Hi There,

I am a survivor of childhood incest and It does make you feel worthless, angry,
low low self esteem, you literally take everything somebody says to heart as you
have no sense of value of yourself.

Ok so you said some stupid things in the heat of the moment,,,,,,,,,dont we
all????  I know it is hard but please try not to beat yourself up over it, maybe
comfort your wife as much as you can, and explain that you were in the wrong,
and you never meant any of what you said.

In my experience, someone might say something silly to me, and I will blow it up
to be bigger, because of my past I expect to be hurt, its common in incest
survivors, we always throw up our defenses to protect ourselves because that is
all we know..........sounds like subconciously that is what your wife is doing.

Time is a great healer, and keep communicating!

Hope this helps.

Claire




________________________________
From: dnlcf <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
To: positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:00:50 PM
Subject: [POS Triggers

 
Hello:

I am new to the group. My wife is a survivor of childhood incest and adult rape.
She has been going through a lot lately since about a year and a half ago that
she came to terms with her abuse. I write to ask about how the partner handles
triggers and the explosions that follow if a trigger is pulled. Last night, I
said some REALLY stupid things that devalued my partner and brought to the fore
her self-esteem and self-worth issues that she has wrestled with all her life.
She has said that she will hear me saying those things for the rest of her life.
I feel so guilty.

What can I do here?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello:

I am new to the group. My wife is a survivor of childhood incest and adult rape.
She has been going through a lot lately since about a year and a half ago that
she came to terms with her abuse.  I write to ask about how the partner handles
triggers and the explosions that follow if a trigger is pulled.  Last night, I
said some REALLY stupid things that devalued my partner and brought to the fore
her self-esteem and self-worth issues that she has wrestled with all her life. 
She has said that she will hear me saying those things for the rest of her life.
I feel so guilty.

What can I do here?

Hello

I assume you partner is a survivor because you are posting here.  Many survivors
have learned to role play, zone out, isolate etc. as a coping mechanism learned
from the original abuse.  This was often the only way to deal with what was
happening.   I would not try to change how a person acts during sex, but if you
feel there is something really bothering you, I would discuss it before or
sometime afterwards.   I hope you also experience love and affection not just
during sex!




--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "hermioneblair"
<uinfinity@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm new to this group. I have been with my partner for 2 years and we have
gone through A LOT.  I have been having a lot of anxiety problems and it's
amazing how many ppl are going through similar things. I had no idea I wasn't
alone.
>
> I wanted to ask everyone how they deal with sex. I am a woman who enjoys sex
very much. My partner does too, but... a lot of times she shies away from sex
and will have a panic attack right in the middle, leaving me to try and calm my
hormones and not be disappointed, while cuddling and calming her. In addition,
she almost always needs to "roleplay" in order to not be herself. I am a very
loving person and like to connect...and be myself during sex, so this is hard. A
lot of times when I want to have sex, she doesn't and it really hurts my self
esteem...it makes me wonder if she loves me and is sexually attracted to me. She
swears that she is though. I guess, I'm just wondering how other ppl deal with
this and does it get better?
>

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this group. I have been with my partner for 2 years and we have gone
through A LOT.  I have been having a lot of anxiety problems and it's amazing
how many ppl are going through similar things. I had no idea I wasn't alone.

I wanted to ask everyone how they deal with sex. I am a woman who enjoys sex
very much. My partner does too, but... a lot of times she shies away from sex
and will have a panic attack right in the middle, leaving me to try and calm my
hormones and not be disappointed, while cuddling and calming her. In addition,
she almost always needs to "roleplay" in order to not be herself. I am a very
loving person and like to connect...and be myself during sex, so this is hard. A
lot of times when I want to have sex, she doesn't and it really hurts my self
esteem...it makes me wonder if she loves me and is sexually attracted to me. She
swears that she is though. I guess, I'm just wondering how other ppl deal with
this and does it get better?

Hi Everyone,

I am looking for others in the SF Bay Area to join or begin a group for partners
of survivors of child sexual abuse and rape.  I am mostly interested in a group
for women only but am open to men as well.  My partner (the survivor)and I are
both women.

Vim

Thank you for taking the time to respond and offer that great advice.  I have
been considering talking with a colleague, or even going through some therapy
myself, to cope with this issue from a personal perspective.  You are very right
about my training either helping or hurting me, so to speak.  It's frequently a
difficult position for me.  Thanks again!




________________________________
From: simonshek_2000 <simonshek_2000@...>
To: positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 5:06:25 PM
Subject: [POS Re: struggling

 
The training you have as a social worker will either work tremendously for you,
by knowing to keep a professional distance, or against you, because you have
some inclination how to help her, yet also remain involved on a personal level.
Because of this, your situation is a bit different from many of the posts here.
Believe it or not, you may consider getting some advice on the side from a
collegue for your own well being to better understand the best approach to this.
Ultimately, you also know that healing and the survivor's choice and time to
heal is her journey. Who she takes along for the ride and who can handle it has
been documented by many of us here.

--- In positivepartnersofs urvivors@ yahoogroups. com, "pattersonamy67"
<pattersonamy67@ ...> wrote:
>
> I've been with my partner 14 months. She has been in therapy since November
08. She is currently undergoing EMDR for the sexual abuse trauma and its helping
but its also bringing up so many emotions for her. I beleive she also struggles
with Borderline Personality Disorder. Although I'm a licensed clinical social
worker and "understand" these things professionally, it is completely different
to be a part of it on a personal level. She is having terrible nightmares and is
talking in her sleep, like a re-inactment, of things that happened to her,
begging her abuser to stop. I just laid next to her in bed crying the other
night as I listened to her inner-4-year- old beg and plead. It was terrible!
She's so afraid I will leave her and sometimes is so needy that its almost
suffocating to me. I love her with all my heart though and so intensely hope we
can survive this. I don't want to leave her. She's an amazing woman. She told me
she was sexually abused on
  our first date. It didn't freak me out because I had dealt with it
professionally many times. But as I said, its different when its the person with
whom you're in love. Any support, advice or guidance would be so appreciated.
Thanks
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The training you have as a social worker will either work tremendously for you,
by knowing to keep a professional distance, or against you, because you have
some inclination how to help her, yet also remain involved on a personal level.
Because of this, your situation is a bit different from many of the posts here. 
Believe it or not, you may consider getting some advice on the side from a
collegue for your own well being to better understand the best approach to this.
Ultimately, you also know that healing and the survivor's choice and time to
heal is her journey.  Who she takes along for the ride and who can handle it has
been documented by many of us here.


--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "pattersonamy67"
<pattersonamy67@...> wrote:
>
> I've been with my partner 14 months.  She has been in therapy since November
08.  She is currently undergoing EMDR for the sexual abuse trauma and its
helping but its also bringing up so many emotions for her.  I beleive she also
struggles with Borderline Personality Disorder.  Although I'm a licensed
clinical social worker and "understand" these things professionally, it is
completely different to be a part of it on a personal level.  She is having
terrible nightmares and is talking in her sleep, like a re-inactment, of things
that happened to her, begging her abuser to stop.  I just laid next to her in
bed crying the other night as I listened to her inner-4-year-old beg and plead. 
It was terrible!  She's so afraid I will leave her and sometimes is so needy
that its almost suffocating to me.  I love her with all my heart though and so
intensely hope we can survive this. I don't want to leave her. She's an amazing
woman.  She told me she was sexually abused on our first date.  It didn't freak
me out because I had dealt with it professionally many times.  But as I said,
its different when its the person with whom you're in love.  Any support, advice
or guidance would be so appreciated. Thanks
>

I've been with my partner 14 months.  She has been in therapy since November 08.
She is currently undergoing EMDR for the sexual abuse trauma and its helping but
its also bringing up so many emotions for her.  I beleive she also struggles
with Borderline Personality Disorder.  Although I'm a licensed clinical social
worker and "understand" these things professionally, it is completely different
to be a part of it on a personal level.  She is having terrible nightmares and
is talking in her sleep, like a re-inactment, of things that happened to her,
begging her abuser to stop.  I just laid next to her in bed crying the other
night as I listened to her inner-4-year-old beg and plead.  It was terrible! 
She's so afraid I will leave her and sometimes is so needy that its almost
suffocating to me.  I love her with all my heart though and so intensely hope we
can survive this. I don't want to leave her. She's an amazing woman.  She told
me she was sexually abused on our first date.  It didn't freak me out because I
had dealt with it professionally many times.  But as I said, its different when
its the person with whom you're in love.  Any support, advice or guidance would
be so appreciated. Thanks

I might be willing to participate in your research.  I would love to see more
light shed on this subject.  I am new and am desperately trying to find support
and information about partners of survivors.  There is really very little
available...unfortunately...especially it seems for same gender partners. Maybe
there's no difference though as far as the experience is concerned.

-- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, Kristin Davisson
<krae583@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings positive partners,
>
> I am a doctoral candidate in clinical psychology located in Chicago,IL and
> was wondering if I might be able to pass along info about my study which
> addresses partnership/friendship with sexual assault surviviors in women. My
> dissertation is looking at the effects of sexual assault on friends/partners
> of female survivors. I am aiming to establish cause for more attention to
> the impact of widespread gender violence on a community of women, albeit
> indirectly.  More information can be made available of course including more
> information about me and the confidentiality/procedures of the study. A one
> time (about an hour) meeting is all that is required for data collection and
> this study is overseen by myself and three doctoral level psychologists.
> Data collection is in Chicago, IL. Please contact me with questions and/or
> interest.
>
> I would be happy to send more info to you and I have attached a flier with
> contact info for your review. Best of luck and best wishes,
>
> Kristin
>
> --
> Kristin Davisson, M.A.
> ISPP/Argosy University Chicago
> kdavisso@... and/or krae583@...
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Greetings positive partners,

I am a doctoral candidate in clinical psychology located in Chicago,IL and
was wondering if I might be able to pass along info about my study which
addresses partnership/friendship with sexual assault surviviors in women. My
dissertation is looking at the effects of sexual assault on friends/partners
of female survivors. I am aiming to establish cause for more attention to
the impact of widespread gender violence on a community of women, albeit
indirectly.  More information can be made available of course including more
information about me and the confidentiality/procedures of the study. A one
time (about an hour) meeting is all that is required for data collection and
this study is overseen by myself and three doctoral level psychologists.
Data collection is in Chicago, IL. Please contact me with questions and/or
interest.

