> On 06:13 p.m. 30/01/03 +0000, Riso wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I see from your website (his and her regimen) that you use powders.
> I have ordered some powders in the past (from BAC also) but had
> some problems.
>
> The worst was with a bottle of siberian ginseng (besides, I did not
> like the product from this source, felt no effect compared to other
> brands).
>
> [Siberian "ginseng" is a completely different plant
>(eleutherococcus senticosus) and is not a member of the true
> ginseng family (panax) at all, but only a distant relative. Its
> chemical makeup, properties and effects are quite different. For
> example, it contains no ginsenosides (active and beneficial
> chemicals found in the panax species) at all. It is unfortunate that
> it has ever been called by the same common name. This is not to
> say that the Siberian herb is not also beneficial, only that it is quite
> different and the two should not be thought of as the same herb. --Paul]

Very true. I have tried many ginseng types (panax or red korean,
white korean, siberian, american) and they all feel different. As it is
said, siberian is more mental stimulant and less hot (body stimulant)
than korean. In this case BAC compared to another brand was
too bad for my like. It also was dark, like toasted, must be another
way to prepare it. BAC import many herbs from china (siberian,
rhodiola, which is not always the best source).

> After some time (months maybe) the powder turn solid as
> a rock. Now I have some Rhodiola powder becoming hard.
>
> I kept the powders in their original bottle and tightly closed. Is
> this problem due to ambient humidity when I opened the bottle to
> serve or something like impurities?.
>
> [The plastic containers that virtually all supplement powders
> come in are *not* moisture proof; they are thick walled
> polyethylene.

You mean moisture pass through the closed bottle? wow i did not
think of that, thanks.

[Don't forget that water is a pretty small molecule. However, the containers
also will expand and contract with temperature variations and this will also
allow air from outside containing moisture to get inside. --Paul]


> (Twin Lab products are an exception among the common
> suppliers in that they use glass almost exclusively.) The nutrient
> supplement powder that we use currently that has a tendency to
> become hard in the container is RNA from LEF. However, I just
> break it up a bit in the original container and pour it into a tared
> collector on the gram scale prior to adding it to the mixing bowl.
> (See http://morelife.org/practiceindex.html scroll down to
> Supplements and follow link under Mixing Powders.)
>
> We are getting a bit more moisture in the RNA with it in this
> condition, but we do not think it is significant since we use
> containers rather quickly and they are not in really high humidity
> environments.

here is a very high humidity environment

>It is the moisture passing through the walls of the container that
> is the "problem", not the air left in the container.
>
> I could (and probably will since you have prompted me with this
> question) add a descicant pillow pak to the original container of
> RNA to reduce the amount of moisture being collected. (This is
> already done with certain research chemicals.) You should be
> able to obtain these in small quantities from a science hobby
> supply or you could search online for a source to meet your
> needs. (If you find ones, others may be interested and you are
> invited to post a link.)

Many brands come with a descicant pillow pack:

Source Naturals (I canīt access the website now, seems to be down)
The pack reads:
Pillow Pak, (sic, pak not pack)
Desiccare Inc
1 888 932 0405
800 446 6650

The Vitamin Shoppe
multiform desiccant inc Buffalo NY 14213

sorb-it
united desiccants

Other
Silica gel

The Vitamin Shoppe sells many containers, like brand VitaMinder
the website must be somethig like www.vitaminshoppe.com
also vitaminder ha a website I think, I used t have a pocket pill
case I lost.


>
> Another solution would be to transfer your hygroscopic powder
> to a similar size glass jar, with rubber sealable lid, as soon as you
> begin to use it (or ASAP, if you have purchased a large number of
> them). Also, you could store your original containers of these
> powders in an airtight storage container just large enough for
> them. (A vacuum sealing thick walled plastic bag as advertised on
> an infomercial I saw while recuperating a week ago should also
> do the job. I had been thinking of other ways this gadget could
> be used for us personally besides food storage, and now your
> question has suggested one. I don't know that we will buy one,
> but if someone else does, I'd be interested in knowing how it
> works for this "problem". I would suggest that the original
> polyethylene bottle(s) be placed in the this manufacturer's bag
> which is then evacuated and sealed. Supposedly the bag can be
> cut open and resealed as necessary several times, until it is too
> short for the purpose. The URL:
> http://www.tilia.com/buy_foodsaver_tv.cfm if you're curious.)
> **Kitty]

looks expensive, are the bags moisture proof?.

[Actually, I thought it would be more than the $130 it's going for, considering
its many uses.
Yes, the bags are listed as moisture and air proof ("FDA approved", for whatever
that might mean) which from the description would be thick polypropylene. They
were stated to be the same as used in commercial food packaging - like the meat
and fish seen in the frozen food sections of supermarkets; no freezer burn. The
infomercial specifically showed brown sugar stored many months this way which
was still nice and soft. Most everyone in typical climates has a problem
keeping it from getting hard as rock.
No, I'm not getting any commision for their product sales ;>) It just looked
like a good way of keeping moisture out or in, as required. **Kitty]

An alternative could be, based in your idea, to put the original
plastic bottle in a bigger glass jar with good seal and add some
desiccant packs or just desiccant powder (the special ones or just
some Mg chloride which is highly hygroscopic . What do you
think?. A problem if you have too many bottles...

[If you have *large* pickle jars or similar glass containers, this could work
for small and medium sized polyethylene bottles containing hygroscopic
supplements. Adding loose desiccant would not be a problem since it would be on
the outside of the supplement containers - just wipe them clean before using
them. **Kitty]

>
> I tried to dissolve the siberian ginseng wth alcohol but it is
> impossible.
>
> Any recommendation appreciated.
>
> [Just break up any hardened powder

this one looks like pavement LOL

Watch out your Rhodiola...

[I was trying to remember if I had this problem when we used Rhodiola in powder
form; could be. Whenever I've run into this problem I've just used the tip of a
knife and firmly hammered cracks into the "pavement-like" substance in the
container and then poured out the broken pieces into the weighing container.
After that came the grinding described. **Kitty]

>in a mortar with a pestle (obtainable in a science hobby or
> kitchen supply store), weigh out the amount you need (a gram
> scale is strongly recommended for supplement powder users), and
> sift it into the other powders you are mixing for use. (Again, see
> http://morelife.org/practiceindex.html scroll down to Supplements
> and follow link under Mixing Powders - see section above for link
> to scale sources.)

ok

>
> I can't comment specifically on siberian ginseng since we don't
> use it, but I would expect that like most herbs it is water soluble.
> The fact that it got hard with humidity indicates that this is so.

oh I should have thought of more humidity and not adding alcohol
but water instead.

I was afraid something was bad with the product, like increased
fungus of some type due to the humidity or else.


> In contrast, R-alpha lipoic acid is *not* water soluble at all and
> needs no descicant in its storage container. **Kitty]
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Riso.
[You're welcome ;>) **Kitty]