I got an email from my husband this morning telling me he's been
talking to somebody (lawyer?) about divorce paperwork...  We've been
separated for a year and a half now -- he left, much to my dismay --
but I've maintained this hope that it wouldn't really come to
this...

Sometimes, he tells me to "hang in there," and the alters tell me
that
they can't hope to predict what decisions he'll make in the
future...
They've told me that things can always change, and not to give up
hope...  They have pleaded with me, sometimes even yelled at me, not
to just give up and leave the state...  One, quite menacingly,
informed me that he had not spent as much time and energy as he had
forming his family only to see me give up on it and disappear off to
the opposite coast...

But at the same time, we go for months without speaking.  I send
emails all the time, and I've tried calling a great number of times,
and I seem to get only silence.  He has a girlfriend (who treats him
like slave labor and controls every move he makes, which includes
expecting him not to speak with me), and he has encouraged me to
feel
free to date or "move on."  We have talked about divorce, but I made
it clear that I am still in love with him, and that I would only
sign
papers if it was truly what he wanted.  After a year of not having
mentioned it, I kind of thought maybe things would change
somehow...

This isn't a normal kind of "Dear Abby," problem.  My husband isn't
just "conflicted."  It's not a matter of the two of us not getting
along, because most of the time, we're the best of friends -- no
fights, no arguments, no major disagreements.  While we were living
together, we had a wonderful relationship; the separation shocked
me.
I've tried to explain this to "supportive" people -- friends, even a
therapist, and their resounding answer is that he's insane,
manipulative, and controlling...  But I honestly still think that
most
of these problems are a result of "parts" of him being steadfastly
in
love with me, and other "parts" being entirely resistant to (read:
terrified of) real emotional intimacy.  I promised this man that I
would remain with him, in sickness and in health, and I meant that;
I
truly do love him.  If he had cancer or was a paraplegic, I wouldn't
give up on this marriage...  He's not in therapy, and after a
bazillion diagnoses that didn't fit, medication that didn't work,
and
rather insulting (and inaccurate) psychological evaluations of his
character, it would be difficult if not impossible to persuade him
to
go back to therapy...

I know I'm supposed to take care of myself first, make sure that *I*
maintain what sanity I've got, but I don't know how I can possibly
just give up hope on this marriage working out somehow...  In the
short time it was a real marriage, it was the best thing that ever
happened to me...  I want to make this work somehow...  It's not
especially helpful to hear other people (who are all too used
to "singletons") tell me that he never loved me to begin with, he
married me for all the wrong reasons, and that I'm deluding myself
that he ever really cared at all...  It doesn't help, of course,
that
nobody else has caught on that the sixty freaking nicknames he uses
aren't just "nicknames," -- nobody believes me in the slightest that
the man who married me is the "imaginary friend" (as I try to joke)
of
a very confused, very damaged, but very wonderful man...  And of
course, he's entirely unwilling to tell anybody the truth, so it
often
makes me look like the delusional one in the relationship...  It
looks
like he simply left me for another woman.  If it were as simple as
that, I could have grieved for what I thought had been, and begun to
move on.  As it is, I have strong suspicions that a part of him (or
several) want nothing more than to remain with me...  I can't bear
to
just walk away from that...  Still, talk of divorce is pretty
straightforward...  It's just that I still don't believe that
they're
all in agreement on this one, just as they were not all in agreement
when he/they married me...

In a strange twist (a <i>very</i> strange twist), I met another
multiple and we became good friends and room-mates for a little
while...  He was in therapy as a young man in foster care, and had
several therapists see him because none of them could figure out
the "other part" of him that emerged during hypnotherapy, and no one
could make sense of his pathological inconsistency and his
reported "voices" and his sensation of being controlled by another
part of his mind...  (The therapists told him all this, but stopped
short of diagnosing him officially, because they "didn't believe" in
MPD...)  This friend of mine is a remarkably talented psychic.  I'm
more skeptical about these things than most people, but he's
predicted
some astonishingly accurate things, even rudely announcing people's
deepest (and entirely nonsensical) secret phobias...  I've read
about
multiples being pretty good with things like that in some cases, and
I've often "happened" to run into my husband in strange places, and
then had him insist that he'd "called" me with his mind...  In any
case, this friend of mine insisted one evening that he wanted to
move
out of our apartment because "your husband is going to come back to
you, and I don't want to get in the way of that."  In nearly every
other instance where he made predictions like that (especially those
spontaneous ones), he's been dead on...  A huge part of me would
like
to believe that he's right, but another part of me knows that this
hoping, month after months, is hurting me terribly...

I don't know if I'm so much looking for advice, although it would be
welcomed if you have any...  I think I'd just like a friend who
believes me...

I've got to go back to work...  Just needed to get some thoughts
out...

By the way, is there any way to stop the rampant spammers from
attacking this forum?

I did seek therapy -- or at least an ear to listen -- several
times...  My first interaction with a therapist was disasterous...
It was a "group" for people with mentally ill family members.  There
are no MPD support groups or MPD family support groups in my area,
or anywhere that I know of.  So I tried this.  Nobody else showed up
for the "group," and the therapist spent the entire time telling me
that my husband was transsexual, bipolar, and had attention deficit
disorder.  And that he was lying about hearing voices, because if he
really heard voices, he was schizophrenic, too.  I told her that
anti-psychotic meds hadn't worked at all, and that was when she
decided he'd just made it up.  She also told me, repeatedly, that
there was no such thing as multiple personalities.  Mind you, this
lady had never met my husband, and she was affiliated with a
hospital that originally put my husband on Risperdal and my mom
on "some kind of tranquilizer."  It's kind of a backwards place,
here...

The second therapist I saw cut me off when I said, "MPD."  She
<i>asked</i> if there was "mental illness" in my family!  I mean, I
TOLD her!  Hello!  After that, she questioned absolutely everything
I said.  She didn't believe a word I said to her at all.  She
actually told me she didn't think I had minored in philosophy in
college as an undergrad!  She had her PhD in philosophy, she told
me, so she should know.  She also had a number of religious symbols
ALL over her office, and while I'm pretty comfortable with anybody
of any faith, I don't want HER faith to dominate MY session, which
it was.  She was very pushy, and kept asking me leading questions.
I am pretty sure she diagnosed me "borderline," but she really
didn't ask me any of the right questions, and she didn't listen to a
word I said.  She also told me, straight off that bat, that my
husband didn't have anything wrong with him, that he had left me for
another woman, because men do those sorts of things.  Seriously!!!

I don't have the money, the insurance, or the sanity to try looking
again for awhile.  These two women made me feel a thousand times
worse about my life than I had felt going in...  Eventually, maybe
I'll try again...  Maybe...

Oh, yes, and I was also told that there was nothing that could be
done for my "depression," because therapy wouldn't work, and they
couldn't give medication to a "single mother" of a young child
without being assured that somebody else would take care of the baby
if/when I freaked out on anti-depressants.  (Funny how nobody seems
to think there's a <i>reason</i> for depression when one finds out
that one's husband is fighting for his life and his sanity twenty-
four hours a day, and that there's little to nothing I can do about
it, and that he left me alone with a young baby...)

It's a little bit difficult for me to trust therapists of any kind
at this point...

*sigh*

Maybe I'll get my MSW and be one of the "good ones."

