There was an interesting article on developing new
pain meds in the Feb, 15, 2005 NY Times Science Times
section. See
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/15/health/15pain.html?
and a personal story called "When it comes to severe
pain, Doctors still have much to learn" at
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/15/health/15brod.html

Sorry, I don't have time to summarize them. Mary





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I just happened to look at WorstPills.org website and
see that Ultram  (TRAMADOL) & Ultracet (ULTRAM) are on
their DO NOT TAKE list of drugs.

They were listed "because it appears to be no more and
sometimes less effective than the combination of
codeine with acetaminophen. In addition, shortly after
the drug was approved safety warnings had to be added
to its professional product labeling, or “package
insert,” about the risk of seizure or convulsion with
its use and its ability to cause dependence. "

Another danger is using either of these drugs with
anti-depressants including ST. Johns Wort,  MAO
inhibitors or SSRI Drugs and causing serotonin
syndrome.

The symptoms of serotonin syndrome include: mental
status changes (confusion, mild degree of mania),
agitation, myoclonus (spasm or twitching),
hyperreflexia (reflexes are exaggerated), sweating,
shivering, tremor, diarrhoea, incoordination, fever.

SSRI drugs include: citalopram
(CELEXA),fluoxetine(PROZAC), fluvoxamine (LUVOX),
paroxetine (PAXIL), setraline (ZOLOFT)

This is important information to remember because
these drugs are frequently dumped on PAIN patients.



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So, what is it? I'd like to study it online -- thanks
for the info!

--- Mike Devaney <mdevaney1@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Group,
>
> I wrote a brief message a week or so ago.  I am a 47
> year old male who began
> to have, what I believe to be, severe sciatic nerve
> pain in my left leg,
> from my hip to my ankle beginning last January,
> 2004.  My belief that it was
> sciatic nerve pain came from internet research and
> talking to friends about
> it.  I have never seen a doctor, although it had
> gotten so bad by the fall
> 2004, in that it wasn't going away after a few weeks
> as it had before, I was
> considering it.
>
> In my message, I said that I had been pain free
> since the beginning of
> December.  Since I was still testing this new
> natural product I am using, I
> decided NOT to share the product's name with this
> group.  I am still
> testing, and I am still pain free, with no side
> effects.
>
> I have been reading this latest exchange on
> Neurontin.  And, if many of you
> have been on medication, or had surgery or are
> considering surgery, maybe
> this product will give you the relief I have been
> experiencing.
>
> Please let me test it for a few more weeks, before I
> share it with you all,
> because I don't want anyone who suffers to try
> something that doesn't work.
> And, just because it works for me, doesn't mean that
> it WILL WORK for you.
>
> But, since December 2004, I have been able to sleep
> without being awakened
> by pain.  I have been able to sit and watch a movie,
> drive for hours, and do
> everything I used to do before this horrible pain
> started last January.  I
> have only had some mild pain twice, the first lasted
> 2-3 days, and the
> second about a week.  But, the pain was so mild
> compared to before, I am
> very happy!!!  I have not lost sleep, nor been kept
> from doing the things I
> want to do.
>
> So, in a few weeks, by the middle of February, I
> will be comfortable enough
> to share my story and this natural product with the
> whole group.  I have
> become an independent distributor, simple because
> that's how you get the
> product.  But, my main goal is to help others who
> are suffering with sciatic
> pain, like I have been until recently.
>
> Thanks for listening,
> Mike Devaney
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Hello Group,

I wrote a brief message a week or so ago.  I am a 47 year old male who began
to have, what I believe to be, severe sciatic nerve pain in my left leg,
from my hip to my ankle beginning last January, 2004.  My belief that it was
sciatic nerve pain came from internet research and talking to friends about
it.  I have never seen a doctor, although it had gotten so bad by the fall
2004, in that it wasn't going away after a few weeks as it had before, I was
considering it.

In my message, I said that I had been pain free since the beginning of
December.  Since I was still testing this new natural product I am using, I
decided NOT to share the product's name with this group.  I am still
testing, and I am still pain free, with no side effects.

I have been reading this latest exchange on Neurontin.  And, if many of you
have been on medication, or had surgery or are considering surgery, maybe
this product will give you the relief I have been experiencing.

Please let me test it for a few more weeks, before I share it with you all,
because I don't want anyone who suffers to try something that doesn't work.
And, just because it works for me, doesn't mean that it WILL WORK for you.

