Heidi:

With a PSA of 10, you almost certainly don't need a bone scan.  The
Essian is good, but also take Vit. D, 1000iu, curcumin, pomegranate
juice, Flax seed (not oil!), I3C indol-3-carbinol, 300mcg melatonin
Lipitor, 10mg (yes, for PCa), Vitamin D (1000 mg), grape seed extract
  and most importantly, Quercetin Plus.  You probably won't need
hormone therapy.  Recheck PSA and then get back to us.  Get his weight
down and this will help also.  Good luck.

David

--- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, "uelibueb"
<martinala@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> Husband will be 79 next month. 6 years ago his PSA was 6.1. Urologist
> gave him some meds (he doesn't remember what it was), PSA went down to
> 4.5, urologist said no cancer as DRE showed no abnormality. 3.5 years
> later PSA is 10.8, DRE shows still smooth prostate. We decide against
> biopsy and start him on Budwig. PSA goes down two 6 after two months
> of adhering to the diet more than less. He gets relaxed, PSA goes to
> 9, then without special diet down to 6 again. 03/08 PSA is 14.3. We
> did an MRI 05/08 which shows a lesion  in the left superior aspect of
> the gland measuring 18mmx9mm, located in the peripheral zone, no
> identifiable extension of this lesion outside the capsule, and no
> significant large inguinal lymph nodes were noted. Prostate is
> moderatly enlarged (42cc).
>
> We start him on Essiac, then in June on Sutherlandia OPC for one
> month. DR pressures him into biopsy. They took 6 cores, one (left
> base) came back positive yesterday with a Gleason of 8, involvement is
> 10% with tumor length 1 mm. According to one study I read, this can
> still be considered a minute focus. My husband feels fine, has to get
> up to urinate max. 1x/night. He used to have a tingling sensation,
> sometimes painful, in his testicles. This has gone since taking Essiac
> and the oleander soup. He's healthy otherwise, no prescription meds.
> He's borderline diabetic and overweight, but does at least one hour of
> quite hard work in our grove (in the hot Florida sun). He's the father
> of 4 kids (9-18 yo, yes, I'm a bit younger than he is ;-) ),and we
> need him to stick around for quite some time...
>
> He does not want to do hormone therapy because of the risky side
> effects. We'll continue him on Sutherlandia OPC, Essiac, and will add
> Graviola tea and Cell Forte. He's also on Lysine to help
> prevent/contain possible mets, as well as Vit E., selenium, and a few
> other vitamins.
>
> Our questions are: Do you all think we can continue watchful waiting,
> since the tumor appears to be so small, and at his age, but with this
> high Gleason? And is a bone scan the only option of finding out
> whether the cancer has spread to other parts of his body? And how do
> they determine that the tumor is so small? What does the involvement
> figure of 10% mean?
>
> Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer us!
>
> Heidi
>

Watchful waiting may indeed be appropriate but you may also want to
consider Quercetin Plus (Prostasol). It works very well in controling
prostate cancer and can be purchased without a prescription. A better
answer to your question can be had by calling Dr Donsbach on Thursday
between the hours of 10 and noon Pacific time at 888.273.7469 the
doctor has an internet radio show during those hours but you do not
need an internet connection for the free call.

More information can be found at www.letstalkhealth.com or call 888-
950-2190 prior to the show.

Mike S

--- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, "uelibueb"
<martinala@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> Husband will be 79 next month. 6 years ago his PSA was 6.1.
Urologist
> gave him some meds (he doesn't remember what it was), PSA went down
to
> 4.5, urologist said no cancer as DRE showed no abnormality. 3.5
years
> later PSA is 10.8, DRE shows still smooth prostate. We decide
against
> biopsy and start him on Budwig. PSA goes down two 6 after two months
> of adhering to the diet more than less. He gets relaxed, PSA goes to
> 9, then without special diet down to 6 again. 03/08 PSA is 14.3. We
> did an MRI 05/08 which shows a lesion  in the left superior aspect
of
> the gland measuring 18mmx9mm, located in the peripheral zone, no
> identifiable extension of this lesion outside the capsule, and no
> significant large inguinal lymph nodes were noted. Prostate is
> moderatly enlarged (42cc).
>
> We start him on Essiac, then in June on Sutherlandia OPC for one
> month. DR pressures him into biopsy. They took 6 cores, one (left
> base) came back positive yesterday with a Gleason of 8, involvement
is
> 10% with tumor length 1 mm. According to one study I read, this can
> still be considered a minute focus. My husband feels fine, has to
get
> up to urinate max. 1x/night. He used to have a tingling sensation,
> sometimes painful, in his testicles. This has gone since taking
Essiac
> and the oleander soup. He's healthy otherwise, no prescription meds.
> He's borderline diabetic and overweight, but does at least one hour
of
> quite hard work in our grove (in the hot Florida sun). He's the
father
> of 4 kids (9-18 yo, yes, I'm a bit younger than he is ;-) ),and we
> need him to stick around for quite some time...
>
> He does not want to do hormone therapy because of the risky side
> effects. We'll continue him on Sutherlandia OPC, Essiac, and will
add
> Graviola tea and Cell Forte. He's also on Lysine to help
> prevent/contain possible mets, as well as Vit E., selenium, and a
few
> other vitamins.
>
> Our questions are: Do you all think we can continue watchful
waiting,
> since the tumor appears to be so small, and at his age, but with
this
> high Gleason? And is a bone scan the only option of finding out
> whether the cancer has spread to other parts of his body? And how do
> they determine that the tumor is so small? What does the involvement
> figure of 10% mean?
>
> Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer us!
>
> Heidi
>