*smile*

Love and peace,
~Carolyn*



--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, JNSWTHRT@... wrote:
>
> Hi Carolyn;
>
> Thanks for your writing and sharing.  It takes courage to do so,
we know.
>
> I/we are the 'resident multiple' here it seems, at least by
default if
> nothing else.  It is always helpful to hear 'the other side' of
the equation and
> hopefully vice versa.
>
> Question here;  Have you had some 'good' treatment/therapy -
whatever process
> carries the most health - in resolving your own trauma issues from
your
> childhood?  And - do you have the same 'good' treatment/therapy in
place regarding
> raising your child in the healthiest way possible given the
circumstances?
>
> Jen et al.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Actually, it never would have been this way between my husband and
I -- never -- if I hadn't been blessed (really) to have had the
experience of growing up with two multiples in my house.  It still
took me years and years to figure out what, exactly, was going on
(and I still am only clued into a little bit...).  This is a little
bit of what happened...

My husband, from the age of 19, when I met him (I was 17), was a
little bit...  "quirky."  Let's put it this way: on the day I first
met him, he was wearing a dress.  In a public coffeehouse in the
middle of the afternoon.  He was tall and very thin, and wearing a
long black velvet dress.  I thought it was kind of odd, but there
was quite a crew of "goth" kids that spent their afternoons there
after the high school let out, and I thought it was an odd fashion
statement.  I like unusual people, and frankly, I thought he looked
fantastic in the dress.

He had some wild, fantastic stories to tell: things about vampires,
and a mysterious world of elves and demons and so forth.  He spoke
about it all as if it were real, and acquired something of a
following among the impressionable "goth" teenagers, male and
female.  I thought, for the longest time, that he was just trying to
gain some attention, but the odd part of it was, I was almost never
able to disprove anything he said.  One of the strangest parts of
his "mythology" (as it were), was his insistence that, because of
his "vampire" nature, the spirits of other beings were able to
inhabit his mind and body.  He heard their voices, and sometimes
they kind of took over.  I still thought he was making most of it
up; MPD was kind of "cool" at that point, after all.  He never
referred to himself as a multiple (and still won't); he spoke of
himself as a kind of residence for these other beings -- some human,
some closer to fantasy-novel creatures...  I chose to ignore what he
told me, and the others in his little crew.  I listened to all of
it, and I wrote a lot of it down, simply because it made a good
story.  But I also knew that he had plenty to gain from
feigning "crazy," or for telling these fantastic vampire tales.  The
girls went wild for it...  *smile*

He moved away -- just disappeared into the night -- on Valentine's
Day of 1998.  I didn't hear from him for a long time, and I didn't
see him again until October 2001.  When I saw him then, everything
had changed.  Instead of being this charming, mysterious, quasi-
intimidating teenager, he was quieter, and there was something about
his demeanor that was more sad, more submissive.  I had NEVER seen
him submissive before, never.  It wasn't his style.  But it fit him
quite naturally.  He was wearing baggy jeans and a t'shirt, a far
cry from the velvet dresses and so forth.

(Incidentally, I once had a therapist tell me that she didn't
believe in MPD/DID, but that she might reconsider her stance if she
went to a patient's house and saw a number of different styles of
clothing in the closets, representing the different alters...  I
promptly invited her to my house...  She declined, and told me that
my husband wasn't a multiple -- because there was no such thing --
but a transvestite or transsexual...)

Anyway...  That wasn't the only thing that had changed.  His eyes
were a different color.  I mean, I remembered the brightest, bluest
eyes you can imagine.  And now his eyes were greenish-grey.  I
chalked it up to the passage of time and my own faulty memory,
though.  I finally got up the nerve to ask him about all the weird
stuff he'd always been crowing about: the vampires, and the ghosts,
and the energy transfers, and what-not.  His eyes glowed blue for
just a moment, and he gave me a huge grin, and he said, "I never
said I wasn't crazy.  But I have fun with it!"  And then he left,
and I didn't see him again until 2004.

When we finally began dating (I'd been in love with him since that
very first day), in 2004, he was completely different again.  He was
quiet all the time, with just this shy smile about him.  He was
agoraphobic and almost never left his apartment.  He couldn't make
up his mind about anything, not even what to have for breakfast in
the morning.  His eyes were permanently green.  He wrote me these
sweet little notes on grocery lists and things in this odd "secret
language" he somehow knew from a past life; he taught me a few
words.  He also seemed younger, more playful sometimes, but scared
of his own shadow.  He couldn't get on a bus, or go to the grocery
store, or anything, unless someone insisted, and went with him.  His
whole life was guilt, fear... and hope.  But he was nothing like his
gothy-vampire counterpart.  I loved both of them, but I questioned
him about it frequently.  He chalked it up to growing up, moving to
the west coast, having a couple of crappy relationships...  Things
had just changed.  But during that time, despite his terror of
absolutely everything, and his near-paralysis because of it, we were
happy.  We really loved each other.  I could see it so clearly in
his eyes.  Neither of us had ever loved anybody the way we loved
each other.  We got married, the day after Valentine's Day, 2005.

A few months later, we moved back to the east coast, and something
changed again...  He started talking about leaving, and he started
accusing me of being too controlling.  (Whoa...  not even close...)
He told me he didn't love me, that he felt like he barely knew me,
and that he never really had loved me.  He spent house alone in the
garage, just messing around with his computer, taking it apart,
changing the screensavers, etc.  We didn't even have internet, so he
wasn't doing anything especially significant...  He never went
anywhere because he was "bored," or it was too "hot."  But he didn't
seem nervous about going places anymore, just antagonistic when it
came to having anything to do with me...  It was so drastically out
of character that I started disliking this person I'd been ecstatic
to call my husband only a few weeks earlier.  He was <i>mean</i>.
Really mean.

Finally, in desperation, and entirely heartbroken, I asked my mom
about it.  I asked her, "how do you know if somebody is a
multiple?"  She just closed her eyes and didn't say anything for a
minute, and then asked me, "why do <i>you</i> think he is?"  I told
her about his dozen or so nicknames, his drastic changes, the
headaches, the clothes, the voices in his head.  She didn't really
say much.  Just, "oh, Carolyn, I'm so sorry.  Well...  they say you
marry people like your parents..."

He had begun to talk about leaving me, and in desperation, I finally
got up the guts to do what I should have done a lot earlier...  I
said:  "Listen...  Before you make any decision about leaving, or
staying, or doing anything, there's somebody I want to talk to...
Is that acceptable?"  He said, "who?  Your friend Jason?"

"Nope," I said.  "I don't know her name."

He looked puzzled.  Of course.

"I want to talk to the one who used to wear the green skirt.  Back
in 1997?  The one I met who only spoke in whispers and wore the
green skirt.  She was my friend, and I want to talk to her."

Well, I had no idea what kind of a reaction I'd get by just
<i>asking</i>.  I really had no idea.  He might have laughed at me
and told me it was all some big, elaborate role-playing game.  Or he
might have feigned ignorance.  But he just opened his eyes a little
bit wider, and said, "Her name is 'W.'"  And then he sat back,
slumped over a little bit, and seemed almost to lose consciousness
for a minute.  And then he sat back up and whispered, "hi..."

