Thank you too, Brenda.

I was on the bottom for a long time, through my own doing, and some
ignorance about what and how the human being and our minds and healing
work. It was a long battle coming to sit with myself and realize it
was all lost perspective, lack of experience and walking close to the
fringes of such damaged people who often are very expressive and find
catharsis in artistic release. As an artist and growing up in a
household of professional musicians and artists, I was accustomed to
being around damaged souls and didn't know what a damaged soul really
WAS, except interesting as a personality trait.

The human mind is like the human body: bend an elbow the wrong way and
it breaks. That is the law of nature. The mind has similar limits and
patterns of articulation that have, more and more, been "mapped" so to
speak, within certain contexts and constructs of understanding by
modern sciences.

In S. America some anthropologist explorers in the last 40 or so years
made a discovery that partially rocked the boat on what we know and
understand about "normal". There was and is an article in National
Geographic somewhere about this: a tribe that has existed for who
knows how many tens of thousands of years and have a custom that is
completely normal for them.
...When children reach puberty they begin sexually servicing the older
members of the same gender as they are, moving into a communal area
with these elders. Both boys and girls become sort of "concubines" for
their elders, including their own parents. The boys normally perform
oral sex on the older men (they're taught to swallow- they are that
specific and open about the practice), and the girls, the same with
the older women. This goes on with the younger single people- who are
FORBIDDEN to interact with each other or even kiss or sleep near each
other (they're kept completely separate; men in one compound, women in
the other), until a marriage is arranged. Once two single young people
are married, they move OUT of the communal areas and into their own
"hut", and are considered no longer part of this sexual arrangement.
When interviewed, and later in follow up interviews and studies, no
issues with sexuality, abuse or problems with their orientation were
found, nor continued desire FOR the "unusual" sexual activities-
though no problems WITH the practice either. BECAUSE the youth are
taught (and in isolation to the rest of the world's ways) that this is
how it is, and NORMAL, there seems to be no weirdness emotionally or
boundary wise and people accept it simply how it is and a part of
life. Even it is so ingrained in their culture that they hardly
realize it is a form of "sex" as modern society called it, or incest.
Their consciousness was/is more focused on other parts of their lives
and even the relationships that had these events in them (the
interviewers found that the subjects were quite willing and open to
talk about the practice but found it strange that the interviewers
were not more interested in something more interesting). As it was
totally normal and the custom, no side effects OF ANY KIND even over
long term studies was found in any of the tribe members. Simply it was
and IS a way of life, that has NO ILL SIDE EFFECTS.

I don't know if anything has been done since with these tribes and
people- such as follow ups as the rain forests get less and these
people come more and more into contact with the "modern" world and
possibly emigrate some of them into it, what happens then...
Interesting eh?

Now those of you who are on here wanting help and wanting to
understand a bit more about these paradigms you've stumbled into
probably in total ignorance, like I did, let that above situation and
those tribal ways sit with you a bit and contemplate it and the
difference between what YOU believe is right, and WHAT A HUMAN BEING
is and HOW our minds and socialization can ARTICULATE in healthy ways,
as well as what you BELIEVE vs. how the human being works outside of
morality and ethics and socialization.

CSA's and abuse survivors find their ways 100% normal. YOU'RE THE ONE
with the REAL problem, PoS! You might think I am being cheeky or
sarcastic somehow, but in closed interviews, one of the biggest things
that CSA survivors have confessed, when able to be sincere and honest
(weather intentionally misleading or ignorant of themselves in these
ways), is the problem and inability to MATCH UP what THEY experienced
with HOW THE REST OF THE WORLD perceives it and seems to judge it.
This goes so deep and is such an issue that this very paradigm itself
is responsible and at the root of MUCH of the mental and emotional
illness that CSA's suffer from. There are variations on this theme,
just as there are variations on how betrayal and innocence can be
lost, but in the end the common thread is the outlook and perspective
everyone around these issues shares in the modern world.

Of course, as such, CSA's either join modern society and accept the
social customs, or find a "tribe" so to speak, where they are "normal"
and can feel more at home, and less "judged" for what is normal to them.

Ironically, most CSA's DO seek and find tribes of a kind, where they
can feel more at home and at ease, same as any of us, you or I: places
where people have issues that they won't be solving any time soon.

You can judge it if you like, but it is simply what it is. School
children don't hang out on the corners with hookers and take a lot of
drugs, become alcoholics and have alot of random sex with strangers in
bathrooms and bars, and similar situations (unless of course they are
CSA's). THIS IS WHY there is judgmental attitudes towards certain
forms of "business" and occupations and activities in place that have
strong christian backgrounds (I.E. a large part of, say, the USA).
This is partially why we have such moral judgments against, say,
hookers in front of elementary schools, to the point that the police
will come escort them to another location (is that legal? So what
gives?)...

Perhaps the CSA's are simply a tribe displaced, and the people who
perpetrated the crimes part of another kind and similar tribe, and in
the end, it is something somehow we all have to find some kind of
peace with. I don't know. Many options on the subject!