But, since December 2004, I have been able to sleep without being awakened
by pain.  I have been able to sit and watch a movie, drive for hours, and do
everything I used to do before this horrible pain started last January.  I
have only had some mild pain twice, the first lasted 2-3 days, and the
second about a week.  But, the pain was so mild compared to before, I am
very happy!!!  I have not lost sleep, nor been kept from doing the things I
want to do.

So, in a few weeks, by the middle of February, I will be comfortable enough
to share my story and this natural product with the whole group.  I have
become an independent distributor, simple because that's how you get the
product.  But, my main goal is to help others who are suffering with sciatic
pain, like I have been until recently.

Thanks for listening,
Mike Devaney

Every person I have talked to who has taken this drug
says the same thing - it doesn't work for pain. While
they are taking the drug, some people say it helps a
little, but once they are off the drug, they always
say it didn't help. So I think it is more wishful
thinking then anything else.

The worst thing about neurotin is the slow mental
deterioration  it causes and the patient can't
recognoze it because the drug clouds your brain so
badly.

I can't believe doctors are still prescribing this
drug for pain. It just shows how doctors are totally
dependent on the drug industry for their information.
There was a big scandal about this drug & the
manufacturer bombarding doctors with false information
about  its effectiveness in treating numerous ailments
including pain.

But I guess doctors don't read newspapers or watch the
news. A few months ago, I heard a radio ad sponsored
by some law firm that was filing a class action
lawsuit against the manufacturer. They were looking
for patients, who had been prescribed this drug for
"off label" uses, such as Pain.

If you want more info about the scandal, see messages
# 621, 708, 894.

Bottom line - If you are taking Neurontin for pain,
the drug does more harm than good.



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Hi Kim,

I had awful side effects to Neurontin I was on it for about 5
months.  It was the fall of 2003. I could not remember things, words
(I speak 4 languages) nor make up my minding on anything. Taking a
shower became a big deal.  It was not until I got of the drug I knew
there were a snipers problem in Washington, DC.  After seeing all
the coverage all I could think was I had to have lived under a
rock.  What can I say the rock was called Neurontin for me.  I never
were able to take a strong enough dose to help the pain. If you are
starting to have side effects I strong recommend talking to your
doctor sooner than later.

The drugs I was put on after being taking of Neurontin by my
Neurologist were/are: Zonegran 200 mg in the morning, valium 2.5 mg
for muscle spasms as needed, Bextra 2 mg for inflammation, Darvocet
4 times a day for pain and at bed time I take Tizanidine 2 mg to 4
mg if I had a bad day.  Tazanidine has made the biggest difference
for me in calming down nerve pain at night time so I can sleep.

I hope this helps a little.  If you have any other questions feel
free to email me.

Carol

--- In piriformissyndrome@yahoogroups.com, "kim" <stormingdawn@y...>
wrote:
>
> Has anyone here had strange effects with Neurontin? My boss and my
> children tell me I've been acting slightly different for the past
> few weeks - humming, sometimes singing, talking quietly to myself,
> and having difficulty remembering the right word for things.
>
> For example right now I can't think of the right alternate word
> for "inconvenience". While that happens to everyone sometimes,
it's
> happened to me repeatedly over the past several weeks. AND I'M A
> FORMER ENGLISH MAJOR. Thankfully, my 11-yr-old daughter is really
> good at picking up on what I'm trying to say, and she
> even "translates" my monkey motions for my 10 year old son.
>
> The reason I ask about the neurontin is because my doc upped the
> dosage just after Christmas.  We're still trying to determine if
> it's helping or not, and every month we increase the dosage.
>
> So, any words on Neurontin?
>
> kim

Hi Kim,  I took Neurontin (Gabapentin) for 2 years and
it was a complete waste of time and money. I was
taking 600mg three times a day. If you do not see any
improvement in pain relief after three months (max)
then talk to your doctor about trying something else.
For me Neurontin was useless and also for a woman at
my place of work.
James.





  -- kim <stormingdawn@...> wrote:

>
> Has anyone here had strange effects with Neurontin?
> My boss and my
> children tell me I've been acting slightly different
> for the past
> few weeks - humming, sometimes singing, talking
> quietly to myself,
> and having difficulty remembering the right word for
> things.
>
> For example right now I can't think of the right
> alternate word
> for "inconvenience". While that happens to everyone
> sometimes, it's
> happened to me repeatedly over the past several
> weeks. AND I'M A
> FORMER ENGLISH MAJOR. Thankfully, my 11-yr-old
> daughter is really
> good at picking up on what I'm trying to say, and
> she
> even "translates" my monkey motions for my 10 year
> old son.
>
> The reason I ask about the neurontin is because my
> doc upped the
> dosage just after Christmas.  We're still trying to
> determine if
> it's helping or not, and every month we increase the
> dosage.
>
> So, any words on Neurontin?
>
> kim
>
>
>
>




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Has anyone here had strange effects with Neurontin? My boss and my
children tell me I've been acting slightly different for the past
few weeks - humming, sometimes singing, talking quietly to myself,
and having difficulty remembering the right word for things.

