I would appreciate any info regarding government TB requirements for
the sale of raw goat milk in the various states.

Here in Washington, annual TB testing is required of all milk
producing mammals if the milk is to be sold raw for human
consumption. And yet, only brucellosis testing is required for goats
being imported into our state, be it from another state or another
country. I have been trying for months to get the State Vet's office
to give me data on any goats in WA that have ever had TB, and all
they quote me is *cow* TB data.... which I think speaks pretty
clearly about historical data on goats having TB in our state.... ie,
ZERO.

It looks like Oregon only requires brucellosis testing, no TB
testing, on goats producing raw milk for human consumption.

I am discussing this with my state Senate and House agriculture
committee chairs plus my local district's legislative representatives.

I'd like to get a "feel" for what states may have genuine risks of TB
in goats, and what states that allow raw goat milk for human
consumption do or do not require TB testing.

Thank ewe!

Debbie Higgins
Rainhaven Grade A Goat Dairy
Duvall, WA
rainhavengoatdairy@...
425...788.7735

Dear raw_goatmilk List Owner, I have been unable to
contact you through the YahooGroups email address.
Would you please be so kind as to email me privately
off-list?  Thanks so much.

Christina, L.Ac.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

I just joined this group today.  Glad to see the interest!
I am currently not selling any goat milk but WILL be selling come
February '06.  Also, cow milk in April '06.  See my listing on
realmilk.com for Rainier, Oregon.
Blessings!

Oooops, I meant to say that Vicki selling her pasteurized milk is
working well for her and her customers...not raw milk.
..........................

Rona the pasteurized info was for her raising her goatlings, the milk for my
goatlings will forever be pasteurized!  And alot of this is because of my
income from breeding stock.  But I sell fresh frozen raw milk.  I do talk to
my young moms with infant children about pasteurizing, I do the same for my
infant grandson (9 weeks) who I watch during the day.  He is supplemented
pumped breast milk while my daughter works and goes to college with
pasteurized goat milk.  Just can't stand seeing the little ones in day care!

Raw goat milk is the way to go, but I do play devils advocate alot when it
comes to new folks asking about raw milk, after they have purchased a goat
from an auction barn.  Yes in cases you have no health history on the goats
or skills at goat managment, you should pasteurize.

At a local goat meeting, the dairy that supplies the bulk of the fluid milk
for a cheese company near us, admitted to 40% of his does being positive for
staph, still others with staph auerous and others with cloriform, they are
still on the milk line.  Unless one tested goats, you don't know if they are
positive for staph.  With the wonderful new lab in Lousianna, LSU in Homer
LA, we have cheap testings for this now.  Milk tests ran for liscenses are
not mastitis tests.

Staph not CAE or CL are the killers of our diary does production.  And
raising our doelings on unpasteurized milk from does with subclinical
mastitis just gives us yearlings freshening with staph also.  We also of
course are the number one carriers of staph on our hands from doe to doe.
Vicki





Vicki McGaugh
Lonesome Doe Nubians 1986
Goats Milk Soaps and lotion
North of Houston Texas

****AKC Small Shih Tzu pups ready****

Hello everyone!

I have a very small herd of six Swiss Toggenburg does producing WSDA-
licensed Grade A Raw goat milk in western Washington. It took me over 2
years to sloooowly remodel my 8'x8' milking parlor and 6'x12' milk room,
but I finally got my license on August 12th! I hope to get my cheesemaking
room (a 40' semitrailer) finished and licensed by spring.

Debbie Higgins
Rainhaven Grade A Goat Dairy
Duvall, WA
425...788.7735
rainhavengoatdairy@...

Hi, I'm new to this group.  I live in north alabama and am looking for
someone that has raw goat's milk for sale. Thanks

Hi list! I am Amelia and I am glad to see this list off of the
RawDairy list. I have 4 goats for our house milk (two Nubians and two
Alpine/nubie crosses) and am in the process of aquiring two Lamanchas
to milk for a dear friend who has to feed her baby with it. They are
strictly her goats but she needs someone to care for them for her.
Frankly, if our fine state of Montana (which is an excellent place to
live overall) would allow milk to be sold, this woman wouldnt have
had to go out and find goats then find a place to milk them for her,
ugh.

I have always had a closed herd so this is a huge step for me. She is
going through all the hoops for me and haveing her fecals done, CL
and CAE testing, the girls will be isolated in their own stalls and
pasture for 30 days after coming here-hopefully that will be enough.

I am paranoid to the extreme, I realize but I am feeding MY own
children this milk and do not want any disease brought onto my
property.

Anyways, I make the milk into cheeses and yogurt and soaps..just
using it in every way possible to make and keep our girls a working
member of this homestead. Cant have any slackers..LOL

So glad to be here and to hear others appreciating the goats as much
as I do.

Sincerely,

Amelia

I just joined this group after reading the intro.

It is too late now to eat, but that goat milk does sound wonderful.

Looking forward to more information.

yours in good health

nieema

Hi All, I agree with Lenny but when using pasteurized/homogenized store milk
you still have
the fractured fat molecules that the body has no engymatic way of handling. So,
if you can get raw milk the kefir will be much better for you.

