Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
nathaniel_branden · Dr. Nathaniel Branden
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Message search is now enhanced, find messages faster. Take it for a spin.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Re: Response to NB's Essay   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #5712 of 21115 |
Re: [nathaniel_branden] Re: Response to NB's Essay

Steve,
I more thing I wanted to say. You write:
"If someone holds the POSITION of libertarianism, but
is a nihilist, and a subjectivist, they are still a
(small 'l') libertarian. Just as Joseph Stalin and Ayn
Rand were both atheists; and Nietzsche and Rand were
both egoists."
Most emphatically NO. To claim that one can be a
subjectivist and at the same time a libertarian (which
I will take to mean an advocate of individual
rights/non-coercive state) is to claim a
contradiction. In stating this, you are cliaming that
a subjectivist can at the same time be an advocate of
objective reality. Notice one of Rand's critiques of
Nietzche (actually it might have been NB's essay) is
that his egoism is not really egoism in the true sense
of the word, but rather an altered form of altruism.
One cannot just make a grab-bag of positions and
then say they accept all of the positions equally; and
thus can be considered an advocate of all the stated
positions. One must observe the philosophical
hierarchy. To the extent there are contradictions in
the specific positions, the most fundamental
philosophic principles/positions win. Contradictions
do not exist in reality--which includes the
philosophic content of one's mind. From the quote
above, your subjectivist is still a subjectivist, the
libertarian position will represent a contradiction to
his subjectivism.
Thanks,
Michael

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com



Fri Mar 28, 2003 10:15 pm

moeller_log
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #5712 of 21115 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

From: <n6666b@...> ... and ... on ... I just did, in my response to Peter Smitt, but perhaps with all these postings, it got lost, so here is my response,...
Monica Pignotti
mpignotti2001
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
3:57 pm

Monica, That many people are confused about Objectivism and about libertarianism hardly needs to be argued. That is why, in my own books, I define precisely ...
n6666b@...
nat6branden
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
4:19 pm

... confusion ... One could cut ... Dr. Branden, I don't believe Schwartz was attacking libertarianism with small l, just like he wouldn't attack liberalism....
Free Capitalist
hash113
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
4:55 pm

... To the best of my knowledge, TOC is friendly with small-l libertarian think tanks like Cato, but has never been anything like "buddies" with the LP. Where...
Diana M Hsieh
dmbrickell
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
5:12 pm

Frankly I always thought Cato was, if not exclusively an LP think tank, at least not condemning of the Party. Same with IHS (Institute of Humane Studies). They...
Free Capitalist
hash113
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
5:27 pm

... Cato abhors the LP. I know; I interned there for 6 months while in college. Ed Crane, in fact, founded Cato because he was completely fed up with the LP....
Diana M Hsieh
dmbrickell
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
5:39 pm

I appreciate and agree with the points made by Dr. B. and Diana. I was once intrigued by the fact that Ayn Rand had told writer Joan Kennedy Taylor that her...
Chris Matthew Sciabarra
sciabarra
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
5:59 pm

... drawing ... well ... a ... You said that this was circa 1963-64, before the LP had been established. In her essay of a much later date (the 70s), "What Can...
mpignotti2001
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
7:48 pm

Great Topic. I am going to have to take the side of Rand on this one for many reasons. NB writes: "I've needed to say, "I'm not a Democrat nor a Republican,...
Michael Moeller
moeller_log
Offline Send Email
Mar 27, 2003
7:44 am

The main problem I have with Mr. Moellor's comments, is that he fails to properly distinguish, the difference between a political PARTY, and a philosophical...
barger9999
Offline Send Email
Mar 27, 2003
7:52 pm

Libertarian Party is an organization, and at its face value should be embracing the libertarian values, which I classify it as the economic/political branch of...
Jak
jkarako
Offline Send Email
Mar 27, 2003
9:35 pm

Hi Steve, Thanks for your feedback, although I think you have a significant misunderstanding of the crux of my argument. First of all, I did not state anywhere...
Michael Moeller
moeller_log
Offline Send Email
Mar 28, 2003
7:21 am

Dear Michael; You'd be surprised at how much we're in agreement on! The areas of disagreement are important to focus on, here, though. Let me explain. You...
barger9999
Offline Send Email
Mar 28, 2003
7:58 pm

Hi Steve, I will try to be more clear in my formulation. Again as I stated numerous times in my previous emails, I accept libertarianism when taken in the ...
Michael Moeller
moeller_log
Offline Send Email
Mar 28, 2003
9:33 pm

Steve, I more thing I wanted to say. You write: "If someone holds the POSITION of libertarianism, but is a nihilist, and a subjectivist, they are still a ...
Michael Moeller
moeller_log
Offline Send Email
Mar 28, 2003
10:15 pm

Diana, thanks for information. Why is it that none of the classical liberal/libertarian think tanks officially disassociate themselves with LP? Or maybe I...
Free Capitalist
hash113
Offline Send Email
Mar 27, 2003
5:23 am

Hash, though I can't (and wouldn't dare presume) to speak for the classical liberal think tanks, I would suspect that they don't "disassociate themselves" from...
William Bacon
guyintherear
Offline Send Email
Mar 27, 2003
11:33 am

... What's the mistake here, and what's wrong with a "foggy conglomeration"? All the groups you mention do more good than harm, and share a fundamental respect...
Mike Lee
michaellee98034
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
6:36 pm

... In fact, Peter Schwartz was indeed attacking LibertarianISM, not just the L.P. His essay was titled "LibertarianISM: The Perversion of Liberty". He makes...
barger9999
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
5:53 pm

Nathaniel, I appreciate your response. Because the origin of the term is unclear, I'm still not comfortable calling myself a "libertarian", even with a small...
Monica Pignotti
mpignotti2001
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
5:38 pm

... Hi Monica, Shouldn't the common understanding of the term today matter more than its origin? (Most people, after all, have no idea of its origin. And...
Diana M Hsieh
dmbrickell
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
5:49 pm

... My experience differs greatly, especially when discussing the subject with people who have more than minimal knowledge of politics. When people say that...
Mike Lee
michaellee98034
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
6:36 pm

I confess I took for granted that everyone on this list knew that "Libertarianism" and "libertarianism" are two totally different animals. NB [Non-text...
n6666b@...
nat6branden
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
8:54 pm

Well said, Chris. nb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]...
n6666b@...
nat6branden
Offline Send Email
Mar 26, 2003
9:03 pm

"Chris"?...
martingoodfellow8
martingoodfe...
Offline Send Email
Mar 27, 2003
12:39 am

Michael Moeller <moeller_log@...> wrote: [I've snipped many very excellent points he very eloquently made, to get to this one very important conclusion...
Monica Pignotti
mpignotti2001
Offline Send Email
Mar 27, 2003
5:02 pm

It might help people understand the difference between oppsing the Libertarian PARTY, vs. opposing (small 'l') libertarianISM, to think of it this way: I can...
barger9999
Offline Send Email
Mar 27, 2003
7:25 pm

... Since the question was asked, I'd like to affirm this postion, as well. I've been a Libertarian since 1977, and believe it's worth defending. I even ran ...
SnowDog
cchaynie
Offline Send Email
Mar 27, 2003
9:47 pm
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help