This would be a lot easier if it could be an in-person thing...  I
would very much like to be connected with people who also have
experience living with a loved one with DID...  I haven't found
anybody yet who is willing to take me seriously, including a "family
members of mentally ill persons" group at a local hospital...

Anyway, I'm Carolyn.  My mom was diagnosed with MPD in the early 90s
when I was about 12 or 13.  During one of her inpatient stays at a
psych. hospital, she made a good friend, A., who came to live with
us after she was discharged.  A. was also diagnosed, around the same
time, with MPD.  I spent 13 or 14 years of my life thinking that it
was perfectly normal for a person to go from giddy and smiling to
dark and heartless in the blink of an eye.  My mom did it all the
time.  A.'s "mood swings" weren't much different, although
considerably less angry and combative.  I never saw anything
particularly unusual about this.

In 1997, I met the man who would become my husband, "Legion."  He
was beautiful, and fascinating, and told a great story, and had a
vivid imagination.  I loved him from across the room, and it only
became stronger as I got to know him.  For years, I ignored all the
signs I saw -- partly because they were, as I said, kind of normal
to me, and partly because I didn't want to believe it.  But really,
somebody with sixty different "nicknames" and a horrendous memory,
who believes he's possessed by various entities who regularly take
over control of his body, whose eyes change color with his moods,
who is sometimes too frightened of nameless terrors to leave his
house, and sometimes so vibrant and sarcastic that he reduces crowds
to hysterical laughter...  He's been in therapy before, diagnosed
with about a dozen different things, none of which respond to
traditional treatments (e.g., Risperdal and Zyprexa
for "schizophrenia," and "bipolar disorder).  Nobody has once
thought of diagnosing him with DID.  That is, except my mom, who,
after many years of therapy, is now a singleton (by her own choice),
and a practicing social worker.  Of course, she cannot legally or
ethically diagnose or treat him, but she has met him and agrees
whole-heartedly with my assessment: I grew up with two multiples,
and then I went and married one.

My husband left me about a year and a half ago, after just six
months of marriage.  It seems that the "owner" of the body wasn't
the one who signed the marriage certificate, but that one of the
alters, deeply in love with me, disobeyed orders about not getting
into any trouble -- or major commitments -- while the "owner"
was "sleeping."  The "owner," angry and unwilling to negotiate, or
even to get to know me, left me and stated that he felt it would be
unwise for me and the alter who married me ("N.") to communicate any
longer.  I sometimes speak to the Others on the phone, and sometimes
I can tell the difference by their tones and inflections (it's
easier to tell in person), but I am rarely permitted to have any
sort of interaction, no matter how brief, with N., my husband.

I am heartbroken, of course, for so many reasons.  Obviously, it
hurts that my husband had left me, as it would in any separation.
It hurts to feel so alone in my knowledge that I have sixty
different relationships with sixty different people in one body, and
that, in some odd way, I've married a "ghost," someone who
doesn't "really" exist (although I'll argue against that all day
long...).  It hurts because I saw my mother go through her own
suffering, years of it, in and out of mental wards, going through
flashbacks and lost time and various sorts of breakdowns -- and I'm
terrified for my husband.  I know he's made at least two serious
suicide attempts, and that's not counting his weird penchant for
moderately dangerous activities...

I have tried to talk to some of Legion's "Others" about the
situation.  I've told him that I think he/they are a multiple...
He/they totally deny that possibility, ostensibly because they each
have their own separate memories...  (Well, DUH...)  Personally, I
think he/they do kind of know, and would rather hold off on
admitting it and dealing with the consequences.  I think eventually
he'll come to some kind of turning point, probably in the form of
some kind of serious breakdown, and end up in a hospital.  And, may
the higher powers will it, I hope somebody will see what's going on
and help him...  And I hope he won't run away.

(It should be noted that my mom's MPD/DID was caused by severe
childhood abuse.  My husband rarely talks about his childhood.  I've
met his mother and stepfather, and they're kind of unusual, but
friendly and loving to him, to me, and to our daughter.  But again,
he remembers little to nothing about his childhood and never talks
about much of anything before the age of sixteen...)

It helps to tell you this, even though I have no idea who any of you
are...  I'm so tired of keeping secrets lest my loved ones be judged
badly...  If anybody wants to be a penpal/cyber-penpal/whatever,
please, please don't hesitate to contact me...

Thank you for listening......

Love and peace,
~Carolyn*

In a message dated 11/27/2006 7:41:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
brettstoner@... writes:

> But I think I am making progress and doing well.
> Trust is so hard to develop and she is trying. God bless her.
>

Welcome to the group, Brett.  Glad you're here.  Thank you for opening up and
sharing some of your story.

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello my name is Brett and my girlfriend has DID.

When I was a child I was abused. My mother was an alcoholic and her
lover had 26 personalities. Growing up I never understood what was
happening till I was a teenager. Life was rough back then and I went
through the highs and lows of life. I never knew if she was the angry
child, mean latino, abusive male, or pretty little girl. I was living
with 26 different people in one household. It took me years to
recover but I am a happy sucessful person now with a good career.

Fast forward to today and I am now dating a beautiful girl who also
has DID. At first I noticed the unusal behavior patterns. The
switching, different alters, thats when I remembered my past and
noticed it with her. She would tell me she has blackouts and forgets.
She was always late for work.

So here are the details.

She was abused when she was a child. Raped by her dad and older
brothers. Raped by her first boyfriend. Abused by her dad and mom.
She has suffered such tremendous abuse that my abuse pales in
comparision. I have been with her for about 5 months now and I have
determined she has 2 alters. Here primary alter is a happy, loving
girl that I met and fuctions in society. She has the highs and lows,
self mutilation, depression, but she is good. Her alter is when she
was 14 years old.

