I confess to not reading through your entire post, but I must jump in
to say I believe what you wrote is overly pessimistic.
I have been married to a CSA survivor for a couple of decades, and
we've had struggles, going back to when she first understood that the
weird things her stepfather did to her and her sister was -- that big
scary word she never before uttered in this context -- ABUSE.
But it did not destroy our relationship.
There is nothing sick or self-destructive in the fact that I love her
and choose to be with her. My own personal tale of stuggle and growth
in this process is not relevant here, and it's also equally useless
to compare the degree of abuse she suffered vs another's -- always a
losing game, comparing anyone's pain or loss with someoone else's.

I acknowledge that there are self-destructive relationships, and
there are those who are drawn to certain kinds of victims, a
variation of the "enabler" theories in addiction, and men and women
who choose partners with whom they will always have less than what
they could have elsewhere.

But some of us just fall in love, and as a consequence work to enrich
the lives of those we love (and our own).

I do agree that there are CSA survivors here along with us, and their
issues are different. Yet still, the wonderful -- and I use the word
quite deliberately -- thing about this group is that it's for the
partners. Many of us, myself included, and sought in vain for a non-
virtual group like this; there are a million for the survivors, but
apparently few, if any, for their partners.

In any event, I'm also someone who reads often (though I also drop
out for months or years) but posts infrequently. But I'm here to say
there can be plenty of hope and pleasure in a relationship with a
survivor. And don't forget there can also be plenty of grief and
betrayal and emptiness in a relationship between two "normal" people.

I make no judgment on the relationships of those reading this. But I
will say, with certainty, you are not doomed.

