Dear Readers,

My name is Bryn Orr and I am currently employed at the
Australian College of Natural Medicine, Bribane, Australia, as a
lecturer in Chinese Exercise Therapy (Taijiquan, Qigong, Yoga)
and Oriental Massage (Tui Na, An Mo, Dian Xue, etc) within the
colleges Acupuncture Degree Progam.

I am interested in the Human Energy Paradigm and research
that quantifies the nature of qi and its associated cultivation
practices.  My duties within the college require me to transmit
this knowledge to the learners in a way they can understand and
in a practical fashion.  It is great to see such ernest discussion,
this can only breed growth and greater understanding.

My website "Beiji Healing Arts Homepage" contains a number of
articles I have published, including "Towards a new
interpretation of Taoist Alchemy" which is an attempt to explain
some of the physiological changes that occur during the practice
of Daoist meditation and qigong.

The address for Beiji Healing Arts is:

http://silverseapublishing.virtualave.net

Regards,

Bryn Orr

Hi everyone,

It is excellent to see lively discussion and debate on the topic of
qi research.

My name is Bryn Orr and I am a lecturer in Chinese Exercise
Therapy (Qigong, Taijiquan) and Qigong Bodywork (Tui Na, Dian
Xue, An Mo, Wai Qi Liao Fa) at the Australian College of Natural
Medicine, which offer degree status programmes in
Acupuncture, Herbs, Martial Arts Instruction, etc.

  Due to the nature of my work I spend quite alot of time
researching the human energy paradigm and have had a
number of articles published in the Pacific Journal of Oriental
Medicine, Australasian Martial Arts and others.  Some of these
articles are featured on my webpage 'Beiji Healing Arts
Homepage' :

http://silverseapublishing.virtualave.net

One of these articles "Towards a new interpretation of Taoist
Alchemy" contains my bio-oscilator theory of Taoist Alchemy
which posits a possible physiological explaination of some of
the phenomenon associated with this type of qi work.  This
theory also explores the commonalities of Kundalini, Taoist
Alchemy and other systems.

I hope you enjoy this material.

Regards,

Bryn Orr

Hi,

I hope everyone is having a great summer.

What is Qigong?  If you open 100 books on Qigong you may get 101
definitions about it. In the First World Symposium on Self Healing and
Consciousness Power (see http://www.wishus.org/conference ), Professor
Zhongpeng Lin of China Academy of Qigong proposed the following definition
on Qigong.  I would like to hear some comments and opinion, and hopefully
we can come up with a definition most of us may agree and use in our research.

According to professor Lin, "Qigong is a self-training method through
tempering consciousness to improve health of both body and mind."  This
definition has the following threefold meanings

(1) About the method, it is the exercise of consciousness. Of course,
qigong also requires physical exercise and regulation of breathing; but
these are not so important as the exercise of consciousness.  Herein lies
the main difference between qigong and other sports, in which physical
exercise plays the leading role while the exercise of consciousness and
regulation of breathing are measures to keep a fine form and perfect
skills.  At present qigong is being used in some modern sports, such as
archery in which it is important to maintain technical consistency
throughout a protracted contest.  The best female archers in South Korea
are taught qigong from the age of ten as part of their psychological
training  with the ultimate aim of fine performance in competition.

(2) About the purpose, it is the improvement of health of both body and
mind, as distinguished from the "hard qigong" as a pure performing art like
acrobatics.  Owing to excessive propaganda in recent years, some people
have a blind worship for "WaiQi" and "supernatural power" and even regard
them as criteria for the highest attainments of qigong.  It is true that
"WaiQi" does exist and some persons do possess extrasensory perception
under extraordinary circumstances.  But such functions should not be
overemphasized and used excessively to the detriment of the performers'
mental and physical health.  Even in ancient times, the practice of "WaiQi"
was discouraged as a "reversal of the normal process of alchemy."

(3) About the mode, it is a form of self-training.  Unfortunately, not just
a few people failed to understand this and readily believed in deceptive
preaching about "elixir", which poisoned many to death instead of bringing
a perpetual youth to them.  And it was the cause of death for more than
half of the 21 emperors of the Tang Dynasty (618 - 907).  In the 11th
century, a qigong master named Zhang Pingshou strongly opposed the making
and usage of "elixir", pointing out that the "lead and mercury" in qigong
classics were metaphors for "primordial energy and essence" which exist in
everybody and can be improved through persistent qigong exercises."

Note: If you want to respond to the group, do not just reply, but put the
following address in your send to: qiresearch@yahoogroups.com

Kevin


:-)  :-)
Kevin Chen, Ph.D. MPH.
Department of Psychiatry
UMDNJ-New Jersey Medical School

Dear Kevin,

The general definition and the (1) part sounded great.  On the (2) and (3), I
don't think this is going to be something that most people in the world will
encounter, and I'm concerned about definitions that put fear into people
coming to Qigong.  Most people will only learn basic breathing and relaxation
techniques for general health, and any fear inducing warnings are not really
applicable to them and can retard the world's embrace of these much needed
health tools.  In my following definition I'll expand on why I feel it is
crucial to encourage the world to embrace Qigong as fast as possible.

I would like to submit a definition:

Qigong is a highly sophisticated system of biofeedback and classical
conditioning enabling the user to daily scan the mind and body for
acculumated stress, and combine breathing, visualization, and gentle motion
techniques to deeply cleanse the mind and body of those stress loads or
instances of blocked energy, "before" they create organic damage.

The natural healthful flow of life energy is impeded and limited by our daily
accumulation of stress, which is actually thoughts, feelings, and perceptions
that we "hold onto" in our mind, heart, and thereby atomic physical
structure.  Qigong's many techniques help us wash these accumulated loads
from us and thereby allow us to effortlessly open up to the limitlessly
healing potential of life energy, relaxing open, and releasing our mental,
emotional, and physical grip on old stagnant realities.

In this modern age a stress plague is negatively affecting humanity more than
any plague in history, causing 70% of illness and the 6 leading causes of
death.  This is because change becomes stress damage as our mind and body
cling to "old patterns" of living.  The speed of technological change is now
doubling exponentially every 18 months, and that speed is increasing to
unimaginable levels in coming years.  Qigong's ability to enable human beings
to continually "let go" of old realities, mentally, physically, and
emotionally, so that we can clearly expand into continual evolution of
thought and action may actually be one of the main reasons why humanity
survives the bone crushing onslaught of the future.  The act of Qigong
breathing encourages us to "let go" and to allow our mind and body to
"ungrip" on whatever we hold.  This facilitates the act of evolution.  This
is desperately needed in this age of change.

