--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "danielsherenow"
<ragman21@...> wrote:
>
> I confess to not reading through your entire post, but I must jump
in
> to say I believe what you wrote is overly pessimistic.
> I have been married to a CSA survivor for a couple of decades, and
> we've had struggles, going back to when she first understood that
the
> weird things her stepfather did to her and her sister was -- that
big
> scary word she never before uttered in this context -- ABUSE.
> But it did not destroy our relationship.
> There is nothing sick or self-destructive in the fact that I love
her
> and choose to be with her. My own personal tale of stuggle and
growth
> in this process is not relevant here, and it's also equally useless
> to compare the degree of abuse she suffered vs another's -- always
a
> losing game, comparing anyone's pain or loss with someoone else's.
>
> I acknowledge that there are self-destructive relationships, and
> there are those who are drawn to certain kinds of victims, a
> variation of the "enabler" theories in addiction, and men and women
> who choose partners with whom they will always have less than what
> they could have elsewhere.
>
> But some of us just fall in love, and as a consequence work to
enrich
> the lives of those we love (and our own).
>
> I do agree that there are CSA survivors here along with us, and
their
> issues are different. Yet still, the wonderful -- and I use the
word
> quite deliberately -- thing about this group is that it's for the
> partners. Many of us, myself included, and sought in vain for a non-
> virtual group like this; there are a million for the survivors, but
> apparently few, if any, for their partners.
>
> In any event, I'm also someone who reads often (though I also drop
> out for months or years) but posts infrequently. But I'm here to
say
> there can be plenty of hope and pleasure in a relationship with a
> survivor. And don't forget there can also be plenty of grief and
> betrayal and emptiness in a relationship between two "normal"
people.
>
> I make no judgment on the relationships of those reading this. But
I
> will say, with certainty, you are not doomed.
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> --- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "JP"
> <Brahmadomtao@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey
> > It's been a long time since I was on here. I haven't read any
posts
> > lately (in years perhaps)...
> >
> > For those of you new to the support group here, on line, my story
> was
> > pretty basic: ran into an incredibly interesting woman as a single
> > young man, things went from wonderful with brief bouts of really
> > strange behavior to hell on earth over 2 years as I came to learn
> > about the severity of my, at the time, partner's mental and
> emotional
> > illness from CSA survival. I was a psychology student and
teacher,
> and
> > I began to specialize in these particular kinds of cases in my
> > learning. After a horrible breakup, the worst in my life, I
> discovered
> > exactly why people are called "damaged" and "broken" and why in
> > psychology we have clinical terms for people who were robbed
forever
> > of a stable and safe entry and beginning in this life and on
earth.
> > The tragedy only became real when I realized there was "no cure"
and
> > "help" simply meant eventually she, if she lives long enough, can
at
> > least be comfortable with who she is and the destiny she has.
> >
> > while learning these things over the last 2+ years, I became a
bit
> of
> > a voice for some very important things on this forum- simply that
> new
> > people on here believe some things about the internet that are
not
> true:
> >
> > 1) "There are no doctors in the house", so to speak. That means
this
> > is wide open to anyone. When I started on here I was working on my
> > masters degree, and a few other people had some credentials, but
the
> > moderators are more often just that- people who have assumed from
> the
> > good will and personal motivations only known to them, to BE the
> > people who CAN moderate this forum- to qualify for THAT in yahoo,
> all
> > you have to do is START a group, and you are the admin and
> moderator.
> >
> > That also means that you have to take your advice and support here
> > with a grain of salt. There are a LOT of ill people on line, and
> this
> > group is no different. Even many people in this group are victims
> and
> > CSA's who masquerade as PoS's. I advised that victims and CSA's
> leave
> > and that they are NOT welcome- after all it is a support group for
> > PARTNERS of such people. One of the intrusive subtle battery
issues
> > when dealing with abused people is that they tend to know the
> paradigm
> > OF abusive ways, which means lack of respecting of appropriate
> > boundaries. Understand? That means that this sort of a rule not
only
> > will be violated (and the sure sign of someone who continues to
> > violate it is that they are a CSA and have social and
> > personal/emotional/mental problems, so best ban or block them if
> they
> > keep coming back). I think it is CRITICAL that this forum be only
> for
> > partners, where we finally have a place we might be able to vent,
> > express, and work out in some form, some kind of cathartic release
> > from all the hell that PoS's have to deal with when one has
choosen
> to
> > be or continue in some form of a personal relationship with a very
> > damaged person for whom there is no fixing, only coping and some
> > repair. Like living on the edge of a nuclear wasteland, one can
get
> > "irradiated" simply be over-exposure to the CSA perspective,
outlook
> > and belief paradigms. This OUGHT to be a safe place to come as a
> PoS.
