Daniel,
Thanks for checking in. Your empathy has been so helpful to me
during this emotional odyssey. Yes. what a "new" life it is. I am
keeping an open mind, ocassionally meeting new people, but nothing
exceptional yet. Admittedly, I'm doing that because it's one way to
ease out of my mourning and to also forget the past (as an
alternative to the fictional but ideal solution in Eternal Sunshine
of the Spotless Mind, when one is plagued with good and bad memories
of love).

My ex, the CSA, sent me one message a week ago. This time indicating
it was just a note to say thank you for the books "and most of all a
thank you for keeping it confidential." You see, I neglected to
mention that when it came time for me to prepare the packet of his
items to return, I decided to include the CSA books I had read 6
months ago when I was trying to understand CSAs and the impact on
their relationships. I felt a moral obligation that if someone
refuses to get help out of shame, the least I can do is give him the
information I have so that he at least has one option to address the
problem in his privacy and in his own time. I placed a small note
that said if he decided not to use the books, I did not want them
back, and that my gesture is unconditional and that I did not expect
anything in return. So basically, I don't need to know the outcome
of any efforts he undertakes to help himself; I just feel better
knowing he has the books. He obviously was not offended I gave them
to him. So, it's a good sign about how receptive he may be to the
idea of healing (although not yet about therapy). Again, I have no
stake in the outcome as I have no expectation that he heal so he and
I can be together. On the contrary, I am now on my separate new
course, moving on.

Finally, Daniel, you raise an interesting nuance, not only CSAs are
damaged with fear of intimacy and the subconscious need to sabotage
promising loving relationships; even non CSAs can have intimacy
problems. I agree: Our CSA-ex's/or regular ex's have made us all the
stronger and better informed from that past experience. Some
difficult relationships do evolve into mutually and subjectively
fulfilling ones, which you are fortunate to be in and in which your
CSA partner is invested in nurturing. You're a good man and you
deserve a love that you feel is rewarding. It seems you have it. I
hope there is hope for the rest of us to find that (with CSAs or non-
CSAs).

Thank you. I also keep you in my thoughts. Be well. We'll be in
touch.

S.


--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "danielsherenow"
<ragman21@...> wrote:
>
> It's so quiet here!
>
> First, a note on some recent posts: we should make sure not to
> generalize. Not all survivors of CSA are so damaged that they
can't
> handle a relationship, that there's no hope for those who try to
love
> them. Some no doubt are, and they're a dreadful waste of time, and
> make us question ourselves for even bothering. But if one of us
has
> a terrible experience it doesn't mean there's no hope for others.
>
> Let me add this: Before I met my CSA wife, I had a girlfriend, one
of
> the major relationships of my life, and she was not a CSA
survivor.
> But she had problems in relationships (though not with sex, the
kind
> of sex that simulates genuine intimacy but isn't). We had lovely,
> endless talks, great times together.
>
> Years after we broke up, when I looked back with maturity and
> distance, I realized she was clearly incapable of intimacy -- the
> relationships she had before and after me proved it. She broke my
> heart, and I moved on -- though I'm stil stirred by certain
memories
> of us together -- ahhh, the strange ways of human desire!
>
> I might add that it was only with the insight and compassion I
> learned from my wife's issues that I understood what my old
> girlfiend's problems were. I realized that she sabotaged all her
> relationships. (I still feel the sting of when I found out she had
> been unfaithful, and lied about it, just before we got serious.
She
> got what she unconscously wanted: to be alone. In fact, decades
> later, I've heard that she still is.)
>
> What I'm driving at is that bad relationships and problems with
> intimacy are not the exclusive province of CSA survivors.
>
> And last, a note to "S": I think of your plight often and hope you
> are hanging in there and doing well in your "new life."
>
> Daniel
>
>
> --- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "fides73"
> <smmma@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Daniel. Thanks for responding. I really appreciate your
> > insightful perspective. I think my discomfort in hearing from
him
> > unexpectedly is in that it brought up several emotions, but not
the
> > expectation that he healed in these 4 months. One thing I've
been
> > certain about is that he would do nothing to address his
emotional
> > problems(especially because he was finishing his last/summer
> > semester then I heard he went out of the country for a month to
> > visit his mother and sister). So he has done nothing
emotionally,
> > and I explain also why even his message reveals that.
