I am very concerned with all of the accounts of people that have halos.  It

seems like it is the norm and not the exception to have them after ICL surgery.



I looked at the simulated photos that nannyboo99 posted under the Photos section

and that really scared me.  I can't imagine having to live with that type of

vision the rest of my life.



The main reason for me wanting to have ICLs in the first place was to get out of

glasses completely.  If I have to wear glasses all of the time at night or in

dark rooms than I'd rather pass on the surgery.



I am supposed to go in for my consultation where I get all the eye tests and

measurements taken and pay for the surgery in full this coming Thursday.  I'm

having serious second thoughts now due to all of the issues people seem to have

with halos.



My doctor said that my pupils are not overly large at 7 mm measured in the dark

and 6mm in the light.  He does not consider me at particularly high risk for

halos whatever that means.



I'm a night owl so my vision at night and in very dark rooms is very important

to me.  I need to be able to drive at night, watch television in my darkened

home theater, be able to go to movie theaters and spend a lot of time on my

computer using an LCD screen at night as well.



How bad are your halos on a scale of 1-10?  Do you notice them in any of the

instances I listed above?



I need to make a decision in the next couple of days to go through with the

surgery or give contacts one more try since it has been over a decade since I

wore them last.



Thanks again for any and all feedback!

PS--I would second the opinion that the folks you are hearing from here are

probably not an accurate statistical average.  If I had not been seeking help

for the halos, I never would have found this group. I think a lot of the folks

who had perfect results, probably don`t subscribe to this group as more times

goes by after their surgery. I could be wrong though.

Definitely read through the study on the FDA website. It has much more info than

what is posted on the Star/Visian site.

Also, ask to read through the consent form from your doctor ahead of time.  That

outlines the risks very clearly.

Sincerely,

Mary

To: piolusers@yahoogroups.com

From: sugarjay@...

Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 04:23:53 +0000

Subject: [piolusers] How bad are the halos?





















































       I am very concerned with all of the accounts of people that have halos. 

It seems like it is the norm and not the exception to have them after ICL

surgery.







I looked at the simulated photos that nannyboo99 posted under the Photos section

and that really scared me.  I can't imagine having to live with that type of

vision the rest of my life.







The main reason for me wanting to have ICLs in the first place was to get out of

glasses completely.  If I have to wear glasses all of the time at night or in

dark rooms than I'd rather pass on the surgery.







I am supposed to go in for my consultation where I get all the eye tests and

measurements taken and pay for the surgery in full this coming Thursday.  I'm

having serious second thoughts now due to all of the issues people seem to have

with halos.







My doctor said that my pupils are not overly large at 7 mm measured in the dark

and 6mm in the light.  He does not consider me at particularly high risk for

halos whatever that means.







I'm a night owl so my vision at night and in very dark rooms is very important

to me.  I need to be able to drive at night, watch television in my darkened

home theater, be able to go to movie theaters and spend a lot of time on my

computer using an LCD screen at night as well.







How bad are your halos on a scale of 1-10?  Do you notice them in any of the

instances I listed above?







I need to make a decision in the next couple of days to go through with the

surgery or give contacts one more try since it has been over a decade since I

wore them last.







Thanks again for any and all feedback!













































_________________________________________________________________

Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think Mary Wilson makes a good point! There is a bit of selection bias here in

the group for the reason mentioned. The only thing is, I simply don't trust the

data that the doctors give us. I'll give you an example: When I had PRK done on

the one eye, the doctor checked my vision using a Snellen chart, a standard

measure of visual acuity. Well, I could indeed read the 20/40 line (ie, tell him

whether it was an E or not), but the quality of that line was not good. He was

incredulous. Because I could "read" 20/40, he suggested I get the other eye

done. Well, it's been 15 years and the PRK eye (I had the IOL in the other eye

ultimately) after some 5 procedures later  is useless, all scarred up and hazed

over. But I can read 20/40! To the doctors, that's a success!



The same thing with the debate over pupil size and halos. My (subsequently new)

doctor said that there was no relationship between the two. Mind you, this is

one of the guys that testified before the FDA to get this thing approved in the

USA. How then, I asked, could he explain that Alphagan-P would help my vision at

night were it not for the miotic effect?? He just shrugged, from what I

remember.



My point is that doctors are human and they are not 100% objective. They are

very excited about this lens and the hope it offers people like us. They may

inadvertently turn a blind eye (yikes) to data that detract from their hopes for

success, as I truly believe my doctors have done, going so far as to simply not

believe the side effects I was having and, as it turns out, what others on this

group talk about.



