Having problems with message search?
I corrected the MMM photo gallery links in the forwarded email below.
Here are the corrected MMM photo and poster gallery links. Click:
http://gallery.encod.org/mmm and
http://gallery.encod.org/mmm/viewer.php?albid=510&stage=2
Here are the corrected MMM photo and poster gallery links. Click:
http://gallery.encod.org/mmm and
http://gallery.encod.org/mmm/viewer.php?albid=510&stage=2
Or go to this other MMM photo and poster gallery. Click:
http://gallery.marihemp.com/mmm
Dana Beal <dana@...> wrote:
http://gallery.marihemp.com/mmm
Dana Beal <dana@...> wrote:
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 21:50:57 -0500
From: Dana Beal <dana@...>
Subject: ``GMM 2005 #13: Peter Cohen Flees Ibo-Debate!; Nicosia,
Sacramento Make 142 Cities on Global Marijuana March May 7, 2005!
Important: get your city on the list for the Global Marijuana March, May 7, 2005!So far we have confirmed 142 cities:AlbanyAlbuquerqueAmsterdamAntwerpAshevilleAthabascaAthensAtlantaAucklandBskersfieldBasel
BernBiel/BienneBergenBerlinBirminghamBooneBoulderBristolBudapestBuenos AiresBurlingtonCapetownCheltenhamChicagoChicoChristchurchCincinnatiClevelandColorado SpringsColumbiaColumbusDarwinDes MoinesDetroitDoverDublinDunedinEast LansingEau ClaireEugeneFayettevilleFlintFrankfurtFt. SmithGenevaGrass ValleyHachitaHalifaxHartfordHiloHoustonHullJerusalemKansas CityKristiansandLausanneLethbridgeLexingtonLondonLos AngelesLuganoLyonMadridMexico CityMinneapolisMissoulaMontrealMoscowNashvilleNewarkNew OrleansNew PaltzNew YorkNicosia/ LefkosiaNimbinOgdenOrlandoOsakaOsloOuluPaiaParisPeoriaPhiladelphiaPhoenixPortlandPortlandPotsdamPragueRaleighRapid CityRenoRichmondRineyvilleRoanokeRomeRosarioRostockSacramentoSalemSan AntonioSan FranciscoSan MarcosSanta BarbaraSanta CruzSapporoSarasotaSavannahSionSpokaneStavangerStevens PointSt. GallenSt. LouisStockholmTallahasseeTampaTel AvivThunder BayToledoTokyoTorontoTraverse CityTromsoeTrondheimTucsonTupeloTurkuTwin OaksUpper LakeVancouverViennaVisaliaWaikikiWarsawWashington, D.C.Wilkes-BarreWilmingtonWinonaWinterthurZürichThere is also some international MMM networking going on at
this CannabisCulture.com message forum:http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=current-------------------------
Million Marijuana March. Banners, posters, handbills,
flyers. From 2004 MMM. Use for 2005 MMM ideas! Adapt foryour needs! Due to software upgrade problemsonly the full-size images and full-size image downloadscurrently are working-- go here:http://gallery.encod.org/mmm/viewer.php?albid=510&stage=2
or if problems go to the home page URL:
http://gallery.encod.org/mmm
and then click on "mmm2004"and then "Banners Posters Handbills"
Many of the MMM 2004 banners, posters, flyers, and
handbills were converted from PDF files to the gif and jpg
images found here. The freeware Adobe Acrobat Reader and the
freeware IrfanView were used.
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.htmlhttp://www.irfanview.com - IrfanView is a free image editor
that is useful for adapting these flyers and banners for
your needs. Download the full-size gif images since they usefar fewer kilobytes compared to the 640x480 and 800x600 jpg
versions of the same image. JPG image files are mainly for
photos and images with lots of color gradation. GIF image
files are much better for flyers and banners. IrfanView can
easily edit, reduce, or enlarge gif and jpg images.
These flyer and banner images were found elsewhere in the
photo gallery, and by following links on the MMM 2004 city
list pages, report pages, image pages, etc.. Flyers and
banners for other MMM years can be found through the first
link below: MMM images:
http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmmimages.htm
2004 city list:
http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmm2004.htm
2004 reports:
http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmm2004rep.htm*****!!!Global Marijuana March--May 7, 2005: Updates, Reports!!!*****From: petros@...Hi Dana,
Please accept my apologies for not responding earlier this year when you wrote to me.
So far the preparations for the Global Marijuana March look good! Thank you so much for all the hard work.
Please accept this letter as confirmation that I'll be our local contact again this year for the event at our location:
City: Nicosia/ Lefkosia
Country: Republic of Cyprus
My contact information:Petros Evdokas
Cyprus IndyMedia, and Belly of the Beast Collective.
&nbs p;Address: Sofouli 16 / Ap. 207,
1096 Nicosia,
Republic of CyprusEmail : ttetpos@...and petros@... (please send to both).Event type: There's a very intense effort to silence our people through state- sponsored terror. Only semi- open, semi-underground gatherings of familiar faces are safe this year to mark the day.
Thanks again. Looking forward to one day when our people everywhere may commune with herb in Peace,
Petros---------------From: jim@...Dana, saw this on the BBC site:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4286435.stmjim
-- Jim Sutherland------------From: shane@...Statement from the Brixton Cannabis Coalition 3rd March 2005
Lambeth Council try to ban 7th annual Cannabis march and festival
The Brixton Cannabis Coalition regrets the decision taken by Lambeth
Council to ignore the agreed public events policy and try to ban the annual
Cannabis March and Festival on Saturday 7th May because of cannabis dealers
at last years Festival.
Instead of the application for a licence being taken by the relevant
licensing committees the decision has been made by Cllr Clare Whelan, Tory
Executive member for Environment and ratified by the Executive. This is
contrary to Cllr Whelan's statement to the Executive on 4th November 2004.
"If an application is received the outcome will be determined in line with
the events policy and the decision of the relevant quasi-judicial Licensing
Committee".
The Police and festival organisers were not consulted on the ban.
The Brixton Cannabis Coalition request that our application is dealt with
in the normal way. We ask supporters to sign the petition at
www.thecannabisfestival.co.uk We also acknowledge and share Council
concerns regarding cannabis dealers during the march and festival. This is
a problem for us and any large open access event in Brockwell Park.
The organisers have requested police action, as in previous years, to deter
dealers, but have ultimately no direct control over what they do or how
they prioritise the issue of dealers.
We invite Lambeth Council officers to join the Police and the Coalition to
work through these problems in a planning meeting on 11am Monday 7th March
at Frank O'Neil House, Clapham Road.
Over the last 6 years the Council have taken the Festival to court twice
for alleged minor licencing violations, both times we were found not
guilty, then doubled the cost of using the Park by charging us a commercial
price. This year the Council has not even allowed us to put our proposals
before the Licencing Committee. This is against the agreed Parks event
policy. This is political football in Lambeth.
Last year the Cannabis festival attracted only 4 public complaints, - based
on noise, 7 arrests - one for dealing and was enjoyed by many thousands of
people. We think there is a question of balance.
In a sane and tolerant society we would be consulted and recognised for
putting on a safe and free event, instead Lambeth Council have made no
attempt to overcome this problem but simply use it as a means to prohibit us.
We recognise that Cllr Whelan and the Executive may have more than
technical problems with us. We suspect their reasons may be political. We
may not fit in with their politics, their corporate, public relations
driven, glossy vision of Lambeth.
The influx of West Indians from the 50's, young urban professional clubbers
and pragmatic policing in the 90's, has given Lambeth reputation as a
progressive, culturally rich and diverse area. We are part of this
diversity.
We invite the Council to work with us and the police to overcome these
issues, however if they refuse and simply try to prohibit the march and
festival then we accuse the Executive of being intolerant of diversity.
We note the media's reaction to the Council's ban has already increased the
size of the march. Presumably people will want to do something after the
march. The question for the Executive is do they want it done licenced or
unlicenced. A bit like the sale of cannabis really.
ENDS
--------Pubdate: 26 Feb 2005
Source: New Scientist
Contact: onlinenews@...
Website: http://www.newscientist.com/
Webpage:
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/mg18524881.400*****************************************************
Psychedelic medicine: Mind bending, health giving
26 February 2005
From New Scientist Print Edition.
