Hey, again... sorry to hear that things have been sliding in the
toilet for you. I was thinking about you only recently, and wondered
if things were still working out.

You know that she has to be the one to decide to heal or hurt
herself... she knows this too. But she's hit a major bump in the
road, and has fallen back into the pit of despair and self-
punishment. Right now, she feels unworthy and hates herself. There is
nothing you can do to convince her she is otherwise--- she believes
anyone who thinks she's worthwhile is a fool. Feelings of self-worth
have to come from within, or they are only play-acting... she truly
has to believe in herself and her own worth, or it isn't real.

She won't see you because doing so would remind her of what she needs
to do... and she can't go there now. But she won't say good-bye
because she needs to hold on, just a little bit... like a toddler
learning to walk, who holds her parent's finger.

You say you're at the point of wishing to liberate yourself--- so, do
that. Be who you are, apart from her, and apart from issues involving
her. Find yourself. In time, she may touch base again with you, to
take another look at what your relationship meant. It's common for
Survivors to re-visit the feelings they had when they were with an
honest, kind, understanding partner, who saw her as something worth
more than she gives herself credit. And so, she may wallow in the
gutter for awhile... but don't wait for her to surface and find you.
Live your life, apart from her, and let it take you where it will.
You've learned a lot from the experience of loving her... and this is
part of who you now are... and it will be part of what you have to
offer in another relationship.

How about that, Chris, that is interesting.  Yeah I wonder if it is something to
do with a "healing contact" yet not requiring any true intimacy from her.  My
xgf is also a beautician which is interesting as well.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: b burk<mailto:bburk2002@...>
   To:
positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com<mailto:positivepartnersofsurvivors@y\
ahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 5:23 PM
   Subject: Re: [POS Illness and Survivors


   Funny, my ex wife was also a massage therapist -
   intimate contact with safe boundaries I guess.


   Chris L.-


   -- T F <temafit@...<mailto:temafit@...>> wrote:
   > My xgf survivor believed in alternative types of
   > treatments like Reiki healing.  Interesting she is a
   > massage therapist too.  Go figure she would be in a
   > profession that involves touching.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm glad to hear you separated yourself from her father.  I really think you did
the right thing there.  It is very alarming to me that she herself hasn't done
this yet seems to defend him...but that's something we've been discussing on
this board...about how the survivor seems to harbor some tainted feelings of
regard for family members that hurt them.

It does sound like she is not able to get in touch with her actual feelings or
examine a situation too closely.  From what I've been learning from this board
and reading, this is pretty "normal" for a survivor who hasn't been able to
bravely work on their healing.  Looking too deeply is too painful.

My xgf would sometimes act quite juvenile herself...this at age 36.  Sometimes
it would seem she would regress into her childhood.  Although at other times it
seemed a simple and endearing "getting in touch with her inner child". 
Nevertheless, what I've been learning is that survivors of incest sometimes get
stuck developmentally at the stage of childhood where they were abused.  This
doesn't mean they are always acting like children...but can go there when things
get challenging and require them to take some adult responsibility.

It also seems pretty common that, since their own identity was stolen by their
perpetrators...because their personal boundaries were violated in such a
dreadful way...they have a hard time knowing exactly who they are and what they
hold as their own opinions, interests, etc.  Sometimes they feel that in order
not to get abandoned they have to "blend" with the people they depend on for
their self-worth.

My xgf too like to use the word "boundaries" a lot and accuse me of violating
them.  Or not having a sense of healthy boundaries.  The truth is, I just wanted
a "normal" relationship with normal amounts of time and sharing together...not
so close that we didn't have our own individuality...but not so far that we were
estranged.  When I started to pinpoint just a little too much of why she was
displaying certain behavior, she would implement what she called a "boundary" to
keep me away...but really they were probably "defenses".  She couldn't quite
tell the difference.  Because she was in recovery for alcoholism she was kind of
hyper-vigilant about not having any "codependence", but didn't seem to realize
that even that can be taken to such an extreme that the wonders of love are
stifled.

Well, I'm not able really to tell you what you can do to make any of this
better, but there are people here who understand many of the things you're
describing.  It can be "crazy-making".  Like Chris says, read the archives of
the board to get more education.  Sometimes just having more knowledge can be
power...to at least cope.

I don't know if it is any consolation, but at least your wife seems willing to
discuss matters with you and try out counseling.  Unfortunately though it seems
in her eyes you're the only one who has to fix anything.



----- Original Message -----
   From: Clay<mailto:charlesclayhamm@...>
   To:
positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com<mailto:positivepartnersofsurvivors@y\
ahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 3:51 PM
   Subject: [POS I am not my wife's father


   my wife was incested by her Pastor/Missionary father and her
   brothers from age 4-18. Now after married to her for twenty years
   she is acting increasingly more infantile/juvenile. She will listen
   to teeny bopper music, talk like a teenager, talk baby talk etc. we
   have four children ages 13,15,17 and 19, yet sometimes the kids will
   say, "mom, what are you doing?".  Her father has maintained that it
   did no damage to her. Last year I formally separated myself from
   him, told him that this whole thing is so wrong and confusing that I
   don't care to have contact with him- don't know how long but for now
   I am cutting myself off. Now my wife says I abused her father by
   telling him that because he is "hurt". She says that I am worse than
   him. If I show any emotion at all, she criticizes me for it. If I
   show no emotion she tells my I am weird. The truth of it is that she
   herself is so out of touch with her emotional self that she cannot
   handle being introspective at all. If I ask her what she thinks
   about something she'll say "well, so and so says..." or " in the
   book such and such the guy says..." Yeah okay, but what do YOU
   think. I don't know if anyone will identify with this but it's as
   though there is no person there. As though she has no separate
   identity. As though she forms her identity based on the person she
   is with. Her favorite words are abusive, boundaries, misogynist, and
   a whole host of psychological labels that she throws around to
   protect herself from herself. It's like as long as she is blaming
   someone or thinking about how they are messed up she doesn't have to
   look at her own behavior. She seems like she is addicted to the
   process of recovery. I say to her, "honey, let's just live today,
   that's all we have." she says " yeah, that's just like you Mr.
   irresponsible."  She has moved out of the bedroom and sleeps on the
   floor in a corner of the basement. She issues ultimatums, threatens
   people, always has a excuse/reason for her shortcomings, will not
   honestly express her emotions without including the word "you". The
   pattern is this "how are you feeling?"   " Ifeel like you always
   hurt me and don';t care".  We spend endless hours going over her
   handwritten journals she has kept of who did what, who said what,
   how I hurt her, how the kids hurt the other sibling and so on. If we
   start to talk, she pulls out her notebook and records her
   interpretation of what I say (which is often inaccurate) and then
   stews over it until we go to a counseling session or "support group"
   and then brings out the book and begins to recount anywhere from the
   last two weeks to the last twenty years of our marriage.

   I am exhausted and confused. I love my wife and need
   advice/perspective because I think I cannot see clearly right now.
   Clay


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Funny, my ex wife was also a massage therapist -
intimate contact with safe boundaries I guess.


Chris L.-


-- T F <temafit@...> wrote:
> My xgf survivor believed in alternative types of
> treatments like Reiki healing.  Interesting she is a
> massage therapist too.  Go figure she would be in a
> profession that involves touching.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From:
> orfeo_il_riluttante<mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
>
>   To:
>
positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com<mailto:positivepartnersofsurvivors@y\
ahoogroups.com>
>
>   Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 11:58 AM
>   Subject: Re: [POS Illness and Survivors
>
>
>   --- In
>
positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com<mailto:positivepartnersofsurvivors@y\
ahoogroups.com>,
> "denyapathy"
>   <denyapathy@y<mailto:denyapathy@y>...> wrote:
>   > My survivor - same thing.  Stomach pains, bowel
> problems,
>   surgeries,
>   > headaches, she didn't enjoy eating... on and on.
>  Yes, there's
>   > definitely a pattern between illness and
> survivors.
>
>
>   Has anyone here tried acupuncture?
>
>   It's been a wonderful tool for me...I don't
> personally know any
>   survivors who have benefited...but in my
> experience it has helped
>   to 'unblock' feelings or moods that seem
> unresponsive to other
>   methods (talking, journaling about the issues,
> etc).
>
>   I would recommend to anyone please try it if you
> are experiencing
>   physical symptoms.
>
>   And although I have a slight phobia of needles and
> especially blood,
>   I don't have much problem with the acupuncture
> needles.
>
>   Only a few areas are sensitive enough to feel
> pain, but it is very
>   brief.
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>
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.yahoo.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
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om/group/positivepartnersofsurvivors/>
>
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
>
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> Yahoo! Terms of
> Service<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>




__________________________________
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-
Clay,

Welcome to the board, glad you found us. I will
immediately echo all the things you have written here;
as will others. Please avail yourself of the archived
posts here as they will lend ease to your mind that
you are not crazy, you are not alone by any means.

You will read many stories and points of wisdom here;
as I have since I started posting and reading here.
I'd like to tell you to take a deep breath, step back
a moment, assess your healthy boundaries, find some
compassion in your heart, and most of all get yourself
a support network - professional, friends, etc..

I think I can speak for most who post here in that we
are here for you, you have found kindred souls
undergoing similar trials. Stay strong, stay healthy,
stay calm.


Chris L.



-- Clay <charlesclayhamm@...> wrote:
> my wife was incested by her Pastor/Missionary father
> and her
> brothers from age 4-18. Now after married to her for
> twenty years
> she is acting increasingly more infantile/juvenile.
> She will listen
> to teeny bopper music, talk like a teenager, talk
> baby talk etc. we
> have four children ages 13,15,17 and 19, yet
> sometimes the kids will
> say, "mom, what are you doing?".  Her father has
> maintained that it
> did no damage to her. Last year I formally separated
> myself from
> him, told him that this whole thing is so wrong and
> confusing that I
> don't care to have contact with him- don't know how
> long but for now
> I am cutting myself off. Now my wife says I abused
> her father by
> telling him that because he is "hurt". She says that
> I am worse than
> him. If I show any emotion at all, she criticizes me
> for it. If I
> show no emotion she tells my I am weird. The truth
> of it is that she
> herself is so out of touch with her emotional self
> that she cannot
> handle being introspective at all. If I ask her what
> she thinks
> about something she'll say "well, so and so says..."
> or " in the
> book such and such the guy says..." Yeah okay, but
> what do YOU
> think. I don't know if anyone will identify with
> this but it's as
> though there is no person there. As though she has
> no separate
> identity. As though she forms her identity based on
> the person she
> is with. Her favorite words are abusive, boundaries,
> misogynist, and
> a whole host of psychological labels that she throws
> around to
> protect herself from herself. It's like as long as
> she is blaming
> someone or thinking about how they are messed up she
> doesn't have to
> look at her own behavior. She seems like she is
> addicted to the
> process of recovery. I say to her, "honey, let's
> just live today,
> that's all we have." she says " yeah, that's just
> like you Mr.
> irresponsible."  She has moved out of the bedroom
> and sleeps on the
> floor in a corner of the basement. She issues
> ultimatums, threatens
> people, always has a excuse/reason for her
> shortcomings, will not
> honestly express her emotions without including the
> word "you". The
> pattern is this "how are you feeling?"   " Ifeel
> like you always
> hurt me and don';t care".  We spend endless hours
> going over her
> handwritten journals she has kept of who did what,
> who said what,
> how I hurt her, how the kids hurt the other sibling
> and so on. If we
> start to talk, she pulls out her notebook and
> records her
> interpretation of what I say (which is often
> inaccurate) and then
> stews over it until we go to a counseling session or
> "support group"
> and then brings out the book and begins to recount
> anywhere from the
> last two weeks to the last twenty years of our
> marriage.
>
> I am exhausted and confused. I love my wife and need
>
> advice/perspective because I think I cannot see
> clearly right now.
> Clay
>
>