Hi Heidi,

It looks like you and your husband are doing much more than what is
commonly understood by the words "watchful waiting." Moreover, at
least in my personal opinion, you are showing much wisdom in your
actions thus far. There is no point in turning to radical intervention
  such as hormone therapy at this point in time.

Keep on doing what you are doing and keep us posted of progress (or
regress) made in the months ahead.

I would suggest that you address the problem of being overweight. I am
now completing my third week in Joel Fuhrman's "Six-Week Plan" to lose
weight [and improve your lipid panel significantly in the process].
The plan really works. I have lost seven pounds already since starting
the program three weeks ago. My goal is to get down to 185 lbs by the
end of August. I weighed 242 lbs shortly after I was diagnosed with
prostate cancer in June 2006. I weighed in at 191 lbs this morning. My
goal is reach 170 lbs by the end of the year and eventually to get my
weight down to 155 and to keep it there.

I would also suggest that you get your husband's Vitamin D, 25-hydroxy
number, if you do not already have it. Take steps to get his vitamin D
level to 75+ and keep it there. It took me almost a year to raise mine
from 32 to 83 [reference range = 32-100]. Losing weight and
maintaining a high Vitamin D level are much more important than any
sort of hormone therapy for someone in the circumstances you describe,
including "estrogenic" forms of therapy used by many members of this
discussion group.

Duane Christensen

Dx 6/06 @ 68 | bPSA 13.9, bPSADT 2.14, Gl 3+3 | ADT (5 mns) + chemo (2
mns) aborted 11/16/06 | Protocel 19 mns (11/1/06-6/14/08); Laetrile
(fr 1/11/08), w/ Essiac Tea, IP-6 & Flax Hull Lignans (fr 6/14/08) +
Sutherlandia OPC (fr 7/25/08)





--- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, "uelibueb"
<martinala@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> Husband will be 79 next month. 6 years ago his PSA was 6.1. Urologist
> gave him some meds (he doesn't remember what it was), PSA went down to
> 4.5, urologist said no cancer as DRE showed no abnormality. 3.5 years
> later PSA is 10.8, DRE shows still smooth prostate. We decide against
> biopsy and start him on Budwig. PSA goes down two 6 after two months
> of adhering to the diet more than less. He gets relaxed, PSA goes to
> 9, then without special diet down to 6 again. 03/08 PSA is 14.3. We
> did an MRI 05/08 which shows a lesion  in the left superior aspect of
> the gland measuring 18mmx9mm, located in the peripheral zone, no
> identifiable extension of this lesion outside the capsule, and no
> significant large inguinal lymph nodes were noted. Prostate is
> moderatly enlarged (42cc).
>
> We start him on Essiac, then in June on Sutherlandia OPC for one
> month. DR pressures him into biopsy. They took 6 cores, one (left
> base) came back positive yesterday with a Gleason of 8, involvement is
> 10% with tumor length 1 mm. According to one study I read, this can
> still be considered a minute focus. My husband feels fine, has to get
> up to urinate max. 1x/night. He used to have a tingling sensation,
> sometimes painful, in his testicles. This has gone since taking Essiac
> and the oleander soup. He's healthy otherwise, no prescription meds.
> He's borderline diabetic and overweight, but does at least one hour of
> quite hard work in our grove (in the hot Florida sun). He's the father
> of 4 kids (9-18 yo, yes, I'm a bit younger than he is ;-) ),and we
> need him to stick around for quite some time...
>
> He does not want to do hormone therapy because of the risky side
> effects. We'll continue him on Sutherlandia OPC, Essiac, and will add
> Graviola tea and Cell Forte. He's also on Lysine to help
> prevent/contain possible mets, as well as Vit E., selenium, and a few
> other vitamins.
>
> Our questions are: Do you all think we can continue watchful waiting,
> since the tumor appears to be so small, and at his age, but with this
> high Gleason? And is a bone scan the only option of finding out
> whether the cancer has spread to other parts of his body? And how do
> they determine that the tumor is so small? What does the involvement
> figure of 10% mean?
>
> Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer us!
>
> Heidi
>