John Horgan
John Horgan is a freelance science writer based in Garrison, New York. His
latest book, Rational Mysticism (Mariner Books), was published in paperback
last year
JOHN HALPERN clearly remembers what made him change his mind about
psychedelic drugs. It was the early 1990s and the young medical student at a
hospital in Brooklyn, New York, was getting frustrated that he could not do
more to help the alcoholics and addicts in his care. He sounded off to an
older psychiatrist, who mentioned that LSD and related drugs had once been
considered promising treatments for addiction.
"I was so fascinated that I did all this research," Halpern recalls. "I was
reading all these papers from the 60s and going, whoa, wait a minute! How
come nobody's talking about this?"
More than a decade later, Halpern is now an associate director of substance
abuse research at Harvard University's McLean Hospital and is at the
forefront of a revival of research into psychedelic medicine. He recently
received approval from the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to give
late-stage cancer patients the psychedelic drug MDMA, also known as ecstasy.
He is also laying the groundwork for testing LSD as a treatment for dreaded
super-migraines known as cluster headaches.
And Halpern is not alone. Clinical trials of psychedelic drugs are planned
or under way at numerous centres around the world for conditions ranging
from anxiety to alcoholism. It may not be long before doctors are legally
prescribing hallucinogens for the first time in decades. "There are
medicines here that have been overlooked, that are fundamentally valuable,"
says Halpern.
These developments are a remarkable turnaround. Scientists first became
interested in psychedelic drugs - also called hallucinogens because of their
profound effect on perception - after Albert Hofmann, a chemist working for
the Swiss pharmaceutical firm Sandoz, accidentally swallowed LSD in 1943.
Hofmann's description of his experience, which he found both enchanting and
terrifying, spurred scientific interest in LSD as well as naturally
occurring compounds with similar effects: mescaline, the active ingredient
of the peyote cactus; psilocybin, found in magic mushrooms; and DMT, from
the Amazonian shamans' brew ayahuasca.
At first, many scientists called these drugs "psychotomimetics" because
their effects appeared to mimic the symptoms of schizophrenia and other
mental illnesses. However, many users rhapsodised about the life-changing
insights they achieved during their experiences, so much so that in 1957,
British psychiatrist Humphry Osmond proposed that the compounds be renamed
"psychedelic", from the Greek for "mind-revealing". The term caught on, and
psychiatrists started experimenting with the drugs as treatments for mental
illness.
By the mid-1960s, more than 1000 peer-reviewed papers had been published
describing the treatment of more than 40,000 patients for schizophrenia,
depression, alcoholism and other disorders.
A prominent member of this movement was Harvard psychologist Timothy Leary,
who among other things tested whether psilocybin and LSD could be used to
treat alcoholism and rehabilitate convicts.
Although his studies were initially well received, Leary eventually lost his
reputation - and his job - after he began touting psychedelics as a hotline
to spiritual enlightenment. Leary's antics helped trigger a backlash, and by
the late 1960s psychedelics had been outlawed in the US, Canada and Europe.
Unsurprisingly, clinical research ground to a halt, partly because obtaining
the necessary permits became much more difficult, but also because few
researchers were willing to risk their reputations studying demonised
substances.
But to some brave souls, psychedelic medicine never lost its allure. One of
them is Rick Doblin, who in 1986 founded the Multidisciplinary Association
for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) in Sarasota, Florida, and who earned adoctorate from Harvard's Kennedy School of Government after writing a
dissertation on the federal regulation of psychedelics.
For nearly 20 years MAPS has lobbied the FDA and other government agencies
to allow research on psychedelics to resume. It has also persuaded
scientists to pursue the work and raised funds to support them.
A similar body, the Heffter Research Institute in Santa Fe, New Mexico, was
founded in 1993 by scientists with an interest in hallucinogens.
In the past couple of years their efforts have begun to pay off. Doblin is
optimistic that psychedelic research is back for good, and this time it will
do things right. "This gives us the chance to show that we have learned our
lessons," he says. Halpern, too, is anxious to lay to rest the ghost of
Leary.
"That man screwed it up for so many people," he says.
With this in mind, Halpern says the first task for him and others is to
evaluate the safety of psychedelics. And they are up against an entrenched
orthodoxy: a 1971 editorial in The Journal of the American Medical
Association warned that repeated ingestion of psychedelics causes
personality deterioration. "Only a few of those who experience more than 50
'trips' are spared," it warned.
So Halpern's first big foray into psychedelic research was aimed at
risk-assessment. In the late 1990s he launched a study of members of the
Native American Church, who are permitted by US law to consume peyote.
Halpern examined 210 residents of a Navajo reservation in the south-west US,
who fell into three categories: church members who had taken peyote at least
100 times but had had little exposure to other drugs or alcohol; non-church
members who abstained from alcohol or drugs; and former alcoholics who had
been sober for at least three months.
Halpern tested the subjects' IQ, memory, reading ability and other
functions. His interim results showed that church members had no cognitive
impairment compared with the abstainers, and scored significantly better
than recovering alcoholics. Church members also reported no "flashbacks" -
sudden recurrences of a psychedelic's effects long after the initial trip.
Halpern believes this study, which he expects will be published soon, shows
that contrary to the 1971 editorial, peyote at least can be taken repeatedly
without adverse effects.
He is now conducting a similar assessment of MDMA. This drug is sometimes
called an "empathogen" because it heightens feelings of compassion and
reduces anxiety. Anecdotal reports suggest it has therapeutic potential, and
some psychiatrists used it alongside psychotherapy before it was outlawed in
1985.
However, anecdotal and scientific evidence have also linked MDMA with brain
damage, though the research is controversial.
Ecstasy impact
Judging the true impact of MDMA is complicated by the fact that users often
combine it with other drugs and alcohol. To get around this, Halpern
recruited a group of American mid-westerners who admitted taking MDMA but
said they shunned other substances. He separated them into "moderate" users,
who had consumed MDMA 22 to 50 times, and "heavy" users, who had taken it
more than 50 times.
Halpern recently reported in the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence that,
compared with controls, heavy users displayed "significant deficits" in
mental processing speed and impulsivity. Moderate users, however, had no
major problems. Halpern believes this shows that MDMA's benefits may
outweigh its risks for certain patients. And apparently the FDA and the
McLean Hospital agree, since both have approved Halpern's plan to test MDMA
as an anti-anxiety drug for a dozen late-stage cancer patients.
Halpern still needs permission from the Drug Enforcement Administration, but
he expects to begin recruiting patients soon.
He is also interested in the potential benefits of the true hallucinogens.
In 1996, he reviewed almost 100 substance abuse trials involving LSD,
psilocybin, DMT and ibogaine, an extract of the African shrub Tabernanthe
iboga. Halpern found tentative evidence that the drugs can reduce addicts'
cravings during a post-trip "afterglow" lasting for a month or two.
Exactly how this happens is something of a mystery. A popular theory is that
the benefits stem from the drugs' psychological effects, which include
profound insights and cathartic emotions, but Halpern suspects that there
may be a biochemical explanation too.
For now, however, Halpern isn't planning to pursue addiction therapy. He is
more interested in another medical use for LSD and psilocybin: treating a
debilitating condition known as cluster headaches.
These attacks appear to be caused by swelling of blood vessels in the brain
and are worse than migraines. Sufferers say the pain exceeds that of passing
a kidney stone or giving birth without anaesthetics. They affect about 3 in
every 1000 people sporadically, and 1 in 10,000 chronically. "There's a
tremendous potential need for this," says Halpern, who investigated the
problem after being approached by a patient group.
Many patients get little or no relief from painkillers, but some claim that
small doses of LSD or psilocybin can alleviate the headaches and even
prevent them from occurring.
Halpern was intrigued; LSD is chemically related to ergot, a naturally
occurring compound that constricts blood vessels, and the derivatives
ergotamine and methysergide are commonly prescribed for migraines.
Halpern and his Harvard colleague Andrew Sewell are now gathering evidence
to persuade licensing officials - and themselves - that LSD and psilocybin
merit a clinical trial. Sewell has gathered more than 60 testimonials from
cluster headache sufferers who have treated themselves with LSD or
psilocybin.
Another member of the vanguard in the psychedelic revival is Charles Grob, a
psychiatrist at the Harbor-UCLA Medical Center in Los Angeles, California,
and co-founder of the Heffter Institute.
