>I dont think the PSA reading supports bone mets and the chest area is not probable.

 

I suppose you are suggesting that bone mets would flare the reading higher?  The rise in PSA has been low velocity. No radiation was done- no action following the RP like zero maintenance. The Uro was a good surgeon and I think really believed he did the whole job and expects that to be it. Obviously rarely true!

 

>Would you feel put upon to try a good grade of saw palmetto and curcumin and vitamin D3 to see if your PSA drops

 

The vitamin D or sunlight idea goes back a ways, but recently has been clarified and Drs like Liebowitz and Meyers have lent enough creditability to it that I have been on high D with Ibubrofen added for a few weeks now. Seems to be low hazard and might have some effect. I actually use the curcumin and saw palmetto to some extent. I would suppose that Avodart would be about like a more effective version of saw palmetto

(patentable for more profit).

 

>It may be worthwhile to see what the experts say about PSA 2 at 82 even with RP 14 years ago. This pocket of resistance may not be a killer.

 

I doubt anyone would "like" a PSA of 2.2 with no prostate. It is somewhat possible that a source of PSA would exist if the "nerve sparing" surgery left enough tissue surrounding the nerve bundles to continue PSA production. One of the people at Johns Hopkins has an article that does suggest that possibility for those that have higher than negligible readings post op.

 

>When they did the RP did they tell you what your tumor was. That is the volume and type of PCa. Did they do radiation at the time and were the margins clear? What were your baseline stats?

 

About all I remember was that the cells in the biopsy were "moderately differentiated". I suppose I could get more info but doubt that it changes this at this date.

 

A very knowledeable with PCA person has suggested that since the PSA was above .5 throughout the early post op period and has never had a doubling time faster than 2 years he would find it hard to believe that there was a metasis. 

 

I will be having a PSA test the 16 and consultation the 21st. I generally have not been concerned much with each .1 variation.

 

I can't help but wonder if using Avodart would make sense providing there is no stronger proof of actual

ravaging disease.

 

There are men surviving with poor stats and no complications.

 

My brother,17 yrs youger than I has been having a lot of trouble with BPH and high PSA. He was biopsied with no cancer found.

 

I thank you for your interest. The support means a lot.

 

Harold

You can get either through Ken

On 2-Jun-06, at 10:45 PM, Jodi Cuppy wrote:

> Is this Prostasol or PC Spes?
>
> Jodi
>

----- Original Message -----

From: steeleglas@...

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:10 PM

Subject: [NTPC Yahoo Group] Re: Dr. Liebowitz

Dominick
Thanks for the response.
I am somewhat confused because based on what you write it would seem that the
primary (in the prostate?) tumor should never be removed since it stifles the
growth of secondary (ouside the prostate?) metastatic tumors.
Why wouldn't Liebowitz use PCAC as a first line defense for all PCa, or is
this his current protocol rather than triple hormonal therapy (intermittent if
there is recurrence)?
Ed Brenner

Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 8:40 am (PDT)
From: "dominick c.vecchio" elvismlv@... 
Subject: Re: Dr. Liebowitz


Ed,
It stands for Prostate Cancer Antiangiogenic Cocktail and is a paper Dr
Leibowitz wrote based on the Angiogenisis theory of Dr Judah Folkman.
Simply, The primary tumor releases substances or factors which stunt growth
of the secondary tumor.These factors restrict the creation of a blood supply to
the secondary tumor at which point it cannot continue to grow. When the
primary tumor is removed the secoindart tumor can resume growth bescause the
factors from the primary tumor are no longer presnt.
The angiogenic cocktail restricts blood supply to the tumor and controls
cancer proliferation any where in the body in  the prostate or beyond and suports
the primary and secondary tumor interaction.
The cocktail consists of several low dose drugs which in a metastatic
patients does the job of lowering PSA and killing off cancer cells., The drugs or
chemotherapeutic agents are very well tolerated.
There is no hair loss, diarhea, lethargy  or symptoms commonly found in
conventional chemo and the results are excellent even for hopeless cases.
Dominick
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: steeleglas@...
  To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:04 PM
  Subject: [NTPC Yahoo Group] Dr. Liebowitz


  Dominick
  What is Dr. Robert Liebowitz's website (I couldn't find it using Google)
and
  what does the acronym PAAC stand for?
  Ed Brenner

----- Original Message -----

From: Harold

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 10:29 PM

Subject: Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group] +AM discussion on Jodi's question

 

From: dominick c.vecchio

>Harold,

 

>Its not that necessary to see him. I have a doctor on the east coast who knows his work ( Dr Leibowitz that is) and he directs me what to do. Get a similar doc near you. But first read and look at the tapes and dvds. You will be better off for it.

Dominick

 

Thanks.

From reading from his site I am amazed at the completeness of his knowledge and impressed that he doesn't seem to be in the rut of one protocol for all!

 

Even the Med Onc I saw recently seemed to have his mind made up what to do should I have further PSA increase. I hope that he is correct in his intrpretation of my last bone scan. Technichian- that was instructed to look for mets- says scan could be suggestive of.

 

The Med Onc says with a good ALkaline Phosphatase reading it is unlikely that the severe chest surface area pains are from mets. I am seeing a therapist and am having good luck wiping out the pain which probably is caused by Chronic Myofascial Pain disease- she has seen it before.

 

This does not rule out the possibility or probability of PCa mets as PSA last reading was 2.0 and previous 2.2. I had an RP 14 1/2 years ago so the PSA level theoreticaly should be near nothing.

 

As I am near 82, I really can't see going to any program that would weaken the body, create discomfort of its own, affect my moods, ambition, or brain capacity.

 

As in the article on heroic therapy in late years I tend to agree.

 

I do think some action may be desirable. I have a hard time finding Drs that Think anything but Lupron+!

 

Harold

----- Original Message -----

From: Harold

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 10:29 PM

Subject: Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group] +AM discussion on Jodi's question

 

From: dominick c.vecchio

>Harold,

 

>Its not that necessary to see him. I have a doctor on the east coast who knows his work ( Dr Leibowitz that is) and he directs me what to do. Get a similar doc near you. But first read and look at the tapes and dvds. You will be better off for it.

Dominick

 

Thanks.

From reading from his site I am amazed at the completeness of his knowledge and impressed that he doesn't seem to be in the rut of one protocol for all!

 

Even the Med Onc I saw recently seemed to have his mind made up what to do should I have further PSA increase. I hope that he is correct in his intrpretation of my last bone scan. Technichian- that was instructed to look for mets- says scan could be suggestive of.

