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The email and attachment below were forwarded on to me by a senior US colleague
today. It concerns an invitation to join a petition and to collectively "lobby"
the DSM-V Task Force and Work Group to have Dissociative Identity Disorder
removed from DSM-V. It is claimed that "due to the assumption that trauma is a
primary etiological factor, the DID diagnosis has resulted in wrongful
accusations of sexual abuse on the basis of recovered memories, not only in
North America but throughout the developed world". Signatories to the petition
include Paul McHugh, Harrison Pope, Harold Merskey, August Piper, Elizabeth
Loftus, Richard McNally and Pamela Freyd. One of course would hope that such
matters are decided on objective analysis of all of the data rather than by the
"lobbying" efforts of small but noisy groups who bypass the conventions of
science.
On the subject of DSM-V, I have included a commentary on the process authored by
Robert Spitzer who chaired the Task Force which created DSM-III. He went on to
chair the Work Group for DSM-III-R. He also served as a special advisor on the
Task Force for DSM-IV.
Regarding the early history of trauma and dissociation a valuable resource is
the trauma and dissociation archive:-
http://libweb.uoregon.edu/index/news-app/story.1923


The article that went with this

Dr. Harold Merskey, DM, FRCP, FRCPC, FRCPsych.
Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry
71 Logan Avenue, London, Ontario N5Y 2P9 Canada
Tel: (h) 519-672-2298; (o) 519-679-1045; Fax: 519-679-6849
e-mail: harold.merskey@...




March 9th, 2009



Dr. David J. Kupfer, MD
Chair of DSM-V Committee,
Dr. Thomas Detre Professor and Chair, Department of Psychiatry
Professor of Neuroscience, Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic
5811 O'Hara Street
Pittsburgh, PA 15215

RE: Dissociative Identity Disorder and DSM-V

Dear Dr. Kupfer:

We are writing to you to express concern with respect to the continuation of
Dissociative Identity Disorder as an approved diagnosis within the forthcoming
DSM-V. We believe that the identification of Multiple Personality Disorder, and
later its name change as Dissociative Identity Disorder, has been extremely
harmful to the good sense and reputation of psychiatry, not to mention the cause
of grave ill-effects to large numbers of patients and their families. In the
attached document we maintain that the diagnosis should be removed from DSM-V
and we provide the basis for our request.


Respectfully,

Signatories
(Please see Appendix A)







Please see attached.

TO: DSM-V Task Force &
Work Group on Anxiety, Obsessive-Compulsive Spectrum,
Posttraumatic & Dissociative Disorders

Draft Statement on:

The Need to Remove Dissociative Identity Disorder from DSM-V



The evidence supporting this diagnosis as a distinct mental disorder is modest
whereas much suggests it to be a behavioral artifact equivalent in nature to
pseudo-epilepsy generated by suggestion in vulnerable people. Its identification
as a special, separate diagnostic entity in DSM has harmed the practice of
psychiatry and undermined its scientific credibility. Although it is important
for us to provide evidence to support these statements, we wish to avoid
excessive detail, given that such evidence has been documented widely in the
published literature.

Origins
The notion of dual personalities was founded upon cases of bipolar illness (1)
and was followed by the idea of extra personalities.  This expansion first
occurred with the hypnotically-induced introduction of a second personality and
the deliberate naming of those personalities as if they were separate entities
(1).

Prevalence
Taylor and Martin (2) recognized a total of 76 cases occurring between 1816 and
1944--slightly more than one every two years; they thought a similar number
might be unreported. In 1954 Thigpen and Cleckley (3) reported their case, which
was published as "The Three Faces of Eve" in 1957. After a film was made of this
case, the numbers of reported cases increased steadily; there was a further
dramatic leap after the film of "Sybil". (Reference?) By 1990 thousands of cases
were being diagnosed; some authors identified more cases in their personal
practices than had been described in the literature over an entire century.

Twentieth Century Suggestion
As is well known, Sybil, a patient of Dr. Cornelia Wilbur, was fully aware that
her therapist wanted her to create extra personalities (4).  In 1973, Dr. Wilbur
gave tape recordings of Sybil's interviews to Schreiber [the journalist who
reported Sybil as a case of multiple personality disorder (5)]. Schreiber made
the recordings available to Ronald Rieber, a professor of psychology, who
amassed evidence showing that at least some of the personalities were artifacts
overtly created in treatment (6).

Etiology
Dissociative Identity Disorder is often alleged to result from repressing an
experience of childhood sexual abuse. This claim has not received adequate
scientific validation. For example, Piper and Merskey (7) reviewed all the
studies that claimed to corroborate DID patients' abuse recollections. These
authors concluded that "no evidence supports the claim that DID patients as a
group have actually experienced the traumas asserted by the disorder's
proponents" (7).

Proponents of the DID diagnosis assert that horrific, repeated childhood
physical and sexual abuse is the primary cause of DID.  Victims supposedly
develop their multiple personalities as repositories for traumatic memories that
the "host" personality is unable to tolerate consciously. The DID diagnosis thus
relies on the concept of traumatic Dissociative Amnesia (DA or "repression"):
the notion that the mind protects itself by banishing terrifying memories from
awareness, rendering them inaccessible until the person feels psychologically
safe to recall them, often years later.  There is no convincing evidence that
victims can become incapable of recalling genuinely traumatic experiences, as
the trauma theory of DID requires (8). Indeed, an extensive survey of the
historical literature, including both fictional and non-fictional written works
in multiple languages, found no written example of "dissociative amnesia" prior
to 1786 (9).  Thus the notion of "repressing" a memory itself, like DID, appears
to represent a recent culture-bound phenomenon, rather than a naturally
occurring human psychological process.

In a comprehensive analysis of studies of people with documented trauma
histories, not a single mention of spontaneous amnesia for the traumatic event
was found—unless the forgetting was attributable to either organic amnesia or
childhood amnesia (10).  Finally, an examination of Freud's original work gives
reason to think that the evidence from psychoanalysis for repression is also
very unsatisfactory (11, 12).

Harmful Effects
Due to the assumption that trauma is a primary etiological factor, the DID
diagnosis has resulted in wrongful accusations of sexual abuse on the basis of
recovered memories, not only in North America but throughout the developed world
(references). DID has caused mockery of psychiatry, and, for patients, has led
to misdiagnosis (13) and inadequate treatment of depression (14) [not only
depression, but other disorders that it's distracted attention away from; also,
this reference seems rather thin to make a strong statement on. Perhaps it would
be better not to reference this, but simply assert that treatable causes of
problems are missed when the DID diagnosis is applied].

Lack of Consensus
Canadian and American psychiatrists show little consensus regarding the
diagnostic status and scientific validity of DID; in surveys of board-certified
psychiatrists in the United States (15) and Canada (16), it was found that fewer
than one-third of Canadian psychiatrists and 35% of American psychiatrists
replied that DA & DID should be included without reservations in the DSM-IV;
fewer than 1 in 7 Canadian psychiatrists and only 21-23% of American
psychiatrists felt that there was "strong evidence of validity" for these
disorders.  French- and English-speaking Canadians had similar opinions.

Conclusions
There are overwhelming reasons to question the validity of Dissociative Identity
Disorder. We respectfully urge you as members of the Work Group and the Task
Force to drop the category of dissociative disorders from the upcoming DSM-V
because it is scientifically unjustified, clinically harmful to patients and
their families, and it undermines the credibility of psychiatry.

Signatories
Please see Appendix A.




REFERENCES

1. Merskey, H. (1992a). The manufacture of personalities. The production of
multiple personality disorder.  Brit. J. Psychiat., 160:327-340.