__________________________________
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http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

my wife was incested by her Pastor/Missionary father and her
brothers from age 4-18. Now after married to her for twenty years
she is acting increasingly more infantile/juvenile. She will listen
to teeny bopper music, talk like a teenager, talk baby talk etc. we
have four children ages 13,15,17 and 19, yet sometimes the kids will
say, "mom, what are you doing?".  Her father has maintained that it
did no damage to her. Last year I formally separated myself from
him, told him that this whole thing is so wrong and confusing that I
don't care to have contact with him- don't know how long but for now
I am cutting myself off. Now my wife says I abused her father by
telling him that because he is "hurt". She says that I am worse than
him. If I show any emotion at all, she criticizes me for it. If I
show no emotion she tells my I am weird. The truth of it is that she
herself is so out of touch with her emotional self that she cannot
handle being introspective at all. If I ask her what she thinks
about something she'll say "well, so and so says..." or " in the
book such and such the guy says..." Yeah okay, but what do YOU
think. I don't know if anyone will identify with this but it's as
though there is no person there. As though she has no separate
identity. As though she forms her identity based on the person she
is with. Her favorite words are abusive, boundaries, misogynist, and
a whole host of psychological labels that she throws around to
protect herself from herself. It's like as long as she is blaming
someone or thinking about how they are messed up she doesn't have to
look at her own behavior. She seems like she is addicted to the
process of recovery. I say to her, "honey, let's just live today,
that's all we have." she says " yeah, that's just like you Mr.
irresponsible."  She has moved out of the bedroom and sleeps on the
floor in a corner of the basement. She issues ultimatums, threatens
people, always has a excuse/reason for her shortcomings, will not
honestly express her emotions without including the word "you". The
pattern is this "how are you feeling?"   " Ifeel like you always
hurt me and don';t care".  We spend endless hours going over her
handwritten journals she has kept of who did what, who said what,
how I hurt her, how the kids hurt the other sibling and so on. If we
start to talk, she pulls out her notebook and records her
interpretation of what I say (which is often inaccurate) and then
stews over it until we go to a counseling session or "support group"
and then brings out the book and begins to recount anywhere from the
last two weeks to the last twenty years of our marriage.

I am exhausted and confused. I love my wife and need
advice/perspective because I think I cannot see clearly right now.
Clay

Hello there S.  I've read some of your story in the archives.  I'm really sorry
your xgf cycles in and out of these episodes and struggles with such
self-destructive behaviors.

I don't have any suggestions really...because similar has happened to me where
my xgf started to see me as a villian.  But I really commiserate with how you're
feeling...the emptiness and powerlessness.  It just seems so wrong that all our
love can't heal them.  It's hard to keep faith in the power of love.

At least she talks to you sometimes...and wants to confide in you about some of
her anxieties about colleagues...but I know it has to be painful wondering if
that is all there will be...superficial chat on the phone.  Maybe she's trying
to keep a connection somehow, because she knows you know her...but she's too
afraid to face you.

From what I've been learning...certainly it is her choice to change her life,
and sounds like you've given her another way to look at how her life could be
better.  But she can't seem to consistently see it right now.  Sounds like she
still has a long ways to go.  It would be great if we could always stand
steadfast for our survivors as a constant...like a lighthouse as Kathy has
mentioned...but it is very, very hard on us to watch them miss the boat time
after time.

----- Original Message -----
   From: thingsareworkingoutslowly<mailto:thingsareworkingoutslowly@...>
   To:
positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com<mailto:positivepartnersofsurvivors@y\
ahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 1:21 AM
   Subject: [POS It's Happened Again


   Hey All,

   You may remember my wonderful ex-girlfriend recovered suddenly from
   a four-month 'episode' after trying out prostitution twice.

   Well - I am struggling. It's been four months since she went weird
   again after only two and a half good months. She shuts me out
   totally, hides everything from me - even when I just offer to be her
   friend. She cannot remember the real me and just sees me as this
   evil person. It starts slowly, and the builds momentum as she shuts
   me out more and more and more. More and more aggression towards me
   as she destroys her life.

   This time she's quit her job, selling her furniture, moving house,
   giving away our dogs.

   And she won't see me. Not at all.

   I am now at the point of wishing to liberate myself. I cannot go on
   being a substitute-Father who she can attack and hurt. And she loves
   hurting me too much.

   But she won't even give me the time to say a proper goodbye and good
   luck. She'll call me and babble for ten minutes with nasty snide
   comments about her colleagues - but she wouldn't meet or talk. It's
   been four months - not a single social appointment.

   There was no goodbye chat when she first went crackers again; and
   she doesn't feel it's necessary.

   I am at my wits end. I have no feelings left apart from pain. I
   cannot say that I love her anymore - I feel so totally empty. I
   offered to just take all of my affection and be a friend instead and
   she just spat at the idea.

   She's dated another guy briefly too.

   Any suggestions? I mean...what else can I do? Isn't it her choice to
   change her life?

   Thanks all.


   S


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My xgf survivor believed in alternative types of treatments like Reiki healing. 
Interesting she is a massage therapist too.  Go figure she would be in a
profession that involves touching.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: orfeo_il_riluttante<mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
   To:
positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com<mailto:positivepartnersofsurvivors@y\
ahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 11:58 AM
   Subject: Re: [POS Illness and Survivors


   --- In
positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com<mailto:positivepartnersofsurvivors@y\
ahoogroups.com>, "denyapathy"
   <denyapathy@y<mailto:denyapathy@y>...> wrote:
   > My survivor - same thing.  Stomach pains, bowel problems,
   surgeries,
   > headaches, she didn't enjoy eating... on and on.  Yes, there's
   > definitely a pattern between illness and survivors.


   Has anyone here tried acupuncture?

   It's been a wonderful tool for me...I don't personally know any
   survivors who have benefited...but in my experience it has helped
   to 'unblock' feelings or moods that seem unresponsive to other
   methods (talking, journaling about the issues, etc).

   I would recommend to anyone please try it if you are experiencing
   physical symptoms.

   And although I have a slight phobia of needles and especially blood,
   I don't have much problem with the acupuncture needles.

   Only a few areas are sensitive enough to feel pain, but it is very
   brief.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey All,

You may remember my wonderful ex-girlfriend recovered suddenly from
a four-month 'episode' after trying out prostitution twice.

Well - I am struggling. It's been four months since she went weird
again after only two and a half good months. She shuts me out
totally, hides everything from me - even when I just offer to be her
friend. She cannot remember the real me and just sees me as this
evil person. It starts slowly, and the builds momentum as she shuts
me out more and more and more. More and more aggression towards me
as she destroys her life.

This time she's quit her job, selling her furniture, moving house,
giving away our dogs.

And she won't see me. Not at all.

I am now at the point of wishing to liberate myself. I cannot go on
being a substitute-Father who she can attack and hurt. And she loves
hurting me too much.

But she won't even give me the time to say a proper goodbye and good
luck. She'll call me and babble for ten minutes with nasty snide
comments about her colleagues - but she wouldn't meet or talk. It's
been four months - not a single social appointment.

There was no goodbye chat when she first went crackers again; and
she doesn't feel it's necessary.

I am at my wits end. I have no feelings left apart from pain. I
cannot say that I love her anymore - I feel so totally empty. I
offered to just take all of my affection and be a friend instead and
she just spat at the idea.

She's dated another guy briefly too.

Any suggestions? I mean...what else can I do? Isn't it her choice to
change her life?

Thanks all.


S

Hey All,

You may remember my wonderful ex-girlfriend recovered suddenly from
a four-month 'episode' after trying out prostitution twice.

Well - I am struggling. It's been four months since she went weird
again after only two and a half good months. She shuts me out
totally, hides everything from me - even when I just offer to be her
friend. She cannot remember the real me and just sees me as this
evil person. It starts slowly, and the builds momentum as she shuts
me out more and more and more. More and more aggression towards me
as she destroys her life.

This time she's quit her job, selling her furniture, moving house,
giving away our dogs.

And she won't see me. Not at all.

I am now at the point of wishing to liberate myself. I cannot go on
being a substitute-Father who she can attack and hurt. And she loves
hurting me too much.

But she won't even give me the time to say a proper goodbye and good
luck. She'll call me and babble for ten minutes with nasty snide
comments about her colleagues - but she wouldn't meet or talk. It's
been four months - not a single social appointment.

There was no goodbye chat when she first went crackers again; and
she doesn't feel it's necessary.

I am at my wits end. I have no feelings left apart from pain. I
cannot say that I love her anymore - I feel so totally empty. I
offered to just take all of my affection and be a friend instead and
she just spat at the idea.

She's dated another guy briefly too.

Any suggestions? I mean...what else can I do? Isn't it her choice to
change her life?

Thanks all.


S

--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "denyapathy"
<denyapathy@y...> wrote:
> My survivor - same thing.  Stomach pains, bowel problems,
surgeries,
> headaches, she didn't enjoy eating... on and on.  Yes, there's
> definitely a pattern between illness and survivors.


Has anyone here tried acupuncture?

It's been a wonderful tool for me...I don't personally know any
survivors who have benefited...but in my experience it has helped
to 'unblock' feelings or moods that seem unresponsive to other
methods (talking, journaling about the issues, etc).

I would recommend to anyone please try it if you are experiencing
physical symptoms.

And although I have a slight phobia of needles and especially blood,
I don't have much problem with the acupuncture needles.

Only a few areas are sensitive enough to feel pain, but it is very
brief.

yes, my fiancee' survivor also faces daily health issue (stomach, chest pain,
IBD) none of which can be explained by western medicine. It seems something
is always wrong... especially if we seem to be having a good day (which are few
and far betwene) which makes me belive His physical issues are directly
related to the CSA. The only thing I have found that helps is trying to nurture
the
spirit as well as the body. I try to cook food for the spirit (more
macrobioticly) and when he is not receptive to my efforts of support
emotionally, I
turn them on myself by filling myself with and giving good energy (reiki) and
lots and  lots  of prayer... OH MY!!! I write it down and it sounds so simple!!
If it only was!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think we all have had to hear hope WE are the root
of the problem, and not the issues or how they twisted
things up. Up until recently I was still the fall guy
for all the problems, or it was us together, or this
or that, never what it truly was, never the real
issue. Anything even remotely plausable was it.
Normal relationship issues were magnified a hundred
fold; and while they were an issue ( that could have
been handled by communication/effort) it wasn't the
source, but most definitely targeted and wedged
between us.
Even now that I am not at all involved in her life and
se is still having the same feelings, the same issues,
the same dramas keep playing out, the real cause can't
possibly be it.

