Kitty,

Haven't seen a communication from either you or Paul in over a week!

Hope everything is OK.



Regards,

Bob



[Hi Bob,



Thanks for letting us know that you're concerned about the fall off in activity

from MoreLife Yahoo in the past week. Personally, I and Paul are doing quite

well - more on that in a moment. We'd noted to ourselves  too how quiet things

have been, especially after the flurry of posts earlier this month and in

January. There is a post in the queue awaiting the author to fulfill the

identification requirements and if/when that is done, I'll release that message

to members and the archives. (I don't count the 2 spam messages that an

unidentified member sent in the past 2 weeks that I rejected after explaining

why they were inappropriate - in addition to the failure to identify hirself -

and a warning with the second that a repeat would result in my removing hir from

the group. S/he left the group the next day.)



We'd also thought that some of the recent posts would spur some discussion from

others. So if any members have something they'd like to say on any of these or

other appropriate subjects for this group, they are welcome to post as long as

they've met the requirements of identification.



As for me and Paul, we've been quite busy - resveratrol group buy; several pages

on MoreLife.org being changed as a result of our going to 1 meal daily;

supplement/chemical regimen update; new separate ventures with other individuals

in early development; 2 new Yahoo groups in their infancy; monitoring new

studies/papers via sci.life-extension and other sites; studying neurobiology,

biopsychology and cognitive therapy; and of course the routines of our own

maintenance and purposeful enjoyment. In addition to all of these, we recently

had a weekend intensive visit at our house with 3 friends which provided us all

with learning experiences to varying degrees in introspection and communication.

There may be separate posts on these experiences and follow-up assessments from

various parties.



So, Bob, the lull in MoreLife Yahoo activity is not a result of me and Paul

slowing down. (I won't speak for what Olafur has been up to, but will let him

respond on that himself.)



The new group policy of the moderators not posting comments embedded in

messages, except for ones, like your own, specifically directed to us has in

fact reduced our commenting in general. We have purposely not replied to a

number of messages, leaving them for others to be the first to comment. Maybe

this fact and opportunity for others still hasn't sunk in ;>) There are an

enormous number of subjects related to MoreLife.org and SelfSIP.org - only some

of which have yet to be the subjects of posts - which could benefit the poster

and others (sometimes including us) by being discussed here.



**Kitty

--- In morelife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Kemmler" <kemmler@...> wrote:



[Olafur snipped Bob expression of concern for I and Kitty's well-being and most

of Kitty's response --Paul]



>

> [So, Bob, the lull in MoreLife Yahoo activity is not a result of me

> and Paul slowing down. (I won't speak for what Olafur has been up to,

> but will let him respond on that himself.) **Kitty]



I have not been up to much lately. The reasons for that are that I've

been sick, but also a little lazy and lacking motivation when it comes

to getting certain things done. Lately I have been lifting weights 3

times a week with my twin brother and my cousin. A little more than

two weeks ago (on Wednesday the 7th of February) my cousin noticed

upon meeting me at the gym that my jaws appeared to be a little

swollen. I myself had noticed the same thing the day before but

thought it was just my imagination. My cousin, who happens to be a

doctor, immediately suspected that I had contracted a mumps infection

since this kind of swelling in the jaw area is one of the main symptoms of

mumps. Upon his recommendation I went to see a doctor the next morning. The

doctor I went to also strongly suspected that I had a mumps infection. In

addition I had also suffered from mild edema in the legs and leg cramps which

started a few days before I noticed the swelling in the jaw area. Edema and

cramps are not one of the symptoms of mumps however so in addition to having a

blood test taken to screen for the mumps virus I also had a blood and urine test

that tested for some parameters to track down the cause of the edema and the

cramps. A few days later the swelling had gotten a little worse and I clearly

was sick. I started getting very tired and was sleeping 9-11 hours a day. This

persisted for almost two weeks. I did not contract a fever however and the

swelling never got to the point of being painful as is common in people with

mumps. But I have been taking ibuprofen to keep the swelling down as well as

taking high dose vitamin C, zinc and echinacea for the illness.