Daniel



--- In positivepartnersofsurvivors@yahoogroups.com, "JP"
<Brahmadomtao@...> wrote:
>
> Hey
> It's been a long time since I was on here. I haven't read any posts
> lately (in years perhaps)...
>
> For those of you new to the support group here, on line, my story
was
> pretty basic: ran into an incredibly interesting woman as a single
> young man, things went from wonderful with brief bouts of really
> strange behavior to hell on earth over 2 years as I came to learn
> about the severity of my, at the time, partner's mental and
emotional
> illness from CSA survival. I was a psychology student and teacher,
and
> I began to specialize in these particular kinds of cases in my
> learning. After a horrible breakup, the worst in my life, I
discovered
> exactly why people are called "damaged" and "broken" and why in
> psychology we have clinical terms for people who were robbed forever
> of a stable and safe entry and beginning in this life and on earth.
> The tragedy only became real when I realized there was "no cure" and
> "help" simply meant eventually she, if she lives long enough, can at
> least be comfortable with who she is and the destiny she has.
>
> while learning these things over the last 2+ years, I became a bit
of
> a voice for some very important things on this forum- simply that
new
> people on here believe some things about the internet that are not
true:
>
> 1) "There are no doctors in the house", so to speak. That means this
> is wide open to anyone. When I started on here I was working on my
> masters degree, and a few other people had some credentials, but the
> moderators are more often just that- people who have assumed from
the
> good will and personal motivations only known to them, to BE the
> people who CAN moderate this forum- to qualify for THAT in yahoo,
all
> you have to do is START a group, and you are the admin and
moderator.
>
> That also means that you have to take your advice and support here
> with a grain of salt. There are a LOT of ill people on line, and
this
> group is no different. Even many people in this group are victims
and
> CSA's who masquerade as PoS's. I advised that victims and CSA's
leave
> and that they are NOT welcome- after all it is a support group for
> PARTNERS of such people. One of the intrusive subtle battery issues
> when dealing with abused people is that they tend to know the
paradigm
> OF abusive ways, which means lack of respecting of appropriate
> boundaries. Understand? That means that this sort of a rule not only
> will be violated (and the sure sign of someone who continues to
> violate it is that they are a CSA and have social and
> personal/emotional/mental problems, so best ban or block them if
they
> keep coming back). I think it is CRITICAL that this forum be only
for
> partners, where we finally have a place we might be able to vent,
> express, and work out in some form, some kind of cathartic release
> from all the hell that PoS's have to deal with when one has choosen
to
> be or continue in some form of a personal relationship with a very
> damaged person for whom there is no fixing, only coping and some
> repair. Like living on the edge of a nuclear wasteland, one can get
> "irradiated" simply be over-exposure to the CSA perspective, outlook
> and belief paradigms. This OUGHT to be a safe place to come as a
PoS.
> Again, sure sign of someone who is a CSA is that they don't respect
> that and remove themselves from this forum.
>
> 2) There is no cure or fixing for a CSA. Even, society is what needs
> to be "fixed". Perhaps CSA's are simply there to teach us
compassion,
> empathy, boundaries, healthy relaitonship paradigms... I mean, if
you
> SURVIVE a relationship with a CSA, you're bound to either become
> horrible dysfunctional OR you'll have learned something even the
best
> psychologists in the world can not ever understand- what it REALLY
> MEANS to be disturbed, emotionally and mentally, from a 1st person
> perspective of living in and out, day after day, night after night
> with a CSA. That is priceless, and will teach you something
> incredible, for sure, regardless of the outcome. But again, there
is
> no cure as there is nothing "WRONG" with CSA's- they simply don't
know
> and can never be taught the things you were taught by example. IF
they
> COULD be taught, they could be CSA victims- the term itself is
> indictive of someone who was robbed of some of the most essential
> ingredients to life- that love is real, safe and respect is not a
word
> but a deed. On the day that a CSA returns whence we all came from,
> they will still not understand to the depth IN EXPERIENCE, though
> perhaps better than even the normal person who takes it for granted,
> what true safety and love really means and was all about. You can't
> change that or fix it, not until they invent a time machine to take
> you back in time. Fighting that truth is like pretending a one-
legged
> man can run and will grow his leg back. Sure, maybe it CAN happen,
but
> so far it never has- again that doesn't mean it WON'T, but in all of
> time, so far it hasn't. Believing too much in "there is a way to
> change this, there is a cure, there is a way to fix this, I can show
> them what love and trust and safety is all about" is a sure sign you
> need to learn more and begin to open your mind to the fact that this
> is partially WHY the CSA found you attractive and got involved with
> you. Harsh, but go take some classes and don't take it personal-
it's
> not, it's just life and how the mind works.
>
> 3) There IS hope. THERE IS HOPE.
>
> Again I will say it.
>
>
> THERE IS HOPE....
>
>
> But only for YOU. The CSA, if you walk away right now, and come back
> in 20 years, will still be doing almost the EXACT SAME THINGS they
are
> doing with you, but with someone new. Maybe they'll have more
> integrity (remember, integrity is being ok with who you are and what
> you do- a seriall killer with no remorse has more integrity than
> someone who regrets the act of killing, capice?). So they'll
probably
> be more COMFORTABLE with who they are, and if anything, really NOT
> appreciate any judgements about it- CSA's learn over time to remove
> themselves from people who measure them to some social standards, a
> lesson that has it's pros and cons (sociopaths adapt the same
> paradigm). But walk away now, and the truth is, you won't have
failed.