--- ha_ogee_hutchko <ha_ogee_hutchko@...> wrote:
> Me too. I only know that I'm tired of being told I'm
> THE problem, and
> even more tired of believing it. I struggle daily. I
> know I have my
> own issues to deal with, and am doing my darndest to
> do so, but I feel
> like every time M and I have a go-round, I lose so
> much ground, and
> she won't let me walk away.
>
> I hear so much here that describe precisely her
> behaviour, and yet she
> tells me it's all me, that she's dealt with all
> those issues and knows
> what's what. That she doesn't want to hear about my
> "stuff" and it's
> time for her to come first.
>
> I'm tired of hurting. I'm just tired.
>
> Hutch
>
>
> --- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com,
> Erin
> <elfsorbet@y...> wrote:
> > I am glad that you are getting the support that
> you need now.
> >
> > ha_ogee_hutchko <ha_ogee_hutchko@y...> wrote:When
> M and I first got
> together, I was probably the most attentive
> > partner in the known universe. It made her
> uncomfortable, and
> > gradually, I stopped. Maybe I was overbearing. Or
> maybe it was just
> > too much for her. I really don't know. But thus
> we're here now.
> >
> >
>
>




__________________________________
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My husband constantly battles with mild stomach problems.  Never
anything truly major. . . yet all his stress manifests itself on a
fairly regular basis in the form of pain, upset, diarrhea, etc.  He
was extremely sick on our wedding day (now I know why), and was tested
for colitis afterward, but they didn't find that.  Dealing with
someone who has so much physical illness is exhausting.  Hang in
there.

hpfanmom















--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, Shelly Strauss
Rollison <rainbowlady23@e...> wrote:
> Does anyone else have to deal with their survivor and constant
illness?
>
> My wife and I have been together for more than six years now. When
we
> first met, she had terrible migraines and IBS (irritable bowel
syndrome)
> that would take her out of commission for days. Both are caused by
> stress. When she moved here, away from her FOO (family of origin--
which
> includes her abuser), the stress level dropped dramatically. The
> migraines and the IBS slowly disappeared. But as soon as they were
> "manageable" and weren't causing her a lot of pain, her GERD started
> acting up to the point where she was taking 2 Zantac in the AM and 2
in
> the PM just to maintain a manageable level. Somewhere in the midst
of
> this she developed a ruptured gland that required surgery. Then she
had
> some operation to eliminate the GERD. Once the GERD (reflux) was
gone,
> she began having a spate of kidney stones. Now we know what causes
them
> and she's working on keeping them to a minimum. But as a result of
the
> surgery for the ruptured gland, she developed a fistula. So she had
to
> have a second surgery that finally got rid of the fistula and the
wound
> is healed. Her surgeon "cut her loose" a couple weeks ago. Now
suddenly
> she's having mysterious abdominal pain that no one can figure out
but
> has her in tears and short of breath. We were in the ER on Tuesday
night
> and will probably be in the ER when she gets home from work because
> that's where her doctor told her to go so they can run tests on such
> short notice. It's never ending and it's driving me nuts.......I
firmly
> believe that this is all related to her abuse: it's a form of
> self-punishment. I don't think it's a coincidence that she's just
> started back to therapy and the first time she felt this pain was
two
> days after her first therapy session.
>
> I know I must sound cold-hearted, but I'm tired of this. I'm sure
she is
> too, but the only difference is that she can stop it and I can't. It
> won't stop until she heals and she won't heal until she faces up to
what
> happened and she doesn't want to do that. She's only going to
therapy
> now because she's convinced that I'll never believe she's "over it"
> until she DOES go to therapy. She told me a couple weeks ago that
she
> felt like she was going crazy and then got pissed at me when I said,
> "And what are you goign to do about it." She seemed to think that
> sharing wtih me what she was feeling was enough. I told her that
telling
> me she felt like she was going crazy was like telling me that she's
hot
> when I can see she's standing next to a roaring fire. It's obvious.
But
> to keep telling me she's going crazy or that she's stressed out and
not
> do anything about it is like standing next to the fire and
complaining
> that you're hot. You have to move away from the fire if you don't
want
> to be hot. But in this situation, I can't make her move away from
the
> fire. She tells me that every time i suggest that her illness is
caused
> by the abuse, she feels utterly frustrated because it means there's
> nothing really wrong with her. And I keep telling her, nope, the
> illnesses are real, but you're only treating the symptoms and not
the
> cause. The cause is like a splinter buried deep under the skin. If
you
> just treat the infection, which is very real and very painful, it's
> going to keep coming back. You have to get the splinter out first.
And
> that can be painful and it can be hard work, especially since the
> splinter has had the past 15 years (at least) to work deep into her.
>
> I'm torn-- on one had I recognize that she has to heal at her own
pace.
> But on the other, I recongize too that she has developed survivor
> patterns that allow her to get through life with a minimal amount of
> pain and that she could go on like this forever if I enable her to
do
> so. But I cannot. Oh, I suppose I could, but I choose not to. Yet
where
> is that line between pushing her to heal and enabling her to
survive?
>
> I've been in therapy for almost two years now trying to answer that
> question...*sigh*
>
> I have to go...my wife just got home and we're more than likely
going to
> be heading to the ER again because of these stomach pains.....
>
> Love and Light,
> Shelly
> --
> The Purple Hat Project: http://rainbowsendpress.com/php/
>
> "The steel bars between me and a promise suddenly bend with ease.
> The closer I'm bound in love to you, the closer I am to free." --
>  Indigo Girls, "Power of Two"
>
> "If you refuse an active role in stopping injustice, you accept an
> active role in perpetuating it."
>
> "I do not have the right to force anyone to accept, agree to,
support,
> practice, follow, adhere to, understand or condone my beliefs, but I
> have the right to have those beliefs and to have them recognized as
> valid if someone is trying to take them away from me."
>
> "There is no nation, by God exempted, lay down your weapons and Love
> your neighbor as yourself." --
>  Indigo Girls, "Our Deliverance"
>
> "You may not succeed, but you're not a failure as long as you keep
trying."
>
> "Our brave young men are dying....Which of them might have written a
> poem? Which of them might have cured cancer? Which of them might
have
> played in a World Series or given us the gift of laughter from the
> stage or helped build a bridge or a university? Which of them would
> have taught a child to read? It is our responsibility to let these
> men live....It is indecent if they die because of the empty vanity
of
> their country.
>
> Do you suppose that ten years from now we will all look back and
> wonder how the American people ever went so far with something so
> terrible?" --Robert F. Kennedy, 1968
>
> The Rainbow's End: http://rainbowsendpress.com
> Resident Visionary: http://onespiritproject.com/Shelly/index.shtml
> My Two Cents Worth: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/2138
> Choices: http://www.angelfire.com/co/rainbowlady/

It is important to come to the realization that the puzzle-pieces
will come together and form a picture that gives us satisfaction, in
the end... but it's also a good thing to notice life's gifts and
wonders along the way. One of the saddest things in regard to
survivors is that in their scramble to survive, they are blind to so
much that is totally awesome... which includes the honest love of a
caring partner.

You speak of letting go and trusting God. A friend of mine invented
the word "unlax", because "relax" didn't make sense to him, in cases
where "lax" hadn't happened before. And so, I "unlax"--- take a deep
breath and let go of whatever feeling has me in its grip... but I
don't let go of me. I give myself a hug, and am thankful that I am in
touch with myself now. The biggest hurdle in my life has been to have
faith in myself.

All humans have a need to "belong". But for survivors of csa,
everything surrounding the family-- issues of love and trust and
safety-- are all mucked-up. "The family" is at the root of figuring
out who we are--- all humans who are on this journey to find
themselves need to look at how they fit in the world--- and this
begins with looking at how we fit in our family.

"Where do I belong...?"

"Why am I alone... why did everyone abandon me...?"

The need to be accepted-- to be gathered to the bosom of a loving
family-- is a major driving-force in the life of a survivor. This
need "to belong" is so intense that they may put themselves (and
others, such as their children) at risk, in order to "fit in".

Your wife is trying to figure out where she fits in her family of
origin... and her case is perhaps more confusing than others' because
she was abused by close relatives who were not her parents, yet she
was abused in the parental home (there is a big "WHY" blinking over
the heads of her parents: "Why did you let this happen to me?"). And
so, she returns "to the scene of the crime" to re-work some things...
and this is probably a good thing. But you are wise to question if
there is danger for your son, because your wife's need to figure out
some things in regard to herself blind her to the possible dangers to
her child. What she is going through is "all about HER", and children
need things to be "all about THEM". It may be a nice thing for him to
be around his grandparents (children can't have too many loving
people in their lives), but his mother may be off someplace else,
even if she is physically in the same room with him.

My survivor - same thing.  Stomach pains, bowel problems, surgeries,
headaches, she didn't enjoy eating... on and on.  Yes, there's
definitely a pattern between illness and survivors.

I have read in several different sources that serious
illness can be manifested in the intestinal tract,
stomach, reproductive , and nervious system by
survivors. My wife has had constant issues with her
reproductuve system, and as of late her intestinal
tract and stomach - IBS, etc...

If you beleive in chakra energies this is significant
to second chakra issues, and third chakra as well.

The source of the issues, the physical manifestations
and energy afflications are all related and
intertwined. It's tough to sit back and watch when you
know the source of the suffering. Makes you want to
just say PLEASE START DEALING WITH THINGS and it would
get better, but you can't, and they probably would't
anyway.