 

The Med Onc says with a good ALkaline Phosphatase reading it is unlikely that the severe chest surface area pains are from mets. I am seeing a therapist and am having good luck wiping out the pain which probably is caused by Chronic Myofascial Pain disease- she has seen it before.

 

This does not rule out the possibility or probability of PCa mets as PSA last reading was 2.0 and previous 2.2. I had an RP 14 1/2 years ago so the PSA level theoreticaly should be near nothing.

 

As I am near 82, I really can't see going to any program that would weaken the body, create discomfort of its own, affect my moods, ambition, or brain capacity.

 

As in the article on heroic therapy in late years I tend to agree.

 

I do think some action may be desirable. I have a hard time finding Drs that Think anything but Lupron+!

 

Harold

Is this Prostasol or PC Spes?

Jodi


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: dominick c.vecchio

>Harold,

 

>Its not that necessary to see him. I have a doctor on the east coast who knows his work ( Dr Leibowitz that is) and he directs me what to do. Get a similar doc near you. But first read and look at the tapes and dvds. You will be better off for it.

Dominick

 

Thanks.

From reading from his site I am amazed at the completeness of his knowledge and impressed that he doesn't seem to be in the rut of one protocol for all!

 

Even the Med Onc I saw recently seemed to have his mind made up what to do should I have further PSA increase. I hope that he is correct in his intrpretation of my last bone scan. Technichian- that was instructed to look for mets- says scan could be suggestive of.

 

The Med Onc says with a good ALkaline Phosphatase reading it is unlikely that the severe chest surface area pains are from mets. I am seeing a therapist and am having good luck wiping out the pain which probably is caused by Chronic Myofascial Pain disease- she has seen it before.

 

This does not rule out the possibility or probability of PCa mets as PSA last reading was 2.0 and previous 2.2. I had an RP 14 1/2 years ago so the PSA level theoreticaly should be near nothing.

 

As I am near 82, I really can't see going to any program that would weaken the body, create discomfort of its own, affect my moods, ambition, or brain capacity.

 

As in the article on heroic therapy in late years I tend to agree.

 

I do think some action may be desirable. I have a hard time finding Drs that Think anything but Lupron+!

 

Harold

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill Chapman

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 2:31 PM

Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [NTPC Yahoo Group] Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group] Low T --High T--cause or kill cancer??

Seems to be the conclusion of Sammy's paper.  So the references to his paper verify the conclusion.

On 6/2/06, dominick c.vecchio < elvismlv@...> wrote:

Its a plausible argument but it needs more basis in fact. Has anyone even anecdotally verified this conclusion?

----- Original Message -----

From: swhwew@...

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:00 PM

Subject: [NTPC Yahoo Group] Low T --High T--cause or kill cancer??

makes sense.
low t   suggests it is being converted to estradiol and that causes
cancer.

high t suggests it is not being converted and being the direct antagonist to estradiol kills the cancer causer.

========================================
ALL INFORMATION APPEARING ON THIS NEWSGROUP REPRESENTS OPINIONS OFFERED BY NON-MEDICALLY TRAINED LAYPERSONS.  COMMENTS POSTED HERE SHOULD NEVER BE INTERPRETED AS MEDICAL ADVICE AND MUST ONLY BE USED AS BACKGROUND INFORMATION WHEN CONSULTING WITH A QUALIFIED CONSULTANT FROM A QUALIFIED MEDICAL PROFESSION.  FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS GROUP ALL POSTINGS MUST BE CONSIDERED TO BE THE ADVICE OF NON-MEDICALLY TRAINED LAYPEOPLE REGARDLESS OF ANY INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTOR'S MEDICAL OR NON-MEDICAL BACKGROUND.

Discussions on this web group in the United States are protected by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.  Attempts to persecute participants in this group for opinions stated will be considered a violation of the First Amendment and may be prosecuted as such.

-------------------------------

The "Natural Treatments for Prostate Cancer" Yahoo Newsgroup is an open forum for the sharing of all knowledge and information regarding natural treatments and remedies for Prostate Cancer. This group includes discussions of PC-SPES, Prostasol and any other natural products which contribute to prostate health.  All messages posted here are public domain and are accessible to anyone wishing to read them.  Members are represented by their Yahoo Profile name, not their e-mail address.  E-mail addresses are kept hidden to the best of our abilities.

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Bill Chapman <billc@...> 662-648-8436

----- Original Message -----

From: Harold

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 1:46 PM

Subject: Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group] +AM discussion on Jodi's question

From: dominick c.vecchio

>Try www.prostateweb.com/publications.html 

 

That or just www.prostateweb.com  seems to work.

 

A lot of good info there. I wish I wasn't half a continent away from him!

 

Harold

Dominick
Thanks for the response.
I am somewhat confused because based on what you write it would seem that the
primary (in the prostate?) tumor should never be removed since it stifles the
growth of secondary (ouside the prostate?) metastatic tumors.
Why wouldn't Liebowitz use PCAC as a first line defense for all PCa, or is
this his current protocol rather than triple hormonal therapy (intermittent if
there is recurrence)?
Ed Brenner

Date: Fri Jun 2, 2006 8:40 am (PDT)
From: "dominick c.vecchio" elvismlv@...
Subject: Re: Dr. Liebowitz


Ed,
It stands for Prostate Cancer Antiangiogenic Cocktail and is a paper Dr
Leibowitz wrote based on the Angiogenisis theory of Dr Judah Folkman.
Simply, The primary tumor releases substances or factors which stunt growth
of the secondary tumor.These factors restrict the creation of a blood supply to
the secondary tumor at which point it cannot continue to grow. When the
primary tumor is removed the secoindart tumor can resume growth bescause the
factors from the primary tumor are no longer presnt.
The angiogenic cocktail restricts blood supply to the tumor and controls
cancer proliferation any where in the body in  the prostate or beyond and
suports
the primary and secondary tumor interaction.
The cocktail consists of several low dose drugs which in a metastatic
patients does the job of lowering PSA and killing off cancer cells., The drugs
or
chemotherapeutic agents are very well tolerated.
There is no hair loss, diarhea, lethargy  or symptoms commonly found in
conventional chemo and the results are excellent even for hopeless cases.
Dominick
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: steeleglas@...
   To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:04 PM
   Subject: [NTPC Yahoo Group] Dr. Liebowitz


   Dominick
   What is Dr. Robert Liebowitz's website (I couldn't find it using Google)
and
   what does the acronym PAAC stand for?
   Ed Brenner

"Seewise"
I suggest that you check your PSA and Testosterone monthly (if you don't
already) for as long as it takes for you to establish the effectiveness of
#3491.
Nipple sensitivity is not sufficiently objective.
Did KWD's enclosed note state anything significant?
Ed Brenner

    Date: Thu Jun 1, 2006 8:56 am (PDT)
    From: "seerwise" seerwise@...
Subject: Re: Prostasol Batch No 3491 from Mexico-vs previous batch No 3307


Question to Harry and group.