I would be happy to send more info to you and I have attached a flier with
contact info for your review. Best of luck and best wishes,

Kristin

--
Kristin Davisson, M.A.
ISPP/Argosy University Chicago
kdavisso@... and/or krae583@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My husband and I have been married for 9 1/2years. I know that as a child he was
sexually abused my members in his church. When we first started dating he was
always "I love you/I never loved you". We would break up and get back together.
When we got married and had our first child it was much the same way but the
periods of happiness would last anywhere from 9months to  1 year before we would
do it all over again.We would only separate for about a month before he would
tell me he was wrong and want me to come back. He always seemed to tell me he
was unhappy when we as a family were the most happy. We went through this for
many years and I have always stuck by because I just felt sure that this isn't
what he really wanted, that he was hurting and confused and that if he just got
help that he could be that man that he kept trying to be and for almost a year
at a time was. Back in 2007 he did it again( I don't love you, I never loved
you, this isn't working, I'm not happy). I moved out of state and back in with
my parents taking our 2 children with me. He would always call and ask me how I
was doing, was i doing alright, telling me it was for the best, that I deserved
better. HE finally made the decision that he should seek treatment and started
seeing a therapist. Four months into treatment he wanted to get back together
that he had been wrong, that he had just be frustrated about little things and
just let them exploded. The kids and I moved back home. He continued going to
counseling until his therapist told him that he was better. We have been totally
happy the 4 of us, we are constantly laughing and joking, playing around, we do
stuff with the kids and we had been trying to find the time to do things just as
a couple even if its just a dinner out. Then a 1 1/2 weeks ago I started
noticing some slight changes in him right after we had a discussion about
money(not a fight or an argument just a talk). I didn't say anything to him at
the time waiting and watching. Finally last Wednesday I asked him and this is
what I got;"I don't see us being together in the future, I see myself being
alone, I am a happier person when I am alone" He told me that he has not been
happy, I told him I couldn't think of a time in that past year when I haven't
seen him happy. He tried to tell me that I wasn't happy either, and that I
deserved someone better, someone that wanted to do family things together(like
go to disney for our sons 8th birthday) he said that he liked doing stuff with
the kids and that he liked it when I did stuff with the kids but when it was all
4 of us it just annoyed him(i never even saw a hint of this). He was also very
clear that he was not leaving and that he wasn't going anywhere that he would
"try". Well hes been "trying" for over a week now and I am a complete mess
inside!!! One day i'm good, understanding, patient(I accept that he wont touch
me, kiss me or tell me that he loves me) its like living with a roommate who
shares your bed. The next day I wake up and I'm angry and hurt and confused by
the whole thing! He wont really talk to me( we surface chatter, especially in
front of the kids so they don't have to know whats going on)but he wont talk
about whats going on and after that first discussion I have not asked. I have
tried very hard make sure that I act a normal as possible, that if he wants to
laugh and talk and joke I will too but if he doesn't what to talk then I am
silent, I have not pushed him. I cannot keep doing this, his "trying" doesnt
seem like "trying" to me. He is pulling away from me and I don't see how this is
supposed to help our relationship or our marriage. How long is this supposed to
last? what am I supposed to do??? Where did my husband go who used to call me
just to tell me that he was driving by my work so that he could honk and I could
waive? Or the guy who would just drop by and bring me lunch or coffee, or just
call me cause he was making a run for work and just wanted to talk? I husband
who always greeted me at the top of the stairs when I got home and said "wheres
my kiss?" The guy who was always touching or hugging me? WHAT"S GOING
ON?????!!!!!

Interesting, Patricia,

Turns out my CSA survivor wife is reading the same book, got it from a group
she's in, must be making the rounds. She told me that in one story, "Making
Sandwiches," what the stepfather did to Sharon is what happened to her, down to
trying to escape his clutches by walking fast, and that how Sharon reacts --
turning off sexually to any man she cares about, but not to men she doesn't care
about -- was exactly how she reacted.
This came as completely new information to me, since she's told me almost
nothing about her abuse, never admitted this detail before (though I tried to
get her to talk about it countless times, maybe more than I should have -- you
all know what I'm talking about).
In any event,  this was more information that I've gotten before in all the
years we've been together.
So I look forward to reading it. She says it's on Amazon, if not in the library.

Daniel


--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia"
<dovewhispers@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Dawn -
>
> Welcome back.  I think I remember you.  I'm sorry your ex-relationship is
still so complicated.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could just turn-off our
love when we realized we were in a "bad" relationship?
>
> I haven't been participating much in the group lately either.  But I'm glad to
see you're back and I hope I can provide some support for you.  You mentioned
reading books -- I found one that helped me.  A great book on CSA.  Since we
often talk here about books that helped us, I want to pass along this. I don't
read much fiction, but I stumbled across a story in a short-story collection
that is about a CSA survivor whose marriage is on the rocks because of her
previous abuse.
>
> The book was recommended by my therapist, who often suggests readings on
themes we talk about.  Most of  the stories in the book are about various people
going through crucial transitions in their life, changing from one kind of
person to another right before your eyes.
> In the story about CSA, the woman starts recalling her earlier abuse kind of
in flashes. She freezes up sexually with her husband, and can't even think
straight, starts obsessing on things like the noises her dishwasher makes and
fears about her daughter being abused like she was.  She loves her husband but
can't relate to him sexually.
> With her marriage on the rocks, she decides to confront her mother, since she
blames her for what not protecting her from what her step-father did.  I won't
want to give away the end, but the last scene had me in tears!  Since she does
something I've thought of doing, I actually felt cleansed after I read it.
>
> The book is called "Where Things Are When You Lose Them" by Martin Golan - the
idea is all the stages of loss in our lives. like "losing" the abuse in your
past.
>
> I hope it helps you find some peace.  It helped me.
>
> Be strong girlfriend - be strong!
> Pat
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn" <dawgdawn@> wrote:
> >
> > I joined this group briefly in July/August of 2008. I left when my partner
and I split up and it looked like she wasn't coming back. Well, she's back in my
life, but we are just friends.
> >
> > Of course, it's more complicated than that. For all intents and purposes, we
are in a casual relationship--A friends with benefits situation. I thought I
could handle this. Some days I can. What I have trouble with is dealing with the
distant times that follow the intimate times that we have.
> >
> > We recently spent 5 days together on vacation and it was great. It felt
almost like we were a couple again. But I got too comfortable with that because
when we got home, it was like I didn't exist again. She was busy with all her
other friends and didn't want me around.
> >
> > I wish I could move on but I still love her and still want her to love me
back. And I find myself waiting for her call again and missing her and feeling
depressed when I don't hear from her.
> >
> > I'm trying to read the books and live my life as I've read about so many
others doing in this situation, but most of the times I feel like I should be
getting a medal for putting up with this. then I have to wonder why I keep doing
this to myself.
> >
> > Anyway. I'm back. Not sure for how long, but would appreciate any support.
> >
> > Dawn
> >
>

Hi, my name is Joanna. I am in a relationship with an incest survivor. I too am
a child sex abuse survivor. We have been together for 11 months today and
believe we have found our perfect matches. Our experiences have posed some
serious issues, however, in how to understand one another. I feel like I am
always forced to be the rock of the relaionship and have not been able to find a
way to meet my own needs, not as a survivor, but as a woman in love. It is very
important to me to be there for her, but I find I'm having to push myself aside
time and again. Our communication works in cycles. For a time, there is openess,
honesty and care. Then, for what seems to be an extensive time, things just get
shut off. Feelings become more of a burden and openess a curse. During these
times I find myself becomming emotionless and detatched, alomost apathetic. I
know thoughout my being that I love her dearly, but it seems to be almost
inconvenient to her happiness. I'm not exactly sure what kind of advice I'm
looking for. I wish maybe there were exercises in communication that we could do
to work on keeping lines open. I believe that this could be the door through
which we'll walk to start addressing the compounded issues of our relationship,
sex, money, intimacy...ect. If anyone has any guidance,about being a partner of
a survivor, it would be greatly appreciated. Also, I must ask if anyone here is
a survivor themselves in a relationship with another survivor, there doesn't
seem to be too many resources available for this particular situation. Thank
you, and God Bless.
-Joanna

I'm sorry Dawn to hear that.  I think I would like to hear about how some of
these couples work out - but I think, at least on this list, it is rare.



I had a girlfriend/partner too that was a "come closer - go away" relationship. 
I was really in love with her and grieved for a long time when it was over - and
for us it was over when I was no longer willing to be a part of it.  Now it's
been about 2 years and I stopped even talking to her after a hateful email she
sent me, about 10 months ago.  I keep the email because it does help me remember
some of the dark side of the relationship.  Now, when I look back and still
desire her (or the part of her that I loved) I understand that unless massive
changes occured that my relationship with her would cycle back to the hurtful
cycle it became.



Good luck -  I did this all in my own time and that worked for me.



Alisa



To: positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com
From: dawgdawn@...
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 13:41:36 +0000
Subject: [POS Re: Remember me?







Thanks for the suggestion. Sadly, it seems I've joined again and probably don't
need to be here. Not right now anyway. I found out yesterday that she is dating
someone else now and will likely repeat the pattern with this new person. It's
only a matter of time.

I won't unsubscribe from the list since I suspect she will be back at some
point. Hopefully I'll be in a better place and not sitting around waiting for
her to come back.