As for aged cheeses, if they are aged over 60 days they are supposed to be safe
even if raw milk is used. I do not pasteurize my milk for cheeses, all are made
with raw milk. I have made the soft non aged cheeses and the hard aged cheeses
and generally they are wonderful. I have had a little trouble with mold
developing when the wax somehow developed a crack so now I use a vacuum sealer
and have had much less trouble.

My favorite fermented product in kefir, it is so easy to make and the favor is
good and it can be used in smoothies for those that don't like the taste.  Georg
Ann, Okla.
>
> From: raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 2005/09/19 Mon AM 07:20:54 GMT
> To: raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [raw_goatmilk] Digest Number 2
>
>
> There are 5 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. New Member
>            From: "aniwhitlo2" <aniwhitlo2@...>
>       2. New Member Intro - Christina in Colorado
>            From: Western Slope Land <westernslopeland@...>
>       3. Re: New Member Intro - Christina in Colorado
>            From: "Bobbie Milsom" <CUDCHEWERS@...>
>       4. Thoughts on Testing/Closed Herds...
>            From: Rona Sullivan <rona@...>
>       5. Re: Thoughts on Testing/Closed Herds...
>            From: Lenny and Barb Findley <goaters@...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:39:07 -0000
>    From: "aniwhitlo2" <aniwhitlo2@...>
> Subject: New Member
>
> Hello,
> I am Anita from Valhalla Farms in NE Ohio.  I have just started
> building  my herd of Nubian dairy goats, and like a lot of you, am
> frustrated by the bureaucratic roadblocks to marketing these wonderful
> products.  The "Share a Goat" idea sounds like it might have some
> merit. I would like to hear from anyone else who might have any
> creative marketing ideas for getting product to consumers without
> running afoul of the powers that be.
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 08:12:13 -0700 (PDT)
>    From: Western Slope Land <westernslopeland@...>
> Subject: New Member Intro - Christina in Colorado
>
> Hello all, I am a very new group member, having just
> joined a mere moment ago.  I am a member of a co-op in
> the Denver Colorado area.  It is a “cow share” program
> called Ebert Farms.  I also get raw goats milk from
> someone selling it for my ahhhhhhh, ‘dogs’ (like Vicki
> McGaugh from TX ;-)
>
> I am rather new to the raw milk issue in particular,
> but am finding it very interesting and also very
> satisfying.  As Rona mentioned in message #1, this is
> a heritage food and it’s a crying shame (or worse)
> that it’s illegal in most all states in the USA.  One
> of my personal soapboxes is the ever growing minute
> control of our lives being imposed by Big Brother et
> al, but I won’t go there now, because I can get
> long-winded, tedious and boring when I allow myself to
> stand on that soapbox and begin to preach ;-)))
>
> Rather I will tell you a bit about myself:
> I am interested in all “heritage foods”, including raw
> milks, cheeses, fermented foods and interesting
> no-refrigeration-necessary food storage methods.
>
> As a practitioner of Traditional Chinese Medicine,
> (TCM) I am an acupuncturist, herbalist, and
> nutritional counselor (specifically in the Oriental
> Medicine (OM) tradition).  I am also a classical
> homeopath, and I dabble with essential oils and
> aromatherapy.  I have training in both OM and Western
> massage and energy works.  I have offices in Denver
> and soon to be in Glenwood Springs, Colorado.
>
> I was a vegetarian for 7 years, 3 of which I was
> macrobiotic.  I am well versed in most systems of
> nutrition practiced in the US today, by that I mean
> things like vegetarians, vegans, macrobiotics, raw
> foodists, Gary Null-ists, Atkins-ists, Slim Fast-ists,
> WW/Jenny Craig-ists and even the SAD-ists (SAD = the
> truly, truly sad Standard American Diet).
>
> So, while I am not a dairy and I don’t have cows or
> goats, I have a deep and abiding interest in all the
> issues that might be affecting other members vis a vis
> raw milk and proper nutrition.  I look forward to an
> interesting experience with this group, it’s off to a
> way cool start!  :-)
>
> Christina in Denver, Colorado.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
>    Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 08:18:56 -0700
>    From: "Bobbie Milsom" <CUDCHEWERS@...>
> Subject: Re: New Member Intro - Christina in Colorado
>
> My grand daughter and I are both lactose intolerant.   We did try to drink
pasteurized goat milk but it didn't work for us either.   However;  I've noticed
our bottle baby kids do much better if they're fed unpasteurized milk as apposed
to pasteurized.  I think they need the enzymes and bacteria in the milk to help
them digest.   That's one of the reasons I had some of my dairy goats tested.  
I'll have the rest done this year.
>
>
>
>
> Bobbie Milsom
> Maricopa Arizona
>
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
>    Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 11:22:28 -0400
>    From: Rona Sullivan <rona@...>
> Subject: Thoughts on Testing/Closed Herds...
>
> Hi All,
>
> Just another facet.  I think Vicki McGaugh is right for selling the
> raw milk at the kind of scale you might need to have to stay afloat.
> She is very knowledgeable and has my utmost respect and admiration.
> Vicki ahs answered many of my questions, and helped me out
> tremendously.  Her system works for her and her customers.
>
> However, there is another viable way, at least for a micro raw milk
> cheesemaking operations, that I believe can also work, and that we
> have the right and freedom to choose from.
>
> There are those of us who believe that with a small closed herd,
> mostly pasture based, one can allow the dams to raise their kids
> safely, with very little or no 'testing'.  It just depends on how
> much time you are spending with the goats, (I don't mean that Vicki
> is not, because she is), observing and maintaining their health.  I
> have, at times, had to resort to some painful and heavy culling of
> some 'free' unhealthy goats, with CLA or surmised CAE.  I don't have
> anyone else who is presently symptomatic....knock on wood.
>
> There are still some areas in this country where we have to do all
> our own vetting, but also where there is very little transport of
> goats from out of state, so very little need for the testing.  We
> don't even have labs in Virginia whereby the officials can test our
> milk or goats, for the kinds of laws that they are trying to pass!!
>
> Please don't get me wrong.   I do not discount the fact that some
> diseases pose great risks to animals and humans.  I have no interest
> in passing any of them to anyone, including my family.  However, I
> believe that raw milk also can build immunities in goat kids and in
> humans.  Our health problems were serious enough, and my belief and
> intuition was strong enough, that I took the risk solely for my
> family for a number of years first.  Once I was convinced, then and
> only then, did I begin to sell the aged cheese.  You have to be
> willing to have no income for awhile to do it that way.
>
> Bacteria, viruses and disease is everywhere though.  What if more of
> us can change our way of lives so that we are not treating symptoms,
> or trying to kill bacteria and viruses, but rather building strong
> and healthy immune systems?
>
> Rona
>
> Rona Myers Sullivan
> Sullivan's Pond Farm, Inc.
> http://www.bonnyclabbercheese.com
> http://www.southerncheese.com
> Deltaville, Virginia
>
> "Man cannot live by bread alone...
>           He'd better have some goat cheese and wine to go with
> it!"   Rona
>
>
>
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
>    Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:57:14 -0500
>    From: Lenny and Barb Findley <goaters@...>
> Subject: Re: Thoughts on Testing/Closed Herds...
>
> Picking up on what Rona was saying about building immunity, raw milk
> cultured products are particularly good at doing this. YOGURT, and
> especially  KEFIR, help the body to develop the immune system.  Most
> people know how good yogurt is as a probiotic and how it repopulates the
> flora and fauna of the gut, but kefir has as many as thirty additional
> enzymes and beneficial bacteria.  Using kefir grains rather than a
> culture powder provides many more of the beneficial goodies.  If you are
> not familiar with kefir, please take a look at Dom's Kefir InSite at:
> http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html#kefir-microflora
>
> While I promote all raw milk, I do firmly believe that goat's milk is
> more beneficial than cow's milk.  More people can drink goat's milk
> without problems, it digests more quickly and better than cow's milk,
> and is better for you than cow's milk.  However, drinking raw cow's milk
> is far better than pasturized, homogenized milk; and if you have to
> drink the stuff from the grocery store, kefiring it gives it some
> redeeming qualities!
>
> Lenny
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>