Does anyone have experience with this Lot No 3491 ? Reason I ask is
that I recently got 5 bottles that I ordered from Abby at the number
Harry had mentioned. The shipping label showed it was sent via UPS
from Chula Vista California although inside there was a prescription
from the Mexican M.D and a note from Donsbach. I have been trying the
new batch at the same 1 pill a day I was using with Lot No 3307 and
finding that, unlike 3307, No. 3491 is not producing the nipple
sensitivity that even 1 pill a day of the earlier batch produced. So I
am wondering if the new batch is an effective one or is like the first
batch I got from Donsbach in April 2005 that appeared not to work. I
have used the level of nipple sensitivity for the last six months as
an indication of how many pills to take daily. As noted in earlier
messages, after starting with Prostasol in April 2005 my PSA went from
33.5 down to 0.28 in about 4 months and T went down from around 550 to
  10. PSA has stayed between 0.3 and 0.4 since then and T had gone up
to 400 a month ago. I will have a new PSA Reading in a couple of
weeks. But am wondering about the efficacy of Lot No. 3491. Any
comments from Harry or other members of this group?
Cheers,
Seerwise

--- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, steeleglas@... wrote:
>
> Howie
> If you wish to try European prostasol go to www.med-pro.org. Contact
them
> (they are the European "manufacurers") via email and see if they
will sell small
> quantities to you directly in the US under the US "Compassionate
Drug" law.
> This is the same law being utilized to sell the prostasol from
Mexico in the US.
> Ed Brenner
>

TO ALL,  PAACT stand for  Patient Advocates for the Advancement of
Prostate Cancer Treatment.  The group was founded by Mr. Lloyd Ney
about 15 years ago.  He has since died but I believe his wife is still
involved.
They publish a great newsletter ( 616-453-1477).  They are primarily
hormone treatment oriented and Dr. Liebowitz frequently writes articles
for them.  Their address is:  POB 141695  Grand Rapids MI. 49514.

									 Harry K


On Friday, June 2, 2006, at 11:38  AM, dominick c.vecchio wrote:

> Ed,
> It stands for Prostate Cancer Antiangiogenic Cocktail and is a paper
> Dr Leibowitz wrote based on the Angiogenisis theory of Dr Judah
> Folkman.
> Simply, The primary tumor releases substances or factors which stunt
> growth of the secondary tumor.These factors restrict the creation of a
> blood supply to the secondary tumor at which point it cannot continue
> to grow. When the primary tumor is removed the secoindart tumor can
> resume growth bescause the factors from the primary tumor are no
> longer presnt.
> The angiogenic cocktail restricts blood supply to the tumor and
> controls cancer proliferation any where in the body in  the prostate
> or beyond and suports the primary and secondary tumor interaction.
> The cocktail consists of several low dose drugs which in a metastatic
> patients does the job of lowering PSA and killing off cancer cells.,
> The drugs or chemotherapeutic agents are very well tolerated.
> There is no hair loss, diarhea, lethargy  or symptoms commonly found
> in conventional chemo and the results are excellent even for hopeless
> cases.
> Dominick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: steeleglas@...
> To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:04 PM
> Subject: [NTPC Yahoo Group] Dr. Liebowitz
>
> Dominick
> What is Dr. Robert Liebowitz's website (I couldn't find it using
> Google) and
> what does the acronym PAAC stand for?
> Ed Brenner
>
> From: "dominick c.vecchio" elvismlv@...
>
> Date: Tue May 30, 2006 2:35pm(PDT)
>
>
> Read Dr Leibowitz paper on the PAAC cocktail which is his form of
> Chemo. You
> can read in less than 15 minutes and will open your eyes to what can
> be done
> for your Dad.
>
> Dominick
>
>  
>
>
> ========================================
> ALL INFORMATION APPEARING ON THIS NEWSGROUP REPRESENTS OPINIONS
> OFFERED BY NON-MEDICALLY TRAINED LAYPERSONS.  COMMENTS POSTED HERE
> SHOULD NEVER BE INTERPRETED AS MEDICAL ADVICE AND MUST ONLY BE USED AS
> BACKGROUND INFORMATION WHEN CONSULTING WITH A QUALIFIED CONSULTANT
> FROM A QUALIFIED MEDICAL PROFESSION.  FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS GROUP
> ALL POSTINGS MUST BE CONSIDERED TO BE THE ADVICE OF NON-MEDICALLY
> TRAINED LAYPEOPLE REGARDLESS OF ANY INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTOR'S MEDICAL
> OR NON-MEDICAL BACKGROUND.
>
> Discussions on this web group in the United States are protected by
> the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.  Attempts to
> persecute participants in this group for opinions stated will be
> considered a violation of the First Amendment and may be prosecuted as
> such.
>
> -------------------------------
>
> The "Natural Treatments for Prostate Cancer" Yahoo Newsgroup is an
> open forum for the sharing of all knowledge and information regarding
> natural treatments and remedies for Prostate Cancer. This group
> includes discussions of PC-SPES, Prostasol and any other natural
> products which contribute to prostate health.  All messages posted
> here are public domain and are accessible to anyone wishing to read
> them.  Members are represented by their Yahoo Profile name, not their
> e-mail address.  E-mail addresses are kept hidden to the best of our
> abilities.
>
> To SUBSCRIBE: send e-mail to
> natural_prostate_treatments-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to:
> natural_prostate_treatments-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> The Group web page is: 
> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/natural_prostate_treatments/
> All messages can be viewed from this page.
>
> Information on Prostasol is available at
> http://www.donsbach.com/products/male.htm
>
> Phone number of an independent Prostasol distributor:  201-432-0169
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
<image.tiff>
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> +  Visit your group "natural_prostate_treatments" on the web.
>  
> +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  natural_prostate_treatments-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>

Hi Everyone,  Someone was asking for Ken's contact info. I have tried
to send it twice but it keeps reappearing with a failure notice. Hope
this works.  Ann

This was posted on NTPC a few weeks ago.
> To all:
> I am told it is the same formula.  The cost is $105.00US, for a
> sixty capsule bottle,plus $15.00US for shipping up to four bottles
> The formula is as follows:
> Ganidema Lucidum            99.2mg
> Scutellaria baicalensis        51.2mg
> Rabdosia rebescens           35.2mg
> Isatis indogotica                 32.0mg
> Dendranthema morifolium    25.6mg
> Panax ginseng                   25.6mg
> Serenoa repens                  19.2mg
> Glycyrrhiza glabra                3.2mg
>
> Please contact me off line.
> Cheers
> Ken Backwell (Sr)
> Tel  613 236 2400
> Fax 613 234 1207
> Cell 613 355 6447

From: dominick c.vecchio

>Try www.prostateweb.com/publications.html 

 

That or just www.prostateweb.com  seems to work.

