On 2002-10-02 physical_immortality@yahoogroups.com said:
    >--- edmont@... wrote:
    >>   Dear Ponderers,
    >>        Many things have been suggested , from
    >> cloning ,to produce a
    >>  copy of oneself to downloading and transfering
    >> memories.
    >>        I , personally , would prefer not to
    >> experience any disruption to
    >>   my existence.
    >>        The only technology on the horizon that
    >> offers this possibility
    >>   is stem cell research , cloning and genomics
    >> research happen to
    >>   coincide with this.
    >>        Therefore knowledge from cloning and
    >> bio-informatics , coupled
    >>   with a few of the newer technologies seem to be
    >> the most relevant.
    >>        I'd prefer to have the ability to repair my
    >> body indefinitely,
    >>   from within , without loosing what makes me ,
    >> uniquely 'me'.
    >>   Yours Faithfully,
    >Edmont.
    >----------------------------
    >Aging and death begin with a certain attitude.  This
    >"I'm expiring" attitude has a picture of life attached
    >to it:  Life as an amusement park ride, with a rise, a
    >peak, a decline, and an end.  The idea, according to
    >this view, is to do your best to be happy under the
    >circumstances.  Deep within ourselves we know there is
    >a way, however, a way to perpetually ascend,
    >physically and mentally, with no peak, only rise.
    >With no end.
    >Our first step is to banish any thought of death from
    >our minds.  You are stuck here, on this earth forever.
    >What now?  The idea should relax you.  You can stop
    >rushing around, you can stop arguing with people, you
    >can stop thinking about your biological clock.  It was
    >all in your head.  You will be young forever.
    >For any object, friction is what erodes it.  How much
    >friction in life is created by the belief in death and
    >aging?  Reduce that and you'll find very little else
    >to erode you.  Help all those who you can and never
    >harm anyone intentionally and you'll be free of
    >another huge set of frictions.  Do what you want to
    >do, don't settle for anything below your potential,
    >and you will escape another set of frictions.  By
    >avoiding needless stress, we will thrive quite easily.
    >> Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Test Drive


Dear Lonehawk,

      How come you have most of the same beliefs as myself.

      You know , even the 'animal' part of me wants to do whats beneficial
  to others. Random acts of kindness have their place , even at that level.
      My apprehensions about things such as feline luekemia mean that I
physically distance myself from the animal kingdom.


      As an indirect consequence of the attitude you expound , I also
  have a desire to maintain my physical existence , forever ascending.
     Those that see a 'stagnation' in physical immortality most likely
  haven't expanded their horizons enough , even after what must be
  decades.


  Yours Faithfully,
                    Edmont.

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Test Drive

>In a message dated 10/2/2002 2:40:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
    >edmont@... writes:

    >>        Many things have been suggested , from cloning ,to produce
    >>a  copy of oneself to downloading and transfering memories.

    >How did you plan to transfer memories to the clone's neurons?  Why
    >not construct a new body completely from scratch, using
    >nanotechnology, or simply use nanotechnology to preserve your
    >current body indefinitely?

    >Michael Anissimov

    Dear Michael,

        I was , actually , questioning the validity of copying memories,
    as this seemed to be quite unlikely , certainly with our present
    technology and the original might still experience death.

        I am considering nanotechnology , however a few more developments
    in this area are necessary before they might , usefully , be
    applied to the bio-sciences.
        I do note that Craig.Venteer has an interest in USGenomics , this
    is just a starting point for the application of NanoTechnology to
    the biological science.
        There is at least one potential development , in nanotechnology ,
    that I want to keep track of ; apart from rapid genome sequencing.

        I've been reading a novel , about the application of nanodevices
    within the body , set in the near future this discusses the use of
    remotely programmable , molecular sized devices that interact with
    specific cells.
        As light of particular wavelengths and durations pass mostly
    unhindered through the body , this was being considered as being
    the way to alter the function of the nano-devices. If this didn't
    work I suppose there'd be other alternatives.
        Anyway these nano-devices could be remotely programmed to do
    a variety of tasks and were capable of entering specific cells
    or using the protein signalling pathway that exists within the
    cell to effect a desired change.
        I have yet to get to the part where the author discusses how
    these devices overcame the non-specific nature of blood flow ,
    I suppose he has some smart answer for that too!
        One of the main uses of this fictional technology was the
    repair of damage caused by oxidative stress , within the cell.
        There was also a self-destruct sequence that caused the
    nano-devices to breakdown into harmless components , that the
    body just assimilated or that were expelled in the usual way.


    Yours Faithfully,
                      Edmont.