Mental and emotional illness is often equated with street people who
have grocery carts and bags and talk to lamp posts. The REALITY is
probably that more than 90% of the mental and emotionally ill people
look just like everyone else. That is not to say (and this is where
the wheat separates from the chaff when it comes to people who
understand what psychology is about vs. what it often seems to imply)
that there IS A PERFECT ROLE MODEL OR EXAMPLE OF PERFECT
MENTAL/EMOTIONAL HEALTH that is walking around or that we all somehow
"ought" to strive for or maintain. Psychology isn't about defining
what THAT is (though that might make for some interesting concepts
that need to be taken down)... Rather, this simply means, outside of
clinical diagnosis, as people have noticed, a lot of people have a lot
of issues.

BUT
more and more I'd say most of the world's population DOES NOT SUFFER
from any form of illness, dis-ease or mental/emotional problems. Of
course, no one LIKES being frustrated, and being frustrated is
probably mostly the same for most of us- we can't think normal, can't
find the solution easily, and that often makes us MORE frustrated
until we take a step back and breathe and re-assess, or take some time
out from the situation or issue that is frustrating us. Life isn't
always PLEASANT, as you know- but mental and emotional illness issues
CAN NOT BE RECOVERED FROM WITH SUCH EXERCISES as intentionally
regaining self-perspective.
Hence the term "dis-ease" or "illness".

The term, "unballance" though DOES imply, say, a pendulum or see-saw
that has gone too far one way- and as such, with skill and work, can
possibly BE "ballanced" again. Of course, if the underlying issues
that UNballanced it are not healed and dealt with though, and were
CREATED in the FORMATIVE BONDING years or via CSA abuse, forget about
it; the unballance is there to stay as it is a coping and damage
protection mechanism FOR survival.

WHERE THIS COMES INTO BEARING in situations like you possibly are in,
is in WHEN is it TREATABLE and when is it MORBIDLY OBSESSIVE and, so
to speak, "terminal"?

CSA's as a rule, are considered by professionals, when you read
between the lines (especially from authors and professionals with the
most experience in dealing with them in the real world and how they
treat them in long term studies and as patients) as being simply
people who one tries to "help make more comfortable with who they are"
and their condition and situation, to an extent. THERE IS RARELY an
effort to change anything about them. Rather, the process is to
monitor the CSA's who seek treatment, for "degrading and deterioration
over time". Then intervention is the policy.

THE PROCESS IS NOT TO "CURE"!!!! -No more than a concentration camp's
process was to cure people of being Jewish (is that a cure? What is
the illness? a religious choice? An enthnic supposition?).
Professionals are not going to try and CURE the CSA of BEING a CSA. It
can't be DONE.... a CSA is a CSA is a CSA is a CSA.
Get it?
You can euthanize them and they will still be a CSA, only no longer
here with us.

There is no cure, and no way to change this path.
Only partial healing, partial comfort and hopefully enough skills in
time to have peaceful relationships. What kinds of SACRIFICES this
peace comes at...Well you are beginning to understand IF YOU ARE HERE.
As you don't find the TRUCE agreeable obviously, and are lacking
something you want most likely.

TOUGH LUCK, PoS!
This IS the truce, or possibly almost as good as it will get.
DON'T TAKE IT PERSONAL. -the next one, if you leave, will get the same
deal, no matter what you believe or hear. IN THIS WAY you are no more
special than anyone and anything else- or in that the mind of your CSA
partner works like ALL the minds we humans are born with work. Grits
don't take 2 minutes to cook on their stove and 5 minutes for the rest
of the world. And broken and damaged means broken and damaged.
Something is missing and always will be- a happy and safe childhood
and youth. Something replaced it- horrors beyond anything you CAN EVER
understand, unless you too are a CSA.

Don't try believing you CAN understand it.
You won't fool the CSA. They KNOW you didn't experience it and in part
they possibly hate you for this, and everyone who was "luckier" than
they were.



Psychology isn't perhaps the avenue for "healing" as it is based on
trial and case studies to set the precedent. Unfortunately, for those
of you seeking hope and who want facts, as I've said before, this will
come as bad news, as the outlook -YES, US VERY BLEAK. Very bleak. Of
course depending on the situation and subtle details, the resiliency,
duration of abuse, the possibly healthy paradigms in place before it
all happened, the support structure, the recognition and
acknowledgment of it all... a myriad of little factors...
BUT...

THERE ARE ALMOST NO INSTANCES REPORTED AND STUDIED IN MILLIONS AND
MILLIONS OF CASES WHERE A CSA EVER BECOMES SOMEONE OTHER THAN A CSA.
That means, while symptoms and triggers can slowly ease up over time
and with professional help (should the CSA seek and stick with it),
They NEVER completely go away.

Not even with positive thinking, and forward healing and alternative
medicine.


The CSA often learns to simply NOT talk to their spouses or
significant others and partners about it, and perhaps only to a
trusted friend- quite possibly someone just like them. This is very
common for those of you who have and have been in longer relationships
or are older and have a CSA partner or know someone who had such a
childhood/youth. They just learn to cover it up and "act normal".