Dawn

--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia"
<dovewhispers@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Dawn -
>
> Welcome back. I think I remember you. I'm sorry your ex-relationship is still
so complicated. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could just turn-off our love when
we realized we were in a "bad" relationship?
>
> I haven't been participating much in the group lately either. But I'm glad to
see you're back and I hope I can provide some support for you. You mentioned
reading books -- I found one that helped me. A great book on CSA. Since we often
talk here about books that helped us, I want to pass along this. I don't read
much fiction, but I stumbled across a story in a short-story collection that is
about a CSA survivor whose marriage is on the rocks because of her previous
abuse.
>
> The book was recommended by my therapist, who often suggests readings on
themes we talk about. Most of the stories in the book are about various people
going through crucial transitions in their life, changing from one kind of
person to another right before your eyes.
> In the story about CSA, the woman starts recalling her earlier abuse kind of
in flashes. She freezes up sexually with her husband, and can't even think
straight, starts obsessing on things like the noises her dishwasher makes and
fears about her daughter being abused like she was. She loves her husband but
can't relate to him sexually.
> With her marriage on the rocks, she decides to confront her mother, since she
blames her for what not protecting her from what her step-father did. I won't
want to give away the end, but the last scene had me in tears! Since she does
something I've thought of doing, I actually felt cleansed after I read it.
>
> The book is called "Where Things Are When You Lose Them" by Martin Golan - the
idea is all the stages of loss in our lives. like "losing" the abuse in your
past.
>
> I hope it helps you find some peace. It helped me.
>
> Be strong girlfriend - be strong!
> Pat
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn" <dawgdawn@> wrote:
> >
> > I joined this group briefly in July/August of 2008. I left when my partner
and I split up and it looked like she wasn't coming back. Well, she's back in my
life, but we are just friends.
> >
> > Of course, it's more complicated than that. For all intents and purposes, we
are in a casual relationship--A friends with benefits situation. I thought I
could handle this. Some days I can. What I have trouble with is dealing with the
distant times that follow the intimate times that we have.
> >
> > We recently spent 5 days together on vacation and it was great. It felt
almost like we were a couple again. But I got too comfortable with that because
when we got home, it was like I didn't exist again. She was busy with all her
other friends and didn't want me around.
> >
> > I wish I could move on but I still love her and still want her to love me
back. And I find myself waiting for her call again and missing her and feeling
depressed when I don't hear from her.
> >
> > I'm trying to read the books and live my life as I've read about so many
others doing in this situation, but most of the times I feel like I should be
getting a medal for putting up with this. then I have to wonder why I keep doing
this to myself.
> >
> > Anyway. I'm back. Not sure for how long, but would appreciate any support.
> >
> > Dawn
> >
>










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the suggestion. Sadly, it seems I've joined again and probably don't
need to be here. Not right now anyway. I found out yesterday that she is dating
someone else now and will likely repeat the pattern with this new person. It's
only a matter of time.

I won't unsubscribe from the list since I suspect she will be back at some
point. Hopefully I'll be in a better place and not sitting around waiting for
her to come back.


Dawn




--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia"
<dovewhispers@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Dawn -
>
> Welcome back.  I think I remember you.  I'm sorry your ex-relationship is
still so complicated.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could just turn-off our
love when we realized we were in a "bad" relationship?
>
> I haven't been participating much in the group lately either.  But I'm glad to
see you're back and I hope I can provide some support for you.  You mentioned
reading books -- I found one that helped me.  A great book on CSA.  Since we
often talk here about books that helped us, I want to pass along this. I don't
read much fiction, but I stumbled across a story in a short-story collection
that is about a CSA survivor whose marriage is on the rocks because of her
previous abuse.
>
> The book was recommended by my therapist, who often suggests readings on
themes we talk about.  Most of  the stories in the book are about various people
going through crucial transitions in their life, changing from one kind of
person to another right before your eyes.
> In the story about CSA, the woman starts recalling her earlier abuse kind of
in flashes. She freezes up sexually with her husband, and can't even think
straight, starts obsessing on things like the noises her dishwasher makes and
fears about her daughter being abused like she was.  She loves her husband but
can't relate to him sexually.
> With her marriage on the rocks, she decides to confront her mother, since she
blames her for what not protecting her from what her step-father did.  I won't
want to give away the end, but the last scene had me in tears!  Since she does
something I've thought of doing, I actually felt cleansed after I read it.
>
> The book is called "Where Things Are When You Lose Them" by Martin Golan - the
idea is all the stages of loss in our lives. like "losing" the abuse in your
past.
>
> I hope it helps you find some peace.  It helped me.
>
> Be strong girlfriend - be strong!
> Pat
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn" <dawgdawn@> wrote:
> >
> > I joined this group briefly in July/August of 2008. I left when my partner
and I split up and it looked like she wasn't coming back. Well, she's back in my
life, but we are just friends.
> >
> > Of course, it's more complicated than that. For all intents and purposes, we
are in a casual relationship--A friends with benefits situation. I thought I
could handle this. Some days I can. What I have trouble with is dealing with the
distant times that follow the intimate times that we have.
> >
> > We recently spent 5 days together on vacation and it was great. It felt
almost like we were a couple again. But I got too comfortable with that because
when we got home, it was like I didn't exist again. She was busy with all her
other friends and didn't want me around.
> >
> > I wish I could move on but I still love her and still want her to love me
back. And I find myself waiting for her call again and missing her and feeling
depressed when I don't hear from her.
> >
> > I'm trying to read the books and live my life as I've read about so many
others doing in this situation, but most of the times I feel like I should be
getting a medal for putting up with this. then I have to wonder why I keep doing
this to myself.
> >
> > Anyway. I'm back. Not sure for how long, but would appreciate any support.
> >
> > Dawn
> >
>

Hi Dawn -

Welcome back.  I think I remember you.  I'm sorry your ex-relationship is still
so complicated.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could just turn-off our love
when we realized we were in a "bad" relationship?

I haven't been participating much in the group lately either.  But I'm glad to
see you're back and I hope I can provide some support for you.  You mentioned
reading books -- I found one that helped me.  A great book on CSA.  Since we
often talk here about books that helped us, I want to pass along this. I don't
read much fiction, but I stumbled across a story in a short-story collection
that is about a CSA survivor whose marriage is on the rocks because of her
previous abuse.

The book was recommended by my therapist, who often suggests readings on themes
we talk about.  Most of  the stories in the book are about various people going
through crucial transitions in their life, changing from one kind of person to
another right before your eyes.
In the story about CSA, the woman starts recalling her earlier abuse kind of in
flashes. She freezes up sexually with her husband, and can't even think
straight, starts obsessing on things like the noises her dishwasher makes and
fears about her daughter being abused like she was.  She loves her husband but
can't relate to him sexually.
With her marriage on the rocks, she decides to confront her mother, since she
blames her for what not protecting her from what her step-father did.  I won't
want to give away the end, but the last scene had me in tears!  Since she does
something I've thought of doing, I actually felt cleansed after I read it.

The book is called "Where Things Are When You Lose Them" by Martin Golan - the
idea is all the stages of loss in our lives. like "losing" the abuse in your
past.

I hope it helps you find some peace.  It helped me.

Be strong girlfriend - be strong!
Pat





--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn" <dawgdawn@...> wrote:
>
> I joined this group briefly in July/August of 2008. I left when my partner and
I split up and it looked like she wasn't coming back. Well, she's back in my
life, but we are just friends.
>
> Of course, it's more complicated than that. For all intents and purposes, we
are in a casual relationship--A friends with benefits situation. I thought I
could handle this. Some days I can. What I have trouble with is dealing with the
distant times that follow the intimate times that we have.
>
> We recently spent 5 days together on vacation and it was great. It felt almost
like we were a couple again. But I got too comfortable with that because when we
got home, it was like I didn't exist again. She was busy with all her other
friends and didn't want me around.
>
> I wish I could move on but I still love her and still want her to love me
back. And I find myself waiting for her call again and missing her and feeling
depressed when I don't hear from her.
>
> I'm trying to read the books and live my life as I've read about so many
others doing in this situation, but most of the times I feel like I should be
getting a medal for putting up with this. then I have to wonder why I keep doing
this to myself.
>
> Anyway. I'm back. Not sure for how long, but would appreciate any support.
>
> Dawn
>

I joined this group briefly in July/August of 2008. I left when my partner and I
split up and it looked like she wasn't coming back. Well, she's back in my life,
but we are just friends.

Of course, it's more complicated than that. For all intents and purposes, we are
in a casual relationship--A friends with benefits situation. I thought I could
handle this. Some days I can. What I have trouble with is dealing with the
distant times that follow the intimate times that we have.

We recently spent 5 days together on vacation and it was great. It felt almost
like we were a couple again. But I got too comfortable with that because when we
got home, it was like I didn't exist again. She was busy with all her other
friends and didn't want me around.

I wish I could move on but I still love her and still want her to love me back.
And I find myself waiting for her call again and missing her and feeling
depressed when I don't hear from her.

I'm trying to read the books and live my life as I've read about so many others
doing in this situation, but most of the times I feel like I should be getting a
medal for putting up with this. then I have to wonder why I keep doing this to
myself.

Anyway. I'm back. Not sure for how long, but would appreciate any support.

Dawn

What you describe in many ways are very classic symptoms other partners here
have had to deal with; yet one could also say a lot of people and relationships
go through similar challenges without the factor of past abuse.

If your plans include marriage and even if you are a professional therapist, I
would place limits as to what you can do in terms of bringing/coaxing emotions
out of her.  Or, if helpful at some point in your marriage you can also attend
sessions to see how you can help, which is in addition to her getting individual
counsel.

Keep in mind, one person's idea of love and caring does always mean the same to
another, including whether it is something positive or wanted.

You are still responsible for and setting limits to your own actions; regardless
of what your partner asks you to be involved in.


--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "Erika" <femmband77@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am brand new to this group, but I am searching for someone who can help me
understand what me and my partner are going through.  We are both women in a
same sex relationship.  We have been together for almost 3 years and plan to
marry in August.  We are very happy together and we enjoy each other so much. 
She has always been very honest about her past and the abuse from her step
father.  And we speak openly about what happened.  I believe she received very
little therapy at the time of discovery, but she did have some.  However, the
effects of the abuse surface in our relationship often.  It usually comes up
when there is a conflict of some sort.
>
> Often she will shut down during conflict and say she is "fine."  I have
learned to hate this response.  I know she is not fine and she knows it. 
However, I feel like she wants me to read her mind and she wants me to know
exactly what I should do.  We will spend days or hours of me comforting her and
coaxing her feelings out of her.  It can be very painful and she can become
angry and mean towards me during the process.
>
> She will go through intense emotions where she feels I don't really love her
and that she isn't meeting my needs sexually.  But, she does.  I think she is
amazing and I love her more than anything.  I tell her this, yet she is
unconvinced.  She is constantly analyzing my behaviour trying to find places
where I have been unfaithful.  She accuses me of having thoughts about other
women, even though that is not going on with me at all.  Or she will accuse me
of being obsessed with other women's body parts.  In these situations, I find
myself over analyzing my own behaviour, trying to see things from her
perspective.  I end up feeling very confused and my self esteem plummets.  Maybe
I am doing these things??  I don't think that I feel this way . . . But maybe
she is right??  I end up feeling like I have done something wrong and often feel
that I have particpated in something perverted.  It is painful and horrible.  I
hate that she believes these things about me and I know that they are not who I
am.  But, it is so confusing for me and I feel very rejected in the process of
it all.
>
> I want to find ways to communicate with her so that she believes me and knows
that I love her and only her.
>
> Has anyone gone through these types of mis-communications and conflicts??  I
would love some advice on how you worked through it with your partners/spouses.
>
> Thank you for any help or advice.
>

Hello,

I am brand new to this group, but I am searching for someone who can help me
understand what me and my partner are going through.  We are both women in a
same sex relationship.  We have been together for almost 3 years and plan to
marry in August.  We are very happy together and we enjoy each other so much. 
She has always been very honest about her past and the abuse from her step
father.  And we speak openly about what happened.  I believe she received very
little therapy at the time of discovery, but she did have some.  However, the
effects of the abuse surface in our relationship often.  It usually comes up
when there is a conflict of some sort.

