Hi Naima,

I am concerned that it is surgeons who are down-playing what CCT means - no one else. If you look at  the RCP website they do not distinguish between CCT and CCST - so for them PMETB gives them a piece of paper and access to the specialist register - it is the same thing they have always had, but called by a different name. It is, dare I say it, elitist surgeons who want to (artificially) introduce a distinction between CCST and CCT - one which everybody seems determined to go along with. I am concerned that the two will NOT be the same thing , but it would appear that it is surgeons who have decided to do this as it is probably not easy/possible to train people to the same level as previously in 2/3 the hours and 2/3 the number of years, with dilution of index cases due to increased trainee numbers. It may conveniently divide surgeons into 2 camps - and 'united we stand , divided we fall'.

With regards fighting it: I have raised this question in a number of forums and people are becoming concerned. What we can do? This is a very good question, beyond agitating about it not a great deal more I suspect.

Best wishes,

Liam

At 11:22 17/12/2004, you wrote:

Dear Liam and Richard,
As you already know I do not feel that our training contract can be changed to a different qualification, especially when the level of expertise for CCT sounds about equivalent to a Year 2/3 trainee!!!!
One further query? CCST was introduced to allow us to practice across the EU. How is that expected to continue if CCT is not totally equivalent to CCST?
Thanks for fighting this. BMA may also be able to fight this on our behalf.
Ciao,
Naima


liamslmcc <liam.mccarthy@...> wrote:

Dear all,

I have done some digging to try and find out who will get a CCST and

who will get a CCT: the answer dependes on when PMETB takes over

responsibility for our training.

On the STA (Specilaist Training Authority)website (latest news) it

says that the STA will continue to award CCSTs until PMETB takes over

in 2005 (? when in 2005). Furthermore PMETB will award a CCT

(certificate of completion of training) as this is the term used in

the 2003 act which set up this body (The General Medical Practice and

Specialist Medical Education, Training and Qualifications Order

2003). PMETB won't award a CCST because it cannot.

Does this matter?

If you are a Physician almost certainly not. The RCP does not appear

to be interested in a post CCT qualification. CCT for them will be a

CCST.

It would seem h owever that surgeons lead by the Urologists in the

form of Prof Mundy - who now control the JCHST - are changing the

definition of CCT into a stepping stone lesser qualification than a

CCST. A step most people won't make. This does raise the question of

who will award a CCST - and will it mean anything? (In more paranoid

moments you might actually think that the JCHST is determined to do

the governments job for it in terms of dumbing down surgeons...)

If PMETB does become a reality then ALL SUBSEQUENT TRAINEES WILL GET

A CCT, even those who have done almost all their training under the

old schemes. Perhaps a legal challenge could,and should, be mounted?

Does this clear things up? Not really.

Please post your thoughts on this site.

Best wishes,

Liam

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