2. Taylor W.F. & Martin M.F. (1944) Multiple personality.  J. Abnormal & Soc.
Psychol., 39:281-330.
3. Thigpen, C.H. & Cleckley, H.M.  (1957). The Three Faces of Eve.  New York:
McGraw-Hill.
4. Spiegel, H.  (1993) Mistaken Identities: Toronto.  Canadian Broadcasting
Corporation.  The Fifth Estate, 9 November 1993.
5. Schreiber, F.R. (1973) Sybil.  Chicago: Henry Regnery.
6. Rieber, R.W. (2006) The Bifurcation of the Self.  The History and Theory of
Dissociation and Its Disorders.  New York: Springer Science.
7. Piper, A., Merskey, H., (2004). The persistence of folly: a critical
examination of dissociative identity disorder. Part I. The excesses of an
improbable concept. Can J Psychiatry 49 (9): 592-600.
8. McNally, R. J. (2003) Remembering Trauma. Belknap Press/Harvard University
Press: Cambridge, MA.
9. Pope, H.G. Jr., Poliakoff, M.B., Parker, M.P., Boynes, M.D., & Hudson, J.I.
(2007)   Is dissociative amnesia a culture-bound syndrome?  Findings from a
survey of historical literature.  Psychol. Med., 37(2):225-233.
10. Pope, H. G. Jr., Oliva, P., Hudson, J.I.: (2005) Repressed memories. The
scientific status of research on repressed memories, in Modern Scientific
Evidence: The Law and Science of Expert Testimony -- Social and Behavioral
Science, 2005-2006 Edition. Edited by Faigman D, Kaye D, Saks M, Sanders J.
Eagen, MN, West Group, pp 408-447.
11. Esterson, A. (1993) Seductive Mirage.  Open Court: Chicago.
12. Crews, F. (1998) Unauthorized Freud: Doubters Confront a Legend.  New York:
Viking.
13. Freeland, A., Manchanda, R., Chiu, S., et al. (1993) Four cases of supposed
multiple personality disorder: evidence of unjustified diagnoses.  Can. J.
Psychiat., 23: 245-247.
14. Fetkewicz, J., Sharma, V. & Merskey, H. (2000) A note on suicidal
deterioration with recovered memory, treatment.  J. Affect. Dis., 58:155-159.
15. Pope, H.G., Jr., Oliva, P.S., Hudson, J.I., Bodkin, J.A. & Gruber, A.J.
(1999) Attitudes toward DSM-IV Dissociative Disorders Diagnoses among
Board-Certified American Psychiatrists.  Am. J. Psychiat., 2000; 157:1179-1180.
16. Lalonde, J.K., Hudson, J.I., Gigante, R.A. & Pope, H.G. Jr.  (2001) Canadian
and American psychiatrists' attitudes toward Dissociative Disorders diagnoses.
Can. J. Psychiat., 46(5): 407-412.

Appendix A

List of Signatories



1. Paul R. McHugh, M.D. Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns
Hopkins University.
2. Harrison Pope, Jr., MD, MPH, Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School,
Boston, Massachusetts; Director, Biological Psychiatry Laboratory, McLean
Hospital, Belmont Massachusetts
3. James Hudson, MD, ScD, Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School,
Boston, Massachusetts; Director, Biological Psychiatry Laboratory, McLean
Hospital, Belmont Massachusetts
4. Elizabeth Loftus, PhD, Distinguished Professor, University of
California-Irvine.
5. Richard J. McNally, Ph.D., Professor and Director of Clinical Training,
Department of Psychology, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA.
6. Harold Merskey, DM, FRCP, FRCPC, FRCPsych., Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry.
7. Joel Paris, M.D. (M.B., B.Ch.)
8. August Piper, M.D., independent practice of psychiatry, Seattle, WA.
9. Numan Gharaibeh, MD (MB, BCh), Principal Psychiatrist, Western Connecticut
Mental Health Network, Danbury, CT.
10. Pamela Freyd, Ph.D.
11. Brian Boffi, MD, Principal Psychiatrist, Western Connecticut Mental Health
Network, Torrington, Torrington, CT.
12. Alexander Miano, M.D.
13. Joanne Iurato, PhD, Clinical Director, Western Connecticut Mental Health
Network, Danbury, CT.
14. Donna Pellerin, M.D., Medical Director of Inpatient Services, Danbury
Hospital, Danbury, CT.
15. Jennifer Ballew, DO, Principal Psychiatrist, Western Connecticut Mental
Health Network, Waterbury, CT


to sit back and see evil yet do nothing is evil itself.
for people with D.I.D.    http://dissociativedisorders.blogspot.com/
for people interested in Ghosts http://ghosts-couldtheysnatchyou.blogspot.com/

Hi Brigid,
that then could be something that happened as a child in the abuse or something
that made her think that she had " she has a  black hole in her head" show her a
mirror and let her see that there is no hole there now.

Our old what you have called a host is not anymore in control she could not
handle a flash back and is now in hiding. but she was like that too if she did
not like the alter she would not let us out. All that is changed since and utter
bedlam has come since then for us.

so be careful with it that things don't get out of hand and know what is going
on if you can sounds like you have a good relationship with them so talking to
them is easy and it is something that is a needed thing for you and them.

Joe(16)



--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, Brigid Hanley <karisma12@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Joe,
>
> Her DID was caused by extreme physical and sexual abuse from age 2-14....We've
been working on it today, and I think that the host is angry at alters that
don't believe that the abuse happened and is locking them from coming out. We
went to see her therapist today, and we convinced the host to allow them out,
but I am still concerned about how to resolve this conflict in the system.
>
> Brigid

Hey Joe,

Her DID was caused by extreme physical and sexual abuse from age 2-14....We've
been working on it today, and I think that the host is angry at alters that
don't believe that the abuse happened and is locking them from coming out. We
went to see her therapist today, and we convinced the host to allow them out,
but I am still concerned about how to resolve this conflict in the system.

Brigid




________________________________
From: crystal_fire_walker <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:20:41 AM
Subject: [MPD Spouses] Re: Needing advice


Hi Brigid,

I am wondering what coursed your SO to have DID? this might hold the key to an
answer

Joe (16)

--- In mpdspouses@yahoogro ups.com, Brigid Hanley <karisma12@. ..> wrote:
>
> Okay,I've got a situation going on with my SO that I could really use some
opinions on. My SO's system consists of 13 alters (including the body) that
range in  age from 3-40ish (the body is 28). This morning the six-year-old alter
woke up (which she almost never does) and was very upset. Normally the alters
switch back and forth at will....to talk to three or four alters in a hour is
normal...but this morning she was unable to leave so that one of the adult
alters could come through. She's not sure what's going on, but keeps telling me
that she has a  black hole in her head. Has anyone (DID or SO) ever seen or
experienced anything like this before? I would really appreciate any opinions on
this.
>
> Thanks a lot!
> Brigid
>
>
>
> I
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Brigid,

I am wondering what coursed your SO to have DID? this might hold the key to an
answer

Joe (16)

--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, Brigid Hanley <karisma12@...> wrote:
>
> Okay,I've got a situation going on with my SO that I could really use some
opinions on. My SO's system consists of 13 alters (including the body) that
range in  age from 3-40ish (the body is 28). This morning the six-year-old alter
woke up (which she almost never does) and was very upset. Normally the alters
switch back and forth at will....to talk to three or four alters in a hour is
normal...but this morning she was unable to leave so that one of the adult
alters could come through. She's not sure what's going on, but keeps telling me
that she has a  black hole in her head. Has anyone (DID or SO) ever seen or
experienced anything like this before? I would really appreciate any opinions on
this.
>
> Thanks a lot!
> Brigid
>
>
>
> I
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Okay,I've got a situation going on with my SO that I could really use some
opinions on. My SO's system consists of 13 alters (including the body) that
range in  age from 3-40ish (the body is 28). This morning the six-year-old alter
woke up (which she almost never does) and was very upset. Normally the alters
switch back and forth at will....to talk to three or four alters in a hour is
normal...but this morning she was unable to leave so that one of the adult
alters could come through. She's not sure what's going on, but keeps telling me
that she has a  black hole in her head. Has anyone (DID or SO) ever seen or
experienced anything like this before? I would really appreciate any opinions on
this.