Often she will shut down during conflict and say she is "fine."  I have learned
to hate this response.  I know she is not fine and she knows it.  However, I
feel like she wants me to read her mind and she wants me to know exactly what I
should do.  We will spend days or hours of me comforting her and coaxing her
feelings out of her.  It can be very painful and she can become angry and mean
towards me during the process.

She will go through intense emotions where she feels I don't really love her and
that she isn't meeting my needs sexually.  But, she does.  I think she is
amazing and I love her more than anything.  I tell her this, yet she is
unconvinced.  She is constantly analyzing my behaviour trying to find places
where I have been unfaithful.  She accuses me of having thoughts about other
women, even though that is not going on with me at all.  Or she will accuse me
of being obsessed with other women's body parts.  In these situations, I find
myself over analyzing my own behaviour, trying to see things from her
perspective.  I end up feeling very confused and my self esteem plummets.  Maybe
I am doing these things??  I don't think that I feel this way . . . But maybe
she is right??  I end up feeling like I have done something wrong and often feel
that I have particpated in something perverted.  It is painful and horrible.  I
hate that she believes these things about me and I know that they are not who I
am.  But, it is so confusing for me and I feel very rejected in the process of
it all.

I want to find ways to communicate with her so that she believes me and knows
that I love her and only her.

Has anyone gone through these types of mis-communications and conflicts??  I
would love some advice on how you worked through it with your partners/spouses.

Thank you for any help or advice.

Hello

I am sorry about your situation.  Your friend's strong reaction /trigger may
indicate a good time to seek some professional counselling, even if it is just
to address how he responds to triggers and bad memories.

But it is up to him.

Although everything tells you there is help and he can be helped, it is always
up to him to know when to start and seek help.   In the same way, I would not
recommend you tell his family about this unless he expressly tell you he needs
you to do this for him.   Unless there is some immediate consequence in not
taking action (life/death); providing/pushing help on a survivor will generally
be seen as more of a hinderance/nuisance anything.   These feelings are new to
you; not to them.  Because of this, you may want to look at getting some
counselling for yourself, in the event you may be suffering from secondary
trauma.

Your post also does not indicate how old you both are.   That, sometimes is also
a factor when it comes to relationships and healing.

Take care.





--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "desbabestr"
<desbabestr@...> wrote:
>
> my boyfriend told me in the beginning of our relationship that he had been
raped as a child when he attended summer camp.  At the time I really thought
that he was okay with it, or had come to terms with it, but the last few months
he has began to think about it on the constant.  The other night when he went to
the store he saw a man who looked like his rapist and he completely lost his
mind.  It got so bad he went to bar and had 6 long island ice teas and who knows
what else, and then he continued to drive home drunk in the process.  When he
got into bed he broke down, and I had to convince him that the man who raped him
as child was in jail and could never hurt him again (although he got away with
it)
>
> I am trying my best to support him because his family has no idea that it ever
happened, and he has no desire to tell them.  I try to tell him that he has
every right to feel violated, and that it is not his fault, he was just a little
kid, he had no idea what to think.
>
> I have no idea where else to turn.  He does not want to see a therapist or try
support groups, and this is starting to impact him physically.  Should I let his
mother know what happened or will that make it worse?  How do I get him on the
road to recovery? He is not the person I fell in love with anymore, how do I
help?
>

I am so sorry for you and him. but I will only speak to you. I would first
suggest that you get a cople of good books and read up quickly. There are a
number of good ones for partners of survivors. read two at least, I would
suggest that you not let him know at this point. That is my opinion, not
professional advise.
Second, you may want to get some profeesional help for you. This stuff is a mine
field emotionally and potentially physically.

I would say that if he ever, ever, ever, ever, hurts you that you sheould leave
and never go back, never. That is again just my own stupid opinion. but having
you direcly affected by this abuse only serves to spread this cancer and truly
and deeply hurt you as he has been hurt. Remember "Hurt me once shame on you.
hurt me twice, shame on me!" While this is not to blame the survivor of repeated
abuse. it is a good caution for those who are at risk of the hazard not to
rationalize exposure to a second inexcusable event.

You are important and beautiful. Never forget that. You deserve love and to be
cherished.

unfortunately, anything you do actively has the potential of triggering him. You
cannot save him. You can listen and watch his pain, and in the lucid moments ou
can ask what you can do to help him, what does he want. Give him his control
back. but only of himself. Be sure not to let him control you.

Finally, ask yourself long and hard if you are able to deal with this. It is no
falure or betrayal to know your limits and stick to them. Protect yourself. be
yourself. if you can weather the storm and see the reward in the end, and are
strong not to get sucked down into the abyss, then you might feel ok staying,
but have no illusions, it will not be easy or fun. You probably will have many
nights of tears. I know though, that there are moments of joy, heightened by the
sense of betrayal that you may be able to walk through with him.

BE sure to focus on things you like to help you find your happiness. you cannot
be much good if you are falling apart because of his pain. it will only induce
more guilt in him.

I wish you the best and you can always contact me if you want to chat further.

Take care of yourself.

--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "desbabestr"
<desbabestr@...> wrote:
>
> my boyfriend told me in the beginning of our relationship that he had been
raped as a child when he attended summer camp.  At the time I really thought
that he was okay with it, or had come to terms with it, but the last few months
he has began to think about it on the constant.  The other night when he went to
the store he saw a man who looked like his rapist and he completely lost his
mind.  It got so bad he went to bar and had 6 long island ice teas and who knows
what else, and then he continued to drive home drunk in the process.  When he
got into bed he broke down, and I had to convince him that the man who raped him
as child was in jail and could never hurt him again (although he got away with
it)
>
> I am trying my best to support him because his family has no idea that it ever
happened, and he has no desire to tell them.  I try to tell him that he has
every right to feel violated, and that it is not his fault, he was just a little
kid, he had no idea what to think.
>
> I have no idea where else to turn.  He does not want to see a therapist or try
support groups, and this is starting to impact him physically.  Should I let his
mother know what happened or will that make it worse?  How do I get him on the
road to recovery? He is not the person I fell in love with anymore, how do I
help?
>

My brother, you have come a long way to focus on yourself and get your mind
right about who you are. I too, figured out how to eat right and lost 40 lbs in
the past 6 months.

As for your wife, I would recommend that you focus on you and the kids. What is
best for them and you. As much as you love her, you are also very clear in your
writing that your growth may also be a very deep trigger for her own feelings of
inadequacy and inability to be "good". Such a terrible cycle, if you pursue, I
would fear she retreats farther. That was true for my marriage and did not get
better when I stopped pursuing. she just stayed distant.

If her kids and you truly trust each other and they understand the value of your
stability and love, then focus on them. Separation is my next step only to
provide my wife with insurance coverage for a time.

For me, I learned that although I love my wife dearly, as the mother of my
children and for what we had at one point, I also know that I may be standing in
her way. Using a crutch too long is not healthy and can impair recovery. I feel
this is true for my relationship as well. So if I love her and staying close is
harmful, then I should be gone. very simple. Painful, but simple.

It also opens a whole new world. There are wonderful women who seek a good man,
though I like you sem to attract CSA survivors. I don't quite know why. my next
internal journey.

It is at this point when I think of the old addage: like a little butterfly, if
you love it let it go. if it will return, great, if not, you have known that
beauty. hold too tight will crush it.

I know how you feel writing these things, long and winding, the fatigue and
overthinking for so long takes its toll.

Learn to medidate. it seems to help me. a bit. make it simple, not religeous or
spiritua, just learn to relax and breath for 15 minutes a day.

Take care and write if you want to chat.