After years struggling to get permits, Grob says he is slowly moving forward
with a study into using psilocybin to reduce distress in terminal cancer
patients. He points out that studies done in the 1960s suggested that
psychedelics can help patients come to terms with their impending death.
So far Grob has treated three patients, but he hopes to enrol more subjects
shortly.
Grob has also led several investigations like Halpern's peyote study, but
looking at ayahuasca, the DMT-rich shamanic brew. Ayahuasca often causes
nausea and diarrhoea, and its psychedelic effects can be terrifying, but
Amazonian shamans nonetheless prize it for its visionary properties.
Since 1987 it has been a legal sacrament for several churches in Brazil, the
largest of which is União Do Vegetal. UDV combines elements of Christianity
with nature worship, and claims 8000 members.
In 1996 a team led by Grob reported in the Journal of Nervous And Mental
Disease that UDV members who regularly took ayahuasca were on average
physiologically and psychologically healthier than a control group of
non-worshippers. The UDV followers also had more receptors for the
neurotransmitter serotonin, which has been linked to lower rates of
depression and other disorders.
Many of the UDV members told the scientists that ayahuasca had helped them
overcome alcoholism, drug addiction and other self-destructive behaviours.
More recently, Grob has found that adolescents who grew up participating in
ayahuasca ceremonies showed no ill effects and were less likely to engage in
crime and substance abuse than members of a control group. Of course, Grob
acknowledges that they could be benefiting from the social effects of
membership in a church as well as the effects of ayahuasca itself. Grob
plans to publish these results this year.
Several other scientists are quietly pursuing psychedelic research. Since
2001, psychiatrist Francisco Moreno of the University of Arizona in Tucson
has been testing psilocybin as a treatment for obsessive-compulsive
disorder.
Psychotherapy and antidepressants such as Prozac help many patients, but
some have such severe symptoms and are so resistant to treatment that they
turn to electroshock therapy and even brain surgery.
As with the work on cluster headaches, Moreno's study was motivated by
reports from people with OCD that psilocybin relieves their symptoms.
So far, Moreno has given both sub-psychedelic and psychedelic doses of pure
psilocybin to nine treatment-resistant OCD subjects, in a total of 29
therapy sessions. His preliminary findings suggest firstly that it is safe
to ingest psilocybin, which was a primary concern of the trial. Beyond that,
Moreno calls his results "promising", but won't discuss them further, since
he plans to submit a paper to a peer-reviewed journal this year.
Meanwhile in Charleston, South Carolina, physician Michael Mithoefer is
carrying out a MAPS-sponsored clinical trial of MDMA as a treatment for
post-traumatic stress disorder.
PTSD affects up to 20 per cent of people who experience a traumatic event,
and involves distressing symptoms such as nightmares and panic attacks.
Conventional treatments typically consist of cognitive therapy and
antidepressants, but many patients don't respond to these.
In the past year Mithoefer has given "MDMA-assisted" psychotherapy to six
treatment-resistant patients, all traumatised by violent crimes; he plans to
treat 20 patients in all.
The longest-running psychedelic therapy programme started almost 20 years
ago in Russia. Evgeny Krupitsky, a psychiatrist who heads a substance-abuse
clinic in St Petersburg, has treated more than 300 alcoholics and about 200
heroin addicts with ketamine.
Used primarily in veterinary medicine, ketamine is an anaesthetic that can
trigger an extremely disorienting hallucinogenic episode lasting an hour or
so. Krupitsky's subjects often emerge from their sessions filled with
revulsion for their past lives and determined to change.
The therapists encourage these feelings with tricks such as forcing the
subjects to sniff a bottle of vodka at the peak of their session; the
patients' disgust often persists long after the ketamine's effects have worn
off.
In one of Krupitsky's studies, 73 out of 111 alcoholics stayed dry for at
least a year after their session, compared with 24 per cent of those in a
control group. Yet his programme, which was funded by MAPS and the Heffter
Institute, was recently shut down because the Russian government tightened
restrictions on ketamine. Although Krupitsky says he and his colleagues "are
in the process of getting permission to continue", it may be several years
before research resumes.
Although disappointed by this setback, Doblin is encouraged by developments
elsewhere. He is lobbying officials in Spain and Israel to approve studies
of MDMA for PTSD, and is raising funds for a substance-abuse trial of
ibogaine outside the US together with the Heffter Institute.
MAPS has also supported Frans Vollenweider, a psychiatrist at the University
of Zurich in Switzerland, who has done basic research on the physiological
effects of psilocybin and MDMA, and hopes to begin clinical research soon.
Doblin's primary goal is to see psychedelics legally recognised as
medicines. But he also hopes that someday healthy people may take these
substances for psychological or spiritual purposes, as members of the Native
American Church and União Do Vegetal do, and as he did in his youth.
After all, drugs such as Prozac and Viagra are already prescribed not just
to heal the ill but also to enhance the lives of the healthy.
It is still an uphill struggle. Government funds for psychedelic studies are
hard to come by, and drug companies have shown absolutely no interest in
supporting the research. But there are signs that the wind is changing.
Although psychedelics are still classified in the US as schedule-1 drugs,
and so are banned for all non-research purposes, in November a US Federal
Appeals Court in Colorado ruled that a branch of the UDV based in Santa Fe,
New Mexico, could import ayahuasca for use in ceremonies.
Among the research findings cited in the court decision were Grob's studies
showing no ill effects from ayahuasca.
The Department of Justice is appealing the decision, but if the Supreme
Court denies the appeal, UDV members in the US will be able to ingest
ayahuasca legally.
Maybe, just maybe, after more than 30 years in the wilderness, this
powerful, misunderstood but potentially mind-healing class of drugs is readyto be rehabilitated.-------------From: ppp@...Heya Folks~~
Are there any artists/graphic artists/students who would
have time to lend in developing a flyer for the Philly MMM?
(Also known now as GMM, i.e. "Global Marijuana March".) I'mjust looking for something basic to hand out on South Street
and put out in coffee shops ect...I'll handle the printing
costs.
If you can help out please call me at 215-238-8966.
Peace and Solidarity!
Emlee------From: sunshine_35749@...Hello again Dana!
just wanted to LYK that I wouldn't be able to do Huntsville, AL. I can
look to see if anyone else is, and maybe i could help them, but I am
not able to figure out where these cities are, WHAT STATE?! And, like
i said last year, if i was to organize it ... i'd likely be arrested.
this is alabama... i kid you not.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE (too late this year, but maybe next?) ADD THE
STATE (AND COUNTRY) FOR THESE CITIES!!
Sincerely Dana and keep up the GREAT work!
debbiehuntsville, alabama-----------------From: ail9f5@...Hee hee hee.
Of course we are on the list! Haven't ironed out all of the wrinkles yet but makings are in the works!
Thanks for all the effort on this!Amber LangstonUniversity of MO - SSDP Pres----------------------
From: recycledquestion@...
Reply-To: RWTO@yahoogroups.com
To: RWTO@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RWTO] Help Oglala Sioux fight the DEA
I am passing this on for friends, and ask you to help as you can and to also
spread the news by passing it on as well.
In PeaceDenise
The Oglala Sioux have tried to create a sustainable agricultural
business on their reservation. Two years in a row, the DEA came in just
at harvest time and cut down the crop and took it away.
I recommend to any individual who wishes to support their efforts to be
a free, sovereign nation, to send a donation to the Oglala Sioux to
assist in covering their court costs. This is an important case of the
US government invading their territory illegally and stealing from them,
as if anyone with some historical knowledge can't find thousands of
other examples of this behavior.
For those who don't know, the Pine Ridge reservation (concentration
camp) is the poorest reservation in the nation. In the early 1970's, a
government attempt to get them to move from the reservation resulted in
almost 70 people being murdered in 3 years. Please do your part to help
the Indigenous people who owned all this land prior to our ancestors
coming and destroying their civilization.
The link to the documents, should you want to review them, are here on
the Natives Unite Web Site:
http://nativesunite.org/hemp/
If you have DSL or Cable modems, you can view some footage of the DEA
removing Alex's property from a sovereign foreign nation here, care of
Pot-TV.net:
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pottvshowse-1332.html
Send checks to the following address, made payable to Alex White Plume:
Alex White Plume
c/o Oglala Sioux Tribe
Box H
Pine Ridge, South Dakota 57770
I sent $100 to this worthy cause. The Oglala deserve the right to
self-government and to being a sovereign nation. The Controlled
Substances Act should not apply there unless their tribal council
approves it.