--- Shelly Strauss Rollison
<rainbowlady23@...> wrote:
> Does anyone else have to deal with their survivor
> and constant illness?
>
> My wife and I have been together for more than six
> years now. When we
> first met, she had terrible migraines and IBS
> (irritable bowel syndrome)
> that would take her out of commission for days. Both
> are caused by
> stress. When she moved here, away from her FOO
> (family of origin-- which
> includes her abuser), the stress level dropped
> dramatically. The
> migraines and the IBS slowly disappeared. But as
> soon as they were
> "manageable" and weren't causing her a lot of pain,
> her GERD started
> acting up to the point where she was taking 2 Zantac
> in the AM and 2 in
> the PM just to maintain a manageable level.
> Somewhere in the midst of
> this she developed a ruptured gland that required
> surgery. Then she had
> some operation to eliminate the GERD. Once the GERD
> (reflux) was gone,
> she began having a spate of kidney stones. Now we
> know what causes them
> and she's working on keeping them to a minimum. But
> as a result of the
> surgery for the ruptured gland, she developed a
> fistula. So she had to
> have a second surgery that finally got rid of the
> fistula and the wound
> is healed. Her surgeon "cut her loose" a couple
> weeks ago. Now suddenly
> she's having mysterious abdominal pain that no one
> can figure out but
> has her in tears and short of breath. We were in the
> ER on Tuesday night
> and will probably be in the ER when she gets home
> from work because
> that's where her doctor told her to go so they can
> run tests on such
> short notice. It's never ending and it's driving me
> nuts.......I firmly
> believe that this is all related to her abuse: it's
> a form of
> self-punishment. I don't think it's a coincidence
> that she's just
> started back to therapy and the first time she felt
> this pain was two
> days after her first therapy session.
>
> I know I must sound cold-hearted, but I'm tired of
> this. I'm sure she is
> too, but the only difference is that she can stop it
> and I can't. It
> won't stop until she heals and she won't heal until
> she faces up to what
> happened and she doesn't want to do that. She's only
> going to therapy
> now because she's convinced that I'll never believe
> she's "over it"
> until she DOES go to therapy. She told me a couple
> weeks ago that she
> felt like she was going crazy and then got pissed at
> me when I said,
> "And what are you goign to do about it." She seemed
> to think that
> sharing wtih me what she was feeling was enough. I
> told her that telling
> me she felt like she was going crazy was like
> telling me that she's hot
> when I can see she's standing next to a roaring
> fire. It's obvious. But
> to keep telling me she's going crazy or that she's
> stressed out and not
> do anything about it is like standing next to the
> fire and complaining
> that you're hot. You have to move away from the fire
> if you don't want
> to be hot. But in this situation, I can't make her
> move away from the
> fire. She tells me that every time i suggest that
> her illness is caused
> by the abuse, she feels utterly frustrated because
> it means there's
> nothing really wrong with her. And I keep telling
> her, nope, the
> illnesses are real, but you're only treating the
> symptoms and not the
> cause. The cause is like a splinter buried deep
> under the skin. If you
> just treat the infection, which is very real and
> very painful, it's
> going to keep coming back. You have to get the
> splinter out first. And
> that can be painful and it can be hard work,
> especially since the
> splinter has had the past 15 years (at least) to
> work deep into her.
>
> I'm torn-- on one had I recognize that she has to
> heal at her own pace.
> But on the other, I recongize too that she has
> developed survivor
> patterns that allow her to get through life with a
> minimal amount of
> pain and that she could go on like this forever if I
> enable her to do
> so. But I cannot. Oh, I suppose I could, but I
> choose not to. Yet where
> is that line between pushing her to heal and
> enabling her to survive?
>
> I've been in therapy for almost two years now trying
> to answer that
> question...*sigh*
>
> I have to go...my wife just got home and we're more
> than likely going to
> be heading to the ER again because of these stomach
> pains.....
>
> Love and Light,
> Shelly
> --
> The Purple Hat Project:
> http://rainbowsendpress.com/php/
>
> "The steel bars between me and a promise suddenly
> bend with ease.
> The closer I'm bound in love to you, the closer I am
> to free." --
>  Indigo Girls, "Power of Two"
>
> "If you refuse an active role in stopping injustice,
> you accept an
> active role in perpetuating it."
>
> "I do not have the right to force anyone to accept,
> agree to, support,
> practice, follow, adhere to, understand or condone
> my beliefs, but I
> have the right to have those beliefs and to have
> them recognized as
> valid if someone is trying to take them away from
> me."
>
> "There is no nation, by God exempted, lay down your
> weapons and Love
> your neighbor as yourself." --
>  Indigo Girls, "Our Deliverance"
>
> "You may not succeed, but you're not a failure as
> long as you keep trying."
>
> "Our brave young men are dying....Which of them
> might have written a
> poem? Which of them might have cured cancer? Which
> of them might have
> played in a World Series or given us the gift of
> laughter from the
> stage or helped build a bridge or a university?
> Which of them would
> have taught a child to read? It is our
> responsibility to let these
> men live....It is indecent if they die because of
> the empty vanity of
> their country.
>
> Do you suppose that ten years from now we will all
> look back and
> wonder how the American people ever went so far with
> something so
> terrible?" --Robert F. Kennedy, 1968
>
> The Rainbow's End: http://rainbowsendpress.com
> Resident Visionary:
> http://onespiritproject.com/Shelly/index.shtml
> My Two Cents Worth:
> http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/2138
> Choices: http://www.angelfire.com/co/rainbowlady/
>
>
>
>




__________________________________
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Does anyone else have to deal with their survivor and constant illness?

My wife and I have been together for more than six years now. When we
first met, she had terrible migraines and IBS (irritable bowel syndrome)
that would take her out of commission for days. Both are caused by
stress. When she moved here, away from her FOO (family of origin-- which
includes her abuser), the stress level dropped dramatically. The
migraines and the IBS slowly disappeared. But as soon as they were
"manageable" and weren't causing her a lot of pain, her GERD started
acting up to the point where she was taking 2 Zantac in the AM and 2 in
the PM just to maintain a manageable level. Somewhere in the midst of
this she developed a ruptured gland that required surgery. Then she had
some operation to eliminate the GERD. Once the GERD (reflux) was gone,
she began having a spate of kidney stones. Now we know what causes them
and she's working on keeping them to a minimum. But as a result of the
surgery for the ruptured gland, she developed a fistula. So she had to
have a second surgery that finally got rid of the fistula and the wound
is healed. Her surgeon "cut her loose" a couple weeks ago. Now suddenly
she's having mysterious abdominal pain that no one can figure out but
has her in tears and short of breath. We were in the ER on Tuesday night
and will probably be in the ER when she gets home from work because
that's where her doctor told her to go so they can run tests on such
short notice. It's never ending and it's driving me nuts.......I firmly
believe that this is all related to her abuse: it's a form of
self-punishment. I don't think it's a coincidence that she's just
started back to therapy and the first time she felt this pain was two
days after her first therapy session.

I know I must sound cold-hearted, but I'm tired of this. I'm sure she is
too, but the only difference is that she can stop it and I can't. It
won't stop until she heals and she won't heal until she faces up to what
happened and she doesn't want to do that. She's only going to therapy
now because she's convinced that I'll never believe she's "over it"
until she DOES go to therapy. She told me a couple weeks ago that she
felt like she was going crazy and then got pissed at me when I said,
"And what are you goign to do about it." She seemed to think that
sharing wtih me what she was feeling was enough. I told her that telling
me she felt like she was going crazy was like telling me that she's hot
when I can see she's standing next to a roaring fire. It's obvious. But
to keep telling me she's going crazy or that she's stressed out and not
do anything about it is like standing next to the fire and complaining
that you're hot. You have to move away from the fire if you don't want
to be hot. But in this situation, I can't make her move away from the
fire. She tells me that every time i suggest that her illness is caused
by the abuse, she feels utterly frustrated because it means there's
nothing really wrong with her. And I keep telling her, nope, the
illnesses are real, but you're only treating the symptoms and not the
cause. The cause is like a splinter buried deep under the skin. If you
just treat the infection, which is very real and very painful, it's
going to keep coming back. You have to get the splinter out first. And
that can be painful and it can be hard work, especially since the
splinter has had the past 15 years (at least) to work deep into her.

I'm torn-- on one had I recognize that she has to heal at her own pace.
But on the other, I recongize too that she has developed survivor
patterns that allow her to get through life with a minimal amount of
pain and that she could go on like this forever if I enable her to do
so. But I cannot. Oh, I suppose I could, but I choose not to. Yet where
is that line between pushing her to heal and enabling her to survive?

I've been in therapy for almost two years now trying to answer that
question...*sigh*

I have to go...my wife just got home and we're more than likely going to
be heading to the ER again because of these stomach pains.....

Love and Light,
Shelly
--
The Purple Hat Project: http://rainbowsendpress.com/php/

"The steel bars between me and a promise suddenly bend with ease.
The closer I'm bound in love to you, the closer I am to free." --
	 Indigo Girls, "Power of Two"

"If you refuse an active role in stopping injustice, you accept an
active role in perpetuating it."

"I do not have the right to force anyone to accept, agree to, support,
practice, follow, adhere to, understand or condone my beliefs, but I
have the right to have those beliefs and to have them recognized as
valid if someone is trying to take them away from me."

"There is no nation, by God exempted, lay down your weapons and Love
your neighbor as yourself." --
	 Indigo Girls, "Our Deliverance"

"You may not succeed, but you're not a failure as long as you keep trying."

"Our brave young men are dying....Which of them might have written a
poem? Which of them might have cured cancer? Which of them might have
played in a World Series or given us the gift of laughter from the
stage or helped build a bridge or a university? Which of them would
have taught a child to read? It is our responsibility to let these
men live....It is indecent if they die because of the empty vanity of
their country.

Do you suppose that ten years from now we will all look back and
wonder how the American people ever went so far with something so
terrible?" --Robert F. Kennedy, 1968

The Rainbow's End: http://rainbowsendpress.com
Resident Visionary: http://onespiritproject.com/Shelly/index.shtml
My Two Cents Worth: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/2138
Choices: http://www.angelfire.com/co/rainbowlady/

Thanks Kathy, for the words of wisdom and encouragement. I normally would not
say so much about K publically, but I've been at my wits end this week. I
realize I can do nothing to change him or his choices. I can however do
something about myself. I am making a special effort to take better care of me,
and my needs. I am also trying harder to let go and trust God.



Kathy <randomname@...> wrote:
I'll tell you what you already know, but sometimes it helps to hear
it said by another.

You can't rush the healing of this man you love... he must advance on
his own, or it won't be real and lasting. He knows you, and sees
you... and his statements and reactions are proof that you have
reached him on a profound level. If he goes to another woman, it's
his lesson. It hurts to sit back and watch the harpies tear apart the
man you love, but not until he can see Reality with clear eyes
himself, can he understand the power-play he is involved in.

Concentrate on you-- take care of yourself. Staying with this board
and the friends here, as long as there is meaning for you here, is a
very good thing. We need the wisdom of each other's experiences-- and
the empowerment that comes from supporting each other is a healing-
thing.






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It seems that survivors try to forge relationships with some members of
their family even if they were not particularly healthy relationships.  My
xgf has tried to maintain a relationship with her father who physically and
verbally abused her, but not sexually.  However, her half-sister (they share
the same mother) was abused sexually by her father (not biological) and she
has a hard time believing her sister...even when no one believed her.  It
seems they are desperate for family bonding.  For awhile my xgf admired how
much my family loves and respects me, but then she grew jealous even though
my family welcomed her and would have treated her like one of our own.  I
remember telling her one day when she was feeling particularly isolated from
her family that I wanted her to feel a part of my family and she said, "But
they're not".




Temafit@...





>From: b burk <bburk2002@...>
>Reply-To: positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com
>To: POS <positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [POS Worried & bewildered
>Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 07:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
>

Rewcently my wife (soon to be ex) made the decision to
move away, go live with her father. I am concerned and
it didn't dawn on me till recently - when she was
molested it was at his house, by his brothers and
sister, this same house. I have never understood why
or how she finds comfort there. She has always
remarked how she finds it peaceful; which it is, it's
out in the country and quiet, but the other stuff
attached to it.

She has always been pulled back there, to be around
her family; and partly I understand. I have no close
family anymore (most are way to old or have passed on)
but to make the choice to go be around people who are
not healthy themselves is strange to me in a way. I
mean her dad is a great guy but he has his issues and
her mom too. They aren't the best influences.