Talking with primary the best we could come up with is that her alter
is stuck in the time frame about when she was raped by her first
boyfriend. I noticed her triggers are when we have sex and I am on
top. This is the same position as when she was raped. The primary
tells me when we have intercourse and in that position she will see
me then flash back and forth with her rapist and me. She stated she
will then blackout. And then I notice her 14 year old alter comes
out. I have noticed recently too that her 14 year old alter will
frequently come out in the mornings especially after a rough night of
nightmares.

I have been focused on talking with her alter and gaining her trust.
At first she wold not even talk to me. Now we will talk about her dog
and things that make her happy. She will let me touch her and place
my head on her shoulder. I dont know if she remembers me from day to
day or if its like ground hogs day movie and she is starting over
every time. Her alter loves self mutilation. Her primary is strong
enough to control herself but as soon as she switches to her 14 year
old alter she likes to cut. I can distract her but it is temporary.
She loves to cut and tries to use anything she can get her hands on.
Even her own teeth or fingernails. I asked her why and she said it
feels good to bleed and release it. I am not sure what else I should
be doing with her alter. Do I ask about the painful memories? Do I
just continue with the small chit chat and try to earn her trust. Do
I ask about her family? What should I say or do?

I tell her primary what happens with her alter. They are both
separate and don't communicate with each other. Her primary is taking
it very well that she has DID. She is healing. I can see a change in
her eyes. I am building her trust and I hope to one day gain her full
trust in men and for her to be able to love me as I love her.

I just wish she had insurance and could see a doctor. She is very
mistrusting and while she will share everything with me she is afraid
of doctors. She does not trust them to share her feelings with them.
I don't know what to do. Do I continue the work of BF and therapist.
I enjoy talking and listening with her and I think it is very
comforting to her. I suggested she start a diary but I am not sure if
she is writing in it daily. It is her personal diary and she does not
share it with me unless I ask. And even then she does not want to so
I don't pry.


I have had many experiences for MPD and being with a new person with
MPD can be trying. But I think I am making progress and doing well.
Trust is so hard to develop and she is trying. God bless her.
Brett

Hi, My husband has DID.  Looking for support.  Unfortunately he had a
five year affair with a coworker that appears to be a reenactment of
his childhood abuse but he still does not recall anything to do with
that relationship,  i.e. where they went etc. etc.  I have found out
most things via charges on the credit cards...Since then a severe
history of abuse has come out from his childhood...by the way I have
been married for 29 years and had no clue about the abuse....or the
affair...anyway he has been in therapy for 2.5 years and seems to be
working through the abuse but no recollection of the affair...

In a message dated 11/25/2006 8:37:16 AM Pacific Standard Time,
onearmedman223@... writes:

> My girl is only now
> accepting her Dx and learning to map her system

Hi Rick;

I guess we're the unofficial resident multiple system here, at least at this
point.  Odd designation, but there it is, I suppose.

The above is good work, in my opinion.  The denial, suppression and oft times
repression that accompanies multiplicity - and the incredibly difficult road
toward acceptance is a big obstacle; especially system-wide.  It certainly was
here.  Hope things continue to progress in a positive direction.

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com, "jonbelew" <jonbelew@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone I am married to a lovely woman with mutiples . I
really
> need help here I am at a lost , some of the personalities do not like
> me very much and some not at all . I have a new one living with me
> that I have not met in the last 6 years we have been together . This
> is the first one that didnt have shared memory of the children (that
> she has from a previous marriage)me or her parents at all,BTW her
> parents are still living. I do know how to handle this . I feel as if
> I am losing my sanity at times. I have no one to speak to about this.
> I love her very much, but i feel like maybe this personality is here
> to leave .
>            Help me please
>                Jon
>
I hear you Jon, it's a tough road at times. My girl is only now
accepting her Dx and learning to map her system. She has no
therapist,just books I've bought her and articles I've printed from
websites. I do know what it's like not to have anyone to talk to. there
are no local groups I've found, and family is not an option since I'm
the only one she has disclosed to. Sounds like you need a therapist for
both of you. I wish I had more help to offer, but it does sound like we
are in similar circumstances. All I can say is that I know her and I
truly love each other because we just don't give up,we survive...

Rick
Norman,OK

Hi Jon -

Welcome to the group.  I'm very sorry for what you're going through; I'm glad
you're talking here and hope that you continue to do so, if it helps.  Is
"your wife", consistant of the multiple system that you live with, or just one
of
the people within?  If the latter, are you still in communication with the
one that is your wife and/or anyone else within that you know and have
interaction with?  Curious.

I'm sorry that you feel like you're losing your sanity at times; we can
relate to that here.  It must be a challenge being an intimate to a multiple
system, to be sure.  Takes a special person with special qualities.

Not a lot of comfort, I'm sure, but at least know that you do have a place
where you can at least speak and be listened to here.

Keep writing as it helps you to do so -

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello everyone I am married to a lovely woman with mutiples . I really
need help here I am at a lost , some of the personalities do not like
me very much and some not at all . I have a new one living with me
that I have not met in the last 6 years we have been together . This
is the first one that didnt have shared memory of the children (that
she has from a previous marriage)me or her parents at all,BTW her
parents are still living. I do know how to handle this . I feel as if
I am losing my sanity at times. I have no one to speak to about this.
I love her very much, but i feel like maybe this personality is here
to leave .
            Help me please
                Jon

In a message dated 10/19/2006 8:44:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
raymond.barber@... writes:

> I'm married to a wonderful woman with multiples. I hope this
> group can help me too understand alittle more about multiples.
> This sound like a good group.
>

Hello Ray and welcome;

Nice to hear positive things said about us multiples ... I'm sure we can all
learn and understand from each other.  Look forward to hearing more from you.

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi group,
        I'm married to a wonderful woman with multiples. I hope this
group can help me too understand alittle more about multiples.
This sound like a good group.
                                Thanks Ray

In a message dated 10/18/2006 2:45:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
burkettfamily5@... writes:

> My name is Eddie, and my wife of 7 years has not been diagnosed with DID
> yet, but they are leaning towards this

Hi Eddie;

Welcome to the group.  Look forward to hearing more from you.  Glad you're
here.

