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Re: Response to NB's Essay   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #5602 of 21115 |
Re: Response to NB's Essay

--- In nathaniel_branden@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Matthew Sciabarra"
<chris.sciabarra@n...> wrote:
> I appreciate and agree with the points made by Dr. B. and Diana. I
> was once intrigued by the fact that Ayn Rand had told writer Joan
> Kennedy Taylor that her politics was "libertarian." And, at one
> time, Rand had little or no problem describing it as such or
drawing
> parallels with it---whatever her discomfort with the word (as so
well
> expressed in Nathaniel's essay). Just yesterday, in fact, I heard
a
> very interesting interview with Rand.
>
> In contrast to conservatism, which she rejected as "futile and
> disastrous," Rand states in that interview: "People like the
> libertarians, [Ludwig] von Mises or [Henry] Hazlitt [both of whom
> Rand knew and highly recommended to her readers], do not advocate a
> mixed economy. The so-called libertarians are much better in that
> respect."

You said that this was circa 1963-64, before the LP had been
established. In her essay of a much later date (the 70s), "What Can
One Do", in the Ayn Rand Letter, she clearly advised people not to
join the Libertarians. If you would like to see the exact quote, I
can get that for you.

> Note: She wasn't condemning the group as a whole---the way Peter
> Schwartz did---as a bunch of whim-worshipping tribalists.

She did condemn them harshly in her essay, "What Can One Do", written
in the 1970s, after the formation of the LP. In 1963-4, she was
speaking in a much different context. After she saw the results
of "Libertarianism" in action, she obviously changed her views. This
is understandable, given her very inductive thought process. From an
academic point of view, I would also tend to want to take written
material over what was spoken in an interview, when there is a
conflict, especially since that written material was of a later
date. Now you might want to argue that she meant the "party" in that
issue, but she didn't specify this, so I would have no reason to
assume that.

Chris, I'll ask you the same question I asked NB. Do you know what
the actual origin and definition of the term, "libertarian" is and
who originally coined it? It would certainly give us a much sounder
basis for the usage of the term if we knew this.

Monica Pignotti





Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:48 pm

mpignotti2001
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From: <n6666b@...> ... and ... on ... I just did, in my response to Peter Smitt, but perhaps with all these postings, it got lost, so here is my response,...
Monica Pignotti
mpignotti2001
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Mar 26, 2003
3:57 pm

Monica, That many people are confused about Objectivism and about libertarianism hardly needs to be argued. That is why, in my own books, I define precisely ...
n6666b@...
nat6branden
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Mar 26, 2003
4:19 pm

... confusion ... One could cut ... Dr. Branden, I don't believe Schwartz was attacking libertarianism with small l, just like he wouldn't attack liberalism....
Free Capitalist
hash113
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Mar 26, 2003
4:55 pm

... To the best of my knowledge, TOC is friendly with small-l libertarian think tanks like Cato, but has never been anything like "buddies" with the LP. Where...
Diana M Hsieh
dmbrickell
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Mar 26, 2003
5:12 pm

Frankly I always thought Cato was, if not exclusively an LP think tank, at least not condemning of the Party. Same with IHS (Institute of Humane Studies). They...
Free Capitalist
hash113
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Mar 26, 2003
5:27 pm

... Cato abhors the LP. I know; I interned there for 6 months while in college. Ed Crane, in fact, founded Cato because he was completely fed up with the LP....
Diana M Hsieh
dmbrickell
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Mar 26, 2003
5:39 pm

I appreciate and agree with the points made by Dr. B. and Diana. I was once intrigued by the fact that Ayn Rand had told writer Joan Kennedy Taylor that her...
Chris Matthew Sciabarra
sciabarra
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Mar 26, 2003
5:59 pm

... drawing ... well ... a ... You said that this was circa 1963-64, before the LP had been established. In her essay of a much later date (the 70s), "What Can...
mpignotti2001
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Mar 26, 2003
7:48 pm