It may be no accident that this 2,000 year old health science is now
available and highly developed for a world audience crying out for it.
Qigong teachers worldwide have spent the last 20 years experiencing Qigong
and are now positioned to explain it to their native cultures in their own
native languages in nearly every country of the world.  This is a mind
boggling synchronicity.  Plus the fact that Qigong is now practiced by so
many people in so many cultures, qigong itself is evolving into more and
more.  The fact that scientists, physicians, and social scientists practice
and use qigong in their professions is expanding the promise of qigong
exponentially.

What an incredible time to be alive and using the powerful gifts of qigong
that centuries of Chinese research has now offered to the world like a most
precious pearl.

Bill Douglas, World T'ai Chi & Qigong Day Founder

Bill, people using whatever method of healing should be informed of any
potential adverse effects. All systems of healing (yes, even qigong) have the
potential for adverse effects.

Karen Clark DC, ND

A Note about "Elixir":

"Elixir" here means "Dan" in Chinese, a very important concept in Daoist
Qigong tradition.  Elixir or Dan consists of "internal elixir" (Nei Dan)
and "external elixir" (Wai Dan).   Internal elixir refers to the
concentration of Qi, or crystal of vital energy -- you may "see" it in some
skilled Qigong masters (long-term practitioners) in live if you have
developed some form of  special vision (Third eye?).  External elixir
refers to some kind of pill (dan) in Daoist tradition which need long
efforts and complicated techniques to generate, and it was said that
external elixir could prolong a person's life (or even live "forever"?) --
But very few successful cases on external elixir was recorded in the
history.  Many tragedies were related to the process of cultivating or
taking external "elixir".

Kevin

At 01:09 PM 08/11/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>"Elixir" is the Chi itself. It is not some concoction that is brewed up &
>poured into the body.
>    Hence terms like, "Tan T'ien" (Elixir Field, or, Elixir Heaven) It is
> a place where Elixir (Chi) gathers... Tao Tan Pai (Taoist Elixir Style)
> Is one of the most, if not the most Internal of all the Kung Fu systems,
> and, includes quite a few *VERY INTENSIVE* Chi Kung sets.

:-)  :-)
Kevin Chen, Ph.D. MPH.
Department of Psychiatry
UMDNJ-New Jersey Medical School

Hi all,

I would like to share with you two sections of Chapter One in Zhuan Falun by
Li Hongzhi regarding the origing and source of Qi Gong  which I found very
inspiring. The whole book can be viewed and free download at falundafa.org.

Jingduan Yang, MD
Department of Psychiatry and Human Behaviour
Thomas Jefferson University Hospital
Philadelphia
215 955 8420 (w)

Qigong is Prehistoric Culture

What is qigong? Many qigong masters speak about this. What I am saying is
different from what they say. Many qigong masters talk about it at their
levels, while I am talking about the understanding of qigong from a higher
level. It is completely different from their understanding. Some qigong
masters claim that qigong has a history of two thousand years in our country.
There are also people who say that qigong has a history of three thousand
years. Some people mention that qigong has a history of five thousand years,
which approximates that of our Chinese civilization. Still others say that,
based upon archaeological excavations, it has a history of seven thousand
years, and thus far exceeds the history of our Chinese civilization. But no
matter how they understand it, qigong would not exist much earlier than the
history of human civilization. According to Darwin’s theory of evolution,
humans evolved from aquatic-plants to aquatic-animals. Then, they moved to
live on land and eventually trees. Again on land, they became apes, and in the
end evolved into modern humans with culture and thought. Based on that
calculation, it has not been over ten thousand years since the actual
emergence of human civilization. Looking further back, there was not even
notekeeping through tying knots. Those people were dressed in tree leaves and
ate raw meat. Looking back still further, they were completely wild or
primitive people. They might not have even known how to use fire.

Yet we have found a problem. A lot of cultural relics in many places of the
world date back far beyond the history of our human civilization. These
ancient remains have quite an advanced level of craftsmanship. In terms of
artistic value, they are at quite an advanced level. Modern humankind is
simply imitating the arts of ancient peoples, and their arts are of great
artistic value. They are, however, relics from over 100 thousand years ago,
several hundred thousand years ago, several million years, or even over 100
million years ago. Think about it, everyone: Aren’t they making a mockery of
today’s history? It is, in fact, no joke, for humankind has always been
improving and rediscovering itself. This is how society develops. The initial
understanding may not be absolutely correct.

Many people may have heard of "prehistoric culture," also known as
"prehistoric civilization." We will talk about prehistoric civilization. On
this earth, there are continents of Asia, Europe, South America, North
America, Oceania, Africa, and Antarctica. Geologists call these the
continental plates. From the formation of the continental plates to this day,
several tens of millions of years have passed. Namely, many continents have
emerged from the ocean floor, and many continents have also sunk to the sea
bottom. It has been over tens of millions of years since they stabilized at
the present state. Under the water of many oceans, however, some tall and
large ancient architecture has been discovered. These buildings were crafted
very beautifully and are not the cultural heritage of our modern humankind.
Then they must have been built before sinking to the ocean floor. Who created
these civilizations tens of millions of years ago? At that time, our human
race was not even apes. How could we create something of such great wisdom?
Archaeologists around the world have discovered an organism called trilobite
that existed between 600 and 260 million years ago. This kind of organism
disappeared 260 million years ago. An American scientist has discovered a
trilobite fossil with a human footprint on it; the footprint was clearly
printed on the fossil by a person in shoes. Isn’t this mocking historians?
According to Darwin’s theory of evolution, how could there be human beings 260
million years ago?