Her dad has said that those relatives will not be
allowed over there but he has let them before not
knowing how to handle it; and if my son is there I
don't want thos epeople around him; as I have posted
before, I don't care if there are a million armed
guards standing ready I don't wat my son anywhere near
them. Even the chance isn't worth it.

I don't know if she is trying to recapture part of her
life she feels she lost or what. She had remarked
several times that she just wanted to go back to
school and have someone pay for it - like parents
would do if they could when your first getting out
there. Mind you he isn't paying for it, just letting
her stay there as she gets on her feet. I don't see
this is a good move because of the underlying things
involved; I can't change that, it is her decision, but
I wish I understood why she wants to go back to that
place, be in that environment - willingly.

- on a side note something else struck me as odd - I
have come across an inordinate amount of women from
small town/rural areas who have experienced some type
of rape or molestation from family members. I can't
get my head around it. I grew up with that old joke of
inbred country folk and I see the reality behind it
and it makes me sick to my stomach. - So why is she
choosing to go back to that kind of element ? I really
just don't get it.

Chris L.



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Please don't think you have it "easy" in your relationship with a
survivor, just because she hasn't been cruel to you. You are always
hanging on tenterhooks, even in this "less stressful" relationship.
Congratulate yourself for finding love to be worth weathering the
storms. But she doesn't think she is worthy... and this is the hard
part, for you-- because you can tell her over and over again, but
unless she comes to understand her own worth herself, she will
continue to tell herself that she is evil (or worthless, or
undeserving).

My best "advice" is to tell you to always be the man that you are. If
you are true to yourself, you are also being loving to her. I'm sure
she already wonders why it is that you love her... and what you want
is for her to come to the understanding, some day, that you love her
because of who she is... and that who she is, is wonderful (not evil
or worthless or undeserving). And perhaps the best way to remain true
to yourself is to know your own worth... don't doubt yourself, or
your own value... don't fall into self-reproach or self-destruction.
Know how wonderful you are, and you teach the one you love something
about herself.

You ask if it is "normal" for a survivor of child sexual abuse to
want it.

Many things come into play, in this girl's thoughts and reactions.
There is no "normal"... but what has happened to her is exactly what
happens to all survivors of child sexual abuse: she has love and sex
all f**ked up. And this is what you are reacting to--- the fact that
she states that she enjoys/wants sex with her stepfather. It is a
horrific thing for a young girl to desire sex with her mother's
husband... and what that MUST say to you isn't that she was 'bad' or
horny, but that she was twisted-up in ways from which she may never
become untangled.

We can only speculate as to some of the reasons she desired sex with
her mother's husband-- but the primary one is that it felt like love.
She liked the feeling of "being loved"-- being held and made to
feel 'special' (who knows what the perp told her). Perhaps she was
abandoned by her biological father. Perhaps she felt a certain
rivalry with her mother. And sex can be a pleasurable thing. All
these factors feed into the enormous heap of guilt which weighs her
down-- the stuff she must look at, and for which she must forgive
herself if she is ever to get past self-destruction and stop loathing
herself.

Just look at what she was taught, by her stepfather and her
(unwitting) mother--- now, imagine her confusion and her shame and
guilt, and you'll have some understanding of the difficulty she will
have in understanding what real love is all about. She was a thing,
to be lied to and used. And the saddest part, is that her words speak
to the fact that she "bought it"-- she believed the lie that what her
stepfather did to her was love.

Thanks, Erin!  That's a great list to start with.  You know what, I
can't believe I haven't gone to the library. . . and I'm a teacher
. . . I should think of that!  (I've always had a problem seeing the
forest for the trees.)  Anyway, I'll take a look at some of those I
haven't heard of before now.  I truly appreciate you taking the time
to look up and type all that information!!!

hpfanmom











--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, Erin
<elfsorbet@y...> wrote:
>
> I started to compile a list of books that I thought you might be
interested in, but am not finished yet. Here are the ones I know of
for men survivors and partners of survivors.
>
> Specifically For Men:
>
> Victims No Longer: Men Recovering from Incest and Other Sexual Child
Abuse. Lew, Mike. Harper & Row, 1990.
>
> Wounded Boys Heroic Men: A Man's Guide to Recovering from Child
Abuse by Danial Jay Sonkin and Lenore E. A. Walker. (1998). Adams
Media Corporations; ISBN 1580620108
>
> For Partners:
>
> Trust after Trauma: A Guide to Relationships for Survivors and Those
Who Love Them by Aphrodite Matsakis, Ph.D. ISBN: 1572241012
Publisher: New Harbinger Publications
>
> Allies in Healing: When the Person You Love Was Sexually Abused as a
Child. Davis, Laura. HarperPerennial, 1991.
>
> Compassion Fatigue: Coping with Secondary Traumatic Stress Disorder
in Those Who Treat the Traumatized. Figley, C. Brunner-Mazel, 1995.
>
> Secondary Traumatic Stress: Self-Care Issues for Clinicians,
Researchers, and Educators. Stamm, B. Hudnall (Ed.). Sidran Press,
1995.
>
> Transforming the Pain: A Workbook on Vicarious Traumatization.
Saakvitne, Karen W. and Laurie Anne Pearlman. Norton, 1996.
>
> Unspeakable Truths & Happy Endings: Human Cruelty and the New Trauma
Therapy. Coffey, Rebecca. Sidran, 1998.
>
>
>
>
>
> hpfanmom <jhdlcart@n...> wrote:I have looked and looked in several
book stores, including Christian
> book stores, and have not been able to find books on sexual abuse
> written from a "spiritual" standpoint.  I know the titles of the
"self
> help" books that are available and have read some, but would like to
> have a different perspective on what my husband is going through.
Can
> anyone offer any suggestions or do you know of titles that may not
> jump right out at me as being about sexual abuse.  It's not exactly
> the kind of thing you want to march up to the information counter at
> Barnes and Noble and ask for.  In general, there don't seem to be
many
> books written about what men go through. . . anyway, if you have
> ideas, please share.  Thanks!
>
> hpfanmom
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: T F<mailto:temafit@...>
To:
positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com<mailto:positivepartnersofsurvivors@y\
ahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [POS needing help understanding...


Unfortunately, it can be very confusing for a young person experiencing
incest...if being touched in a sexual manner, it can feel good...superficially. 
This can also cause tremendous guilt later on when they realize sometimes they
got some superficial pleasure out of it.  But as Bill said, it does not OK what
the abuser was doing to your friend.  The balance of power in this type of
relationship is all upset.  The abuser was clearly taking advantage of a child
and causing immeasurable damage.  This is a good example how a survivor gets
love "all mucked up" as Kathy puts it.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: cmass30<mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
   To:
positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com<mailto:positivepartnersofsurvivors@y\
ahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:23 PM
   Subject: [POS needing help understanding...


   i have a friend that was sexual abused by stepfather 13 years ago,
   she is now 29. she kept a journal. in it there is a piece which is
   extremely disturbing. she writes:

   she doesnt know(meaning her mom) and if she finds out she would be
   disappointed because when he (stepfather) was doing this i wanted him
   to do it just as much as he did

   this is during the touching years 11-13
   16-17 was sex

   is this normal thinking?
   this sickens me to read it


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is another reading list:

Reading List

Background and Clinical Information on Childhood Sexual Abuse



Adams, Kenneth.  Silently Seduced:  When Parents Make Their Children Partners: 
Understanding Covert Incest.  Health Communications, 1991

Alderman, Tracy.  The Scarred Soul:  Understanding and Ending Self-Inflicted
Violence. Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Barnard, Charles.  “Alcoholism and Sex Abuse in the Family:  Incest and Marital
Rape.”  Journal of Chrmical Dependency Treadment 3(11), 1989, 131-144.

Batson, Susan & Ronald Batson.  Naming the Shadows:  A New Approach to
Individual and Group Psychotherapy for Adult Survivors of Childhood Incest. 
1997.

Blume, E. Sue.  Secret Survivors:  Uncovering Incest and Its Aftereffects in
Women.  New York, NY:  John Wiley and Sons, 1990.

Briere, John.  Child Abuse Trauma:  Theory and Treatment of the Lasting Effects.
New York, NY:  Springer Publishing Company, 1992.

Briere, John, D. Evans, M. Runtz, & T. Wall.  “Symptomatology in Men Who Were
Molested as Children:  A Comparison Study”.  American Journal of
Orthopsychiatry.  58:(3), 1988, 457-461.

Briere, John.  Therapy for Adults Molested as Children:  Beyond Survival.  New
York, NY:  Springer Publishing Company, 1989.

Bruckner, D.F., & P.E. Johnson.  “Treatment for Adult Male Victims of Childhood
Sexual Abuse”.  Social Casework, 68(2), 1987, 81-87.

Burgess, A., C. Hartman, & A. McCormack.  “Abused to Abuser:  Antecedents of
Socially Deviant Behaviors.  American Jornal of Psychiatry  144(11), 1987,
1431-1436.

Butler, Sandra.  Conspiracy of Silence:  The Trauma of Incest.  Volcano, CA: 
Volcano Press, Inc., 1985.

Cabe, Coe Neil.  Men In Pain:  Understanding the Male Survivor of Childhood
Abuse.  Aurora, OH:  Aurora Counseling Clinic, 1989.

Carnes, Patrick.  Out of the Shadows:  Understanding Sexual Addiction. 
CompCare, 1992.

Chu, James A.  Rebuilding Shattered Lives:  Thew Responsible Treatment of
Complex Post-Traumatic and Dissociative Disorders. Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press,
2002.

Cohen, Barry M., Mary-Michola Barnes, & Anita B. Rankin.   Managing Traumatic
Stress Through Art.  Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Cole, P. & C. Woolger.  “Incest Survivors:  The Relationship of Their
Perceptions of Their Parents & Their Own Parenting Attitudes.  Child Abuse &
Neglect 13(3), 1989, 409-416.

Courtois, Christine A.  Healing the Incest Wound:  Adult Survivors in Therapy. 
New York, NY:  W.W. Norton, 1988.

DeSalvo, Louise A.  Writing as a Way of Healing:  How Telling Our Stories
Transforms Our Lives.  Beacon Press, 2000.

Dimmock, Peter T.  “Adult Males Sexually Abused as Children:  Characteristics
and Implications for Treatment”.  Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 3((2),
1988, 203-221. Dolan, Yvonne M., Resolving Sexual Abuse:  Solution-Focused
Therapy and Ericksonian Hypnosis for Adult Survivors.  New York, NY:  W.W.
Norton, 1991.

Evert, Kathy & Inie Bijkerk.  When You’re Ready:  A Woman’s Heling from
Childhood Physical and Sexual Abuse by Her Mother.  Walnut Creek, CA:  Launch
Press, 1987.

Faller, Kathleen Coulborn.  Understanding Child Sexual Maltreatment.  Newbury
Park, CA:  Sage Publications, Inc., 1990.

Finkelhor, David.  Child Sexual Abuse:  New Theory and Research.  New York, NY: 
The Free Press, 1984.

