Hi Kitty,

There are some other things I really like about dancing vs. many
other exercises:
Fun - Not that tennis and such can not be fun too but, on average,
dancing is more fun.
Sociable - Having friends in our lives is arguably more important
for our health than most other things. Dancing is one of the more
sociable exercises one can do.
Silly - yes, silly! I love playing dress-up and just acting goofy.
Dancing is so much less serious than many sports.
Non competitive - I've won state level championships in three sports
over the years (running, kayaking and windsurfing) and have a
competitive personality. Possibly a good thing when young but as I
age I find winning more difficult and my motivation waning to
exercise. I see many people beat this by competing in ever narrower
categories but I'd rather not worry about winning so much and just
enjoy things. While I realize someone will find a way to compete in
nearly any human activity, to include dancing, on average dancing is
a lot less competitive than most physical activities.

[Fun is at the top of my list of desirable characteristics about dancing too.
While I enjoy doing it anytime if the music is good, the presence of others
makes it more enjoyable - adds to the fun of it when they too are enjoying the
music. There are places where we dress up and others that are quite casual; it's
the quality of the music and the crowd that determines the amount of fun we
have.
On the competition point, I really like to watch good dancers - of any age -
whether just out for fun like us, or on TV in a formal competition. (We also
enjoy dance productions, mostly on DVD or occassionally TV.) Paul and I derive
added pleasure from the fact that others enjoy watching us dance and sometimes
just join in with us. This past Wednesday was our second time to the CBNC
(formerly known as the Coyote Bay Night Club) in Scottsdale AZ that has one
night a week (usually Thursdays) with the one local radio station that plays
mostly high energy dance music. (KNRJ, 92.7 and 101.1fm - It was a real pleasant
surprise to us to find this station as we headed south from Flagstaff on the
last leg of our drive from Toronto.) So when a couple enthusiastically joined in
with us it was lots of fun. The young fellow was good naturedly trying to keep
up with me and had borrowed my Santa cap as we bounced and pranced around the
floor. I couldn't help but smile widely and even laugh out loud at his antics,
which didn't offend him at all. There wasn't any "competition" in the sense of
"I'm going to beat or be better than you", but more like "hey, have you seen
this move?" or "can you do this?" Neither he nor the young lady lasted very
long but gave us big waves about an hour later when Paul and I left for the
night. We look forward to seeing them and others we've now seen twice. **Kitty]

[I want to slip in a remark about interhuman competition here about which I have
written about before on this group and on the MoreLife website. I view
interpersonal competition as generally negative for the following reasons:
The concept of winning also involves the concept of someone else losing. In
other words, a significant portion of the effect of the activity is negative
(harmful to happiness) for one or more people involved. The major reason for
this is of course that such sports and even many games were originally
surrogates or training for actual fights where there was full intent to harm
one's opponent.
Note that I said "a significant portion" because for most current sports and
games there is value in the activity itself whether one wins or losses. The
amount of such value varies both with the person and the sport or game, but for
some people this can even be true for such negative sum games as lotteries. (A
zero sum game is one where the total value gains of the winners equals the total
value loss of the losers.)
Now my objection to all such competitive sports and games as they are normally
played is that they are not realistic of what needs to be done by humans in
order to mold reality and to thereby jointly and cooperatively increase the
lifetime happiness of the participants. One could say that the purpose of humans
is to "win" against reality in the "game" of life promotion. However, that
viewpoint suggests a malevolent reality (just like "the cruel sea") which I
think is both supernaturalistic, conveying purposes to reality as it does, and
is also unduly pessimisitic. Thus, in my view it would be far better to do such
activities in a cooperative manner which aims at some kind of joint goal from
which all participants can gain value. Kitty and I have done this with our
Scrabble playing (see
http://morelife.org/personal/kittyreflects/kiton010615.html and referred to in
http://morelife.org/personal/health/physacts.html#mental ) and I think that it
can be done with many sports and games. I think that some kind of scoring method
could be devised so that tennis, for example, would lend itself to this kind of
joint goal and yet remain as dynamic as it is. --Paul]


I see only a few problems with dancing:

Involves more social coordination than many activities. It is a lot
easier to hop on my bike and go riding than to coordinate everyone's
schedules to get together to go dancing.
Can eat up a lot of time. By the time one gets dressed, drives
somewhere, etc. you can eat up a whole evening vs. less than an hour
for other exercise activities.
Lot's of smoke exposure. Not always the case but the norm for
dancing arenas is lots of smokers.