In the museum of the National University of Peru, there is a rock engraved
with a human figure. Upon investigation, it was determined that this human
figure was engraved thirty thousand years ago. This human figure, however, is
dressed in clothes, hat, and shoes, with a telescope in hand, and he is
observing the celestial body. How could people weave cloth and wear clothes
thirty thousand years ago? More inconceivably, he was observing the celestial
body with a telescope and had a certain amount of astronomical knowledge. We
always think that it was Galileo, a European, who invented the telescope,
giving it a history of only over three hundred years. Yet who invented the
telescope thirty thousand years ago? There are still many unsolved puzzles.
For instance, there are frescoes engraved in many caves of France, South
Africa, and the Alps that appear realistic and lifelike. The figures therein
engraved look remarkably exquisite and are colored with a mineral paint. These
people, however, all don contemporary clothes that look something like Western
suits, and they wear tight pants. Some people hold something like smoking
pipes, while others carry walking sticks and wear hats. How could the apes of
several hundred thousand years ago reach such an advanced artistic level?

To give another example of a more remote age, the Gabon Republic in Africa has
uranium ore. This country is relatively underdeveloped. It cannot make uranium
on its own and exports the ore to developed countries. In 1972, a French
manufacturer imported its uranium ore. After lab tests, the uranium ore was
found to have been extracted and utilized. They found this quite unusual and
sent out scientists to study it. Scientists from many other countries all went
there to investigate. In the end, this uranium mine was verified as a
large-scale nuclear reactor with a very rational layout. Even our modern
people cannot possibly create this, so when was it built then? It was
constructed 2 billion years ago and was in operation for 500 thousand years.
Those are simply astronomical figures, and they cannot be explained at all
with Darwin’s theory of evolution. There are many such examples. What today’s
scientific and technological community has discovered is sufficient to change
our present textbooks. Once humankind’s conventional mentalities form a
systematic way of working and thinking, new ideas are very difficult to
accept. When the truth emerges, people do not dare to accept it and
instinctively reject it. Due to the influence of traditional conventions, no
one today has systematically compiled such findings. Thus, human concepts
always lag behind developments. Once you speak of these things, there will be
people who call them superstitious and reject them—despite their already
having been discovered. They are just not yet publicized widely.

Many bold scientists abroad have already publicly recognized this as
prehistoric culture and a civilization prior to this of our humankind. In
other words, there existed more than one period of civilization before our
civilization. Through unearthed relics, we have found products that are not of
only one period of civilization. It is thus believed that after each of the
many times when human civilizations were annihilated, only a small number of
people survived and they lived a primitive life. Then, they gradually
multiplied in number to become the new human race, beginning a new
civilization. Later, they were again exterminated and would then once again
produce a new human race. It just goes through such different periodical
changes. Physicists hold that the motion of matter follows certain laws. The
changes of our entire universe also follow laws.

It is impossible that our planet Earth, in this immense universe and the Milky
Way, has been orbiting very smoothly at all times. It might have bumped into a
certain planet or run into other problems, leading to great disasters. From
the perspective of our supernormal abilities, it was just arranged that way. I
made a careful investigation once and found that humankind has undergone
complete annihilation eighty-one times. With a little remaining from the
previous civilization, only a small number of people would survive and enter
the next period, again living a primitive life. As the human population
increased, civilization would eventually emerge again. Humanity has
experienced such periodical changes eighty-one times, and yet I have not
traced them to the end. Chinese people talk about cosmic timing, favorable
earth conditions, and human harmony. Different cosmic changes and different
cosmic timings can bring about different conditions in ordinary human society.
According to physics, the motion of matter follows certain laws—the same is
true with the motion of the universe.

The above reference to prehistoric culture primarily tells you that qigong was
not invented by this humankind of ours, either. It was inherited through a
quite remote age and it was also a type of prehistoric culture. From Buddhist
scriptures we can also find some related statements. Sakyamuni once said that
he succeeded in cultivation practice many hundred millions of kalpa19 (jie)
ago. How many years are there in one kalpa? One kalpa is a number for hundreds
of millions of years. Such a huge number is simply inconceivable. If true,
doesn’t this agree with the history of humankind and the changes of the entire
earth? In addition, Sakyamuni also mentioned that there were seven primitive
Buddhas before him, that he had masters, etc., all of whom succeeded in
cultivation practices many hundred million kalpa ago. If all this is real, are
there such cultivation ways among those true, traditional practices and
genuine teachings taught in our society today? If you ask me, it is certainly
so, but they are seldom seen. Nowadays, sham qigong, phony qigong, and those
people possessed by spirits  have all made up something at will to deceive
people, and their number exceeds that of genuine qigong practices by many
times. Discerning the genuine and the sham is difficult. A genuine qigong
practice is not easy to distinguish, and neither is it easy to find.

In fact, not only is qigong passed down from a distant age, Taiji,20 Hetu,
Luoshu,21 the Book of Changes,22 the Eight Triagrams,23 etc., are all
inherited from prehistory. Thus, if we study and understand them from the
perspective of everyday people today, we will not be able to comprehend them
by any means. From an everyday person’s level, perspective, and frame of mind,
one cannot understand real things.

Qigong is Cultivation Practice

Since qigong has such a long history, what’s it for? Let me tell everyone that
since we are of a great cultivation way in the Buddha School, we of course
cultivate Buddhahood. In the Tao School, one of course cultivates the Tao to
attain the Tao. Let me tell everyone that "Buddha" is not a superstition. It
is a word from Sanskrit, an ancient Indian language. When it was introduced to
China, it was called "Fo Tuo."24 There were also people who translated it as
"Fu Tu."25 As the word was passed around, our Chinese people left out one
character and called it "Fo." What does it mean in Chinese? It means "an
enlightened person," one who has become enlightened through cultivation
practice. What’s superstitious in this?

Think about it, everyone: One can develop supernormal abilities through
cultivation practice. In the world today, six supernormal abilities are
recognized, yet they are not limited to these alone. I would say that over ten
thousand genuine supernormal abilities exist. As a person sits there, without
moving his hands or feet, he is able to do what others cannot do even with
their hands and feet, and he can see the actual truth of each dimension in the
universe. This person can see the truth of the universe and things that an
everyday person cannot. Isn’t he a person who has attained the Tao through
practicing cultivation? Isn’t he a great enlightened person? How can he be
considered the same as an everyday person? Isn’t he an enlightened person
through cultivation practice? Isn’t it correct to call him an enlightened
person? In ancient Indian language he is called a Buddha. Actually, that is
it. This is what qigong is for.