As of now I am almost fully recovered. A mumps infection usually takes

about 10-12 days to clear out. I still have a little swelling in the

jaw area but not much. The edema and the cramps have also improved

considerably, and I now have my energy back and am anxious to go back

to the gym:-) I will wait for the swelling to disappear completely

before doing that however. I have now gotten most of the blood test

results. The blood test revealed some antibodies to the mumps virus

which are probably from a vaccination I had against the mumps virus

over 20 years ago. But as the doctor said some of the old mumps

vaccines may not work so well and another blood test is needed later

on to tell if I have mumps or not. I guess this is because it takes

the body a while to produce new antibodies against the mumps virus and

these will not be seen right away. Interestingly the blood test

results did not reveal any cause for the edema and the cramps. Several

electrolytes were tested along with some markers of kidney function

but all of these were fine. Because I was vaccinated against mumps

when I was younger and because I also have edema and cramps which are

not symptoms of a mumps infection the doctor is not completely

convinced that I have mumps infection. Therefore, just as a

precaution, he sent me to a chest x-ray this Friday to see if I have

an enlarged heart and also to check if I have a benign lung tumor as

both of these could be the cause of the edema. The same day I also had

the second blood test done to screen for antibodies against the mumps

virus. The results of that test will reveal for sure if I truly have

mumps infection or not. I have yet to receive the results of these

tests but should receive them this week. I'm hoping that whatever is

causing the edema and the cramps will disappear as I recover from this

illness and so far it looks good, as the edema and cramps have improved

considerably as I've been recovering.



[We were actually concerned about Olafur last week when we hadn't heard from him

since he wrote us back on 2/9/07 that he'd contracted mumps. When he didn't

respond to an email from me last Friday, Paul emailed his twin brother with our

concerns. It was a relief to hear from him yesterday with much of what he's

letting everyone else here know.



It occurs to me that being psychologically down, feeling "a little lazy and

lacking motivation when it comes to getting certain things done" wouldn't be

unexpected for someone who despite spending a lot of effort in researching ways

to optimize hir health, comes down with a disease or disorder. This kind of

discouragement has at times accompanied Paul's periodic mysterious left leg

swelling, chills and fever accompanied by short term mental confusion during the

chills phase - *much* less severe than it was at the beginning in March 2000 and

even 3 years ago, but it will not seem to stop for good. The human body is so

complex and despite the large amounts that he (and even you, Olafur) know about

it's functioning, there is still a great deal not understood.



We're glad to hear that you're well on the mend physically and that your spirits

are rising too. **Kitty]



[Welcome to the club of those who periodically have strange undiagnosable

maladies. The worst part about mine is that it will just not seem to stop

recurring an average of 3-4 times per year. Each episode is now not really any

great trouble because I know so well what is happening, exactly what its stages

are, and that I just have to be patient and within 2 days I will be totally

recovered. Nevertheless, as with any body malady, I cannot help but remember

that each occurrence is likely removing a little from my lifespan. OTOH, as I

more hopefully thought last time, perhaps each episode is having a positive

hormetic effect and making me stronger than ever during the in between times.

Certainly, right after I am recovered I always feel energy levels much higher

than I did before I had the malady. --Paul]

--- Ólafur Páll Ólafsson <olafurpall@...> wrote:



*snipped*



>

> As of now I am almost fully recovered. A mumps infection usually takes

> about 10-12 days to clear out. I still have a little swelling in the

> jaw area but not much. The edema and the cramps have also improved

> considerably, and I now have my energy back and am anxious to go back

> to the gym:-) I will wait for the swelling to disappear completely

> before doing that however. I have now gotten most of the blood test

> results. The blood test revealed some antibodies to the mumps virus

> which are probably from a vaccination I had against the mumps virus

> over 20 years ago. But as the doctor said some of the old mumps

> vaccines may not work so well and another blood test is needed later

> on to tell if I have mumps or not. I guess this is because it takes

> the body a while to produce new antibodies against the mumps virus and

> these will not be seen right away. Interestingly the blood test

> results did not reveal any cause for the edema and the cramps. Several

> electrolytes were tested along with some markers of kidney function

> but all of these were fine. Because I was vaccinated against mumps

> when I was younger and because I also have edema and cramps which are

> not symptoms of a mumps infection the doctor is not completely

> convinced that I have mumps infection. Therefore, just as a

> precaution, he sent me to a chest x-ray this Friday to see if I have

> an enlarged heart and also to check if I have a benign lung tumor as

> both of these could be the cause of the edema. The same day I also had

> the second blood test done to screen for antibodies against the mumps

> virus. The results of that test will reveal for sure if I truly have

> mumps infection or not. I have yet to receive the results of these

> tests but should receive them this week. I'm hoping that whatever is

> causing the edema and the cramps will disappear as I recover from this

> illness and so far it looks good, as the edema and cramps have improved

> considerably as I've been recovering.