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi group - My name is Eddie, and my wife of 7 years has not been diagnosed with
DID yet, but they are leaning towards this. I hope to get some ideas on how to
handle living with this from this group.  Thanks..

Eddie


-----Original Message-----
From: JNSWTHRT@...
To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [MPD Spouses] New member


In a message dated 10/11/2006 9:17:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
onearmedman223@... writes:

> Hi all, I'm husband and support person to my multiple wife. I just
> stumbled across the group via google...
>
> Rick
>

Welcome Rick. I am a member of a multiple system (Dragon) and we're glad
you're here. Look forward to hearing more from you.

Jen (et al.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi group - My name is Eddie, and my wife of 7 years has not been diagnosed with
DID yet, but they are leaning towards this. I hope to get some ideas on how to
handle living with this from this group.  Thanks..

Eddie


-----Original Message-----
From: JNSWTHRT@...
To: mpdspouses@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [MPD Spouses] New member


In a message dated 10/11/2006 9:17:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
onearmedman223@... writes:

> Hi all, I'm husband and support person to my multiple wife. I just
> stumbled across the group via google...
>
> Rick
>

Welcome Rick. I am a member of a multiple system (Dragon) and we're glad
you're here. Look forward to hearing more from you.

Jen (et al.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free
AOL Mail and more.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 10/11/2006 9:17:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
onearmedman223@... writes:

> Hi all, I'm husband and support person to my multiple wife. I just
> stumbled across the group via google...
>
> Rick
>

Welcome Rick.  I am a member of a multiple system (Dragon) and we're glad
you're here.  Look forward to hearing more from you.

Jen (et al.)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all, I'm husband and support person to my multiple wife. I just
stumbled across the group via google...

Rick
OKC,OK

Hey guys! Im getting married finally, cant believe this came true (thought it
would never happen).        Thanks to this thing  managed to meet a     
beautiful girl, who also has a bit of    freak in her (just how i like it ;)).
Wish me luck, I wish you all the same!

Hello all,

Over the past couple of days my wife, M has had some abrupt mood changes for no
apparent reason.
Yesterday morning she was pretty much her usual self, given the recent tensions
between us and we were getting along fine.   Then later that day we met for
lunch and it was obvious that she was depressed.   Later when I got home from
work, she was in bed (very unusual unless she's taking a nap) and looking down.
She has her own bedroom now.   She wanted to be left alone and I made myself
busy elsewhere.

Later that evening she went out to visit her older daughter and seemed better.  
When she got back, she was in a good mood and we spent the remainder of an
enjoyable evening watching some DVDs.   She even asked me for a massage, which
she only does when she feels relaxed and one of her friendly alters is up front.
We don't sleep together or have sex these days, so massage is about the only
touch I have with her apart from a hug or light goodbye kiss now and again.

This morning, she wakes me as usual and takes a bath.  I am invited to chat with
her.   I know that this bath will put her morning schedule out of wack, and I
know when that happens she will get irritated.   I also know that when she gets
irritated, the angry alter is likely to surface.  The angry alter seems to hate
me most of the time.  I also know not to say any of this to her.

So the predicable happens and she realizes that she's late and begins to get
upset.   Note: that she doen't work and being late isn't really a problem to
anyone except to her...which lately is a big deal, much more so than in the
past.   I go into another room and get ready for work.   Soon I hear her door
slam and she's angry.   I finish getting ready for work and I say "have a nice
day", I don't attempt to kiss her goodbye as usual knowing that will just make
her more angry and I leave for work.   I get 1/2 a block away and realize that I
haven't taken my diabeties meds and go back into the house.   She's coming out
of her bedroom door and sees me....see backs up like I'm someone she is afraid
of.   She says nothing and closes her door.   I tell her through her door that
I'm just getting my pills and am leaving now...Goodbye.

I understand these mood/alter changes are part of her DID.   She is only 4
sessions into therapy and I know that things will likely get worse before they
get better.  These abrupt changes are hard for me to deal with but I'm beginning
accept them better with time.   I know from experience that attempting to talk
about it right then is a BAD idea.

Questions:
1) When I see her puting herself into a situation that I know will result in her
getting angry or irratated should I do or say anything?    Did I do the right
things this morning?

2) After an episode like this is it wise to send her an email saying "Hi...hope
your feeling better", or "I care" or something?   I'm inclined to just say
nothing, knowing that next time I see her, she will likely be in a better mood.

I should let you all know that my knowledge of DID and her diagnosis is only 3
weeks ago.   I have been with her for almost 5 years.   Up until a month or so
ago, this kind of thing happened only rarely...now it's happening almost daily.

Dave

going to reply within the post to keep track of it
   beth

JNSWTHRT@... wrote:

Hi again Dave and group;

Hope all is well with you and yours.  Hope you're feeling a bit better.

Your post spoke volumes to me; it is interesting to read about the impact
some of the behaviors of multiples in relationship have on the singleton SO.  I,
as the multiple in a blended relationship, have learned SO much just in the
short time that this group has become revitalized just listening to how you all
are affected - both negatively and positively - by your interactions with the
multiples in your lives.  Thanks to you and to all for being so candid and
open.  I guess there is much to be said for spending a bit of time in the others
shoes, so to speak.  I am 'hearing' my SO's position much more clearly from
listening to all here.

   Beth says: and we learn so much from listening to you and other multiples
share too,  it's important i think to have that balance of knowledge,
experiences, and ideas to bounce off each other :)

I hope too, that I have something to offer by way of contributing my
experience of the multiple perspective in an effort to create understanding and
acceptance, and maybe in some way ease some pain, though I know it cannot be
eliminated.  It is hard when two 'people' (one person and one system) try to
connect
on the levels that are hardest even for like minded people, when their minds
work so completely different.  It is hard too, when people who have escaped
their childhoods with scars, to be sure, but have for the most part been able to
move forward - try to connect on those levels that are, again hardest even for
like minded people, with those of us who at the very least share headspace
and body with people who are literally still living in the terror of the
childhood and those like me, who toggle back and forth between the past and the
present by way of living with the challenge of PTSD.