Over the next couple of days, they began introducing themselves to
me without me having to ask.  Sometimes I did ask: "who is the one
that yelled at me that one day for no reason?"  Or, "who is the one
that has the blue eyes?"  (He had no idea; I had to describe
behavior.)  But, for the most part, they'd just pop right out.  We'd
be sitting in silence, and I'd hear, in a different
voice, "hello..."  They'd beat around the bush about their names
sometimes, but I recognized almost all of them.  He'd hidden them SO
well, but so openly, so plainly.  He hid them all right in plain
sight, and then chalked them all up to his eccentric nature.  But
once the secret was out -- that they weren't just fleeting figments
of his imagination, that they weren't just stories from a vivid,
kind of loopy imagination, that they weren't just methods
of "getting the girls," etc. -- I got up the guts to ask him a LOT
of things.

The one thing I told him -- my mom advised against it, but I did it
anyway, and I think I was right -- that was so very important was
this:  "Listen...  I know that these people don't exist in the same
way I exist, that they're not the same kind of flesh-and-blood
beings I am...  And the stories you've always told me about these
places with elves and everything...  I know they're not on a map
anywhere...  But I want you to know that I understand that they are
real in some way, and I respect that they are real to you.  In many
ways, they are also real to me...  The boy I married isn't the
person who is standing in front of me now, but I know that he is
real, because I am in love with him.  By extension, I love all of
you.  But please trust me that I believe you when you all speak to
me."

My mom advised against this because she said it helps to validate
the more delusional aspects of DID.  As an integrated multiple, and
as a licensed social worker, she would know, I guess.  But I thought
it was more important for him to gain my trust, to know that I
wasn't mocking him, and that I really did believe that, somehow, it
IS real...  And I still think that was the right choice.  She did
advise me to just ask to speak to one of the others, even if I
didn't know his/her name.  Generally, it's easy to "call out" one of
the others, at least in my husband's case.  If I say, "hey, can I
talk to D. for a minute?" I always get to talk to D.  Or if I
ask, "can all of you listen up for a minute?" I get (most)
everybody's attention.  I can also ask for privacy ("can this be
between you and me for a minute"), although I don't really think
that's a very good idea in the long run.

Anyway...  Have you ever just asked?  It might work, and it might
not, and it's scary -- probably for everybody involved.  But it
might work out in a really, really good way.

*good wishes*
~Carolyn*

Hi Carolyn;

Thanks for your writing and sharing.  It takes courage to do so, we know.

I/we are the 'resident multiple' here it seems, at least by default if
nothing else.  It is always helpful to hear 'the other side' of the equation and
hopefully vice versa.

Question here;  Have you had some 'good' treatment/therapy - whatever process
carries the most health - in resolving your own trauma issues from your
childhood?  And - do you have the same 'good' treatment/therapy in place
regarding
raising your child in the healthiest way possible given the circumstances?

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As I read these posts, I can't help feeling a bit envious of
the openess you all seem to experience within your SO's system.
I have been with my SO for 24 years, and I have not even been
able to know any names or specifics regarding his interior world.
It would sure be nice to be "let-in" enough to at least know names of
OM's when you recognize they are out. I am totally shut-out when it
comes to any revealation of this sort. It's very painful to feel so
shut-out when I love him so very much.

What did any of you do to get to that point? I'd love any feedback that
any of you have regarding this.

Take Care,
Gail

Thank you, Gail and Jen et al. for replying...

In the past year and a half or so, I have been doing a lot of
reading in academic journals and so forth.  Intellectualizing
MPD/DID makes things easier sometimes; it's easier to keep these
things confined to my brain rather than allow them into my heart.
(Plus, I work for a publishing company and often get sneak peaks at
one of the major -- read: only -- journals about dissociative
disorders, etc.)  It's a strain sometimes to pick through statistics
and all of that, but I'm a college graduate and I've been fluent in
psych. jargon since I was a pre-teen, so it's just enough of a
challenge to keep me awake.  It helps, really.

Anyway...

I've also been thinking...  I don't know exactly how to deal with
the issue of talking to my daughter about any of this...  Right now,
it's not such a big deal, because she's only just turned two
(although she's much brighter and more aware than most two-year-
olds), and because her dad isn't living with us.  Still, having
grown up with a multiple mother, I know firsthand how damaging it
can be to view the behaviors of several different alters without
being aware that they <i>are</i> different people...  My mom had at
least one alter who hated me and was extremely verbally abusive;
sometimes I was rewarded and hugged for painting a picture, and
other times, I was screamed at for using too much blue paint or
something.  For example.  I honestly didn't know my mom was
multiple, and I thought he inconsistencies must be my fault
somehow.  If it wasn't my behavior that was causing her mood
changes, it must just be <i>me</i>; I must just be <i>bad</i>
somehow.  I do <i>NOT</i> want my daughter to grow up like that.
Her dad, my husband, N., always treated her with great care and
love.  I think he is a little younger than the "body" (presently
29), and sometimes he seems a little hesitant and frightened around
her, like a young father would, but he's always been amazing with
her.  The female alters I know have also been wonderful and motherly
to the baby.  There are a few others, though, who are distant and
serious and sarcastic and quite a bit less affectionate.  None of
the alters has been violent with either of us, ever.  I also think
there's a pact among the alters that they're not allowed -- any of
them -- to deliberately hurt us.  There is one alter, a twitchy,
spastic, almost robotic boy with foul language and a love for
computers, who is less than delicate with the baby.  He's never hurt
her, but he kind of treats her like an old hard drive, like
something without feeling.  He's a good kid, about nineteen years
old, and I don't have a problem tolerating his (very noticeable)
quirks, but he doesn't have the same capacity for empathy that the
others do.  He thinks of himself and of most of the world as robots
or machines.  Even some of the other alters refer to him
as "insane," and "psychotic," or just roll their eyes at the mention
of his name.  Naturally, I'm a little hesitant about the baby
getting too attached to somebody who can't seem to comprehend that
she's human.  He wouldn't hurt her; I'm quite sure of that, but he's
just...  <i>indelicate</i>.

Still, even at a year old, she could tell the difference between
her "daddies."  I remember, even as a very, very young child (3?
4?), I used to differentiate between "good mama" and "bad mama" in
my head; the more noticeable alters were easy to distinguish,
although I attributed them to something defective about myself...
Even as an infant, she ignored the less affectionate "daddies," and
would crawl up and cuddle with the women and the more nurturing
men.  (By the way, I don't know any of the kids, if there are
any...  I'm assuming there are, but I don't know how to ask...  The
youngest I know of are in their mid/late teens).  So, she knows the
difference...  I just don't want her to grow up thinking that
the "mood swings" are related to her, or to believe they're her
fault.  I never had any other explanation.  But I think I am able to
give my daughter one.

I have told her that she is very, very lucky, because most people
just have one mama, and one daddy.  Some people have more than one
of the above, or are missing one or the other.  But she is
especially lucky, because she has one mama, and sixty daddies!  That
makes her laugh.  I told her that all her daddies look like one
daddy, and they all love her, but they're all different.  Daddy N.
helped her get born, and he throws her in the air and tickles her
and calls her "Munchkin."  And Daddy M. is a lady, even if she looks
like a man, and so she's kind of like a mama and a daddy.  And Daddy
Q. never smiles, and he looks mean, but on the inside, he's so
silly!  And Daddy C. wiggles a lot and puts together computer
machines and says naughty words.  For as much information as that
is, I really do think my daughter understands most of it.  She
doesn't understand "sixty," but she knows the difference,
abstractly, between "one" and "lots."