Very glad to hear you are doing better. Hope you don't have this problem in

the future.



*snipped*



> [Welcome to the club of those who periodically have strange undiagnosable

> maladies. The worst part about mine is that it will just not seem to stop

> recurring an average of 3-4 times per year. Each episode is now not really

> any great trouble because I know so well what is happening, exactly what its

> stages are, and that I just have to be patient and within 2 days I will be

> totally recovered. Nevertheless, as with any body malady, I cannot help but

> remember that each occurrence is likely removing a little from my lifespan.

> OTOH, as I more hopefully thought last time, perhaps each episode is having

> a positive hormetic effect and making me stronger than ever during the in

> between times. Certainly, right after I am recovered I always feel energy

> levels much higher than I did before I had the malady. --Paul]

>



Now here is a club I hope never to be a member of in the future.



Erich



[It should also be noted that as I enter my 70th year (I just turned 69

yesterday), I appear to be aging at a very slow rate (no discernible aging rate

at all), have no major disabilities of any kind (except the nuisance of

presbyopia, no worse in the past 6 years) and have as much energy both mentally

and physically as I ever did. The major positive factor in this malady is that

it does not appear to have any chronic effects. Because of this, it could well

have hormetic benefits and I was not being facetious above when I said that.



My major concern is whether or not it is having some exhausting effect on my

immune stem cell system. But since I almost never get any *other* maladies

(colds, flu, etc) perhaps my immune stem cells are holding up quite well also.

It is also possible that my immune system is not reacting to this malady in the

same manner that it does to most other maladies. This could be why I cannot seem

to prevent the re-occurrence, which is definitely not an external reinfection,

but more like a reemergence of something which is hiding in my left leg and

building its strength (and toxins) between episodes. I have wondered whether or

not it would disappear if I amputated my left leg just below the knee (the only

part that ever gets swollen and red, though there is almost always a red streak

up the inside of my leg extending to the also swollen left inguinal lymph node)

- and sometimes I have felt that it might even be best to do that (if I knew

that it would eliminate the recurrent malady), but I have always quickly

dismissed such a thought, since it would only be best for life span and not for

life quality.



I have also tried hard to correlate its onset with other factors in my life at

the time, but have had no success at all. This also puzzles me greatly because

one of my axioms of reality (at least of macroscopic reality) is that every

event is caused in some manner, so I continue to try to find correlations. If it

were even a definite period, that would make some sense, but the time between

has varied from as short as two weeks (but then the second one was milder) to as

long as 6 months (when I hoped it had finally gone away). --Paul]

<snip>

>[It should also be noted that as I enter my 70th year (I just turned 69

>yesterday), I appear to be aging at a very slow rate (no discernible aging

>rate at all), have no major disabilities of any kind (except the nuisance

>of presbyopia, no worse in the past 6 years) and have as much energy both

>mentally and physically as I ever did. The major positive factor in this

>malady is that it does not appear to have any chronic effects. Because of

>this, it could well have hormetic benefits and I was not being facetious

>above when I said that.

>

>My major concern is whether or not it is having some exhausting effect on

>my immune stem cell system. But since I almost never get any *other*

>maladies (colds, flu, etc) perhaps my immune stem cells are holding up

>quite well also. It is also possible that my immune system is not reacting

>to this malady in the same manner that it does to most other maladies. This

>could be why I cannot seem to prevent the re-occurrence, which is

>definitely not an external reinfection, but more like a reemergence of

>something which is hiding in my left leg and building its strength (and

>toxins) between episodes. I have wondered whether or not it would disappear

>if I amputated my left leg just below the knee (the only part that ever

>gets swollen and red, though there is almost always a red streak up the

>inside of my leg extending to the also swollen left inguinal lymph node) -

>and sometimes I have felt that it might even be best to do that (if I knew

>that it would eliminate the recurrent malady), but I have always quickly

>dismissed such a thought, since it would only be best for life span and not

>for life quality.

>

>I have also tried hard to correlate its onset with other factors in my life

>at the time, but have had no success at all. This also puzzles me greatly

>because one of my axioms of reality (at least of macroscopic reality) is

>that every event is caused in some manner, so I continue to try to find

>correlations. If it were even a definite period, that would make some

>sense, but the time between has varied from as short as two weeks (but then

>the second one was milder) to as long as 6 months (when I hoped it had

>finally gone away). --Paul].



