--- In morelife@yahoogroups.com, "chipdouglas3" <dheasulfate@...> wrote:
>
> This is an article I bumped into yesterday, while searching for
> safety concerns of I3C/DIM over the long term :
> http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/ss06/indole.html
>
> Since I'd started taking 100-200 mg of I3C/day, and know how I3C/DIM
> work, it became obvious that saftety might become an issue, at least
> long term.
>
> Reason I'm posting this is :
>
> 1. I see Paul and Kitty take an LEF supplement containing both DIM
> and I3C, however it's part of a multi-ingredients formula called :
> Dual-action cruciferous vegetable extract with Cat's claw. Item 57
> on Paul's supplements regimen spreadsheet.
>
> 2. While Paul and Kitty are taking I3C/DIM, although the amount of
> I3C is higher than it's metabolite DIM. I know that Paul wouldn't
> take anything he assess could harm his or Kitty's health. However,
> after reading the above article from what I think is a reliable
> source, I'm concerned about I3C's long term effects on potentially
> causing cancer.
>
> After you read the article, you'll see why. So my question is self-
> evident ; it has to do with the long term use of either or both
> I3C/DIM.
>
> Marc Boucher
> Riviere-du-Loup
> Quebec, Canada.

Thanks for the information, Marc. I was not aware of any such negative
effects of I3C and DIM at reasonable dosages. However, the LEF product
969, Dual-Action Cruciferous Vegetable Extract With Resveratrol &
Cat's Claw, that we take containing these ingredients does state that
only 1 or 2 should be taken depending on the weight of the person.
Being light weight, both Kitty and I only take one capsule daily
containing only 14 mg of DIM and 80 mg of I3C directly, but a little
more may come from the broccoli extract also included.

As for the article to which you link, although it is not a published
study, it is written by a scientist at the Linus Pauling Institute (as
part of their newsletter) and is based on studies, which are either
published in journals or are likely to be so soon. Therefore, I give
full credibility to the contents of the article. That having been
established however, I still find the article to be somewhat confusing
and perhaps even misleading since if what the article maintains is
true (that DIM and I3C can be cancer promoting when taken *after* the
initial cancer causing insult), then all the studies showing that they
(and all cruciferous vegetables) inhibit and prevent cancer would be
invalidated. The reason for this is that all people very likely have
some cancerous cells by the time they are 50 and it is only a matter
of those cells beginning uncontrolled growth in order for frank cancer
to become a problem. In fact, the reason why mice die of cancer more
so than larger animals is thought to be simply because the cells do
not have to multiply nearly as much in such a small animal to cause a
problem (cell size is essentially that same in all animals with
similar cells, so definitely in all mammals). IOW, a cancerous growth
that will not even be noticeable in a human can easily be large enough
to kill a mouse.

I also think the article is erring in attempting to extrapolate the
relatively larges dosages of I3C/DIM (24 and 78 mg/kg/day) used in the
studies of trout livers, to smaller doses in humans and with respect
to other tissue types. In their gene expression tests they also
compare the effects of DIM with that of estradiol. However, estradiol
is not a direct cancer causing agent and most certainly all humans
(who all make estradiol) do not have cancers being promoted by
estradiol. Therefore, if this information is applicable to humans at
all, I think it is only relevant for those people who already have an
estradiol sensitive cancer.

The end result is that this information will not cause me to change my
current use of DIM and I3C, but it will ensure that I do not increase
my dosage.

--Paul


[The spreadsheet Marc referred to on which he found the ingredients of the many
single and multiple ingredient items we take is available from Note 5 on both
our regimen sheets - http://morelife.org/personal/health/his-regimen.html and
http://morelife.org/personal/health/her-regimen.html **Kitty]