Hi all:

Husband will be 79 next month. 6 years ago his PSA was 6.1. Urologist
gave him some meds (he doesn't remember what it was), PSA went down to
4.5, urologist said no cancer as DRE showed no abnormality. 3.5 years
later PSA is 10.8, DRE shows still smooth prostate. We decide against
biopsy and start him on Budwig. PSA goes down two 6 after two months
of adhering to the diet more than less. He gets relaxed, PSA goes to
9, then without special diet down to 6 again. 03/08 PSA is 14.3. We
did an MRI 05/08 which shows a lesion  in the left superior aspect of
the gland measuring 18mmx9mm, located in the peripheral zone, no
identifiable extension of this lesion outside the capsule, and no
significant large inguinal lymph nodes were noted. Prostate is
moderatly enlarged (42cc).

We start him on Essiac, then in June on Sutherlandia OPC for one
month. DR pressures him into biopsy. They took 6 cores, one (left
base) came back positive yesterday with a Gleason of 8, involvement is
10% with tumor length 1 mm. According to one study I read, this can
still be considered a minute focus. My husband feels fine, has to get
up to urinate max. 1x/night. He used to have a tingling sensation,
sometimes painful, in his testicles. This has gone since taking Essiac
and the oleander soup. He's healthy otherwise, no prescription meds.
He's borderline diabetic and overweight, but does at least one hour of
quite hard work in our grove (in the hot Florida sun). He's the father
of 4 kids (9-18 yo, yes, I'm a bit younger than he is ;-) ),and we
need him to stick around for quite some time...

He does not want to do hormone therapy because of the risky side
effects. We'll continue him on Sutherlandia OPC, Essiac, and will add
Graviola tea and Cell Forte. He's also on Lysine to help
prevent/contain possible mets, as well as Vit E., selenium, and a few
other vitamins.

Our questions are: Do you all think we can continue watchful waiting,
since the tumor appears to be so small, and at his age, but with this
high Gleason? And is a bone scan the only option of finding out
whether the cancer has spread to other parts of his body? And how do
they determine that the tumor is so small? What does the involvement
figure of 10% mean?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer us!

Heidi

First off, thanks hugely, everyone who has responded. Yes, Patrick, I
meant lobes not nodes; had nodules and lymph on my mind. I've been
near-vegetarian, aside from fish, for nine years since dx in '98, am
56, 150 lbs, don't know about hormones right now. My diet is heavy
with tempeh, about thrice weekly, with curry, fish and pasta. I take
two tblspns of fermented soy powder daily (since February), and 8 oz
of tomato juice. I've listed this stuff before but anyway it's a
daily vitamin-mineral supplement, pau d'arco, maitake caps, DIM Plus
(2) and 1000mg fish oil bid; once a day COQ10 100mg, red clover,
garlic amd saw palmetto caps and selenium tab, 200mg, melatonin
200mcg before bed. My last PSA (May) was 4.8, down from 6.4
(October), was in previous years in the 2.9 to 4.0 range roughly. The
nodule vanished for a few years, after which I had major life
changes, was only minimally taking supplements and following diet,
returned aggressively last Fall-Winter. Now the nodule's back, not
huge but there, in the same place. Old biopsy showed on PCa in one
lobe, two or three samples, none in the other; now it's in both lobes.

I won't know more till I get the results in the mail in the next
couple of days. Also, I've become a huge green tea drinker, 2-4 cups
a day, in recent months. I have no PCa symptoms, am 56 years old and
feel fine aside from, obviously, what I'm going through. No drug
abuse or anything like that, I seldom drink, usually just in the cold
weather.

Shelly, didn't see or couldn't find monograph. Thanks for the support
and advice.

Jim, your words were helpful, too. I used to drink barley grass juice
(yuk!) years ago, on my first PCa self-rx, haven't used it in five or
more years. Shall give returning to it some thought.