> > Again, sure sign of someone who is a CSA is that they don't
respect
> > that and remove themselves from this forum.
> >
> > 2) There is no cure or fixing for a CSA. Even, society is what
needs
> > to be "fixed". Perhaps CSA's are simply there to teach us
> compassion,
> > empathy, boundaries, healthy relaitonship paradigms... I mean, if
> you
> > SURVIVE a relationship with a CSA, you're bound to either become
> > horrible dysfunctional OR you'll have learned something even the
> best
> > psychologists in the world can not ever understand- what it REALLY
> > MEANS to be disturbed, emotionally and mentally, from a 1st person
> > perspective of living in and out, day after day, night after night
> > with a CSA. That is priceless, and will teach you something
> > incredible, for sure, regardless of the outcome. But again,
there
> is
> > no cure as there is nothing "WRONG" with CSA's- they simply don't
> know
> > and can never be taught the things you were taught by example. IF
> they
> > COULD be taught, they could be CSA victims- the term itself is
> > indictive of someone who was robbed of some of the most essential
> > ingredients to life- that love is real, safe and respect is not a
> word
> > but a deed. On the day that a CSA returns whence we all came from,
> > they will still not understand to the depth IN EXPERIENCE, though
> > perhaps better than even the normal person who takes it for
granted,
> > what true safety and love really means and was all about. You
can't
> > change that or fix it, not until they invent a time machine to
take
> > you back in time. Fighting that truth is like pretending a one-
> legged
> > man can run and will grow his leg back. Sure, maybe it CAN
happen,
> but
> > so far it never has- again that doesn't mean it WON'T, but in all
of
> > time, so far it hasn't. Believing too much in "there is a way to
> > change this, there is a cure, there is a way to fix this, I can
show
> > them what love and trust and safety is all about" is a sure sign
you
> > need to learn more and begin to open your mind to the fact that
this
> > is partially WHY the CSA found you attractive and got involved
with
> > you. Harsh, but go take some classes and don't take it personal-
> it's
> > not, it's just life and how the mind works.
> >
> > 3) There IS hope. THERE IS HOPE.
> >
> > Again I will say it.
> >
> >
> > THERE IS HOPE....
> >
> >
> > But only for YOU. The CSA, if you walk away right now, and come
back
> > in 20 years, will still be doing almost the EXACT SAME THINGS
they
> are
> > doing with you, but with someone new. Maybe they'll have more
> > integrity (remember, integrity is being ok with who you are and
what
> > you do- a seriall killer with no remorse has more integrity than
> > someone who regrets the act of killing, capice?). So they'll
> probably
> > be more COMFORTABLE with who they are, and if anything, really NOT
> > appreciate any judgements about it- CSA's learn over time to
remove
> > themselves from people who measure them to some social standards,
a
> > lesson that has it's pros and cons (sociopaths adapt the same
> > paradigm). But walk away now, and the truth is, you won't have
> failed.
> > Simply, you'll have removed yourself from the path of this
person's
> > life, and hopefully, from future similar encounters.
> >
> > I wasn't always an advocate of this, and of course, I wanted to
> > believe anything other than what I learned. I cried and cried for
a
> > year, missing the brief moments of beauty and incredible promise.
I
> > came to learn that in all the studies done, in all the research on
> > CSA's and the paradigm of lost innocence in infancy and youth,
and
> the
> > depths of violation and betrayal that a CSA experiences, that by
> > NATURE OF THE DEFINITION (what got you on HERE, this forum to
begin
> > with) is something that is carved in stone: if an adult, or
someone
> > over the age of roughly 9-14 years old shows signs of CSA
> > victimization, then the odds are almost nill that this can ever,
> EVER
> > EVER EVER Change. Just like if you like to eat food or drink
water.
> A
> > CSA likes what they grew up with, in a horribly twisted way -
because
> > it's what they know and it's safe. This is why CSA's gravitate
> towards
> > repetitive patterns and unhealthy people or people who need to
> learn a
> > bit better what healthy MEANS in real actions in relationship. A
CSA
> > is a teacher, in a negative way, about boundaries, love,
compassion,
> > empathy, and for YOU, self-respect. Self-respect is the ONE
thing,
> and
> > the FIRST thing that a PoS looses, without realizing it. And then
> they
> > loose perspective, and until the bottom washes out, and they
begin
> to
> > look for help (which can take a month, or decades) doesn't
return.