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Test Drive

In a message dated 10/02/2002 2:30:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lonehawk23@... writes:

<<
  For any object, friction is what erodes it.  How much
  friction in life is created by the belief in death and
  aging?  Reduce that and you'll find very little else
  to erode you.  Help all those who you can and never
  harm anyone intentionally and you'll be free of
  another huge set of frictions.  Do what you want to
  do, don't settle for anything below your potential,
  and you will escape another set of frictions.  By
  avoiding needless stress, we will thrive quite easily. >>

I would posit that we need to watch what we eat, because eating the wrong
foods will definitely lead to disease.  Disease may not be death, but is not
pleasant.

--- edmont@... wrote:
>
>   Dear Ponderers,
>
>        Many things have been suggested , from
> cloning ,to produce a
>  copy of oneself to downloading and transfering
> memories.
>
>        I , personally , would prefer not to
> experience any disruption to
>   my existence.
>        The only technology on the horizon that
> offers this possibility
>   is stem cell research , cloning and genomics
> research happen to
>   coincide with this.
>
>        Therefore knowledge from cloning and
> bio-informatics , coupled
>   with a few of the newer technologies seem to be
> the most relevant.
>
>        I'd prefer to have the ability to repair my
> body indefinitely,
>   from within , without loosing what makes me ,
> uniquely 'me'.
>
>
>
>   Yours Faithfully,
                        Edmont.
----------------------------

Aging and death begin with a certain attitude.  This
"I'm expiring" attitude has a picture of life attached
to it:  Life as an amusement park ride, with a rise, a
peak, a decline, and an end.  The idea, according to
this view, is to do your best to be happy under the
circumstances.  Deep within ourselves we know there is
a way, however, a way to perpetually ascend,
physically and mentally, with no peak, only rise.
With no end.

Our first step is to banish any thought of death from
our minds.  You are stuck here, on this earth forever.
  What now?  The idea should relax you.  You can stop
rushing around, you can stop arguing with people, you
can stop thinking about your biological clock.  It was
all in your head.  You will be young forever.

For any object, friction is what erodes it.  How much
friction in life is created by the belief in death and
aging?  Reduce that and you'll find very little else
to erode you.  Help all those who you can and never
harm anyone intentionally and you'll be free of
another huge set of frictions.  Do what you want to
do, don't settle for anything below your potential,
and you will escape another set of frictions.  By
avoiding needless stress, we will thrive quite easily.
> Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Test Drive
>
>


__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

In a message dated 10/02/2002 5:45:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
darkvegeta26@... writes:

<< Subj:     Re: [physical_immortality] Immortality without death ?
  Date:  10/02/2002 5:45:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time
  From:  darkvegeta26@...
  Reply-to:  <A HREF="mailto:physical_immortality@yahoogroups.com">
physical_immortality@yahoogroups.com</A>
  To:    physical_immortality@yahoogroups.com

  In a message dated 10/2/2002 2:40:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
  edmont@... writes:


  >
  >        Many things have been suggested , from cloning ,to produce a
  > copy of oneself to downloading and transfering memories.
  >

  How did you plan to transfer memories to the clone's neurons?  Why not
  construct a new body completely from scratch, using nanotechnology, or
simply
  use nanotechnology to preserve your current body indefinitely?

  Michael Anissimov

   >>
Sounds good to me!

Judy
editor/founder/designer
<A HREF="http://www.RawFoodsNews.com">http://www.RawFoodsNews.com</A>
An online newsmagazine featuring authoritative info, breaking news, and fun
interactive features on the raw vegan lifestyle.  * Rated Number 1 in the
Webseed Directory's most interesting sites list, based on how many articles a
person looks at in any one visit. * Reviewed in the November 2001 Writer's
Digest. * See what people are saying about Raw Foods News:
http://www.fastcompany.com/fast50/profile/?pokras252

Dear Ponderers,

        Many things have been suggested , from cloning ,to produce a
  copy of oneself to downloading and transfering memories.

        I , personally , would prefer not to experience any disruption to
   my existence.
        The only technology on the horizon that offers this possibility
   is stem cell research , cloning and genomics research happen to
   coincide with this.

        Therefore knowledge from cloning and bio-informatics , coupled
   with a few of the newer technologies seem to be the most relevant.

        I'd prefer to have the ability to repair my body indefinitely,
   from within , without loosing what makes me , uniquely 'me'.



   Yours Faithfully,
                       Edmont.

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Test Drive

http://robert-ray-hedges-is-taking-over-the-internet.1hwy.com

truth happens

Please don't delete this file, as I have submitted it to several
search engines and a deletion will break the link!

  [[[[ It's for the children!!! ]]]

Robert Ray Hedges is taking over the internet Physical Immortality

Just to prevent your death! Isn't this just a wonderful Destiny?!

Your negative responses to me (inclusive of no-response) will be
posted at http://www.istopdeath.com/barked.txt
Just to show the children of earth exactly how unloving the "breed
to kill" types are and a few other types!