Thanks To All (again),  John





--- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, Patrick OShea
<pjoshea13@...> wrote:
>
> John,
>  
> Could you add a little info?
>  
> You say "both nodes".  Do you actually mean nodes or, rather, lobes?
>  
> Gleason Score is 7.  Is this 3+4 or 4+3?  It does make a difference.
>  
> You have been using alternative approaches.  Could you list them
for us?  There might be some you have not considered.  How about your
diet?  What is your BMI (weight & height would give it)?  Blood
readings - hormones, CRP, etc?
>  
> Candida?  Today's Mercola's mailing has an interview with Italian
oncologist Dr. Tullio Simoncini, regarding his controversial theory. 
However, there is simply no body of evidence that associates candida
with PCa.  I can't believe that it plays a significant role. 
However, perhaps it does for a minority of men - I don't know.  Why
do you suspect candida in your case?  I don't know how sodium
bicarbonate would be delivered to the tumors.  But, more importantly,
does anyone know of guys who have been treated this way - let
alone "cured"?
>  
> Trying times for you.  Walk a lot.  It will dampen the stress &
allow you to step through this without making panic-driven
decisions.  I'm sure that you will get useful input from the group,
but they need full disclosure.
>  
> Best, -Patrick
>
> Dx04 @ 56 (DRE nodule 2002) |bPSA 3.3 (0.8 when nodule found)|
GS=4+3, RP - no LN, no SV, but PSA nadir-0.3. DT=3 months Salvage RT
2005. Again, nadir=0.3. No HB. +AM
>
> --- On Tue, 8/5/08, telegonus2 <telegonus2@...> wrote:

Hi all. I had a biopsy performed two weeks ago and just got the results
back: 8 out of 12 needle samples came back positive, PCa on both nodes,
one sample "suspicious". Just got off the phone with urologist, who
naturally urges rx soon, am making appointment for second opinion and
interpretation of results, am needless to say not happy, as I've been
using everything in my alternative armamentarium to fight this. It's
ten years out since initial dx. My Gleason has jumped from 6 to 7.
This doesn't look good, must consider conventional rx, most likely
radiation with Casodex, and still reeling from results though not, of
course, shocked. (Parenthetically, I've just heard about the candida-
cancer connection, am looking into ways to treat PCa this way, as I've
suspected a candida-fungal infection all along, though tests, some
years back, came up negative for this.) If anyone has any
suggestions I'd love to hear them. It seems that there's not a lot of
time left for ruminating and shopping for alternative cures, as I must
act sooner rather than later. If anyone has positive stories, having
been in a similar position and saw improvements through alternative rx,
has advice to give, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Regards,  John

Hi Patrick,

I am still studying the matter of 5-alpha-reductase in relation to
reducing DHT. You say:

<< I don't see a downside to increased beta-sitosterol doses.  I'm not
aware of a more potent natural 5alpha-reductase inhibitor. >>

I have located a relatively inexpensive source for beta-sitosterol,
which I have ordered (powder form in bulk). Meanwhile, I have
increased my present dosage of beta-sitosterol from my AmerMed Beta
Sitosterol Phylosterol Complex to 2 softgels 3x daily [taken with
similar dosage of DIM]. I also took a holiday of three days from using
Testosterone Verabase Gel-Cream (compounded at ScriptWorks Pharmacy in
Walnut Creek, CA) in hopes of bringing down both my T and DHT
immediately. I began using a reduced dosage this morning.

I ran across the following remarks by the late Dr. John R. Lee, on the
role of progesterone in the inhibition of 5-alpha-reductase. I wonder
if you (or the consultants you are using) know anything on this subject.

Dr Lee writes [HORMONE BALANCE FOR MEN (2003), pp. 12-13]:

"Progesterone helps by restoring normal inhibition of
5-alpha-reductase, thus preventing testosterone from changing into
dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which stimulates proliferation of prostate
cells. Progesterone not only stimulates the action of the
cancer-preventive gene p53, but also maintains testosterone, which is
a direct antagonist of estradiol."

Duane Christensen

Dx 6/06 @ 68 | bPSA 13.9, bPSADT 2.14, Gl 3+3 | ADT (5 mns) + chemo (2
mns) aborted 11/16/06 | Protocel 19 mns (11/1/06-6/14/08); Laetrile
(fr 1/11/08), w/ Essiac Tea, IP-6 & Flax Hull Lignans (fr 6/14/08) +
Sutherlandia OPC (fr 7/25/08)

I have about 10 pottles of Q+ surplus to my requirements. this is the
good stuff purchased last year after the poor quality debarcle, I have
been using 1 every 4 days to keep my 3+4 T2c down to 0.5.
expiry date next year. any-one interested in taking some let me know,
US$50 each + postage

Hi Patrick,

Thank you VERY MUCH for this useful discussion of a number of issues
in an area where I have much yet to learn. My situation is different
from yours in that I am coming off ADT (androgen deprivation therapy)
in which I experienced medical castration. You did not.

DHT was a matter of great concern to my compounding specialist, Tecia
Ryan, from the outset. It was also a concern of the late Dr. John R.
Lee, in his protocol -- and of Dr. Sighi Drassinower (and others out
there) as well.

