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Dear All,
I agree that convergence is the way forward.
Logically, it would seem that if the eLogbook has a better format it is adopted by ISCP - logbooks merged and continued on ISCP but I'm a little confused if eLogbook has a different data set how it is merged accurately. Perhaps this could be clarified at the upcoming meeting and ISCP/PMETB's/SAC's view regarding the future of the eLogbook/running two fairly identical services ascertained.
However, I feel the end point we should strive for is to achieve initially a UK database then European database to allow planning of training, research/outcome data sets and establishment of service provision no matter which database is used. (The ISCP data set would allow us to see the current provision by adult surgeons for children especially if standardised.)
Finally, why give a portion of BAPS funds (if it is included in an associate membership fee) to run a logbook which is a duplicate of one run by the government free for SpR's/Consultants and mandatory for new StR trainees?
BW
Paul
To: paediatricsurgerytrainees@yahoogroups.com
From: c.rees@...
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:44:29 +0100
Subject: RE: [paediatricsurgerytrainees] Re: SAC Meeting regarding ISCP Curriculum
Windows Live Messenger: Happy 10-Year Anniversary—get free winks and emoticons. Get Them Now
I agree that convergence is the way forward.
Logically, it would seem that if the eLogbook has a better format it is adopted by ISCP - logbooks merged and continued on ISCP but I'm a little confused if eLogbook has a different data set how it is merged accurately. Perhaps this could be clarified at the upcoming meeting and ISCP/PMETB's/SAC's view regarding the future of the eLogbook/running two fairly identical services ascertained.
However, I feel the end point we should strive for is to achieve initially a UK database then European database to allow planning of training, research/outcome data sets and establishment of service provision no matter which database is used. (The ISCP data set would allow us to see the current provision by adult surgeons for children especially if standardised.)
Finally, why give a portion of BAPS funds (if it is included in an associate membership fee) to run a logbook which is a duplicate of one run by the government free for SpR's/Consultants and mandatory for new StR trainees?
BW
Paul
To: paediatricsurgerytrainees@yahoogroups.com
From: c.rees@...
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:44:29 +0100
Subject: RE: [paediatricsurgerytrainees] Re: SAC Meeting regarding ISCP Curriculum
I agree. There is a lot of time and effort going in to making the elogbook work for Paeds Surgery, so please use the elogbook and sync with ISCP. No-one will be making specialty-specific adjustments to the ISCP logbook, and the fee for the e-logbook will be included in BAPS associate membership, so that is the one we should all be using.
Best wishes,
Clare Rees
Miss C Rees MBChB MRCS
SpR in Paediatric Surgery
From: paediatricsurgerytr
Sent: 22 July 2009 11:27
To: paediatricsurgerytr
Subject: [paediatricsurgeryt
Dear all
Need to check something.....BAPS recommended we all use the elogbook. When set up correctly this automatically synchronises with the ISCP logbook so no problems with ARCP's. Should we not all sing from the same hymn sheet and work on getting one logbook great rather than 2 being average at best?
Thanks
Sarah Wood
--- In paediatricsurgerytrainees@yahoogroups.com , Paul Jackson <PBJACKSON@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> Missing u already!
>
> RE ISCP website:
>
> (1) Could we please have the learning objectives/levels automatically come up from the syllabus when an assessment form is filled.
>
> (2) The jump in competencies from having seen or know about to do or at consultant level is quite steep - maybe some middle ground is needed especially with the PBA's.
>
> (3) In the drop down menu - could we please have thoracoscopic.
>
> (4) Could we have a free text section in the log book both parties can see.
>
> (5) If some one includes me in their logbook - before it automatically updates mine could it come up for approval/acceptance rather than slotting in.
>
> (6) Could we have some consensus/amalgamation on Paediatric Surgery / Adult General Surgery Paediatrics topics.
>
> (7) Could it automatically fill male in surgery for the undescended testis/surgery for the acute scrotum. (May provide some debate.)
>
> (8) Could we improve the Neonatal section to allow more accurate recording by replacing titles of Laparotomy or Anastomosis or stoma formation – with Laparotomy then a dropdown box to add sub headings?
>
> (9) Could we push for all Consultant surgeons to be registered on the site.
>
> (10) Regarding MM could anyone seeing MM add it to the Log book section as a separate form that would then be forwarded to the operative surgeon and following acceptance amalgamated with their log.
>
> (11) Could we have a comparison page for operative experience showing the national average, maximum and minimum number of procedures performed by level like the e-logbook.
>
> To end on a positive note the new assessment forms that have been added and adapted with feed back are great. This site provides a fantastic tool to plan training and service provision for the future not to mention national audit.
>
> BW
>
> Paul
>
> (Now day 4 without Iron Bru.)