 

A lot of good info there. I wish I wasn't half a continent away from him!

 

Harold

----- Original Message -----

From: swhwew@...

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:00 PM

Subject: [NTPC Yahoo Group] Low T --High T--cause or kill cancer??

makes sense.
low t   suggests it is being converted to estradiol and that causes
cancer.

high t suggests it is not being converted and being the direct antagonist to estradiol kills the cancer causer.

----- Original Message -----

From: steeleglas@...

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:04 PM

Subject: [NTPC Yahoo Group] Dr. Liebowitz

Dominick
What is Dr. Robert Liebowitz's website (I couldn't find it using Google) and
what does the acronym PAAC stand for?
Ed Brenner

From: "dominick c.vecchio" elvismlv@...

Date: Tue May 30, 2006 2:35pm(PDT)


Read Dr Leibowitz paper on the PAAC cocktail which is his form of Chemo. You
can read in less than 15 minutes and will open your eyes to what can be done
for your Dad.

Dominick

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Jodi Cuppy

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 6:55 PM

Subject: Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group] try something and check PSA

Ann,

How or where do you find "what to throw at it"?  I
read Sammy's e-book and at first didn't understand it
but I read it again and with the insight you all have
provided through group, I realize y'all are onto
something here.  My Dad has a high gleason, high psa
w/ bone met and he suggests that people who can't
experiment while in a watchful waiting mode to use
prostasol or even a conventional mode of treatment
while experimenting?  My Dad currently has a viadur
hormone implant in his arm which keeps his
testosterone suppressed and they just added Casodex
(antiandrogin)last Friday.  He will have a Zometa
infusion tomorrow and they want to start him on his
first round of Taxotere this weekend.  I was wondering
if we could experiment while he was on chemo and maybe
getting some sort of response but how will all the
conventional treatments work into this senerio?  Okay,
everyone... I'd really like to hear your thoughts on
this and what you'd do if you were in this situation.
I respect each one of you and I am so grateful for all
that I'm learning from this group and the support and
hope that I get from you all.

Thanks,
Jodi

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Jodi Cuppy

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 3:48 PM

Subject: [NTPC Yahoo Group] Natural Strategies for Cancer Patients

Dominick,

I took a look at the "Natural Strategies for Cancer
Patients" and it looks good but I was wondering if it
varies on the type of cancer you have? 

I've heard that natural therpies can also interfere
with the success of chemotherapy (in some patients)...
I don't know?

I was actually wondering if "prostasol" would work
with "chemotherapy"?  I think I saw something like
that on letstalk w/ Dr. D.  I actually Googled it
under "prostasol and chemotherapy" and letstalk w/ Dr.
D. came up.

Jodi


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Harold

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:19 PM

Subject: Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group] +AM discussion on Jodi's question

Hi Dominic,

 

I would like to access the site you mention but couldn't find it and google didn't help!

 

I would appreciate a link.

 

Thank You

 

Harold

From: dominick c.vecchio

>Do me a favor and read his paper. Its called,"testosterone levels and prostate cancer-the higher,the better?. Its on his website. Dr Leibowitz Compasionate oncology. Look at the page 3 and the article in the British Journal of Urology,May 2002"The Correlation obetween pretreatment serum hormone(T)Levels and treatment outcome for patients with prostate cancer and bony metastasis

At the bottom of page 3 look at the International Journal of Andrology article and the following analysis he shows there on page 4.

Dom

----- Original Message -----

From: tinycamera1

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:51 PM

Subject: [NTPC Yahoo Group] +AM discussion on Jodi's question

Dom:

What I think you meant to say is that it is counter-intuitive.  After
reading Sammy's paper carefully, I understand that PCa thrives in a
testosterone range of about 300 to about 700, plus or minus.  when
you're above that or below than, it is easier to control. 

The big problem is how to get your T that high, given that most
doctors won't have anything to do with this appoach.  Exercise and
DHEA can only do so much, believe me!

David


--- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, "dominick
c.vecchio" <elvismlv@...> wrote:
>
> None of this makes sense thats why it is difficult to grasp.
> How can more of the thing that you are trying to suppress make you
better off. What we dont see is our bodies response to removal of T or
gradual reduction of it. The body adapts so we have to change the
strategy to suppres the PCa. Its just that there are different cell
lines and different people who respond differently. This has to be
nailed down as to who would be benefitted by AM+.
> I have a large population of Hormone sensitive cells which go into
hiding when I remove T. If I add T ill probably knock off  lots of PCa
cells because they will be overwhelmed by so much T.
> If you have no AIPC this game plan might work, but we cannot predict
it with certainty. You might build more AIPC than you would want and
incur worse PCa.
> Its like what they call in firefighting backfire. You create a fire
in the opposite direction and snuff out the original fire.
> Repeated exposurures to to high T and low T controls PCa but there
is a limit. Eventually this trigger stops working for some but not all.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Jodi Cuppy
>   To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 7:08 PM
>   Subject: Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group] Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group] What's the
best supplement to counter gynocomastia
>
>
>   I received Sammy's e-book today and I totally didn't
>   understand it.  It was way above my train of
>   thought... unfortuanately.
>
>   Jodi
>
>   __________________________________________________
>   Do You Yahoo!?
>   Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>   http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>   ========================================
>   ALL INFORMATION APPEARING ON THIS NEWSGROUP REPRESENTS OPINIONS
OFFERED BY NON-MEDICALLY TRAINED LAYPERSONS.  COMMENTS POSTED HERE
SHOULD NEVER BE INTERPRETED AS MEDICAL ADVICE AND MUST ONLY BE USED AS
BACKGROUND INFORMATION WHEN CONSULTING WITH A QUALIFIED CONSULTANT
FROM A QUALIFIED MEDICAL PROFESSION.  FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS GROUP
ALL POSTINGS MUST BE CONSIDERED TO BE THE ADVICE OF NON-MEDICALLY
TRAINED LAYPEOPLE REGARDLESS OF ANY INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTOR'S MEDICAL
OR NON-MEDICAL BACKGROUND.
>
>   Discussions on this web group in the United States are protected
by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.  Attempts to
persecute participants in this group for opinions stated will be
considered a violation of the First Amendment and may be prosecuted as
such.
>
>   -------------------------------
>
>   The "Natural Treatments for Prostate Cancer" Yahoo Newsgroup is an
open forum for the sharing of all knowledge and information regarding
natural treatments and remedies for Prostate Cancer. This group
includes discussions of PC-SPES, Prostasol and any other natural
products which contribute to prostate health.  All messages posted
here are public domain and are accessible to anyone wishing to read
them.  Members are represented by their Yahoo Profile name, not their
e-mail address.  E-mail addresses are kept hidden to the best of our
abilities.
>
>   To SUBSCRIBE: send e-mail to
natural_prostate_treatments-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>   To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to:
>   natural_prostate_treatments-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>   The Group web page is:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/natural_prostate_treatments/
>   All messages can be viewed from this page.
>
>   Information on Prostasol is available at
http://www.donsbach.com/products/male.htm
>
>   Phone number of an independent Prostasol distributor:  201-432-0169
>
>
>
>   SPONSORED LINKS Prostate cancer support  Prostate cancer  Prostate
cancer support group 
>         Prostate cancer diagnosis  Prostate cancer information
Prostate cancer survival 
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>     a..  Visit your group "natural_prostate_treatments" on the web.
>      
>     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>      natural_prostate_treatments-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>      
>     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/352 - Release Date: 5/30/2006