   Beth says:  it's doubly harder i think when you both have troubling issues to
deal with and can "trigger" each other at times :(

     It is hard for those like you
to deal with what I call, 'multiple machinery' - a below awareness,
automatic, built in, set of behaviors, reactions, coping mechanisms, conditioned
instincts/responses etc. that are literally programmed into various
personalities
that co-inhabit your loved ones headspace and body, especially when your loved
one and her/his insiders are not even aware of this 'multiple machinery'.

   Beth says: one of the biggest helping factors for me was to really wrap my
head around the idea of many INDIVDUAL persons in the body and realize that with
each individual the relationships would differ and just accept that just because
A did this doesnt mean my D feels the same way........

Motivations and drives are misinterpreted by the singleton because, of course,
he/she measures only by what source they have - their own experience and are
badly hurt by behaviors of the multiple that the multiple doesn't even
understand,
let alone have the ability to control and sorry to break it to you folks,
often have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SINGLETON THEMSELVES.  This is one thing I see
- and no offense intended here, so hear me out; singletons tend to take things
'too personally' - I know, how can't you?  It LOOKS personal, it FEELS
personal, it's DIRECTED AT ME.

   Beth says: one of the hardest facts to deal with was because Ess (the asshole)
could actually hear and know everything i said to my D,  he, Ess, would
deliberately use my weak points my triggers and pains to hurt me further,  it
was a deliberate attack against me on his part in his attempts to drive me away
from them, to force me to leave.....  putting my foot down with him and setting
boundaries and letting him know i was serious about them and that he was driving
off the best friend they had and the ONE person that did love them as they were
and did not expect them to  "go away and leave me alone" or to disappear or even
integrate, and the ONE person they had in their life that would fight for them,
stand beside them and support them the most,  he did some serious thinking and
he got the message and backed off a great deal.....

   I understand and empathize greatly.  At the same
time, I feel this is one of the keys in a blended relationship for easing the
singletons pain and promoting better interaction - it has less to do with the
person you are, the individual you are - but more to do with the role you are
taking in the multiples life.  The closer you get - the harder we fight.  We can
get to a point where we can't even SEE who YOU are anymore - you are just a
free floating threat, so we fight.  Not on purpose, and we don't even know why -
it's 'multiple machinery.'  Not an excuse for us multiples either - just part
of an explanation of what could be happening - outside the awareness of
either the multiple or the singleton.  Happening TO the couple.  It is the
singletons responsibility to learn about this, change their ways of interacting
accordingly (without compromising themselves in the process, of course)
understand
and support as they can.  It is the multiples responsibility to learn about
this and do all they can do to take charge in all ways possible in order to work
with it.  Heal it; convert it; repair it; manage it.  Like taming the wild
horse - we, as multiples have to learn to take the reins - as the collective
system, with each person doing what they can to better the situation.  It is
incredibly hard work for us - but something we owe both ourselves, our loved
ones
and the world at large.  My opinion - from my experience.

   Beth says:  this sort of explains pretty much what D and I have done (really
more so what the insiders and I have done because we have much better
communications with each other than D and the insiders do)  because i do accept
them as individuals with a "right" to be there it has made progress in dealing
with the "rough" times much easier,  respect and acknowledgement go a long long
way........

I realize I have run on enough here and will close for now.  Thanks to all
who read through to the end on this one!  And thanks for exercising patience and
tolerance to this 'ole multiple who has finally found a place where they can
express themselves without (too much) fear.

Beth says: i'm glad you are expressing yourself,  it is a big chance i know to
lay your feelings/experiences out on the line for "strangers" to read and/or
pick apart.
   thank you for being so open with us
   beth





DB's Cajun Country Treats
   Treats for All occasions from our home to yours.
   http://www.cajuncountrycandies.com/C134478


---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 2/19/2006 11:12:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,
twistedangel64@... writes:

> kids are the top priority for sure

Absolutely, Beth.  Second that one, for sure

Jen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greg,

   i can understand how rough everything seems for you and i understand the
heartbreak,

   it definitely sounds like you need to distances yourself as much as possible
while you come to terms with everything that has happened.....

   have you considered some counseling to help you cope with everything?
   also with you having kids,  if you focus on what is best for them that may
help you in turn focus on what is best for you too in the long run

   kids are the top priority for sure

   good luck
   beth

Gregory Woods <gw6786@...> wrote:
   Hi Jen,
   I work in the same building with Lily.  It drives me crazy cause she won't
talk to me anymore.  She just says we have nothing more to talk about.  She has
gotten involved with someone; I tried to return some things and get some things
back, then she just starts crying and then Diane returns and shuts off her
emotions.  Today, when I saw her, she's just happy as a clam, overtly ignoring
me.  Other times she looks depressed, but to no avail she will not talk to me;
she can't look me in the eyes.  If she does she starts crying.  I have just
tried to reach a common ground of at least friendship, which we always said we
would be, but I get nothing.
   I feel I am living a true twilight zone or it reminds me of a Bufffy the
Vampire Slayer episode, when an alternate reality sets in, but it all wrong.
   I don't know what to do, I left my family for her (not to blame her), she left
hers, and then overnight, it all just turned upside down.  When she cries it is
so intense I can bare to hurt her, but she has no problem just hurting me.  She
says it was all a mistake that "we" (her and I) have to live with it.  She used
to tell me of a battle of wills going on inside her and I think my Lily is
battling in there, or maybe just resigned herself that she can't get control
back.  While understanding this helps, the shere loss, missing her, and this
abandonment of me is so painful.  Of course, I'm the only one close enough to
her to know all this DID stuff.  I covered up her strange behaivor, her
betrayals, so no one would know and now I look like a old boyfriend that just
can't move on.  She really is a manipulator of people, doesn't lie, but doesn't
tell the whole story cause it would make her look crazy or a huge lier.  But you
know she does not lie within each alter.  The alter have
their version of the truth.  I try to move on, but something really nags at me
that she knows it, I know it, that this is so wrong.  But the pain in the mean
time is paralyzing.  When we together, something I would do, she was jealous of
my kids, cause if they needed me, I took action; anyway, she get mad and leave,
go back to her x-husband's house, not be with him, just on the couch.  Well this
happened way too frequently, but we always reconcile, Lily would reemerge and
then all would be great again.  She always convinced me that she could control
herself.  I knew we loved each other.  Well, one time, to make a long story,
short, she went out, met someone else, and essentially shut me out since.  Only
glimpses.  She told me she could turn off her feelings, and she did and she ran.
9 months later I'm still in shock, constantly questioning my own sanity in all
of this.  Asking, how could this have happened.
   Did not mean to go so long here, but I just saw her and I broke down.
   Thanks,
   Greg