While obviously many, many people are helped by this device, I firmly believe

that the successes, as the practitioners see them, are overrated. It means that,

while it is not a uniformly bad concept, it is at least a little riskier than

what you'll read in the informed consent. I'm sorry, but I really believe this

to be true.



At any rate, ask the doctor the real likelihood of problems should you decide to

get the lens and find out that you get halos or whatever and you want it out. If

s/he flashes you a smile and proclaims, "It's completely reversible!" I'd run. I

was told the same thing and, now that I have considered getting it removed,

everyone now says, "NO!". Maybe they just figured it out. Maybe they were hoping

to not have to deal with eventuality. I don't know. Now I can't see at night,

and I'm stuck.

And ask the doctor about the REAL limitations of post-ICL Lasik/PRK. Most

doctors I interviewed liked to confidently claim that ". . . . and if the ICL

slightly under- or over-corrects, we can always do Lasik/PRK to tweak it . . . .

"



The key word being "can", which is not the same as "will". I'm starting to get

the impression that the accuracy of the lasers and/or the uncertainty in the

cornea's healing process contributes to a lot of ICL docs talking their post-ICL

patients (who fall short of 20/20) out of Lasik/PRK.





--- In piolusers@yahoogroups.com, atlman9999 <no_reply@...> wrote:

>

>

> At any rate, ask the doctor the real likelihood of problems should

> you decide to get the lens and find out that you get halos or

> whatever and you want it out. If s/he flashes you a smile and

> proclaims, "It's completely reversible!" I'd run. I was told the

> same thing and, now that I have considered getting it removed,

> everyone now says, "NO!". Maybe they just figured it out. Maybe

> they were hoping to not have to deal with eventuality. I don't

> know. Now I can't see at night, and I'm stuck.

>

That was my experience.  I asked about the LASIK touch-up that my doctor

offered as part of the package deal, but he spoke as if I was being

greedy.  "You're already seeing 20/15.  What more can I do?"



"Clean up the astigmatism" would probably have been a good answer, but I

digress.  I think I'm with Bill -- I get the impression that PRK and to

a lesser extent LASIK have outcomes that are based on how your cornea

heals.  In other words, 'luck'.  It was the relative lack of 'luck'

involved in PIOLs that attracted me to them.



Of course, that was before I knew anything about halos.  Still, I don't

regret my decision, and I guess I was pretty 'lucky' with respect to

halos:  I see them, but only in extreme darkness.



Bill Lenihan wrote:

> And ask the doctor about the REAL limitations of post-ICL Lasik/PRK.

> Most doctors I interviewed liked to confidently claim that ". . . .

> and if the ICL slightly under- or over-corrects, we can always do

> Lasik/PRK to tweak it . . . . "

>

> The key word being "can", which is not the same as "will". I'm

> starting to get the impression that the accuracy of the lasers and/or

> the uncertainty in the cornea's healing process contributes to a lot

> of ICL docs talking their post-ICL patients (who fall short of 20/20)

> out of Lasik/PRK.

Hi-



I've only had one eye done so far.  I am on my 5th week after surgery (I have 6

weeks between my surgeries - that is abnormal, it just turned out given my work

and holiday schedule and my surgeon's schedule, it had to be that way). 

Anyway...



I can already see halos but not sure how bad they will be once both eyes are

done.  The doc told me that my eyes dialated to something like 7.2mm and the

lens was only 6.2mm wide.  He never seemed concerned that halos would be problem

for me.  I asked several times. But I can tell I will have them.



I hear everyone talk about the Alphagen drops which they use periodically if

they want to avoid the halos (for a night out, a movie, etc).  I ultimately went

forward with the surgery because the group's consensus it that even though many

of us have halos and glare, we would all do it again in a heartbeat.  And,

consider this - IF you do have to end up in glasses afterwards...they will be a

much better Rx and should be much lighter and smaller glasses.



As I said, I already have halos in the one eye...never had any before in

contacts...but so far, I wouldn't trade this surgery for anything.  The freedom

from contacts and glasses...being able to see the alarm clock, being able to

swim without fear of losing a contact in the water...even though I am still

using one contact daily, I have a taste of this freedom - I can watch TV without

the contact if I want!



Prior to my surgery I was -7.5 in both eyes and the doc said that fully

corrected the best I could ever see was 20/25 - he said I only had 95% vision

and that ICL doesn't always improve this.  At my 3 week checkup I saw 20/20 in

my corrected eye!  And I made out 3 of the 4 letters on the 20/15 line!