Toni

[Dancing in the places that Paul and I have found and frequent does not even
require that one go *with* anyone. I've seen plenty of women and men go totally
by themselves, sometimes meeting up with others they possibly know from
elsewhere or maybe just from the club itself. But it's not uncommon to see
solitary men and women there just to dance.
We see plenty of the same people and acknowledge them, occasionally with a brief
conversation - if the noise level permits.

Taking time can be a problem, especially if the dance clubs are not nearby. This
is the situation definitely here in our location in AZ. It takes us 45 minutes
to drive to Scottsdale and another 30 to 45 mins to prepare before if that's the
only thing we are doing. (On our first visit to CBNC, we had done numerous
errands earlier in the afternoon and ate about 7:30. We had brought our dance
clothes in the car and then changed before 8:30. We had 2 more quick stops to
make at Trader Joe's and Whole Foods before both closed at 9:00 and then were
able to be at the club by 9:15pm.) While right now only 1 night of club dancing
is available to us, we do a lot of dancing around the house. Whenever the music
on the radio (KNRJ) is good and mood strikes, we just stop what we're doing and
DANCE!

I defintely agree with you regarding the problems of high smoke exposure in some
dance clubs. I was pleased to find that the CBNC is well ventilated and does not
allow drinking or smoking on the dance floor. The crowds we've seen so far have
been rather small so there has been no noticeable smoke in the club at all. This
is not the case in some of the clubs in Toronto, especially those in older
buildings and even moreso in those that are smaller with lower ceilings. The
other problem there is that too many club managers will not enforce rules
keeping smoking (and drinking) off of the dance floor. Unbelievably, there is a
view held by some in the "hospitality industry" that those who drink and smoke
will go elsewhere if they are not permitted to indulge in both while on the
dance floor. (I found this expressed in posts to a very large music/dance club
oriented message board in Toronto; I got into discussion on the subject w/ one
very verbose head bouncer.) So when I was reminded Wednesday night at CNBC that
drinks must be "off the black [as well as lighted] floor", I wasn't at all
offended. Even though the area where Paul and I had momentarily retreated for a
sip of water was free of other dancers, I told the bouncer that it was a good
rule. The floor there is clearly marked - dance floor is black wood or raised
lighted plastic with the remainder of the club carpeted. I would sure like to
see distinct floor coloring/design for dance area and "other activities"
(standing, drinking, smoking, eating, etc.) at other clubs *and* see the rules
politely but firmly enforced.

[This boorish Toronto behavior is even stranger to me, since even in a large
club in Riverside, CA (right next to LA) which I frequented for many years no
smoking or drinking on the dance floor was permitted. --Paul]

One way we've avoided the worst of the smoke in Toronto is to go to the clubs a
bit before the crowds start (what time this is depends on the club and the day
of the week). This way we also get to start off with a clean dance floor and
lots of space.

Dancing is fun and can be enjoyed at home in-between "formal" outings. (I often
bounce away as I type away at the computer. I've even done some in a restrained
manner in the grocery stores when the background music was really bouncy ;>) One
Cuban restaurant that we frequent in Toronto has such dancable music that we
danced there around the tables one day when it was practically empty, and Paul
always dances (I'm a bit more restrained) at street fairs when the music is
good. So, eveyone else who isn't yet doing it - get out there and shake your
bootie...:>) **Kitty]