I don't know what else I should be telling her, if anything, at this
point, or later...  If and when my husband comes back to live with
us, or if he ends up having more involvement in our lives, I want
her to understand that Daddy is different, and he's not always going
to make sense to her.  So, it's a matter of keeping <i>her</i> safe,
emotionally, and trying to be respectful of him without making him
seem completely crazy (which I don't think he is, although plenty of
others would disagree).

I'm kind of just rambling at this point; I'm sorry for the long
posts, but it's nice to feel like this is a community of people
who "get it."

Love and peace,
~Carolyn*

Hi Carolyn,

I am new to this group and this is my 1st post.  I just want you to
know that I can totally relate.  I have been in a relationship for
24 years with my husband, married after 9 years.  Just prior to the
wedding I started noticing a distance between us and was totally
flabergasted on our wedding night when I was told he was "too tired
to
make love with me."

After an agonizing 15 years of trying to figure out what was wrong
with me, I slowly and painfully uuncovered the truth of his SRA.  I
now believe the one(s) that married me, do truly love me, it's way
deeper
alters that don't and think they are married to Satan.

To this day, he is in total denial.  Needless to say, I am  greatly
disturbed by this.  I have tried every thing in the world I can think
of to try and at least have some type of discussion regarding these
discoveries.  He simply says, "You'll never forgive me, it was just
something I was going thru."

I have stayed with him this long because I still love him deeply and
can't turn that off.  The real problem I am experiencing is the total
lack of any type of sexual intimacy.

Something I do try to keep in mind when I feel like screaming and
yelling at him for all the pain and heartache this has brought to my
life is "Be Kind; for everyone you meet is fighting a very difficult
battle."

I also feel the need to be able to discuss this "secret" that has/is
tearing my mind and heart apart.

Take care,
Gail

Hello Carolyn and welcome;

Thank you for sharing some of your story.  Keep writing as it helps to do so.

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This would be a lot easier if it could be an in-person thing...  I
would very much like to be connected with people who also have
experience living with a loved one with DID...  I haven't found
anybody yet who is willing to take me seriously, including a "family
members of mentally ill persons" group at a local hospital...

Anyway, I'm Carolyn.  My mom was diagnosed with MPD in the early 90s
when I was about 12 or 13.  During one of her inpatient stays at a
psych. hospital, she made a good friend, A., who came to live with
us after she was discharged.  A. was also diagnosed, around the same
time, with MPD.  I spent 13 or 14 years of my life thinking that it
was perfectly normal for a person to go from giddy and smiling to
dark and heartless in the blink of an eye.  My mom did it all the
time.  A.'s "mood swings" weren't much different, although
considerably less angry and combative.  I never saw anything
particularly unusual about this.

In 1997, I met the man who would become my husband, "Legion."  He
was beautiful, and fascinating, and told a great story, and had a
vivid imagination.  I loved him from across the room, and it only
became stronger as I got to know him.  For years, I ignored all the
signs I saw -- partly because they were, as I said, kind of normal
to me, and partly because I didn't want to believe it.  But really,
somebody with sixty different "nicknames" and a horrendous memory,
who believes he's possessed by various entities who regularly take
over control of his body, whose eyes change color with his moods,
who is sometimes too frightened of nameless terrors to leave his
house, and sometimes so vibrant and sarcastic that he reduces crowds
to hysterical laughter...  He's been in therapy before, diagnosed
with about a dozen different things, none of which respond to
traditional treatments (e.g., Risperdal and Zyprexa
for "schizophrenia," and "bipolar disorder).  Nobody has once
thought of diagnosing him with DID.  That is, except my mom, who,
after many years of therapy, is now a singleton (by her own choice),
and a practicing social worker.  Of course, she cannot legally or
ethically diagnose or treat him, but she has met him and agrees
whole-heartedly with my assessment: I grew up with two multiples,
and then I went and married one.

My husband left me about a year and a half ago, after just six
months of marriage.  It seems that the "owner" of the body wasn't
the one who signed the marriage certificate, but that one of the
alters, deeply in love with me, disobeyed orders about not getting
into any trouble -- or major commitments -- while the "owner"
was "sleeping."  The "owner," angry and unwilling to negotiate, or
even to get to know me, left me and stated that he felt it would be
unwise for me and the alter who married me ("N.") to communicate any
longer.  I sometimes speak to the Others on the phone, and sometimes
I can tell the difference by their tones and inflections (it's
easier to tell in person), but I am rarely permitted to have any
sort of interaction, no matter how brief, with N., my husband.

I am heartbroken, of course, for so many reasons.  Obviously, it
hurts that my husband had left me, as it would in any separation.
It hurts to feel so alone in my knowledge that I have sixty
different relationships with sixty different people in one body, and
that, in some odd way, I've married a "ghost," someone who
doesn't "really" exist (although I'll argue against that all day
long...).  It hurts because I saw my mother go through her own
suffering, years of it, in and out of mental wards, going through
flashbacks and lost time and various sorts of breakdowns -- and I'm
terrified for my husband.  I know he's made at least two serious
suicide attempts, and that's not counting his weird penchant for
moderately dangerous activities...

I have tried to talk to some of Legion's "Others" about the
situation.  I've told him that I think he/they are a multiple...
He/they totally deny that possibility, ostensibly because they each
have their own separate memories...  (Well, DUH...)  Personally, I
think he/they do kind of know, and would rather hold off on
admitting it and dealing with the consequences.  I think eventually
he'll come to some kind of turning point, probably in the form of
some kind of serious breakdown, and end up in a hospital.  And, may
the higher powers will it, I hope somebody will see what's going on
and help him...  And I hope he won't run away.

(It should be noted that my mom's MPD/DID was caused by severe
childhood abuse.  My husband rarely talks about his childhood.  I've
met his mother and stepfather, and they're kind of unusual, but
friendly and loving to him, to me, and to our daughter.  But again,
he remembers little to nothing about his childhood and never talks
about much of anything before the age of sixteen...)

It helps to tell you this, even though I have no idea who any of you
are...  I'm so tired of keeping secrets lest my loved ones be judged
badly...  If anybody wants to be a penpal/cyber-penpal/whatever,
please, please don't hesitate to contact me...

Thank you for listening......

Love and peace,
~Carolyn*

In a message dated 11/27/2006 7:41:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
brettstoner@... writes:

> But I think I am making progress and doing well.
> Trust is so hard to develop and she is trying. God bless her.
>

Welcome to the group, Brett.  Glad you're here.  Thank you for opening up and
sharing some of your story.

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello my name is Brett and my girlfriend has DID.

When I was a child I was abused. My mother was an alcoholic and her
lover had 26 personalities. Growing up I never understood what was
happening till I was a teenager. Life was rough back then and I went
through the highs and lows of life. I never knew if she was the angry
child, mean latino, abusive male, or pretty little girl. I was living
with 26 different people in one household. It took me years to
recover but I am a happy sucessful person now with a good career.

Fast forward to today and I am now dating a beautiful girl who also
has DID. At first I noticed the unusal behavior patterns. The
switching, different alters, thats when I remembered my past and
noticed it with her. She would tell me she has blackouts and forgets.
She was always late for work.

So here are the details.

She was abused when she was a child. Raped by her dad and older
brothers. Raped by her first boyfriend. Abused by her dad and mom.
She has suffered such tremendous abuse that my abuse pales in
comparision. I have been with her for about 5 months now and I have
determined she has 2 alters. Here primary alter is a happy, loving
girl that I met and fuctions in society. She has the highs and lows,
self mutilation, depression, but she is good. Her alter is when she
was 14 years old.

