Well, if he's a really good mirror, that just makes much of the
neurofeedback community rather pompous (hmm...) and me pretty finicky...
(hmm, again...)

Julie

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:46:24 -0400, parisprints2002 <megp1@...>
wrote:

> It was a pleasure Julie. I am thrilled to have you on board.
> Important info is that Julie is about 10-20 min ride from most
> westchester areas, that area is a bit short of znc practisioners.
> BTW Val is not at all pompous, he just does really good mirror :-)
> so I always look at the source.
>
>
> Meg
>
>
> --- In neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com, "Julie Weiner"
> <jweiner123@...> wrote:
>>
>> Meg, you can take credit. It was your enthusiasm and willingness
> to teach
>> that led me seriously to explore ZNC.
>>
>> By the way, my practice is in Riverdale, not Yonkers. Express
> buses from
>> midtown Manhattan stop within a block of my office.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:09:20 -0400, parisprints2002 <megp1@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Thank you Julie for using your extensive knowledge of biofeedback
> and
>> > neurofeedback to get across some very nice points. Bravo and
> thanks.
>> >
>> >
>> > Meg
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In neurofeedcommunity@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Bachers"
>> > <abachers@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Here is a recent post from another list from Julie Weiner, a
> Zengar
>> >> NeuroCARE user in Yonkers, NY, posted with her permission. This
> is
>> > in
>> >> response to an inquiry as to others' experiences with various
>> > systems and
>> >> whether they would recommend them.
>> >>
>> >> Alan Bachers
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Like many other very experienced neurofeedback practitioners, I
> have
>> >> switched to Zengar NeuroCAREPro. It is simple to learn and to
> use
>> > once it
>> >> is correctly installed on your computer, and it very reliable as
> a
>> >> clinical tool because it feeds back to the brain information
> about
>> > signal
>> >> variability, which was years ago identified as a key measure of
>> >> self-regulation, rather than specific amplitude or coherence
>> > measures.
>> >>
>> >> I tried for years to use symptom and QEEG-based protocols, but
> the
>> > problem
>> >> with those is how plodding a way of working they are. As with
>> > medication
>> >> trials, it can take hours, days or weeks to "get it right."
> During
>> > that
>> >> time, it is easy to lose the client's confidence because of
>> > setbacks,
>> >> interruptions to or lack of progress.
>> >>
>> >> Zengar NCP is reliable because it leaves to each brain the
> question
>> > of
>> >> exactly what needs to be corrected. The brain is a far more
>> > efficient
>> >> correlation machine than you or I can possibly be no matter how
>> > expert we
>> >> become in referring to databases of QEEG norms or EEG-
> equivalents of
>> >> neuropsychological symptoms.
>> >>
>> >> ZNCP simply triggers the brain's own "orienting response"
> whenever
>> > any of
>> >> the brain's self-regulatory mechanisms go off-line. The brain
>> > checks out
>> >> what the problem is within itself, and begins to self-correct.
> How
>> > the
>> >> program knows when a self-regulatory mechanism goes offline: by
>> > measuring
>> >> changes in signal variability (more detail on which, below).
> How it
>> >> triggers the orienting response: by creating a very brief pause
> in
>> > a
>> >> musical phrase when variability changes. (The client or
> therapist
>> > chooses
>> >> the music being played from either a CD or music files on the
>> >> practitioner's computer.) The unexpected break in the rhythm or
>> >> continuity of phrase triggers the orienting response, upon which
> the
>> >> brain automatically scans itself (as it always does when
> something
>> >> unexpected happens; after all, self-scanning is the only way
> brains
>> > figure
>> >> out what's going on in their environment, since all sensory
>> > information
>> >> about the outside world is represented inside as neuronal
> changes).
>> >>
>> >> How ZNCP measures and feeds back signal varibility: it
> continually
>> >> measures, from the center of both left and right hemisphere (C3
> and
>> > C4,
>> >> the central placements over the sensory-motor strip), the signal
>> > amplitude
>> >> of eight different frequency bins, and certain of the
> relationships
>> >> between left and right (e.g. difference, I presume, although the
>> > exact
>> >> parameters of the four "Zengar" protocols are proprietary), and
>> > derives
>> >> variability measures over a moving time-window. Whenever there