----- Original Message -----

From: Jodi Cuppy

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:28 PM

Subject: Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group] Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group] What's the best supplement to counter gynocomastia

Another risk that's hard to take with a gleason 10,
high psa and bone met.

Jodi


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Jodi Cuppy

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:20 PM

Subject: Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group] +AM discussion on Jodi's question

I hate it that everything is such a risk!

Jodi




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Thanks Harry--I will keep you and the group informed through this site.
Seerwise

--- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, Harry Kessel
<hkessel@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Seerwise,  A little less than  200 of my former customers have
> purchased the new lot # 3491 and I asked all of them to stay in touch
> with me, especially if they have any problems as I will act on their
> behalf if necessary.  So far no one has contacted me.  Maybe it is too
> soon.   I am on lot # 3491 myself and  I don't feel any difference from
> lot # 3311 the previous lot.
> If I start getting reports in I will post it here,  good or bad.
>
>                                                 Harry K
>
>
> On Thursday, June 1, 2006, at 10:09  AM, seerwise wrote:
>
> > Question to Harry and group.
> >
> > Does anyone have experience with this Lot No 3491 ? Reason I ask is
> > that I recently got 5 bottles that I ordered from Abby at the number
> > Harry had mentioned. The shipping label showed it was sent via UPS
> > from Chula Vista California although inside there was a prescription
> > from the Mexican M.D and a note from Donsbach. I have been trying the
> > new batch at the same 1 pill a day I was using with Lot No 3307 and
> > finding that, unlike 3307, No. 3491 is not producing the nipple
> > sensitivity that even 1 pill a day of the earlier batch produced. So I
> > am wondering if the new batch is an effective one or is like the first
> > batch I got from Donsbach in April 2005 that appeared not to work. I
> > have used the level of nipple sensitivity for the last six months as
> > an indication of how many pills to take daily. As noted in earlier
> > messages, after starting with Prostasol in April 2005 my PSA went from
> > 33.5 down to 0.28 in about 4 months and T went down from around 550 to
> >  10. PSA has stayed between 0.3 and 0.4 since then and T had gone up
> > to 400 a month ago. I will have a new PSA Reading in a couple of
> > weeks. But am wondering about the efficacy of Lot No. 3491. Any
> > comments from Harry or other members of this group?
> > Cheers,
> > Seerwise
> >
> > --- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, steeleglas@
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Howie
> >> If you wish to try European prostasol go to www.med-pro.org. Contact
> > them
> >> (they are the European "manufacurers") via email and see if they
> > will sell small
> >> quantities to you directly in the US under the US "Compassionate
> > Drug" law.
> >> This is the same law being utilized to sell the prostasol from
> > Mexico in the US.
> >> Ed Brenner
> >>
> >>
> >>     From: "desertrunner99" desertrunner99@
> >>
> >>     Date: Tue May 30, 2006 11:33am(PDT)
> >>
> >> Subject: Ann & Ed, Thank you - Re: Not sure which Prostasol to
> > buy...need hel
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you Ann and Ed.  I sincerely appreciate your helpful, indepth
> >>
> >> replies.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ann, by chance, do you know how I can contact the person in Canada
> >>
> >> either by phone or email, regarding the ordering of the Holland
> >>
> >> Prostasol?
> >>
> >>
> >> Many thanks and God Bless,
> >>
> >> Howie
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ========================================
> > ALL INFORMATION APPEARING ON THIS NEWSGROUP REPRESENTS OPINIONS
> > OFFERED BY NON-MEDICALLY TRAINED LAYPERSONS.  COMMENTS POSTED HERE
> > SHOULD NEVER BE INTERPRETED AS MEDICAL ADVICE AND MUST ONLY BE
USED AS
> > BACKGROUND INFORMATION WHEN CONSULTING WITH A QUALIFIED CONSULTANT
> > FROM A QUALIFIED MEDICAL PROFESSION.  FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS GROUP
> > ALL POSTINGS MUST BE CONSIDERED TO BE THE ADVICE OF NON-MEDICALLY
> > TRAINED LAYPEOPLE REGARDLESS OF ANY INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTOR'S MEDICAL
> > OR NON-MEDICAL BACKGROUND.
> >
> > Discussions on this web group in the United States are protected by
> > the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.  Attempts to
> > persecute participants in this group for opinions stated will be
> > considered a violation of the First Amendment and may be
prosecuted as
> > such.
> >
> > -------------------------------
> >
> > The "Natural Treatments for Prostate Cancer" Yahoo Newsgroup is an
> > open forum for the sharing of all knowledge and information regarding
> > natural treatments and remedies for Prostate Cancer. This group
> > includes discussions of PC-SPES, Prostasol and any other natural
> > products which contribute to prostate health.  All messages posted
> > here are public domain and are accessible to anyone wishing to read
> > them.  Members are represented by their Yahoo Profile name, not their
> > e-mail address.  E-mail addresses are kept hidden to the best of our
> > abilities.
> >
> > To SUBSCRIBE: send e-mail to
> > natural_prostate_treatments-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to:
> > natural_prostate_treatments-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > The Group web page is: 
> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/natural_prostate_treatments/
> > All messages can be viewed from this page.
> >
> > Information on Prostasol is available at
> > http://www.donsbach.com/products/male.htm
> >
> > Phone number of an independent Prostasol distributor:  201-432-0169
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