Thanks a lot!
Brigid



I




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gail,
     My name is Brigid, and I am very new to the group. I have been with my SO
for ten years. She has just been diagnosed in the last year, but i have been
getting to know her system for about 8 years.
  I am very new to this group , (actually your post was the first I received) but
I wanted to respond to your post. The main thing I wanted to let you know is
that you shouldn't take your SO's secrecy personally. In my (limited) experience
how a system works and how open they are with names, facts, etc. has very little
to do with you. What I'm trying to say is that in every system there is usually
some form of protector....the guy (My SO's are guys anyway) who protects
everyone...from everything you can imagine, including rejection and scrutiny. If
this guy is doing his job right, the system is often very protective of any
"system secrets" are shared. Again, these decisions have more to do with your SO
than anything you have or haven't done. I know it can be painful to not know
what is going on with your SO, but to be honest, sometimes it can be even more
painful to know.

Be patient, and don't be too hard on yourself.
Brigid





________________________________


--- In mpdspouses@yahoogro ups.com, "gail.robinson" <grobinson@. ..> wrote:>> As
I read these posts, I can't help feeling a bit envious of> the openess you all
seem to experience within your SO's system.> I have been with my SO for 24
years, and I have not even been> able to know any names or specifics regarding
his interior world.> It would sure be nice to be "let-in" enough to at least
know names of > OM's when you recognize they are out. I am totally shut-out when
it> comes to any revealation of this sort. It's very painful to feel so >
shut-out when I love him so very much.> > What did any of you do to get to that
point? I'd love any feedback that> any of you have regarding this.>

> Take Care,
> Gail
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Pandora and the Collective,
welcome to the group I am also D.I.D too and so is my partner we are both so
Life is interesting to say the lest and this group and one of the Google Groups
has been a god send with help and information for us.

I would have to say we are the same with respect to questions and answers, if we
can answer them and are ok with doing so then we will if not then we would say
so too.

I am in therapy too while I Live in Australia things are a little different with
the way things work from that of over there. but My soon to be wife is from USA
so she might know more of it then I would.

good to see and meat you,

Joe(16) {body mark}

--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, "pandoracollective" <pandoracollective@...>
wrote:
>
>  Hi everyone! I'm a newbie here. Just wanted to get this out of the way don't
have any idea what is expected as an intro so I'll just say this...
>  My name is Pandora, the body is 46, live in the USA.
> I'm a multiple, yes I'm in therapy.
>
> Feel free to ask questions, I'll feel free to choose to answer them or tell
you if I'm not comfortable with them. But either way I will ALWAYS be honest
with you!
>
> Love is the answer, Pandora & the Collective
>

Hi everyone! I'm a newbie here. Just wanted to get this out of the way don't
have any idea what is expected as an intro so I'll just say this...
  My name is Pandora, the body is 46, live in the USA.
I'm a multiple, yes I'm in therapy.

Feel free to ask questions, I'll feel free to choose to answer them or tell you
if I'm not comfortable with them. But either way I will ALWAYS be honest with
you!

Love is the answer, Pandora & the Collective

Gail,
   Hi, I am new here in the group but wanted you to have more than just one
response to your question.
   It sounds to me like your S/O is still very secrective and closed off about
his condition. He may not be ready to talk about it with anyone. Hopefully he is
in therapy?
   No two multiples are alike. Some are so good at hiding themselves that you
would be hard pressed to prove they were multiple unless they choose to come out
to you. The thing many people forget is this condition isn't developed to get
attention.
  I didn't become a multiple to be noticed, I became a multiple to hide what was
happening from everyone. Part of that was acting "normal" even though we knew we
would never be like the other kids (which of course we believed was our fault)
we had one or more who could be.
  When you see your husband realise each part has or had a reason for being.
Either a job to do, or a memory to hold, something that they are or were needed
for. But above all the job all alters have is to NOT GET CAUGHT! To always
appear normal. So when you ask who is out at least at  first that will probably
cause an internal fear response. Many of us still respond that way and we have
been in therapy over 20 years.
  If he isn't in therapy getting him to open up might not be such a good
experiance for either of you. Reguardless it might not bring you closer like you
think. Quite the oppisite effect has been known to happen too. With the good
comes the bad. And really the depths of sorrow and pain that some multiples have
should only be dumped on a therapist. Just my opinion.
  I am surprised that in 24 years you have never discovered even one of their
names. That by itself speaks volumes about how secrective and scarred his system
must be. I have helped therapists in my area with other multiples and I've found
that in general those that like us take a long time to disclose anything or
anyone have the most trust & secretcy issues they were for lack of a better term
"were more deeply ingrained" usually with what I call the catch 22 or double
bind, It is making the child feel they chose to be abused. Like giving them a
choice between A or B  both are abuses and there are no non-abusive choices but
the child chooses their own abuse. That makes them a part of the abuse in their
eyes and sometimes the abuser even brings another child into the abusive
relationship forcing the first child to abuse the other child to ensure that the
silence isn't broken.
  Reguardless of why your husband hasn't been able to share his childhood with
you (opening up about who is out would start that process you probably can't
have it both ways)You have been together 24 years! That hopefully says you two
are doing something right. I'd hope you would have done something before now if
you'd been miserable all that time. ABOVE all be patient and love him. Mobt
multiples have experianced little or no unconditional love. That being said I
think I should also say with apropriate broundries.
  I hope this made some sense to you and would love to hear how you are doing
now.

     Love is the answer, Pandora & the Collective




--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, "gail.robinson" <grobinson@...> wrote:
>
> As I read these posts, I can't help feeling a bit envious of
> the openess you all seem to experience within your SO's system.
> I have been with my SO for 24 years, and I have not even been
> able to know any names or specifics regarding his interior world.
> It would sure be nice to be "let-in" enough to at least know names of
> OM's when you recognize they are out. I am totally shut-out when it
> comes to any revealation of this sort. It's very painful to feel so
> shut-out when I love him so very much.
>
> What did any of you do to get to that point? I'd love any feedback that
> any of you have regarding this.
>
> Take Care,
> Gail
>

John,
 
thanks for the support of my words.  I love my husband and hope to see him at
his best sometime in the near future.  We survive as a family only on a wing and
so many prayers the go unnumbered.  I hope your family is well, sounds like your
DID is no longer in your life and that is a sad thing but far too common.  I
would love to talk to those who are truly spouses of DID who themselves are not
DID just so I don't feel so damned alone and just plain crazy for trying to
stick with it.
Thanks again
Thea

--- On Tue, 2/3/09, David <slimpoint@...> wrote:

From: David <slimpoint@...>
Subject: Re: [MPD Spouses] Hi to all
To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 8:09 PM






I could not agree with Thea more.  My spouse (now ex, due to her angry alters)
ravaged our kids college funds and spent the money on drugs, had myriads of
affairs, raged at my kids and I, and then as Thea said, would be the sweetest
person in the world.  I can only imagine the hell that she went through, and the
hell she is on now.  But it is also hell living with someone who behaves like
that.  It puts you into a different sphere of reality, one that you wish you
never knew.

John

--- On Mon, 2/2/09, Thea <wishin52@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Thea <wishin52@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [MPD Spouses] Hi to all
To: mpdspouses@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 4:02 PM

Nathan,

I have no idea your position regarding age, other opportunities, children,
finances etc. so it is rather presumptive of me to even offer an answer. however
I noticed that no spouses of DIDs replied to you

 

So here is a take from the other side.

IF and only if your girl is indeed in therapy aimed at working on her DID then
there is perhaps hope for a real relationship that is not continually a roller
coaster ride.  If she is indeed in therapy then the work will take 3-5 years and
you will be riding that ride the whole time until coconsciousness is achieved.

 

Otherwise I would say you have no idea what you are in for.  There is no book
that I have read thus far that even begins to describe how awful it is for the
"normal" person inside a DID relationship.  We are treated alternately horribly
and wonderfully and sometimes just ignored and treated as though we don't exist.