Speaking of qigong, some people might say, "Without an illness, who would
practice qigong?" This implies that qigong is meant for healing illness. That
is a very, very shallow understanding. This is not your fault because many
qigong masters indeed do things such as healing illnesses and maintaining
fitness. They all talk about healing and fitness. Nobody teaches anything
toward high levels. This does not mean that their practices are not good.
Their mission is to teach things at the level of healing and fitness, and to
publicize qigong. There are many people who would like to practice cultivation
toward high levels. They have such thoughts and wishes, but they have not
obtained the right methods for cultivation, thereby causing great difficulties
and many problems. Of course, genuinely teaching a practice at high levels
involves very profound issues. Therefore, we have been responsible to people
and society, and the overall outcome of teaching the practice has been good.
Some of the things are indeed quite profound and, when discussed, may sound
like superstition. Nevertheless, we will try our best to explain them with
modern science.

Once we talk about certain issues, some people will call them superstitions.
Why is that? Such a person’s criterion is that he will consider what science
has not recognized, what he has not yet experienced, or what he thinks cannot
possibly exist, all to be superstitious and idealistic—this is his mentality.
Is this mentality correct? Should what science has not recognized or what is
beyond its development be labeled as superstitious and idealistic? Then, isn’t
this person himself being superstitious and idealistic? With this mentality,
how can science develop and make progress? Neither will human society be able
to move forward. Everything that our scientific and technological community
has invented was unknown to people in the past. If such things were all
regarded as superstitions, there would, of course, have been no need for
development. Qigong is not something idealistic. There are many people who do
not understand qigong and, thus, always consider qigong idealistic. At
present, with scientific apparatus we have found in a qigong master’s body
infrasonic waves, supersonic waves, electromagnetic waves, infrared,
ultraviolet, gamma rays, neutrons, atoms, trace metal elements, etc. Aren’t
these something of material existence? They are also of matter. Isn’t
everything made of matter? Aren’t other time-spaces also made of matter? How
can qigong be labeled "superstitious?" Since it is used for cultivation of
Buddhahood, it is bound to involve many profound issues, and we will address
them all.

Since qigong serves such a purpose, why do we call it qigong? It is, as a
matter of fact, not called "qigong." What’s it called? It is called
"cultivation practice," and it is just cultivation practice. Of course it has
other specific names, but generically speaking it is called cultivation
practice. Then, why is it called qigong? It is known that qigong has been
promoted in society for over twenty years. It first appeared in the middle of
the Great Cultural Revolution.26 Later on it reached its peak of popularity.
Think about it, everyone: The leftist ideology was quite prevalent at that
time. We will not mention what names qigong had in prehistoric civilizations.
During its development, this human civilization underwent a feudalistic
period. Therefore, it usually has names with feudalistic ingredients. Those
practices related to religions usually have names with heavy religious
overtones. For instance, the so-called "The Great Cultivation Way of Tao,"
"The Dhyana of Vajra," "The Way of Arhat,"27 "The Great Cultivation Way of
Buddha Dharma," "Nine-fold Internal Alchemy," etc., are all such things. If
these names were used during the Great Cultural Revolution, wouldn’t you be
criticized? Though those qigong masters’ wish to promote qigong was good and
they intended to help the general public heal illnesses, maintain fitness, and
improve their physical conditions—how great that would be—it would not be
allowed. People simply did not dare to use names this way. Therefore, in order
to promote qigong, many qigong masters took out two words from the texts of
Dan Jing  and Tao Zang,28  and named it "qigong". Some people even concentrate
their research in qigong terminology. There is nothing there to study. In the
past, it was just called cultivation practice. "Qigong" is only a
newly-crafted term that complies with modern people’s mindset.

Hi everyone,


I'm new to this forum, so please excuse me if i touch on subjects
that have been discussed before.

At any rate, I am thrilled to see that we have an opportunity to
share our understanding (or should I say perplexity?) regarding this
fascinating subject. If anyone is interested, there are quite a few
papers on biofied and intentionality research on our site

www.emergentmind.org - see Research Information>Leads; Archives; and
Theoretical Milestones,

as well as a number of recommended websites where you can find
additional research material. We are primarily focused on modeling
and experimental directions in alternative medicine and
parapsychology, and we'd be glad to post anyone's comments,
questions, papers, etc on our interactive boards, as long as they are
relevant to this interdisciplinary quest.

I would also be very grateful if anyone could direct me to published
references on weight(gravity) or mass-altering effects of qigong. I
seem to have heard of such accounts before, but I can't place the
source. I am particularly interested in laboratory conditions and
actual measurements - i am aware of the levitation accounts in siddhi
and other literature and have take part myself in workshops where
such weight reduction appeared to be demonstrated, but i need more
scientific protocols.

Thank you, and I'm looking forward with great anticipation to our
future discussions!


Lian Sidorov

What is Qigong?

What is perception? awareness? consciousness?
The essence? the effects? history? beneifits analysis?
breathing and circulation exercises? with movement/ ideation?
philosophical principles? physiological principles? psychological principles?
spiritual principles? self healing? waiqi healing?

The above questions to a question, what is qigong?

I think what Kevin meant when asking for a working definition is a very
practical one , gentlemen , define your terms!  Perhaps a sceintifically
identifiable, verifiable and reproducible definition would be an acceptable
paradigm.

Before going global and getting caught in a free associative experience and
being subject to the probabilities of chaos theory I have a practical
suggestion.

I suggest all of you get and read Kenneth S. Cohen's recent book, The Way of
Qigong,
from Ballantine Wellspring 1997. It is the most comprehensive writing in the
field of Qigong I have read in over 30 years study. For the academic minded,
there are over 80 pages of REFERENCES folks. Any major bookstore has it or
can get it for you.

Then maybe a discussion of, what is qigong might be profitable for all on
this list who are scientifically minded.

Ken is an ordained Taoist priest, reads and writes Mandarin, English and
French and has done his homework. He refers directly to the Taoist Canon for
many proofs of principles.

If this group is going to contribute to the field, it's parameters need to be
consistent
for credibility References must be checked out, theories and principles must
be proven, etc..A lot of this work is being done by other groups, in this
country and around the world.

Just a suggestion folks.

  We will be hosting Kenneth Cohen Oct 26,27,28 at the Atlantic City
Convention Center.
If you wish information on attending please use email below.

Best Regards
Charles Farrell
adj Professor
Richard Stockton Collegecs
Director of Tai Chi/ Qigong
Teacher Training
sifuchikung@...