> >
> > Admittedly, I still love him; I don't think it would be real
love
> if
> > I had gotten over that basic feeling for him even until now.
> > However, his email triggered a confusion that was mainly anger;
I
> > have gone through a very painful grieving period during which I
> came
> > to realizations about what I deserved and while I have some
> sympathy
> > for him as a victim, I realize he will remain toxic to himself
and
> > anyone who becomes intimate with him if he remains irresponsible
> > enough to rule out seeking help for his pain.
> >
> > With that in mind, it was appalling that he took a chummy tone,
as
> > if nothing tumultuous had happened, as if he had not hurt me,
and
> as
> > if he was not someone who had dropped out of my life abruptly,
> > disappeared for over 4 months (yet would ensure that I was not
> > invited to events of mutual friends where he would be present,
> which
> > is fine, but the act of coordinating to exclude me as if I was
some
> > offender offended me). So I did not go as far as to seriously
think
> > he wanted to get back together because he sent me this email.
(Sure
> > he could miss me and resuming the relationship could be a
> > possibility he may have thought to ease into--given the fact
that
> he
> > could have considered other means to deliver the items). But
what
> > upset me more and confirmed he wanted to reenter my life in some
> > form and with impunity is that after the email to me, he sent
> > another email two minutes later with some funny link to about 10
> > people, NOW including me. Soemone who abruptly and rudely drops
me,
> > disappears and yet all of a sudden I'm some friend he wants to
send
> > funny forwards to?! I am offended by his expectation that I can
> > automatically forget our intimate relationship and that he would
> not
> > think I could be somehow transformed or affected by that whole
> > experience. So he brings me back into his life, because now he
> feels
> > like it? How insensitive can a person be without realizing what
> some
> > gestures imply?
> >
> > You're right, Daniel. He was not thinking this through when he
> > reached out. I'm bothered by his obliviously friendly tone and
> > appraoch. If he wanted to see me he could be a little more
sincere,
> > but not act like he did not put me through something terrible.
> > That's the problem. I think it is an indication of a larger
problem
> > pattern: He will ignore the horrible occurrences, leave all
> > sentiments unresolved only to inevitably erupt later. That's
what
> > he's done all his life about is childhood abuse.
> >
> > As you can see, since I posted last week I have had time
deliberate
> > on my various emotions. So I was able to come to a decision and
I
> > dealt with this a few days ago. My gut feeling told me that
seeing
> > him would be detrimental for two reasons: (1) After having been
> > burned on that stove, I have that fear of putting myself in a
> > situation in which I will feel tender emotions, but will be
> > emotionally slapped somehow again; I don't want to re-experience
> > some form of that.(2) His need to see me is primarily self-
serving
> > as he could not express any measure of remorse (I don't mean
> remorse
> > for breaking-up, but for the horrible way he treated me the last
> > time I saw him). Instead, he wants to see if I think he's
horrible,
> > since he must feel some guilt or self-loathing for his impulsive
> > behavior. He does not deserve the courtesy of me seeing him so
as
> to
> > allay his guilt and appease his doubts about whether I hate him
> > (when he won't even evince some apologetic sentiment toward me
in
> > the email). I don't need to be his absolver. For those two
reasons
> I
> > could not indulge his request to meet him because I would just
be
> > demeaning myself. (Yes, there is a small part of me that does
hope
> > he feels the finality and loss of someone like me.)
> >
> > I have some things he lent me, but I never had the intention of
> > reaching out to him to return them. So here is what I decided: I
> > asked a mutual friend whether he'd be willing to get the stuff
from
> > him and give him what I have. I then emailed my ex a 3 sentence
> > email, succinct, non-chatty or chummy(perhaps cold), but
dignified,
> > not rude. I said there was "no need to meet" that our mutual
friend
> > will contact him to get the items and to return what I had. I
> wished
> > him "success in his endeavors." I think that short email, speaks
> > volumes, as I wouldn't expect him to respond to that, and he
hasn't.