Hello all, I am a very new group member, having just
joined a mere moment ago.  I am a member of a co-op in
the Denver Colorado area.  It is a “cow share” program
called Ebert Farms.  I also get raw goats milk from
someone selling it for my ahhhhhhh, ‘dogs’ (like Vicki
McGaugh from TX ;-)

I am rather new to the raw milk issue in particular,
but am finding it very interesting and also very
satisfying.  As Rona mentioned in message #1, this is
a heritage food and it’s a crying shame (or worse)
that it’s illegal in most all states in the USA.  One
of my personal soapboxes is the ever growing minute
control of our lives being imposed by Big Brother et
al, but I won’t go there now, because I can get
long-winded, tedious and boring when I allow myself to
stand on that soapbox and begin to preach ;-)))

Rather I will tell you a bit about myself:
I am interested in all “heritage foods”, including raw
milks, cheeses, fermented foods and interesting
no-refrigeration-necessary food storage methods.

As a practitioner of Traditional Chinese Medicine,
(TCM) I am an acupuncturist, herbalist, and
nutritional counselor (specifically in the Oriental
Medicine (OM) tradition).  I am also a classical
homeopath, and I dabble with essential oils and
aromatherapy.  I have training in both OM and Western
massage and energy works.  I have offices in Denver
and soon to be in Glenwood Springs, Colorado.

I was a vegetarian for 7 years, 3 of which I was
macrobiotic.  I am well versed in most systems of
nutrition practiced in the US today, by that I mean
things like vegetarians, vegans, macrobiotics, raw
foodists, Gary Null-ists, Atkins-ists, Slim Fast-ists,
WW/Jenny Craig-ists and even the SAD-ists (SAD = the
truly, truly sad Standard American Diet).