--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "s_has" <s_has@...> wrote:
>
>
> I don't even know where to begin.  I'm married to (well now
> separated) a survivor.  When we met I told her how I usually attracted
> women that had had some form of abuse in their lives (long story about
> me that makes that no coincidence).   She said she had never been
> sexually abused, truth be told she just didn't realize how much she
> was abused.
>
> I embarked on a marriage with a wonderful woman who has just been abused
> in so many ways; including emotionally abused by me.   Our journey is a
> long story that I feel compelled to share because I'm lost with
> where to go next.
>
> 7 years ago I met my wife and fell in love.  She has 5 children (4 of
> them I adopted).  All 5 live with us (or me at the moment).  As our
> marriage started we hit some rocky times.  I was very insecure and
> needed constant validation of her love (this is where the emotional
> abuse started).  I didn't realize until now that I had some serious
> abandonment issues from my childhood and it led me to destructive
> behaviors.  I had an eating disorder most of my adult life and in my
> marriage it reached its worse stage.  I was an emotional eater and
> overly concerned about appearance so I would purge after I binged.  I
> thought I was in control and used this as my way to cope from the ups
> and downs from my wife.  She would be emotionally and physically
> available one day and then gone the next.  It always felt like she was
> having an affair.  It fueled my issues and sent me deeper into my
> problems.  As I went deeper into my problems it made life harder on her.
> I would volunteer how my needs were not being met in the marriage and
> she beat herself up over it for years.  I'm trying to work with her
> in counseling to acknowledge what I put her through but she's been
> resisting me, I can appreciate why with what I know about her past.
>
> About 6 months ago I admitted to my wife my challenges with my eating
> disorder and sought professional help.  I'm proud to say I've
> entered into a healthy relationship with food and I now realize how to
> put my needs ahead of others so I don't push down my pain.  I've
> revisited my past and confronted my parents with their role in my
> destructive behaviors.  I'm feeling really good about myself and my
> future journey as it relates to healthy coping.
>
> The challenge in my relationship with my wife.  Several years ago she
> was displaying her own eating disorders (yep 2 in the same house!).  She
> got to a point that she was under 100lbs and I worried she was going to
> die.  I did somewhat of an intervention and she hates me for it.  I had
> justified in my head that she needed help and I had control of my own.
> It was very hypocritical and I don't know if she'll ever forgive
> me.  To make matters worse she had to uncover so many things she
> wasn't ready to go through.  She has childhood flashbacks of abuse,
> some with teachers, some with another little girl, and a strange memory
> of her dad, given her relationship with her parents I'm certain one
> of them or both of them violated her.  To top all this off she was in a
> couple physically abusive relationships and was raped.  It's all so
> much for her to handle so she scratched the surface.  She got her eating
> under control and quit therapy.
>
> We moved a year ago because I got a new job.  During the transition I
> had to relocate earlier than her and she sank deep into her eating
> disorder.  When we reconnected it hasn't been the same.  She is
> running faster and faster.  She got a job in a bar and has been making
> tremendously unhealthy friendships.  She wants to meet as many men and
> women as possible and has been slowly abandoning all of us.  She said
> the pressure is too high and she doesn't know if she wants to be
> married to me any longer.
>
> I know she's trying to numb herself out from the pain and that she
> is going through a destructive phase.  I worry that I won't be able
> to handle some of the things she's probably doing.  I know her
> eating disorder is in full control and I know she's been getting
> very sexually talkative with her male and female friends.  I don't
> know if she's gone any further but I know when she's in her own
> place she'll probably lean on this as a way to cope.
>
> I know this post is somewhat all over the map but I wanted to provide a
> little background and perhaps I've entered journaling mode.
> Here's my big struggle.  I'm healthy know and confident I will
> remain healthy.  This woman is an incredible person and I want to
> separate the desire to save her from what I need to do to take care of
> our kids and myself.  I don't want to shut down but I know she has a
> LOT to go through and she doesn't trust me enough right now to make
> our relationship safe, I don't fault her for this.  I worry that
> instead of her going off to start healing it's only going to get
> worse.  She's going to drink and party more and find herself in so
> many unhealthy settings.  She deserves so much better than this life.  I
> can't save her but I don't want to give up on her.  She says she
> needs a year to figure things out and signed a 1 year lease.  At this
> point I don't even know what to ask of her or myself.  Still
> overwhelmed that it's all taking this twist.  Seems the healthier I
> have become the more she doesn't want to be around me.
>

Well I am new to the forum too, but not to CSA. 22 years of marriage and several
kids later, I am staring divorce in the face. My choice not hers. I will give a
glimpse of my journey only as one path, not your path. Each is different, but
all are difficult and perhaps rewarding.

I knew she had been abused before she did. while dating, she would not hold my
hand or be close, but did want to have sex. odd I thought. I was very sensitive,
like you, but unlike you, went for it since she denied any past issues of abuse
when I inquired (like a ham handed dummy).

Her memories came out of the safety of our relationship, like so many others, 10
years ago. Much depression and therapy later, there is no real change. all
intimacy lost, no good path for me but to listen and attend. Your gal, it seems
at least has awareness now.

That is a great hope. Your path may be easier, but patience is key. There are a
couple of things you may consider, think long and hard and do a lot of reading
before you act on any of these things, but who knows they may help.

Listen and do not offer solutions: if she tells you her stories and pain. look
at her and me with her. hold her hand if she wants, but no more. It is her
journey.

Do think of talking about sex: you have a great opportunity to begin a long,
complex and arduous dialogue. but CSA is, in many ways abouth the loss of her
control over her own body and choices. Talking through her desires and fears
without acting, could help her see you as an ally, not a threat. it may give her
a sence of her own control.
At some point, and this is only my thinking, not validated by any smart people,
but I beleive that Tantric practices offer a good path for earning trust in
intimacy. I should say though that the journey will be much longer and
protracted than normal. I would expect a year where the normal would be weeks or
months to begin real sexual activity. Be ready to have lots of set backs, but
the basis of tantric practices is trust, breathing and learning to trust and be
trusted with your partner. 5,000 years of helping arranged marriages work cant
be all bad. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS stop when she says stop, but you seem to
already get that. I does not get easier.

Think twice before you speak take a breath or act, take two breaths and then
realize that saying less is more. Share your feelings if she wants, but watch
her reaction to saying too much.

God this is complicated. Really think twice before you jump into a relationship
like this. There are so many beautiful and intelligent women who were not
abused. Ask yourself why her. why you. Will you look back at 20 years of
marriage and regret? I do not regret my kids, but I always wonder about what
else I have given up, hence my choice for divorce. I cannot deny my needs any
longer. Have I done her a disservice by giveing her 20 years and leaving now? I
cannot say, but I am tired and hungry for honest emotional and sexual intimacy.
Simplicity.

The length of your email tells me you are very sensitive and caring. You think
alot, rationalize things. Be very clear about YOUR future. if you make the
choice to try life with this woman, it could work out very well, as good as you
might imagine, but also worse than you can imagine, betrayed and drained. SET
your own limits and be clear about them with her. Not as threat, but as your
defense for yourself. You are valuable, you are giving, but you are not
limitless.

God bless you for trying and being one of the good guys. be careful you do not
change who you are because of how you feel around her. you will want to
compromise. some is ok, but do not lose yourself. notice my email address,
anonymous, but telling. this is now my emotional life. Pain management...my
pain.

email me any time if you want to chat one on one. I know i ramble sometimes, but
fatigue takes its toll.

Best wishes, my brother.

--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "tbgomez14" <tbgomez14@...>
wrote:
>
> Greetings everyone. Not only am I new to this group, but I'm new to a
> relationship with a survivor.  We've been seeing each other for
> around four months, decided to make things more serious over a month
> ago. All the warning signs have been there, I had my suspicions, but
> would never dare ask someone something so personal at this point.
> She just recently opened up about the CSA on her own volition.  Of
> course, I was distraught and angry at the perpetrator, and still am
> to some degree.  I appreciate the honesty and the trust she placed in
> me this early in the relationship.  I wouldn't be here if I didn't
> care about her.  I don't think she would have told me if she didn't
> care about me.  There are obvious reasons to be concerned, though.
> The story goes something like this:
>
> I'm a young man (mid-20s) finishing up a graduate degree. She's one
> year younger, about to begin a graduate program (It will come as no
> surprise to many of you that she is pursuing psychology).  The
> attraction was immediate. She is strikingly beautiful, educated,
> sweet and respectful, and we enjoy so many of the same activities and
> entertainments.  Though, there was always also an element of sadness
> within her.  She felt the need to consistently remind me when we
> first started seeing each other that she was not a "hoe," and that if
> I was just in this to "get some," then I'd better look elsewhere.  I
> assured her that was not the case, because it wasn't and I never made
> inappropriate advances or suggestions.  I told her I would always
> show her proper respect -- that I'm trying to find a woman that I can
> be faithful to for the rest of my life, not for just a few nights.
>
> She first told me that the aversion to intimacy was because of a
> combination of religous values, "overthinking" things, and an
> emotionally and verbally abusive ex whom she loved and trusted to
> share some intimacy with (everything but intercourse). It was a
> codependent relationship that destroyed her self-esteem, but that she
> was strong enough to break herself from eventually.  My respect for
> her grew.  A broken heart is the reason, she said, but that if I am
> patient for her we can get through it together.  I believe her, this
> ex did not help matters at all.  Still, something wasn't quite adding
> up in my mind.
>
> The rollercoaster was in perpetual full-on-mode.  We would kiss, hold
> hands, have an amazing time together one night (some of the best
> dates you can imagine) -- and then the next night she would be
> totally withdrawn, not even a hug to say goodbye.  She would discuss
> future plans for dates and possibilities one day, and then the next
> day be completely aloof and uninterested.  I brought up the fact that
> I felt a little confused by her actions, she would tell me if I
> didn't think she was worth waiting for, to tell her and she would
> leave (classic guilt trip).  I noticed that in many cases, she wanted
> a little alcohol before being affectionate in any way.  That is
> disconcerting to say the least.
>
> The affection culminated one night into something more special and
> she asked me for intercourse. I deeply wanted to, I have the
> passionate desire for her and have had sex with women in much earlier
> relationship stages.  However, she had told me before that the only
> time she had intercourse was with a friend a few years ago, whom she
> promptly told to stop in the middle of the act, and never spoke to
> again.  I knew that she wasn't actually ready and told her we should
> wait, that we would get there later on in the relationship. She
> persisted, I refused.  One of the best (and hardest) decisions I've
> ever made.  She confessed later that very night, shaking in my arms,
> that she wasn't even sure she was ready for the things we HAD done
> and thanked me for not going further. I was crushed and confused, but
> I knew I did the right thing, though certainly not the easy thing.
>
> She could sense my confusion and concern as we saw each other in the
> past few weeks, but she insisted it was just because of her ex trying
> to contact her again, she'd be fine with time.  A couple of nights
> ago she told me that the uncle who raised her, the closest thing
> she'd known to a father, committed CSA.  Not just on her, but her
> siblings as well.  I was devastated to actually hear it, although I
> suspected it.  I told her she never deserved anything like that and
> that I was so sorry.  She acted like the CSA didn't matter, that it
> was in the past.  She's never been to therapy for it, although as a
> psych major she must know the damage is real and long lasting.
>
> All the pieces are starting to fall into place.  The root of the
> problem isn't this ex boyfriend, it's her example of a man growing up
> who betrayed her trust, betrayed her body.  Certainly it played a
> part in how she got into her unhealthy ex relationship.  I
> immediately hit the library to do research on CSA, I want to
> undersand, even though I've never been through anything like it.  I
> can't talk about this with my friends or family without feeling like
> I'm betraying her privacy-her right to keep this as secretive as she
> wants.  I can't continue to talk to her about it because it dredges
> up bad memories and we're still in a stage in our relationship where
> it should be about having fun together to find out if we belong
> together, not conducting psychotherapy sessions.
>
> That's why i'm here. We aren't in love with each other yet, although
> we have committed ourselves to finding out where this goes.  I know
> that I could find another partner, but I feel that she's not one to
> give up on -- a special person, even with her problems (which we all
> have of some kind).  I grew up in a family where the right kind of
> love was shown to us as kids, where my parents were affectionate
> toward each other and properly so with us.  I want to be able to have
> a healthy and faithful physical relationship with the woman I end up
> with.
>
> She says she's capable in time.  She has been more affectionate than
> in the beginning, but there always seems to be moments of
> regression.  I feel like I'm ready to take a leap of faith, even
> though my rational mind is throwing up caution flags at every turn.
> I don't want to leave her now.  I also don't have any delusions of
> being her savior, but I can be there for her when times are tough,
> and hope that the good times outweigh the difficult.  Maybe this
> group can help?  Should I gain more experience in this, maybe I can
> return the favor one day.
>
> I realize that many of you have been partners for long periods of
> time and in much more serious relationship stages.  I have only
> caught a brief glimpse of that world, and I have enormous respect for
> all of you.  Thank you for hearing me out and for any advice or
> comments you have.
>
> -Gomez
>

my boyfriend told me in the beginning of our relationship that he had been raped
as a child when he attended summer camp.  At the time I really thought that he
was okay with it, or had come to terms with it, but the last few months he has
began to think about it on the constant.  The other night when he went to the
store he saw a man who looked like his rapist and he completely lost his mind. 
It got so bad he went to bar and had 6 long island ice teas and who knows what
else, and then he continued to drive home drunk in the process.  When he got
into bed he broke down, and I had to convince him that the man who raped him as
child was in jail and could never hurt him again (although he got away with it)

I am trying my best to support him because his family has no idea that it ever
happened, and he has no desire to tell them.  I try to tell him that he has
every right to feel violated, and that it is not his fault, he was just a little
kid, he had no idea what to think.