> >
> > So LONG story short: I took the first official step (in his
eyes)
> > that I am moving on--to preserve my sanity and self-worth.
> >
> > But I will admit something that I do not believe contradicts my
> > decision: Hypothetically, had his first communication with me
> > indicated he has decided to get help now and he wanted to get
back
> > together, acknowledged he was destructive but had remorse, I
would
> > have acquiesed. But he didn't, so he will never know that...
> >
> > Such is life.
> >
> >
> > --- In
> positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "danielsherenow"
> > <ragman21@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi S.,
> > >
> > > You bring back much with the notion of that blast out of blue,
> > when
> > > something you thought was over is suddenly happening again,
four
> > > months up in smoke, you're back THERE -- all from one little
> email.
> > >
> > > Now, have you truly given up hope that a relationship with him
> > will
> > > work out? You're not secretly (even from yourself, the
rational
> > part
> > > of you mind) hoping that the months with no contact from you
have
> > > miraculously "cured" him and turned him into a loving, giving
> > > (probably harder to be than "loving") person?
> > > I hope you have, but you have to be honest with youself before
I
> > say
> > > anything else.
> > >
> > > How much do you need the stuff he has of yours? Do you really
> need
> > > any of it? I would guess that when someone suddenly wants to
give
> > you
> > > back physical items like this he really wants something else,
> > either
> > > just to see you, or to start things again. I mean, he could
mail
> > the
> > > stuff, or hand them over to a neutral party (if there are
any),
> as
> > > could you with his stuff.
> > > It reminds of once, way back, when a girlfriend I had broken
up
> > with
> > > came by my apartment to tell me that we were still broken up,
and
> > > that she didn't miss me at all. Needless to say, she spent the
> > night
> > > and we started up again (for a while).
> > > Like that old girlfriend, it's possible that your ex -- he
> doesn't
> > > sound too self-aware -- doesn't even realize what his real
> motives
> > > are. But, if you think about it, it's nothing short of
> > preposterous
> > > that his sole motive is to return those material, easily
> > replaceable
> > > objects.
> > >
> > > Here's what I would do. Either "a," for ignore, or better,
write
> > back
> > > and tell him quite nicely but firmly that it's over, you can't
be
> > > shunted aside like a piece of clothing you pull out from the
> > drawer
> > > after four months because you're mood to wear it again.
> > > Could you handle seeing him again and accepting the stuff? It
> > could
> > > bring closure for you, but my instinct tells me it might not.
> > >
> > > You sound so loving and ready for a relationship, and it's
clear
> > you
> > > gave this guy every chance in the world to make it work with
you.
> > You
> > > were amazingly understanding and patient, and generous,
willing
> to
> > > sacrifice your own quite natural needs because you loved him
and
> > > wanted to make him a whole, loving man -- what more could a
man
> > ask?
> > > But he's not ready, that's for sure, and my guess is he won't
be
> > for
> > > a long time. You can wish him the best of luck -- I even do,
we
> > both
> > > know this guy is struggling -- but move on with your life.
> > > You should take what you offered him, gifts men search for in
a
> > > woman -- and give them to this new guy, or the others who will
> > surely
> > > come along.
> > > You know what I'm saying is true, don't you?
> > > Keep us posted.
> > >
> > > Daniel
> > >
> > > --- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "fides73"
> > > <smmma@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello everyone. While I have not posted in some time, I
> continue
> > to
> > > > read through your latests. Last I posted was in late June;
> > perhaps
> > > > it can be found far back under my screen name Fides73.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, the backgroud related to my survivor ex-boyfriend's
> > issue
> > > > will be in those late June postings, if you want a refresher
on
> > > this
> > > > one:
> > > >
> > > > After we returned from a May vacation together, he abruptly
> > ended
> > > > our realtionship this June because he believed he was a
victim
> > > > of "bad timing," because he was "overwhelmed" with finishing
> > > > college, working, not only to pay his debts but for his
mother
> > and
> > > > sister abroad for whom he sends a substantial subsidy. So he
> had
> > to
> > > > cut something out and it turned out to be me. (Didn't mean
to
> > imply
> > > > I was receving $) No. Rather he had to cut off my place in
his
> > life
> > > > as he knew that it requires time and dedication, which he
felt
> > he
> > > > was not in a position to give me. I basically said: "Fine.