So, while I am not a dairy and I don’t have cows or
goats, I have a deep and abiding interest in all the
issues that might be affecting other members vis a vis
raw milk and proper nutrition.  I look forward to an
interesting experience with this group, it’s off to a
way cool start!  :-)

Christina in Denver, Colorado.




__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Hello,
I am Anita from Valhalla Farms in NE Ohio.  I have just started
building  my herd of Nubian dairy goats, and like a lot of you, am
frustrated by the bureaucratic roadblocks to marketing these wonderful
products.  The "Share a Goat" idea sounds like it might have some
merit. I would like to hear from anyone else who might have any
creative marketing ideas for getting product to consumers without
running afoul of the powers that be.

We are Barb and Lenny Findley, also known as Goater and Goater's
Hubby, owners of Findley Follies Farm.  We raise MinMancha Dairy Goats
and sell milk, yogurt, kefir, and chevre.  We are north of Houston, TX
and south of Vicki McGaugh.

We are active proponants of Raw Milk, particularly Raw Goat's Milk.
We have a growing number of customers who are mothers of Autistic
children.  They make a yogurt from the raw goat's milk that is doing
amazing things for their children.  The yogurt helps to relieve the
digestive problems that many Autistic kids have, improves their
immunity, and even seems to help some of them overcome many of the
symptoms of Autism.

GeorgAnn, when I have more time I will relate the story of the first
"Autistic Mom" that came to us.  We have truly seen some miracles that
are at least partially attributable to the goat's milk.

Lenny and Barb Findley

I know that testing them doesn't assure me that the milk will be clean
but I do hope testing them will give me more confidence in my breeding
program that I'm at least avoiding kids getting some of the worst
diseases.
..................................

Actually Bobby, being negative for CAE and CL is wonderful, but I will
forever pasturise milk and heat treat colostrum for my goatlings, because
the diseases that wipe you out are only killed by heat treating and
pasturising, mycoplsma etc.  Your softest udders will be from does who are
heat treated and pasturised.  There is also such a stigma with CAE
prevention, that not doing it hurts sales so much it isn't profitable to
not.

I'm Vicki McGaugh, north of Houston and been milking, showing and exporting
Nubians since 1986.  I go around the Grade A dairy rules with a "for pet
consumption only label".  I make and sell several soft cheeses, and have a
thriving soap business.  I milk from March through Dec for sales and than
Dec and January to fill my freezers for our dry period until March.  I sell
frozen milk, so my customers have year round milk in their own
freezers......ahhhhh for their dogs :)  Vicki



Vicki McGaugh
Lonesome Doe Nubians 1986
Goats Milk Soaps and lotion
North of Houston Texas

****AKC Small Shih Tzu pups ready****

Hi, I'm Doreen, and my family and I (mostly me:) have a small
herd of dairy goats who are well taken care of and loved
immensely. We have an abundance of milk and have some
available for sale at $3 per half gallon in single use containers.
According to state law we cannot sell you raw milk for human
consumption in your own containers. We have Alpines and
Nubians and crosses.

  We have found that goat milk is MUCH more digestible than
cow's milk and there is no aftertaste that lingers in the mouth.
We believe it's because the proteins break down much easier.
My baby and my 13 year old are lactose intolerant. My baby is
only 14 months old and the size of a two year old! Must be the
goat milk!

If you're interested in getting some milk please email me. We
are in the Mtn Grove area in the Ozarks.

Hi,
I'm Pat Stewart of Hames & Axle Farm in Ashburnham, MA. We are considering
building  a grade a goat cheese operation, primarily raw hard cheeses, but
would like to also do a fresh chevre. However, MA law says there is no legal
way to do that, so we'll just keep making it for ourselves.

I raise Nigerian dwarf dairy goats, and am about to publish a book on
keeping them as personal milkers. In MA, every town has a different rule
about raw milk, but most, except the BIG cities, allow for small farms.
Nigerians are a great way to have a raw milk supply without driving forever.
And they're fun and cute too.

I have not been very active in fluid milk issues, but we do drink our milk
raw, and have seen dramatic changes in our allergy symptoms. We've got 15
does right now, and I'm trying to cycle us over to a full year milk supply,
but currently we do buy regular cow's milk at times, and lots of
anti-histamine pills to supplement the loss of the goat's milk. We'll get
there though.

I love hearing about all the new dairies and existing ones. I am a big
proponent of the goat industry, especially dairy and am glad to see
individual producers starting to communicate about dairy products, and not
just show goats. (I show too, but appreciate the whole working goat, not
just the pretty show doe/buck.)

Pat Stewart

Hames & Axle Farm Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats
Surfing Goat Soaps
Ashburnham, MA 01430
www.hamesaxle.com


-----Original Message-----
From: raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 3:19 AM
To: raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [raw_goatmilk] Digest Number 0


There are 10 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

       1. Introduction...
            From: "Rona Myers Sullivan" <rona@...>
       2. Intro
            From: "gartnerus" <gartnerus@...>
       3. Hi!
            From: "Alicia" <CreationsFTHeart@...>
       4. new member
            From: "oklamanchas" <fouroaksfarm@...>
       5. Introduction
            From: "willowlane98" <jhdrake@...>
       6. Re: Intro
            From: "Rona Myers Sullivan" <rona@...>
       7. dairy equipment..
            From: "Rona Myers Sullivan" <rona@...>
       8. LICENSED RAW COW MILK IN TEXAS
            From: "alyshagodfrey" <alysha@...>
       9. hello  from  David(new member)
            From: "David Armburst" <rockgoddess1fan@...>
      10. RAW MILK
            From: "Bobbie Milsom" <CUDCHEWERS@...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
    Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:59:47 -0000
    From: "Rona Myers Sullivan" <rona@...>
Subject: Introduction...