SPONSORED LINKS

Prostate cancer support	Prostate cancer	Prostate cancer support group
Prostate cancer diagnosis	Prostate cancer information	Prostate cancer survival

Thanks Harry--I will keep you and the group informed through this site.
Seerwise

--- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, Harry Kessel
<hkessel@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Seerwise,  A little less than  200 of my former customers have
> purchased the new lot # 3491 and I asked all of them to stay in touch
> with me, especially if they have any problems as I will act on their
> behalf if necessary.  So far no one has contacted me.  Maybe it is too
> soon.   I am on lot # 3491 myself and  I don't feel any difference from
> lot # 3311 the previous lot.
> If I start getting reports in I will post it here,  good or bad.
>
> 							 Harry K
>
>
> On Thursday, June 1, 2006, at 10:09  AM, seerwise wrote:
>
> > Question to Harry and group.
> >
> > Does anyone have experience with this Lot No 3491 ? Reason I ask is
> > that I recently got 5 bottles that I ordered from Abby at the number
> > Harry had mentioned. The shipping label showed it was sent via UPS
> > from Chula Vista California although inside there was a prescription
> > from the Mexican M.D and a note from Donsbach. I have been trying the
> > new batch at the same 1 pill a day I was using with Lot No 3307 and
> > finding that, unlike 3307, No. 3491 is not producing the nipple
> > sensitivity that even 1 pill a day of the earlier batch produced. So I
> > am wondering if the new batch is an effective one or is like the first
> > batch I got from Donsbach in April 2005 that appeared not to work. I
> > have used the level of nipple sensitivity for the last six months as
> > an indication of how many pills to take daily. As noted in earlier
> > messages, after starting with Prostasol in April 2005 my PSA went from
> > 33.5 down to 0.28 in about 4 months and T went down from around 550 to
> >  10. PSA has stayed between 0.3 and 0.4 since then and T had gone up
> > to 400 a month ago. I will have a new PSA Reading in a couple of
> > weeks. But am wondering about the efficacy of Lot No. 3491. Any
> > comments from Harry or other members of this group?
> > Cheers,
> > Seerwise
> >
> > --- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, steeleglas@
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Howie
> >> If you wish to try European prostasol go to www.med-pro.org. Contact
> > them
> >> (they are the European "manufacurers") via email and see if they
> > will sell small
> >> quantities to you directly in the US under the US "Compassionate
> > Drug" law.
> >> This is the same law being utilized to sell the prostasol from
> > Mexico in the US.
> >> Ed Brenner
> >>
> >>
> >>     From: "desertrunner99" desertrunner99@
> >>
> >>     Date: Tue May 30, 2006 11:33am(PDT)
> >>
> >> Subject: Ann & Ed, Thank you - Re: Not sure which Prostasol to
> > buy...need hel
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you Ann and Ed.  I sincerely appreciate your helpful, indepth
> >>
> >> replies.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ann, by chance, do you know how I can contact the person in Canada
> >>
> >> either by phone or email, regarding the ordering of the Holland
> >>
> >> Prostasol?
> >>
> >>
> >> Many thanks and God Bless,
> >>
> >> Howie
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ========================================
> > ALL INFORMATION APPEARING ON THIS NEWSGROUP REPRESENTS OPINIONS
> > OFFERED BY NON-MEDICALLY TRAINED LAYPERSONS.  COMMENTS POSTED HERE
> > SHOULD NEVER BE INTERPRETED AS MEDICAL ADVICE AND MUST ONLY BE
USED AS
> > BACKGROUND INFORMATION WHEN CONSULTING WITH A QUALIFIED CONSULTANT
> > FROM A QUALIFIED MEDICAL PROFESSION.  FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS GROUP
> > ALL POSTINGS MUST BE CONSIDERED TO BE THE ADVICE OF NON-MEDICALLY
> > TRAINED LAYPEOPLE REGARDLESS OF ANY INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTOR'S MEDICAL
> > OR NON-MEDICAL BACKGROUND.
> >
> > Discussions on this web group in the United States are protected by
> > the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.  Attempts to
> > persecute participants in this group for opinions stated will be
> > considered a violation of the First Amendment and may be
prosecuted as
> > such.
> >
> > -------------------------------
> >
> > The "Natural Treatments for Prostate Cancer" Yahoo Newsgroup is an
> > open forum for the sharing of all knowledge and information regarding
> > natural treatments and remedies for Prostate Cancer. This group
> > includes discussions of PC-SPES, Prostasol and any other natural
> > products which contribute to prostate health.  All messages posted
> > here are public domain and are accessible to anyone wishing to read
> > them.  Members are represented by their Yahoo Profile name, not their
> > e-mail address.  E-mail addresses are kept hidden to the best of our
> > abilities.
> >
> > To SUBSCRIBE: send e-mail to
> > natural_prostate_treatments-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to:
> > natural_prostate_treatments-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > The Group web page is:
> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/natural_prostate_treatments/
> > All messages can be viewed from this page.
> >
> > Information on Prostasol is available at
> > http://www.donsbach.com/products/male.htm
> >
> > Phone number of an independent Prostasol distributor:  201-432-0169
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

>Geoff,
>
>I was curious about the six years you controlled your
>psa with prostasol- was it ever "pc-spes" or was it
>always "prostasol"?


Jodi,

When I switched from PC-SPES it was to PC Plus (also by Donsbach)
which later was renamed Prostasol after a few formula changes.

Geoff

Hi Seerwise,  A little less than  200 of my former customers have
purchased the new lot # 3491 and I asked all of them to stay in touch
with me, especially if they have any problems as I will act on their
behalf if necessary.  So far no one has contacted me.  Maybe it is too
soon.   I am on lot # 3491 myself and  I don't feel any difference from
lot # 3311 the previous lot.
If I start getting reports in I will post it here,  good or bad.