This is REALLY fun:
The Prophecy Fulfillment Becomes...

Mortality Resolution International
The International Physical Immortality Project
"Shall we stop Killing all children yet?"
And now a word to seach engines: (forgive me)
Robert Ray Hedges is taking over the internet
how to take over the internet
i am taking over the internet
istopdeath.com
virtuebios
Destinial Engineer
angeloveternity
superhumanity
right use of will
coordinated universal intent
how to take over the internet
when to take over the internet
Childrens Immortalisation Network
Indigo Immortals
Indigo Children Clarified
Education: Immortalisation
psychic police
who is taking over the internet
ground zero of the paradigmal
Destinial Engineering deepheartmeant
truthlove
farthetime
the eternis
veritas amorous eternis
mom said i could play
As Elvis said "Thank you very much!"
And Oh!, by the way, I NEED YOUR LIFE, PLEASE!
http://robert-ray-hedges-is-taking-over-the-internet.1hwy.com
http://www.istopdeath.com/mva.jpg

This is ridiculous
--- Ben  <lovechrist7@...> wrote:
> <a
>
href="http://www.alexchiu.com/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=lovechrist">
> <img src="http://www.alexchiu.com/affiliates.gif"
> alt="Immortality"
> border="0"></a>
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

<a href="http://www.alexchiu.com/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=lovechrist">
<img src="http://www.alexchiu.com/affiliates.gif" alt="Immortality"
border="0"></a>

I just recieved this free rings in the mail today that claims
immortality. If i feel any younger i might buy the stronger versions.
I assume you've all heard of alex chiu?? Here's an american inventor
who made magnets which harness youth. This website even shows you how
to make your own!!

Here it is! you wont be disappointed!

http://www.alexchiu.com/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=lovechrist

http://www.istopdeath.com

Robert ray Hedges
Sedona Arizona

So, You think your intention belongs to you......

good luck

With what intent?
--- edmont@... wrote:
>
> On 2002-09-18 physical_immortality@yahoogroups.com
> said:
>    >http://brain-storm.gq.nu
>    >robert ray hedges is taking over the internet
> thank you very much
>    >PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY RESPECT VIRTUEBIOS RIGHT
> USE OF WILL
>    >how to take over the internet prophecy
> fulfillment most important
>    >website ever on the internet the ultimate
> website istopdeath
>    >destinial engineering engineer paradigm2000
> yaah00 i am taking over
>    >the internet
>    >etc
>    >Robert Hedges
>    >Sedona Az
>    >Sept 13th, 2002
>    >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>    >---------------------~--> Sell a Home with Ease!
>
>
>http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/OnSolB/TM
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>    >-~->
>    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.
>    >com/info/terms/
>
>
>   DeAr Mr.Hedges,
>
>       What are you going to do with the internet ,
> once you have it.
>       Do you intend to use it as one great big
> distributed computer.
>
>       I'd like to have some use of the internet
> also.
>
>
>   Yours Faithfully,
>                     Edmont.
>
> Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Test Drive
>
>


=====

http://www.istopdeath.com


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

On 2002-09-18 physical_immortality@yahoogroups.com said:
    >http://brain-storm.gq.nu
    >robert ray hedges is taking over the internet thank you very much
    >PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY RESPECT VIRTUEBIOS RIGHT USE OF WILL
    >how to take over the internet prophecy fulfillment most important
    >website ever on the internet the ultimate website istopdeath
    >destinial engineering engineer paradigm2000 yaah00 i am taking over
    >the internet
    >etc
    >Robert Hedges
    >Sedona Az
    >Sept 13th, 2002
    >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    >---------------------~--> Sell a Home with Ease!
    >http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/OnSolB/TM
    >--------------------------------------------------------------------
    >-~->
    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.
    >com/info/terms/


   DeAr Mr.Hedges,

       What are you going to do with the internet , once you have it.
       Do you intend to use it as one great big distributed computer.

       I'd like to have some use of the internet also.


   Yours Faithfully,
                     Edmont.

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Test Drive

http://brain-storm.gq.nu
robert ray hedges is taking over the internet thank you very much
PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY RESPECT VIRTUEBIOS RIGHT USE OF WILL
how to take over the internet prophecy fulfillment most important
website ever on the internet the ultimate website istopdeath
destinial engineering engineer paradigm2000 yaah00 i am taking over
the internet

etc

Robert Hedges
Sedona Az
Sept 13th, 2002

--- In physical_immortality@y..., <edmont@f...> wrote:
>
>   Dear Correspondents/Immortalists,
>
>    Though lofty ideals aren't to be discouraged , I do feel that
>   on occassion our feet aren't firmly upon the ground.
>    To help regain some focus , and show that politics need not
>   permeate every aspect of Scientific Research , I'm outlining
>   a possible experiment , that even an under-graduate might
>   attempt. Without an ethical review board being involved ,
>   if he/she only uses species other than human in their
>   investigations.
>
>
What is this experiment exploring, exactly?