For example right now I can't think of the right alternate word
for "inconvenience". While that happens to everyone sometimes, it's
happened to me repeatedly over the past several weeks. AND I'M A
FORMER ENGLISH MAJOR. Thankfully, my 11-yr-old daughter is really
good at picking up on what I'm trying to say, and she
even "translates" my monkey motions for my 10 year old son.

The reason I ask about the neurontin is because my doc upped the
dosage just after Christmas.  We're still trying to determine if
it's helping or not, and every month we increase the dosage.

So, any words on Neurontin?

kim

Hi Mike, welcome.  I have been suffering with P.S for
5 years now and recently had surgery. There is a lot
of help and information available within the group if
you ever need it. What was it that you found to keep
the pain away ?
James.


> --- In piriformissyndrome@yahoogroups.com, "Mike
> Devaney"
> <mdevaney1@b...> wrote:
> > Hello Group!
> >
> > My name is Mike.  I have been having pain since
> February 2004, on
> and off.
> > Currently the pain has been off for about 4 weeks.
>  Hopefully I
> have found
> > something to keep it away!  But, if not, and it
> comes back, I'm
> going to
> > need this group.
> >
> > Thanks for being here.
> > Mike Devaney
>
>
>
>




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Hi Carol, good to hear you are making some progress.
Please keep us informed of the Tizanidine pain relief
and any side effects if any.

Thanks, James.

--- Carol <lakriskonfekt@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I hope everyone survived the holidays without to
> much pain.  Here it
> has been a mad house with too many relatives trying
> to help me out.
>
> An little update post surgery.  I had another follow
> up doctores
> appointment Tuesday and it went well.  I get to
> start physical
> therapy next Tuesday. Hurray!!
>
> My doctor is not sure if I will be able to handle it
> due to all the
> nerve pain. I have to put my foot down and say
> "nothing ventured
> nothing gained".  I told him I could always stop if
> it got to be to
> much and wait a little longer.  He seemed happy with
> that and I was
> happy to be moving forward.
>
> I have started on a new medication generic called
> tizanidine in mid
> December.  I take it at bed time and it has made a
> world of
> difference for me.  I'm able to sleep better and
> when I wake up my
> nerve pain is tolerable.  So fare so good.
>
> I will write with pt updates.  Until next time "keep
> smiling"
>
> Carol
>
>
>
>
>
>




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Carol - I really hope you can tolerate PT & make
progress.

Tizanidine is an interesting choice for drug. I've
been a big believer in muscle relaxants for a long
time. You are the first here to take this drug. So
again, please keep us updated on efffectiveness & side
effects.

I assume your doctor told you what symptoms to watch
for & that you are not taking  oral contraceptives, or
phenytoin (DILANTIN). According to  Worst Pills.org in
clinical trials, this drug caused hallucinations in 3%
of patients.They advise to assume that any new symptom
you develop upon starting a new drug may be caused by
the drug. If you have a new symptom, psychiatric or
otherwise, report it to your doctor.

Wishing you the best in 2005. Mary

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Hi Mike,

Welcome to the group :-) I hope your pain stays under control but if
it comes back we are to listen and share stories.

Happy New Year.

Carol

--- In piriformissyndrome@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Devaney"
<mdevaney1@b...> wrote:
> Hello Group!
>
> My name is Mike.  I have been having pain since February 2004, on
and off.
> Currently the pain has been off for about 4 weeks.  Hopefully I
have found
> something to keep it away!  But, if not, and it comes back, I'm
going to
> need this group.
>
> Thanks for being here.
> Mike Devaney

Hi Everyone,

I hope everyone survived the holidays without to much pain.  Here it
has been a mad house with too many relatives trying to help me out.

An little update post surgery.  I had another follow up doctores
appointment Tuesday and it went well.  I get to start physical
therapy next Tuesday. Hurray!!

My doctor is not sure if I will be able to handle it due to all the
nerve pain. I have to put my foot down and say "nothing ventured
nothing gained".  I told him I could always stop if it got to be to
much and wait a little longer.  He seemed happy with that and I was
happy to be moving forward.

