would give your digestive system a day or two to settle back down,
and just go slower the next time you are introducing a new nutrient dense food
to your diet.
Just my two cents worth.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery and a life long enjoyment of this wholesome
and wonderful food.
-Yvonne (Goat Lady) Robinson
Owner/Manager
NYRLE Real Goats Dairy
McDonough, GA

-------------- Original message from susanne stuetzler
<ain_ash_shams@...>: --------------


where did you get your milk from? have you seen the facilities? is it clean? do
the animals look healthy?
normally you should not get sick from drinking raw milk if it comes from healthy
animals and clean farm.
if you are allergic to milk, you might feel sick too but in general goat milk is
much easier to digest. this time of the year, milk has more fat content and you
might have reacted to that? i think i fyour daughter is fine, the milk was fine
too ;)
i hope you feel better soon.

Susanne Stuetzler
Ain-Ash-Shams Nubian Dairy Goats
in Michigan

http://www.ain-ash-shams.net/index.htm

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, coyasmama <maymaybutt@...> wrote:

From: coyasmama <maymaybutt@...>
Subject: [raw_goatmilk] sick from raw goat milk
To: raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 12:32 PM



my daughter & I have tried it before, but not a lot. Now we have 2 half gallons
& were drinking it yesterday. We used it in mac & cheese, & cereal together, but
I also had a big mug full to drink. I got a head ache & could taste it all day
long in the back of my mouth! weird. Then last night I got extremely nauseous,
was so tired though, I forced myself to lay still so my tummy wouldn't churn so
much! I really needed to puke, but didn't. Then this morning I woke up w/the
poops! I still feel a bit nauseous. My daughter (4 yrs old)says she's fine. &
I'm hoping she doesn't get sick! What do all of you think? Was it because I had
too much? Being one of the first times I drank that much? Not sure I should let
her drink it anymore... help! -C

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is legit and we don't have a lot of time, so if you know of anyone else
that might stand up (or sit at their desk) and write a letter, please feel free
to forward this email to them or have them check my website or Christine Edwards
just google Cotton Eyed Does and it will come up - both have the same info as
this email.  The letters need to be snail mailed to Christine Edwards by
11/18/09
Thanks, Carol
http://www.serbinziegen.com

Do you want to be able to sell Raw Goat's Milk Legally in the State of Texas?  
Are you tired of having to put dye in your milk and label it for pet consumption
only?  Are you tired of  inspectors coming around issuing cease and desist
orders, telling you not to sell milk?  Then let our voices be heard.  Sitting
back and wishing something would change is not going to make it happen.   Now is
your chance to make a difference.  There are things happening within our
legislative system to make this a reality.  We need you to fight for change. 
Please feel free to cross-post this to other forums and all letters do need to
be hard copies snail mailed directly to me before November 18, 2009.  Thanks.

I was on the phone with State Representative Jim McReynold's office yesterday 
(Nov. 4, 2009) for about 25 minutes.  They called me to discuss the letter I
sent regarding the sale of Raw Goat Milk in the State of Texas.  Bottom line is
they are researching this matter with all sincerity to try to do something to
help the small scale dairy goat owners in the state of Texas.

Now is the time to act and this is what we need.

People who are able to write a good letter, (not rants and rambling)  including
any factual information about the benefits of raw goat milk, with any supporting
documentation.  Also requesting that Texas change the law to a similar law as
Arkansas has regarding the advertising and sale of raw goat's milk from the
farm.

Letters or Affidavits from people in states, including Arkansas, who are able to
sell raw goat milk up to X # of gallons per month and how the sale of that milk
benefits your dairy operation financially by allowing you to purchase feed for
your animals and helps your individual families' well being.

People who have had to sell their herds of dairy goats or sell several of them
because of financial difficulty due to the cost of feed and not being able to
legally advertise and sell goat's milk from your farm.  Also requesting that
Texas change the law to a similar law as Arkansas has regarding the advertising
and sale of raw goat's milk from the farm.

Please compile your letters and information in a professional manner attaching
any supporting documentation and Affidavits in a timely manner.  If you would
please have them written in presentation form and mail to me before November 18,
2009.

Our voices are being heard.  Don't let this opportunity slip away.  Please don't
assume that "someone else" will do this.  If you don't act someone else might
not act either and then nothing will get done.

Thank you for your support.