I have no idea where else to turn.  He does not want to see a therapist or try
support groups, and this is starting to impact him physically.  Should I let his
mother know what happened or will that make it worse?  How do I get him on the
road to recovery? He is not the person I fell in love with anymore, how do I
help?

Phil,

Sadly I haven't even found one for myself.  I will tell you an excellent
book (and at the end they have some contacts for support groups).  The
book is called "survivors and partners" by Paul A Hansen and I would
classify this as a must read.  It helped give me a new perspective that
I'm not alone and that I need to expect some of the feelings I have if I
choose to stay with my wife through this chapter.  Good luck finding
something that provides the format you're in search of.  Sorry I
couldn't help more.

Steve




--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "the_unagog"
<unagog@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Group,
> I would like to introduce myself. I am new (1st day) and I am glad I
> found you. There are not too many resources out there for spouses of
> survivors of abuse.
> I have been living with my wife for 6 1/2 years and we have been
> married for 2. We have 2 small children.
> I suspected that my wife was the victim of childhood sexual abuse for
> quite some time, but she finally "told" me. "Told" is in quotes
> becuase she claimed it could have been an accident. She said her
> father sexually molested her. (that was no accident).
> She is a very angry woman, often taking her anger out on the children
> and me.
> Question for the group: Does anyone know if there is a support group
> for partners of people who were sexually abused as children? Kind of
> like AL-ANON.
> Thanks,
> Phil
>

Gomez,

I'm new to the message board but have been in several relationships with
survivors (recently realized the need to be needed and to be a savior is
MY problem).  Happy to hear you acknowledge that you can't save her,
only she can.  I will tell you this journey for me (7 years now) has
been full of great times and powerful memories, but the pain it caused
has been tremendous.  I'm in a very lonely relationship and my wife is
currently resisting all therapy and being destructive with our
relationship.  It hurts when you see the woman you love shut you out so
she can open herself up to other unhealthy people.  And you do this
while knowing you love her so much that the best thing is to let her go.
After all these years we are seperating so she can be free.  She thinks
she wants a life of fun, I know she wants to run.  I don't want to make
this response about me but I wanted to provide a tiny bit of insight
that if you can help her as a friend do so.  From what I've read in
books it's usually a 'safe' relationship that will bring about the
memories.   If you could do this without being intimate or taking the
relationship to the next level you'll probably know a much greater level
of stability.  The ups and downs and feeling of being alone can be
incredibly hard.  It's my 2 cents and you need to follow your heart.

I wish you luck on this journey.

Steve
--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "tbgomez14"
<tbgomez14@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings everyone. Not only am I new to this group, but I'm new to a
> relationship with a survivor. We've been seeing each other for
> around four months, decided to make things more serious over a month
> ago. All the warning signs have been there, I had my suspicions, but
> would never dare ask someone something so personal at this point.
> She just recently opened up about the CSA on her own volition. Of
> course, I was distraught and angry at the perpetrator, and still am
> to some degree. I appreciate the honesty and the trust she placed in
> me this early in the relationship. I wouldn't be here if I didn't
> care about her. I don't think she would have told me if she didn't
> care about me. There are obvious reasons to be concerned, though.
> The story goes something like this:
>
> I'm a young man (mid-20s) finishing up a graduate degree. She's one
> year younger, about to begin a graduate program (It will come as no
> surprise to many of you that she is pursuing psychology). The
> attraction was immediate. She is strikingly beautiful, educated,
> sweet and respectful, and we enjoy so many of the same activities and
> entertainments. Though, there was always also an element of sadness
> within her. She felt the need to consistently remind me when we
> first started seeing each other that she was not a "hoe," and that if
> I was just in this to "get some," then I'd better look elsewhere. I
> assured her that was not the case, because it wasn't and I never made
> inappropriate advances or suggestions. I told her I would always
> show her proper respect -- that I'm trying to find a woman that I can
> be faithful to for the rest of my life, not for just a few nights.
>
> She first told me that the aversion to intimacy was because of a
> combination of religous values, "overthinking" things, and an
> emotionally and verbally abusive ex whom she loved and trusted to
> share some intimacy with (everything but intercourse). It was a
> codependent relationship that destroyed her self-esteem, but that she
> was strong enough to break herself from eventually. My respect for
> her grew. A broken heart is the reason, she said, but that if I am
> patient for her we can get through it together. I believe her, this
> ex did not help matters at all. Still, something wasn't quite adding
> up in my mind.
>
> The rollercoaster was in perpetual full-on-mode. We would kiss, hold
> hands, have an amazing time together one night (some of the best
> dates you can imagine) -- and then the next night she would be
> totally withdrawn, not even a hug to say goodbye. She would discuss
> future plans for dates and possibilities one day, and then the next
> day be completely aloof and uninterested. I brought up the fact that
> I felt a little confused by her actions, she would tell me if I
> didn't think she was worth waiting for, to tell her and she would
> leave (classic guilt trip). I noticed that in many cases, she wanted
> a little alcohol before being affectionate in any way. That is
> disconcerting to say the least.
>
> The affection culminated one night into something more special and
> she asked me for intercourse. I deeply wanted to, I have the
> passionate desire for her and have had sex with women in much earlier
> relationship stages. However, she had told me before that the only
> time she had intercourse was with a friend a few years ago, whom she
> promptly told to stop in the middle of the act, and never spoke to
> again. I knew that she wasn't actually ready and told her we should
> wait, that we would get there later on in the relationship. She
> persisted, I refused. One of the best (and hardest) decisions I've
> ever made. She confessed later that very night, shaking in my arms,
> that she wasn't even sure she was ready for the things we HAD done
> and thanked me for not going further. I was crushed and confused, but
> I knew I did the right thing, though certainly not the easy thing.
>
> She could sense my confusion and concern as we saw each other in the
> past few weeks, but she insisted it was just because of her ex trying
> to contact her again, she'd be fine with time. A couple of nights
> ago she told me that the uncle who raised her, the closest thing
> she'd known to a father, committed CSA. Not just on her, but her
> siblings as well. I was devastated to actually hear it, although I
> suspected it. I told her she never deserved anything like that and
> that I was so sorry. She acted like the CSA didn't matter, that it
> was in the past. She's never been to therapy for it, although as a
> psych major she must know the damage is real and long lasting.
>
> All the pieces are starting to fall into place. The root of the
> problem isn't this ex boyfriend, it's her example of a man growing up
> who betrayed her trust, betrayed her body. Certainly it played a
> part in how she got into her unhealthy ex relationship. I
> immediately hit the library to do research on CSA, I want to
> undersand, even though I've never been through anything like it. I
> can't talk about this with my friends or family without feeling like
> I'm betraying her privacy-her right to keep this as secretive as she
> wants. I can't continue to talk to her about it because it dredges
> up bad memories and we're still in a stage in our relationship where
> it should be about having fun together to find out if we belong
> together, not conducting psychotherapy sessions.
>
> That's why i'm here. We aren't in love with each other yet, although
> we have committed ourselves to finding out where this goes. I know
> that I could find another partner, but I feel that she's not one to
> give up on -- a special person, even with her problems (which we all
> have of some kind). I grew up in a family where the right kind of
> love was shown to us as kids, where my parents were affectionate
> toward each other and properly so with us. I want to be able to have
> a healthy and faithful physical relationship with the woman I end up
> with.
>
> She says she's capable in time. She has been more affectionate than
> in the beginning, but there always seems to be moments of
> regression. I feel like I'm ready to take a leap of faith, even
> though my rational mind is throwing up caution flags at every turn.
> I don't want to leave her now. I also don't have any delusions of
> being her savior, but I can be there for her when times are tough,
> and hope that the good times outweigh the difficult. Maybe this
> group can help? Should I gain more experience in this, maybe I can
> return the favor one day.
>
> I realize that many of you have been partners for long periods of
> time and in much more serious relationship stages. I have only
> caught a brief glimpse of that world, and I have enormous respect for
> all of you. Thank you for hearing me out and for any advice or
> comments you have.
>
> -Gomez
>

I don't even know where to begin.  I'm married to (well now
separated) a survivor.  When we met I told her how I usually attracted
women that had had some form of abuse in their lives (long story about
me that makes that no coincidence).   She said she had never been
sexually abused, truth be told she just didn't realize how much she
was abused.

I embarked on a marriage with a wonderful woman who has just been abused
in so many ways; including emotionally abused by me.   Our journey is a
long story that I feel compelled to share because I'm lost with
where to go next.