 

If you are planning on having children with this woman, you are doing your
children a gross dis-service.  NOW all you with DID please don't go getting up
in arms, I have seen the adverse effects on my family and don't wish that on
anyone.  Granted my boys have a play buddy unparalleled and in some regards that
is a great thing, but as for having a co-parent, well he exists sometimes and
not others and that is difficult.  Plus he has a child's view of discipline so
it is often skewed weirdly.

 

It is not easy being involved with a DID and we (the whole family) had to
threaten to leave our DID in order to get him into therapy because our house was
in such a sad state of affairs.  I would also recommend that you guard your
finances as they don't always know that they all are spending and that costs
more than supporting one person, if that makes sense.

 

Sory if this is a bit long but there is so much more to understand for you.

Thea

--- On Sun, 2/1/09, ndoss36 <ndoss36@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: ndoss36 <ndoss36@yahoo. com>

Subject: [MPD Spouses] Hi to all

To: mpdspouses@yahoogro ups.com

Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 12:31 PM

Hello

My name is Nathan and I have been dating a wondeful woman for 13

months now. About five months ago I noticed little changes but

dismissed it thought she was just being nervous. I had a few things

happen that made me begin to think about all the little things I

saw. I started reading everybook I could get my hands on until I

finally put the puzzle together. It has not been easy for her and I

could never figure that out. I could tell she wanted and enjoyed

very much being with me but I noticed at times when I looked into

her eyes that there was something different. It has taken me awhile

and waiting for the right time to ask if she had DID. Once I did it

through her system into a state of panic. Its been a month now since

I have talked with her but have had many encounters with her alters.

Everything from get lost buddy to your nice but it would be better

if you just forgot about her. If I had not known and she said these

things I would have been deeply hurt but thank god I knew what was

going on. She did tell me that night she said yes to DID that no one

in her family knows not even her three kids and that I was not to

tell anyone. Then her alter Kim showed up (the protector) and said a

few nice words to me. I care so much about her and it hurts to know

she is going through this alone. She claims she is seeing a

therapist but to be honest I really dont know. Her daughter is mad

at me because she thinks I hurt her which I dont. I am just

overwhelmed and I hope one day she will come back.

nate

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I could not agree with Thea more.  My spouse (now ex, due to her angry alters)
ravaged our kids college funds and spent the money on drugs, had myriads of
affairs, raged at my kids and I, and then as Thea said, would be the sweetest
person in the world.  I can only imagine the hell that she went through, and the
hell she is on now.  But it is also hell living with someone who behaves like
that.  It puts you into a different sphere of reality, one that you wish you
never knew.

John

--- On Mon, 2/2/09, Thea <wishin52@...> wrote:

From: Thea <wishin52@...>
Subject: Re: [MPD Spouses] Hi to all
To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 4:02 PM













Nathan,

I have no idea your position regarding age, other opportunities, children,
finances etc. so it is rather presumptive of me to even offer an answer. however
I noticed that no spouses of DIDs replied to you

 

So here is a take from the other side.

IF and only if your girl is indeed in therapy aimed at working on her DID then
there is perhaps hope for a real relationship that is not continually a roller
coaster ride.  If she is indeed in therapy then the work will take 3-5 years and
you will be riding that ride the whole time until coconsciousness is achieved.

 

Otherwise I would say you have no idea what you are in for.  There is no book
that I have read thus far that even begins to describe how awful it is for the
"normal" person inside a DID relationship.  We are treated alternately horribly
and wonderfully and sometimes just ignored and treated as though we don't exist.

 

If you are planning on having children with this woman, you are doing your
children a gross dis-service.  NOW all you with DID please don't go getting up
in arms, I have seen the adverse effects on my family and don't wish that on
anyone.  Granted my boys have a play buddy unparalleled and in some regards that
is a great thing, but as for having a co-parent, well he exists sometimes and
not others and that is difficult.  Plus he has a child's view of discipline so
it is often skewed weirdly.

 

It is not easy being involved with a DID and we (the whole family) had to
threaten to leave our DID in order to get him into therapy because our house was
in such a sad state of affairs.  I would also recommend that you guard your
finances as they don't always know that they all are spending and that costs
more than supporting one person, if that makes sense.

 

Sory if this is a bit long but there is so much more to understand for you.

Thea

--- On Sun, 2/1/09, ndoss36 <ndoss36@yahoo. com> wrote:



From: ndoss36 <ndoss36@yahoo. com>

Subject: [MPD Spouses] Hi to all

To: mpdspouses@yahoogro ups.com

Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 12:31 PM



Hello

My name is Nathan and I have been dating a wondeful woman for 13

months now. About five months ago I noticed little changes but

dismissed it thought she was just being nervous. I had a few things

happen that made me begin to think about all the little things I

saw. I started reading everybook I could get my hands on until I

finally put the puzzle together. It has not been easy for her and I

could never figure that out. I could tell she wanted and enjoyed

very much being with me but I noticed at times when I looked into

her eyes that there was something different. It has taken me awhile

and waiting for the right time to ask if she had DID. Once I did it

through her system into a state of panic. Its been a month now since

I have talked with her but have had many encounters with her alters.

Everything from get lost buddy to your nice but it would be better

if you just forgot about her. If I had not known and she said these

things I would have been deeply hurt but thank god I knew what was

going on. She did tell me that night she said yes to DID that no one

in her family knows not even her three kids and that I was not to

tell anyone. Then her alter Kim showed up (the protector) and said a

few nice words to me. I care so much about her and it hurts to know

she is going through this alone. She claims she is seeing a

therapist but to be honest I really dont know. Her daughter is mad

at me because she thinks I hurt her which I dont. I am just

overwhelmed and I hope one day she will come back.



nate



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nathan,
Sorry my wisdom, is not more encouraging but the truth is, most relationships do
not survive DID.  If she listens at all encourage her to work with a DID
therapist towards making her life more livable and more centered, not even
integration or co-anything, just more positive and the rest will come with it
because a true DID therapist won't leave the rest alone but any other therapist
will probably not even know why they are striking out so much of the time with
the "personality" they meet with, probably feeling a bit of a failure.  It is
hard even for therapists as so many of them do not have any clue about DID. 
 
Try to be a friend not an enabler.  That too is a tough call.
Thea

--- On Mon, 2/2/09, Nathan Doss <ndoss36@...> wrote:

From: Nathan Doss <ndoss36@...>
Subject: Re: [MPD Spouses] Hi to all
To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 1:25 PM






Hi Thea

I am 39 years old and have two kids and she has three of her own. They do not
know there mom has DID nor does her family know. Personally I dont think her
therapist helps her but then again I am not there to know.. I understand what
your saying in your emial for I have thought of those things to. Everyone needs
a friend at least I think so. I have come to the reality that I probably do not
have a future with this woman because she just does not talk to me anymore. I
understand about the money thing to. I have helped her in alot of ways
financially but never really knew what was going on. I dont her much from her
and if I do its usually a lil one or the alter that does not like me at all. I
have felt taken advantage of at times but then I did not know what was going on.
I am a kind guy with a good heart and I help people when I see they need it.
Good for her bad for me I guess.. Thank you for your wisdom.

Nate

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Thea <wishin52@yahoo. com>
To: mpdspouses@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Monday, February 2, 2009 3:02:04 PM
Subject: Re: [MPD Spouses] Hi to all

Nathan,
I have no idea your position regarding age, other opportunities, children,
finances etc. so it is rather presumptive of me to even offer an answer. however
I noticed that no spouses of DIDs replied to you
 
So here is a take from the other side.
IF and only if your girl is indeed in therapy aimed at working on her DID then
there is perhaps hope for a real relationship that is not continually a roller
coaster ride.  If she is indeed in therapy then the work will take 3-5 years and
you will be riding that ride the whole time until coconsciousness is achieved.
 