								 Harry K


On Thursday, June 1, 2006, at 10:09  AM, seerwise wrote:

> Question to Harry and group.
>
> Does anyone have experience with this Lot No 3491 ? Reason I ask is
> that I recently got 5 bottles that I ordered from Abby at the number
> Harry had mentioned. The shipping label showed it was sent via UPS
> from Chula Vista California although inside there was a prescription
> from the Mexican M.D and a note from Donsbach. I have been trying the
> new batch at the same 1 pill a day I was using with Lot No 3307 and
> finding that, unlike 3307, No. 3491 is not producing the nipple
> sensitivity that even 1 pill a day of the earlier batch produced. So I
> am wondering if the new batch is an effective one or is like the first
> batch I got from Donsbach in April 2005 that appeared not to work. I
> have used the level of nipple sensitivity for the last six months as
> an indication of how many pills to take daily. As noted in earlier
> messages, after starting with Prostasol in April 2005 my PSA went from
> 33.5 down to 0.28 in about 4 months and T went down from around 550 to
>  10. PSA has stayed between 0.3 and 0.4 since then and T had gone up
> to 400 a month ago. I will have a new PSA Reading in a couple of
> weeks. But am wondering about the efficacy of Lot No. 3491. Any
> comments from Harry or other members of this group?
> Cheers,
> Seerwise
>
> --- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, steeleglas@...
> wrote:
>>
>> Howie
>> If you wish to try European prostasol go to www.med-pro.org. Contact
> them
>> (they are the European "manufacurers") via email and see if they
> will sell small
>> quantities to you directly in the US under the US "Compassionate
> Drug" law.
>> This is the same law being utilized to sell the prostasol from
> Mexico in the US.
>> Ed Brenner
>>
>>
>>     From: "desertrunner99" desertrunner99@...
>>
>>     Date: Tue May 30, 2006 11:33am(PDT)
>>
>> Subject: Ann & Ed, Thank you - Re: Not sure which Prostasol to
> buy...need hel
>>
>>
>> Thank you Ann and Ed.  I sincerely appreciate your helpful, indepth
>>
>> replies.
>>
>>
>> Ann, by chance, do you know how I can contact the person in Canada
>>
>> either by phone or email, regarding the ordering of the Holland
>>
>> Prostasol?
>>
>>
>> Many thanks and God Bless,
>>
>> Howie
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ========================================
> ALL INFORMATION APPEARING ON THIS NEWSGROUP REPRESENTS OPINIONS
> OFFERED BY NON-MEDICALLY TRAINED LAYPERSONS.  COMMENTS POSTED HERE
> SHOULD NEVER BE INTERPRETED AS MEDICAL ADVICE AND MUST ONLY BE USED AS
> BACKGROUND INFORMATION WHEN CONSULTING WITH A QUALIFIED CONSULTANT
> FROM A QUALIFIED MEDICAL PROFESSION.  FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS GROUP
> ALL POSTINGS MUST BE CONSIDERED TO BE THE ADVICE OF NON-MEDICALLY
> TRAINED LAYPEOPLE REGARDLESS OF ANY INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTOR'S MEDICAL
> OR NON-MEDICAL BACKGROUND.
>
> Discussions on this web group in the United States are protected by
> the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.  Attempts to
> persecute participants in this group for opinions stated will be
> considered a violation of the First Amendment and may be prosecuted as
> such.
>
> -------------------------------
>
> The "Natural Treatments for Prostate Cancer" Yahoo Newsgroup is an
> open forum for the sharing of all knowledge and information regarding
> natural treatments and remedies for Prostate Cancer. This group
> includes discussions of PC-SPES, Prostasol and any other natural
> products which contribute to prostate health.  All messages posted
> here are public domain and are accessible to anyone wishing to read
> them.  Members are represented by their Yahoo Profile name, not their
> e-mail address.  E-mail addresses are kept hidden to the best of our
> abilities.
>
> To SUBSCRIBE: send e-mail to
> natural_prostate_treatments-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE: send an email to:
> natural_prostate_treatments-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> The Group web page is:
> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/natural_prostate_treatments/
> All messages can be viewed from this page.
>
> Information on Prostasol is available at
> http://www.donsbach.com/products/male.htm
>
> Phone number of an independent Prostasol distributor:  201-432-0169
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Seerwise:

many of use found a direct correlation between the nipple sensitivity
and a drop in PSA.  In fact, that is how many men can tell if it's
working.

David


--- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, "seerwise"
<seerwise@...> wrote:
>
> Question to Harry and group.
>
> Does anyone have experience with this Lot No 3491 ? Reason I ask is
> that I recently got 5 bottles that I ordered from Abby at the number
> Harry had mentioned. The shipping label showed it was sent via UPS
> from Chula Vista California although inside there was a prescription
> from the Mexican M.D and a note from Donsbach. I have been trying the
> new batch at the same 1 pill a day I was using with Lot No 3307 and
> finding that, unlike 3307, No. 3491 is not producing the nipple
> sensitivity that even 1 pill a day of the earlier batch produced. So I
> am wondering if the new batch is an effective one or is like the first
> batch I got from Donsbach in April 2005 that appeared not to work. I
> have used the level of nipple sensitivity for the last six months as
> an indication of how many pills to take daily. As noted in earlier
> messages, after starting with Prostasol in April 2005 my PSA went from
> 33.5 down to 0.28 in about 4 months and T went down from around 550 to
>  10. PSA has stayed between 0.3 and 0.4 since then and T had gone up
> to 400 a month ago. I will have a new PSA Reading in a couple of
> weeks. But am wondering about the efficacy of Lot No. 3491. Any
> comments from Harry or other members of this group?
> Cheers,
> Seerwise
>
> --- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, steeleglas@ wrote:
> >
> > Howie
> > If you wish to try European prostasol go to www.med-pro.org. Contact
> them
> > (they are the European "manufacurers") via email and see if they
> will sell small
> > quantities to you directly in the US under the US "Compassionate
> Drug" law.
> > This is the same law being utilized to sell the prostasol from
> Mexico in the US.
> > Ed Brenner
> >
> >
> >     From: "desertrunner99" desertrunner99@
> >
> >     Date: Tue May 30, 2006 11:33am(PDT)
> >
> > Subject: Ann & Ed, Thank you - Re: Not sure which Prostasol to
> buy...need hel
> >
> >
> > Thank you Ann and Ed.  I sincerely appreciate your helpful, indepth
> >
> > replies.
> >
> >
> > Ann, by chance, do you know how I can contact the person in Canada
> >
> > either by phone or email, regarding the ordering of the Holland
> >
> > Prostasol?
> >
> >
> > Many thanks and God Bless,
> >
> > Howie
> >
>

Question to Harry and group.