Talking with primary the best we could come up with is that her alter
is stuck in the time frame about when she was raped by her first
boyfriend. I noticed her triggers are when we have sex and I am on
top. This is the same position as when she was raped. The primary
tells me when we have intercourse and in that position she will see
me then flash back and forth with her rapist and me. She stated she
will then blackout. And then I notice her 14 year old alter comes
out. I have noticed recently too that her 14 year old alter will
frequently come out in the mornings especially after a rough night of
nightmares.

I have been focused on talking with her alter and gaining her trust.
At first she wold not even talk to me. Now we will talk about her dog
and things that make her happy. She will let me touch her and place
my head on her shoulder. I dont know if she remembers me from day to
day or if its like ground hogs day movie and she is starting over
every time. Her alter loves self mutilation. Her primary is strong
enough to control herself but as soon as she switches to her 14 year
old alter she likes to cut. I can distract her but it is temporary.
She loves to cut and tries to use anything she can get her hands on.
Even her own teeth or fingernails. I asked her why and she said it
feels good to bleed and release it. I am not sure what else I should
be doing with her alter. Do I ask about the painful memories? Do I
just continue with the small chit chat and try to earn her trust. Do
I ask about her family? What should I say or do?

I tell her primary what happens with her alter. They are both
separate and don't communicate with each other. Her primary is taking
it very well that she has DID. She is healing. I can see a change in
her eyes. I am building her trust and I hope to one day gain her full
trust in men and for her to be able to love me as I love her.

I just wish she had insurance and could see a doctor. She is very
mistrusting and while she will share everything with me she is afraid
of doctors. She does not trust them to share her feelings with them.
I don't know what to do. Do I continue the work of BF and therapist.
I enjoy talking and listening with her and I think it is very
comforting to her. I suggested she start a diary but I am not sure if
she is writing in it daily. It is her personal diary and she does not
share it with me unless I ask. And even then she does not want to so
I don't pry.


I have had many experiences for MPD and being with a new person with
MPD can be trying. But I think I am making progress and doing well.
Trust is so hard to develop and she is trying. God bless her.
Brett

Hi, My husband has DID.  Looking for support.  Unfortunately he had a
five year affair with a coworker that appears to be a reenactment of
his childhood abuse but he still does not recall anything to do with
that relationship,  i.e. where they went etc. etc.  I have found out
most things via charges on the credit cards...Since then a severe
history of abuse has come out from his childhood...by the way I have
been married for 29 years and had no clue about the abuse....or the
affair...anyway he has been in therapy for 2.5 years and seems to be
working through the abuse but no recollection of the affair...

In a message dated 11/25/2006 8:37:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
onearmedman223@... writes:

> My girl is only now
> accepting her Dx and learning to map her system

Hi Rick;

I guess we're the unofficial resident multiple system here, at least at this
point.  Odd designation, but there it is, I suppose.

The above is good work, in my opinion.  The denial, suppression and oft times
repression that accompanies multiplicity - and the incredibly difficult road
toward acceptance is a big obstacle; especially system-wide.  It certainly was
here.  Hope things continue to progress in a positive direction.

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, "jonbelew" <jonbelew@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone I am married to a lovely woman with mutiples . I
really
> need help here I am at a lost , some of the personalities do not like
> me very much and some not at all . I have a new one living with me
> that I have not met in the last 6 years we have been together . This
> is the first one that didnt have shared memory of the children (that
> she has from a previous marriage)me or her parents at all,BTW her
> parents are still living. I do know how to handle this . I feel as if
> I am losing my sanity at times. I have no one to speak to about this.
> I love her very much, but i feel like maybe this personality is here
> to leave .
>            Help me please
>                Jon
>
I hear you Jon, it's a tough road at times. My girl is only now
accepting her Dx and learning to map her system. She has no
therapist,just books I've bought her and articles I've printed from
websites. I do know what it's like not to have anyone to talk to. there
are no local groups I've found, and family is not an option since I'm
the only one she has disclosed to. Sounds like you need a therapist for
both of you. I wish I had more help to offer, but it does sound like we
are in similar circumstances. All I can say is that I know her and I
truly love each other because we just don't give up,we survive...

Rick
Norman,OK

Hi Jon -

Welcome to the group.  I'm very sorry for what you're going through; I'm glad
you're talking here and hope that you continue to do so, if it helps.  Is
"your wife", consistant of the multiple system that you live with, or just one
of
the people within?  If the latter, are you still in communication with the
one that is your wife and/or anyone else within that you know and have
interaction with?  Curious.

I'm sorry that you feel like you're losing your sanity at times; we can
relate to that here.  It must be a challenge being an intimate to a multiple
system, to be sure.  Takes a special person with special qualities.

Not a lot of comfort, I'm sure, but at least know that you do have a place
where you can at least speak and be listened to here.

Keep writing as it helps you to do so -

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello everyone I am married to a lovely woman with mutiples . I really
need help here I am at a lost , some of the personalities do not like
me very much and some not at all . I have a new one living with me
that I have not met in the last 6 years we have been together . This
is the first one that didnt have shared memory of the children (that
she has from a previous marriage)me or her parents at all,BTW her
parents are still living. I do know how to handle this . I feel as if
I am losing my sanity at times. I have no one to speak to about this.
I love her very much, but i feel like maybe this personality is here
to leave .
            Help me please
                Jon

In a message dated 10/19/2006 8:44:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
raymond.barber@... writes:

> I'm married to a wonderful woman with multiples. I hope this
> group can help me too understand alittle more about multiples.
> This sound like a good group.
>

Hello Ray and welcome;

Nice to hear positive things said about us multiples ... I'm sure we can all
learn and understand from each other.  Look forward to hearing more from you.

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi group,
        I'm married to a wonderful woman with multiples. I hope this
group can help me too understand alittle more about multiples.
This sound like a good group.
                                Thanks Ray

In a message dated 10/18/2006 2:45:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
burkettfamily5@... writes:

> My name is Eddie, and my wife of 7 years has not been diagnosed with DID
> yet, but they are leaning towards this

Hi Eddie;

Welcome to the group.  Look forward to hearing more from you.  Glad you're
here.

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi group - My name is Eddie, and my wife of 7 years has not been diagnosed with
DID yet, but they are leaning towards this. I hope to get some ideas on how to
handle living with this from this group.  Thanks..

Eddie


-----Original Message-----
From: JNSWTHRT@...
To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [MPD Spouses] New member


In a message dated 10/11/2006 9:17:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
onearmedman223@... writes:

> Hi all, I'm husband and support person to my multiple wife. I just
> stumbled across the group via google...
>
> Rick
>

Welcome Rick. I am a member of a multiple system (Dragon) and we're glad
you're here. Look forward to hearing more from you.

Jen (et al.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi group - My name is Eddie, and my wife of 7 years has not been diagnosed with
DID yet, but they are leaning towards this. I hope to get some ideas on how to
handle living with this from this group.  Thanks..

Eddie


-----Original Message-----
From: JNSWTHRT@...
To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [MPD Spouses] New member


In a message dated 10/11/2006 9:17:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
onearmedman223@... writes:

> Hi all, I'm husband and support person to my multiple wife. I just
> stumbled across the group via google...
>
> Rick
>

Welcome Rick. I am a member of a multiple system (Dragon) and we're glad
you're here. Look forward to hearing more from you.