Otherwise I would say you have no idea what you are in for.  There is no book
that I have read thus far that even begins to describe how awful it is for the
"normal" person inside a DID relationship.  We are treated alternately horribly
and wonderfully and sometimes just ignored and treated as though we don't exist.
 
If you are planning on having children with this woman, you are doing your
children a gross dis-service.  NOW all you with DID please don't go getting up
in arms, I have seen the adverse effects on my family and don't wish that on
anyone.  Granted my boys have a play buddy unparalleled and in some regards that
is a great thing, but as for having a co-parent, well he exists sometimes and
not others and that is difficult.  Plus he has a child's view of discipline so
it is often skewed weirdly.
 
It is not easy being involved with a DID and we (the whole family) had to
threaten to leave our DID in order to get him into therapy because our house was
in such a sad state of affairs.  I would also recommend that you guard your
finances as they don't always know that they all are spending and that costs
more than supporting one person, if that makes sense.
 
Sory if this is a bit long but there is so much more to understand for you.
Thea
--- On Sun, 2/1/09, ndoss36 <ndoss36@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: ndoss36 <ndoss36@yahoo. com>
Subject: [MPD Spouses] Hi to all
To: mpdspouses@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 12:31 PM

Hello
My name is Nathan and I have been dating a wondeful woman for 13
months now. About five months ago I noticed little changes but
dismissed it thought she was just being nervous. I had a few things
happen that made me begin to think about all the little things I
saw. I started reading everybook I could get my hands on until I
finally put the puzzle together. It has not been easy for her and I
could never figure that out. I could tell she wanted and enjoyed
very much being with me but I noticed at times when I looked into
her eyes that there was something different. It has taken me awhile
and waiting for the right time to ask if she had DID. Once I did it
through her system into a state of panic. Its been a month now since
I have talked with her but have had many encounters with her alters.
Everything from get lost buddy to your nice but it would be better
if you just forgot about her. If I had not known and she said these
things I would have been deeply hurt but thank god I knew what was
going on. She did tell me that night she said yes to DID that no one
in her family knows not even her three kids and that I was not to
tell anyone. Then her alter Kim showed up (the protector) and said a
few nice words to me. I care so much about her and it hurts to know
she is going through this alone. She claims she is seeing a
therapist but to be honest I really dont know. Her daughter is mad
at me because she thinks I hurt her which I dont. I am just
overwhelmed and I hope one day she will come back.

nate

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Thea

I am 39 years old and have two kids and she has three of her own. They do not
know there mom has DID nor does her family know. Personally I dont think her
therapist helps her but then again I am not there to know.. I understand what
your saying in your emial for I have thought of those things to. Everyone needs
a friend at least I think so. I have come to the reality that I probably do not
have a future with this woman because she just does not talk to me anymore. I
understand about the money thing to. I have helped her in alot of ways
financially but never really knew what was going on. I dont her much from her
and if I do its usually a lil one or the alter that does not like me at all. I
have felt taken advantage of at times but then I did not know what was going on.
I am a kind guy with a good heart and I help people when I see they need it.
Good for her bad for me I guess.. Thank you for your wisdom.

Nate




________________________________
From: Thea <wishin52@...>
To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 2, 2009 3:02:04 PM
Subject: Re: [MPD Spouses] Hi to all



Nathan,
I have no idea your position regarding age, other opportunities, children,
finances etc. so it is rather presumptive of me to even offer an answer. however
I noticed that no spouses of DIDs replied to you
 
So here is a take from the other side.
IF and only if your girl is indeed in therapy aimed at working on her DID then
there is perhaps hope for a real relationship that is not continually a roller
coaster ride.  If she is indeed in therapy then the work will take 3-5 years and
you will be riding that ride the whole time until coconsciousness is achieved.
 
Otherwise I would say you have no idea what you are in for.  There is no book
that I have read thus far that even begins to describe how awful it is for the
"normal" person inside a DID relationship.  We are treated alternately horribly
and wonderfully and sometimes just ignored and treated as though we don't exist.
 
If you are planning on having children with this woman, you are doing your
children a gross dis-service.  NOW all you with DID please don't go getting up
in arms, I have seen the adverse effects on my family and don't wish that on
anyone.  Granted my boys have a play buddy unparalleled and in some regards that
is a great thing, but as for having a co-parent, well he exists sometimes and
not others and that is difficult.  Plus he has a child's view of discipline so
it is often skewed weirdly.
 
It is not easy being involved with a DID and we (the whole family) had to
threaten to leave our DID in order to get him into therapy because our house was
in such a sad state of affairs.  I would also recommend that you guard your
finances as they don't always know that they all are spending and that costs
more than supporting one person, if that makes sense.
 
Sory if this is a bit long but there is so much more to understand for you.
Thea
--- On Sun, 2/1/09, ndoss36 <ndoss36@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: ndoss36 <ndoss36@yahoo. com>
Subject: [MPD Spouses] Hi to all
To: mpdspouses@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 12:31 PM

Hello
My name is Nathan and I have been dating a wondeful woman for 13
months now. About five months ago I noticed little changes but
dismissed it thought she was just being nervous. I had a few things
happen that made me begin to think about all the little things I
saw. I started reading everybook I could get my hands on until I
finally put the puzzle together. It has not been easy for her and I
could never figure that out. I could tell she wanted and enjoyed
very much being with me but I noticed at times when I looked into
her eyes that there was something different. It has taken me awhile
and waiting for the right time to ask if she had DID. Once I did it
through her system into a state of panic. Its been a month now since
I have talked with her but have had many encounters with her alters.
Everything from get lost buddy to your nice but it would be better
if you just forgot about her. If I had not known and she said these
things I would have been deeply hurt but thank god I knew what was
going on. She did tell me that night she said yes to DID that no one
in her family knows not even her three kids and that I was not to
tell anyone. Then her alter Kim showed up (the protector) and said a
few nice words to me. I care so much about her and it hurts to know
she is going through this alone. She claims she is seeing a
therapist but to be honest I really dont know. Her daughter is mad
at me because she thinks I hurt her which I dont. I am just
overwhelmed and I hope one day she will come back.

nate

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nathan,
I have no idea your position regarding age, other opportunities, children,
finances etc. so it is rather presumptive of me to even offer an answer. however
I noticed that no spouses of DIDs replied to you
 
So here is a take from the other side.
IF and only if your girl is indeed in therapy aimed at working on her DID then
there is perhaps hope for a real relationship that is not continually a roller
coaster ride.  If she is indeed in therapy then the work will take 3-5 years and
you will be riding that ride the whole time until coconsciousness is achieved.
 
Otherwise I would say you have no idea what you are in for.  There is no book
that I have read thus far that even begins to describe how awful it is for the
"normal" person inside a DID relationship.  We are treated alternately horribly
and wonderfully and sometimes just ignored and treated as though we don't exist.
 
If you are planning on having children with this woman, you are doing your
children a gross dis-service.  NOW all you with DID please don't go getting up
in arms, I have seen the adverse effects on my family and don't wish that on
anyone.  Granted my boys have a play buddy unparalleled and in some regards that
is a great thing, but as for having a co-parent, well he exists sometimes and
not others and that is difficult.  Plus he has a child's view of discipline so
it is often skewed weirdly.
 
It is not easy being involved with a DID and we (the whole family) had to
threaten to leave our DID in order to get him into therapy because our house was
in such a sad state of affairs.  I would also recommend that you guard your
finances as they don't always know that they all are spending and that costs
more than supporting one person, if that makes sense.
 