JNSWTHRT@... wrote:
   In a message dated 2/15/2006 5:35:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gw6786@... writes:

> The alter that loves me (or used to) has been suppressed or whatever
> happens.  The protector took over her life (the one that had been abused) and
left
> me.

Hi Greg;

I'm so glad you wrote - I know how hard that can be...it certainly is for me,
especially when I'm reaching out and/or speaking of painful things.  You did
well, I think.

I'm so sorry for what is going on with you currently.  I read the above line
and had all sorts of reactions - the primary one being compassion.  An odd
sense of empathy as well - because, you see, I have been the 'alter' that has
left our SO or caused a breakup, more than once in the past.  A sense of
accountability here as well.  To be fair, this was before I was aware of our
multiplicity on any level, so I thought I was only acting for myself - I had no
idea
the collective pain I was inflicting on others inside and really didn't have
enough self-esteem and self-worth to understand that I was causing our SO pain
as
well.  I honestly didn't see - couldn't understand that he would possibly be
negatively affected by losing me; I just felt that I was protecting myself
from an undesirable and difficult situation.  Much has been learned since I
learned about the multiplicity and I have not upset the relationship to the
point
of break-up since.  Though I still come close; I've learned (just in the last
week, to be honest) that I am a form of a protector/defender personality here
as well - though less direct; apparently, one of the jobs I was created to
perform here was to be ALL outsiders from getting too close to us.  Whenever the
relationship was getting 'too close' - I went into an automatic (what I call
'multiple machinery' reaction) defense mode and misinterpreted a situation,
created a situation - you name it - whatever it took to 'get away.'  Remember -
this was all below my awareness.  Now that it's conscious and I'm learning what
I do, it's hard work to learn to wade through it and stay put.  Trust, risk,
fear of abandonment/rejection; intimate relationships hit the hardest for
people like us and we most always react 'automatically' from one of us inside -
we
paint the world with a global paintbrush and survival instincts take over and
all people are not to be trusted, no one is safe.  It's a muddy clarity when
one 'gets it' and tries to stop doing this and learn to differentiate, trust
me.  It breaks my heart now - with awareness of my role and behaviors, I see now
how it has punished and hurt people who are imperfect, by way of being human,
but trustworthy.  I don't know if the above applies to your situation - but
my guess would be that at least some of it may on your SO's side.  You got too
close - the protector's job is to get you away.  It's not even 'personal' per
se - it's survival instinct that kicks in and like in my case - rationalized
by the ever present denial that goes with MP in order to 'build the case'
against whoever is being sensed as a threat.  I'm sorry for the pain this has
caused you; unfortunately it is, I think, a common thread that would be valuable
for SO's to be made aware of in order to watch for it and arm themselves against
it, whenever possible.

You say you see glimpses of your SO; so you're still in contact?  Still
interact?  If so, what kind of relationship do you have with her protector?  Was
there a trigger event that her protector reacted to?  As far as you being told
she's died, she's just gone...I wouldn't put a whole lot of weight on that just
yet - especially if you've seen glimpses.  I know personally, I have had
feelings of 'losing' insiders and it's turned out they haven't been gone at all
at
times...it was just my denial or rationalization or me blocking them on some
unconscious level so I could do my job, I suppose...eliminate the emotional
threat.  It would be harder to do had I been able to hear the protests, cries,
longings inside from others.  The walls between personalities do their jobs
quite well at times, my friend.  Remember - there are many different levels of
consciousness at play in a multiple at any given time as well.  I don't know the
whole story - I am just assuming that her protector did not have a rational
reason for leaving you here.

You say that your loved one can rarely communicate - which tells me she still
does from time to time?  Communicates with you or someone else?  Is her
protector still communicating with you?  Sorry for all the questions; Maybe I
feel
a little bit of responsibility to possibly help in a situation where I have
created pain in similar ones in my history.  Even if help means only to listen.
For whatever reason - your post spoke loudly to me.

You say you've been in therapy - are you currently in therapy?  With a good
therapist, that you trust and talk about these things with?  What about your SO
- is she (or any of her system) in therapy?  Would be curious to hear the
professional(s) involved in this situation - what they have had to offer you
all.
Share whatever you're comfortable with sharing - nothing more, nothing less.
Sorry if I came on too strong or overwhelmed you.  I repeat - your post
moved me on many levels.

Take care -

Jen


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Thanks Jen, reading your post has helped me understand a little more about my
relationship with EJ. It is good to be able to be to look at things from the
multiples persepctive. EJ has not been able to explain this the way you have. I
think where I have developed is that in the early days I felt responsible for
EJ and what hapened to her. That was not my right because I was taking
something away from her. The responsibility is that of the abuser not the
multiple or their SO's. I no longer take responsibilty for what happened to EJ
but I can love her and be there for her. That is something I can deal with.

Thanks again Jen et al.