Incidentally, I believe that cell cultures can never be immortal
because they lack a true system, i.e., a mind.  They lack a happy,
flourishing organism within which each cell can choose to reproduce
flawlessly (ie, without breakdown).

This may not address your issue at all, though.
Please explain in layman's terms what your experiment intends to
demonstrate.

Dear LoneHawk23,


      This is all very interesting , and provides one
    interpretation of the world.

      Whenever people begin to quote Quantum Mechanics as having
    immediate relevance in the macroscopic world , I become a
    little weary.
      There are alternatives that also provide insight into the
    sub-atomic , one of these that has withstood the test of time ;
    is that proposed by the Quantum Apostate , David.Bohm.

      No one has a complete comprehension of Quantum Entanglement.
      In this scenario , how you measure the results of an experiment
    determines the outcome.
      Taking this to one extreme , this means that how you interprete
    the world , through your apriori process , determines what the world
    'is' .
      This conclusion might of been reached without invoking Quantum
    Mechanics.

      Hence I wonder if the social climate that produced Heisenbergs
    Quantum Mechanics has tainted our ability to perceive the world,
    as it really is , or as we'd prefer it to be.

      I do believe , after a lifetime of experience , that morals
    are part of a normal persons apriori makeup.



   Kind Regards,
                   Edmont.




Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Test Drive

Most Westerners believe they only leave one corpse.

While some imagine an "afterlife" or a "reincarnation" in conformity
with this or that religious tradition, others believe consciousness
just ends--just goes out like a light.

Those who believe that life just goes out like a light probably fear
death more than anything else. If they're suicidal, they see death as
a form of escape--an escape from a painful somethingness into
nothingness.

But even if someone believes in an afterlife or a reincarnation, he
still usually fears death quite a bit, simply because of the huge
change he thinks it involves.

Historically, once death was regarded as either a huge change or an
ending, the medical field flourished (i.e., the study of how to keep
from leaving a corpse through disease or injury), the pursuit of
happiness became central and, political science became the most
important "philosophical" movement (i.e., the study of how a society
can be formed that brings the greatest happiness to the greatest
number and leaves the least amount of corpses).

(Quick note: the pursuit of happiness became central because having
only "one life to live" made it a veritable crime to waste any
smidgen of it wallowing in displeasure.)
And imagine the fear! Well, you don't have to imagine it. You,
reader, feel this fear. The fear of death.

It is quite absurd, since there is no way to notice when you die
aside from the occasional brush. And those who preach caution in the
name of a long life are even more absurd when viewed from the
perspective I've put forth here. As I hope you all can see--though I
doubt you believe me--you have all died countless times. And each
time, the "afterlife" or the "reincarnation" was nothing more than
your life continuing in a parallel universe.

This idea--stumbled upon by Quantum Physics--is the hidden (and I
suspect forgotten) underpinning of all religions in their original
forms.

It is what Christ was trying to teach (or remind those who forgot)
but could only find opaque allegories to convey.

Every religion in its original form arose to show you the importance
of nothing but the present moment.

Every religion in its original form arose to show you that you live
on after death or, as some say, after countless deaths. The idea was
to keep you from worrying about your safety; to keep you from
devaluing the present by believing (erroneosly) that an inevitable
end will come. That is, to keep you in life now by realizing its
infinite quality. Why? Well, there is one reason: humanity functions
much better that way. But there is another more important reason:
BECAUSE IT'S TRUE!!!.

(more to come)

First off, let me make it clear that "leaving a corpse" has nothing
to do with murder of any kind.

I am speaking rather of suicide.

If you can grasp the idea that every moment of life carries with it
the possibility of dying, then you're getting a glimmer of what I
mean.

Another way of saying the above is to say that every moment you spend
alive is possibly suicidal. Suicide, that is, defined loosely
as "knowingly or unknowingly acting in a way which get's oneself
killed." Each action has this character.

Add to that action a bit of carelessness or recklessness and that
possibility increases.

Though everything I'm saying admits of degrees, the basic idea is
undeniable. To live -- in any way shape or form -- to merely exist in
time -- is to commit a kind of suicide, simply by the fact that
existence can change to non-existence at any given moment.

There have been certain individuals in history who have stumbled onto
this little truth without understanding the entire situation, the
most renowned example in recent years being Howard Hughes. This
wealthy man became obsessed with keeping germ-free. He understood
that every minute of existence harbors the potential of being
infected and so he, in a sort of horrific realization of my idea,
sought to protect himself.

What H.H. didn't realize is that there IS NO WAY to protect oneself
from the fact I'm pointing out. The only way to feel at ease is to
understand certain further principles in addition. Principles that
the ancients knew -- indeed still know (you'll understand what I mean
when I finish). Principles which today's physicists are just now
blindly stumbling onto.