Great Topic. I am going to have to take the side of Rand on this one for many reasons. NB writes: "I've needed to say, "I'm not a Democrat nor a Republican,...
Michael Moeller
moeller_log
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Mar 27, 2003
7:44 am

The main problem I have with Mr. Moellor's comments, is that he fails to properly distinguish, the difference between a political PARTY, and a philosophical...
barger9999
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Mar 27, 2003
7:52 pm

Libertarian Party is an organization, and at its face value should be embracing the libertarian values, which I classify it as the economic/political branch of...
Jak
jkarako
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Mar 27, 2003
9:35 pm

Hi Steve, Thanks for your feedback, although I think you have a significant misunderstanding of the crux of my argument. First of all, I did not state anywhere...
Michael Moeller
moeller_log
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Mar 28, 2003
7:21 am

Dear Michael; You'd be surprised at how much we're in agreement on! The areas of disagreement are important to focus on, here, though. Let me explain. You...
barger9999
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Mar 28, 2003
7:58 pm

Hi Steve, I will try to be more clear in my formulation. Again as I stated numerous times in my previous emails, I accept libertarianism when taken in the ...
Michael Moeller
moeller_log
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Mar 28, 2003
9:33 pm

Steve, I more thing I wanted to say. You write: "If someone holds the POSITION of libertarianism, but is a nihilist, and a subjectivist, they are still a ...
Michael Moeller
moeller_log
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Mar 28, 2003
10:15 pm

Diana, thanks for information. Why is it that none of the classical liberal/libertarian think tanks officially disassociate themselves with LP? Or maybe I...
Free Capitalist
hash113
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Mar 27, 2003
5:23 am

Hash, though I can't (and wouldn't dare presume) to speak for the classical liberal think tanks, I would suspect that they don't "disassociate themselves" from...
William Bacon
guyintherear
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Mar 27, 2003
11:33 am

... What's the mistake here, and what's wrong with a "foggy conglomeration"? All the groups you mention do more good than harm, and share a fundamental respect...
Mike Lee
michaellee98034
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Mar 26, 2003
6:36 pm

... In fact, Peter Schwartz was indeed attacking LibertarianISM, not just the L.P. His essay was titled "LibertarianISM: The Perversion of Liberty". He makes...
barger9999
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Mar 26, 2003
5:53 pm

Nathaniel, I appreciate your response. Because the origin of the term is unclear, I'm still not comfortable calling myself a "libertarian", even with a small...
Monica Pignotti
mpignotti2001
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Mar 26, 2003
5:38 pm

... Hi Monica, Shouldn't the common understanding of the term today matter more than its origin? (Most people, after all, have no idea of its origin. And...
Diana M Hsieh
dmbrickell
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Mar 26, 2003
5:49 pm

... My experience differs greatly, especially when discussing the subject with people who have more than minimal knowledge of politics. When people say that...
Mike Lee
michaellee98034
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Mar 26, 2003
6:36 pm

I confess I took for granted that everyone on this list knew that "Libertarianism" and "libertarianism" are two totally different animals. NB [Non-text...
n6666b@...
nat6branden
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Mar 26, 2003
8:54 pm

Well said, Chris. nb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]...
n6666b@...
nat6branden
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Mar 26, 2003
9:03 pm

"Chris"?...
martingoodfellow8
martingoodfe...
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Mar 27, 2003
12:39 am

Michael Moeller <moeller_log@...> wrote: [I've snipped many very excellent points he very eloquently made, to get to this one very important conclusion...
Monica Pignotti
mpignotti2001
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Mar 27, 2003
5:02 pm

It might help people understand the difference between oppsing the Libertarian PARTY, vs. opposing (small 'l') libertarianISM, to think of it this way: I can...
barger9999
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Mar 27, 2003
7:25 pm

... Since the question was asked, I'd like to affirm this postion, as well. I've been a Libertarian since 1977, and believe it's worth defending. I even ran ...
SnowDog
cchaynie
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Mar 27, 2003
9:47 pm
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