Does anyone have experience with this Lot No 3491 ? Reason I ask is
that I recently got 5 bottles that I ordered from Abby at the number
Harry had mentioned. The shipping label showed it was sent via UPS
from Chula Vista California although inside there was a prescription
from the Mexican M.D and a note from Donsbach. I have been trying the
new batch at the same 1 pill a day I was using with Lot No 3307 and
finding that, unlike 3307, No. 3491 is not producing the nipple
sensitivity that even 1 pill a day of the earlier batch produced. So I
am wondering if the new batch is an effective one or is like the first
batch I got from Donsbach in April 2005 that appeared not to work. I
have used the level of nipple sensitivity for the last six months as
an indication of how many pills to take daily. As noted in earlier
messages, after starting with Prostasol in April 2005 my PSA went from
33.5 down to 0.28 in about 4 months and T went down from around 550 to
  10. PSA has stayed between 0.3 and 0.4 since then and T had gone up
to 400 a month ago. I will have a new PSA Reading in a couple of
weeks. But am wondering about the efficacy of Lot No. 3491. Any
comments from Harry or other members of this group?
Cheers,
Seerwise

--- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, steeleglas@... wrote:
>
> Howie
> If you wish to try European prostasol go to www.med-pro.org. Contact
them
> (they are the European "manufacurers") via email and see if they
will sell small
> quantities to you directly in the US under the US "Compassionate
Drug" law.
> This is the same law being utilized to sell the prostasol from
Mexico in the US.
> Ed Brenner
>
>
>     From: "desertrunner99" desertrunner99@...
>
>     Date: Tue May 30, 2006 11:33am(PDT)
>
> Subject: Ann & Ed, Thank you - Re: Not sure which Prostasol to
buy...need hel
>
>
> Thank you Ann and Ed.  I sincerely appreciate your helpful, indepth
>
> replies.
>
>
> Ann, by chance, do you know how I can contact the person in Canada
>
> either by phone or email, regarding the ordering of the Holland
>
> Prostasol?
>
>
> Many thanks and God Bless,
>
> Howie
>

Jodi,

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you.   Lots of
appointments this week.  My answers to your questions are
interspersed below.

>Geoff,
>
>Thanks for sharing.  Your e-mail was quite helpful.
>
>I was curious about the six years you controlled your
>psa with prostasol- was it ever "pc-spes" or was it
>always "prostasol"?

I did the original PC-SPES as long as it was available, from 11/99 to
about 1/02.  Then I switched to Prostasol, which worked even better
for a while, but subsequent batches were very uneven in
effectiveness, and it finally stopped working for me in early '05.

>Also, what was your experience with "taxotere and high
>dose calcitrol"?  Your over all health and age when
>you started chemo?  Were the side effects tolerable?
>Do you feel it was safe?

I am 60.  My overall health is good, but I'm terribly out of shape.
I can't seem to get on a regular exercise program.  Anyway, chemo was
hard on me in two main ways:  intense diarrhea from my second
treatment onwards (unusual with taxotere) and  intense feelings of
toxicity and fatigue.  The combination of diarrhea, toxicity, and
fatigue made me switch from high dose taxotere every 3 weeks to low
dose every week.  I switched after 3 high doses, and then did 9 low
doses.  Even with the low doses the diarrhea continued (but was more
manageable) and the fatigue actually increased (during the last month
especially), but I didn't feel as toxic and could actually function
pretty well for a few hours a day.  If the treatment had actually
worked as I was hoping (i.e., get me to undetectable PSA), I would
feel it was worth it.  Since it didn't get me there, I'm not so sure.
I'm just hoping it did some good.  Despite the side effects, which
seem relatively minor compared to some other, harsher types of chemo,
it did feel safe.

One thing that helped with the side effects of the diarrhea (loss of
electrolytes, mental confusion, fatigue) was Twin Labs Liqui-K
(potassium in solution).  I took 1.5 gm/day and immediately felt the
improvement.  At the advice of my alternative practitioner, I'm
continuing to take it (though now in pill form, as my digestion has
recovered and the pills are more convenient), as he claims it helps
my body fight the cancer, as well.

One miracle:  A week and a half after I finished chemo, and was still
looking and feeling like death warmed over, a friend offered me a
Reiki treatment (a type of energetic healing).  After 20 minutes my
chemo fatigue was completely gone, as if it had never happened.  It
never came back.

One thing that I didn't really understand before doing chemo is how
much it would trash my immune system.  Although I used nupogen and
neulasta when needed to keep my white count up, and aranesp to keep
up the red count, my counts are still low (when I'm not taking the
leukine) 2 months later.  Furthermore,  my alternative consultant has
found that I am not able to make effective use of certain immune
stimulating supplements, simply because my immune system is now too
weak to effectively respond to them.  On the other hand, he still
says doing the chemo when I did was necessary, the right thing to do.
It's tough that it diminished the effectiveness of later alternative
therapy.  Had I known this, it would have made the choice to do chemo
harder.

>Also, why did you start on Zometa and then Aredia,
>etc.  Was there a problem?

I went from Zometa (3 doses, 6 and 8 weeks apart) to Aredia (2 doses,
6 weeks apart) to Fluotic on the advice my alternative consultant.
His input was specific to my situation -- that it would be the most
effective way for me to go.  No other specific reasons given.  On the
basis of our long association, I chose to follow his advice against
the advice of my oncologist.  We'll see...

Given your Dad's situation, I would definitely support his doing
Zometa to try to bring the bone mets under control.  But be aware
that long term use can make him susceptible to osteonecrosis of the
jaw (ONJ) if he later requires serious dental work.  Best to do any
anticipated dental work early on in his treatment if he can, and work
with a dentist who is aware of the risks if he can't.  For more info
see http://www.cancer.prostate-help.org/cabisph.htm

>I'm thinking my Dad wants to do chemo before he tries
>anything "unconventional" or "alternative" and I can
>respect that.

See my comment re immune system effects of chemo above.  It might be
worth waiting to see if ADT plus zometa plus "alternative" brings
things under control first, but I would be tempted to follow my
oncologist's advice on this one.

>Maybe he can try prostasol after chemo... what are
>your thoughts on that?

Worth a try, as it doesn't seem to work via stimulating the immune
system.  I don't know if anyone has tried it after chemo and had
success.  Any stories out there?

Another anti-cancer supplement that I just learned about and that
looks very impressive from the research is Avemar (Google it and
you'll find a lot of info).  It's very expensive, but looks like it
might work well with (or after) chemo and other advanced treatments.
I don't know of anyone who has used it for PCa, though.  Again, any
stories?

Best of luck,
Geoff

>Thanks,
>Jodi

Has anyone tried Avemar to fight their PCa?  If you Google it, you'll
find a lot of impressive info.

Geoff Golner