Viva la Resistance,Anthony Lorenzo
------------Friday, February 25, 2005 (SF Chronicle)
Regulation sought for pot clubs
Rachel Gordon
Nearly three dozen medical marijuana clubs operate in San Francisco, but
city officials have yet to regulate them. That may change.
This week, Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi requested a hearing to discuss issues
and policies related to Proposition S, the 2002 voter-approved measure
that directed the city to explore growing and distributing pot for
medicinal uses. Specifically, Mirkarimi wants the hearing to focus on
licensing medical marijuana clubs, regulating them through zoning
restrictions and setting up consumer protection guidelines. Supervisor
Bevan Dufty held a similar hearing in 2003 to look at the city's options.
"I want us to get a handle on the growing number of clubs in SanFrancisco," Mirkarimi said. "Now the city has a complete hands-off
policy."
And that may be for good reason. Growing and distributing marijuana, for
medical use or not, still isn't allowed by federal authorities and could
put the city at legal risk.
"Does Mirkarimi remember it's still 'The George Bush Show'?" remarked one
city official following the local twists and turns of medical marijuana.
Mirkarimi is well aware of the concerns, but said it's worth seeing what,
if anything, the city can do to move the issue forward. Not only does he
think it would be beneficial from a consumer standpoint to have standards
in place, but the city also may be able to cash in through licensing fees
or tapping into the distributors' profits, he said.
Tens of millions of dollars reportedly change hands in the local medical
marijuana clubs, which Mirkarimi described as a growing cottage industry.
Dial "M" for mayor: So a hacker got into the list of phone numbers stored
in celebrity Paris Hilton's cell phone and posted them on the Internet.
Included in the cache was Mayor Gavin Newsom's cell phone number -- not
that the mayor is likely to answer when it rings. Hundreds, if not
thousands, of people already have his mobile number, and he's become adept
at screening calls with a quick glance at the caller's number.
More newsworthy than his cell phone number would be if Newsom's home
number had been publicized. Unlike his predecessor, Willie Brown, Newsom's
home phone isn't listed. And he's not alone among the city's elected
officials.
Supervisors Tom Ammiano, Sean Elsbernd, Michela Alioto-Pier and Gerardo
Sandoval also keep their home numbers unlisted, though like the mayor, all
can be reached or receive messages at City Hall.
Ammiano got an unlisted home a number of years ago when he served on the
school board and received threatening calls. He never went back to listing
it, but said he doesn't think it's been a problem. Not only does he
prodigiously check his messages at the office, but "when a constituent
wants to find you, they can find you," he said, noting that he's stopped
regularly by people on the bus and in the supermarket.
The home phone numbers for Mirkarimi, Dufty and Supervisors Chris Daly,
Sophie Maxwell and Aaron Peskin can be found in the white pages. Fiona Ma
is listed, too, but calling the number sends you directly to her home fax.
Supervisor Jake McGoldrick is in the book, but under "John L. McGoldrick,"
his given name.
Peskin said he gets called at home all the time, once by a constituent
complaining about a store selling armadillo meat in Chinatown. Peskin said
he did what any good politician would do: "I dutifully called the health
department."
E-mail Rachel Gordon at rgordon@.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2005 SF Chronicle
Tripod Form Mailer <membership@...> wrote:
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 18:11:10 -0500
From: Tripod Form Mailer <membership@...>
To: tents444@...
Subject: Results From Your Form
The following data was submitted via your form:
HIMy name is Jolie Perea, I would like to organize the Marijuana March for Sacramento. We have yet to have one. Last year we tried but the person I contacted Kevin Burger(organizer the March for 04 ) needed help with the planning but we were required to get permits and insurance that we were unable to obtain due to financial reasons. This year we have a couple new Cannabis COop in town and liitle drive behind because of that I think. So, I'm going to go gor it, I think it's especially important for the State Capitol to represent, there's alot of conservatives here,though. but I know were out her to, compassionate folks. SAC just started airing on public access TV every 2nd&4thb WED.Interviwing, interfacing on medical marijuana, questioning officials about the role they play in opressing the the legalization when they lie about marijuana and users of mj. My vison is a Rally with musicians, literture tables, co OPs, speakers, poets. March at 420
ANy good advice will be greatly appreciated.
thanksJOlie
510 4678628
916 332 1747jusjazzi@...--------Hemp Bill in California<http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/0218-03.htm>--------------------------------
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From:marko@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Dana,
I wouldn't agree with you on this (which doesn't mean that I agree with
the rest of your e-mail ;-)
I've read a great book, The Great Lie, by Michael Kalopoulos, and he
demistyfies the whole lineage of patriarchs, from Abraham to Moses; and
it seems (according to the author) that the Passover started with some
"magician" tricks, continued with some exagerration, and ended with
mass poisoning of everyone who ate bread made with yeast (Egiptyans, of
course)... very interesting, because Moses forbid all his people to eat
yeast-made bread during that specific time; even more, he explicitely
told them what to eat, and in what form, and what not to eat...
Whatever the Pharaoh's magicians knew, Moses knew better, and David
Copperfield knows even better - so, it were just quite simple tricks...
I think that Iboga was not used in Egypt, but Mandragora surely was!
Another thing, about Jesus: he is Lucifer's (Satan's) twin brother
(Malcolm Godwin: Angels, An Endangered Species).
Don't ask me how or why, I'm just stating what is written ;-))
Marko
On 2/22/2005, "Dana Beal" <dana@...> wrote:
Since the alternative explanation is that Jesus wasn't just faster than
a speeding bullet, but had half his genes direct from God, I'd go with
the Passover Plot hypothesis. The Rabbis say that whatever the
Pharaoh's magicians knew, Moses knew better, so if the iboga secret wasin Egypt, the Jews took it with them back to Palestine.From:GardenRestaurant@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Marko :
You wrote :
Another thing, about Jesus: he is Lucifer's (Satan's) twin brother
(Malcolm Godwin: Angels, An Endangered Species).
LOL they are actualy four and they are in the srtaight lineage of the
Patriarch
They use use to call them The Marx Brothers :-))
God blessFrancisFrom:myeboga@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List Marko,
When you say Jesus is Lucifer's twin brother in what sense are you refering to Lucifer: as angel of light or as devil? In other words are you talking Catholic folklore about Satan as devil or are you refering to the more historically correct (?) version of Lucifer as an angel of light where for reasons of translation he became equated with the devil.Lee
From:marko@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005, The Garden wrote:
Francis,
I see you've got the point ;-)
I always liked the Marx brothers, except Karl; we were proving his
theories in Yugoslavia, and it *seems* they are not correct!MarkoFrom:myeboga@... Subject:[Ibogaine] Origins of eboga - 20,000 years att. Dana Hi Dana,
Read this from you:
You know in my book I said it was peganum harmala, which is abundant in
Palestine, and figured in the initiation rite for the Persian Emperor,
the King of Kings. Since the book was published I've become aware of
evidence that iboga may have played a similar role in Egypt, where
friezes on walls of tombs, etc. show the Pharaoh consorting with
pygmies--symbols of iboga due to their 20 thousand year association
with it throughout Africa. They're about one per cent of the population
in Rwanda and Burundi, and Iboga looks to be much more widespread than
Gabon, occurring throughout the Congo basin and up into the Rift
valley--just up the Nile from Egypt, so to speak.
Question: Can you point me to references which elaborate what you are saying here about the Rift valley, 20,000 years etc
Thanks
LeeFrom:marko@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Lee,
to be honest - I really don't know. I just wrote what is written in the
cited book, that's all. I'm quite sure you can get this book in the local
library, because it's that "family" kind of books, with lots of very good
reproductions...
I'm not an expert in angels, nor in the Bible; but one of these days I'll
get the Septaguint translation, and read it according to the data
presented in The Great Lie.
Could be really enlightening ;-)
Markofreedomroot@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
OK, I'm ploughing through the omnibus reply. And I think I'm about
two/thirds through. So I have to keep going,and digest some... and
probably go re-read some stuff, because I DO get a sense there is a
misrepresentation of the ANALogy Cohen was making. But I got to this
line, which triggered my real take-home message from the COSM FORUM,
DANA WROTE:
But heated words are not insults, nor threats. And I at least was
trying to continue the conversation, while you were keen to break it
off.
