--- In morelife@yahoogroups.com, "David Thomas Jackemeyer"
<Olehenry1@...> wrote:
>
> "David Thomas Jackemeyer" <Olehenry1@> wrote:

<snip>

> >I have not found good information answering this concern of mine:
> >Whether having 4 oz of red wine (no other intake) just before
> >bedtime (9:00pm) would negate the positive effects of:
> >1) the fasting period
> >
> > [Definitely yes. 4oz of red wine (even totally dry) would contain
> >about 100 calories, which is not insignificant and will negate many
> >of the beneficial effects of the fast for a short period. Intake of
> >wine during the fasting period will also enhance the potential
> >negative dietary effects of the alcohol in the wine. --Paul]
>
> OK. Since 10% of the calories in my Merlot wine are from sugar, the
> remainder from alcohol, I had thought possibly my blood glucose levels
> remain stable while the liver took care of metabolizing the alcohol.

I am not sure how you got the idea that the liver's act of
metabolizing the alcohol would somehow keep the blood sugar stable.
Anyways, drinking one 4oz glass of red wine (containing approximately
100 calories of which 10% are sugar) in a fasting state will likely
not cause any significant increase in your blood sugar for two
reasons. First of all 10% of 100 calories only amounts to about 2,5g
of sugar. This is hardly a significant amount and will at most cause a
very small rise in your blood sugar unless it were absorbed extremely
fast. Second of all alcohol ingestion reduces gluconeogenesis in
humans http://pmid.us/9815011 which could result in a slight decrease
in blood sugar. In a fasted state the main way in which the body keeps
the blood sugar stable is by releasing glucose from the liver to the
bloodstream (the kidneys to a smaller extent also contribute to the
release of glucose into the blood during fasting). This glucose comes
from glycogenolysis (the breakdown of glycogen) and from
gluconeogenesis (synthesis of glucose from non-carbohydrade
precursors, mainly amino acids) in the liver. After several hours of
fasting the liver's glycogen stores start getting depleted resulting
in gluconeogenesis becoming the dominant source of glucose. Thus in a
fasted state the liver constantly produces glucose to keep the blood
glucose from dropping too low. While the effect of a glass of wine on
gluconeogenesis won't be large it might just be large enough to offset
the slight increase in glucose caused by the small amount of sugar in
the wine causing the net effect to be that your blood sugar does not
rise at all. But even if the blood sugar would not change at all upon
drinking the glass of wine the slight inhibition of gluconeogenesis
will in itself negatively effect the benefits of the fasting
temporarily. This is because the increase in breakdown and
recycling of the body's protein gluconeogenesis demands is one of the
benefits of fasting.

> You mention intake of alcohol during fasting enhances the potential
> negatives, above the impact sustained when drinking with foods -- how
> much worse would you predict?

This is not a simple question to answer because it depends on several
factors including of course the dose of the alcohol. Also the timing
of the alcohol intake will effect its positive effects as well as its
negative effects. With respect to the positive effects evidence
suggests that some of the beneficial effects of moderate alcohol
consumption are caused by a hormetic effect. This is among others
supported by the J shaped curve that relates alcohol intake to
mortality. To get the hormetic benefit the dose consumed must be large
enough to cause a stress response. But if the dose is too large the
harm will be more than the benefit from the stress response. This is
why alcohol is only beneficial in moderation. Epidemiological studies
suggest that somewhere around 10-40g of alcohol a day is the optimal
dose for reduction in mortality (full text of PMID: 15006414). Note
that the stress on the body from drinking a dose of alcohol spread
over the day will be less than the stress of consuming it all in one
dose. Thus 10g of alcohol might be enough to cause a beneficial
hormetic response if drunken in a single dose while it may not be
enough to cause such a response if one were to consume it in several
small doses over the day, such as when spreading it over three meals.
On the other hand 40g of alcohol is most likely enough to cause a
beneficial hormetic response even if spread over the day. But taking
40g all at once would probably cause a stress response that is
considerably higher than that needed to cause the beneficial hormetic
response and might be high enough for the harmful effects to outweigh
the beneficial ones. These numbers of course are just estimates and
will be very individual. But note that drinking alcohol with a meal
does spread the dose considerably compared to drinking it on a fasting
stomach since the meal will slow down its absorption.

I think that generally, as long as the dose of alcohol is lower to
compensate for it being less spread through out the day, drinking wine
in a fasting state will not be more negative than taking it with a
meal. But this is without taking into account the potential of the
wine to disturb the fast by increasing glucose and reducing
gluconeogenesis. That effect alone, even though it will only wary for
a short time, is a good enough reason for me to think that in your
case drinking the wine with or right after the meal will be more
beneficial than drinking it later in the day when you are in a fasted
state. As Paul mentioned the potential of the wine to interrupt
important sleep processes is yet another reason not to drink it before
you go to sleep. In conclusion I agree with Paul's advice that it
would be better for you to drink the wine with the meal or right after
eating it.

> [I am away on a trip right now without access to all my research
> "tools" so I cannot easily give any answer to this at the moment.
> However, I will later plan to do some work on the metabolism of
> alcohol and get back to this thread with information on it. OTOH, if
> Olafur reads this message, perhaps he could answer and save me the
> effort. --Paul]

Sure Paul. This subject wasn't exactly of much interest to me since I
myself do not drink alcoholic beverages, nor do I plan to in part
because I dislike their taste. But I'm always glad to save you some of
the effort.

[Thanks. I think there is still some more that needs to be stated about the
metabolism of alcohol, but I will look into it when I get back home. --Paul]


BTW I did not know you guys were on a trip. It probably explains why I
haven't heard from you in a while. I hope you have a nice trip.

[The trip is a one week stay in Toledo for the main purpose of receiving,
getting tested and distributing a recent joint bulk purchase of pure
trans-resveratrol which we were coordinating. A secondary purpose was to receive
and transport back to Canada a 3 months supply of supplements from LEF. A third
reason for specifically doing this in Toledo (besides its being close to the
Canadian border where we reside from May to October) has been to visit our new
friend Steve Floyd, who is a poster to this group. We've also taken the
opportunity to get our regular service to the car and are enjoying some very
nice walks - including in 2, so far, of several park preserves in the greater
Toledo area. (Spied 7 wild white tail deer, including one mother and spotted
fawn, in this "metropolitan" area.) We will be returning to Harcourt Park on
Monday. --Paul]