Please mail your letters to the following adddress:

Christine Edwards
1160 Browder Loop West
New Waverly, Texas  77358

Christye249p@...

Here are the rules for Arkansas you can print out to send with your letter.

http://www.realmilk.com/milk-laws-1.html#ar

Here is a list of the Senators and Representatives for Texas also.   It would be
very helpful also if you would forward letters to your locals.

Texas State Senators:

http://www.senate.state.tx.us/75r/senate/members.htm

State Representatives:

  http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/welcome.php

where did you get your milk from? have you seen the facilities? is it clean? do
the animals look healthy?
normally you should not get sick from drinking raw milk if it comes from healthy
animals and clean farm.
if you are allergic to milk, you might feel sick too but in general goat milk is
much easier to digest. this time of the year, milk has more fat content and you
might have reacted to that? i think i fyour daughter is fine, the milk was fine
too ;)
i hope you feel better soon.

Susanne Stuetzler
Ain-Ash-Shams Nubian Dairy Goats
in Michigan

http://www.ain-ash-shams.net/index.htm





--- On Mon, 11/9/09, coyasmama <maymaybutt@...> wrote:

From: coyasmama <maymaybutt@...>
Subject: [raw_goatmilk] sick from raw goat milk
To: raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 12:32 PM







 









       my daughter & I have tried it before, but not a lot. Now we have 2 half
gallons & were drinking it yesterday. We used it in mac & cheese, & cereal
together, but I also had a big mug full to drink. I got a head ache & could
taste it all day long in the back of my mouth! weird. Then last night I got
extremely nauseous, was so tired though, I forced myself to lay still so my
tummy wouldn't churn so much! I really needed to puke, but didn't. Then this
morning I woke up w/the poops! I still feel a bit nauseous. My daughter  (4 yrs
old)says she's fine. & I'm hoping she doesn't get sick! What do all of you
think? Was it because I had too much? Being one of the first times I drank that
much? Not sure I should let her drink it anymore... help! -C

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Like with anything new to your body, you  should start out slowly.  Your
body is not used to all the  bacteria, enzymes, and minerals in raw milk, if
you have not used it much  before.  It takes a little while for your body to
make  the adjustment.

Start with only about 8 ounces a day for a week and see how well your body
tolerates it is smaller quantities.  Take baby steps to begin and don't
rush in.  It takes a week or two for your body to adjust to new substances
that are potent as raw milk, kefir, or other health foods.

If pathogenic bacteria a concern add a little garlic oil, mastic gum or raw
  honey to your raw milk.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Its very possible you overdid it.  Your symptoms sound like your not agreeing
with it (lactose intolerance) which is unusual.  What breed of goat do you have?


-----Original Message-----
From: coyasmama <maymaybutt@...>
To: raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2009 10:32 am
Subject: [raw_goatmilk] sick from raw goat milk






my daughter & I have tried it before, but not a lot. Now we have 2 half gallons
& were drinking it yesterday. We used it in mac & cheese, & cereal together, but
I also had a big mug full to drink. I got a head ache & could taste it all day
long in the back of my mouth! weird. Then last night I got extremely nauseous,
was so tired though, I forced myself to lay still so my tummy wouldn't churn so
much! I really needed to puke, but didn't. Then this morning I woke up w/the
poops! I still feel a bit nauseous. My daughter (4 yrs old)says she's fine. &
I'm hoping she doesn't get sick! What do all of you think? Was it because I had
too much? Being one of the first times I drank that much? Not sure I should let
her drink it anymore... help! -C







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

my daughter & I have tried it before, but not a lot. Now we have 2 half gallons
& were drinking it yesterday. We used it in mac & cheese, & cereal together, but
I also had a big mug full to drink. I got a head ache & could taste it all day
long in the back of my mouth! weird. Then last night I got extremely nauseous,
was so tired though, I forced myself to lay still so my tummy wouldn't churn so
much! I really needed to puke, but didn't. Then this morning I woke up w/the
poops! I still feel a bit nauseous. My daughter  (4 yrs old)says she's fine. &
I'm hoping she doesn't get sick! What do all of you think? Was it because I had
too much? Being one of the first times I drank that much? Not sure I should let
her drink it anymore... help! -C

I set the goat milk out for a few days and it did not separate.  I have never
had this happed with goat or raw cow milk.  Is somthing wrong with the diet of
the goat?  thanks