   I do so appreciate the work that so many of you are doing to produce good
raw milk, but
also appreciate those of you who study and drink it.

I own and run a micro-dairy in Eastern Virginia, where the Rappahannock
River meets the
Chesapeake Bay.  I produce aged raw milk goat cheese from fresh warm milk,
with no
rennet, starters, cooking, etc.  I discovered several years ago, that the
fresh product was
called Bonnyclabber, and that the Blue Ridge where I was born, was dubbed
"Bonnyclabber
Country" by settlers traveling through and settling Virginia during the
1700's.  The term
was originally an Irish one, meaning clabbered milk, but was anglicized to
Bonnyclabber
by the Scotch-Irish.  During my dairy and genealogical research I also
learned that my
ancestral Scotch-Irish, were not actually Scots and Irish marrying in the
new country.  They
were in fact, Presbyterians Scots who had removed to Ulster in Northern
Ireland for a
hundred years previous to coming to America.  They mixed Irish traditions
with their own,
and brought them to America.  Back in Ireland, clabbered milk and cereal
grains were
eaten together daily, in America cornbread was substituted, (introduced by
the American
Indian).  When I was growing up in Virginia in the late 50's, early 60's,
buttermilk with
cornbread crumbled up in it was still a daily staple....

So why is this all so important??

Raw milk, even raw buttermilk, is a heritage food that is no longer legal in
Virginia!  I
would like to be instrumental in helping change this.  That's one of the
reasons that I'm so
vocal about how I make the cheese from naturally clabbered milk.  Another
reason is that
the natural enzymes are so healthy and beneficial, and yet another is that
this process
makes cheesemaking accessible to every home kitchen, with only
milk......just like it used
to be, when there were no suppliers to get rennet to the backwoods.

I am a new Weston A. Price member, and have requested to be a chapter
leader, as well.
There's no one close enough for me to get raw milk year round, and I'd
really like to help
change that.  It's awfully funny that I am, and have been, working so hard
to produce pure
raw milk to make my cheese, and can only get raw milk myself five months of
the year!
This 'healthy' life is often very taxing, without enough sleep....sometimes
not very healthy,
but very satisfying.

We also designed a 12X24 dairy that includes milking parlor, milk room, and
cheese room:
all compliant with Grade A  specifications.  We had a $3,500.00 Amish-Built
Barn dropped
onto the property.  Then we put up all the partitions for the rooms, and
outfitted them as
much as we could with used equipment.  Total cost was $16,500.00. It was
important for
me to create a legal cheesemaking facility that would be almost as
accessible as the 'just
milk' cheesemaking process.  Of course since we are small and only use raw
milk, we don't
have to have any bulk tanks or pasteurizers.  We don't have bottling
equipment, as we are
only making cheese.

I will teach my first class in a couple of weeks:

TRADITIONAL AMERICAN FARMHOUSE CHEESES-----------BONNYCLABBER
OCTOBER 1-2  Heamour Farm, Madison NY
Rona Sullivan from Sullivan Farm Pond in Deltaville VA
explains her technique of making cheese without culture or rennet.
Contact Shannon Nichols at 315-893-7616 or e-mail: heamour1@...


Rona Myers Sullivan
Sullivan's Pond Farm, Inc.
http://www.bonnyclabbercheese.com
http://www.southerncheese.com
Deltaville, Virginia

"Man cannot live by bread alone...
          He'd better have some goat cheese and wine to go with it!"   Rona








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
    Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:08:37 -0000
    From: "gartnerus" <gartnerus@...>
Subject: Intro

I am trying to start my own small grade A goat dairy.  Trying to find
prices for equipment has been my greatest challenge.  Anyone who may
have leads or ideas of equipment please let me know.  I am in need of
a in line milking machine with holding tank and bottler.  It seems
that the cheese making equipment is out there and much easier to find.

I have a hope to have this done by next year.  Though,  that is
beginning to fade.  I didn't imagine that equipment would be this hard
to find.  Once the equipment is found, then the milk room will be
built around the equipment.  I live in AZ.  Unforturnately, not like
WI where there is dairy equipment in every old barn around.


My family came from the south and I remember my grandmother loved her
buttermilk & cornbread!

Lisa Gartner
Wilhoit, AZ




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
    Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:56:33 -0000
    From: "Alicia" <CreationsFTHeart@...>
Subject: Hi!

I have a little family farm in Elizabeth, CO (near the Denver metro
area) and am starting a goat share program, which is the only legal
way to have access to raw milk in Colorado.  I will post more info
later but just wanted to say "Hi!"