Graham

Quoting JNSWTHRT@...:

>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi again Dave and group;
>
>
>
> Hope all is well with you and yours.  Hope you're feeling a bit better.
>
>
>
> Your post spoke volumes to me; it is interesting to read about the impact
>
> some of the behaviors of multiples in relationship have on the singleton SO. 
> I,
>
> as the multiple in a blended relationship, have learned SO much just in the
>
> short time that this group has become revitalized just listening to how you
> all
>
> are affected - both negatively and positively - by your interactions with the
>
>
> multiples in your lives.  Thanks to you and to all for being so candid and
>
> open.  I guess there is much to be said for spending a bit of time in the
> others
>
> shoes, so to speak.  I am 'hearing' my SO's position much more clearly from
>
> listening to all here.
>
>
>
> I hope too, that I have something to offer by way of contributing my
>
> experience of the multiple perspective in an effort to create understanding
> and
>
> acceptance, and maybe in some way ease some pain, though I know it cannot be
>
> eliminated.  It is hard when two 'people' (one person and one system) try to
> connect
>
> on the levels that are hardest even for like minded people, when their minds
>
> work so completely different.  It is hard too, when people who have escaped
>
> their childhoods with scars, to be sure, but have for the most part been able
> to
>
> move forward - try to connect on those levels that are, again hardest even
> for
>
> like minded people, with those of us who at the very least share headspace
>
> and body with people who are literally still living in the terror of the
>
> childhood and those like me, who toggle back and forth between the past and
> the
>
> present by way of living with the challenge of PTSD.  It is hard for those
> like you
>
> to deal with what I call, 'multiple machinery' - a below awareness,
>
> automatic, built in, set of behaviors, reactions, coping mechanisms,
> conditioned
>
> instincts/responses etc. that are literally programmed into various
> personalities
>
> that co-inhabit your loved ones headspace and body, especially when your
> loved
>
> one and her/his insiders are not even aware of this 'multiple machinery'. 
>
> Motivations and drives are misinterpreted by the singleton because, of
> course,
>
> he/she measures only by what source they have - their own experience and are
>
> badly hurt by behaviors of the multiple that the multiple doesn't even
> understand,
>
> let alone have the ability to control and sorry to break it to you folks,
>
> often have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SINGLETON THEMSELVES.  This is one thing I
> see
>
> - and no offense intended here, so hear me out; singletons tend to take
> things
>
> 'too personally' - I know, how can't you?  It LOOKS personal, it FEELS
>
> personal, it's DIRECTED AT ME.  I understand and empathize greatly.  At the
> same
>
> time, I feel this is one of the keys in a blended relationship for easing the
>
>
> singletons pain and promoting better interaction - it has less to do with the
>
>
> person you are, the individual you are - but more to do with the role you are
>
>
> taking in the multiples life.  The closer you get - the harder we fight.  We
> can
>
> get to a point where we can't even SEE who YOU are anymore - you are just a
>
> free floating threat, so we fight.  Not on purpose, and we don't even know
> why -
>
> it's 'multiple machinery.'  Not an excuse for us multiples either - just part
>
>
> of an explanation of what could be happening - outside the awareness of
>
> either the multiple or the singleton.  Happening TO the couple.  It is the
>
> singletons responsibility to learn about this, change their ways of
> interacting
>
> accordingly (without compromising themselves in the process, of course)
> understand
>
> and support as they can.  It is the multiples responsibility to learn about
>
> this and do all they can do to take charge in all ways possible in order to
> work
>
> with it.  Heal it; convert it; repair it; manage it.  Like taming the wild
>
> horse - we, as multiples have to learn to take the reins - as the collective
>
> system, with each person doing what they can to better the situation.  It is
>
> incredibly hard work for us - but something we owe both ourselves, our loved
> ones
>
> and the world at large.  My opinion - from my experience. 
>
>
>
> I realize I have run on enough here and will close for now.  Thanks to all
>
> who read through to the end on this one!  And thanks for exercising patience
> and
>
> tolerance to this 'ole multiple who has finally found a place where they can
>
> express themselves without (too much) fear.
>
>
>
> Jen et al.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
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>
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>

MAJOR fight minutes away from happening as soon as D gets here... details when i
can, but i am PISSED OFF and tired of this bullshit and about to unload on him
in a big bad way when he hits the damn door!!!!!!!!!!!!
   Lissa


twisted angel <twistedangel64@...> wrote:
   well i can relate to the yoyo feeling LL  today's been pretty good here,
   sleep in sure helped me alot
   we're back from the store and D's upstairs making his salsa for tonight and
   i'm back here (where else) catching up again and eating a salad for my lunch

   hugs
   ttylaters
   me

Lissa Gifford <lissagifford@...> wrote:
   Feeling like a yo-yo here... up down up down etc.

   Busch race coming on so I'm not gonna bother with the gory details (just SSDD
anyway), but I did want to say thanks for the good energy... I think you musta
detoured it via Nashville on its way to Kentucky... LOLOL

   "Good" timing doesn't cover it, that was EXCELLENT timing!!  For real.

   Come to think of it, I've said my TN friend is psychic too, on occasion...
could I be right?  LOL  What *really* matters is it helped, anyway, so...
whatever works, huh?

   Off to watch my race (till I have to go to work but it's snowing here, so I
may call first and see if they need me or not before I head that way... got a
ride if I do, though, so whatever).

   Not looking fwd to after work so much anyway... can see a fight with D just
waiting to happen... joy.  Life is SUCH fun (not), sometimes... but I'll make
it.  Keep on keepin' on, right?

   Hugs,
   Lissa


JNSWTHRT@... wrote:
   In a message dated 2/18/2006 3:18:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lissagifford@... writes:

> I *am* feeling MUUUUUCH better now than I did when I last posted...

So good to hear this, Lissa.  Thoughts were with you last night - sent good
energy your way.  Glad you had good time with your friend; good timing.