Finkelhor, David.  A Sourcebook on Child Sexual Abuse.  Beverly Hills, CA:  Sage
Publications, 1986.

Forward, Susan & Craig Buck.  Betrayal of Innocence:  Incest and Its Devastation
(Revised).  New York, NY:  Penguin Books, 1988.

Fox, John.  Poetic Medicine:  The Healing Art of Poem Making.  J.P. Tarcher,
1997.

Fredrickson, Renee.  Repressed Memories:  A Journey to Recovery from Sexual
Abuse.  Simon & Schuster, 1992.

Freyd, Jennifer J.  Betrayal Trauma:  The Logic of Forgetting Childhood Abuse. 
Harvard University Press, 1998.

Fromuth, Mary Ellen & Barry R. Burkhart.  “Long-term Psychological Correlates of
Childhood Sexual Abuse in Two Sample of College Men”.  Child Abuse and Neglect,
13(4), 1989, 533-542.

Ganzarain, Ramon, & Bonnie Buchele.  Fugitives of Incest.  Madison, CT: 
International Universities Press, 1988.

Gil, Eliana.  Treatment of Adult Survivors of Childhood Abuse.  Walnut Creek,
CA:  Launch Press, 1988.

Gilgun, Jane F. & Elizabeth Reiser.  “The Development of Sexual Identity Among
Men Sexually Abused as Children”.  Families in Society, 71(9), 515-523.

Grayson, Joann (ed.).  “Male Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse”.  Virginia
Child Protection Newsletter, 31, 1990, 1-9.

Goodwin, J., & N. Talwar.  “Group Psychotherapy for Victims of Incest”.
Psychiatric Clinics of North America 12(2), 1989, 279-293.

Grayson, Joann, (ed.).  “Female Sex Offenders.  Virginia Child Protection
Newsletter.  Harrisonburg, VA:  James Madison University, Psychology Department,
1989.

Grayson, Joann (ed.).  “Male Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse”.  Virginia
Child Protection Newsletter, 31, 1990, 1-9.

Haugaard, Jeffrey, & N. Dicon Reppucci.  The Sexual Abuse of Children.  San
Francisco, CA:  Josey-Bass Publishers, Inc., 1988.

Herman, Judith Lewis.  Father-Daughter Incest.  Cambridge, MA:  Harvard
University Press, 1981.

Howard, R.  “Art Therapy as an Isomorphic Intervention in the Treatment of
Clients With Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.  American Journal of Art Therapy 
28(3), 1990, 79-86.

Kluft, Richard P.  Incest-Related Syndromes of Adult Psychopathology. 
Washington, DC:  American Psychiatric Press, 1990.

McKay, B.  “Uncovering Buried Roles Through Face Painting and Storytelling”.
Arts In Psychotherapy  14(3), 1987, 201-208.

Marano-Geiser, R.  “Through the Looking Glass:  II.  Impact on the Artist Self”.
Art Therapy 7(3), 1990, 110-113.

Meiselman, K.  Resolving the Trauma of Incest:  Reintegration Therapy With
Survivors.  Josey-Bass, 1990.

Naitove, C.  “Arts Therapy With Child Molesters:  An Historical Perspective on
the Act and an Approach to Treatment”.  Arts in Psychotherapy, 1988.

Ochberg, Frank.  Post-Traumatic Therapy and Victims of Violence.  New York: 
Brunner/Mazel Publishers, Inc., 1988.

Pearlman, Laurie Anne, Karen Saakvitne, Karen Saakvirne.  Trauma and the
Therapist:  Counter-transference and Vicarious Traumatization in Psycholtherapy
With Incest Survivors.  New York, NY:  W.W. Norton & Co., 1995.

Pellauer, Mary, Barbara Chester, & Jane Boyajian, eds.  Sexual Assault and
Abuse:  A Handbook for Clergy and Religious Professionals.  San Francisco, CA: 
Harper & Row, 1987.

Putnam, Frank W.  Deagnosis and Treatment of Multiple Personality Disorder. 
Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Ramseyer, J.  “Through the Looking Glass:  III.  Exploring the Dark Side Through
Post-Session Artwork”.  Art Therapy 7(3), 1990, 114-118.

Ritual Abuse Task Force.  Los Angeles County Commission for Women, Ritual Abuse,
1989.  Order from Los Angeles County Commission for Women, 383 Hall of
Administration, 500 W. Temple Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012.

Rohsenow, D., R. Corbett, & D. Devine.  “Molested as Children:  A Hidden
Contribution to Substance Abuse?”  Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment 5(1),
1988, 13-18.

Root, M.  “Treatment Failures:  The Role of Sexual Victimization in Women’s
Addictive Behavior”.  American Journal of Orthopsychiatry 59(4), 542-549.

Ross, Colin A.  Dissociative Identity Disorder:  Diagnosis, Clinical Features,
and Treatment of Multiple Personality.  Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Russell, Diana E. H.  The Secret Trauma:  Incest in the Lives of Girls and
Women.  New York, NY:  Basic Books, 1986.

Sarrel, P., & W. Masters.  “Sexual Molestation of Men by Women”.  Archives of
Sexual Behavior  11(2), 1982, 117-131.

Saakvitne, Karen W., Sarah Gamble, Laurie Anne Pearlman, & Beth Tabor Lev.  A
Training Curriculum for Working With Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse.
Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Scheinberg, Marcia, and Peter Fraenkel.  The Relational Trauma of Incest:  A
Family-Based Approach to Treatment.  Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Sgroi, Suzanne (ed.).  Vulnerable Populations:  Evaluation and Treatment of
Sexually Abused Children and Adult Survivors.  Lexington, MA:  Lexington Books,
1988.

Sidran Traumatic Stress Institute.  Understanding the Effects of Traumatic
Stress:  A Training Manual for Community Agencies.  Baltimore, MD:  Sidran,
2002.

Singer, K.  “Group Work With Men Who Experienced Incest in Childhood”.  American
Journal of Orthopsychiatry  59(3), 1989, 468-472.

Stamm, B. Hudnall.  Secondary Traumatic Stress:  Self-care Issues for
Clinicians, Researchers, and Educators. Sidran Press, 1999.

Stone, M.  “Individual Psychotherapy With Victims of Incest”.  The Psychiatric
Clinics of North America  12(2), 1989, 237-250.

Strand, Virginia C.  Treating Secondary Victims:  Intervention With the
Non-Offending Mother in the Incest Family.  Sage Publications, 2000.

Van Der Kolk, Bessel.  Psychological Trauma.  Washington, DC:  American
Psychiatric Press, 1987.

Westerlund, Elaine.  Responding to Incest:  In Memory of Nancy.  Cincinnatti,
OH:  Forward Movement Publications, 1988.

Wilkerson, Jennifer.  Getting Real:  Relational Peer Support for Men and Women
Who Have Experienced Trauma.  Baltimore, MD:  Sidran, 2002.

Wise, M.  “Adult Self Injury as a Survival Response in Survivors of Childhood
Abuse”.  Journal of Chemical Dependency Treatment 3(1), 1989, 185-201.



  General Sources for Survivors of Sexual Abuse



  Adams, Kathleen.  The Way of the Journal:  A Journal Therapy Workbook for
Healing.  Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Adams, Kenneth.  Silently Seduced:  When Parents Make Their Children Partners: 
Understanding Covert Incest.  Health Communications, 1991.

Allender, Dan B.  The Wounded Heart:  Hope for Adult Victims of Childhood Sexual
Abuse.  Colorado Springs, CO:  NavPress, 1990.

Allender, Dan B.  The Wounded Heart Workbook.  Colorado Springs, CO:  NavPress,
1992.

Bass, Ellen & Laura Davis.  The Courage to Heal:  A guide for Women Survivors of
Child Sexual Abuse.  New York, NY:  Harper & Rowe, 1988.

Bass, Ellen & Louise Thornton.  I Never Told Anyone:  Writings by Women
Survivors of Child Sexual Abuse.  New York, NY:  Harper & Row, 1983.

Bear, Euan, with Peter T. Dimock.  Adults Molested as Children:  A Survivor’s
Manual for Women and Men.  Orwel, VT:  The Safer Society Press, 1989.

Beattie, Melody.  Codependent No More:  How To Stop Controlling Others and Start
Caring About Yourself.  New York, NY:  Harpter & Row, 1987.

Blume, E.S.  Secret Survivors:  Uncovering Incest and Its After Effects.  New
York, NY:  Wiley, 1990.

Bonner, Helen.  The Laid Daughter:  A True Story.  Austin, Texas:  Kairos
Center, 1995.

Bradshaw, John.  Bradshaw on the Family.  Health Communications, 1996.

Bradshaw, John.  Family Secrets:  What You Don’t Know Can Hurt You.  Bantam
Books, 1995.

Bradshaw, John.  Healing the Shame the Binds You.  Health Communications, 1988.

Bradshaw, John.  Homecoming:  Reclaiming and Championing Your Inner Child. 
Bantam Books, 1990.

Broach-Sowels, Holly.  Daddy Don’t (Letters to my Father)(A Story of Incest). 
Cincinnati, OH:  Kehori Publishers, 1993.

Capacchione, L.  The Creative Journal.  Athens, OH:  Swallow Press, 1979.

Capacchione, L.  The Creative Journal For Children. Boston, MA:  Shambhala,
1989.

Carnes, Patrick.  Out of the Shadows:  Understanding Sexual Addiction. 
CompCare, 1992.

Childhelp USA.  Survivors Guide.  6463 Independence Avenue, Woodland Hills, CA
91367:  Survivors of Child Abuse Program, 1987.

Cohen, Barry M., Mary-Michola Barnes, & Anita B. Rankin.   Managing Traumatic
Stress Through Art.  Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Cohen, Barry, Esther Giller, & Lynn W.  Multiple Personality Disorder from the
Inside Out.  Baltimore, MD:  Sidran, 2002.

Corwin, Nina.  “Self Acceptance and Self Worth:  The Components of Self Esteem”.
Survival Kit II:  Surviving . . . To Thriving!!!”  Chicago, IL:  VOICES in
Action, Inc., 1991.

Courtois, Christine A.  Healing the Incest Wound:  Adult Survivors in Therapy. 
New York, NY:  W.W. Norton, 1988.

Daugherty, Lynn B.  Why Me?  Help for Victims of Sexual Abuse (Even If They are
Adults Now).  Racine, WI:  Mother Courage Press, 1984.

Davis, Laura & Ellen Bass.  The Courage to Heal Workbook:  For Women and Men
Survivors of Child Sexual Abuse. Hagerstown, MD:  Harper & Rowe, 1990.

DeSalvo, Louise A.  Writing as a Way of Healing:  How Telling Our Stories
Transforms Our Lives.  Beacon Press, 2000.

Engel, Beverly.  The Right To Innocence:  Healing the Trauma of Childhood Sexual
Abuse.  Ivy Books, 1991.

Engel, Beverly.  Raising Your Sexual Self-Esteem:  How to Feel Better About Your
Sexuality and Yourself.  New York, NY:  Fawcett Columbine, 1995.

