RE: [neurofeedcommunity] Re: my GSR (SCL) cannot be trained
Martin Said “. I don't think it is wise to discuss this at
length over the list and bore other people with our differnce in viewpoint”
Martin I am not bored with this exchange.
John
From: neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martijn Arns Sent: Wednesday, 26 March 2008 8:13 AM To: neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [neurofeedcommunity] Re: my GSR (SCL) cannot be trained
Val,
I think you are reversing some
things. I don't think it is wise to discuss this at length over the list and
bore other people with our differnce in viewpoint, if you really want to get to
an understanding on this topic let's continue this off list and we'll post our
outcomes once we agree on things.
One last thing I want to mention
is that I don't only BELIEVE, since I have provided published data to back
my ideas. All you put forward is based on BELIEVE and no data.
Martijn
From: neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Val Brown Sent: dinsdag 25 maart 2008 18:46 To: neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com Subject: [neurofeedcommunity] Re: my GSR (SCL) cannot be trained
Martijn:
You make my points for me, esp re: the differences between our overall
approach.
You BELIEVE that separating out point sources is critically important in providing
neurofeedback training. That is a BELIEF. You could actually TEST that belief
by simply
performing a "head to head" comparison of your guided approach and
the default,
recommended way of working in NeuroCARE. It would be an easy comparison to setup
as
we have very competent practitioners there in Holland who could be involved.
Why not do that and actually settle it?
Single point localization CAN be derived using JTFA-based techniques alone. The
overall
methodology to do so is well known and is frequently employed in localizing
earthquake
epicenters as well as oil pipeline failure points from a distance with only two
sources. In
many cases only one source is needed, depending on the kind of signal-base
involved.
But that all begs the question because it returns us to YOUR core BELIEF: viz,
that
localization is CRITICALLY important. Our users point out everyday with their
results that
such a BELIEF is unwarranted.
Different etiologies may -- or may NOT -- necessitate different treatments and
that also
goes to the issue of whether or not neurofeedback is inherently a treatment.
Meditation
has been used successfully in a number of different contexts that others have
seen as
being like a "treatment" because of reported symptom remediation. This
includes blood
pressure changes, respiratory improvement, etc. Similarly aerobic exercise is
well known
for its salutory effects on cardio-vascular status as well as a variety of
diagnosable
conditions. That doesn't make either meditation or aerobic exercise a medical
treatment -
- even when they have clear, demonstrable health-related outcomes. And those
outcomes "cross over" diagnostic groupings.
So the BELIEF that different etiologies or different phenomenologies REQUIRE
different
approaches is simply not so. In many cases for many diagnoses these kinds of
distinctions
ARE critically important but that doesn't mean that the distinctions are always
and
everywhere critically important.
If you're interested in setting up a collaborative "head to head"
kind of study please let me
know. I'd be happy to facilitate that. That has been my position all along and
it remains
my position today. It also remains interesting that no one has agreed to
actually do such a
study collaboratively -- esp not those who have continued to criticize me over
the years.
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