Jen (et al.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free
AOL Mail and more.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 10/11/2006 9:17:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
onearmedman223@... writes:

> Hi all, I'm husband and support person to my multiple wife. I just
> stumbled across the group via google...
>
> Rick
>

Welcome Rick.  I am a member of a multiple system (Dragon) and we're glad
you're here.  Look forward to hearing more from you.

Jen (et al.)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all, I'm husband and support person to my multiple wife. I just
stumbled across the group via google...

Rick
OKC,OK

Hey guys! Im getting married finally, cant believe this came true (thought it
would never happen).        Thanks to this thing  managed to meet a     
beautiful girl, who also has a bit of    freak in her (just how i like it ;)).
Wish me luck, I wish you all the same!

Hello all,

Over the past couple of days my wife, M has had some abrupt mood changes for no
apparent reason.
Yesterday morning she was pretty much her usual self, given the recent tensions
between us and we were getting along fine.   Then later that day we met for
lunch and it was obvious that she was depressed.   Later when I got home from
work, she was in bed (very unusual unless she's taking a nap) and looking down.
She has her own bedroom now.   She wanted to be left alone and I made myself
busy elsewhere.

Later that evening she went out to visit her older daughter and seemed better.  
When she got back, she was in a good mood and we spent the remainder of an
enjoyable evening watching some DVDs.   She even asked me for a massage, which
she only does when she feels relaxed and one of her friendly alters is up front.
We don't sleep together or have sex these days, so massage is about the only
touch I have with her apart from a hug or light goodbye kiss now and again.

This morning, she wakes me as usual and takes a bath.  I am invited to chat with
her.   I know that this bath will put her morning schedule out of wack, and I
know when that happens she will get irritated.   I also know that when she gets
irritated, the angry alter is likely to surface.  The angry alter seems to hate
me most of the time.  I also know not to say any of this to her.

So the predicable happens and she realizes that she's late and begins to get
upset.   Note: that she doen't work and being late isn't really a problem to
anyone except to her...which lately is a big deal, much more so than in the
past.   I go into another room and get ready for work.   Soon I hear her door
slam and she's angry.   I finish getting ready for work and I say "have a nice
day", I don't attempt to kiss her goodbye as usual knowing that will just make
her more angry and I leave for work.   I get 1/2 a block away and realize that I
haven't taken my diabeties meds and go back into the house.   She's coming out
of her bedroom door and sees me....see backs up like I'm someone she is afraid
of.   She says nothing and closes her door.   I tell her through her door that
I'm just getting my pills and am leaving now...Goodbye.

I understand these mood/alter changes are part of her DID.   She is only 4
sessions into therapy and I know that things will likely get worse before they
get better.  These abrupt changes are hard for me to deal with but I'm beginning
accept them better with time.   I know from experience that attempting to talk
about it right then is a BAD idea.

Questions:
1) When I see her puting herself into a situation that I know will result in her
getting angry or irratated should I do or say anything?    Did I do the right
things this morning?

2) After an episode like this is it wise to send her an email saying "Hi...hope
your feeling better", or "I care" or something?   I'm inclined to just say
nothing, knowing that next time I see her, she will likely be in a better mood.

I should let you all know that my knowledge of DID and her diagnosis is only 3
weeks ago.   I have been with her for almost 5 years.   Up until a month or so
ago, this kind of thing happened only rarely...now it's happening almost daily.

Dave

going to reply within the post to keep track of it
   beth

JNSWTHRT@... wrote:

Hi again Dave and group;

Hope all is well with you and yours.  Hope you're feeling a bit better.

Your post spoke volumes to me; it is interesting to read about the impact
some of the behaviors of multiples in relationship have on the singleton SO.  I,
as the multiple in a blended relationship, have learned SO much just in the
short time that this group has become revitalized just listening to how you all
are affected - both negatively and positively - by your interactions with the
multiples in your lives.  Thanks to you and to all for being so candid and
open.  I guess there is much to be said for spending a bit of time in the others
shoes, so to speak.  I am 'hearing' my SO's position much more clearly from
listening to all here.

   Beth says: and we learn so much from listening to you and other multiples
share too,  it's important i think to have that balance of knowledge,
experiences, and ideas to bounce off each other :)

I hope too, that I have something to offer by way of contributing my
experience of the multiple perspective in an effort to create understanding and
acceptance, and maybe in some way ease some pain, though I know it cannot be
eliminated.  It is hard when two 'people' (one person and one system) try to
connect
on the levels that are hardest even for like minded people, when their minds
work so completely different.  It is hard too, when people who have escaped
their childhoods with scars, to be sure, but have for the most part been able to
move forward - try to connect on those levels that are, again hardest even for
like minded people, with those of us who at the very least share headspace
and body with people who are literally still living in the terror of the
childhood and those like me, who toggle back and forth between the past and the
present by way of living with the challenge of PTSD.

   Beth says:  it's doubly harder i think when you both have troubling issues to
deal with and can "trigger" each other at times :(

     It is hard for those like you
to deal with what I call, 'multiple machinery' - a below awareness,
automatic, built in, set of behaviors, reactions, coping mechanisms, conditioned
instincts/responses etc. that are literally programmed into various
personalities
that co-inhabit your loved ones headspace and body, especially when your loved
one and her/his insiders are not even aware of this 'multiple machinery'.

   Beth says: one of the biggest helping factors for me was to really wrap my
head around the idea of many INDIVDUAL persons in the body and realize that with
each individual the relationships would differ and just accept that just because
A did this doesnt mean my D feels the same way........

Motivations and drives are misinterpreted by the singleton because, of course,
he/she measures only by what source they have - their own experience and are
badly hurt by behaviors of the multiple that the multiple doesn't even
understand,
let alone have the ability to control and sorry to break it to you folks,
often have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SINGLETON THEMSELVES.  This is one thing I see
- and no offense intended here, so hear me out; singletons tend to take things
'too personally' - I know, how can't you?  It LOOKS personal, it FEELS
personal, it's DIRECTED AT ME.

   Beth says: one of the hardest facts to deal with was because Ess (the asshole)
could actually hear and know everything i said to my D,  he, Ess, would
deliberately use my weak points my triggers and pains to hurt me further,  it
was a deliberate attack against me on his part in his attempts to drive me away
from them, to force me to leave.....  putting my foot down with him and setting
boundaries and letting him know i was serious about them and that he was driving
off the best friend they had and the ONE person that did love them as they were
and did not expect them to  "go away and leave me alone" or to disappear or even
integrate, and the ONE person they had in their life that would fight for them,
stand beside them and support them the most,  he did some serious thinking and
he got the message and backed off a great deal.....

   I understand and empathize greatly.  At the same
time, I feel this is one of the keys in a blended relationship for easing the
singletons pain and promoting better interaction - it has less to do with the
person you are, the individual you are - but more to do with the role you are
taking in the multiples life.  The closer you get - the harder we fight.  We can
get to a point where we can't even SEE who YOU are anymore - you are just a
free floating threat, so we fight.  Not on purpose, and we don't even know why -
it's 'multiple machinery.'  Not an excuse for us multiples either - just part
of an explanation of what could be happening - outside the awareness of
either the multiple or the singleton.  Happening TO the couple.  It is the
singletons responsibility to learn about this, change their ways of interacting
accordingly (without compromising themselves in the process, of course)
understand
and support as they can.  It is the multiples responsibility to learn about
this and do all they can do to take charge in all ways possible in order to work
with it.  Heal it; convert it; repair it; manage it.  Like taming the wild
horse - we, as multiples have to learn to take the reins - as the collective
system, with each person doing what they can to better the situation.  It is
incredibly hard work for us - but something we owe both ourselves, our loved
ones
and the world at large.  My opinion - from my experience.