I have started on a new medication generic called tizanidine in mid
December.  I take it at bed time and it has made a world of
difference for me.  I'm able to sleep better and when I wake up my
nerve pain is tolerable.  So fare so good.

I will write with pt updates.  Until next time "keep smiling"

Carol

Hello,

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Group!

My name is Mike.  I have been having pain since February 2004, on and off.
Currently the pain has been off for about 4 weeks.  Hopefully I have found
something to keep it away!  But, if not, and it comes back, I'm going to
need this group.

Thanks for being here.
Mike Devaney

I am out of the office, returning on Wednesday, 12/15. During that time
I will not have access to e-mail but will have limited access to voice
mail. If you have an urgent message for me please leave me a voice mail.


If you are a consultant seeking territory availability please contact
Joel Greene in our office at jgreene@... or 734-822-6215.

Happy Holidays,
Rob Goggins
Franchise Development Manager
Molly Maid
800-88-MOLLY (66559), x190
Fax: 734-661-0278
rdg@...
"Work less, live more"

Hello James

Great to hear that you're battling on to find an answer to your symptoms.

I also tried physio on repeated occasions, only to find that it made my symptoms
much worse.  It was like a vicious circle.  All I can say is that going to see a
Swiss Chiropractic was the best thing I ever did.

Scans do not always show up the problem.  I have had 2 MRIs in the last 18
months and both said that I still had screws in my vertebre which simply wasn't
true!

It's true that every one of each have different symptoms.  The most important
thing is to follow what your body is telling you.  Good luck in sorting the leg
problem out.  It's great to hear that your sitting tolerance is so much better. 
Keep us posted.

Joyce


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: james weber
   To: piriformissyndrome@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 3:44 PM
   Subject: Re: [Piriformis syndrome] Joyce - where are you?


   Hi Joyce,
   Good to hear you are okay and pursuing further
   explanations to diagnose your sciatic pain.
   In your letter you describe your faster recovery time.
   Since having surgery in April my recovery time is a
   lot less after sitting. Before the surgery once the
   pain was at a 10 it took overnight for it to settle
   down again. Now it takes maybe half an hour to settle
   down to a more tolerable level (2 to 3) so the surgery
   definitely helped. The area and symptoms have changed
   since the operation. I can now sit for much longer
   periods before I have to stand and "walk it off".

   Now the centre of discomfort is the back of the knee,
   before it was the hip and upper thigh at the back of
   the leg. The surgeon told me the next step is to look
   at the knee where the sciatic nerve passes through the
   knee joint. I am waiting for an MRI. Obviously my
   health history is different from yours, no back
   surgery and a blood clot in the same leg in 97. I have
   not given up hope of getting my life back to "normal"
   by having more surgery. I am sure that
   physiotherapy would also improve my situation but
   would not be enough by itself as I have already
   proved.
   I am hoping the upcoming MRI will possibly show where
   the problem lies.
   All for now, James.

   --- Joyce Zannoni <jaymzed@...> wrote:

   > Hello Mary and all
   >
   > Apologies for my absence.  I decided after much
   > thought to abandone the idea
   > of surgery - I was not convinced about going for the
   > surgery i.e.cutting the
   > tendon of the p muscle.   To be very brief,  I
   > decided to go back to see a
   > Chiropractic in Switzerland whom I had already seen
   > in June this year and
   > had been very satisfied with my progress.
   >
   > I had intense rehab over 12 days.  Visits were twice
   > daily with traction,
   > manipulation and massage.  It now seems that my
   > problems are all due to scar
   > tissue probably caused by a muscular injury before I
   > had L5/S1 fusion 3
   > years ago.  By having fusion, this only ascerbated
   > symptoms to such an
   > extent that my sitting tolerance was down to 15
   > minutes maximum before
   > extreme pain began.
   >
   > Through this last course of treatment, I have
   > absolutely no sciatic pain
   > whatsoever and am virtually free of all parathaesia
   > of the left leg.  I
   > still have problems in sitting for more than 20
   > minutes or so but my
   > recovery time is much faster now.  I have new
   > exercises to carry out and
   > must walk lots and lots.  Am able to do this without
   > any leg pain at all and
   > have been walking several miles a day without
   > difficulty.  I am absolutely
   > amazed at the progres I've made in such a short
   > time.  I have complete trust
   > in this Chiropractic as he has equipment that I have
   > never seen anywhere
   > before.  Indeed his father was a pioneer of
   > sacroiliac joint problems in the
   > early 1950s and was probably 30 years ahead of his
   > time.  A belief that the
   > body is a kinetic chain plays a huge role in
   > balanced mechanics.  In my case
   > the scar tissue had a detrimental effect on other
   > muscles in the area which
   > were compensating.  I have also been to see a
   > Podiatrist who has given me
   > insoles for my shoes as my pelvis was becoming very
   > twisted due to the scar
   > tissue shortening surrounding muscles, also
   > affecting the joints especially
   > the sacroliac joint.
   >
   > Mary, you will be especially appreciative of this
   > news as I know you are a
   > true believer in avoiding surgery.  In my case, the
   > fusion was never
   > necessary in the first place and I was completely
   > misdiagnosed.  Will keep
   > the group posted.
   >
   > A suggestion of anaesthetic and cortisone injections
   > into the localised area
   > of pain have been suggested but I don't know whether
   > I can convince the
   > welfare state here to give me this treatment.   If
   > I'm not successful in
   > getting these injections then its the next plane
   > back to Geneva.  My desire
   > to get my life back is too great!
   >
   > Joyce
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: "Mary Smith" <filmfest12@...>
   > To: <piriformissyndrome@yahoogroups.com>
   > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:57 AM
   > Subject: [Piriformis syndrome] Joyce - where are
   > you?
   >
   >
   > >
   > > We have not heard from you in a while. What is
   > going
   > > on with you?
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > __________________________________
   > > Do you Yahoo!?
   > > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My
   > Yahoo!
   > > http://my.yahoo.com
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > Yahoo! Groups Links
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   >
   >