>
>
>
>
>
> To: paediatricsurgerytrainees@yahoogroups.com
> From: charleskeys@...
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:52:24 +0000
> Subject: [paediatricsurgerytrainees] SAC Meeting regarding ISCP Curriculum
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear All
>
> I will be attending an SAC meeting on 23rd July in Edinburgh which is about the ISCP curriculum for Paediatric Surgery.
>
> As you are probably aware PMETB have asked all 9 surgical specialities to create and finalise thier curriculae by September 2009. These curriculae are the ISCP syllabuses that our training is based on, and they are created by the SAC. The paediatric surgical curriculum can be found at:
>
> http://www.iscp.ac.uk/syllabus/overview.aspx?Spec=PS
>
> The curriculum is pretty exhaustive but is still a work in progress. The purpose of the SAC meeting next week is to finalise the document and discuss it's implementation.
>
> I need to know what the trainee body view is on the curriculum.
>
> Specifically I welcome your opinions on 3 things:
>
> 1. The content of the curriculum. Good and bad points. How it is set out, is it too much or any ommissions.
>
> 2. The ISCP website. Is it easy to use or not. Any comments on how it could be improved.
>
> 3. Work Based Assessments. Comments on the number of them that need to be completed, how easy they are to use, the range of operations/procedures available for assessment etc. and how useful as a learning tool you find them.
>
> This is your chance to influence the curriculum, how the ISCP website is used as a teaching tool and how you are assessed. You can tell me your views through this forum or e-mail me directly.
>
> Let me know
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Get the best of MSN on your mobile
> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/147991039/direct/01/
>
Need to check something...
Thanks
Sarah Wood
--- In paediatricsurgerytr
>
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> Missing u already!
>
> RE ISCP website:
>
> (1) Could we please have the learning objectives/levels automatically come up from the syllabus when an assessment form is filled.
>
> (2) The jump in competencies from having seen or know about to do or at consultant level is quite steep - maybe some middle ground is needed especially with the PBA's.
>
> (3) In the drop down menu - could we please have thoracoscopic.
>
> (4) Could we have a free text section in the log book both parties can see.
>
> (5) If some one includes me in their logbook - before it automatically updates mine could it come up for approval/acceptance rather than slotting in.
>
> (6) Could we have some consensus/amalgamat
>
> (7) Could it automatically fill male in surgery for the undescended testis/surgery for the acute scrotum. (May provide some debate.)
>
> (8) Could we improve the Neonatal section to allow more accurate recording by replacing titles of Laparotomy or Anastomosis or stoma formation – with Laparotomy then a dropdown box to add sub headings?
>
> (9) Could we push for all Consultant surgeons to be registered on the site.
>
> (10) Regarding MM could anyone seeing MM add it to the Log book section as a separate form that would then be forwarded to the operative surgeon and following acceptance amalgamated with their log.
>
> (11) Could we have a comparison page for operative experience showing the national average, maximum and minimum number of procedures performed by level like the e-logbook.
>
> To end on a positive note the new assessment forms that have been added and adapted with feed back are great. This site provides a fantastic tool to plan training and service provision for the future not to mention national audit.
>
> BW
>
> Paul
>
> (Now day 4 without Iron Bru.)
>
>
>
>
>
> To: paediatricsurgerytr
> From: charleskeys@
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:52:24 +0000
> Subject: [paediatricsurgeryt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear All
>
> I will be attending an SAC meeting on 23rd July in Edinburgh which is about the ISCP curriculum for Paediatric Surgery.
>
> As you are probably aware PMETB have asked all 9 surgical specialities to create and finalise thier curriculae by September 2009. These curriculae are the ISCP syllabuses that our training is based on, and they are created by the SAC. The paediatric surgical curriculum can be found at:
>
> http://www.iscp.
>
> The curriculum is pretty exhaustive but is still a work in progress. The purpose of the SAC meeting next week is to finalise the document and discuss it's implementation.
>
> I need to know what the trainee body view is on the curriculum.
>
> Specifically I welcome your opinions on 3 things:
>
> 1. The content of the curriculum. Good and bad points. How it is set out, is it too much or any ommissions.
>
> 2. The ISCP website. Is it easy to use or not. Any comments on how it could be improved.
>
> 3. Work Based Assessments. Comments on the number of them that need to be completed, how easy they are to use, the range of operations/procedur
>
> This is your chance to influence the curriculum, how the ISCP website is used as a teaching tool and how you are assessed. You can tell me your views through this forum or e-mail me directly.
>
> Let me know
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________
> Get the best of MSN on your mobile
> http://clk.atdmt.
>
Windows Live Messenger: Happy 10-Year Anniversary—get free winks and emoticons. Get Them Now
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