   Beth says:  this sort of explains pretty much what D and I have done (really
more so what the insiders and I have done because we have much better
communications with each other than D and the insiders do)  because i do accept
them as individuals with a "right" to be there it has made progress in dealing
with the "rough" times much easier,  respect and acknowledgement go a long long
way........

I realize I have run on enough here and will close for now.  Thanks to all
who read through to the end on this one!  And thanks for exercising patience and
tolerance to this 'ole multiple who has finally found a place where they can
express themselves without (too much) fear.

Beth says: i'm glad you are expressing yourself,  it is a big chance i know to
lay your feelings/experiences out on the line for "strangers" to read and/or
pick apart.
   thank you for being so open with us
   beth





DB's Cajun Country Treats
   Treats for All occasions from our home to yours.
   http://www.cajuncountrycandies.com/C134478


---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 2/19/2006 11:12:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,
twistedangel64@... writes:

> kids are the top priority for sure

Absolutely, Beth.  Second that one, for sure

Jen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greg,

   i can understand how rough everything seems for you and i understand the
heartbreak,

   it definitely sounds like you need to distances yourself as much as possible
while you come to terms with everything that has happened.....

   have you considered some counseling to help you cope with everything?
   also with you having kids,  if you focus on what is best for them that may
help you in turn focus on what is best for you too in the long run

   kids are the top priority for sure

   good luck
   beth

Gregory Woods <gw6786@...> wrote:
   Hi Jen,
   I work in the same building with Lily.  It drives me crazy cause she won't
talk to me anymore.  She just says we have nothing more to talk about.  She has
gotten involved with someone; I tried to return some things and get some things
back, then she just starts crying and then Diane returns and shuts off her
emotions.  Today, when I saw her, she's just happy as a clam, overtly ignoring
me.  Other times she looks depressed, but to no avail she will not talk to me;
she can't look me in the eyes.  If she does she starts crying.  I have just
tried to reach a common ground of at least friendship, which we always said we
would be, but I get nothing.
   I feel I am living a true twilight zone or it reminds me of a Bufffy the
Vampire Slayer episode, when an alternate reality sets in, but it all wrong.
   I don't know what to do, I left my family for her (not to blame her), she left
hers, and then overnight, it all just turned upside down.  When she cries it is
so intense I can bare to hurt her, but she has no problem just hurting me.  She
says it was all a mistake that "we" (her and I) have to live with it.  She used
to tell me of a battle of wills going on inside her and I think my Lily is
battling in there, or maybe just resigned herself that she can't get control
back.  While understanding this helps, the shere loss, missing her, and this
abandonment of me is so painful.  Of course, I'm the only one close enough to
her to know all this DID stuff.  I covered up her strange behaivor, her
betrayals, so no one would know and now I look like a old boyfriend that just
can't move on.  She really is a manipulator of people, doesn't lie, but doesn't
tell the whole story cause it would make her look crazy or a huge lier.  But you
know she does not lie within each alter.  The alter have
their version of the truth.  I try to move on, but something really nags at me
that she knows it, I know it, that this is so wrong.  But the pain in the mean
time is paralyzing.  When we together, something I would do, she was jealous of
my kids, cause if they needed me, I took action; anyway, she get mad and leave,
go back to her x-husband's house, not be with him, just on the couch.  Well this
happened way too frequently, but we always reconcile, Lily would reemerge and
then all would be great again.  She always convinced me that she could control
herself.  I knew we loved each other.  Well, one time, to make a long story,
short, she went out, met someone else, and essentially shut me out since.  Only
glimpses.  She told me she could turn off her feelings, and she did and she ran.
9 months later I'm still in shock, constantly questioning my own sanity in all
of this.  Asking, how could this have happened.
   Did not mean to go so long here, but I just saw her and I broke down.
   Thanks,
   Greg

JNSWTHRT@... wrote:
   In a message dated 2/15/2006 5:35:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gw6786@... writes:

> The alter that loves me (or used to) has been suppressed or whatever
> happens.  The protector took over her life (the one that had been abused) and
left
> me.

Hi Greg;

I'm so glad you wrote - I know how hard that can be...it certainly is for me,
especially when I'm reaching out and/or speaking of painful things.  You did
well, I think.

I'm so sorry for what is going on with you currently.  I read the above line
and had all sorts of reactions - the primary one being compassion.  An odd
sense of empathy as well - because, you see, I have been the 'alter' that has
left our SO or caused a breakup, more than once in the past.  A sense of
accountability here as well.  To be fair, this was before I was aware of our
multiplicity on any level, so I thought I was only acting for myself - I had no
idea
the collective pain I was inflicting on others inside and really didn't have
enough self-esteem and self-worth to understand that I was causing our SO pain
as
well.  I honestly didn't see - couldn't understand that he would possibly be
negatively affected by losing me; I just felt that I was protecting myself
from an undesirable and difficult situation.  Much has been learned since I
learned about the multiplicity and I have not upset the relationship to the
point
of break-up since.  Though I still come close; I've learned (just in the last
week, to be honest) that I am a form of a protector/defender personality here
as well - though less direct; apparently, one of the jobs I was created to
perform here was to be ALL outsiders from getting too close to us.  Whenever the
relationship was getting 'too close' - I went into an automatic (what I call
'multiple machinery' reaction) defense mode and misinterpreted a situation,
created a situation - you name it - whatever it took to 'get away.'  Remember -
this was all below my awareness.  Now that it's conscious and I'm learning what
I do, it's hard work to learn to wade through it and stay put.  Trust, risk,
fear of abandonment/rejection; intimate relationships hit the hardest for
people like us and we most always react 'automatically' from one of us inside -
we
paint the world with a global paintbrush and survival instincts take over and
all people are not to be trusted, no one is safe.  It's a muddy clarity when
one 'gets it' and tries to stop doing this and learn to differentiate, trust
me.  It breaks my heart now - with awareness of my role and behaviors, I see now
how it has punished and hurt people who are imperfect, by way of being human,
but trustworthy.  I don't know if the above applies to your situation - but
my guess would be that at least some of it may on your SO's side.  You got too
close - the protector's job is to get you away.  It's not even 'personal' per
se - it's survival instinct that kicks in and like in my case - rationalized
by the ever present denial that goes with MP in order to 'build the case'
against whoever is being sensed as a threat.  I'm sorry for the pain this has
caused you; unfortunately it is, I think, a common thread that would be valuable
for SO's to be made aware of in order to watch for it and arm themselves against
it, whenever possible.

You say you see glimpses of your SO; so you're still in contact?  Still
interact?  If so, what kind of relationship do you have with her protector?  Was
there a trigger event that her protector reacted to?  As far as you being told
she's died, she's just gone...I wouldn't put a whole lot of weight on that just
yet - especially if you've seen glimpses.  I know personally, I have had
feelings of 'losing' insiders and it's turned out they haven't been gone at all
at
times...it was just my denial or rationalization or me blocking them on some
unconscious level so I could do my job, I suppose...eliminate the emotional
threat.  It would be harder to do had I been able to hear the protests, cries,
longings inside from others.  The walls between personalities do their jobs
quite well at times, my friend.  Remember - there are many different levels of
consciousness at play in a multiple at any given time as well.  I don't know the
whole story - I am just assuming that her protector did not have a rational
reason for leaving you here.