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
    Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:59:00 -0000
    From: "oklamanchas" <fouroaksfarm@...>
Subject: new member

Hi, I am Georg Ann and I live in NE Okla.. We have a LaMancha herd
that we milk. In Okla. we can sell 100 gal./month as long as the
customers come to the farm for pick up. I believe Missouri and Arkansas
have a similar law.

      I know for a fact that raw goat milk helps people in renal
failure. I have seen the kidney tests (BUN, Creatinine and Phosphorus)
of several persons actually go to normal or decrease after being on
raw goat milk. I am sure there are many producers out there that have
similar stories for other diseases.

      There are a number of children alive today because of raw goat
milk. Over the years many mothers have used my milk for their children.
The first mother that bought the milk was asked why she put her little
boy on it. She stated that he had rashes,  ear infections and other
allergies and was to have surgery to have tubes in his ears. She
started him on raw goat milk and he no longer had ear infections so,
did not need the surgery. Also the allergies/rashes were gone.

      Several older persons have used the milk due to irritable bowel,
upset stomachs and other G-I problems. One lady said everything she
ate bothered her. She tried the goat milk and told me her stomach
calmed down before she could sip  all the milk in the glass. She had
been so worried about getting enough protein and was so happy to find
a protein source that agreed with her.

      Lets hear some more stories about the  most wonderful food in the
world, RAW GOAT MILK.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
    Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:23:53 -0000
    From: "willowlane98" <jhdrake@...>
Subject: Introduction

Hi,
We have a goat dairy in West Jordan, Utah. We are state-inspected
and state-licensed and we sell both raw and pasteurized milk. We
also sell cheese, yogurt, soap and lotion (all made with goat milk,
of course). We raise Saanens, Nubians and Alpines and have about 200
in our herd.

We can sell the raw milk from our farm. It is Utah law that
customers have to come to the farm to purchase raw milk. Just this
year we have been required to put a warning label on each bottle of
milk that studies have shown that raw milk can cause gastro-
intestinal disease and that raw milk no matter how carefully
produced may be unsafe.

Nevertheless, we have many customers who insist on raw milk.

I look forward to reading the postings to this list. I may not have
time to write much myself however because a goat dairy is a very
labor intensive business.

Jeanette Drake
Drake Family Farms Goat Dairy
West Jordan, Utah




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
    Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 02:54:05 -0000
    From: "Rona Myers Sullivan" <rona@...>
Subject: Re: Intro

--- In raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com, "gartnerus" <gartnerus@y...> wrote:
> I am trying to start my own small grade A goat dairy.  Trying to find
> prices for equipment has been my greatest challenge.  Anyone who may
> have leads or ideas of equipment please let me know.  I am in need of
> a in line milking machine with holding tank and bottler. > Lisa Gartner
> Wilhoit, AZ

Try http://www.smallldairy.com  She has a resource pamphlet for small
producers, to help
find equipment.  Vicki Dunaway who put it together also moderates a yahoo
group for small
dairies.  I'm on it, but can't think of the name for the moment!  It may be
on her website.

Rona




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
    Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:09:16 -0000
    From: "Rona Myers Sullivan" <rona@...>
Subject: dairy equipment..

You might try dairycreamery@yahoogroups.com

Rona




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
    Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:09:24 -0000
    From: "alyshagodfrey" <alysha@...>
Subject: LICENSED RAW COW MILK IN TEXAS

Hi, we are Sand Creek Farm in Bryan, TX - the ONLY licensed Raw Cow
Milk Dairy in the state.  We strive to utilize all natural means for
tending our cows and implementing all organic methods possible.  We
are GRASS FED ONLY as belong to a grass fed group to grow and learn
to be better and better grass farmers for the continual improved
health and living conditions of our animals.  We love Jersey cows
and our herd is comprised of these beautiful animals.  We pasture
keep our cows and adhere to one time per day milking.  Our cows
suckle their calves so that the calves have the best shot at a
healthy life.  The bull calves usually go to a grass fed beef
program run by our friends and the heifer calves will most likely
end up in milk production.  We utilize draft horses to work our farm
to spread manure, grate the road, make and bring in loose hay, work
the all naturally grown orchard and garden, etc.  We also utilize
manure tea several times per year along with other natural products
to build our microbes, earthworms and dung beetles.  We take soil
samples and work with the ground to find what it needs to grow
healthier more nutritious grass and then try and implement a program
of all natural products or crops to build the soil.  We work with
different farms and labs trying to discover more and more natural
ways to implement effective husbandry of our animals and work at
allowing the natural process to create a symbiotic relationship
between them.  All of this to let you know that there is a clean,
good source for raw cow milk in TX that is licensed and tested for
your assurance.  For more questions please e-mail me at
alysha@... or visit our web site at www.sandcreekfarm.net.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
    Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:32:05 -0500
    From: "David Armburst" <rockgoddess1fan@...>
Subject: hello  from  David(new member)

hello,My  name  is  David,.i'm from  missouri.as  of  this morning.i  am  a

new  member.i  have  no knowledge  of  raw goats  milk.however, i joined  to

find  out  all  there is  to  know.and  much more.thank  you  for    your
time  and  thank  you for  making  me  part  of  your  group. P.S. i  join
through  an  email i received  from  joyluv70@...  to  you  as

   well.have  a  great  day everyone.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
    Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:32:23 -0000
    From: "Bobbie Milsom" <CUDCHEWERS@...>
Subject: RAW MILK



I've never drank raw milk but I have noticed my babies do better on raw
milk then they do the pasturized.  Last year I had two of my dairy Does
tested for CAE and CL.  They both came back negative.  This year I will
test the rest of them.