The basic assumption of these further principles is the "many worlds"
thesis, i.e., the idea that the universe is not a singular event
occuring in a linear fashion through time, but rather a multiplicity
of possibilities all existing equally SIDE BY SIDE!

The universe WE inhabit certainly has the appearance of singularity
and linearity. But this appearance is -- as Kant suggested -- merely
a feature of our perception system. It is imposed on the world -- a
convenient heuristic that gives some order to our stimuli. A
heuristic however, that, having been taken as a feature of the world,
is now suffocating us, making us miserable at times, and filling us
with needless fear on a regular basis.

In truth, every possibility is manifesting simultaneously. Every
possible permutation of reality is occuring right now! Quantum
physics assumes this and has employed the assumtion to make solid,
verifiable predictions. Predictions which continually lead to
technological breakthroughs, one of which is the quantum-computer. A
computer which will greatly surpass its predecessors in speed and
memory by having access to every possible world at once.

So what is the upshot of the idea of "many worlds" or "possible
universes"?

What happens when you commit suicide? Either knowingly or
unknowingly? What happens when you are killed by a bomb, disease, or
a murderer?

I'll tell you, but can you guess?

Well, the answer is not death. That's right! Death cannot happen to
you. What happens is that your corpse will inhabit a possible
universe (a poss-u) that no longer contains you proper. In that
universe (and in an infinite number of other universes), your funeral
proceeds, your loved ones weep and your corpse is buried. Meanwhile,
simultaneously, you--the waking "live" you--will exist in a universe
(indeed, in an infinite number of universes) in which you live on. In
some of these, you didn't even try suicide. In others, you tried and
failed and are perhaps crippled. But the important point I'm making
is that you will never find yourself dead.

This last paragraph describes--in the best way today's words
(developed under the psychosis of believing in a singular possible
universe) can describe--what I mean by "leaving a corpse."

If you've ever experienced a "brush" with death, you got a
particularly concentrated taste of what I'm talking about. But in
truth, you leave corpses all the time. And the more risks (as they're
called, though there is no true risk involved--aside from being
maimed, and even this possibility can be reverted, but more on that
later) you take, the more corpses you leave. That is, the more you
take life-threatening risks in this universe, the more possible
universes you create in which you have been replaced by a corpse.

The fact is, you are constantly dying in this way. But since you
always go into the poss-u in which you live on, you only experience
the "brush" with death or "living on," i.e., no change at all.

(more later)

Immortality means infinite time on earth.  Infinite
time means:
1) Ultimate patience -- no need to rush.
2) No regret, no fear of faliure -- acknowledged
mistakes are the means to self-improvement, nothing
more nothing less.
3) No need to for immorality (lying, cheating,
stealing, hurting others, etc.) -- the need for such
behavior is always predicated on the false notion that
"life is short, so you gotta get yours."

What else does infinite time mean? (please add to
list)
--- Shasta4737@... wrote:
> Hi Lonehawk,
> I really like your recommendations for immortality.
> I would add a few more:
> 1.  Say this to yourself at least five times, three
> times a day -- "Every day
> I am growing younger, and younger in physical and
> mental capacity.  My body
> and mind are a healthy 30 years of age"  (unless you
> are younger than 30;
> then say your present age).  This is a variation of
> a meditation by Dr.
> Deepak Chopra.  When you say this, don't even try to
> believe it -- just let
> the thought enter and pass through your mind.  I try
> to do this with thoughts
> of health and vitality also.
> 2.  Try not to become rigid, narrow-minded,
> opinionated, or jaded.  Keep up
> with what is new; I even try to see what is going on
> on MTV, this is a hard
> one for me!  I believe we can be wise and still
> fresh and open-minded about
> new things. Never lose appreciation for the wonder
> and newness of life!  Very
> often try to do something risky to shake yourself
> up!
> 3.  Try behaviorism.  Fake smiling sometimes even if
> you don't feel like it
> -- I believe it really can start to influence me to
> be happy.
> Good luck staying young!
> Shasta
>


__________________________________________________
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Dear Correspondents/Immortalists,

    You maybe interested in this item of news , that I downloaded
   recently.

   Yours Progressively,
                           Edmont.


    ======================================================================


  This item of news from :

    http://www.stemcellresearchnews.com/

    Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:38:29 GMT


  AMID all the hand-wringing over embryonic stem-cell research, an alternativ
e
line of inquiry that avoids the moral quandary has been ignored, says a
member of the executive committee of the National Stem-Cell Research Centre
headed by Alan Trounson.
  The University of Adelaide's professor of biochemistry, Peter Rathjen, said

yesterday the process of dedifferentiation would detour the ethical dilemmas

of embryonic stem-cell research.
  But in the "hysteria" over the embryonic stem-cell research bill, and the
distraction over whether Professor Trounson misled federal MPs, the debate
had lost sight of the power of science to overcome as well as create moral
hurdles, Professor Rathjen said.