Li Hongzhi writes:
>What is qigong? Many qigong masters speak about this. What I am saying is
>different from what they say. Many qigong masters talk about it at their
>levels, while I am talking about the understanding of qigong from a higher
>level. It is completely different from their understanding.

Mark Johnson writes:
What Li Hongzhi writes is obviously not from a very high level so I feel I
must respond from a higher, more spiritually evolved level so that he
doesnt confuse people any longer.
First of all, what is all that speculative nonsense doing in a qiresearch
site? The moderators of this site just lost a lot of credibility with me by
letting anyone post that unsubstantiated drivel.
Secondly, whats the big deal about the origin of qigong? If its 3,000 years
old or 3 billion, we work with and modify what we have at the present time.
I want everyone to know that the methods I teach go back 13 billion years
to the origin of the universe (this time around) so that means my insights
and methods are superior to Li Hongzhi's. So dont waste your time studying
with someone who only claims 81 distinct highly evolved civilizations. That
is a mere blink of an eye compared with the incredible knowledge and
advanced practices I have inherited since the year one.

I have studied the practices of Falun Gong and there is nothing
extraordinary about any of it. So if they are the result of 81 advanced
civilizations (and more!), then humanity surely has wasted a hell of a lot
of time on this Earth!

I understand Li Hongzhi gets some of his inspiration from outerspace
beings. Well, just last week I was speaking to the creator of this universe
and she said that what he wrote is mostly nonsense. So now who are you
going to believe? Him with his help from the UFO's or me and God?

Tomorrow I will download a 50 page report that God dictated to me yesterday
on the way things *really* are. I dont expect any objections from the
moderators of this list seeing what they let get through yesterday.

the veneral qigong grandmaster, his holiness
Mark
(spokesperson for God in the modern era)

Has this issue ever been addressed?

If qigong is performed in a weightless environment, e.g., Space Shuttle, or
on another planet where the gravity is heavier, or the moon, where it is
lighter, what theoretical effect would result?  Does the concept of the
rootedness to the earth energy need to be altered or adjusted when there is
an altogether different kind of yin qi manifesting?

For instance, when astronauts remain in a weightless environment for a
prolonged period, they always lose bone mass and density.  Does this mean the
yang qi is disproportionately stronger than yin qi causing this anomaly?

Does this also mean we must as human beings remain on our own planet, other
than a quick visit to a deli on Neptune for a quart of milk and then hurry
home?  Is space inalterably hazardous to our health, not from cosmic
radiation or hostile environmental conditions, but simply an imbalance in yin
and yang energies, from which we evolved?

Ken Gray

Charles wrote:
>I suggest all of you get and read Kenneth S. Cohen's recent book, The Way of
>Qigong,from Ballantine Wellspring 1997. It is the most comprehensive
>writing in >the field of Qigong I have read in over 30 years study. For
>the academic minded,
>there are over 80 pages of REFERENCES folks.  We will be hosting Kenneth
>Cohen >Oct 26,27,28 at the Atlantic City Convention Center.If you wish
>information on >attending please use email below.

I have barely recovered from the Li Hongzhi drivel and now I am subjected
to a thinly-disguised plug for Ken Cohen. What next?

Ken's book is NOT "the most comprehensive writing in the field of Qigong"
(even though it is one of my favorites) Jerry Alan Johnson's "Chinese
Medical Qigong Therapy" IS. Be careful when lifting this 1,000 page tomb,
you might get a hernia. (notice there is no gain for myself in mentioning
his book)

As Rich Mooney once legitimately wrote: "why shouldn't we promote Qi
workshops to the qiresearch group?" For myself, I just dont feel it is the
appropriate place to do it. However, I am doing a "Qigong, Feng Shui and I
Ching" weekend in San Diego next weekend. Woodside, CA on Sept. 8th. At
Omega, NY on Oct. 5, In Hangzhou, China Oct 20th. In Florida Nov.3rd etc.
etc. See how boring this site would become if we all did it?

I suppose Mark the Grandmaster is offended. Tufski shitski.

Get over it Mark. Get a life. You've got too much time on your hands.

You are entitled to your interpretation of my post, wrong as it may be.

I guess you failed in your scholarship to notice that what I said was " just
a suggestion".
If you are not happy on this list just get off, I personally won't miss your
unqualified judgement.

I do notice you have nothing to contribute except misdirected vitriol.

Who the hell are you and what qualifies you to make any judgements at all
about a post that was intended to be constructive?

You seem like a complainer to me, with nothing to contribute but negativity,
no suggestions to dialogue, or positive offerings.

Why don't you keep your drivel to yourself?

I don't read you offering another suggestion to a definition, or a way for
dialogue to begin for this list. I offered a way to begin a list wide
conversation and obviously offended your perception, small that it is.

I mentioned Ken Cohen's workshop to the list in a non offensive way. Contrary
to your
view of things, there may be people on this list who may not have heard of
him or his work, who might just be interested. All readers know where the
delete button is, including you.

Since you are the Grandmaster of the 1st Universe, why not pontificate a
little and fill us all in on the definition of qigong, with your incisive
intellect.

CFFarrell

Jerry Alan Johnson had a ghost writer write his book, thank you I have a copy.
Is it a valid book? There are questions?

I trained at the Xi Yuan hospital he trained at and much of his material is
available at the bookstore around the corner from Beijing University.

CFFarrell

--- In qiresearch@y..., Kevin Chen <chenke@u...> wrote:
>
> What is Qigong?  If you open 100 books on Qigong you may get 101
> definitions about it. In the First World Symposium on Self Healing and
> Consciousness Power (see http://www.wishus.org/conference ), Professor
> Zhongpeng Lin of China Academy of Qigong proposed the following definition
> on Qigong.  I would like to hear some comments and opinion, and hopefully
> we can come up with a definition most of us may agree and use in our research.
> Kevin
>

The definition of Qigong?
One can put many linear definitions to the word. But this definition
becomes meaningless without the personal experience. For instance, a
definition that includes movement or breath control does not describe
the form of Qigong I personally practice.

My favorite expression of definition is:
A system of gathering, storing, and circulating energy for the
purpose of raising the energy body's vibrational rate. The result of
practicing this system is enhanced awareness, with side-effect of
better health.