Just a stab in the dark:

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00609.html



Could it be symptoms characteristic of "Lymphedema" that spring up in that

leg every time your body goes after some small intruder.  Perhaps that

initial toe/blood infection could have caused some sort of lasting damage to

the lymph nodes in that leg.    Just a guess.  I don't know where the chills

and mental confusion would come in though.  Have you noticed any infections

going around at the same times you have these episodes?



Regards,

Rob Rolen



[Hi Robert,



The lymphatic circulation is definitely involved in whatever Paul gets (or

surfaces) periodically. If the symptoms were longstanding (chronic), it would be

reasonable to consider it the typical lymphedema addressed in the article you

linked. However, these symptoms he described are *completely* gone in 4 days,

and are only maximum for about 24 hours. There is *no* residual swelling or

redness.



The symptoms for the past 2 years have been of such short duration that even if

we had confidence in a particular physician, they would most likely be gone

before Paul could even be seen. As he described, the doctor in Toronto who saw

him twice back in 2000 and 2001 (after the initial worst episodes) couldn't

figure it out and seemed to lose interest. **Kitty]



[The initial chills (lasting typically less than 2 hours and during which I

either pile on blankets and more socks or get into a hot bath) and the mental

state during that phase (I would not really call it "confusion", but I don't

really know how to label it) are almost certainly caused by a toxin of some

kind. During the chills phase there is also an enormous restlessness of all body

parts (I thrash around in bed) and extreme negative sensitivity to noise, touch

and other stimuli (except that I can relax somewhat in a hot bath). After that a

fever (which is easily controlled by aspirin) sets in for 3-4 hours and during

and after that time I can sleep comfortably (which I do). After a total of about

12 hours (depending on the time of day that it began (usually early morning or

late afternoon) I am able to get up and have a little food. Usually I then go

back to bed and sleep some more. Less than 24 hours after the initial symptoms

(one of the first of which is the swollen left inguinal lymph node), all

symptoms are gone except residual swelling and redness in the left foot and

ankle. Over the next 3-4 days this redness subsides and the swelling cycles with

the time that I spent not lying down. Ie the swelling is least after sleep and

greatest at the end of the day. When things were worse, I used to work with my

left foot up on the desk top to reduce the swelling, but I seldom do that any

more. After 4-5 days at most (recently), all left foot swelling and redness are

gone.



There has been no infection of anyone else going around at the same time and

this also would not make much sense since I really physically interface with

very few people. In addition the episodes can happen when I have not been in

anyway near anyone but Kitty for many days.



What I need to find is some curious young doctor/scientist who would take my

case as a challenge to find out just what is causing it, but this kind of person

seems to be a vanishing breed.



The possibility of an initiating toe infection (from a badly damaged left big

toenail) was just that (a hypothesis). There was never any proof that such

occurred and there was no real infective difference between the left foot and

the right foot or any other part of my body where I periodically get cuts and

abrasions due to an active lifestyle. Besides, the damaged left large toenail

(which had been damaged several times before from dancing) was damaged many

months before the first episode.



Actually the most event correlation with the onset of this malady (which began

at the end of a Toronto winter when I had little contact with other people and

none with the countryside of insects, ticks, etc) was the first (and an

intimate) visit in January by a stranger from a remote area with highly

different flora and fauna and endemic diseases (I am of course speaking of Kitty

here). I have always thought that the most likely source of this disease was

something that Kitty brought from Arizona, but of course this is entirely

correlational. In addition, I hasten to add that I attach no blame whatever and

furthermore I would still have wanted this visit to happen even though if the

disease were 10 times more intense and more frequent. --Paul]



[Robert, your link did prompt me to do another PubMed search using words

transient and lymphedema; we hadn't done one in probably 3 years. There was one

paper that came the closest (though far from identical) to describing the

symptoms Paul has experienced. Conveniently the full paper is free online:

"NATURAL COURSE OF LYMPHATIC FILARIASIS: INSIGHTS FROM EPIDEMIOLOGY,

EXPERIMENTAL HUMAN INFECTIONS, AND CLINICAL OBSERVATIONS" -

http://www.ajtmh.org/cgi/content/full/73/6/995

The wording on constitutional symptoms is somewhat confusing and Paul has

emailed the author for clarification and added information about his own

symptoms. We'll update on any worthwhile response. **Kitty]