Let's keep the conversations going. I wish we had had a peace
meditation together to close down the forum. I wish we had gotten
there a *little* bit earlier both days. I wish I wish I wish...
witchy.
coalitonally yours from flushing,
rachelFrom:ptpeet@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Dana wrote about Peter Cohen's theories I take it:
Blasphemous for anyone who insists that addiction isn't really neurochemical, but a matter of social construction-- that society constructs the user as addict. Since tolerance/withdrawal/craving don't really exist, and are not deemed to vary from one substance to another, Ibogaine can't really be doing anything special, so the effect must be from mind-control by ibogaine@mindvox. Not only that, since ibogaine is more dangerous than heroin (in proper medical doses) if you chose to exaggerate its dangerousness, this particular cult is offering poison koolaid.<
Could someone please point me out a quote or comment by Peter Cohen, and also forward this note to him as I can't find his email address in my box for some reason, that says this? Is this really what Cohen has been saying? If not, what is he really saying about "addiction" in a nutshell- does it really have a physical aspect in his opinion, or is he really saying it's merely a "social construct" and that there isn't really anything to "addiction" in a physical sense at all? I haven't seen anything like this out of him, what I've seen is him saying there needs to be more focus, in his opinion, on doing away with the illegality of narcotics and the criminalizing of those who use narcotics to self-medicate or simply have fun, that it's the criminalizing that's causing so many if not most of the problems associated with drugs. He seems to me to be saying that in his opinion, focusing on "getting people off drugs" is copping out to the prohibitionist viewpoint, that it puts the users into a catagory which can then be ostrasized and attacked and locked up and basically treated like "niggers." If I'm getting this wrong, please correct me, by including some quotes of Peter Cohen's that say one thing or another about his opinions on addiction and it's "reality."Thanks. Again, please someone forward this to Peter Cohen himself. Thanks kindly.
Peace and love,Preston PeetFrom:cohen.cedro@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Preston, your summarizing of my views is quite right.Dana is not able or willing to read my stuff,nor understand it, let alone summarizing it.
About the physical side of intense and frequent drug use, of course there is a biological component.
But I do not see its relevance.
Thomas Szasz once wrote that the physical aspects of an erection do not explain falling in love with a particular woman, or men visiting prostitutes. There is a lot of biology involved in sexuality, but what types of sex are criminalised , what types of bonding society accepts or not, are totally different matters.
Of course people develop tolerance, or a longing to repeat the most wanted effects of drugs( untill they no longer count) but what does this have to do with societies activity of prohibiting some drug use behaviours?
I never speak about addiction, or possession, or bewitching, I consider them all terms from a primitive pre scientific past, that unfortunately still lingers on in the perception of many, the ibo clan included.pcFrom:GardenRestaurant@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] OT Possession and pre scientific knowledge
Peter Cohen wrote ::
I never speak about addiction, or possession, or
bewitching, I consider them all terms from a
primitive pre scientific past, that unfortunately
still lingers on in the perception of many, the
ibo clan included.
* pre scientific ? When started this amazing " Scientific Era " ??
I went to see a definition of scientific :
Definition : The principles and empirical processes of discovery and
demonstration considered characteristic of or necessary for scientific
investigation, generally involving the observation of phenomena, the
formulation of a hypothesis concerning the phenomena, experimentation to
demonstrate the truth or falseness of the hypothesis, and a conclusion that
validates or modifies the hypothesis.
OR because you have the authority to do so:
Proving an opinion to be correct
Persuading someone to accept your proof.
Persuading people that you detain the truth.
Persuading people that if they don't think like you they are sick ? Refering
here to the psychiatrist industry
Persuading people that if they suffer from an dis- ease that you don't know
, it at to be mental
Persuading people that natural remedies had no values all together with
their traditional cultures
Now show something that a scientist can see he will believe it !!. The
Scientist mind is so gullible :-). See what Proffessor Victor Weisskopf ,
physicist who studied under Niels Bohrr and worked on the A Bomb and another
atom smasher ,said about Uri Geller "the metal bender:"
"I was shocked and amazed how Mr Geller bent my office key at MIT while I
was holding it. The sturdy key kept bending in my hand; I can not explain
this phenomenon I can only assume that it could relate could relate to
quantum chromo dynamics".
Not so long ago... Uri geller at the covert page of the " New Scientist "
Few magicians including your humble " serviteur " enjoy the pleasure of
fooling very rational minds regularly.Sometime we mesmerize them .
Mesmerize from Mesmer , famous, austrian medecin who use to treat is patient
with " animal magnetism
Infornunately, theirs so called scientific approach and limitating beliefs
system stop them from investigating the Unseen. Like spirits, ghost, soul ,
Possession, God etc...
I am still looking for a scientific definition of good.
Francis
God Bless
"I don't like to write. I don't care what the fucks happens after I write"
" I don't believe in objectivity "Hunter S. ThompsonFrom:cohen.cedro@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] OT Possession and pre scientific knowledge
Francis, what I mean is that certain types of explanation are prescientific, because they use prinicples that can not be verified.
Certain terms imply forces of magic.For instance: If a gypsy passes by and 'bewitches' a child ( knoweable because the child has panic dreams each night) the 'cause ' of the childs behaviour is not a psychological reaction of the child to a fearful event, but the transport forem the gypsy towards the child of a 'force' that necesarily changes the kid until the force has been 'excorcised'. Thye childs behaviour is not a reaction understandable in principles of human behaviour, but understandable only in terms of magic.The decision about which terms are to be considered 'scientific' is in iteslef an matter of dispuite and historic development.
Addiction is a concept from the times of magic, and concveys the impact of the drug on the behaviour. It does not study the reasons for taking the drug and maintaining this behaviour in other terms , it does not apply e.g.the prinicples of learning to the behaviour, there is this magic change ( now located in the brain) that renders the human individual powerless. Only another power ( a drug, ibo) can change the behaviour. People really believe this and create all sorts of quasi scientific reasons for this, because their explanation has to fit in this power game of drugs.pcFrom:myeboga@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] OT Possession and pre scientific knowledge Peter,
I have been trying to avoid your argument because theres a lot of text that needs studying and I cannot give it the attention but I want to respond to some of what you are saying:
You write:
Addiction is a concept from the times of magic, and concveys the
impact of the drug on the behaviour. It does not study the reasons
for taking the drug and maintaining this behaviour in other terms ,
it does not apply e.g.the prinicples of learning to the behaviour,
there is this magic change ( now located in the brain) that renders
the human individual powerless. Only another power ( a drug, ibo) can
change the behaviour. People really believe this and create all sorts
of quasi scientific reasons for this, because their explanation has
to fit in this power game of drugs.
and
>I never speak about addiction, or possession, or
>bewitching, I consider them all terms from a
>primitive pre scientific past, that unfortunately
>still lingers on in the perception of many, the
>ibo clan included.
I respond:
Peter you have not taken ibogaine and so that limits your understanding without a doubt. You also seem to have little regard for the idea of "possession" or perhaps I misunderstand you and you are refering to the mis-appropriate use of the term possession. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. (BTW possession by and large is irrelevant to the results of ibogaine. Its just an interesting aside to know about.) Your argument appears to be very rational without regard for real living spirituality. Your argument is almost atheist one could say?
If i dissect what you say here I get two things:
1. You argue that there are very scientific reasons for the taking of the drug and so to discontinue use one should apply more science and reasoning and not put your faith in an external power or believe that the taking of the drug imposed some external force upon the will of the person, i.e., you don't believe that the drug may have weakened the person spiritually thus allowing negative forces to prey off the weakness of the individuals body in order to underminine the soul.
2. Any reasoning which supports the idea of external powers intervening to help in the elimination of the desire to use drugs is quasi scientific and is applied quasi scientifically, i.e., It is an idea which fails to see that the problem boils down to a drug interacting with a persons body and nothing more.
To which I say:
There is a world of difference between superstition and spirituality. Superstition is based on fear and ignorance. Spirituality is based on experience and results. And in my mind this kind of spirituality is not quasi scientific but actually is very scientific. Its a science which is understandable by those who practise spirituality with results (the proof of the pudding...). I am glad I had the humility to move beyond my scientific training ... to reach out to the new.