Michael Lomax
www.qigongamerica.com

At 03:21 AM 08/22/2001 +0000, Michael wrote:
>My favorite expression of definition is:
>A system of gathering, storing, and circulating energy for the
>purpose of raising the energy body's vibrational rate. The result of
>practicing this system is enhanced awareness, with side-effect of
>better health.

But Qigong is not just "a" system, but with thousand different schools and
traditions.  It is hard to reach agreement on which one is superior to
others, and there are huge differences from one form to another.  Qigong is
a general term for a large variety of forms of traditional exercises and
therapies.  There are over 1200 registered Qigong schools or forms in
contemporary China, and much more in the history.  It is definitely not one
system. Maybe the word system is a little too much?

I kind of like professor Lin's definition. I would like to hear from all of
you about what is wrong with the threefold of the definition so that we can
improve it.  After all, Qigong is a Chinese tradition, and professor Lin is
the president of Chinese Academy of Qigong for years, 70% Qigong masters in
China have been students of this academy in one point.  His definition must
have some reasons and background consideration.

Thank you all for your input on this.  We need a widely acceptable
definition to promote Qigong to the medical community.

Please do not launch any personal attach on this international forum -- we
should have a common goal to understand Qigong better.

Kevin


:-)  :-)
Kevin Chen, Ph.D. MPH.
Department of Psychiatry
UMDNJ-New Jersey Medical School

Over years of teaching Qigong and Taiji in corporations, hospitals, schools,
and penal and drug rehabilitation settings, I've found the following
definition to be the most effective for conveying to the Western
layman/laywoman what Qigong is:

"Qigong is a subtle and sophisticated form of "classical conditioning," and
"biofeedback."  Whereby the practitioner learns to simultaneosly "listen" to
the subtle messages of the body (biofeedback), and train the mind and body to
unblock areas of collected stress (classical conditioning).

The result is that the practitioner daily becomes aware of, and then
cleanses, the daily loads of collected and accumulated stress, in order to
clear the communication systems of the mind and body, both energetic and
organic, to maximize the health and healing systems of both the mind and body.

With 70 to 85% of all illness caused by stress (a Kaiser Permenente 20 year
study), the US annual health budget of $1 trillion (approx.) could
theoretically be reduced by $700 billion to $850 billion annually if the
majority of Americans embrace and are provided with Qigong instruction
through education, health care, social services, etc. in an immediate and
massive way."

When I use the above definition, it is impossible for any rational health
care establishment or worker not to want to have Qigong become a part of
their health offerings, or for any teacher, or counselor not to want it to
become part of their program.  When I was in Hong Kong a few days ago, I
asked an officer of the Hong Kong Tai Chi Association how many people in Hong
Kong they are teaching Taiji to.  He replied, "About 250,000."  I then asked
this, "What will you do when an avalanche of medical research comes forth on
Taiji and Qigong benefits and half of Hong Kong, in other words 4 million
people, come knocking on your door to learn Taiji?"

He smiled and said, "We'd better start training more teachers."

The need to modernize the descriptions of Qigong and Taiji are not
disrespectful of Chinese culture's enormous gift to the world in the form of
Qigong and Taiji.  Quite the opposite, by allowing our own cultural awareness
to expand the arts/sciences and definitions of Qigong and Taiji we do great
honor to the lifetimes of work that have gone before us.

Humanity is at a critical juncture today.  The rapid change of the
information age is crushing us with stress disease, as systems changes double
in speed exponentially every few months.  Qigong and Taiji were created many
centuries ago, but have evolved and improved over generations of personal
research.  Each practitioner is a personal researcher adding their own
improvements to its art/science.  All of humanity is crying out for the
benefits Qigong and Taiji offer -- but we must explain it in terms tangible
and meaningful to each culture of the world rather than trying to force
mainstream society to see it through the eyes of ancient Chinese culture.
Even in China and Hong Kong this is a problem as young people turn away from
TCM in droves, opting for western pharmaceutical solutions, and
pharmaceutical poisoning grows in China as it does in the U.S.

It is time to create a new and fresh vernacular, created by Qigong
practitioner/experts in every country and culture designed to communicate and
expedite the spread of these tools to mass society worldwide in modern terms
all can understand including China and Hong Kong's western influenced youth.

I look forward to your responses.

Bill Douglas, World Tai Chi & Qigong Day, www.worldtaichiday.org

***ROUND THE WORLD CHALLENGE' RECEPTION'***

You are cordially invited to meet a most amazing person on a most amazing
quest!  Mike Nemesvary is driving completely around the world to raise funds
for spinal cord research. This is impressive enough alone, but Mike, a former
World Cup freestyle champion skier, has been confined to a wheelchair since
1985.  He started the 'Round the World Challenge' to raise funds for spinal
cord injury research.  Please see his website: <A
HREF="http://www.roundtheworldchallenge.org/">
http://www.roundtheworldchallenge.org/</A>

His visit to San Francisco on August 30th, is being proclaimed "Mike
Nemesvary Day" by the Mayor, and a reception will be held that evening in his
honor at the prestigious downtown City Club.

The 'Round the World Challenge is being supported in part by the Christopher
Reeve Foundation and aims to harness the power of technology to create
freedom and independence for people with disabilities.

In addition, his tour of medical centers worldwide is also opening doors for
many methods of rehabilitation.   The East West Academy of Healing Arts is
sponsoring Mike's visit to San Francisco and is inviting international
representatives to attend the reception and showcase cultural approaches to
health and healing, such as Traditional Chinese Medicine and Qi Gong.

Join us from 5:30 - 8:00 p.m., on Thursday, August 30th, 2001 at the City
Club.  The City Club is one of San Francisco's most exclusive private clubs,
located at The Stock Exchange Tower, 155 Sansome Street, 10th Floor.

Please RSVP to 415-362-2480.

A $30 suggested donation will be taken at the door.  Proceeds will benefit
the Round the World Challenge and East West Academy of Healing Arts.

East West Academy of Healing Arts
530 Bush Street, Suite 202
San Francisco, CA 94108
415-788-2227  tel.
415-788-2242  fax
email:  eastwestqi@...
website:  eastwestqi.com

I apologize to the list for losing my temper, that includes Mark and Jerry
Johnson.