You are indeed fortunate, if you can maintain your T at 1000+ without
worrying about elevating your DHT beyond the reference range. So far,
that has not been an option for me. I find the matter of balancing
hormone levels to be a complex balancing act -- one that must be
monitored carefully, especially when supplementing with bio-identical
hormones (especially testosterone gel/cream and progesterone cream).

I find it curious when you say:

<< I feel uncomfortable talking about high T when the Q+/ProstaSol
users mostly have low T.  The value of this discussion can only be for
men who are on Q+/ProstaSol vacations, & may wish to boost T.  We
should bear that in mind. >>

The posted description of this group says: "This group includes
discussions of PC-SPES, PROSTASOL, PC-PLUS, PC-CALM and any other
natural products which contribute to prostate health." I do not
interpret this statement to mean that the sole concern of the group is
that of "estrogenic therapy" using the products listed by name. The
statement goes on to say "any other natural products." There are many
such products, which merit discussion.

In my own approach to PCa, as well as that of Drassinower and others,
achieving proper balance in hormone levels is top priority in the
fight with PCa. For those who choose to go on PC-SPES (and sister
products) it is impossible to achieve balance in hormone levels, much
the same as it is impossible to do so for anyone subjecting their body
to ADT. On the other hand, I think that it is possible to achieve
hormone balance while using many truly natural products out there, in
the fight with PCa.

Sincerely,

Duane Christensen

Dx 6/06 @ 68 | bPSA 13.9, bPSADT 2.14, Gl 3+3 | ADT (5 mns) + chemo (2
mns) aborted 11/16/06 | Protocel 19 mns (11/1/06-6/14/08); Laetrile
(fr 1/11/08), w/ Essiac Tea, IP-6 & Flax Hull Lignans (fr 6/14/08) +
Sutherlandia OPC (fr 7/25/08)

Jul 1, 2008
By: Vonne Sieve
Urology Times

Vail, CO—Recent clinical data have identified an additional component
of aggressive prostate cancer that may need multi-modality treatments
to combat it.
"Men initially diagnosed with Gleason score 7 disease who also had a
small area of tertiary grade 5 prostate cancer that was seen on
biopsy were found to have a more aggressive form of cancer," said
Anthony D'Amico, MD, PhD, professor of radiation oncology at Harvard
Medical School and chair of the division of genitourinary radiation
oncology at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston. "This additional
component of disease greatly impacts prognosis."

Dr. D'Amico, who last year led a research team that published data on
the significance of Gleason score 7 and tertiary grade 5 cancer (JAMA
2007; 298:1533-8), offered perspective on the study at the
International Prostate Cancer Update here.

In 2005, the In-ternational Society of Urologic Pathology Consensus
Conference suggested that men diagnosed on biopsy with tertiary grade
5 cancer and Gleason 3+4 be classified as Gleason 8, and men with
tertiary grade 5 cancer and Gleason 4+3 be classified as Gleason 9.

Last year's study by Dr. D'Amico, Abhijit Patel, MD, PhD, and
colleagues added relevant clinical evidence to support that
recommendation.

Dr. D'Amico's team compared time to PSA failure or recurrence in men
with tertiary grade 5 cancer to those without this additional
component of disease. Their study comprised 2,370 men with localized
or locally advanced prostate cancer who received treatment with
radical prostatectomy, radiation therapy alone, or radiation therapy
plus 6 months of androgen suppression therapy. Gleason scores were
categorized as follows: men with Gleason <6, Gleason 7 without
tertiary grade 5, Gleason 7 with tertiary grade 5, and Gleason 8 to
10.

At 4-year follow-up, the results showed that men with Gleason 7
prostate cancer and tertiary grade 5 disease relapsed, on average, in
5 years compared to 6.7 years in men without tertiary grade 5
disease. Furthermore, time to disease recurrence in men with Gleason
score 7 and tertiary grade 5 disease was found to be comparable to
that seen in men diagnosed with Gleason score 8 to 10 disease.

"The implications of this study for practicing urologists are that
men with Gleason 7 and tertiary grade 5 should be counseled regarding
treatment in the same way they would be counseled for men with
Gleason grade 8, 9, or 10 prostate cancer," Dr. D'Amico advised. "A
Gleason score of 8 to 10 is considered high-risk disease, and almost
always requires more than surgery or radiation alone to fight it."

Another important point involves the role of the pathologist: Men
with tertiary grade 5 prostate cancer should be reported if seen.

"Although most academic pathologists are aware that they should
report tertiary grade 5 if present, I'm not sure all community
pathologists are aware of this issue," said M. Scott Lucia, MD,
director of the prostate diagnostic laboratory and associate
professor of pathology at the University of Colorado Health Sciences
Center, Denver.