One can kick drugs with a purely deterministic state of mind. It aint going to be nice and I imagine after, life will suck, or, one can recognise the mounting evidence that ibogaine (eboga) resets the brain chemistry and shows us the reasons why we become dependent on a substance in the first place via the help of a spiritual world.
I think until you properly appreciate what eboga is you should be careful not to undermine its cause by arguing that we should all be fighting for the right to take any drug as opposed to fighting for ibogaine. You are doing the ibo-camp no favours and actually undermining our cause. (if I understand your position correctly?) You are thus unwittingly damaging the cause of a very healing substance used for centuries in Africa where by the way it is not illegal.
My position re: supporting the legalisation of all drugs as opposed to working towards the legalisation of ibogaine is this. I am against it. Yes I support the legalisation of all drugs but I don't support confusing this with the particular case of ibogaine (eboga). One should not depend on the other. There are not the same.Why?
It undermines the effort to bring the benefits of ibogaine to public attention and makes the likelihood of ibogaine being legalised anytime soon very remote. It also splits the ibo-camp in its effort to legalise ibogaine. This camp is held together by the enormous benefits ibogaine offers. Not because the ibo-clan are drug loving users. But because they know the healing it brings. Imagine a senate hearing: sorry senator but I want to insist that all drugs are legalised, not just ibogaine and this is whyŠŠ. smoke up my ass Š.. homosexualityŠ.. Now senator are we agreed you are going to legalise ibogaine? No! Why not, you ignorant bastard...by the way there's smoke coming out your ass!In a nutshell what are you asking of the ibogaine clan that justifies undermining the enormous good that ibogaine (eboga) is doing for people? I really would like to know. Because if there is something that justifies your position (in a nutshell & no more) please tell me and I will support it. It has to be utterly amazing!!!!!BTW are you atheist?
Lee
P.S. I hope I understood you correctly!GardenRestaurant@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] OT Possession and pre scientific knowledge
Hi Peter !
Thank you for your E-mail :-)
You wrote :
Francis, what I mean is that certain types of explanation are
prescientific, because they use prinicples that can not be verified.
Certain terms imply forces of magic.For instance: If a gypsy passes
by and 'bewitches' a child ( knoweable because the child has panic
dreams each night) the 'cause ' of the childs behaviour is not a
psychological reaction of the child to a fearful event, but the
transport forem the gypsy towards the child of a 'force' thatnecesarily changes the kid until the force has been 'excorcised'.
Thye childs behaviour is not a reaction understandable in principles
of human behaviour, but understandable only in terms of magic.
The decision about which terms are to be considered 'scientific' is
in iteslef an matter of dispuite and historic development.
#If I understood you don't reject the existence of " magical forces" that
can affect our well-being and our thinking process ?/!
You wrote :
The decision about which terms are to be considered 'scientific' is
in iteslef an matter of dispuite and historic development.
# I agree with you, what is " scientific" today could be considered quakery
tomorrow. Science can't explain everything like spontaneous remissions and
phenomenon behind the actual knowledge and the limitation of the infinitely
small to understand the infinitely Great
You wrote :
Addiction is a concept from the times of magic, and concveys the
impact of the drug on the behaviour. It does not study the reasons
for taking the drug and maintaining this behaviour in other terms ,
it does not apply e.g.the prinicples of learning to the behaviour,
there is this magic change ( now located in the brain) that renders
the human individual powerless.
You wrote :Addiction is a comcept from the time of magic.
# You are probably right, but looking for one of he most ancient use of the
word addiction. From the latin addicere 'to devote' "to allot" and "to
adjudge or give over." Thus, "addicere" meant "to give (oneself) over to
"--i.e.," to give in or surrender"*
In the ancient Roman law "Addicere" is to adjudge a thing or the possession
of a thing to one of the litigant parties.Addicere was used too to give a
man to another man, one of the first judicial justification of .... slavery.
Then in the 18 Th century addiction became a recognizable medical entry.
This is in my humble definition of addiction : to devot, to give youself in
slavery to a substance, another human being , a compulsive behavior or an
entitie.
You think the change happen only in the brain ?/! My belief system is a bitdifferent....and will appear a bit magical for some, logical for others....
Drugs open the door of perceptions but in the same time open the Soul to
anyt Entitie that could possesse the powerless user..
Give me only the name of an Exorcist or scholar of possession who will
said the contrary .
About the myth of the learning part and Spiritual research, self discovery
in drug use. ?/!.
All the great religions Pre Buddhism, Hindouism, Sumerians, Maya , Ancient
Grecs ,and probably ancient Jews had flirted for a while with the use of
drug . Then they all at one point dismiss and condemned it .Even the priest
where forbidden of using Why ?/! ( side effects ?/! addiction ?/! social
chaos ?/!)
Tell me, only one thing, what exactly ,can I learnt by using drugs that I
can't learnt throught Meditation and Contemplation. What can I achieve
spiritualy ?/!.As a free man , with only the tools that God gave me.
Spirituality it's a very simple thing and it's only based on faith and lack
of doubt.Then come the blessing, the peace, the joy, the strenght....ect
What is the agenda of the drug pusher ? if not : control, greed or self
justification for is own use and abuse ?/!
About Ibogaine. I have been lurking for a while on this list. I have my
answer : this product work .!! And I will use it ASAP :to free people from
theirs chemical jails.You bet !! :-)
Francis
God blessstevenanker@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List To flog a dead horse:
Dana wrote:
[What would I do?] Threaten that no one with any direct experience with ibogaine would take him [Peter] seriously?
Dana, Peter makes some very good arguments, try and read them sometime. Just for kicks, try not being stoned. Heroin, fine, but not weed. I mean it makes you so weak of mind... heroin is much better to study with. I have direct experience with both ibogaine and heroin and I find some of his ideas helpful with coming to a better understanding of drug use. What we have now doesn?t work, why not stir it up?
Hey! You have no direct experience with ibogaine either... Oh yeah, you had no medical reason until now and it's always been your position that ibogaine only be used for medical reasons and you are going to do it ANY day now
. Tick tick tick...
Wait a sec. It doesn't seem like you believe it's only for medical uses only, witness how handy you think Jesus found it for helping with the pain of being crucified and resurrected. Oh wait, that's medical. You don't think the Bwiti have a right to use it without a medical reason? You would not take it without a medical reason? If you didn't want to have that cyst removed you wouldn't take it? Even though you made your son take it? Even though you constantly advise us poor stupid junkies to take it? Even though you have/had a large financial stake in it? Even though you wrote the book on it? Been immersed in it for the last 20 years? Strange I say. I'm sorry, it just seems like you are full of shit.
You have no time free until May 10? None? Such a busy man. Well then, May 10 it is. Let us know how it goes and what you learn. I'll remind you if you want. Best with the hash bash.
Dana wrote:
The crowd represented by P. Cohen has argued the action of cannabis and opiates in the brain are really the same; but the dose-response curve is totally different: every morning you do pot, you don't have to keep escalating the dose.
For me it was the opposite, I liked a big wad of dope to start the day and would taper off. Better sleep, you know? You always smoke the most in the AM? Cool. Getting to know you
We know they are different; that weed is generally less harmful than smack. Junkies just get a little sick of the superiority complex of other addicts: ?At least I?m not a junkie
? We are polite at least. And hey, we're not base-heads. We even get sick of well intentioned folk telling us how much better we would be if we found god, ibo, or weed
Ibo perhaps works best with those who want to quit and think ibogaine may be the ticket. Same with AA. If someone feels they need dope or AA to get by, then who am I to say no?
What are your sources for your fascinating thoughts regarding iboga being so widespread among Pygmies in the Rift valley and the Pharaos of Egypt and the Rabbis of Palestine and Jesus? The Pygmies have using it for 20,000 years for a fact? Like many of your ideas, perhaps it's something you want to believe in so you make facts up to suit the argument. I personally find Jesus having a few of Superman's powers more compelling. As you say: Facts are stubborn things. How ironic, eh? Well, what are the sources for these facts? Are they theories or are they facts?
Sorry if I missed all the nuances regarding Jesus? iboga munching in your confusing book. Why do you talk so little about ibogaine in it? Oh yeah, because you don?t know what the fuck you are talking about.
You wrote something to the effect of "So now I'm a DEA agent
"
Hhhmmmm... it all makes sense now. What better way for 'the man' to keep ibo as a fringe treatment than to have you as the loudest advocate? It would explain your refusal to ever take it. As you can see, an idea doesn?t always mean fact. There is a difference between truth and honesty. I can honestly believe something, but that does not make it true.