I know that testing them doesn't assure me that the milk will be clean
but I do hope testing them will give me more confidence in my breeding
program that I'm at least avoiding kids getting some of the worst
diseases.

What are some of the other good points.

Bobbie Milsom





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links




------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've never drank raw milk but I have noticed my babies do better on raw
milk then they do the pasturized.  Last year I had two of my dairy Does
tested for CAE and CL.  They both came back negative.  This year I will
test the rest of them.

I know that testing them doesn't assure me that the milk will be clean
but I do hope testing them will give me more confidence in my breeding
program that I'm at least avoiding kids getting some of the worst
diseases.

What are some of the other good points.

Bobbie Milsom

hello,My  name  is  David,.i'm from  missouri.as  of  this morning.i  am  a
new  member.i  have  no knowledge  of  raw goats  milk.however, i joined  to
find  out  all  there is  to  know.and  much more.thank  you  for    your
time  and  thank  you for  making  me  part  of  your  group. P.S. i  join
through  an  email i received  from  joyluv70@...  to  you  as
   well.have  a  great  day everyone.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

Hi, we are Sand Creek Farm in Bryan, TX - the ONLY licensed Raw Cow
Milk Dairy in the state.  We strive to utilize all natural means for
tending our cows and implementing all organic methods possible.  We
are GRASS FED ONLY as belong to a grass fed group to grow and learn
to be better and better grass farmers for the continual improved
health and living conditions of our animals.  We love Jersey cows
and our herd is comprised of these beautiful animals.  We pasture
keep our cows and adhere to one time per day milking.  Our cows
suckle their calves so that the calves have the best shot at a
healthy life.  The bull calves usually go to a grass fed beef
program run by our friends and the heifer calves will most likely
end up in milk production.  We utilize draft horses to work our farm
to spread manure, grate the road, make and bring in loose hay, work
the all naturally grown orchard and garden, etc.  We also utilize
manure tea several times per year along with other natural products
to build our microbes, earthworms and dung beetles.  We take soil
samples and work with the ground to find what it needs to grow
healthier more nutritious grass and then try and implement a program
of all natural products or crops to build the soil.  We work with
different farms and labs trying to discover more and more natural
ways to implement effective husbandry of our animals and work at
allowing the natural process to create a symbiotic relationship
between them.  All of this to let you know that there is a clean,
good source for raw cow milk in TX that is licensed and tested for
your assurance.  For more questions please e-mail me at
alysha@... or visit our web site at www.sandcreekfarm.net.

You might try dairycreamery@yahoogroups.com

Rona

--- In raw_goatmilk@yahoogroups.com, "gartnerus" <gartnerus@y...> wrote:
> I am trying to start my own small grade A goat dairy.  Trying to find
> prices for equipment has been my greatest challenge.  Anyone who may
> have leads or ideas of equipment please let me know.  I am in need of
> a in line milking machine with holding tank and bottler. > Lisa Gartner
> Wilhoit, AZ

Try http://www.smallldairy.com  She has a resource pamphlet for small producers,
to help
find equipment.  Vicki Dunaway who put it together also moderates a yahoo group
for small
dairies.  I'm on it, but can't think of the name for the moment!  It may be on
her website.

Rona

Hi,
We have a goat dairy in West Jordan, Utah. We are state-inspected
and state-licensed and we sell both raw and pasteurized milk. We
also sell cheese, yogurt, soap and lotion (all made with goat milk,
of course). We raise Saanens, Nubians and Alpines and have about 200
in our herd.

We can sell the raw milk from our farm. It is Utah law that
customers have to come to the farm to purchase raw milk. Just this
year we have been required to put a warning label on each bottle of
milk that studies have shown that raw milk can cause gastro-
intestinal disease and that raw milk no matter how carefully
produced may be unsafe.

Nevertheless, we have many customers who insist on raw milk.

I look forward to reading the postings to this list. I may not have
time to write much myself however because a goat dairy is a very
labor intensive business.

Jeanette Drake
Drake Family Farms Goat Dairy
West Jordan, Utah

Hi, I am Georg Ann and I live in NE Okla.. We have a LaMancha herd
that we milk. In Okla. we can sell 100 gal./month as long as the
customers come to the farm for pick up. I believe Missouri and Arkansas
have a similar law.

      I know for a fact that raw goat milk helps people in renal
failure. I have seen the kidney tests (BUN, Creatinine and Phosphorus)
of several persons actually go to normal or decrease after being on
raw goat milk. I am sure there are many producers out there that have
similar stories for other diseases.

