Hi Michael,

You brought up some interesting ideas.
The 'what are we in this for' is an interesting one.
The idea that NF and entrainment can sometimes mimic or replace drug
use is another that not too many people discuss.
When I saw that machine my eyes lit up, woo, ahh, instant
enlightenment. That is generally not a good sign for me:-).
I have the same feeling when I see a wall of cigarette packs, just
takes my breath away, it does. Then I remember the down side. ah
well.


Meg


--- In neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com, michael who was
> inducing "LSD-like experiences" (his words) by connecting his head
to a
> single
> D battery.
>
> The key issue, in my view, is whether LASTING change 'unfolds'
intrinsically
> or
> is 'induced' extrinsically. In the first case, using
neurofeedback, the
> brain
> can learn or re-learn. In the second case, when stimulation
is 'put into'
> the
> brain, the result may be temporarily alterered states but I
question whether
> there is 'learning'. Is the brain any different once the subject
is no
> longer
> hooked up to an external source of energy? If it's different, is
it
> different in
> ways that the brain 'naturally' is when receiving
nerurofeedback? Is it
> also
> possible that the brain can be 'wrongly' re-wired from an external
source,
> even if
> there is short term pleasure or a transitory 'enlightenment'
experience? I
> even
> wonder if there could be an addictive element...might a subject
feel
> compelled
> to go back again and again for another 'fix'? It may be electro-
magnetic,
> but
> it appears to function like a drug. I acknowledge, as one who
has used
> various drugs (I was a subject in 'legal' psylocybin experiments
at Ohio
> State University and 'legal' marijuana experiments at the
University of
> Michigan), they can and do open 'the doors of perception' and
thereby offer
> an invitation to further 'inner work' that otherwise may not have
happened.
>
> It seems to me that ALL 'mystical experiences' occur in the brain.
> Externally
> induced experiences, to me, are like getting a complete blood
transfusion on
> a daily
> basis. It seems simpler to just keep my blood healthy and flowing
> naturally,
> which is roughly akin to what neurofeedback does for the CNS, in
my view.
>
> In my view, 'enlightenment' is an ongoing process, not a fixed
state. If
> 'it' can't
> be brought up from inside more or less continually, then perhaps
it ain't
> the real
> thing (whatever THAT is). "Rotating electromagnetic fields"
look pretty
> sexy, yes;
> my bias says that this is another form of sophisticated 21st
century
> entertainment.
> Of course research showing different outcomes could sway me in
another
> direction.
> That would be a huge undertaking. At this moment, I have my
doubts. I own
> that
> I'm part Luddite and part skeptic, with a pinch of gadfly.
>
> I look forward to any answers to John's question about others'
reports.
>
> ~ All best, Michael
>
>
>
> on 11/28/06 3:45 AM, John Thompson at nhtc@... wrote:
>
> I remember when this research was first reported some years ago.
> Whilst it is not neurofeedback it is rater curious. Apparently by
> stimulating parts of the brain with rotating weak electromagnetic
> fields mystical experiences occur. Now it seems this technology has
> been commercialized and is freely available. The fact that these
> experiences can be induced raises some interesting philosophical
and
> ethical questions. The link below is for the website. Has anyone
on
> this list heard any reports arising from the use of this?
>
> http://www.shaktitechnology.com/rotating/index.htm
>
> Regards to all
> John
>