Jen




Lissa Gifford
Nicholasville, KY
yahoo msgr: quietmama2003
http://www.myspace.com/elissa64

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well i can relate to the yoyo feeling LL  today's been pretty good here,
   sleep in sure helped me alot
   we're back from the store and D's upstairs making his salsa for tonight and
   i'm back here (where else) catching up again and eating a salad for my lunch

   hugs
   ttylaters
   me

Lissa Gifford <lissagifford@...> wrote:
   Feeling like a yo-yo here... up down up down etc.

   Busch race coming on so I'm not gonna bother with the gory details (just SSDD
anyway), but I did want to say thanks for the good energy... I think you musta
detoured it via Nashville on its way to Kentucky... LOLOL

   "Good" timing doesn't cover it, that was EXCELLENT timing!!  For real.

   Come to think of it, I've said my TN friend is psychic too, on occasion...
could I be right?  LOL  What *really* matters is it helped, anyway, so...
whatever works, huh?

   Off to watch my race (till I have to go to work but it's snowing here, so I
may call first and see if they need me or not before I head that way... got a
ride if I do, though, so whatever).

   Not looking fwd to after work so much anyway... can see a fight with D just
waiting to happen... joy.  Life is SUCH fun (not), sometimes... but I'll make
it.  Keep on keepin' on, right?

   Hugs,
   Lissa


JNSWTHRT@... wrote:
   In a message dated 2/18/2006 3:18:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lissagifford@... writes:

> I *am* feeling MUUUUUCH better now than I did when I last posted...

So good to hear this, Lissa.  Thoughts were with you last night - sent good
energy your way.  Glad you had good time with your friend; good timing.

Jen




Lissa Gifford
Nicholasville, KY
yahoo msgr: quietmama2003
http://www.myspace.com/elissa64

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Feeling like a yo-yo here... up down up down etc.

   Busch race coming on so I'm not gonna bother with the gory details (just SSDD
anyway), but I did want to say thanks for the good energy... I think you musta
detoured it via Nashville on its way to Kentucky... LOLOL

   "Good" timing doesn't cover it, that was EXCELLENT timing!!  For real.

   Come to think of it, I've said my TN friend is psychic too, on occasion...
could I be right?  LOL  What *really* matters is it helped, anyway, so...
whatever works, huh?

   Off to watch my race (till I have to go to work but it's snowing here, so I
may call first and see if they need me or not before I head that way... got a
ride if I do, though, so whatever).

   Not looking fwd to after work so much anyway... can see a fight with D just
waiting to happen... joy.  Life is SUCH fun (not), sometimes... but I'll make
it.  Keep on keepin' on, right?

   Hugs,
   Lissa


JNSWTHRT@... wrote:
   In a message dated 2/18/2006 3:18:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lissagifford@... writes:

> I *am* feeling MUUUUUCH better now than I did when I last posted...

So good to hear this, Lissa.  Thoughts were with you last night - sent good
energy your way.  Glad you had good time with your friend; good timing.

Jen




Lissa Gifford
Nicholasville, KY
yahoo msgr: quietmama2003
http://www.myspace.com/elissa64

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi again Dave and group;

Hope all is well with you and yours.  Hope you're feeling a bit better.

Your post spoke volumes to me; it is interesting to read about the impact
some of the behaviors of multiples in relationship have on the singleton SO.  I,
as the multiple in a blended relationship, have learned SO much just in the
short time that this group has become revitalized just listening to how you all
are affected - both negatively and positively - by your interactions with the
multiples in your lives.  Thanks to you and to all for being so candid and
open.  I guess there is much to be said for spending a bit of time in the others
shoes, so to speak.  I am 'hearing' my SO's position much more clearly from
listening to all here.

I hope too, that I have something to offer by way of contributing my
experience of the multiple perspective in an effort to create understanding and
acceptance, and maybe in some way ease some pain, though I know it cannot be
eliminated.  It is hard when two 'people' (one person and one system) try to
connect
on the levels that are hardest even for like minded people, when their minds
work so completely different.  It is hard too, when people who have escaped
their childhoods with scars, to be sure, but have for the most part been able to
move forward - try to connect on those levels that are, again hardest even for
like minded people, with those of us who at the very least share headspace
and body with people who are literally still living in the terror of the
childhood and those like me, who toggle back and forth between the past and the
present by way of living with the challenge of PTSD.  It is hard for those like
you
to deal with what I call, 'multiple machinery' - a below awareness,
automatic, built in, set of behaviors, reactions, coping mechanisms, conditioned
instincts/responses etc. that are literally programmed into various
personalities
that co-inhabit your loved ones headspace and body, especially when your loved
one and her/his insiders are not even aware of this 'multiple machinery'.
Motivations and drives are misinterpreted by the singleton because, of course,
he/she measures only by what source they have - their own experience and are
badly hurt by behaviors of the multiple that the multiple doesn't even
understand,
let alone have the ability to control and sorry to break it to you folks,
often have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SINGLETON THEMSELVES.  This is one thing I see
- and no offense intended here, so hear me out; singletons tend to take things
'too personally' - I know, how can't you?  It LOOKS personal, it FEELS
personal, it's DIRECTED AT ME.  I understand and empathize greatly.  At the same
time, I feel this is one of the keys in a blended relationship for easing the
singletons pain and promoting better interaction - it has less to do with the
person you are, the individual you are - but more to do with the role you are
taking in the multiples life.  The closer you get - the harder we fight.  We can
get to a point where we can't even SEE who YOU are anymore - you are just a
free floating threat, so we fight.  Not on purpose, and we don't even know why -
it's 'multiple machinery.'  Not an excuse for us multiples either - just part
of an explanation of what could be happening - outside the awareness of
either the multiple or the singleton.  Happening TO the couple.  It is the
singletons responsibility to learn about this, change their ways of interacting
accordingly (without compromising themselves in the process, of course)
understand
and support as they can.  It is the multiples responsibility to learn about
this and do all they can do to take charge in all ways possible in order to work
with it.  Heal it; convert it; repair it; manage it.  Like taming the wild
horse - we, as multiples have to learn to take the reins - as the collective
system, with each person doing what they can to better the situation.  It is
incredibly hard work for us - but something we owe both ourselves, our loved
ones
and the world at large.  My opinion - from my experience.

