Hi,
I dont think I was clear that when I said that some entrainment and
NF can mimic drugs that I meant addictive drugs (both street and
legal). In other words IME there are times that clients and trainers
can get addicted (a quick relief from suffering)to certain types of
training. I have done it myself during my euphoric 21 hz left, 14
hz right 1.86 days. It was hard for me to move past that to a more
resilient and flexible but less sexy kind of training.
But I just read something to keep me on the straight and narrow.
Deepak Chopra mentioned a study in his latest book called Life After
Death. He referred to this study while discussing ways to induce the
life after death experience (white light, tunnels, etc)without
actually dying.The study involved a cetrifuge at high enough rates
to reduce blood flow to the frontal lobes. So could this equipment
we are discussing be doing something similar by directing the blood
flow to other areas of the brain? just wondering.

Meg


--- In neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com, "parisprints2002"
<megp1@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> You brought up some interesting ideas.
> The 'what are we in this for' is an interesting one.
> The idea that NF and entrainment can sometimes mimic or replace
drug
> use is another that not too many people discuss.
> When I saw that machine my eyes lit up, woo, ahh, instant
> enlightenment. That is generally not a good sign for me:-).
> I have the same feeling when I see a wall of cigarette packs, just
> takes my breath away, it does. Then I remember the down side. ah
> well.
>
>
> Meg
>
>
> --- In neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com, michael who was
> > inducing "LSD-like experiences" (his words) by connecting his
head
> to a
> > single
> > D battery.
> >
> > The key issue, in my view, is whether LASTING change 'unfolds'
> intrinsically
> > or
> > is 'induced' extrinsically. In the first case, using
> neurofeedback, the
> > brain
> > can learn or re-learn. In the second case, when stimulation
> is 'put into'
> > the
> > brain, the result may be temporarily alterered states but I
> question whether
> > there is 'learning'. Is the brain any different once the
subject
> is no
> > longer
> > hooked up to an external source of energy? If it's different,
is
> it
> > different in
> > ways that the brain 'naturally' is when receiving
> nerurofeedback? Is it
> > also
> > possible that the brain can be 'wrongly' re-wired from an
external
> source,
> > even if
> > there is short term pleasure or a transitory 'enlightenment'
> experience? I
> > even
> > wonder if there could be an addictive element...might a subject
> feel
> > compelled
> > to go back again and again for another 'fix'? It may be
electro-
> magnetic,
> > but
> > it appears to function like a drug. I acknowledge, as one who
> has used
> > various drugs (I was a subject in 'legal' psylocybin experiments
> at Ohio
> > State University and 'legal' marijuana experiments at the
> University of
> > Michigan), they can and do open 'the doors of perception' and
> thereby offer
> > an invitation to further 'inner work' that otherwise may not
have
> happened.
> >
> > It seems to me that ALL 'mystical experiences' occur in the
brain.
> > Externally
> > induced experiences, to me, are like getting a complete blood
> transfusion on
> > a daily
> > basis. It seems simpler to just keep my blood healthy and
flowing
> > naturally,
> > which is roughly akin to what neurofeedback does for the CNS, in
> my view.
> >
> > In my view, 'enlightenment' is an ongoing process, not a fixed
> state. If
> > 'it' can't
> > be brought up from inside more or less continually, then perhaps
> it ain't
> > the real
> > thing (whatever THAT is). "Rotating electromagnetic fields"
> look pretty
> > sexy, yes;
> > my bias says that this is another form of sophisticated 21st
> century
> > entertainment.
> > Of course research showing different outcomes could sway me in
> another
> > direction.
> > That would be a huge undertaking. At this moment, I have my
> doubts. I own
> > that
> > I'm part Luddite and part skeptic, with a pinch of gadfly.
> >
> > I look forward to any answers to John's question about others'
> reports.
> >
> > ~ All best, Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > on 11/28/06 3:45 AM, John Thompson at nhtc@ wrote:
> >
> > I remember when this research was first reported some years ago.
> > Whilst it is not neurofeedback it is rater curious. Apparently
by
> > stimulating parts of the brain with rotating weak electromagnetic
> > fields mystical experiences occur. Now it seems this technology
has
> > been commercialized and is freely available. The fact that these
> > experiences can be induced raises some interesting philosophical
> and
> > ethical questions. The link below is for the website. Has
anyone
> on
> > this list heard any reports arising from the use of this?
> >
> > http://www.shaktitechnology.com/rotating/index.htm
> >
> > Regards to all
> > John
> >
>