  The National Centre for Stem-Cell Research was due to open on October 1,
but the federal Government is now reviewing its $46 million funding because
of Professor Trounson's misleading use of a video of a rat in the briefing.
  The centre's executive committee met last week to prepare the scientific
program if and when money is released -- including dedifferentiation.

  "This is precisely one of the areas of interest to the centre, precisely
because it is a way of overcoming the immuno-rejection issue and the ethical

issue," Professor Rathjen said.
  "The stem-cell centre is doing a lot of research that people would support
that hasn't got out."
  Dedifferentiation involves taking an adult cell from perhaps skin or blood,

and reversing its development to create stem-cells without an embryo.
  Scientists would then grow and differentiate the stem cells into the type o
f
cells required to be transplanted.
  "Everyone knows what we are hoping to do with cell therapy -- taking cells
outside the body and transplanting them. How do you overcome human rejection
?
  Using dedifferentiation," Professor Rathjen said.
  It was time for "hardcore, basic research" to test dedifferentiation, even
to work out how and why it works.
  "A stem-cell centre will enable Australian researchers to compete properly
in this area of stem-cell research where we are probably starting to lag a
bit," Professor Rathjen said.
  Professor Trounson was forced to apologise when it was revealed last month
that a crippled rat in the video had not been cured with embryonic stem cell
s,
as he had claimed. The rat, instead, had been treated with germ cells taken
from five- to nine-week-old aborted fetuses.



Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Test Drive

Dear Correspondents/Immortalists,

    Though lofty ideals aren't to be discouraged , I do feel that
   on occassion our feet aren't firmly upon the ground.
    To help regain some focus , and show that politics need not
   permeate every aspect of Scientific Research , I'm outlining
   a possible experiment , that even an under-graduate might
   attempt. Without an ethical review board being involved ,
   if he/she only uses species other than human in their
   investigations.

    This is very much a tentative outline and may require
   considerable revision.

    I hope I posted this message , intended for all of the Yahoo,
   immortalist/cloning group , in the right way.


   Regards,
                      Edmont.


  ===========================================================================




                                Experiment 1
                              -----------------

  Aim:
        To determine the factors involved in the re-programming of
       a differentiated adult cell to the developmental stage of an
       Embryotic Stem Cell.

  Apparatus:

        High resolution microscope , possibly binocular.
        Micro-pipette , with mechanical positioning.
        Incubator , thermostatically controlled.
        Cellular growth medium , suitable for culturing ESC's.
        Various dyes , specific to particular cellular organelles.
       and cell types.
        Protein analysis equipment , electrophoresis or advanced.
        Centrifuge , or other method of isolating cellular fractions
       *Gene Chip[s] , possibly used to examine the genetic profile
        at various stages of re-programming , or development.

  Material:

        Embryotic Stem Cells [ ESC's ] , in the first instance from a
       species like Xenopus [  Giant African clawed tree frog  ].
        Differentiated Cells from an adult Xenopus.

  Method:

        The Xenopus ESC's are incubated at the appropriate
       temperature and in a medium suitable for their development.
        From a large number of these ESC's , the ooplasmic material
       is removed ; excluding the chromosome.
        Now particular fractions , from the ooplasmic material are
       isolated through the application of the centrifuge and other
       methods.
        These fractions are carefully labelled and stored in the
       necessary manner for their preservation.
        Small amounts are used from these , in various combinations,
       to [ hopefully ] determine the active components involved in
       cellular re-programming.
        Using the micropipette a specific combination of extracts
       from the oocyte are inserted into a specific adult cell ,
       from the Xenopus.
        Computerized records help keep track of the combinations
       and results.
        The adult cells, that have undegone ooplasmic transfer, are
       cultured in a suitable medium and at a suitable temperature
       for the necessary amount of time.
        Dyes are used to determine the type of cell that has resulted
       from the ooplasmic transfer.
        When a result indicates that an Embryotic type is present ,
       this is cultured for an extended period of time.

        After referring back to the particular combination that
       produced these results , a small amount , from the stored
       vial, is analyzed more extensively.

        Repeat , using only the compounds found in the vials that
       produced the favorable result[s].


  Comments:

        Ooplasmic transfer has been shown to be effective in
       re-programming a differentiated adult cell.
        This is just an extension of what I assume the methodology
       might involve.

        One of the crucial aspects of this experiment is the
       identification of the components of the ooplasmic material
       and the maintainance of this viability , during the
       fragmentation.
        The experimental tolerances involved aren't known at this
       time.