"Greater awareness and uniformity in reporting of this additional
component of disease allows physicians to more accurately predict
time to disease recurrence and develop a more aggressive course of
treatment," added Dr. D'Amico. "The next step in the research process
would be to have a large sample size of men with Gleason 7 tertiary
grade 5 disease to assess the results within each treatment
modality."
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Henry     Date of Birth 01/03/1934   Dx date 05/28/02,age68:1st
measured PSA 2.10, 06/28/96:PSA at DX 13.2 , gleason 7, psa doubling
time at Dx 17.8 mo: Treatment Intensity Modulated Radiation: Left
seminal vesicle Involvement  :Positive androgen management: last
measured PSA 5.4, 06/17/08, last psa doubling time 109.6 month, T>1500

Hi Patrick,

Thank you for this advice. I have been taking Beta Sitosterol
Phytosterol Complex by AmerMed Softgels 1000mg -- 2 softgels daily. I
do not know if this is the right product. I welcome more specific
suggestions on your part. What specific product are you using and why?

I did not take Beta Sitosterol during the four months I was living in
Jerusalem, and I have not gotten back into the routine of taking it as
regularly as I should. This may explain why my E2 remained in check,
but my DHT did not these past 6-7 weeks, as my T spiked to 1550.

I have been taking a HEAVY dosage of DIM for some time now, including
my time in Jerusalem -- 200mg capsules purchased thru Roger Mason's
website: 2 capsules 3x daily [total = 1200mg]. It seems to be working
so far as controlling my E2 with rising T.

I wonder if the same strategy with Beta Sitosterol might work as well,
namely taking a heavier dosage than what you suggest. I don't think
there is much danger, if any at all, in overdosing Beta Sitosterol.
What do you think?

I have two months now to figure out exactly what natural products to
try as a 5alpha reductase inhibitor. Are there other options beyond
the use of Beta Sitosterol?

In his discussion of "DHT and Alpha Reductase Enzyme," Sighi
Drassinower [in his book, THE KEY TO HEALTHY PROSTATE AND ANDROPAUSE
(2005]) presents what he calls "eleven steps, rungs that lead up this
ladder called hormonal balance" (p. 43). These "Eleven Tools" are
presented in detail in chapter 4 of his book (pp. 47-57), but they  do
not focus on the alpha reductase enzyme per se.

Here's his "Eleven Tools":

1)  Chrysyn -- to suppress E2 & boost T
2)  Nettle-root -- binds to SHGB & raises free testosterone
3)  DIM -- raises "good" estrogen / lowers "bad" estrogen (E2)
4)  Androstenedione -- raises T
5)  Progesterone -- inhibits harmful effects of estrogen
6)  DHEA -- raises T
7)  Pregnenolone {it is not clear why he includes this one}
8)  Eurycoma Longifolia Jack -- improves T production
9)  Tribulus Terrestris -- increases T by increasing LH
10) Maca, Lepidium Meyenii G -- increases T
11) Muira Puama -- increases libido

Duane Christensen

Dx 6/06 @ 68 | bPSA 13.9, bPSADT 2.14, Gl 3+3 | ADT (5 mns) + chemo (2
mns) aborted 11/16/06 | Protocel 19 mns (11/1/06-6/14/08); Laetrile
(fr 1/11/08), w/ Essiac Tea, IP-6 & Flax Hull Lignans (fr 6/14/08) +
Sutherlandia OPC (fr 7/25/08)




--- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, Patrick OShea
<pjoshea13@...> wrote:
>
> Duane,
>
> Noting your DHT concern, I wondered whether you have tried a natural
5alpha reductase inhibitor?  I'd consider 300 mg beta sitosterol,
twice daily..
>
> -Patrick
>
> Dx04 @ 56 (DRE nodule 2002) |bPSA 3.3 (0.8 when nodule found)|
GS=4+3, RP - no LN, no SV, but PSA nadir-0.3. DT=3 months Salvage RT
2005. Again, nadir=0.3. No HB. +AM
>

Note: I sent the letter below to members of my family as an update on
where things stand at the present time.

Duane Christensen

Dx 6/06 @ 68 | bPSA 13.9, bPSADT 2.14, Gl 3+3 | ADT (5 mns) + chemo (2
mns) aborted 11/16/06 | Protocel 19 mns (11/1/06-6/14/08); Laetrile
(fr 1/11/08), w/ Essiac Tea, IP-6 & Flax Hull Lignans (fr 6/14/08) +
Sutherlandia OPC (fr 7/25/08)


The final lab test report of my current round of blood tests at Alta
Bates Cancer Center (Berkeley, CA) arrived yesterday, so it is time to
share an update on my progress (or regress) in my struggle with
prostate cancer. As you no doubt already know, prostate cancer is a
relatively slow growing form of cancer that is related to the sex
hormones in the human body.