> >
> > By your reaching out, you're asking, without realizing it, for
> OPTIONS
> > and PERSPECTIVE. A RETURN to normal, as you define it, a return to
> > what YOU knew as an infant and a child, growing up -love and
safety,
> > trust and respect, nurturing, needs fulfilled, nothing twisted and
> > converted and convoluted and made to hurt; a return to what is
safe
> > and comforting for YOU. That means, something has begun to want
to
> be
> > healthy. That is REALLY GOOD NEWS!!! It means there is hope for
YOU.
> >
> >
> > So I went traveling, traveled the world a bit, gave up on
> psychology-
> > everything I read (and I read everything, maybe a few odd books
here
> > and there I only skimmed over, but I have over 600 psychology
books
> > and manuals I studied cover to cover, and 4 years of studying,
even
> > under some of the top teachers in the world on this subject)...
> After
> > some time and healing for myself, I rediscoverdd who I AM and
what I
> > wanted as a child and growing up, and what I needed in a
> relationship
> > with myself, and what MY dreams were.
> >
> > I met my spouse in the UK while traveling, and moved to the other
> side
> > of the world and started to work actively on making all my dreams
> come
> > true. It's happening day by day. I'm a father, a teacher,
traveler,
> > writer, designer and architect and I'm helping change the world
in a
> > place where things have a chance in a society that needs help.
> >
> > Not everyone is hurt or wounded, not everyone is damaged, not all
> > things are beyond repair. Not every relationship is like a CSA,
nor
> > are all CSA's the same. But once we have been robbed of something
> back
> > in the past, in the formative years, it can not be recovered, only
> > something close over time might replace it- but never can that
void
> > and childhood without it be revered or replaced. It is the KARMA
of
> a
> > CSA and something they will have to learn to live with and cope
> with.
> > They are interesting and often vitally alive people, who walk the
> > edges of places many of us wouldn't ever tread. But they are also
> > often the most volitile and dangerous people, who will risk your
> very
> > life without even blinking an eye- endangering you to AIDS in the
> most
> > real ways, and other illnesses with their habits and patterns as
> they
> > seek out to relive and conquer their past, or at least feel like
it
> is
> > normal- because it is normal for them, and chaos and pain and
hurt
> was
> > something that became "safe" and "predictable" for them- the
terror
> > and torment become a comfort and something that one could rely
on.
> >
> > In this way, a CSA is a different species than the rest of the
> world.
> > They are the victims of others like them, others who lacked the
> > compassion and empathy that we are often guided to learn if we
are
> to
> > survive being a PoS.
> >
> > There is help, for you and for them. But mostly for YOU.
> >
> > and if you walk away, hold you head high. You're alive, real, and
> you
> > have something special- you CAN live a healthy and happy life
> without
> > there things in it- 150%.
> >
> > Walking around the cities of this world I came to realize, WE
REALLY
> > CAN LIVE WITHOUT THIS STUFF. There are soooo many healthy, whole,
> > incredible people on this earth who would NEVER be diagnosed with
a
> > term like 80-95% of CSA's would qualify for in a psychologists
> office.
> > The world is FULL of people who can love and be loved, trust and
be
> > trusted, believe and be believed in, who will come through and
give
> > sincerity with everything they are and have, who will not let you
> > down, and who have the CAPACITY for a whole and healthy life, just
> > like you. The world is FULL of people who can LEARN from their
> > mistakes and RECOVER when they stumble, and pick THEMSELVES up,
and
> be
> > COMPLETE and FREE-HUMAN BEINGS.
> >
> > And they are, in the end, far more interesting, in my opinion,
than
> > the tragedy of the CSA karma.
> >
> > I 100% stand behind the choice to leave and walk away from a CSA-
> as a
> > doctor and psychologist (though I don't practice, only write), it
is
> > even THE MOST HELPFUL THING you could EVER DO for most CSA's. You
> can
> > not change their fate- it was carved in stone, long before you
came
> > along.
> >
> > But you can change yours.
> > And there is hope for you.
> >
> > The world is simply full of light and life and healthy people and
> hope.
> >
> >
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> > I'm happy now, and living my dreams. It's not a fairy tale, but as
> > close probably as one can come in the real world, with work and
> effort
> > and learning, changing and growing and helping each other out not
> > hurting each other, us human beings.
> >
> > As I watch my baby daughter explore the world and learn, I see
every
> > day, what truly happened to these CSA's and how deeply they were
> > robbed of the MOST essential things in life.
> >
> > I pray for all of you who stay, and try and fight that dragon. May
> > light fill that endless night.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -JP
> >omg- ive waited so long for this type of exchange! i am beyond
words- i can only say AWESOME ! NOW WE ARE GETTING THERE!!!!! will
finish post when my tears of joy will let me see the keyboard.
>