I wasn't there, the panel at the conference on lost sacraments, was that about ibogaine? If so, it's only lost to you.
I think it is still open as to whether you have done more harm than good. You make some good arguments as well as some very kooky ones. Some of your advocacy is helpful, some not. Why not take this magic cure you talk up so much and see if you have insight into ibogaine and yourself. As Sara said, if you want to understand iboga, you must take it. An impression is given that what you are most interested in is personal glory. History pass you by, eh?
Just fucking with you Dana. Like I say, it's fun. Wasn't that the point of the yippies to fuck with the powerful money-interests of society?
Peace and love and hugs ya? big bear,
Steve.
PS: Peter: ?The ibo clan? isn?t all a bunch of blithering fools who just found god. It has every bit a place in helping heavy drug-users as does legalization. Are you curious to try it?
PPS: Very sad about HST, the pain and wreckage he left for his family is great. It wasn?t the drugs which made him a great writer. He was person medicating pain; the pain became too great. He did make drug use appear to be a great hobby. Which one of us was not a little empowered by Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas? Hope he found his peace.cohen.cedro@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Okay. I agree. Most are no fools, but this veneration of a drug ( by at least some of them) is quite pathetic sometimes.
No, not curious at allpcFrom:BiscuitBoy714@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List Steve, Dana doesn't smoke weed at all in the morning, but I do. This whole thing with Peter has been enlightening to say the least. After hearing all the info at the conference, and listening to what every junkie who talked to me had to say, I have come to a more resolute conclusion about Ibogaine, and what has to be done to make it available. Right now, I don't give a fuck about weed and making it legal, we can all get weed when we want it. That can't be said for Ibogaine. Ibogaine gave me some control over my drug use, and has helped everyone who has taken it in some fashion or another. It's medicine. We need it. I don't think anyone should piss on anything that will help another individual in a time when they feel the most desperate. I've been there. I hate that shit. It's like walking around with a piano hanging over your head held up by a very thin string. You just know that that fucker is going to fall, and at the worst possible time. All this political wrangling over Ibogaine has gotten a bit stale if you ask me. There is no question that everyone who has used Ibogaine has gotten something positive out of it, whether they know it or not. Fuck, just trying to better your life is a positive step. You can go out and drink till you black out and die legally in the US, but you can't use the best substance known to man to help get over an addiction if you so choose. That's just plain fucked up. It 'aint rite. It's been 5 months for me now and this isn't a noribogaine glow thing. I mean what the fuck I say. Legal or not, Ibogaine should be there for people who want to use it. Call it mind control, or the power of suggestion, or just call it tripping your ass off and getting over an addiction. Semantics doesn't matter, this stuff works like nothing else. I challenge any mother fucker who says that Ibogaine is a party drug to take a 16 mg per kg dose and go to a rave. Better take a bucket and a mattress. Patrick or someone else may have more info than me, but I don't think that anyone could take enough Ibogaine to have a psychoactive reaction and walk around and party. You can take a shit load of Dramamine and trip, big deal. Matter of fact some of the hardest tripping I ever did was on Dramamine. I saw big polka dot boxes rolling in the fields of KY, and I saw a man laying under a car that was on fire, working on the transmission. This was on legally obtained Dramamine. I think we should all try and help, or get the fuck outta the way. RandyFrom:ekkijdfg@... Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Am 24.02.2005 um 11:32 schrieb BiscuitBoy714@...:I challenge any mother fucker who says that Ibogaine is a party drug to take a 16 mg per kg dose and go to a rave. Better take a bucket and a mattress. Patrick or someone else may have more info than me, but I don't think that anyone could take enough Ibogaine to have a psychoactive reaction and walk around and party.music and dancing is a very spiritual thing to me, and if initated bwiti people can take little amounts of ibo and dance all night, we should be able to do so, tooFrom:kn0m0n3@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Hey Randy,
I don't think you're dedicated enough to our Sacred
Political Offensive. Since obviouslly 'the mission'
is more important then the individual, it is essential
that you score some hcl, call every media outlet intown and invite them to the school, the day D.A.R.E.
shows up for their 'lesson', then Dose Ibogaine in
from of them all. If you aren't willing to do this
then that means you aren't fufilling your SacredMission.
(Iboga is a Spiritual Being. Not a politicalagenda.)From:myeboga@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List Peter,
You unwillingness to look beyond the cliche of a drug is quite impressive. You also seem to avoid particular discussions. I guess if there were a line of doors which said cocaine, heroin, mdma and ibogaine, you would be able to explain to a panel why each door is philosophically the same. Useful ....
Ibogaine is nothing other than a TOOL that a person can use to rework their inner world with the help of "dare i say as it makes me out to be simpleminded or is it just that I am humbled by its benevolence" spiritual entities and ones own soul - assuming you care for that kind of thing? If not I can see how it would be in your vested interest to conjur levelling arguments to detract from this aspect. There is no veneration of ibogaine per see but there is veneration of what it catalyses.
Please, if you can make substantive comparisons between its effectiveness and the effectiveness of other "medications" to this end, can you let the list know as it pisses me off to be so pathetic. You know what I mean. I simply think its a drag that I no longer want to kill myself or get out of this world but actually really feel deep and meaningful experiences. Hell fuck this ibogaine its a bunch of crap and you are right we should be under your banner and not stealing the show from the real issues.
Thank you for your enlightened discussion - well researched!
LeeFrom:reelectbushcheney2008@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Randy, keep up the Good work. Here's one of the
first blooms of Spring I found in the Garden here.
It smells Good.
...
hey noone, sitting on the fence isn't always an
option dood.
You do decent things in your nitch and nobody fucks
with you, so let them find their nitch. Find the
Sim's or the secrete service will kick down your
door and fuck up your crystal arangement, they tend
to like planting fake drugs in nowhere land. So playnice. Live and let live is your whole thing I thought.From:kn0m0n3@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
--- BiscuitBoy714@... wrote:
The situation is just so fucked up.
No doubt about that, for sure. Your funny Randy;)
I won't stay up nights wondering if I can blow you now
lol
I guess this is where I am coming from with that:
Some people who are so busy trying to maintain drug
habits in prohibition enviroment don't really have
time to look up stuff unless cornered or rich. So the
people that sometimes will read things (and to me
vital people if we wish to not preach to choir) are
the family. Making the benifits seem out of context
by compairing it to this or that hallucinagen can
obscure 'the message' to someone not coming from a
drug background, and in fact hates all things drugrelated because 'that drug culture' is what it started
with from their perspective. So I wonder, if a
Trinity Broadcast Network member feel comfortable
suggesting ibogaine as an option for their strung out
kids.
Scientist and people exchanging information is good
for that. That one of the many reasons it is awesome
to have Cohen posting here. Saying he is an obsticle
doesn't help widdat. The iboYenta in me has really
been enjoying the exchanges between them.
So tell me about COSM, how was it?? Did anyone
record it?
Take care,JasonFrom:stevenanker@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Randy,
It is pushing it to say ibogaine "has helped everyone who has taken it in some fashion or another." Irresponsible as well. It leads to the impression that everyone should take it. Ask the people who have died from it. On Howard's site you can read negative experiences. I'm sorry, most people who take it go back to dope, 5 months is not that long a time after kicking. Of course it helps, but it is not the only way. To push it as this magic cure in a pill doesn't help anyone, addiction is complicated and the more that is understood about it, the better.
The problem I have with the people who sell it as this cure in a pill is that it makes it sound as if you don't have to do anything else other than take the ibo and WHAM! CURED! If you don't do some other work, chances are you will go back to the dark master. All you have to do is take it again? And again? Yes, it has helped numerous people detox, but are you doing any favors by not placing responsibility on the user? It's only the individual who can make the decision to stop, only you can not put a needle in your arm, not an African root bark, not a higher power, not a loved one. Yes it is powerful medicine, a tool. There is no one way, we are all different. Look, I felt the same way three years ago... Remember Preston talking about how wonderful ibogaine was in curing his opiate use a little while ago?