> is a
>> >> change in signal variability above or below the recently previous
>> >> differences measured, the music (and/or visual signal; one can
> use
>> > a movie
>> >> or AVI file or G-force abstractions) is stopped for a brief
> instant.
>> >>
>> >> The therapist's role, at present, is simply to be present with
> the
>> > client
>> >> as witness to their journey, and to maintain the parameters of
> the
>> >> feedback so that the stops do not become too regular and
> frequent,
>> > which
>> >> would cause the brain to habituate to and ignore them, nor too
>> > long, which
>> >> would make listening to the music annoying because of all the
>> > pauses, nor
>> >> too seldom, which might provide too little information for a
>> > session to be
>> >> meaningful.
>> >>
>> >> The down side of NCP is that it requires a high-end computer
>> > because of
>> >> the graphic, audio and rapid, concurrent calculation demands,
>> > adding to
>> >> the expense. And some people find the personality of its
> inventor,
>> > Val
>> >> Brown, pompous. But he really has come up with a brilliant
> system,
>> > and
>> >> perhaps deserves his pride of leadership and frustration with the
>> >> obtuseness and hostility of some of his critics. I have followed
>> > the
>> >> development of what is now Zengar NCP over many years. It grew
>> >> organically, through Val's systematically integrating several
>> >> then-established (or neglected) but competing neurofeedback
>> > protocols
>> >> (e.g. beta, SMR, alpha-theta and the then-frequently-ignored
> earlier
>> >> discoveries about 40-Hz and single-Hz frequency bins; Val
> himself,
>> > as far
>> >> as I know, developed 7/14/21 Hz work from Mike Tansey's
>> > observations about
>> >> the emotional concomitants of particular single-Hz bins);
> exploring
>> > the
>> >> strengths of Thought Technology's original Biograph program (
> e.g.
>> > its
>> >> ability to feed back, with a variety of both visual and auditory
>> > signals,
>> >> more than the three threshold settings and frequency bins that
> were
>> > then
>> >> standard; to set moving thresholds; to allow the therapist to
> view a
>> >> full-length, two-channel "frequency mirror" or other technical
>> > signal info
>> >> on one screen while giving the client simple visual images of
>> > specific EEG
>> >> frequency-bin changes on the other; to track variability; etc.);
>> > finally
>> >> inventing his own program when he had fully tested the limits of
>> > Biograph,
>> >> and increasingly automating NCP "journey" choices to free the
>> > therapist to
>> >> be more psychically present with the client. Other instrument
>> >> manufacturers are now inadvertently flattering Val by
> incorporating
>> >> derivations of variability (e.g. "Z-score" or variability
> feedback)
>> >> capabilities into their programs, automating protocol choices,
> etc.
>> >>
>> >> So, I've finally officially joined the NCP bandwagon. If I were
>> > still
>> >> using QEEG-based protocols (as I suppose I will eventually again
> if
>> > some
>> >> client in the future isn't satisfied with the effects of NCP), I
>> > would go
>> >> with Thornton's Activation QEEG (provided my DOS-based W98
> computer
>> > and
>> >> Lexicor equipment hold up), Peter Van Deusen's similar mini-Q
>> > procedures
>> >> for testing under cognitive challenge, or Sue Othmers' symptom-
> based
>> >> protocols, patiently derived from the original simple SMR and
> beta
>> >> protocols of Sterman, Lubar and Tansey and alpha (or alpha-theta)
>> >> protocols of Kamiya, Fahrion and Peniston/Kulkosky over many
> years
>> > of
>> >> experience with a wide variety of severely disabled clients. (See
>> >> http://www.eegspectrum.com/Applications/Intro/UltimateSelf-
>> > Help/HistoryofEEGBiofeedback/
>> >> for a good summary-history of neurofeedback).
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, if you can invest the bucks in a fancy new computer, I'd
>> > vote for
>> >> Zengar. Especially if you're new to neurofeedback, it is truly
>> > turn-key;
>> >> there is less to learn to get up and running (though eventually
> you
>> > might
>> >> want to learn more mathematics if you're curious about some of
> the
>> >> instrument's assessment capabilities) and you can be doing
> amazing
>> > work to
>> >> help your clients without having to know a lot of
> neurophysiology,
>> > without
>> >> investing in QEEG equipment and learning how to paste 23
> electrodes
>> > in the
>> >> right place with the right impedances, and without sending
> clients
>> > out for
>> >> a $1200 QEEG evaluation before you work with them.
>> >>
>> >> Julie
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>