JERRY, i didn't say you didn't do the work on your book. I actually admire
what you are doing with waiqi training. I studied with Prof Xu Hongtao and
Prof Liu Guanjun of Xi Yuan Hospital, I believe you may know them. And others.

I felt I was being attacked unjustly for my post and am sorry you were
brought into it, I apologize.

I will refrain from responding improperly

CFFarrell.

--- In qiresearch@y..., Kevin Chen <chenke@u...> wrote:
> At 03:21 AM 08/22/2001 +0000, Michael wrote:
> >My favorite expression of definition is:
> >A system of gathering, storing, and circulating energy for the
> >purpose of raising the energy body's vibrational rate. The result
of
> >practicing this system is enhanced awareness, with side-effect of
> >better health.
>
> But Qigong is not just "a" system, but with thousand different
schools and
> traditions.  It is hard to reach agreement on which one is superior
to
> others, and there are huge differences from one form to another.
Qigong is
> a general term for a large variety of forms of traditional
exercises and
> therapies.  There are over 1200 registered Qigong schools or forms
in
> contemporary China, and much more in the history.  It is definitely
not one
> system. Maybe the word system is a little too much?
>
> I kind of like professor Lin's definition. I would like to hear
from all of
> you about what is wrong with the threefold of the definition so
that we can
> improve it.  After all, Qigong is a Chinese tradition, and
professor Lin is
> the president of Chinese Academy of Qigong for years, 70% Qigong
masters in
> China have been students of this academy in one point.  His
definition must
> have some reasons and background consideration.
>
> Thank you all for your input on this.  We need a widely acceptable
> definition to promote Qigong to the medical community.
>
> Please do not launch any personal attach on this international
forum -- we
> should have a common goal to understand Qigong better.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> :-)  :-)
> Kevin Chen, Ph.D. MPH.
> Department of Psychiatry
> UMDNJ-New Jersey Medical School

The word "system" is about as generic as one can get. It doesn't
apply to any one particular system. As in "system" engineering, or a
solar "system" (many different brands out there).
Are not all qigong teachings grouped into one type of "system" or
another? Even if this "system" involves only one technique?
But you can substitute the word "technique" or many other words.
My point was that all of these definitions were meaningless without
the experience itself. I also wanted to point out that the
words "breath control" and "movement" did not apply to all
qigong "systems".
Perhaps the word "experiential" should be added to any definition so
people can understand that qigong is something that has to be
experienced personally in order to have meaning.

Michael Lomax
www.qigongamerica.com

I tend to concur with Kevin's comments: <<After all, Qigong is a Chinese tradition, and
professor Lin is
> the president of Chinese Academy of Qigong for years, 70% Qigong
masters in
> China have been students of this academy in one point.  His
definition must
> have some reasons and background consideration.
>

Frances
--
Frances Lea Gander, L.Ac., Dipl. Ac.
Three Treasures Health Services
www.carr.org/~fgander

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Your use of Yahoo!

I want to applaud Kevin for bringing this subject of definition up, and thank
Prof. Lin for his great work and thoughtful definition.  I also want to thank
everyone in this discussion group for your work in this field.

To reiterate, any comments are not disrespect to Prof. Lin or his work.  My
feeling is that Professor Lin would be very excited about the new
internationalization of Qigong.

I don't think he would personally be hurt, or threatened by this discussion,
and in fact would be excited about it.  I've found that the great masters are
very excited about the fact that the new generation of teachers worldwide are
beginning to find "their own voice" in their own cultural symbols and terms
to bring Qigong to the mass culture.

If by attempting to do this we are considered heretical, this stifles a much
needed creativity.  Our goal must be to use terms to communicate to the mass
public, to popularize these powerful health tools.  The planet is in a stress
crisis, and this train is not going to slow down.

If the current speed of change is wreaking such havoc on humanity's mental
and emotional health, imagine what will happen when the "molecular computers"
appear on the scene, which will be about 10 atoms across and compute in hours
what today' computers would take centuries to compute.  Humanity needs Qigong
to survive and thrive these forthcoming challenges, or we will be rattled
apart.

Our task is to constantly redefine it to better help the mass public embrace
it and make it a part of their daily lives and of their accelerating future.
By defining it based on our personal internal experiences, it comes out in
our native cultural symbols.  If we define it externally by what we've
mentally memorized in ancient texts, then it is less tangible to our native
cultures.  I'm speaking to Chinese teachers as well, because, as I mentioned
earlier, too many young Chinese are turning away from Qigong, and they need
fresh modern definitions to re-engage their interest.

Thanks to all for your thoughts on this.  You are each greatly improving
world health with your work in this important area,  all of you are treasures
to the world.

Bill Douglas, World T'ai Chi & Qigong Day, www.worldtaichiday.org

Good Day Too All:
I was just sent your email on the Qigong quest for
meaning.  Well my fellow Qigong
analysist.  I do agree with your first statement
regarding 101 different interperatations.  Why is
this?  Well, its my belief that since we all are
different in all our own ways.  Qi, manifest its self
based on many different factors.  Lets look at a few:
First, each person concept of Qi is based upon who
planted the original seed of interest, then on how it
was cultivated by the teacher and the student.  Since
we all have different reasons for wanting to believe
this does or does not exist.  This really has a major
bearing on how we approach Qigong.  If I am a person
who has a major illness that no one else has helped me
with that person may take it more seriously then the
person who is just looking for improved energy in his
daily life.  We find more persons that have greater
reason to accept Qigong in the unhealthy category
then those who are already in good health.

Another factor is one who is looking for something
greater then what our present day medical methods have
to offer.  All positive religions tell us to let go
and look within our true spirit,
here is where we find the meaning of god-likeness.
Does not the Christian Jude o religion
say in the bible in Genesis, we are made in his image
or likeness.  Does not Dai say
Qi, is the life energy form of all living things.  Can
one see the direct parallel relationship of the two.
"Speaking for myself,  I can assure you that through
the practicing of my Qigong and Taiji over the last
twenty-two years, I have personally found a greater
touch of harmony and peace then anything else I have
ever experienced.  My health is not what it was ten
years ago, for I am ten years older and have the same
old pains others have and had at my age. This I blame
on myself for not being more consistent in my practice
of qigong.  Qigong has improved my health in
general regarding physical ability but it has made
greater improvements in my everyday life more easier
to handle then it was twenty years ago.  Here we can
say Qigong has sicologically improved my mental
capabilities or has it given to me a greater insight
of what is more important than what I thought before.
Maybe that in itself is what makes it so great.  We
first must learn to perserve what is the most
important things in our life, then and only then can
we put
it in proper order of importance.