All I can say, is just ask your doctor again about halos and ask if he can

prescribe Alphagen for you if they become a problem for you.  Tell him your

concerns about your lifestyle (being a night owl).  And keep asking questions on

this blog.  Good luck!



Steph









________________________________

From: makurof <sugarjay@...>

To: piolusers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 5:23:53 AM

Subject: [piolusers] How bad are the halos?











I am very concerned with all of the accounts of people that have halos.  It

seems like it is the norm and not the exception to have them after ICL surgery.



I looked at the simulated photos that nannyboo99 posted under the Photos section

and that really scared me.  I can't imagine having to live with that type of

vision the rest of my life.



The main reason for me wanting to have ICLs in the first place was to get out of

glasses completely.  If I have to wear glasses all of the time at night or in

dark rooms than I'd rather pass on the surgery.



I am supposed to go in for my consultation where I get all the eye tests and

measurements taken and pay for the surgery in full this coming Thursday.  I'm

having serious second thoughts now due to all of the issues people seem to have

with halos.



My doctor said that my pupils are not overly large at 7 mm measured in the dark

and 6mm in the light.  He does not consider me at particularly high risk for

halos whatever that means.



I'm a night owl so my vision at night and in very dark rooms is very important

to me.  I need to be able to drive at night, watch television in my darkened

home theater, be able to go to movie theaters and spend a lot of time on my

computer using an LCD screen at night as well.



How bad are your halos on a scale of 1-10?  Do you notice them in any of the

instances I listed above?



I need to make a decision in the next couple of days to go through with the

surgery or give contacts one more try since it has been over a decade since I

wore them last.



Thanks again for any and all feedback!















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There's no way the lens optic (of today's ICL) is 6.2mm wide. The lens edge

maybe. This is why my question #2 goes to such lengths trying to educate the

prospective patient about the difference between edge diameter vs. optic

diameter. The later is what matters regarding halos.





--- In piolusers@yahoogroups.com, Stephanie Draper <steph_draper@...> wrote:

>

>

> I can already see halos but not sure how bad they will be once

> both eyes are done.  The doc told me that my eyes dialated to

> something like 7.2mm and the lens was only 6.2mm wide.  He

> never seemed concerned that halos would be problem for me.

> I asked several times. But I can tell I will have them.

>

--- In piolusers@yahoogroups.com, "makurof" <sugarjay@...> wrote:

>

> I am very concerned with all of the accounts of people that have halos.  It

seems like it is the norm and not the exception to have them after ICL surgery.

>

> I looked at the simulated photos that nannyboo99 posted under the Photos

section and that really scared me.  I can't imagine having to live with that

type of vision the rest of my life.

>

> The main reason for me wanting to have ICLs in the first place was to get out

of glasses completely.  If I have to wear glasses all of the time at night or in

dark rooms than I'd rather pass on the surgery.

>

> I am supposed to go in for my consultation where I get all the eye tests and

measurements taken and pay for the surgery in full this coming Thursday.  I'm

having serious second thoughts now due to all of the issues people seem to have

with halos.

>

> My doctor said that my pupils are not overly large at 7 mm measured in the

dark and 6mm in the light.  He does not consider me at particularly high risk

for halos whatever that means.

>

> I'm a night owl so my vision at night and in very dark rooms is very important

to me.  I need to be able to drive at night, watch television in my darkened

home theater, be able to go to movie theaters and spend a lot of time on my

computer using an LCD screen at night as well.

>

> How bad are your halos on a scale of 1-10?  Do you notice them in any of the

instances I listed above?

>

> I need to make a decision in the next couple of days to go through with the

surgery or give contacts one more try since it has been over a decade since I

wore them last.

>

> Thanks again for any and all feedback!







I think Mary is correct, people who have had halo problems are more apt to post

here than others who have no problems.



I am one who does not have any halo problems like others.

I do see a bit of fuzziness around such things as a led clock in a totally

darkened room,I like it dark when I sleep!



I have had no problems driving, I do have a bit of glare when looking at

streetlight.

it is not a problem and no worse than I had when I wore contacts and glasses.



My eyes are blue and have always been light sensitive.

I am the guy who is wearing sunglasses on a cloudy day.



It seems that almost any light causes my pupils to constrict enough to no be a

problem for me.



I had my surgeries in January and consider it the best thing I have ever done.



Was I nervous going in ? YOU BET !



If you aren't comfortable ask your doctor more questions before you proceed, get

the answers to your questions.



Good idea to make a list of your questions at home before you go in, that way

you won't forget.