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mary,
As you probably are aware the sciatic nerve is most
stretched when your leg is straight. Add in the
forward position of the trunk when sitting in a
recliner and the sciatic nerve is stretched even
further. If there is anything in the way in the knee
area ie in my case a possible cyst then that could
press on the sciatic nerve which is now stretched like
a piano wire when in the reclinig position. Also the
same is true to some extent when sitting in a normal
chair as the knee is bent at 90 degrees possibly
causing the nerve to rub against the cyst.
Having said that why does my pain get easier when
walking ???
James.

--- Mary Smith <filmfest12@...> wrote:

> James - Thanks for the update on your situation.
> Each
> case here is so difficult, and unusual. Yours is no
> exception.
>
> How long did it take you just to recover from the
> surgery & infection?
>
> Hope your upcoming MRI finds something.  Even if the
> nerve is entrapped in the knee area, would that
> explain your continued pain from sitting??
>
> Please keep us informed. And have a wonderful
> holiday
> season. Mary
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>


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James - Thanks for the update on your situation. Each
case here is so difficult, and unusual. Yours is no
exception.

How long did it take you just to recover from the
surgery & infection?

Hope your upcoming MRI finds something.  Even if the
nerve is entrapped in the knee area, would that
explain your continued pain from sitting??

Please keep us informed. And have a wonderful holiday
season. Mary

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Joyce - I am ecstatic about your therapeutic progress.
Results that good & that fast are infrequent in this
group.

You are right. I am relieved you didn't have the
surgery. Now in hindsight, we can see the piriformis
release surgery would have not done anything to
address your underlying problem and would have only
made your pelvic muscles more unbalanced. Not to
mention the additional scar tissue you would have
gained.

Keep up the great work and have a wonderful holiday
season! Mary

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Hi Carol.
Good to hear you are on the road to recovery.
The surgery I had in April took a long time to heal to
the point where I could "test" if the surgery was a
success or not. Sitting was a pain with or without any
sciatic nerve relief. An infection around week 3
complicated matters even further. My surgery was not
as extensive as yours. The surgeon removed blood
vessels (veins ?) that were attached and trapping the
sciatic nerve in the back of thigh area. No evidence
of the piriformis trapping the nerve was found during
the exploratory surgery. The surgeon was confident he
had found and fixed the cause of the sciatic pain when
sitting. He was partly correct and the surgery has
definitely helped but I am not giving up hope of
another surgery helping even further. The physio that
started about 4 weeks after surgery definitely helped
get me back in shape and was also good for the mental
aspect of recovery.
Good luck with your further recovery and please keep
us posted.
James.