What part of Qigong does this?  Is it the breathing or
is it the quite meditation or could it be both
together.  I believe one can not be done with out the
other,  although they may be two different functions
they are still one in all.  The true essence of
yin/yang.  My belief and experience has told me the
more peacifull I become within-the more my God takes
over my will.  What is will?  Its nothing more then
our mind conceiving a thought or notion.

I once heard a great instructor say to a student, the
reason Qigong is so hard is because it hides its self
in its simplisty.  Can't begin to tell you how many
students I have had who could not do the forms of
Qigong, because they could not get any result from it
within the first few treys.  This is typical of our
Western culture.  Everybody wants instentannius
results.

In short, Qigong too me is the breath of life passed
on from our creator to all living things.  Our job is
to first reconize it, cultivate it, and continue
passing it on to others.  Only then will we see a more
peacifull world to live in and more healthier life.

Sincerely,
Rick L. Julius
(Instructor-York Qigong Tai Chi)


__________________________________________________
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I have found that when trying to develop an suitable definition for a
complex subject, it is productive to brainstorm the salient points first,
and then cull them down to a reasonable working definition after the
brainstorm list starts petering out.  The brainstorm process works best if
the ideas are allowed to flow unfettered (don't qualify, justify, dismiss
anything during this stage).  One might liken this to "opening of the
chakras".  I offer the format below as a starting point to which others can
add their ideas.

If this approach seems to be received well by list members, the next step
(after it looks like nothing substantially different is being added to the
list), is to qualify, explain confusing terms, discuss the items and then
group like concepts, thereby reducing the list to its most useful/important
concepts. ("condensing")

After condensing, the concepts can be arranged with appropriate connective
language to form a working definition.  ("directing the flow").

One of the features I like about this approach is that we can debate and
prioritize the underlying components of qigong, without getting to bogged
down in the language.  The other is that once the fundamental tenets are
described, people can then use them to formulate working definitions with
language that speaks to them and their peers.  This should reduce the
intensity of discussion that might otherwise happen if we set our goal to
high - like trying to come up with one definition for all
situations/environments.

I have chosen to pick categories that seemed to speak to (1) the task =
training aspect, (2) the goals of the training, (3) what is being trained,
(4) and what is involved with the training.  These may not be the best
categories, but the idea here is to frame things just enough to get the
creative juices flowing.  So again, the idea is to add anything that pops
into your head that "may" be an important concept to consider for each
category.

Matthew Klee

**********************************

Do what? (task)
practice, train, exercise, develop

With what? (resources)
natural bio (field(s), forces(s)), energy, electrochemical,
biochemical/electric, nervous system, communication, inter-tissue, internal
external, physical, mental, spiritual,,,

To improve what? (goals)
sensitize perception/awareness of (internal, external, spiritual, mental,  )
increase control of
amplify intensity of
equalize, normalize, balance
increase emission (strength, focus, control, efficacy (for whatever purpose
it is being emitted))
intent
health

Context (process, constraints)
mentally directed (active conscious involvement)
experiential (active participation required)
breath control (a tried & true path to reaching the goals?)
focus on goals (which may include eliminating thought?)
positive vs. negative (the love thing) [here is where the consequences of
negative approaches fit in]

***************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Wtcqd2000@...
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:02 AM
To: qiresearch@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [qiresearch] I applaud Kevin for this discussion and honor
Prof. Lin and his work

<snip>

Our task is to constantly redefine it to better help the mass public embrace

it and make it a part of their daily lives and of their accelerating future.

By defining it based on our personal internal experiences, it comes out in
our native cultural symbols.  If we define it externally by what we've
mentally memorized in ancient texts, then it is less tangible to our native
cultures.  I'm speaking to Chinese teachers as well, because, as I mentioned

earlier, too many young Chinese are turning away from Qigong, and they need
fresh modern definitions to re-engage their interest.

Thanks to all for your thoughts on this.  You are each greatly improving
world health with your work in this important area,  all of you are
treasures
to the world.

Bill Douglas, World T'ai Chi & Qigong Day, www.worldtaichiday.org

Matthew, this is a great idea.  Let me begin:

(1) the task - Loosening the body and mind
(2) the goals - Cleansing accumulated stress - so the body's natural healing
ability is  unobstructed by blockage.
(3) what is being trained - The consciousness, nervous system, and cells of
the body
(4) what is involved with the training - Using the breath work and imagery as
biofeedback tools to become aware of where the mind and body are "squeezing
onto" stress, or old patterns of life.  This then enables us to classically
condition the body to use breath and imagery to release these blocks.  The
end result is replacing our human cellular memory that resorts to "fight or
flight" panic responses during each challenge in life, with a more healthful
and dynamic relaxation response that Qigong teaches the consciousness and
cellular structur of the body.

A note of explanation:
Why do I harp on stress?  Because stress is the #1 problem facing humanity.

Why is stress a new problem?  Of course its old, but the intensity we feel
has never before been faced by any human generation, because of the advent of
the information age, the speed of change is growing exponentially.

Why is this a problem?  Psychological research shows that change is stressful
-- even good change.

What has it to do with Qigong?  Qigong and Taiji are shown to be highly
evolved systems that can enable us to continually "let go" of what the mind
and body grip in consciousness and physical structures.  This allows us to
re-form and re-define into newness every moment of our lives.  We become
evolutionary creatures able to take on the escalating speed of modern change,
remembering to "breathe," and to "let go" so that we may become new, vibrant
and healthfully adaptive to change while all around us are being beaten down
by that flood of change.

When I began organizing World Tai Chi & Qigong Day, I was surprised to find
that Tai Chi teachers are among the "most wired" community, with websites,
and sophisticated hyperlinks, and email addresses even in underdeveloped
countries.  This is an example of how the fluidity that Taiji and Qigong
teach and train us in, translates into an ability to flow and adapt to modern
change.

Taiji and Qigong aren't tools for the desolate monk, but for the whole of
humanity in the evolving future.

Bill Douglas, World Tai Chi & Qigong Day