You say that your loved one can rarely communicate - which tells me she still
does from time to time?  Communicates with you or someone else?  Is her
protector still communicating with you?  Sorry for all the questions; Maybe I
feel
a little bit of responsibility to possibly help in a situation where I have
created pain in similar ones in my history.  Even if help means only to listen.
For whatever reason - your post spoke loudly to me.

You say you've been in therapy - are you currently in therapy?  With a good
therapist, that you trust and talk about these things with?  What about your SO
- is she (or any of her system) in therapy?  Would be curious to hear the
professional(s) involved in this situation - what they have had to offer you
all.
Share whatever you're comfortable with sharing - nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry if I came on too strong or overwhelmed you.  I repeat - your post
moved me on many levels.

Take care -

Jen


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Thanks Jen, reading your post has helped me understand a little more about my
relationship with EJ. It is good to be able to be to look at things from the
multiples persepctive. EJ has not been able to explain this the way you have. I
think where I have developed is that in the early days I felt responsible for
EJ and what hapened to her. That was not my right because I was taking
something away from her. The responsibility is that of the abuser not the
multiple or their SO's. I no longer take responsibilty for what happened to EJ
but I can love her and be there for her. That is something I can deal with.

Thanks again Jen et al.

Graham

Quoting JNSWTHRT@...:

>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi again Dave and group;
>
>
>
> Hope all is well with you and yours.  Hope you're feeling a bit better.
>
>
>
> Your post spoke volumes to me; it is interesting to read about the impact
>
> some of the behaviors of multiples in relationship have on the singleton SO. 
> I,
>
> as the multiple in a blended relationship, have learned SO much just in the
>
> short time that this group has become revitalized just listening to how you
> all
>
> are affected - both negatively and positively - by your interactions with the
>
>
> multiples in your lives.  Thanks to you and to all for being so candid and
>
> open.  I guess there is much to be said for spending a bit of time in the
> others
>
> shoes, so to speak.  I am 'hearing' my SO's position much more clearly from
>
> listening to all here.
>
>
>
> I hope too, that I have something to offer by way of contributing my
>
> experience of the multiple perspective in an effort to create understanding
> and
>
> acceptance, and maybe in some way ease some pain, though I know it cannot be
>
> eliminated.  It is hard when two 'people' (one person and one system) try to
> connect
>
> on the levels that are hardest even for like minded people, when their minds
>
> work so completely different.  It is hard too, when people who have escaped
>
> their childhoods with scars, to be sure, but have for the most part been able
> to
>
> move forward - try to connect on those levels that are, again hardest even
> for
>
> like minded people, with those of us who at the very least share headspace
>
> and body with people who are literally still living in the terror of the
>
> childhood and those like me, who toggle back and forth between the past and
> the
>
> present by way of living with the challenge of PTSD.  It is hard for those
> like you
>
> to deal with what I call, 'multiple machinery' - a below awareness,
>
> automatic, built in, set of behaviors, reactions, coping mechanisms,
> conditioned
>
> instincts/responses etc. that are literally programmed into various
> personalities
>
> that co-inhabit your loved ones headspace and body, especially when your
> loved
>
> one and her/his insiders are not even aware of this 'multiple machinery'. 
>
> Motivations and drives are misinterpreted by the singleton because, of
> course,
>
> he/she measures only by what source they have - their own experience and are
>
> badly hurt by behaviors of the multiple that the multiple doesn't even
> understand,
>
> let alone have the ability to control and sorry to break it to you folks,
>
> often have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SINGLETON THEMSELVES.  This is one thing I
> see
>
> - and no offense intended here, so hear me out; singletons tend to take
> things
>
> 'too personally' - I know, how can't you?  It LOOKS personal, it FEELS
>
> personal, it's DIRECTED AT ME.  I understand and empathize greatly.  At the
> same
>
> time, I feel this is one of the keys in a blended relationship for easing the
>
>
> singletons pain and promoting better interaction - it has less to do with the
>
>
> person you are, the individual you are - but more to do with the role you are
>
>
> taking in the multiples life.  The closer you get - the harder we fight.  We
> can
>
> get to a point where we can't even SEE who YOU are anymore - you are just a
>
> free floating threat, so we fight.  Not on purpose, and we don't even know
> why -
>
> it's 'multiple machinery.'  Not an excuse for us multiples either - just part
>
>
> of an explanation of what could be happening - outside the awareness of
>
> either the multiple or the singleton.  Happening TO the couple.  It is the
>
> singletons responsibility to learn about this, change their ways of
> interacting
>
> accordingly (without compromising themselves in the process, of course)
> understand
>
> and support as they can.  It is the multiples responsibility to learn about
>
> this and do all they can do to take charge in all ways possible in order to
> work
>
> with it.  Heal it; convert it; repair it; manage it.  Like taming the wild
>
> horse - we, as multiples have to learn to take the reins - as the collective
>
> system, with each person doing what they can to better the situation.  It is
>
> incredibly hard work for us - but something we owe both ourselves, our loved
> ones
>
> and the world at large.  My opinion - from my experience. 
>
>
>
> I realize I have run on enough here and will close for now.  Thanks to all
>
> who read through to the end on this one!  And thanks for exercising patience
> and
>
> tolerance to this 'ole multiple who has finally found a place where they can
>
> express themselves without (too much) fear.
>
>
>
> Jen et al.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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MAJOR fight minutes away from happening as soon as D gets here... details when i
can, but i am PISSED OFF and tired of this bullshit and about to unload on him
in a big bad way when he hits the damn door!!!!!!!!!!!!
   Lissa


twisted angel <twistedangel64@...> wrote:
   well i can relate to the yoyo feeling LL  today's been pretty good here,
   sleep in sure helped me alot
   we're back from the store and D's upstairs making his salsa for tonight and
   i'm back here (where else) catching up again and eating a salad for my lunch

   hugs
   ttylaters
   me

Lissa Gifford <lissagifford@...> wrote:
   Feeling like a yo-yo here... up down up down etc.

   Busch race coming on so I'm not gonna bother with the gory details (just SSDD
anyway), but I did want to say thanks for the good energy... I think you musta
detoured it via Nashville on its way to Kentucky... LOLOL

   "Good" timing doesn't cover it, that was EXCELLENT timing!!  For real.

   Come to think of it, I've said my TN friend is psychic too, on occasion...
could I be right?  LOL  What *really* matters is it helped, anyway, so...
whatever works, huh?

   Off to watch my race (till I have to go to work but it's snowing here, so I
may call first and see if they need me or not before I head that way... got a
ride if I do, though, so whatever).

   Not looking fwd to after work so much anyway... can see a fight with D just
waiting to happen... joy.  Life is SUCH fun (not), sometimes... but I'll make
it.  Keep on keepin' on, right?

   Hugs,
   Lissa


JNSWTHRT@... wrote:
   In a message dated 2/18/2006 3:18:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lissagifford@... writes:

> I *am* feeling MUUUUUCH better now than I did when I last posted...

So good to hear this, Lissa.  Thoughts were with you last night - sent good
energy your way.  Glad you had good time with your friend; good timing.

Jen




Lissa Gifford
Nicholasville, KY
yahoo msgr: quietmama2003
http://www.myspace.com/elissa64

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