7 years ago I met my wife and fell in love.  She has 5 children (4 of
them I adopted).  All 5 live with us (or me at the moment).  As our
marriage started we hit some rocky times.  I was very insecure and
needed constant validation of her love (this is where the emotional
abuse started).  I didn't realize until now that I had some serious
abandonment issues from my childhood and it led me to destructive
behaviors.  I had an eating disorder most of my adult life and in my
marriage it reached its worse stage.  I was an emotional eater and
overly concerned about appearance so I would purge after I binged.  I
thought I was in control and used this as my way to cope from the ups
and downs from my wife.  She would be emotionally and physically
available one day and then gone the next.  It always felt like she was
having an affair.  It fueled my issues and sent me deeper into my
problems.  As I went deeper into my problems it made life harder on her.
I would volunteer how my needs were not being met in the marriage and
she beat herself up over it for years.  I'm trying to work with her
in counseling to acknowledge what I put her through but she's been
resisting me, I can appreciate why with what I know about her past.

About 6 months ago I admitted to my wife my challenges with my eating
disorder and sought professional help.  I'm proud to say I've
entered into a healthy relationship with food and I now realize how to
put my needs ahead of others so I don't push down my pain.  I've
revisited my past and confronted my parents with their role in my
destructive behaviors.  I'm feeling really good about myself and my
future journey as it relates to healthy coping.

The challenge in my relationship with my wife.  Several years ago she
was displaying her own eating disorders (yep 2 in the same house!).  She
got to a point that she was under 100lbs and I worried she was going to
die.  I did somewhat of an intervention and she hates me for it.  I had
justified in my head that she needed help and I had control of my own.
It was very hypocritical and I don't know if she'll ever forgive
me.  To make matters worse she had to uncover so many things she
wasn't ready to go through.  She has childhood flashbacks of abuse,
some with teachers, some with another little girl, and a strange memory
of her dad, given her relationship with her parents I'm certain one
of them or both of them violated her.  To top all this off she was in a
couple physically abusive relationships and was raped.  It's all so
much for her to handle so she scratched the surface.  She got her eating
under control and quit therapy.

We moved a year ago because I got a new job.  During the transition I
had to relocate earlier than her and she sank deep into her eating
disorder.  When we reconnected it hasn't been the same.  She is
running faster and faster.  She got a job in a bar and has been making
tremendously unhealthy friendships.  She wants to meet as many men and
women as possible and has been slowly abandoning all of us.  She said
the pressure is too high and she doesn't know if she wants to be
married to me any longer.

I know she's trying to numb herself out from the pain and that she
is going through a destructive phase.  I worry that I won't be able
to handle some of the things she's probably doing.  I know her
eating disorder is in full control and I know she's been getting
very sexually talkative with her male and female friends.  I don't
know if she's gone any further but I know when she's in her own
place she'll probably lean on this as a way to cope.

I know this post is somewhat all over the map but I wanted to provide a
little background and perhaps I've entered journaling mode.
Here's my big struggle.  I'm healthy know and confident I will
remain healthy.  This woman is an incredible person and I want to
separate the desire to save her from what I need to do to take care of
our kids and myself.  I don't want to shut down but I know she has a
LOT to go through and she doesn't trust me enough right now to make
our relationship safe, I don't fault her for this.  I worry that
instead of her going off to start healing it's only going to get
worse.  She's going to drink and party more and find herself in so
many unhealthy settings.  She deserves so much better than this life.  I
can't save her but I don't want to give up on her.  She says she
needs a year to figure things out and signed a 1 year lease.  At this
point I don't even know what to ask of her or myself.  Still
overwhelmed that it's all taking this twist.  Seems the healthier I
have become the more she doesn't want to be around me.

Hi Chris,

First, I want to offer you my unconditional support in the myriad issues you're
dealing with in your relationship with a survivor of sexual abuse.

I think Simon's advice to postpone the idea of marriage is a very valid response
to the information presented about your current status with your survivor. I
have been in a long term relationship with a survivor, nearing 8 years now, and
I will tell you that the old adage is true... old dogs don't (often) learn new
tricks. That is to say, my partner suffered through the torment of her abuse for
25 years before actually seeking any help, i.e., therapy.  Therapy is a long and
involved process with many ups and downs and it takes a LOT of commitment from
the survivor for any lasting changes to happen.

I'm not trying to give you the glass half full response to your worries but I
want you to be well informed that no part of your journey with her will be easy,
particularly because she feels a great need to defend the abusing family
members. I see that often with my survivor partner, too, on the most base of
situations. I once called ONE OF (there are multiple) her abusers an idiot
because he was held back in school (they were nearly the same age when he
attacked her) and she defended him saying it was a language barrier issue. It is
frustrating to the point of being infuriating and there's nothing I can do. In
that instance I said to her "I can't believe you're defending this guy" and
there wasn't much she had to say as a reply. It's as if they forget (though I
know they never could) the terrible things that were perpetrated upon them, if
even temporarily, so that they can function. Because 3 of her 4 attackers were
family members, she had to see and engage them regularly for family functions
and still does to this day. She recently brought up the issues of abuse, again,
with her family, since they didn't believe her the first time and asked them to
protect her by NOT INVITING the attackers to family functions and her family
can't oblige her because it would cause to much drama within the family for
anyone to make a big deal about it. Besides, it was all 20+ years ago and she
should "just get over it anyway". They victimize her again and again and again.
I HATE THEM with my whole heart. I have fantasized of doing down right awful
things to her attackers. My fantasies of torturing them to the point of mental
breakdown (never death for I want them to suffer prolonged for years as she has)
has been one of the few things to keep me sane, however insane that sounds.

After 8 years, I have nothing to show but a deep and abiding hatred for these
men because they took from her (and from me) something they can never give back.
However frustrating things have been for you up till now, imagine that
frustration tenfold or more when you are knee deep in 10 years of relationship
with her and nothing has changed.

This all seems very pessimistic, I know. What I'm hoping to be for you is a
realist. I wish that someone on this forum told me 5 or so years ago when I
joined that whatever I was dealing with on the day I joined, I'd be dealing with
year after year after year. I want you to know that it IS possible for survivors
to change but it takes the utmost of dedication to go through the arduous
journey... the fear, hatred, hurt, and everything else awful that goes along
with remembering the heinous acts perpetrated upon them so they can finally heal
from it.

I really hope that peace exists for these tortured people but from the cheap
seats, it seems like something that happens for the very few, extremely
dedicated survivors.

My advice to you is to find happiness within yourself. Acknowledge that you
can't fix her. She has to do all the work herself. You can support her in the
journey and WE can support you in supporting her but don't expect things to
change. Expect to find out that she's lied to you about very important things
that she never should've lied about (It seems like a reoccurring theme with
survivors). Expect to have your heart broken, again and again, when she chooses
to defend them repeatedly. Expect to have your needs and your pain and anguish
perpetually placed on the back burner and expect to be patient beyond any level
of patience you have ever exerted in your lifetime because otherwise you will
either go crazy or leave her or both.

I sincerely say this to you with love and compassion for what you are enduring.
I fully understand and I want you to know that though I don't know you, I am
sending you the same love and positive energy I send out every day for all
partners of survivors and for the survivors themselves. This is a difficult
journey we are on made all the harder because sexual abuse and prevention is
something that isn't often discussed and/or addressed by society by and large
regardless of how common an occurrence it is within our society.



--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "simonshek_2000"
<simonshek_2000@...> wrote:
>
>
> Its good that you are seeking and getting counselling.  Please
> continue with it.  One can really sense the frustration you are
> feeling and going through.
>
> Based on what you've written, marriage may not be a great idea with
> this person right now.  Yes you have been with her for 5 years, but
> marriage is not the answer and certainly will not get rid of the
> people that make you so angry.  It is very unlikely that her family
> will change.  It may be good time to completely break from her and
> her family for some time for yourself, at minimum to come back to the
> situation later with different perspectives you could not have
> noticed before.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Simon.
>
>
> --- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "cincyjano2"
> <cincyjano2@> wrote:
> >
> > This is my first post.  I have been with a woman for five years who
> > has been abused sexually, physically, and mentally by people in her
> > family her whole life.  Her Mom left her when she was 4 years old
> and
> > had to live with her Aunt who was extremelly abusive.  Her cousin
> who
> > lived in the house with her molested her when she was 5 and the
> Aunt
> > didn't do anything about it.  The cousin eventually went to prison
> > due to beating his wife with a bat.  However the Aunt would take my
> > fiance when she was about 12 to prison to visit the cousin even
> > though she did not want to see him.  Within a year in the
> > relaitonship I found out that the Aunt beat my fiance 2 times to
> the
> > point where she almost killed her when she was a child.  I also
> found
> > out that her Aunt molested her brother. Whenever my fiance sees her
> > aunt or talks to her aunt she becomes suicidal and does things to
> > hurt herself.  For the first year I was very good with her I was
> very
> > supportive I would see her family whenever she wanted me to go over
> > even though I hated doing it.  As time has gone by she has revealed
> > more and more inforamtion about her aunt and her family.  I have
> > found out that the majority of the people in her family have abused
> > children.  As the time has grown so has my hate.  I refuse to see
> her
> > family.  Theres times where I do not want her to see her family. It
> > has been hard because she won't let me talk to anyone or get help.
> I
> > feel at times like shes trying to protect the people who are
> abusive.
> >  In November she wanted to get married right away with me and then
> > she took an extreme turn in December and broke up with me and said
> > that she needs her space to figure out if she does in fact want to
> be
> > with me.  I think the two big things that triggered this was 1) She
> > wanted me to go to her Aunts 60th Birthday Party last summer and I
> > refused to go.  I was so upset because she told me during the week
> > that we will not have kids because of her Aunt, that we will never
> be
> > happy because of her Aunt, and our life will revolve around what
> the
> > Aunt has done.  I did not want to go somewhere and sing happy
> > birthday to someone I feel is dictating our life.
> > 2) For the last two years we have been going to a side of a family
> > that she never grew up with that are very loving and normal. We
> have
> > had very good times seeing them for the holidays. She told me in
> > November that she doesn't want to spend time with those people and
> > that she wants to spend time with her Aunt and the side of the
> family
> > that is abusive.  She told me that what her aunt did was okay and
> > defended her Aunt. I just got angry and started yelling at her.  I
> > kept thinking about her brother who is suicidal due to her Aunt and
> > all the pain her Aunt has caused her that I just blew up.
> >
> > She told me a few weeks ago that the reason why she broke up with
> me
> > is due to the family, and that she will not contact me for awhile
> and
> > that she wanted me to get counseling and that she is going to get
> > counseling as well.  She said she needs to figure out if she wants
> to
> > marry me.
> >
> > I need help.  I am seeing a counselor and things are going very
> > well.  I love her with all my heart and she is the love of my life.
> > What do I do with this anger that I have for her family.  Is there
> > any books out there or anything.  All I keep thinking about is the
> > fact that this person almost killed the women I love twice and not
> > sure if the person I love will end up hurting herself to the point
> of
> > no return. She wants me to see these people. I feel that if we
> could
> > get over the family situation we would be very happy.  What do I
> do?
> > Any advice would mean a lot to me.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Chris
> > Report to moderator    24.13.63.93
> >
>

Its good that you are seeking and getting counselling.  Please
continue with it.  One can really sense the frustration you are
feeling and going through.