        This approach should be quite successful in isolating the
       active component , this is essentially a binary search.
        Identification and possible synthesis of the active component
       would be performed elsewhere.

        Once the feasibilty of this approach has been established ,
       then a different species might be examined.
        Of particular interest is the possibility of a substance that's
       similar for most all species.
        If this does appear to be the instance , then a cross-species
       test might be performed .

                   -------------------------------------

        Eventually the identification of the factor for humans might
       be performed. This would however , require the use of human
       adult cells and ESC's.

References:


        Ooplasmic transfer has been used , quite sucessfully, with
      In Vitro Fertilization , an internet search will provide details.
        Advanced Cell Technology mention this as one approach to producing
      clones , visit there website for further information.


                ---------   Ooplasmic Transfer   ----------

      New England Journal of Medicine. Vol 346 , issue 10, Mar 7 , 2002,
     Pages 773-775.

      Trends in biotechnology. Volumne 19, issue 10 , 1 October 2001 ,
     Page 381.

      Mitochondria in Human offspring derived from ooplasmic
     transplantation.

       Human reproduction. issue 3, March 2001 Pages 513 - 516 .

    Mitochondrial DNA heteroplasmy after human ooplasmic transplantation.
     Fertility and Society . Volumne 76 , issue 3 , September 2000.
    Pages 573 - 578.

     Spontaneous and artificial changes in human ooplasmic mitrochondria,
      Human reproduction ( Oxford , England ) Volumne 15 , Supplement 2,
     July 2000 , Pages 207 - 217 .

      Ooplasmic transfer in mature human oocytes .
       Molecular human reproduction. Volumne 4, issue 3 , March 1998,
      Pages 269 - 280.

                    ------------------------------------


Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Test Drive

Clarity is always helpful to the open minded evolving humanoids....

Rbt,
Sedona
Sept 9, 2002

1) Be a good person.
2) Avoid stress.
3) Excercise moderately.
4) Choose an artistic talent and develop it
gradually until you become a master.


Those are my recommendation.

Here's my question:

Is it better not to associate with people who believe that death is
inevitable?  Won't you eventually have to either get away from or
convert them?

Has anyone read "Jitterbug Perfume"? The problem I'm referring to is
treated there.  A man and his wife (who've decided to never die)
can't stay in one community for mor than 20 years (max) because they
begin to be despised for their uncanny ability to stay young.

Dear R.Hedges,

      On April  2nd , of this year , my father passed away , he
    professed to being an atheist ; though he was shackled with
    beliefs from the past and was ranting about Lord of the Rings,
    in the correspondence I received from him.
      He did write , to say , that nobody had come back from the
    grave and that religion was just so much nonsense.
      However he didn't offer any alternative , and thought that
    cloning was also nonsense , for someone his age [ 80 ] this
    most likely seemed to be the instance.

      I have a second cousin , now 83 , who has parkinsons
    disease , he's also dismissive of the whole notion of cloning
    or major therapy for his condition ; though to a lesser extent
    than my father was.
      Yet I feel that if therapeutic cloning , or similar, had been
    proven to be effective , that both would of shown an interest.

              ---------------------------------------

      As you may realize from my postings at Yahoo , I'm more
    interested in the very practical aspects of regenerative medicine
    and cellular programming.
      I must mention that I'm not professionally involved in this type
    of research , in fact my background is more in the area of applied
    and pure mathematics , with computer science having some significance.

      However , from a very early age , I had a desire to transcend the
    difficulties I found myself in and realized that an eternity might
    be required.
      When I do have focus in my life it's towards the goal of an
    extended and healthy lifespan , where I have the opportunity to
    find answers to other aspects of who we are , or might become.
      My compassion for others has stemmed from this , a desire to
    have others experiencing their real destiny.

              ---------------------------------------

      For awhile now I've been observing technological developments
    and the minor advances made in regenerative medicine , there's
    mention being made of a 'technological spike' , due to occur
    in the next 10 to 15 years. This is rather broad , one always
    needs to define ones goals in terms of how much closer it will
    bring you to acheiving , at least , extended life.

      The useful technologies in this respect :

     1.   That already exist,

          Microscopy , including recent advances with associated
                       software.
          Nanoprobes , in this instance as used in florescence
                       microscopy.
          GeneChips  , Also known as MicroArrays , these permit
                       a DNA profile to be constructed , L.E.F.
                       is using these in one of its studies.
                       GeneSpring software can be used with this.
          Protein imaging ,  recent advances in N.M.R. , in particular
                       the new superconducting device from Oxford
                       Scientific , that was installed at a U.S.
                       university.
                       D.T. - M.R.I , uses water molecules to image
                       microscopic components of a biological entity.
          H.U.G.O. ,   The human genome project and the accurate
                      information that will flow from there.

          New genome sequencers  , in particular , from USGenomics.