If
> my
> > > > relationship to you represents a burden rather than a source
of
> > > > support. I don't want to be considered a source of stress."
I
> > never
> > > > criticized or reproached him for all his responsibilites and
> > > whether
> > > > they impacted on our relationship. In fact, I did nothing to
> > > > exacerbate his problems; I was an accommodating, non-
demanding
> > > > girlfriend; I figured if he had a stable girlfirend which
would
> > > > represent the morale support during his difficult times. He
> also
> > > > claimed he was intimidated by my profession and that I own a
> > home.
> > > > (a hidden and unexpected sentiment). He knows those
> insecurities
> > > are
> > > > his problem (not casued by me). However, he'll never work on
> > them
> > > > (i.e.theray). I made clear that I would never force anyone
to
> > stay
> > > > with me. Unfortunately, his insecurities blind him from the
> > > > positives I just mentioned. The other kick to the stomach
was
> > that
> > > > he disavowed everything he said to me about being in love
and
> > > > wanting marriage and that I would be "the mother of his
> > children."
> > > >
> > > > As he was breaking it off with me, he mentioned that he was
> > having
> > > > memories of the abuse (possibly triggered by the death of
his
> > close
> > > > cousin and all his general stress).
> > > >
> > > > Well, it's now a little over 4 months. I have had no
> > communication
> > > > with him since. After I got through the excrucuating phase
of
> > > > licking my wounds, I decided to "move on." In fac, just
> recently
> > I
> > > > started dating a great guy, but it'd in the beginning
stages.
> > > > However, I have built no expectations about it and if it
> doesn't
> > go
> > > > well, I am willing to meet new people. The early
expectations
> > that
> > > > somehow my ex-boyfriend would come to his senses and not
want
> to
> > > > lose me are SOO over.
> > > >
> > > > Here's the UPDATE: I received an email earlier from him in a
> > chummy
> > > > tone (as if the abruptly ripping my heart out had never
> > happened,
> > > > the relationship was erased and he and I had only
> been "friendS"
> > > > since we met). He asks how I am and mentioning that he found
a
> > book
> > > > I lent him and that he has some dvds that are mine as well.
> He'd
> > > > like to give them back to me and would like to arrange a
> meeting
> > so
> > > > we can also catch up.
> > > >
> > > > How do I handle this? A. Ignore, B. indulge the request, or
C.
> > > > appear to receive the items, but don't give him the luxury
of
> > chit-
> > > > chat that he craves?
> > > >
> > > > I have a few items he had lent me that I did not have an
> > > opportunity
> > > > to return to him, given the abrupt break. Among those books
and
> > > > movies is a packet that is filled with a few books that,
early
> > on
> > > in
> > > > my break-up PTSD, I bought to read because they concerned
male
> > > child
> > > > sexual abuse. I did so to understand him and even to inform
> > myself
> > > > about whether his bizarre behavior to let go of me could be
> > > > rationalized by theories in such books. More importantly, I
> came
> > to
> > > > realize that if he was never going to seek therapy for this
> > crucial
> > > > aspect of his childhood (that still torments him and causes
him
> > to
> > > > sabotage good things like this relationship), then he should
at
> > > > least avail himself of the benefit of reading those books in
> > > > privacy. (I have nothing to gain as I do not intend to
> > resucitate a
> > > > relationship out of it) I had thought to give him those
books
> > with
> > > > as short an explanation as what I said to you all 2
sentences
> > ago.
> > > > WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT ME GIVING HIM THOSE BOOKS?
> > > >
> > > > I would love to hear from any of you. Daniel, if you're out
> > there,
> > > > please reply. You always give such objective and caring
> feedback.
> > > >
> > > > S.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>