--- Carol <lakriskonfekt@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> Sorry for taken so long to write sitting is not my
> strong side yet.
> It is now about a month since my surgery and I doing
> much better.
>
> Let me tell you this has not been a "fun" recovery.
> The 4 inch cut
> in my butt/hip didn't hurt compared to all the
> nerves waking up.
> For the first few weeks I would have 8 muscle spasm
> a day.  Which
> would felt something like when your leg falls a
> sleep and stats to
> wake up just multiply it by 10 or 20 for pain level.
>  This would
> last any ware from 10 minutes up to several hours at
> a time. On a
> positive note all other things regarding my recovery
> have been
> pretty good.  I have had to take several strong pain
> killers for
> several weeks.  Therefore my thinking and writing
> has not been the
> best.  I'm trying not to take them and my head is
> getting a little
> less foggy and I hope I make sense!!
>
> I'm down to 1-2 spasms a day and they are getting
> shorter each
> time :-))  I'm able to sit a little better now and
> have been out of
> the house a few times. It's good to leave the house.
> It get very
> boring laying on the same green couch watching tv
> all day!!   It's
> bad when you know the schedule for HGTV and Food
> Network!!  To many
> re-runs.
>
> I had to use a walker for the first 3/4 weeks and
> have now graduated
> to a quad cane.  Not sure when I will get rid of
> it!!  During my
> first follow up visit 11/4.  I was advised by my
> doctor that they
> would not start me on pt until the nerves/spasm got
> under control.
> That pt could do more damage due to all the scar
> tissue and how much
> cutting they had to do.  They are hoping to start pt
> in January and
> so am I.  I go back for my next follow up
> appointment on 12/7/04
>
> Regarding what they found when the doctor's did the
> surgery in
> simple terms:
>
> At one point or another during the last 3 1/2 years
> I have had
> internal bleeding. The doctors are not sure if it's
> from accident or
> a bad injection give 1 1/2 years ago. From all the
> internal bleeding
> scar tissue had formed.  The sciatic nerve had grown
> attached to the
> piriformis muscle and become one.  No wonder I felt
> everything was a
> pain in the a.. when I tried to move since
> everything moved
> together!!  What is hard to believe is nothing could
> been seen on
> all MRI's or CT scan's???
>
> Anyway I was under for close to 3 hours and they had
> to cut the
> piriformis muscle completely and scrap off all the
> scar tissue
> attached to the sciatic nerve.  Everything went
> well. When I woke up
> I was able to move my toes for the first time in
> over 1 1/2 years
> and within 24 hours I had full control of my big
> toe.  Being able to
> point and move my toes made several people cry in
> the recovery room
> when they hear the story.  I myself could not stop
> crying even
> though every body part hurt on one side. The only
> thing that went
> through my mind it's a miracle I can move my toes
> and foot again.
>
> I go for another check up tomorrow and will post
> more details
> later.  If you have any questions feel free to ask.
>
> Carol
>
>
>
>
>
>




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Hi Joyce,
Good to hear you are okay and pursuing further
explanations to diagnose your sciatic pain.
In your letter you describe your faster recovery time.
Since having surgery in April my recovery time is a
lot less after sitting. Before the surgery once the
pain was at a 10 it took overnight for it to settle
down again. Now it takes maybe half an hour to settle
down to a more tolerable level (2 to 3) so the surgery
definitely helped. The area and symptoms have changed
since the operation. I can now sit for much longer
periods before I have to stand and "walk it off".

Now the centre of discomfort is the back of the knee,
before it was the hip and upper thigh at the back of
the leg. The surgeon told me the next step is to look
at the knee where the sciatic nerve passes through the
knee joint. I am waiting for an MRI. Obviously my
health history is different from yours, no back
surgery and a blood clot in the same leg in 97. I have
not given up hope of getting my life back to "normal"
by having more surgery. I am sure that
physiotherapy would also improve my situation but
would not be enough by itself as I have already
proved.
I am hoping the upcoming MRI will possibly show where
the problem lies.
All for now, James.

--- Joyce Zannoni <jaymzed@...> wrote:

> Hello Mary and all
>
> Apologies for my absence.  I decided after much
> thought to abandone the idea
> of surgery - I was not convinced about going for the
> surgery i.e.cutting the
> tendon of the p muscle.   To be very brief,  I
> decided to go back to see a
> Chiropractic in Switzerland whom I had already seen
> in June this year and
> had been very satisfied with my progress.
>
> I had intense rehab over 12 days.  Visits were twice
> daily with traction,
> manipulation and massage.  It now seems that my
> problems are all due to scar
> tissue probably caused by a muscular injury before I
> had L5/S1 fusion 3
> years ago.  By having fusion, this only ascerbated
> symptoms to such an
> extent that my sitting tolerance was down to 15
> minutes maximum before
> extreme pain began.
>
> Through this last course of treatment, I have
> absolutely no sciatic pain
> whatsoever and am virtually free of all parathaesia
> of the left leg.  I
> still have problems in sitting for more than 20
> minutes or so but my
> recovery time is much faster now.  I have new
> exercises to carry out and
> must walk lots and lots.  Am able to do this without
> any leg pain at all and
> have been walking several miles a day without
> difficulty.  I am absolutely
> amazed at the progres I've made in such a short
> time.  I have complete trust
> in this Chiropractic as he has equipment that I have
> never seen anywhere
> before.  Indeed his father was a pioneer of
> sacroiliac joint problems in the
> early 1950s and was probably 30 years ahead of his
> time.  A belief that the
> body is a kinetic chain plays a huge role in
> balanced mechanics.  In my case
> the scar tissue had a detrimental effect on other
> muscles in the area which
> were compensating.  I have also been to see a
> Podiatrist who has given me
> insoles for my shoes as my pelvis was becoming very
> twisted due to the scar
> tissue shortening surrounding muscles, also
> affecting the joints especially
> the sacroliac joint.
>
> Mary, you will be especially appreciative of this
> news as I know you are a
> true believer in avoiding surgery.  In my case, the
> fusion was never
> necessary in the first place and I was completely
> misdiagnosed.  Will keep
> the group posted.
>
> A suggestion of anaesthetic and cortisone injections
> into the localised area
> of pain have been suggested but I don't know whether
> I can convince the
> welfare state here to give me this treatment.   If
> I'm not successful in
> getting these injections then its the next plane
> back to Geneva.  My desire
> to get my life back is too great!
>
> Joyce
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Smith" <filmfest12@...>
> To: <piriformissyndrome@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:57 AM
> Subject: [Piriformis syndrome] Joyce - where are
> you?
>
>
> >
> > We have not heard from you in a while. What is
> going
> > on with you?
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > All your favorites on one personal page - Try My
> Yahoo!
> > http://my.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>




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Hello Mary and all

Apologies for my absence.  I decided after much thought to abandone the idea
of surgery - I was not convinced about going for the surgery i.e.cutting the
tendon of the p muscle.   To be very brief,  I decided to go back to see a
Chiropractic in Switzerland whom I had already seen in June this year and
had been very satisfied with my progress.

I had intense rehab over 12 days.  Visits were twice daily with traction,
manipulation and massage.  It now seems that my problems are all due to scar
tissue probably caused by a muscular injury before I had L5/S1 fusion 3
years ago.  By having fusion, this only ascerbated symptoms to such an
extent that my sitting tolerance was down to 15 minutes maximum before
extreme pain began.

Through this last course of treatment, I have absolutely no sciatic pain
whatsoever and am virtually free of all parathaesia of the left leg.  I
still have problems in sitting for more than 20 minutes or so but my
recovery time is much faster now.  I have new exercises to carry out and
must walk lots and lots.  Am able to do this without any leg pain at all and
have been walking several miles a day without difficulty.  I am absolutely
amazed at the progres I've made in such a short time.  I have complete trust
in this Chiropractic as he has equipment that I have never seen anywhere
before.  Indeed his father was a pioneer of sacroiliac joint problems in the
early 1950s and was probably 30 years ahead of his time.  A belief that the
body is a kinetic chain plays a huge role in balanced mechanics.  In my case
the scar tissue had a detrimental effect on other muscles in the area which
were compensating.  I have also been to see a Podiatrist who has given me
insoles for my shoes as my pelvis was becoming very twisted due to the scar
tissue shortening surrounding muscles, also affecting the joints especially
the sacroliac joint.

Mary, you will be especially appreciative of this news as I know you are a
true believer in avoiding surgery.  In my case, the fusion was never
necessary in the first place and I was completely misdiagnosed.  Will keep
the group posted.

A suggestion of anaesthetic and cortisone injections into the localised area
of pain have been suggested but I don't know whether I can convince the
welfare state here to give me this treatment.   If  I'm not successful in
getting these injections then its the next plane back to Geneva.  My desire
to get my life back is too great!

Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Smith" <filmfest12@...>
To: <piriformissyndrome@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:57 AM
Subject: [Piriformis syndrome] Joyce - where are you?


>
> We have not heard from you in a while. What is going
> on with you?
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi Mary,

My doctor had to cut the whole piriformis muscle to release the
sciatic nerve.  He tried to take some pictures but they didn't turn
out well.  I would have loved to have seen what he called a "mess".
I will try to take a picture of the scar if you would like for show
and tell!!