      There are a number of children alive today because of raw goat
milk. Over the years many mothers have used my milk for their children.
The first mother that bought the milk was asked why she put her little
boy on it. She stated that he had rashes,  ear infections and other
allergies and was to have surgery to have tubes in his ears. She
started him on raw goat milk and he no longer had ear infections so,
did not need the surgery. Also the allergies/rashes were gone.

      Several older persons have used the milk due to irritable bowel,
upset stomachs and other G-I problems. One lady said everything she
ate bothered her. She tried the goat milk and told me her stomach
calmed down before she could sip  all the milk in the glass. She had
been so worried about getting enough protein and was so happy to find
a protein source that agreed with her.

      Lets hear some more stories about the  most wonderful food in the
world, RAW GOAT MILK.

I have a little family farm in Elizabeth, CO (near the Denver metro
area) and am starting a goat share program, which is the only legal
way to have access to raw milk in Colorado.  I will post more info
later but just wanted to say "Hi!"

I am trying to start my own small grade A goat dairy.  Trying to find
prices for equipment has been my greatest challenge.  Anyone who may
have leads or ideas of equipment please let me know.  I am in need of
a in line milking machine with holding tank and bottler.  It seems
that the cheese making equipment is out there and much easier to find.

I have a hope to have this done by next year.  Though,  that is
beginning to fade.  I didn't imagine that equipment would be this hard
to find.  Once the equipment is found, then the milk room will be
built around the equipment.  I live in AZ.  Unforturnately, not like
WI where there is dairy equipment in every old barn around.


My family came from the south and I remember my grandmother loved her
buttermilk & cornbread!

Lisa Gartner
Wilhoit, AZ

I do so appreciate the work that so many of you are doing to produce good raw
milk, but
also appreciate those of you who study and drink it.

I own and run a micro-dairy in Eastern Virginia, where the Rappahannock River
meets the
Chesapeake Bay.  I produce aged raw milk goat cheese from fresh warm milk, with
no
rennet, starters, cooking, etc.  I discovered several years ago, that the fresh
product was
called Bonnyclabber, and that the Blue Ridge where I was born, was dubbed
"Bonnyclabber
Country" by settlers traveling through and settling Virginia during the 1700's. 
The term
was originally an Irish one, meaning clabbered milk, but was anglicized to
Bonnyclabber
by the Scotch-Irish.  During my dairy and genealogical research I also learned
that my
ancestral Scotch-Irish, were not actually Scots and Irish marrying in the new
country.  They
were in fact, Presbyterians Scots who had removed to Ulster in Northern Ireland
for a
hundred years previous to coming to America.  They mixed Irish traditions with
their own,
and brought them to America.  Back in Ireland, clabbered milk and cereal grains
were
eaten together daily, in America cornbread was substituted, (introduced by the
American
Indian).  When I was growing up in Virginia in the late 50's, early 60's,
buttermilk with
cornbread crumbled up in it was still a daily staple....

So why is this all so important??

Raw milk, even raw buttermilk, is a heritage food that is no longer legal in
Virginia!  I
would like to be instrumental in helping change this.  That's one of the reasons
that I'm so
vocal about how I make the cheese from naturally clabbered milk.  Another reason
is that
the natural enzymes are so healthy and beneficial, and yet another is that this
process
makes cheesemaking accessible to every home kitchen, with only milk......just
like it used
to be, when there were no suppliers to get rennet to the backwoods.

I am a new Weston A. Price member, and have requested to be a chapter leader, as
well.
There's no one close enough for me to get raw milk year round, and I'd really
like to help
change that.  It's awfully funny that I am, and have been, working so hard to
produce pure
raw milk to make my cheese, and can only get raw milk myself five months of the
year!
This 'healthy' life is often very taxing, without enough sleep....sometimes not
very healthy,
but very satisfying.

We also designed a 12X24 dairy that includes milking parlor, milk room, and
cheese room:
all compliant with Grade A  specifications.  We had a $3,500.00 Amish-Built Barn
dropped
onto the property.  Then we put up all the partitions for the rooms, and
outfitted them as
much as we could with used equipment.  Total cost was $16,500.00. It was
important for
me to create a legal cheesemaking facility that would be almost as accessible as
the 'just
milk' cheesemaking process.  Of course since we are small and only use raw milk,
we don't
have to have any bulk tanks or pasteurizers.  We don't have bottling equipment,
as we are
only making cheese.

I will teach my first class in a couple of weeks:

TRADITIONAL AMERICAN FARMHOUSE CHEESES-----------BONNYCLABBER
OCTOBER 1-2  Heamour Farm, Madison NY
Rona Sullivan from Sullivan Farm Pond in Deltaville VA
explains her technique of making cheese without culture or rennet.
Contact Shannon Nichols at 315-893-7616 or e-mail: heamour1@...


Rona Myers Sullivan
Sullivan's Pond Farm, Inc.
http://www.bonnyclabbercheese.com
http://www.southerncheese.com
Deltaville, Virginia

"Man cannot live by bread alone...
          He'd better have some goat cheese and wine to go with it!"   Rona