It is not yet clear if prostate cancer can actually be reversed, as is
the case with heart disease. Unfortunately, I have both ailments. I am
making significant progress so far as my struggle with heart disease
is concerned, but the picture is still not clear when it comes to
prostate cancer (PCa).

Here are the more important numbers from my blood tests:

Date || PSA || PSADT || Testostrne || DHT || E2
Ref. ||<4.0|| > 2.14 || 500-1100 || 30-85 || 3-70

03/29/06 || 13.9 || 2.14 || 0000
06/29/06 3-month injection of Zoladex
07/25/06 || 05.9 || 0.00 || 0032
08/11/06 || 02.0 || 0.00 || 0025
09/07/06 3-month injection of Lupron
10/03/06 || 00.9 || 0.00 || <20
11/16/06 aborted ADT (and chemo)
05/22/07 || 01.8 || 0.00 || 0102 || 033 || 31
06/01/07 started testosterone replacement
06/29/07 || 04.8 || 0.00 || 0189 || -----
08/14/07 || 07.2 || 0.00 || 0281 || 045 || 21
10/23/07 || 16.8 || 2.75 || 0354 || ----- || 22
11/27/07 || 18.2 || 2.62 || 0703 || 107 || 45
01/02/08 || 19.4 || 2.55 || 0417 || 054 || 13
01/24/08 || 25.0 || 2.15 || 0709 || 102 || 24
02/12/08 started taking Avodart to control DHT
03/11/08 || 20.9 || 2.50 || ----- (unable to test serum T & DHT)
04/30/08 stopped taking Avodart
06/10/08 || 23.0 || 2.45 || 0353 || 061 || 25
07/22/08 || 31.3 || 2.07 || 1550 || 238 || 25
07/31/08 went back on Avodart to control DHT

09/23/08 || 23.0 || 2.59 || 0600 || 060 || 20  [Target Goal]

I overdid it in recent weeks in my attempt to get my testosterone
level back in the range of 500-1100. By pushing my testosterone level
up to 1550, I also pushed my DHT (dihydrotestosterone) up as well to a
dangerously high level of 238. This forced me to go back on Avodart
for the next two months, as I try to find other means to get my DHT
under control along with my E2 (estradiol). Achieving and maintaining
proper hormone balance is no easy task.

My goal is to get my testosterone level as high as possible, while
keeping both my estradiol (E2) and DHT as low as possible WITHOUT THE
USE OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS. My next blood draw at Alta Bates Cancer
Center is scheduled for September 23. At that time, I hope to reach
the "Target Goals" given above, with my testosterone level down to 600
[ref. range: 500-1500], my DHT at 60 [ref. range: 30-85], and my E2 at
20 [ref. range: 3-70]. At the same time, I hope to see my PSA drop to
23.0 (or perhaps lower). The PSA number will have relatively little
meaning, because the drug Avodart lowers PSA as well as DHT.

My plan is to stop taking Avodart at that point in time, so long as I
am able to keep both my DHT and E2 in check, as I gradually raise my
testosterone level as high as possible. This will take several months.

Meanwhile, my more immediate goal is to continue my program of weight
loss. When I started chemotherapy on 9/7/2006 I weighed 242 lbs. I
weighed in this morning at 192, for a loss of 50 lbs so far (in 23
months), with another 30 lbs to go. I am convinced that no real
progress can be made in terms of reversing prostate cancer (and heart
disease) until I get my body closer to my ideal weight (about 160
lbs). This will take some time yet.

I do not believe that ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) "cures"
prostate cancer. That is why I chose to go a different direction on
November 16, 2006, in my own treatment program. I am now in my third
year since I was diagnosed with prostate cancer by needle biopsy on
June 26, 2006.

The rate of growth of cancer in my body appears to be essentially the
same today as it was when I started this journey with prostate cancer
[PSADT is the doubling time of my PSA number]. Hopefully, in the
months ahead, we will begin to see that rate of growth slow down
substantially and eventually even to reverse itself. At least, I hope
and pray that this will be the case. I will keep you posted on my
progress or regress in this journey with prostate cancer.

Duane Christensen

Dear Ken,

Laperscopic removal of the prostate allows ashorter healing time and is less invasive than normal RP.

If it is removed piecemeal I would be concerned. I understand the outer skin is pretty tough and if it could be removed intact I d feel better. Unfortunately it appears this will not happen. I have given some thought to Da Vinci which is  akind of computer aided surgical approach. It leaves open the same questions as with all surgeries the skill of the surgeon and your anatomy configuration.

This approach does not allow inspection of positive of positive margins as retropubic surgery allows.