My appointment went as expected today.  My doctor was very pleased
with the movement of my foot and so am I.  Only downside is still
the muscle spasms.  We hope when I go back on January 4th they will
be nearly gone.  If not I will be referenced to pain management for
them to check me out again.  We are hoping to start pt in January
but need the spasms to be under control first.  I really want to
start since I'm still not allowed to drive. This makes for
interesting Christmas shopping -- long live the internet, mail order
and my very understanding husband.

I will keep you posted.

Carol


--- In piriformissyndrome@yahoogroups.com, Mary Smith

<filmfest12@y...> wrote:
> Thank you for updating us on your condition &
> progress. It must be extremely difficult for you to
> even  make the effort to type. The discovery of the
> scar tissue adhering the nerve to the piriformis
> muscle is most interesting.
>
> Did they remove the piriformis muscle completely or
> just cut it enough to separate the muscle from the
> nerve?
>
> I hope your spasms stop soon. And  you feel well
> enough to  enjoy some of the holiday season. Mary
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
> http://my.yahoo.com

--- In piriformissyndrome@yahoogroups.com, Mary Smith
<filmfest12@y...> wrote:
> We have not heard from you in a while. What is going
> on with you?

Joyce is in Geneva, Switzerland seeing Dr. Illi at his chiropractic
clinic.  She will return to the UK Thursday, the 9th.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
> http://my.yahoo.com

We have not heard from you in a while. What is going
on with you?



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

Thank you for updating us on your condition &
progress. It must be extremely difficult for you to
even  make the effort to type. The discovery of the
scar tissue adhering the nerve to the piriformis
muscle is most interesting.

Did they remove the piriformis muscle completely or
just cut it enough to separate the muscle from the
nerve?

I hope your spasms stop soon. And  you feel well
enough to  enjoy some of the holiday season. Mary



__________________________________
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The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

Hello Everyone,

Sorry for taken so long to write sitting is not my strong side yet.
It is now about a month since my surgery and I doing much better.

Let me tell you this has not been a "fun" recovery.  The 4 inch cut
in my butt/hip didn't hurt compared to all the nerves waking up.
For the first few weeks I would have 8 muscle spasm a day.  Which
would felt something like when your leg falls a sleep and stats to
wake up just multiply it by 10 or 20 for pain level.  This would
last any ware from 10 minutes up to several hours at a time. On a
positive note all other things regarding my recovery have been
pretty good.  I have had to take several strong pain killers for
several weeks.  Therefore my thinking and writing has not been the
best.  I'm trying not to take them and my head is getting a little
less foggy and I hope I make sense!!

I'm down to 1-2 spasms a day and they are getting shorter each
time :-))  I'm able to sit a little better now and have been out of
the house a few times. It's good to leave the house. It get very
boring laying on the same green couch watching tv all day!!   It's
bad when you know the schedule for HGTV and Food Network!!  To many
re-runs.

I had to use a walker for the first 3/4 weeks and have now graduated
to a quad cane.  Not sure when I will get rid of it!!  During my
first follow up visit 11/4.  I was advised by my doctor that they
would not start me on pt until the nerves/spasm got under control.
That pt could do more damage due to all the scar tissue and how much
cutting they had to do.  They are hoping to start pt in January and
so am I.  I go back for my next follow up appointment on 12/7/04

Regarding what they found when the doctor's did the surgery in
simple terms:

At one point or another during the last 3 1/2 years I have had
internal bleeding. The doctors are not sure if it's from accident or
a bad injection give 1 1/2 years ago. From all the internal bleeding
scar tissue had formed.  The sciatic nerve had grown attached to the
piriformis muscle and become one.  No wonder I felt everything was a
pain in the a.. when I tried to move since everything moved
together!!  What is hard to believe is nothing could been seen on
all MRI's or CT scan's???

Anyway I was under for close to 3 hours and they had to cut the
piriformis muscle completely and scrap off all the scar tissue
attached to the sciatic nerve.  Everything went well. When I woke up
I was able to move my toes for the first time in over 1 1/2 years
and within 24 hours I had full control of my big toe.  Being able to
point and move my toes made several people cry in the recovery room
when they hear the story.  I myself could not stop crying even
though every body part hurt on one side. The only thing that went
through my mind it's a miracle I can move my toes and foot again.

I go for another check up tomorrow and will post more details
later.  If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Carol

I am out of the office, returning on Monday, 11/29. During that time I
will have limited access to e-mail. If you have an urgent message for me
please leave me a voice mail.

Happy Thanksgiving!!!

Regards,
Rob Goggins
Franchise Development Manager
Molly Maid
800-88-MOLLY (66559), x190
Fax: 734-661-0278
rdg@...
"Work less, live more"