Feldmeth, Joanne Ross, & Midge Wallace Finley.  We Weep for Ourselves and Our
Children:  A Christian Guide for Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse.  San
Francisco, CA:  HarperCollins, 1990.

Forward, Susan and Craig Buck.  Betrayal of Innocence:  Incest and Its
Devastation.  Penguin Books, 1988.

Fox, John.  Poetic Medicine:  The Healing Art of Poem Making.  J.P. Tarcher,
1997

Frank, Jan.  Door of Hope:  Recognizing and Resolving the Pains of Your Past. 
Nashville, TN:  Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1995.

Fredrickson, Renee.  Repressed Memories:  A Journey to Recovery from Sexual
Abuse.  Simon & Schuster, 1992.

Freyd, Jennifer J.  Betrayal Trauma:  The Logic of Forgetting Childhood Abuse. 
Harvard University Press, 1998.

Gannon, J. Patrick.  Soul Survivors:  A New Beginning for Adults Abused as
Children.  New York, NY:  Prentice Hall, 1989.

Gil, Eliana.  Outgrowing the Pain:  A Book For and About Adults Abused as
Children. .  Walnut Creek, CA:  Launch Press, 1983.

Grubman-Black, Stephen D.  Broken Boys/Mending Men:  Recovery from Childhood
Sexual Abuse.  Bradenton, FL:  Human Services Institute, an imprint of TAB
Books, 1990.

Hancock, Maxine, & Karen Burton Mains.  Child Sexual Abuse:  A Hope for Healing.
Wheaton, IL:  Harold Shaw Publishers, 1987.

Healing Woman Foundation.  The Healing Journal:  The International Journal for
Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse. Baltimore, MD:  Sidran, 2002.

Heitritter, Lynn, & Jeanette Vought.  Helping Victims of Sexual Abuse. 
Minneapolis, MN:  Bethany House, 1989.

Herman, Judith Lewis.  Father-Daughter Incest.  Cambridge, MA:  Harvard
University Press, 1981.

Herman, Judith Lewis.  Trauma and Recovery.  Basic Books, 1997.

Hobson, Nancy.  Cry Uncle.  Denver, CO:  Mac Publishing, 1989.

Hocking, Sandra J., & Co.  Living With Your Selves:  A Manual for People With
Muliple Personalities. Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Hollies, Linda H.  Inner Healing for Broken Vessels:  Seven Steps to a Woman’s
Way of Healing.  Nashville, TN:  Upper Room Books, 1992.

Humbert, Cynthia Spell.  Deceived by Shame, Desired by God.  Colorado Springs,
CO:  NavPress, 2001.

Hunter, Mic.  Abused Boys:  The Neglected Victims of Sexual Abuse.  New York,
NY:  Fawcett Columbine, 1990.

Kasl, C.  “The Role of Addiction and Spirituality in Recovery from Childhood
Abuse”.  Survival Kit II:  Surviving . . . To Thriving!!!  Chicago, IL:  VOICES
In Action, Inc., 1991.

Katherine, Anne.  Boundaries:  Where You End and I Begin.  Park Ridge, IL: 
Parkside Publishing, 1991.

Kepler, V.  One In Four.  Mansfield, OH:  Social Interest, 1984.

Kreisman, J. & H. Straus.  I Hate You--Don’t Leave Me:  Understanding the
Borderline Personality.  New York, NY:  Avon, 1989.

Lamb-Bryant, L.  How To Confront Your Perpetrator:  Dead or Alive.  Chicago, IL:
VOICES In Action, Inc., 1985.

Levin, P.  “The Development Cycle:  Its Stages, Clues and Tasks”.  Survival Kit
II:  Surviving . . . To Thriving!!!  Chicago, IL:  VOICES In Action, Inc., 1991.

Lew, Mike.  Victims No Longer:  Men Recovering From Incest and Other Sexual
Child Abuse.  New York:  Harper & Row, 1990.

Lison, K.  24 Stages of Growth for Survivors of Incest.  Chicago, IL:  VOICES In
Action, Inc., 1985.

Lison, K.   What Helps?  Responses and Suggestions on How to Survive.  Chicago,
IL:  VOICES In Action, Inc., 1985.

Lowenstein, S.  “The Bond Abused:  A Jewish Survivor of Incest Breaks the
Silence”. Survival Kit II:  Surviving . . . To Thriving!!!  Chicago, IL:  VOICES
In Action, Inc., 1991.

Lund, Lauren & David Lund.  Many Minds. Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Maltz, Wendy.  The Sexual Healing Journey:  A Guide for Survivors of Sexual
Abuse.  New York, NY:  HarperCollins, 1991.

Maltz, Wendy, & Beverly Holman.  Incest and Sexuality:  A Guide to Understanding
and Healing.  Lexington, MA:  Lexington Books, 1987.

Matsakis, Aphrodite.  I Can’t Get Over It:  A Handbood for Trauma Survivors. 
New Harbinger Publications, 1996.

May, Gerald G.  Addiction and Grace:  Love and Spirituality in the Healing of
Addictions.  San Francisco, CA:  HarperCollins, 1988.

McClure, Mary Beth.  Reclaiming the Heart:  A Handbook for Help and Hope for
Survivors of Incest.  1990.

Meiselman, K.  Resolving the Trauma of Incest:  Reintegration Therapy With
Survivors.  Josey-Bass, 1990.

Miletski, Hani.  Mother-Son Incest:  The Unthinkable Broken Taboo.  Safer
Society Press, 1999.

Mellody, Pia.  Facing Codependence.  San Francisco, CA:  Harper & Row, 1989.

Napier, Nancy J.  Getting Through the Day:  Strategies for Adults Hurt as
Children.  Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Peters, David.  A Betrayal of Innocense:  What Everyone Should Know About Child
Sexual Abuse.  Waco, TX:  Word Books, Inc., 1986.

Platt, Melody.  Breading the Silence:  A Personal Story of Incest and Recovery. 
Rainbow Books, 1998.

Queer Press Collective.  Loving in Fear:  An Anthology of Lesbian and Gay
Survivors of Childhood Sexual Abuse.  Toronto, ON:  Queer Press, 1991.

Rench, Janice E.  Understanding Sexual Identity:  A Book for Gay and Lesbian
Teens and Their Friends.  Minneapolis, MN:  First Avenue Editions/Lerner, 1990.

Richards, James B.  How To Stop the Pain.  New Kensington, PA:  Whitaker House,
2001.

Ryder, Daniel.  Breaking the Circle of Ritual Satanic Abuse.  Minneapolis, MN: 
CompCare, 1992.

Saakvitne, Karen W. and Laurie Anne Pearlman.  Transforming the Pain:  A
Workbook on Vicarious Traumatization.  W.W. Norton & Co., 1996.

Sanford, John A.  The Invisible Partners:  How the Male and Female in Each of Us
Affects Our Relationships.  New York, NY:  Paulist Press, 1980.

Schwartz, Mark F., & Leigh Cohn.  Sexual Abuse and Eating Disorders. Baltimore,
MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Schmidt, K. Louise.  Transforming Abuse:  Nonviolent Resistance and Recovery. 
Gabriola Island, BC:  New Society Publishers, 1995.

Seamands, David A.  Healing for Damaged Emotions:  Recovering From the Memories
That Cause Our Pain.  Colorado Springs, CO:  Chariot Victor Publishing, 1991.

Seamands, David A.  Redeeming the Past:  Recovering From the Memories That Cause
Our Pain.  Colorado Springs, CO:  Victor, 2002.

Sidran Traumatic Stress Institute.  How To Choose a Therapist. Baltimore, MD: 
Sidran Press, 2002.

Subbey, Robert.  Healing the Family Within:  Codependency.  Deerfield Beach, FL:
Health Communications, 1990.

Tada, Joni Eareckson, & Steven Estes.  When God Weeps:  Why Our Sufferings
Matter to the Almighty.  Grand Rapids, MI:  Zondervan, 1997.

Tanner, Vicki, & Lynda Elliott.  My Father’s Child:  Help and Healing for the
Victims of Emotional, Sexual, and Physical Abuse.  Brentwood, TN:  Wolgemuth &
Hyatt, Publishers, Inc., 1988.

Thomas, T.  Surviving With Serenity:  Daily Meditations for Incest Survivors. 
1990.

Tockey, Leona.  Forget the Night:  Awakening in a Memory of Incest.  Santa
Clara, CA:  Life Arrow, 1995.

Vates, Kelly.  Shattered Innocence:  A Revealing Story of Sexual Abuse, Its
Aftermath, and Recovery.  Evergreen Press, 2001.

Vermilyea, Elizabeth G.  Growing Beyond Survival:  A Self-Help Toolkit for
Managing Traumatic Stress.  Baltimore, MD:  Sidran, 2002.

Williams, Mary Jane.  Healing Hidden Memories:  Recovery for Adult Survivors of
Childhood Abuse.  Deerfield Beach, FL:  Health Communications, 1991.

Wolter, Dwight Lee.  Forgiving Our Parents:  For Adult Children from
Dysfunctional Families.  Minneapolis, MN:  CompCare Publishers, 1989.

Wortitz, Janet.  Healing Your Sexual Self.  Deerfield Beech, FL:  Health
Communications, 1989.







Resources for Pro-Survivors





Barshinger, Clark, Lojan LaRowe, & Andres Tapin.  Haunted Marriage:  Overcoming
the Ghosts of Your Spouse’s Childhood Abuse.  Downer’s Grove, IL:  Intervarsity
Press, 1995.

Boat, Barbara W. & Gary Peterson.  Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) Explained
for Kids. Baltimore, MD:  Sidran Press, 2002.

Beattie, Melody.  Beyond Codependency.  New York, NY:  HarperCollins, 1989.

Beattie, Melody.  Codependent No More:  How To Stop Controlling Others and Start
Caring About Yourself.  Center City, MN:  Hazelden Books, 2000.

Berry, Carmen Renee.  When Helping You is Hurting Me:  Escaping the Messiah
Trap.  New York, NY:  Harper & Row, 1988.

Cameron, Grant.  What About Me?  A Guide for Men Helping Female Partners Deal
With Childhood Sexual Abuse. Creative Bound, 1994.

Cloud, Henry, & John Townsend.  Boundaries:  When to Say Yes, When to Say No, To
Take Concrol of Your Life.  Grand Rapids, MI:  Zondervan, 1992.

Covington, Stephanie, & Liana Beckett.  Leaving the Enchanted Forest:  The Path
from Relationship Addiction to Intimacy.  New York, NY:  Harper & Row, 1988.

Davis, Laura.  Allies in Healing:  When the Person You Love Was Sexually Abused
as a Child.  New York, NY:  HarperCollins, 1991.

Engel, Beverly.  Families in Recovery.  Los Angeles, CA:  Lowell House, 1994.

Engel, Beverly.  Partners in Recovery.  New York, NY:  Fawcett Columbine, 1991.

Engel, Beverly.  Raising Your Sexual Self-Esteem:  How to Feel Better About Your
Sexuality and Yourself.  New York, NY:  Fawcett Columbine, 1995.

Gil, Eliana.  Outgrowing the Pain Together:  A Book for Partners of Adults
Abused as Children.  New York, NY:  Dell Bantam Doubleday, 1991.