          Computers  ,  Constantly improving capabilities will enable
                       genomic simulations to be done on a personal
                       computer , with more and more accuracy.
                         The requirements for massive computational
                       capabilities may be lessened after large
                       ensembles of computers have solved particular
                       computational tasks.

          Other  ,     That I'd need to refresh my memory about.



     2.   That are in development,

          Labs on a Chip  , using microfluidics and micro-actuators.

          Nano devices    , a large and growing area of research , just
                         a few key accomplishments here could revolutionize
                         many aspects of the biological sciences and make
                         it more of a science than a cooking course.
                           Some valid concerns exist about the overuses of
                         other types of this technology , in areas that
                         involve mass consumerism.

          Human Proteome Project ,   an attempt to sequence and determine
                          the structure of all of the proteins that exist
                          in a human cell.

          Proteome Chips ,   protein equivalent of the GeneChip.


          Protein folding  ,  new algorithms are being developed and tested,
                           using supercomputer -clusters , to find the most
                           effecient and practical algorithm.
                              This might then be used on a P.C.

          Improved microscopy,    e.g.  30nm florescence microscopy.

          Other ,


                    --------------------------------------------

         I'm now aware of the opinions of a few others , in the
       scientific field , and may attempt to resume contact with them.

         A few exchanges , between us , maybe necessary before something
       tangible arises.


    Yours Faithfully,

          [    ]   Edmont.









On 2002-09-05 physical_immortality@yahoogroups.com said:
    >What a pleasure to meet you!
    >Looks like we're up for some inspiring bainstorming sessions on
    >socialization strategies.
    >Best I can tell from 30 years of practice in this context is that
    >there is an underlying matriarchal subconscious "conspiracy" of
    >smoke and mirrors all held in place with guilt denied around
    >breeding to kill.
    >I see that the collective psychology has preferred to create false
    >messiahs, buddahs, mohammads etc, to practice psuedo resolutionary
    >respect-ism, which , of course, resolves nothing.
    >I look forward to learning with you....if we don't kick butt you
    >know what will happen!
    >Love
    >Robert Hedges,
    >Sedona Az
    >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    >---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
    >http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/OnSolB/TM
    >--------------------------------------------------------------------
    >-~->
    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.
    >com/info/terms/

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Test Drive

What a pleasure to meet you!

Looks like we're up for some inspiring bainstorming sessions on
socialization strategies.

Best I can tell from 30 years of practice in this context is that
there is an underlying matriarchal subconscious "conspiracy" of
smoke and mirrors all held in place with guilt denied around
breeding to kill.

I see that the collective psychology has preferred to create false
messiahs, buddahs, mohammads etc, to practice psuedo resolutionary
respect-ism, which , of course, resolves nothing.

I look forward to learning with you....if we don't kick butt you
know what will happen!

Love
Robert Hedges,
Sedona Az

Dear Robert.Hedges,

      That is quite an emotive statement , as were numerous ones
    made during the cold war and other religious wars.

      Perhaps you can tell me what you see as being the obstacles
    to changing the situation , so that immortality is more a
    reality than perpetual oblivion.
      I , personally , feel that those who intentionally stand in
    the way , without justification , of our destiny to be immortal ;
    are entitled to the same fate as the billions who have gone
    before them. Just don't infect me with the madness while they're
    rushing headlong to kiss their own graves.

      This desire , made manifest in the daily lifes of many , is
    a source of chaos in the here and now and severly degrades
    our potential as humans.
      So much so that a corresponding transcence is required to
    counter this tendancy , by this I mean that an individual must
    surrender their own desire to immortality to lift someone up
    from the common cesspool of morbidity and [ pre-mature ]
    mortality.
      Whereas a little rational thought all around might well
    of improved the situation.


   Regards,
               edmont.



On 2002-09-04 physical_immortality@yahoogroups.com said:
    >Unless you enjoy the fact that everyday 388 tons of human brains are
    >returned into the earth, you might want to help organize Mortality
    >Resolution International.
    >Physical Immortality
    >http://www.istopdeath.com/f.html
    >Robert Hedges
    >Sedona
    >Az
    >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    >---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
    >http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/OnSolB/TM
    >--------------------------------------------------------------------
    >-~->
    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.
    >com/info/terms/

Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Test Drive

Unless you enjoy the fact that everyday 388 tons of human brains are
returned into the earth, you might want to help organize Mortality
Resolution International.

Physical Immortality

http://www.istopdeath.com/f.html

Robert Hedges
Sedona
Az

Hi,

I am 25 years male.  And I am facing one problem with my chest.  That
is 'One side of my chest is normal but the right side of chest less.
There is only bones covered by skin'. How can I solve this problem.
Is there any solution to solve my problem.  If there, please tell me
what is that and how much money i have to spent to that.

Thanking u.
bye