> Simply, you'll have removed yourself from the path of this person's
> life, and hopefully, from future similar encounters.
>
> I wasn't always an advocate of this, and of course, I wanted to
> believe anything other than what I learned. I cried and cried for a
> year, missing the brief moments of beauty and incredible promise. I
> came to learn that in all the studies done, in all the research on
> CSA's and the paradigm of lost innocence in infancy and youth, and
the
> depths of violation and betrayal that a CSA experiences, that by
> NATURE OF THE DEFINITION (what got you on HERE, this forum to begin
> with) is something that is carved in stone: if an adult, or someone
> over the age of roughly 9-14 years old shows signs of CSA
> victimization, then the odds are almost nill that this can ever,
EVER
> EVER EVER Change. Just like if you like to eat food or drink water.
A
> CSA likes what they grew up with, in a horribly twisted way -because
> it's what they know and it's safe. This is why CSA's gravitate
towards
> repetitive patterns and unhealthy people or people who need to
learn a
> bit better what healthy MEANS in real actions in relationship. A CSA
> is a teacher, in a negative way, about boundaries, love, compassion,
> empathy, and for YOU, self-respect. Self-respect is the ONE thing,
and
> the FIRST thing that a PoS looses, without realizing it. And then
they
> loose perspective, and until the bottom washes out, and they begin
to
> look for help (which can take a month, or decades) doesn't return.
>
> By your reaching out, you're asking, without realizing it, for
OPTIONS
> and PERSPECTIVE. A RETURN to normal, as you define it, a return to
> what YOU knew as an infant and a child, growing up -love and safety,
> trust and respect, nurturing, needs fulfilled, nothing twisted and
> converted and convoluted and made to hurt; a return to what is safe
> and comforting for YOU. That means, something has begun to want to
be
> healthy. That is REALLY GOOD NEWS!!! It means there is hope for YOU.
>
>
> So I went traveling, traveled the world a bit, gave up on
psychology-
> everything I read (and I read everything, maybe a few odd books here
> and there I only skimmed over, but I have over 600 psychology books
> and manuals I studied cover to cover, and 4 years of studying, even
> under some of the top teachers in the world on this subject)...
After
> some time and healing for myself, I rediscoverdd who I AM and what I
> wanted as a child and growing up, and what I needed in a
relationship
> with myself, and what MY dreams were.
>
> I met my spouse in the UK while traveling, and moved to the other
side
> of the world and started to work actively on making all my dreams
come
> true. It's happening day by day. I'm a father, a teacher, traveler,
> writer, designer and architect and I'm helping change the world in a
> place where things have a chance in a society that needs help.
>
> Not everyone is hurt or wounded, not everyone is damaged, not all
> things are beyond repair. Not every relationship is like a CSA, nor
> are all CSA's the same. But once we have been robbed of something
back
> in the past, in the formative years, it can not be recovered, only
> something close over time might replace it- but never can that void
> and childhood without it be revered or replaced. It is the KARMA of
a
> CSA and something they will have to learn to live with and cope
with.
> They are interesting and often vitally alive people, who walk the
> edges of places many of us wouldn't ever tread. But they are also
> often the most volitile and dangerous people, who will risk your
very
> life without even blinking an eye- endangering you to AIDS in the
most
> real ways, and other illnesses with their habits and patterns as
they
> seek out to relive and conquer their past, or at least feel like it
is
> normal- because it is normal for them, and chaos and pain and hurt
was
> something that became "safe" and "predictable" for them- the terror
> and torment become a comfort and something that one could rely on.
>
> In this way, a CSA is a different species than the rest of the
world.
> They are the victims of others like them, others who lacked the
> compassion and empathy that we are often guided to learn if we are
to
> survive being a PoS.
>
> There is help, for you and for them. But mostly for YOU.
>
> and if you walk away, hold you head high. You're alive, real, and
you
> have something special- you CAN live a healthy and happy life
without
> there things in it- 150%.
>
> Walking around the cities of this world I came to realize, WE REALLY
> CAN LIVE WITHOUT THIS STUFF. There are soooo many healthy, whole,
> incredible people on this earth who would NEVER be diagnosed with a
> term like 80-95% of CSA's would qualify for in a psychologists
office.
> The world is FULL of people who can love and be loved, trust and be
> trusted, believe and be believed in, who will come through and give
> sincerity with everything they are and have, who will not let you
> down, and who have the CAPACITY for a whole and healthy life, just
> like you. The world is FULL of people who can LEARN from their
> mistakes and RECOVER when they stumble, and pick THEMSELVES up, and
be
> COMPLETE and FREE-HUMAN BEINGS.
>
> And they are, in the end, far more interesting, in my opinion, than
> the tragedy of the CSA karma.
>
> I 100% stand behind the choice to leave and walk away from a CSA-
as a
> doctor and psychologist (though I don't practice, only write), it is
> even THE MOST HELPFUL THING you could EVER DO for most CSA's. You
can
> not change their fate- it was carved in stone, long before you came
> along.
>
> But you can change yours.
> And there is hope for you.
>
> The world is simply full of light and life and healthy people and
hope.
>
>
>
> ...
>
>
> I'm happy now, and living my dreams. It's not a fairy tale, but as
> close probably as one can come in the real world, with work and
effort
> and learning, changing and growing and helping each other out not
> hurting each other, us human beings.
>
> As I watch my baby daughter explore the world and learn, I see every
> day, what truly happened to these CSA's and how deeply they were
> robbed of the MOST essential things in life.
>
> I pray for all of you who stay, and try and fight that dragon. May
> light fill that endless night.
>
>
>
>
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -JP
>