Graber, Ken.  Ghosts in the Bedroom:  A Guide for Partners of Incest Survivors. 
Deerfield Beach, FL:  Health Communications, 1991.

Hamby, Warren.  When Childhood Sexual Abuse Affects Couples.  Available from
Come To The Waters, 149 Buck Creek Plaza Ste. E, Alabaster, AL.  2001.

Hamby, Warren.  Your Spouse or Sweetheart is a Survivor of Childhood Sexual
Abuse.  Available from Come To The Waters, 149 Buck Creek Plaza Ste. E,
Alabaster, AL.  35007.  2001.

Hansen, Paul.  Survivors and Partners:  Healing the Relationships of Adult
Survivors of Child Sexual Abuse.  Available from Paul Hanson, 7548 Cresthill
Dr., Longmont, CO 80501.

Heitritter, Lynn, & Jeanette Vought.  Helping Victims of Sexual Abuse. 
Minneapolis, MN:  Bethany House, 1989.

Hemfelt, Robert, et. al.  Love is a Choice:  Recovery for Co-dependent
Relationships.  Nashville, TN:  Thomas Nelson, 1991.

Hendrix, Harville.  Getting the Love You Want.  A Guide for Couples.  New York,
NY:  Harper & Row, 1990.

Hocking, Sandra J., & Phoenix J. Hocking.  Someone I Know Has Multiple
Personalities:  A Book for Significant Others:  Family, Friends, and Caring
Professionals. Walnut Creek, CA:  Launch Press, 1994.

Hunter, Mic.  Joyous Sexuality :  Healing from the Affects of Family Sexual
Dysfunction.  Minneapolis, MN:  CompCare, 1992.

Katherine, Anne.  Boundaries:  Where You End and I Begin.  Park Ridge, IL: 
Parkside Publishing, 1991.

Keesling, Barbara.  Sexual Healing.  Alameda, CA:  Hunter House, 1996.

Kritsberg, Wayne.  Healing Together.  Deerfield Beach, FL:  Health
Communications, 1990.

Lerner, Harriet.  The Dance of Anger:  A Woman’s Guide to Changing the Patterns
of Intimate Relationships.  New York, NY:  Harper & Row, 1986.

Levine, Robert Barry.  When You Are the Partner of a Rape or Incest Survivor--A
Workbook for You.  San Jose, CA:  Resource Publications, Inc., 1996.

Maltz, Wendy.  The Sexual Healing Journey:  A Guide for Survivors of Sexual
Abuse.  New York, NY:  HarperCollins, 1991.

Maltz, Wendy, & Beverly Holman.  Incest and Sexuality:  A Guide to Understanding
and Healing.  Lexington, MA:  Lexington Books, 1987.

Marlin, Emily.  Relationships in Recovery:  Healing Strategies for Couples and
Families.  New York, NY:  Harper & Row, 1990.

Matsakis, Aphrodite.  Trust After Trauma:  A Guide to Relationships for
Survivors and Those Who Love Them.  New Harbinger, 1998.

McEnvoy, Alan, & Jeff Brookings.  If She Is Raped:  A Book for Husbands,
Fathers, and Male Friends.  Holmes Beach, FL:  Learning Publications, 1984.

Mellody, Pia.  Facing Codependence.  San Francisco, CA:  Harper & Row, 1989.

O’Connor, Dagmar.  How to Make Love to the Same Person for the Rest of Your Life
and Still Love It.  New York, NY:  Bantam Books, 1985.

Omartian, Stormie.  The Power of a Praying Husband.  Eugene, OR:  Havest House,
2001.

Omartian, Stormie.  The Power of a Praying Wife.  Eugene, OR:  Harvest House,
1997.

Orr, Tracy.  No Right Way:  The Voices of Mothers of Incest Survivors.  1995.

Peters, David.  A Betrayal of Innocense:  What Everyone Should Know About Child
Sexual Abuse.  Waco, TX:  Word Books, Inc., 1986.

Sanford, John A.  The Invisible Partners:  How the Male and Female in Each of Us
Affects Our Relationships.  New York, NY:  Paulist Press, 1980.

Schaef, Anne Wilson.  Escape from Intimacy.  New York, NY:  Harper & Row, 1989.

Spear, J.  How Can I Help Her?  A Handbook for Partners of Women Sexually Abused
as Children.  Center City, Minnesota:  Hazelden, 1991.

Subbey, Robert.  Healing the Family Within:  Codependency.  Deerfield Beach, FL:
Health Communications, 1990.

Tyler, Janis.  Mothers of Incest Survivors:  Another Side of the Story. 
Johnson, 1992.

Wegscheider-Cruse, Sharon.  Coupleship:  How to Have a Relationship.  Deerfield
Beach, FL:  Health Communications, Inc., 1988.

Weinhold, Barry & Janae Weinhold.  Breaking Free of the Co-dependency Trap. 
Walpole, NY:  Stillpoint Publishers, 1989.

Winfield, Charles.  Co-dependence:  Healing the Human Condition.  Deerfield
Beach, FL:  Health Communications, 1991.

Woititz, Janet.  Struggle for Intimacy.  Pompano Beach, FL:  Health
Communications, 1985.





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Thom,
You mentioned that your wife seems to be concentrating an awful lot on her past.
Unfortunately, it is necessary for her to face what happened to her in order to
process it and acknowledge how it affects her life today.  However, you seem to
be expressing that she isn't moving forward.  You said, "..she doesn't see what
the future can hold for her."  I will be totally honest with you.  As a
survivor, I have a very hard time hoping, looking forward, dreaming, fortune
telling, etc.  I do not anticipate *good* things well (although I am learning
and the more positive history I give myself now, the easier it becomes).
One thing that I think may help is to encourage your wife to concentrate on the
HERE and NOW.  If she lives in today, it is easier to recognize that she has a
lot to be thankful for.  She does not have to be doomed to get stuck in the past
horrors and she does not have to fear or dread for bad results in the future. 
I'm not sure if this makes much sense, but it has a lot to do with being
present.  As someone who has been known to have flashbacks and triggers
interrupt my current life, it has helped me immensely to learn "grounding
techniques", which remind me that what I am remembering is not happening now. 
Now I am safe, I have survived the worst, etc., etc.  Some of them involve
sensory awareness - physically touching things in my environment (petting my
dog, feeling the fabric of the seat cushion I am sitting on, etc.);seeing what
is around me (the walls of my home are not the ones I suffered abuse in, seeing
my doors locked, recognizing I am in a different place,etc.);
  listening (I hear my breathing and can slow it down, I know the noises around
me are safe - ceiling fan, dishwasher, air conditioner - these are all sounds
from my safe home).  These may sound a bit strange to you, but as a survivor, I
have not always been in the moment with the rest of humanity.  I had numbed
myself to nearly everything.  I am sometimes consumed with ghosts of the past
and have a hard time concentrating fully on being alive in the moment.  These
exercises allowed me to get in touch with my sensory feelings, which in turn
helped me to have actual feelings and emotions (like sadness, happiness, hurt,
pain, joy, etc).  Like many survivors, I shut those parts of me "off" to protect
myself, but later found I wasn't allowing myself to be human and was missing out
on a lot.  It has been quite a process - learning to be human...Basically, more
than anything, what I wanted to express was my support for you.  You are doing
what is best for you and your children RIGHT NOW.
  That is what matters most.  While I would like to say that your wife may notice
your changes, observe the positive effects they are having on your lives, and
try to do the same, I am not sure that your wife is even aware of what is
happening in the present.  I'm glad that you haven't given up.  There is still a
life worth living.
Erin

Thom Pronk <tpronk@...> wrote:
Erin:
Thanks for the words of support. I listen to your story and it sounds very
familar. I am painfully aware that I cannot make, help, or even inspire my wife
to do what she needs to do. It is just difficult watching someone you care about
so much do things that hurt everyone around her. I feel like she focuses so much
on the past that she doesn't see what the future can hold for her. I am working
very hard right now to take more care of me and our kids. I just hope she will
follow.

Thanks again for your support.
Thom

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I'll tell you what you already know, but sometimes it helps to hear
it said by another.

You can't rush the healing of this man you love... he must advance on
his own, or it won't be real and lasting. He knows you, and sees
you... and his statements and reactions are proof that you have
reached him on a profound level. If he goes to another woman, it's
his lesson. It hurts to sit back and watch the harpies tear apart the
man you love, but not until he can see Reality with clear eyes
himself, can he understand the power-play he is involved in.

Concentrate on you-- take care of yourself. Staying with this board
and the friends here, as long as there is meaning for you here, is a
very good thing. We need the wisdom of each other's experiences-- and
the empowerment that comes from supporting each other is a healing-
thing.

Erin:
Thanks for the words of support. I listen to your story and it sounds very
familar. I am painfully aware that I cannot make, help, or even inspire my wife
to do what she needs to do. It is just difficult watching someone you care about
so much do things that hurt everyone around her. I feel like she focuses so much
on the past that she doesn't see what the future can hold for her. I am working
very hard right now to take more care of me and our kids. I just hope she will
follow.

Thanks again for your support.
Thom

Erin <elfsorbet@...> wrote:
Dear Thom,
I am so sorry that you feel so alone right now.  Let me assure you that the
people here are listening and can relate to all you are going through right now.
I hope that you will be able to embrace the support offerred here.  It is very
important that you be given an opportunity to share what you are going through. 
There is a saying - "You are only as sick as your secrets."
I need to tell you that I am not a partner of a survivor.  I am a survivor
myself.  But the reason that I wanted to write to you is because there is Hope. 
My experience is proof.  I was abused for 15 years from the ages of 2-17(that I
remember pieces of) and struggle daily with diagnoses of depression and PTSD.  I
spent many years in self-defeating and self-destructive (sucicidal)behaviors,
self-medicating and hiding from the pain of what I survived.  Unfortunately, I
know why your wife has not taken the steps to get professional help.  You must
remember that you cannot do things for her which only she can do for herself. 
But, you can set an example.  You can take good care of you and be a healthy
influence in your childrens' lives.  Please continue to reach out for the help
you need.
Erin


tpronk <tpronk@...> wrote:
I will try to be brief. I have been in a relationship with my beautiful wife for
12 years. We have 4 wonderful children, a beautiful house, are active in our
church, and things are beginning to fall apart.

My wife was sexually abused by her father and grandfather for about 13 years.
She suffers daily, and progressively worse in the last 2-3 years with
depression, PTSD, and a host of other issues. I have begged her for our entire
relationship to get professional help, but she has not taken the steps. Now she
is angry, distant, cold and
even self endagering. A few weeks ago, she put her hands on her neck and said
she wanted to die.

I am working hard at keeping my relationship alive, but feel so alone in my
world. I am an extravert, but feel trapped in my little secret. I desperately
need to talk to someone who is or has experienced some of the things I am going
through. I want to help my wife, but I don't want to lose myself and my kids
along the way.

I have never done anything like this before, and any correspondence would be
greatly appreciated. I am not looking for someone to fix my problems, only
listen.

Thom



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