RE: [neurofeedcommunity] Re: my GSR (SCL) cannot be trained
Val,
When we are talking about
disorders such as ADHD there are different causes of ADHD, which is evidenced
by the medication response.
In QEEG guided NF that is
also exactly the case, a different underlying neuropathology requires a
different treatment approach that makes a lot of sense. In Johnstone et al.
2005 this is explained in a lot of detail for both medication response but also
Neurofeedback response.
To further proof that personalizing
treatment works - not only for medication - we have done the same with magnetic
brain stimulation, with amazing results. We’re in the process of
publishing this, but personalizing magnetic brain stimulation based on the QEEG
leads to very high efficacy as well (> 85% remission in 20 sessions; >
65% reduction in BDI scores in 15 sessions). In traditional ‘non-personalized’
rTMS these rates are much lower (< 50-60%).
For NF there is another
study which will be published shortly in the AAPB journal on QEEG guided NF in
Dyslexia by Breteler et al.
So yes, enough concurrent
and published evidence and still working on it!
Only very unfortunate
that there is zero data for NCP to compare efficacies with… only
subjective experiences.
Regarding your 2
responses to methodology: Very interesting, however please explain to me how
you can dissociate different sources based on 1 or 2 channels? The slowed Alpha
Peak Frequency parietal will lead to increased slow content in frontal channels,
which in that case is NOT theta. These 2 sub-types require a completely
different treatment both medication wise but also NF wise.
How can your algorithms
dissociate these 2? This is virtually impossible based on 2 EEG channels…
But anyway, I think we
will remain to differ in opinion…
From:
neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com [mailto:neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Val Brown Sent: dinsdag 25 maart 2008 17:16 To:
neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com Subject: [neurofeedcommunity] Re:
my GSR (SCL) cannot be trained
Martijn:
I'm sure you are continually publishing what you're doing -- that's
your primary area of interest. And, if I'm not mistaken, what your
current paper shows is a possible role for QEEG in predicing
medication response -- not exactly the same thing as demonstrating
incremental efficacy/efficiency of two or more different approaches
to neurofeedback. Personalized MEDICINE is a good name for what you
do IMO because you are clearly committed to a MEDICAL procedure under
medical/professional supervision -- and that is certainly appropriate
re: the use of medication.
One of our major points of disagreement concerns your belief that
neurofeedback MUST be seen -- and regulated -- as a
medical/professional procedure. I disagree with that, except in re:
to the kinds of approaches you use and support. Those probably are
best done by licensed healthcare practitioners. They have a far
higher side-effect profile and require considerable expertise.
Re: your point that: "Furthermore, we also show very clearly that
simply relying on filters (linear or non-linear) or single locations
you will intermix the 2 most important sub-types, namely the frontal
slow and slowed Alpha Peak Frequency" there are two major,
interesting responses:
1. We don't use just "linear or non-linear" filters (as you call
them). Our unique Targeting procedure uses Adaptive JTFA, adaptive in-
line de-noising as well non-linear control procedures. Quite a bit
different from what you might have tested.
2. There is a belief underlying what you do: viz, that separating out
these various "sub-types" is important. In re: to some classes of
medications that is likely true; however, in re: to neurofeedback it
clearly isn't true -- at least when done using our method and
software.
Why not publish elsewhere? My question is: why publish? I'll let
others do that. I have more important things to go re: the software
itself.
All of this is wonderful, except it does not fit the non-linear dynamical paradigm at all. Doing such up-front analyses does not make sense. It's like...
Val, When we are talking about disorders such as ADHD there are different causes of ADHD, which is evidenced by the medication response. In QEEG guided NF that...
Martijn: You make my points for me, esp re: the differences between our overall approach. You BELIEVE that separating out point sources is critically important...
Val, I think you are reversing some things. I don't think it is wise to discuss this at length over the list and bore other people with our differnce in...
Martijn: Again, this is a place where we disagree and where, IMO, you are specifically misstating some things. To say that another way, it's not me who's got...
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Martin Said ". I don't think it is wise to discuss this at length over the list and bore other people with our differnce in viewpoint" Martin I am not bored...
Being a layperson, I can only say that I wish there were consensus on these matters. I have heard it all. One site vs. Many. So and so is a genius, no, he...
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Meg et al: I've never not been working on v2 and, esp AutoNav. And I also don't really get "bossed around", but I suspect that's pretty obvious to most...
BTW I was sitting next to a government worker (on a long plane ride) who was part of a group who set government regulation policies re insurance. He studied...
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That's a very exciting idea, bringing NDS information to this forum. Pertinent to our work and to so many systems we are part of, internally, externally,...
Hi John, I am really glad you chose to post here. We truly welcome diversity of any sort. The only thing we would moderate here (apart from mass advertising),...