Based on what you've written, marriage may not be a great idea with
this person right now.  Yes you have been with her for 5 years, but
marriage is not the answer and certainly will not get rid of the
people that make you so angry.  It is very unlikely that her family
will change.  It may be good time to completely break from her and
her family for some time for yourself, at minimum to come back to the
situation later with different perspectives you could not have
noticed before.

Cheers,

Simon.


--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "cincyjano2"
<cincyjano2@...> wrote:
>
> This is my first post.  I have been with a woman for five years who
> has been abused sexually, physically, and mentally by people in her
> family her whole life.  Her Mom left her when she was 4 years old
and
> had to live with her Aunt who was extremelly abusive.  Her cousin
who
> lived in the house with her molested her when she was 5 and the
Aunt
> didn't do anything about it.  The cousin eventually went to prison
> due to beating his wife with a bat.  However the Aunt would take my
> fiance when she was about 12 to prison to visit the cousin even
> though she did not want to see him.  Within a year in the
> relaitonship I found out that the Aunt beat my fiance 2 times to
the
> point where she almost killed her when she was a child.  I also
found
> out that her Aunt molested her brother. Whenever my fiance sees her
> aunt or talks to her aunt she becomes suicidal and does things to
> hurt herself.  For the first year I was very good with her I was
very
> supportive I would see her family whenever she wanted me to go over
> even though I hated doing it.  As time has gone by she has revealed
> more and more inforamtion about her aunt and her family.  I have
> found out that the majority of the people in her family have abused
> children.  As the time has grown so has my hate.  I refuse to see
her
> family.  Theres times where I do not want her to see her family. It
> has been hard because she won't let me talk to anyone or get help.
I
> feel at times like shes trying to protect the people who are
abusive.
>  In November she wanted to get married right away with me and then
> she took an extreme turn in December and broke up with me and said
> that she needs her space to figure out if she does in fact want to
be
> with me.  I think the two big things that triggered this was 1) She
> wanted me to go to her Aunts 60th Birthday Party last summer and I
> refused to go.  I was so upset because she told me during the week
> that we will not have kids because of her Aunt, that we will never
be
> happy because of her Aunt, and our life will revolve around what
the
> Aunt has done.  I did not want to go somewhere and sing happy
> birthday to someone I feel is dictating our life.
> 2) For the last two years we have been going to a side of a family
> that she never grew up with that are very loving and normal. We
have
> had very good times seeing them for the holidays. She told me in
> November that she doesn't want to spend time with those people and
> that she wants to spend time with her Aunt and the side of the
family
> that is abusive.  She told me that what her aunt did was okay and
> defended her Aunt. I just got angry and started yelling at her.  I
> kept thinking about her brother who is suicidal due to her Aunt and
> all the pain her Aunt has caused her that I just blew up.
>
> She told me a few weeks ago that the reason why she broke up with
me
> is due to the family, and that she will not contact me for awhile
and
> that she wanted me to get counseling and that she is going to get
> counseling as well.  She said she needs to figure out if she wants
to
> marry me.
>
> I need help.  I am seeing a counselor and things are going very
> well.  I love her with all my heart and she is the love of my life.
> What do I do with this anger that I have for her family.  Is there
> any books out there or anything.  All I keep thinking about is the
> fact that this person almost killed the women I love twice and not
> sure if the person I love will end up hurting herself to the point
of
> no return. She wants me to see these people. I feel that if we
could
> get over the family situation we would be very happy.  What do I
do?
> Any advice would mean a lot to me.
>
> Thanks
> Chris
> Report to moderator    24.13.63.93
>

Welcome to POS.  Keep in mind your choice (is it really a choice?,
some say not.) of attempting to be a boyfriend to her and at the same
time friend to a survivor will be a difficult one.   You (and her)
are also fairly young which is typically a difficult time for
survivors and "normal" relationships anyways; let alone the
combination of the two.   She also mentions somewhere the issue
of "time"; something you will need to keep in mind when you practice
patience and giving her the space she needs.

I dont want to prejudice or influence your relationship too much,
only to say welcome to the site.  We have some really good people and
I hope you find it gives you some answers you need.

Cheers,

Simon.


--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "tbgomez14"
<tbgomez14@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings everyone. Not only am I new to this group, but I'm new to
a
> relationship with a survivor.  We've been seeing each other for
> around four months, decided to make things more serious over a
month
> ago. All the warning signs have been there, I had my suspicions,
but
> would never dare ask someone something so personal at this point.
> She just recently opened up about the CSA on her own volition.  Of
> course, I was distraught and angry at the perpetrator, and still am
> to some degree.  I appreciate the honesty and the trust she placed
in
> me this early in the relationship.  I wouldn't be here if I didn't
> care about her.  I don't think she would have told me if she didn't
> care about me.  There are obvious reasons to be concerned, though.
> The story goes something like this:
>
> I'm a young man (mid-20s) finishing up a graduate degree. She's one
> year younger, about to begin a graduate program (It will come as no
> surprise to many of you that she is pursuing psychology).  The
> attraction was immediate. She is strikingly beautiful, educated,
> sweet and respectful, and we enjoy so many of the same activities
and
> entertainments.  Though, there was always also an element of
sadness
> within her.  She felt the need to consistently remind me when we
> first started seeing each other that she was not a "hoe," and that
if
> I was just in this to "get some," then I'd better look elsewhere.
I
> assured her that was not the case, because it wasn't and I never
made
> inappropriate advances or suggestions.  I told her I would always
> show her proper respect -- that I'm trying to find a woman that I
can
> be faithful to for the rest of my life, not for just a few nights.
>
> She first told me that the aversion to intimacy was because of a
> combination of religous values, "overthinking" things, and an
> emotionally and verbally abusive ex whom she loved and trusted to
> share some intimacy with (everything but intercourse). It was a
> codependent relationship that destroyed her self-esteem, but that
she
> was strong enough to break herself from eventually.  My respect for
> her grew.  A broken heart is the reason, she said, but that if I am
> patient for her we can get through it together.  I believe her,
this
> ex did not help matters at all.  Still, something wasn't quite
adding
> up in my mind.
>
> The rollercoaster was in perpetual full-on-mode.  We would kiss,
hold
> hands, have an amazing time together one night (some of the best
> dates you can imagine) -- and then the next night she would be
> totally withdrawn, not even a hug to say goodbye.  She would
discuss
> future plans for dates and possibilities one day, and then the next
> day be completely aloof and uninterested.  I brought up the fact
that
> I felt a little confused by her actions, she would tell me if I
> didn't think she was worth waiting for, to tell her and she would
> leave (classic guilt trip).  I noticed that in many cases, she
wanted
> a little alcohol before being affectionate in any way.  That is
> disconcerting to say the least.
>
> The affection culminated one night into something more special and
> she asked me for intercourse. I deeply wanted to, I have the
> passionate desire for her and have had sex with women in much
earlier
> relationship stages.  However, she had told me before that the only
> time she had intercourse was with a friend a few years ago, whom
she
> promptly told to stop in the middle of the act, and never spoke to
> again.  I knew that she wasn't actually ready and told her we
should
> wait, that we would get there later on in the relationship. She
> persisted, I refused.  One of the best (and hardest) decisions I've
> ever made.  She confessed later that very night, shaking in my
arms,
> that she wasn't even sure she was ready for the things we HAD done
> and thanked me for not going further. I was crushed and confused,
but
> I knew I did the right thing, though certainly not the easy thing.
>
> She could sense my confusion and concern as we saw each other in
the
> past few weeks, but she insisted it was just because of her ex
trying
> to contact her again, she'd be fine with time.  A couple of nights
> ago she told me that the uncle who raised her, the closest thing
> she'd known to a father, committed CSA.  Not just on her, but her
> siblings as well.  I was devastated to actually hear it, although I
> suspected it.  I told her she never deserved anything like that and
> that I was so sorry.  She acted like the CSA didn't matter, that it
> was in the past.  She's never been to therapy for it, although as a
> psych major she must know the damage is real and long lasting.
>
> All the pieces are starting to fall into place.  The root of the
> problem isn't this ex boyfriend, it's her example of a man growing
up
> who betrayed her trust, betrayed her body.  Certainly it played a
> part in how she got into her unhealthy ex relationship.  I
> immediately hit the library to do research on CSA, I want to
> undersand, even though I've never been through anything like it.  I
> can't talk about this with my friends or family without feeling
like
> I'm betraying her privacy-her right to keep this as secretive as
she
> wants.  I can't continue to talk to her about it because it dredges
> up bad memories and we're still in a stage in our relationship
where
> it should be about having fun together to find out if we belong
> together, not conducting psychotherapy sessions.
>
> That's why i'm here. We aren't in love with each other yet,
although
> we have committed ourselves to finding out where this goes.  I know
> that I could find another partner, but I feel that she's not one to
> give up on -- a special person, even with her problems (which we
all
> have of some kind).  I grew up in a family where the right kind of
> love was shown to us as kids, where my parents were affectionate
> toward each other and properly so with us.  I want to be able to
have
> a healthy and faithful physical relationship with the woman I end
up
> with.
>
> She says she's capable in time.  She has been more affectionate
than
> in the beginning, but there always seems to be moments of
> regression.  I feel like I'm ready to take a leap of faith, even
> though my rational mind is throwing up caution flags at every
turn.
> I don't want to leave her now.  I also don't have any delusions of
> being her savior, but I can be there for her when times are tough,
> and hope that the good times outweigh the difficult.  Maybe this
> group can help?  Should I gain more experience in this, maybe I can
> return the favor one day.
>
> I realize that many of you have been partners for long periods of
> time and in much more serious relationship stages.  I have only
> caught a brief glimpse of that world, and I have enormous respect
for
> all of you.  Thank you for hearing me out and for any advice or
> comments you have.
>
> -Gomez
>