Sory if this is a bit long but there is so much more to understand for you.
Thea
--- On Sun, 2/1/09, ndoss36 <ndoss36@...> wrote:

From: ndoss36 <ndoss36@...>
Subject: [MPD Spouses] Hi to all
To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 12:31 PM






Hello
My name is Nathan and I have been dating a wondeful woman for 13
months now. About five months ago I noticed little changes but
dismissed it thought she was just being nervous. I had a few things
happen that made me begin to think about all the little things I
saw. I started reading everybook I could get my hands on until I
finally put the puzzle together. It has not been easy for her and I
could never figure that out. I could tell she wanted and enjoyed
very much being with me but I noticed at times when I looked into
her eyes that there was something different. It has taken me awhile
and waiting for the right time to ask if she had DID. Once I did it
through her system into a state of panic. Its been a month now since
I have talked with her but have had many encounters with her alters.
Everything from get lost buddy to your nice but it would be better
if you just forgot about her. If I had not known and she said these
things I would have been deeply hurt but thank god I knew what was
going on. She did tell me that night she said yes to DID that no one
in her family knows not even her three kids and that I was not to
tell anyone. Then her alter Kim showed up (the protector) and said a
few nice words to me. I care so much about her and it hurts to know
she is going through this alone. She claims she is seeing a
therapist but to be honest I really dont know. Her daughter is mad
at me because she thinks I hurt her which I dont. I am just
overwhelmed and I hope one day she will come back.

nate


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Nate;

One of the 'older' resident multiples here....don't post much, but read  most
everything.

I can hear your frustration and confusion - sorry you're going through such
a hard time.  Just a quick note here...

Everything you described in your last post is common to all multiples, in  my
opinion, especially those not with co-consciousness or co-operation, where
the condition is in control of the life rather than the system having majority
control.  From the others saying all sorts of contradictory statements to
you - even some trying to push you away (it's their job is what they know) to
the issues with trust.  Even those, like us, who have the 'C's"
(co-consciousness, cooperation, control, co-existence, etc.) so to speak, for 
the most part
and have been through good therapy and hard work still have issues  that we
have to work on for the rest of our lives.  It's not an easy road,  but it's
not impossible.

The one thing that struck me from your last post is this - it's a very easy
thing to say and a very simple concept to grasp, however - granted, it is
very,  very hard to put into practice.  From my observations and experiences,
breakthroughs have taken place in a relationship between singleton and  multiple
system when the singleton understands, accepts and does their best to  put
into practice the idea that...."you can't take it personally."  A  certain
objectivity and even some healthy emotional distance really is needed to  keep
yourself in the healthy place that you need to be if you choose to partner  a
multiple system.  Now, I'm not talking about specific behaviors  necessarily,
but
the general idea.  For example, you state that you've been  around, would have
been gone...'why can't she see that', etc.  Work hard  not to take it
personally - trust issues come with a multiple system no matter  who - good or
bad -
partners them.  Best you can do is use your objectivity  - know it is NOT about
you, the individual that you are, and partner them with  self-confidence,
rather than insecurity about yourself and resentment toward  them, have empathy
for the wound they carry that you did not inflict and  continue to be solid and
sure in your own skin.

As with 'normal' couples - when there is instability on one side of the
equation, there needs to be stability on the other.  When a multiple system  is
unstable over these basic tenet issues that we naturally have due to our
traumas - trust, shame, love, commitment etc., what is needed is a partner that 
can
show, present and provide stability and confidence to attempt to  balance,
not add more instability.

Remember - you know who you are, trustworthy or not, etc.  It is not
personal (though I KNOW it feels like it is..) and work hard to keep your
objectivity and empathy.  You can't take it personally....I know how that 
sounds, but
it's true and when practiced - can work.

My/our two cents,

Jen et al.
**************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to
stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

Thank you for your comment. I am not sure what you meant by do you know whom it
was that you fell for? When we met I did not know she had DID but knew there was
something going on. I was just slow in figuring it out.
I have had little ones tell me that we will just be friends and nothing more to
dont know why you would care about me, if it bother you to not hear from me for
so long I am not a good choice for a friend? I believe this is  two alters
talking not just one. maybe borderline personity to I dont know. Kim is the
protector and she does not like me around at all. Uses alot of bad language to
get her point across. She says all I want is sex from her and if I cant have
that I would just leave her. Not true at all. I see she is afraid of being
abandoned I think to. She told me when we first started dating that she did have
low self esteem but I always praised her for being so open with me. Trust is a
huge deal to her. Before I knew she had DID that was always something she would
text me randomly. It never ever made sense until I started putting the dots
together. I have not and will not tell anyone she has DID. What I dont get is we
have dated for 13 months and
  there were times she would not talk to me for 2 months at a time and yet
through all this I am still here. I dont understand why she cant see that. If I
did not care as I do I would have been gone 8 months ago. I have never given her
a reason to doubt my trust. I have always been a gentleman and understanding
through this whole thing. Perhaps thats why she always say your to nice and
someone who is to nice is to good to be true. I understand her concern but for
me I had a great upbring. Well thanks for listening.

Nate




________________________________
From: crystal_fire_walker <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 9:05:11 PM
Subject: [MPD Spouses] Re: Hi to all


Hi,
If her defender is saying what you said then you should be ok with her
i would think you will have ones all the time that are not going to be
friendly to you it is part of D.I.D I think at times and well you try
getting the numbers of alters as separate people to agree on the same
thing in the one room that is what it is like for us with D.I.D i
have only 64 alters and sometimes we can agree on things other times
we go with what the majority say and cop the pain from the ones that
have the shits over the choices we make.

Do you know whom it was that you fell for? is their some that are ok
with you being in her life?
Does she have low self esteem? i think when that is in play we push
our loved ones away more so, sometimes, trust is going to be a big
issue, if she was in treatment then your finding out of her D.I.D
should not have coursed a big issue other then if she does not know to
what extent that she can trust you to keep her secret.

--- In mpdspouses@yahoogro ups.com, "ndoss36" <ndoss36@... > wrote:
>
> Hello
> My name is Nathan and I have been dating a wondeful woman for 13
> months now. About five months ago I noticed little changes but
> dismissed it thought she was just being nervous. I had a few things
> happen that made me begin to think about all the little things I
> saw. I started reading everybook I could get my hands on until I
> finally put the puzzle together. It has not been easy for her and I
> could never figure that out. I could tell she wanted and enjoyed
> very much being with me but I noticed at times when I looked into
> her eyes that there was something different. It has taken me awhile
> and waiting for the right time to ask if she had DID. Once I did it
> through her system into a state of panic. Its been a month now since
> I have talked with her but have had many encounters with her alters.
> Everything from get lost buddy to your nice but it would be better
> if you just forgot about her. If I had not known and she said these
> things I would have been deeply hurt but thank god I knew what was
> going on. She did tell me that night she said yes to DID that no one
> in her family knows not even her three kids and that I was not to
> tell anyone. Then her alter Kim showed up (the protector) and said a
> few nice words to me. I care so much about her and it hurts to know
> she is going through this alone. She claims she is seeing a
> therapist but to be honest I really dont know. Her daughter is mad
> at me because she thinks I hurt her which I dont. I am just
> overwhelmed and I hope one day she will come back.
>
> nate
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,
If her defender is saying what you said then you should be ok with her
i would think you will have ones all the time that are not going to be
friendly to you it is part of D.I.D I think at times and well you try
getting the numbers of alters as separate people to agree on the same
thing in the one room that is what it is like for us with D.I.D  i
have only 64 alters and sometimes we can agree on things other times
we go with what the majority say and cop the pain from the ones that
have the shits over the choices we make.

Do you know whom it was that you fell for? is their some that are ok
with you being in her life?
Does she have low self esteem? i think when that is in play we push
our loved ones away more so, sometimes, trust is going to be a big
issue, if she was in treatment then your finding out of her D.I.D
should not have coursed a big issue other then if she does not know to
what extent that she can trust you to keep her secret.