I realize I have run on enough here and will close for now.  Thanks to all
who read through to the end on this one!  And thanks for exercising patience and
tolerance to this 'ole multiple who has finally found a place where they can
express themselves without (too much) fear.

Jen et al.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

there's a limit to posts lenghts but i cant remember what it is so wha tyou do
is post and it will cut it off
   then you make the next post with more
   etc

   or you put it in the files section LOL

   beth

Lissa Gifford <lissagifford@...> wrote:
   Hmm...

   Good point, Jen, about the 5-page document being a dicey thing for posting...
it SHOULD work fine... but, Greg, in the event it doesn't post properly (I don't
know if there's a limit to how big a post can be... we'll find out, hmm?), you
could upload it into the Files area...

   I'm assuming you're net savvy enough to do that, but if not, you can always
email it to me and give ME permission to upload it for you... here and/or at the
new group, it'd be fine sent to either or both.

   HTH, (hope this helps)
   Lissa

JNSWTHRT@... wrote:
   In a message dated 2/17/2006 4:18:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gw6786@... writes:

> Would you be interested in reading?

Hi Greg;

Sorry I didn't get back to you today - swamped with work and when J is in
high gear, there's no getting past her.  Deadlines to be met and we will be out
of town next week (though she takes a 'traveling office' with her - very type
'A' personality there) so she was in turbo mode today.  Not a good excuse - but
the true reason.  I still intend to write at more length, so hopefully that
will happen soon - one never knows for sure here!  We'll have the laptop with
us next week and are planning to stay in contact as well.

Yes, I'd be willing and interested in reading whatever you'd like to share.
It's your way of being heard, I understand, and we can listen.  I'm sure all
in the group here would be comfortable with you posting on list - though I
don't know how it works with a five page document - Lissa and Beth would know;
If
you don't want to post here, feel free to send privately.

Hope you're maintaining well and taking care of yourself during this hard
time

Jen




Lissa Gifford
Nicholasville, KY
yahoo msgr: quietmama2003
http://www.myspace.com/elissa64

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can work a couple of ways

   copy and paste

   or add the txt document in the files section of the group

   best
   beth

JNSWTHRT@... wrote:
   In a message dated 2/17/2006 4:18:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gw6786@... writes:

> Would you be interested in reading?

Hi Greg;

Sorry I didn't get back to you today - swamped with work and when J is in
high gear, there's no getting past her.  Deadlines to be met and we will be out
of town next week (though she takes a 'traveling office' with her - very type
'A' personality there) so she was in turbo mode today.  Not a good excuse - but
the true reason.  I still intend to write at more length, so hopefully that
will happen soon - one never knows for sure here!  We'll have the laptop with
us next week and are planning to stay in contact as well.

Yes, I'd be willing and interested in reading whatever you'd like to share.
It's your way of being heard, I understand, and we can listen.  I'm sure all
in the group here would be comfortable with you posting on list - though I
don't know how it works with a five page document - Lissa and Beth would know;
If
you don't want to post here, feel free to send privately.

Hope you're maintaining well and taking care of yourself during this hard
time

Jen


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In a message dated 2/17/2006 11:49:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,
lissagifford@... writes:

> I'm hurt that the T doesn't want to see me any more...

I kind of anticipated this when you first mentioned that it happened.
Wondered if it would touch any abandonment issues for you; it sure would for me
-
just automatically, but then I'm a different sort of animal here.  Are you the
type that kind of reacts on a 'delay' of sorts?  I am;  takes a while for
something to soak in and for me to realize just how I'm reacting.  I understand
how
you could feel hurt in thinking the therapist doesn't want to see you
anymore.

In thinking it through - I think it's probably a blessing in disguise.  With
some distance from those initial emotions; hopefully you'll see it too.
First, know that it is not a reaction to you as a person - she doesn't know you
as
a person - so it's not personal rejection.  Hard to get past, I know, but I
believe that to be true.  Next, think how hard it would have been to have
starting working with this person, become attached, develop trust and THEN have
her
tell you that her field of expertise does not match up with your needs.  Hurt,
abandonment, rejection - magnified tenfold.  Then having to start all over
again with someone new - hard work.  From where I sit, it's a good thing that
she was able to assess the situation and come to the conclusion that she would b
e unable to give you what you need.  You know, you don't hire a plumber to do
electrical work - even though they're both in the construction field.
Likewise with a therapist - you interview and 'hire' the one best suited for
you.  I
would encourage you to keep looking - 'interview', if you will.  After all, in
the end run - they are a professional who is 'working for you' - or should
be, in my opinion.  The therapeutic process is such an important one, and can do
all sorts of good when right - and can do all sorts of harm when wrong.  You
have to fit the right fit, on both sides.

Chin up - keep looking

Jen



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In a message dated 2/18/2006 3:18:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lissagifford@... writes:

> I *am* feeling MUUUUUCH better now than I did when I last posted...

So good to hear this, Lissa.  Thoughts were with you last night - sent good
energy your way.  Glad you had good time with your friend; good timing.

Jen


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Not gonna go into details... but I *am* feeling MUUUUUCH better now than I did
when I last posted... heard from an old and dear friend whofirst emailed, then
chatted with me online for a while, it was really fun, and even though I'm
pushing 22 hours awake now, it was DEFINITELY worth it.

   So I think now I'll take myself off to bed... just wanted anybody who cares to
know I'm smiling again, and have been for pretty much the last hour or so.

   Hugs,
   Lissa



Lissa Gifford
Nicholasville, KY
yahoo msgr: quietmama2003
http://www.myspace.com/elissa64

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