The notion of spread is complex either way.

If there is a concern about needle biopsies and spread what is entire removal suggest?

You may incur worse urinary symptoms than you presently have.

This is no cure all procedure. It entails many risks.

Review your decision cautiously and prudently.

Best of Luck,

Dominick

-----Original Message-----
From: "kengib ."
Sent: Jul 31, 2008 10:31 PM
To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group]* Positive Results - reply to Marie

Bob,

 

Thanks for the reply...  Sorry it took me so long to reply... I've been travelling.

 

My psa had been ~2 for 15 years... then spring of 2007 jumped to 4...  my physician was concerned so she sent me to the urologist.  We had another and it was 4.5.   As I was 74 at the time the urologist was not concerned saying 4.5 for a psa ay my age was probably normal.  I insisted on a biopsy; urologist suggested waiting 6 months and taking another psa which we did in March of 2008 when it psa has rose to 8.5..  We had the biopsy and the results showed no cancer in the left half but each of six cores in the right side showed positive results. The Gleason came back 4+4=8.  Had one more psa in May and it was 9.6.  Had bone scan and CT scan and each showed no evidence of cancer outside the prostate.

 

I'm now being scheduled for laproscopic removal of the prostate which I expect within the next three weeks.

 

For the past ten months I've been waking up three times a night with the feeling of needing an urgent release of urine.  That confuses me because in the daytime I may have but two needs to urinate yet between 11pm and 6am I awaken three times with the urgent feeling to evacuate.  The urologist believes the prostrate is restricting/pressuring the bladder/urethea and without the prostate there will be less sense of urgency and a more comfortable sleep.

 

Here's a question still of concern.  What is the danger the laproscopic removal of the prostate piece by piece will disturb and possibly scatter cancer cells during the removal such that cancer cells might "infect" or be stimulated to travel elsewhere?  In other words how clean is the removal?  Can it scatter the cancer which at the moment is contained in the right side of the donut [prostate]?

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: ra

To: natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:00 PM

Subject: Re: [NTPC Yahoo Group]* Positive Results - reply to Marie

Ken:  When they discovered cancer in your prostate as a result of a biopsy how many cores were taken?  What is the grade and Gleason Score?  It's common for labs to make mistakes in their grading and Gleason scores so it's worthwhile to have those slides double checked.  Why did you have the biopsy .... a high PSA?   It's true, older men often have some PCa in their prostates and die of other things without knowing about it.  Men in their 70's and 80's are likely to have that.  If it's a diploid tumor it is slow growing.  There are two other types of tumors that are more aggressive. A ploidy analysis can determine which kind you have.   Urologist will urge surgery and radiologists radiation.  Too many of us panic at the diagnosis and rush into aggressive treatments when we'd be better off to wait and watch. The surgery and radiation can cause add'l problems.   First understand exactly what your rating and Gleason score is and I'd have that double checked..  If your PSA is <10 it's likely still in the prostate.  How is your health otherwise?  If you are younger and in good health your treatment decision may differ from an older man with other health problems as well.   Good luck.  Bob  --- On Thu, 6/5/08, kengib . <jkg4902@hotmail.com> wrote:

________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

Hi Larry,

No, I have not yet spoken with Jerry Sloane. Thank you for this
information. I will check into it.

I also plan to contact Tom Lahey of Lutimax Nutraceuticals about his
EGCG and chrysin formulations. There surely must be natural substances
that one can use to control DHT rather than Avodart and/or Proscar
(Finasteride).

My initial search for further information led me to a book by Sighi
Drassinower, M.D., THE KEY TO HEALTHY PROSTATE (2005), which looks
rather good. Is anyone in the group familiar with the book? I scanned
his chapter on "The Immortal Man, Hormones, and Andropause" and I am
impressed. His chapter on "Prostate Cancer and Nutrition" also looks
good. Used copies of this one are available on Amazon.com for about 40
cents + shipping ($4).

Duane Christensen

Dx 6/06 @ 68 | bPSA 13.9, bPSADT 2.14, Gl 3+3 | ADT (5 mns) + chemo (2
mns) aborted 11/16/06 | Protocel 19 mns (11/1/06-6/14/08); Laetrile
(fr 1/11/08), w/ Essiac Tea, IP-6 & Flax Hull Lignans (fr 6/14/08) +
Sutherlandia OPC (fr 7/25/08)



--- In natural_prostate_treatments@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Johnson"
<lkjohnso@...> wrote:
>
> Duane,
>
> Have you spoken with Jerry Sloane? He has studied this subject and
seems to
> have a handle on how much to take. He has helped me a lot.
>
> http://www.alternative-health-group.org/
>
>
>
> Larry J
>
>