--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, "ndoss36" <ndoss36@...> wrote:
>
> Hello
> My name is Nathan and I have been dating  a wondeful woman for 13
> months now. About five months ago I noticed little changes but
> dismissed it thought she was just being nervous. I had a few things
> happen that made me begin to think about all the little things I
> saw. I started reading everybook I could get my hands on until I
> finally put the puzzle together. It has not been easy for her and I
> could never figure that out. I could tell she wanted and enjoyed
> very much being with me but I noticed at times when I looked into
> her eyes that there was something different. It has taken me awhile
> and waiting for the right time to ask if she had DID. Once I did it
> through her system into a state of panic. Its been a month now since
> I have talked with her but have had many encounters with her alters.
> Everything from get lost buddy to your nice but it would be better
> if you just forgot about her. If I had not known and she said these
> things I would have been deeply hurt but thank god I knew what was
> going on. She did tell me that night she said yes to DID that no one
> in her family knows not even her three kids and that I was not to
> tell anyone. Then her alter Kim showed up (the protector) and said a
> few nice words to me. I care so much about her and it hurts to know
> she is going through this alone. She claims she is seeing a
> therapist but to be honest I really dont know. Her daughter is mad
> at me because she thinks I hurt her which I dont. I am just
> overwhelmed and I hope one day she will come back.
>
> nate
>

Hello
My name is Nathan and I have been dating  a wondeful woman for 13
months now. About five months ago I noticed little changes but
dismissed it thought she was just being nervous. I had a few things
happen that made me begin to think about all the little things I
saw. I started reading everybook I could get my hands on until I
finally put the puzzle together. It has not been easy for her and I
could never figure that out. I could tell she wanted and enjoyed
very much being with me but I noticed at times when I looked into
her eyes that there was something different. It has taken me awhile
and waiting for the right time to ask if she had DID. Once I did it
through her system into a state of panic. Its been a month now since
I have talked with her but have had many encounters with her alters.
Everything from get lost buddy to your nice but it would be better
if you just forgot about her. If I had not known and she said these
things I would have been deeply hurt but thank god I knew what was
going on. She did tell me that night she said yes to DID that no one
in her family knows not even her three kids and that I was not to
tell anyone. Then her alter Kim showed up (the protector) and said a
few nice words to me. I care so much about her and it hurts to know
she is going through this alone. She claims she is seeing a
therapist but to be honest I really dont know. Her daughter is mad
at me because she thinks I hurt her which I dont. I am just
overwhelmed and I hope one day she will come back.

nate

Yes.  Diane had a therapist while in the hospital who said she would not speak
to the alters and only worked with Diane.  And we saw a therapist for couples
therapy (partly to help deal with her DID) who said that if an alter came out,
the session would end.  The alters said they did come out, but they just didn't
let the therapist know.  On the other hand, later Diane came with me to see my
therapist, and when one of the alters came out, my therapist started talking to
her, knowing it was an alter, without missing a beat, and showed that she really
cared about the alters as well as Diane as a whole.  You can see a difference. 
While the alters are part of a whole, they do have individual needs that must be
addressed (or at least heard).  Fortunately, for us, Diane has been experiencing
a period of integration lately, so all is quiet on the DID front here.  Being
back in school, although stressful, has actually helped keep her (collectively)
motivated and pretty happy.

Jackie


---- Trish <rblegs@...> wrote:
> So...
>
> I have DID along with a few other things like chronic PTSD, depression, blah,
blah. After a huge fight with my ex...I started contacted therapists...again.
> I met with one today whose philosophy for treatment is - she will NEVER speak
with the alters - period. She says she's not certain they want me to get well
and so if they ever come out, she will refuse to speak to them and will call me
back out (as if she'd be that 'powerful'...I just heard one of them say). She
did nothing for me but increase the size of my ever-present migraine and get the
screaming started in my head. She said that her goal would be total integration
(she didn't ask us) and she wouldn't settle for less. I asked her if she wanted
to kill us...she said no - she just wanted there to be 1 me. So much screaming!
I came home and purchased alcohol and have been drinking for the last 2 hours. I
mean really - OMFG! So...after she said all that - she said she didn't have any
experience with DID and gave me a list of referrals. She still wants me to see
her for the depression and the trauma though and Jane told her 'Well...we can't
work through
>  the trauma without having the others come out to relive it; and since you're
so inexperienced with dealing with the likes of us - we'll pass!' Poor therapist
seems a bit offended. Has anyone else come across a therapist whose philosophy
is to not speak to the alters? I wonder if they know how rude that is and how
unhelpful. I don't know half of what happened to us as kids...hell - I'm a
little foggy about my daily adult life. I don't think she gets it.
>
> Anyway. I'm done venting.
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

So...

I have DID along with a few other things like chronic PTSD, depression, blah,
blah. After a huge fight with my ex...I started contacted therapists...again.
I met with one today whose philosophy for treatment is - she will NEVER speak
with the alters - period. She says she's not certain they want me to get well
and so if they ever come out, she will refuse to speak to them and will call me
back out (as if she'd be that 'powerful'...I just heard one of them say). She
did nothing for me but increase the size of my ever-present migraine and get the
screaming started in my head. She said that her goal would be total integration
(she didn't ask us) and she wouldn't settle for less. I asked her if she wanted
to kill us...she said no - she just wanted there to be 1 me. So much screaming!
I came home and purchased alcohol and have been drinking for the last 2 hours. I
mean really - OMFG! So...after she said all that - she said she didn't have any
experience with DID and gave me a list of referrals. She still wants me to see
her for the depression and the trauma though and Jane told her 'Well...we can't
work through
  the trauma without having the others come out to relive it; and since you're so
inexperienced with dealing with the likes of us - we'll pass!' Poor therapist
seems a bit offended. Has anyone else come across a therapist whose philosophy
is to not speak to the alters? I wonder if they know how rude that is and how
unhelpful. I don't know half of what happened to us as kids...hell - I'm a
little foggy about my daily adult life. I don't think she gets it.

Anyway. I'm done venting.
Thanks,




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for that info.  It was one of the first books I read and one
of the most informative for a lay person.  I would recommend it to
anyone wanting to know more about the subject.
Thanks again,

Mark





--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <dr6962000b@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> I found the book on Amazon.com from 8 USD please postage and it was
> for a new book just thought that you might like to know
>
> Mark
>
> --- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, magimark <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Trish,
> > Thanks so much for joining.  Since my wife had passed away, I
have not
> > done much with the group and you will probably find some spam on
the
> > messages.  I apologize for that.  I am trying to get back with
this
> > group so I can help people cope with this.
> > I can tell you that it is going to be a difficult battle for
you.
> > Sometimes (t)he(y) will say things that will hurt you but you
can't
> > take it personally.  The best thing he can do is journal and
work with
> > clay.  Journaling is the best thing and with the clay, they can
shape
> > their abusers and then destroy the clay figure.  I don't know
what the
> > situation was that caused this for him, but one of the best
books I
> > have ever read is called "More Than One" by Dr. Terri Clark.  It
is
> > out of print but you might find it in the libraty or online.
> > I will be periodically checking the messages, so if you need any
> > advice, I will do whatever I can to help you.
> > Hang in there,
> > Mark
> >
>

Thanks for this. He has been sending me really helpful Internet
website, giving me books, purchasing books, etc. I've met his doctors,
he's given me full access to all of his medical records - he really
can't do much more than that. And again - we talk and talk and talk
and talk. Any questions I have, he answers to the best that he can. If
I ask anything that causes triggers in him, he tells me. Anything that
we do that may trigger him, he tells me either during or before. We
talk alot.

We will add the book you've suggested to our reading material, thanks.
...and I will continue reading the archive here.