The bag lady or the guy talking to the post most possibly once were
involved in situations like you are involved with now- and finally
through their own issues, destroyed. You see the result of the typical
CHOICES of a CSA when you see one of these older street people: where
is their family? Where are their children? Where is their partner,
their loved ones, their history, their past?

-WHAT happened?

Yes it inspires compassion often. And yes it is hard to imagine that
person you love ending up like that. I'll bet it was the same for
these street people and their partners as well though.

In the end, the river flows to the sea and we return to our source
down the channel and path we choose and make for ourselves.



The CSA, in modern society, as A PART of society, has a path carved in
stone. They can NEVER feel normal about what happened to them BECAUSE
IT ISN'T NORMAL OR HEALTHY within the rules of the society they are
in, and in part, include themselves in. Maybe that is the crux of much
of the problem. Even if one were to put CSA's in special homes, where
everyone including the staff was just like them, ONE OF THE BIGGEST
PROBLEMS IS THEY ARE THEIR OWN JUDGE AND JURY.

A CSA can not make peace with the war that wages within themselves.
Blame, guilt, shame, rage, anger, hate, love, pleasure, pain... so
much that will never settle. These are the foundations of the symptoms
that most of you experience as PoS's and what brings you to places
like this looking for help, answers or solutions,

-and HOPE.

In the end, like you and I and anyone, a CSA seek comfort; what is
normal and safe for themselves, what their earliest experiences were.
Something to give respite. Drugs, alcohol, addictions, Drama, noise,
thrills, disaster, anything to make the pain and static go away for at
least a little while. Anything to bring them back to the world as they
first began to know it on a regular basis, between the ages of 1 and 7
years old.
If the trauma and abuse was lengthy and deep, between 1 and 13-14
years old, then this is what they seek as comfort for the rest of
their lives.

There is, again, no cure. There never has been and in our lifetimes
possibly never will be, as not only do the CSA's need help, and the
people who stay, but the very societies where they are born, bred,
live in and were created in have something in desperate need of
healing, that is in itself very ill.



Think about that.


----------------------------

If you want something, those of you who need a lifeline, to hold onto
and help yourselves, try and find ANYTHING on

"EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE"

Time-Life (or something similar) has something similar on the subject,
maybe even there is an "idiots guide to emotional intelligence"...???
(*grin* -I sure could have used one!)...
For sure there are a few small entry-level publications out there that
might open the doors to your mind and being about what you're involved
in and what you CAN DO to help yourself to regain your happiness,
peace and integrity. There are also some heavier books on the subject
if you desire.

Those of you who are in LTR's with CSA's, maybe it works in your
situation, or maybe you are more similar to your CSA than you care to
be honest about, or maybe you only know part of their sides, and the
rest they hide for fear of loosing something, as I said above. Also,
if you are lucky, quite possibly your CSA isn't so damaged and maybe
doesn't have a serious emotional disorder and mental illness from the
events, while perhaps for all you know everyone else on here who is
running into far worse issues than you and your partner have ever
encountered.

That might be hope for those of you who come here seeking an outlet.
In the end, that is all this is, really- an outlet. Rage, scream,
type, vent- GET IT OUT!!!!

Talk about it, and I'm sure we'll listen or vent our own feelings and
thoughts ourselves


In there, and in the safety of this group- as safe as you can make it,
is something that might be condusive for your healing.



We can't tell you what will happen, nor how your story will work out.
I'll bet even those closest to you can't tell you what you will do. We
CAN tell you, those of use who have done the research, what the odds
are and what kinds of typical outcomes are with CSA's, and why the
terms co-dependent and enabler exist, and why there are slang terms in
psychology for the various flavors of people who stay involved in
relationships with, say a BPD or Borderline Personality Disorder
suffering CSA. We CAN give you possible resources and some
information, but in the end, the help you get will be the kind you
give yourself, and seek from real professionals and counselors who you
sit down with, in person, week after week, to get some perspective
with and find your own integrity.


Try and read the stuff you find on emotional intelligence, ask the
hard questions about your mate and their abilities, and try and
remember your own dreams and what YOU wanted- the kind of life you
wanted to have and once dreamed of.

I guarantee you only this- a CSA will and can never give you anything
you dream about, unless you are very, very ill. If they suffer
noticeable symptoms to bring you to a place like this, they classify
as "mentally and/or emotionally ill" and even with professional help
for years- maybe decades, their options for recovery are quite
possibly very slim indeed.

Or you probably wouldn't be here.

Those are the facts for them.
For you?

Perhaps when you're done, you'll be done, and ready for the rest of
the world again. You'll know when you know, and until then, this is
what you are choosing to help you learn something only you understand.

I'll bet there is a gift in it though, if you survive intact.
C.S. Lewis said that pain is the greatest teacher of all- it makes us
all that more aware of joy and the precious, priceless, short gift we
have that is
Life.



Again, may you find your own peace in carrying this torch so bravely.
And may your efforts help light up the dark in this night of these
sides of humanity. My heart goes out with you, and my prayers.




I'll be thinking about you over the years.


-JP