>
> My first thght was that I had never heard of RSD being a terminal illness  or
> untreatable.  I know folks with the implants who had very good success  qwith
> the pain.
> When I was in the pain clinic and told 'rational suicide; was appropriate  in
> my case I remember telling the director, a psychiatrist, that to me the 
> definition of depression and chronic pain were the same: hopelessness and 
> helplessness.
> Freiud said that life was about having having work and love, that made it 
> worth living.  I belive those would be considered 'assets' in the nono  typical
> definition of the word.
> The loss of the emotional supposrts or ADL are causes of suicididality and 
> the acting out of it.
> It is intersting, also, as a personal note, that I had that exact 
> conversation life vs demise, with a neurologist about my potential  suicide.  He was
> talking about I shouldn't want to die or kill  myself.  I told him that was not
> the issue.  I did not want to die per  se, I did want to live but I wanted and
> needed to get rid of the pain.  In  doing what had to be done to do that,
> suicide, I would be having death as a  known risk of my actions not as a primary
> drive. 
>  
>  
>  
> :
> Prefatory note:  this thread is on physical pain but in no way  implies there
> are not other kinds of pain, that is not feeling physical but  somehow
> otherwise e.g. emotional or spritual to the person - without stopping  here to
> discuss mind/body issues, which are manifold as we have said and  complicated
> mappings).
>
> I have a bit more recall now - that perhaps RSD  (used to be called
> "causalgia" then "reflex sympathetic dystrophy", and now ...  help me out with the
> later term?)  was a topic where the time until death  was predicted in units and
> the disabling by most definitions kicked in.   And by the way - in our
> International Disability Convention discussion  contexts,  if the social view of the
> medical professions was  "hopelessness," then here seems an instant of
> disablement by environment not  impairment?
>
> Appreciate the suggested idea of loss of the asset of 'no  pain' here, 
> though was thinking of loss of ability to move about and even  as with many to
> leave the house or home.  Again, I do appreciate the idea  of asset loss which
> would be very interesting to take further. Even in terms of  the conventrionally
> listed ADLs (activities of daily living) - those activities  can be said to be
> really basic  assets )! 
>
> PS: Last night  someone was speaking on the dual draw to eros and thanitos
> which they described  as life/love versus demise.  Some theories say the latter
> is the greater  draw but in my view the former is, "hands down."  No contest. 
> And ...  we do have some last apparent last writings of some who are said to
> have taken  their lives because the pain was was so great.  i think we can
> communicate  some of this to "doctors" in terms of wanting life, not death.
>
> More ideas  ... ? ...
>
> :) LDMF. 
> Best wishes, Dr. L. D.  Misek-Falkoff
> International Disability Convention Caucus.
>
> -----  Original Message -----
> From: leejcaroll@...
> To:  DisabilityConvention@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 10:31  AM
> Subject: Re: [DisabilityConvention] Government-Induced Suiciding of the  Poor
>
>
> In a message dated 10/2/2004 6:37:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> ldmf@... writes:
> I have a question that may be related,  POC.  People who request medication
> for pain so that they can function are  frequently denied lest they "become
> addicted."  But there is medical school  literature on the web, location not
> immediately;  which says people with  untreated often called chronic, but can be
> chronically sever, pain will  eventually have a much reduced quality of life
> and die "ahead of time."   There were even predictions of how long (months or
> years) this would take.   Related?  LDMF.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Party of  Citizens
> To: DisabilityConvention@yahoogroups.com
> Cc:  Ingram-Show-Past-And-Future@yahoogroups.com ; bcrants@yahoogroups.com ; 
> bcpolitics@yahoogroups.com ; UNIVERSALHUMANRIGHTS@yahoogroups.com ; 
> endingpoverty@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 7:53  PM
> Subject: [DisabilityConvention] Government-Induced Suiciding of the  Poor
>
>
> Let me clarify. I wasn't blaming the government for  gambling-related
> suicides. I just pointed out that both gambling-related  suicides and poverty-related
> suicides (in some categories) have ASSET LOSS in  common. Thus we can expect
> that when people are threatened with loss of   food and shelter, as thousands
> are threatened with daily in BC, SOME WILL BE  SUICIDED. Government know this.
> So is it using suicide to cull out the useless  eaters?
> I think "asset loss" is almost always a deciding factor in  suicidality. 
> There is a loss: spouse, money, physical ability,  Pain  in that it is the loss
> of no pain (for lack of a better way to put it.)
> i  think we stretch the net too far when we say that undertreatment of pain
> is a  culling of the pain population. My feeling from dealing with docs for so
> many  years re: pain is that the ones who are not recently graduated come from
> the old  school, regardless of the literature, and belive that addiction is
> worse than  pain and do not acce[pt  the literature that shows thosd with pain
> have a  lower risk of addicition becaus it is for physical pain and not for
> fun.
> I  don't know the lit, and would love a cite if you have one, Linda, but
> would be  surprised if the population studied was a large enough one to (Cant
> think of the  word) go out to the entire  populaion,.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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