Trish

--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, edgy88 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
>
> HI Trish,  I am not a spouse, but a very good friend of somone with DID.
> I am close to many of her parts and I know how difficult it can be.  I
> just a read a very good book called "Shattered and Then.." by Laurie
> Morris.  She was married to a man with DID. It has a lot of religion in
> it, but even if you are not religious the marriage part of the book and
> DID may help you.  I found that educating myself, listening to all the
> parts, not judging and just being there for them is the best I can do.
> Therapy may be very important, but be careful about who the therapist is
> that you choose.   Not all of them are familiar with DID.  Your fiance
> probably does not even know all the horrible things that his parts may
> share with you.   It will be a challenging relationship, but also a very
> rewarding one.   Hang in there....one thing it took me a long time to
> "get" is dont take everything he says to you personally...you never know
> who you are talking to!  Also, as my friend and I do,,,have a sense a
> humor about it all...that will get your through the hard times!
>
> Donna
> --- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony" <brdlevel@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Trish,
> >
> >
> >
> > I found out my wife had DID 8 years in to our marriage.
> >
> > It is not easy. I first I thought it was under control..
> >
> > I was wrong.
> >
> >
> >
> > Anthony
> >
> >
> >
> > From: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of rblegs
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:38 AM
> > To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [MPD Spouses] New Here - Engaged to a Multiple
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings:
> >
> > My name is Trish. I have been dating a guy with MPD (DID) for a year
> > and a half now and we have become engaged. He told me right up front
> > that he had the disorder, so I 'knew' what I was getting into - or so
> > I thought. I find that at times I don't have a clue - truly I don't -
> > about what I'm dealing with and I get a bit baffled about what I see.
> > I am deeply, deeply in love with him (them) and was relieved when I
> > found this group yesterday. I will take my time and read each post -
> > believe me - and everything else available in this group so that I can
> > know how best to live and love in this relationship.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Trish
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Would you mind elaborating on your post a bit, please?

My fiance and I (and his alters) talk ALOT, though I mainly talk to the
main one that is out most of the time. I know that the personality born
to the body is dead and there are several inside that do not talk, some
that are dead, some that are defenders, some are female, etc. The main
one is female and probably the one that I fell in love with (though I
don't know for sure), so I have all sorts of self-reflection on my own
sexuality and question if I'm gay and whatnot. His voice isn't high or
anything, he doesn't 'act like a woman' but I do find myself chatting
with him like I do with a close girlfriend and I catch myself. It will
dawn on me that he really doesn't find 'those shoes cute' but during
those times...he 'feels' female to me and holy hell do I yap it up to
him just as if he is. Then its like I catch myself and I realize, he's a
guy again... Maybe the main one is a dyke? :)  I've see his children
alters come out at different times and giggle and play and be
mischievous...sometimes at times that I think are completely
inappropriate. They laugh, say mean, hurtful things to me and others and
general make me wonder sometimes if he's trying to drive me away;  but I
know - without a doubt in my mind - that he loves me so deeply and wants
to build a life with me, so I hold onto that. He has given me his trust
and allowed himself to feel and love when he's not done that before and
I feel so honored, so very honored. I just need to understand what I'm
supposed to do with my own feelings when the alters come out and attack
as 'don't take it personally' really only works for so long and the fact
that they have little or no accountability really pisses me off.  Just
speaking for myself - I had no part in his abuse. I myself have been
abused and suffer from chronic PTSD and depersonalization disorder
myself. It is not fair for his alters to attack me just for loving him,
or just because I am easiest to attack. So...since some of you have been
living with this for a much longer time than me - HELP!

Thanks.

Trish

--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony" <brdlevel@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Trish,
>
>
>
> I found out my wife had DID 8 years in to our marriage.
>
> It is not easy. I first I thought it was under control..
>
> I was wrong.
>
>
>
> Anthony

HI Trish,  I am not a spouse, but a very good friend of somone with DID.
I am close to many of her parts and I know how difficult it can be.  I
just a read a very good book called "Shattered and Then.." by Laurie
Morris.  She was married to a man with DID. It has a lot of religion in
it, but even if you are not religious the marriage part of the book and
DID may help you.  I found that educating myself, listening to all the
parts, not judging and just being there for them is the best I can do.
Therapy may be very important, but be careful about who the therapist is
that you choose.   Not all of them are familiar with DID.  Your fiance
probably does not even know all the horrible things that his parts may
share with you.   It will be a challenging relationship, but also a very
rewarding one.   Hang in there....one thing it took me a long time to
"get" is dont take everything he says to you personally...you never know
who you are talking to!  Also, as my friend and I do,,,have a sense a
humor about it all...that will get your through the hard times!

Donna
--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony" <brdlevel@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Trish,
>
>
>
> I found out my wife had DID 8 years in to our marriage.
>
> It is not easy. I first I thought it was under control..
>
> I was wrong.
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
> From: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com]
On
> Behalf Of rblegs
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:38 AM
> To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MPD Spouses] New Here - Engaged to a Multiple
>
>
>
> Greetings:
>
> My name is Trish. I have been dating a guy with MPD (DID) for a year
> and a half now and we have become engaged. He told me right up front
> that he had the disorder, so I 'knew' what I was getting into - or so
> I thought. I find that at times I don't have a clue - truly I don't -
> about what I'm dealing with and I get a bit baffled about what I see.
> I am deeply, deeply in love with him (them) and was relieved when I
> found this group yesterday. I will take my time and read each post -
> believe me - and everything else available in this group so that I can
> know how best to live and love in this relationship.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Trish
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Trish,



I found out my wife had DID 8 years in to our marriage.

It is not easy. I first I thought it was under control..

I was wrong.



Anthony



From: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of rblegs
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:38 AM
To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MPD Spouses] New Here - Engaged to a Multiple



Greetings:

My name is Trish. I have been dating a guy with MPD (DID) for a year
and a half now and we have become engaged. He told me right up front
that he had the disorder, so I 'knew' what I was getting into - or so
I thought. I find that at times I don't have a clue - truly I don't -
about what I'm dealing with and I get a bit baffled about what I see.
I am deeply, deeply in love with him (them) and was relieved when I
found this group yesterday. I will take my time and read each post -
believe me - and everything else available in this group so that I can
know how best to live and love in this relationship.

Thanks,

Trish





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mark,

I found the book on Amazon.com from 8 USD please postage and it was
for a new book just thought that you might like to know

Mark

--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, magimark <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Trish,
> Thanks so much for joining.  Since my wife had passed away, I have not
> done much with the group and you will probably find some spam on the
> messages.  I apologize for that.  I am trying to get back with this
> group so I can help people cope with this.
> I can tell you that it is going to be a difficult battle for you.
> Sometimes (t)he(y) will say things that will hurt you but you can't
> take it personally.  The best thing he can do is journal and work with
> clay.  Journaling is the best thing and with the clay, they can shape
> their abusers and then destroy the clay figure.  I don't know what the
> situation was that caused this for him, but one of the best books I
> have ever read is called "More Than One" by Dr. Terri Clark.  It is
> out of print but you might find it in the libraty or online.
> I will be periodically checking the messages, so if you need any
> advice, I will do whatever I can to help you.
> Hang in there,
> Mark
>

Hi Trish,
Thanks so much for joining.  Since my wife had passed away, I have not
done much with the group and you will probably find some spam on the
messages.  I apologize for that.  I am trying to get back with this
group so I can help people cope with this.
I can tell you that it is going to be a difficult battle for you.
Sometimes (t)he(y) will say things that will hurt you but you can't
take it personally.  The best thing he can do is journal and work with
clay.  Journaling is the best thing and with the clay, they can shape
their abusers and then destroy the clay figure.  I don't know what the
situation was that caused this for him, but one of the best books I
have ever read is called "More Than One" by Dr. Terri Clark.  It is
out of print but you might find it in the libraty or online.
I will be periodically checking the messages, so if you need any
advice, I will do whatever I can to help you.
Hang in there,
Mark

Greetings:

My name is Trish. I have been dating a guy with MPD (DID) for a year
and a half now and we have become engaged. He told me right up front
that he had the disorder, so I 'knew' what I was getting into - or so
I thought. I find that at times I don't have a clue - truly I don't -
about what I'm dealing with and I get a bit baffled about what I see.
I am deeply, deeply in love with him (them) and was relieved when I
found this group yesterday. I will take my time and read each post -
believe me - and everything else available in this group so that I can
know how best to live and love in this relationship.

Thanks,

Trish