I've been trolling around this list for a while and there is always a new crop of people claiming "Ibogaine is the shit, it saved me, everyone needs to take it!" A few months later they disappear. It is an option and is not for everyone. To say that it has an efficacy of %70 is false and irresponsible. There are plenty of people who have had miserable experiences with ibogaine, they are not on this list or going to a conference. It has to be looked at in a balanced way. I think the efficacy would improve if we figure out better systems for helping afterwards. Plenty of addicts stop all on their own.
Ibogaine is spreading and it is easier to get and take than ever before. Not that long ago it would cost you $30,000 to do it, now it's allot cheaper. It is spreading, even in America you no longer have to pay for a round trip airfare to do it. I can't see any way it will ever go off of schedule 1... The way the system works here, it is an impossibility. I wish I were wrong. Maybe the way it was meant to be is as an underground sort of a thing. I guess my fear is that with the screaming dogma that "Ibogaine is god in a pill and every addict MUST take it, it is the BEST" ibogaine will be derailed and no one will get any help from it. A few high profile deaths will put it back real quick. Think about the effect the New York Times article had when Howard took the reporter to witness a treatment and the patient died. Ibogaine has a strange energy that we do not understand.
I can understand how Peter thinks that this veneration of a drug is strange and I don't know how helpful it is. It would easily appear to be clanish and cult-like.
Talking with Patrick he said something like "ibogaine is a bunch of crazy white guys." True. I wish more of these crazy white guys would go to Gabon and hang with the Bwiti. Why not go to the source? We don't know everything.
Cheers,
Stevecohen.cedro@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Please don't!pcFrom:stevenanker@... Subject:[Ibogaine] Peter/Gabon
Please don't! [go to the Bwiti]
pc
Peter,
Why not? Corrupting the local culture? That's a little condescending to the Bwiti. The tribes in Gabon are strong enough in their traditions to withstand foreigners visiting. Plenty to choose from and the ones that don't want the white man around will tell you so.
I went, learned allot, feel that it's a good way for others to learn. It's a world out of balance, why not get an exchange going? I feel that if people want to learn about treating illness with this root the source is a good place to go. It's a very open religion and part of it is that anyone can join. The one thing that all this interest in ibogaine has done is to increase the cost of iboga for the locals, why not go and give back? Interest in the local culture shows the locals that they have something of worth, perhaps an aid in preserving the local traditions. Was it wrong of Schweitzer to have a hospital there? He was a devout Christian, was it wrong for him to bring his beliefs there as well as Western medicine?
Whatever... the whole thing is a little silly and yes, the cult-like veneration of a drug is annoying. Try and understand that many people have found help when they thought none was available. For some who have tried numerous ways to quit and ibo is the only thing which has worked, it is a miracle, so a little enthusiasm is to be expected. It is not particularly fun being a heavy drug user for 20 years, after a while it's not that much of a choice.
When I was doing the initiation one thing that struck me was how stupid the whole bit is, religious dogma is religious dogma, be it Catholic or Bwiti. I just don't like religions. Still I felt that the experience was an awesome learning experience and hanging in the jungle with a tribe is good fun. The locals found me amusing and I don't think it hurt them or their culture that I was there. Good people. Amazing music, Randy, you would love it. We are at a point in history where this sort of exchange is possible, why not take advantage of the opportunity? You will learn all there is about life in Amsterdam?
You may find this interesting: http://www.salon.com/travel/feature/1999/11/03/iboga/
Out of curiosity where did your interest in addiction/drug use come from? Personal experience, loved ones, or just find the topic interesting?
Best,
Steve.GardenRestaurant@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Peter/Gabon
Hi Steve !!
Nice E-Mail :-) !!
The good doctor Schweitzer, didn't have the prejudices that another
Europeens doctors use to have and still have . He use to send some patient
to his colleages " Medecine man of the Bush " when he cound'nt cure them.
Not only he was a great musician, a great doctor, a great christian but he
was also very smart:-)).
God Bless
FrancisBiscuitBoy714@...
Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List Steve, you make some valid points, but at the risk of sounding defensive I have to respond to some of them. If you have been reading the list for so long you would know that I wouldn't shut up about aftercare for a while. That was the biggest thing that was agreed upon at the conference. At least that's my take on it. I don't remember calling Ibogaine a one shot cure either. I apologize if I implied that. That is erroneous information. If I thought that you were really interested I would tell you the stats that were tossed about for Ibogaine and aftercare. The successes rate goes way up with aftercare. No one is saying it isn't as important as the Ibogaine itself. Aftercare may well be more important. Whatever. Seems like I heard that about how long I've been clean at AA meetings too. You've been brainwashed by what AA/NA you checked out. Maybe a booster will help. Seems like that you were saying a lot of the same stuff that I am saying last year before you went to Africa. (Thanx for being nice to my mother by the way.) Yea, I'm the new kid so kick me for being enthusiastic. Maybe one day I'll be an "old timer" like you. I'll "stick with the winners" and "do the right thing" "meeting mak..............see you got me thinkin' I'm at an AA meeting again. I guess there are things about my personality that some people don't like. That's on them. I'm trying in my own way to help other people that want it, with addiction. I'm doing more than ranting on this list. Awareness is growing in Kentucky where there is a huge problem with Oxy's. I'm seeing to it. Every where I go I talk to counselors and doctors who seem very interested because they see the change in me. Trust me, I know a lot of doctors and counselors. Right now all I can do is talk, and that is what I'm doing. Not very many addicts in KY are really into the new age twist on things that gets bantered about here. Some, but not very many. They are reading this list too. Who's going to relate to people like that. You? I've played music loudly all of my life. I'll do the same for Ibogaine. We all use the information that we have to get by in life. Lighten Up Beavis. Randymattzielinski@...
Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Hi SteveWouldnt you say that Ibogaine (talking only addcition interuption not spirtual enlightment) is one of the best substance out there to curtail addiction. You are right 5 months is not a long time of being clean but do you realize that most people wouldnt have those 5 months if it wasnt for ibogaine. You are corect in saying 'only you cannot put a rig in your arm 'however when you dont see that life can have a meaning ie through ibogaine-- why even stop shooting up in the first place. When i came on this list a week ago i wasnt astonished that majority of people had the same feelings/emotions/ideas about ibogaine.... It might seem like a cult or whatever but thats just labeling it again and limiting its full potential....the peyote religion in north america can be seen as a clan too but its all for the benefit of oneself/others....you say that if ibogaine was legal it would become a hazard ---but with any powerfull medication resposiblity is the first key----you are right many people would die but what does that tell you? it tells me they were not serious about its side effects .......many people die from methadone overdose etc its a fact of life ---people who are irresponsible pay for their consequences===does that mean everybody should pay for other peoples stupidity ---I really dont think that the reverence for ibogaine is strange i think not having respect for it is plain ignorance....just my thoughtsFrom:GardenRestaurant@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Peter cherry tomatoes will do With all the du respect ....
I know that detachment is viewed by some scientist as a virtue, but I think Peter should addict himself to opium like Professor Tran Khuong Dan, then feel the effect of addiction and withdraw then ultimately invent his own cure and share the knowledge with the world
Just an idea :-)
God BlessFrancisFrom:myeboga@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] cherry tomatoes will do - att. Peter C Peter,
Thanks for your reply. Sorry if my argument was somewhat pointed but I guess I was trying to engage you :-).
Reading what you have to say here leaves me with a lot more respect for your position. In the same way I would never dream of coaxing anyone to take ibogaine I would never deny another their point of view on something as profound as this.
Ibogaine is not about proselytising people or getting as many people "hooked" as possible. Its about FLOW. The kind of flow that lets everything move forward as a drop of water falls off a plate. As Steve very ascutely pointed out: eboga has its own energies. It happens how and when it is meant to happen and is not for everyone. Hence varied results and why I say that true intention is the basis of success in the use of this substance.
The only "fight" I want to join is the one that permits others the choice and in that we both share the same objective. Regarding your views on ibogaines intrinsic values I see no point to persuade you otherwise. Your argument is too well structure but unfortunately in this case lacks imho important experiential input. That said, lets agree to disagree.
Where I would like to leave the argument with you is on this note:
Whatever any of us do, let no one stand in the way of the progress of another and let each support one another but not impose our own needs or desires on another, i.e., let the ibo-clan help if it can in the lifting of the drug war and on the other side let the drug war recognise that it cannot hold the ibo-clan hostage in its own objectives by limiting the growth and direction of the pro-ibogaine lobby. Let us be free to pursue our own agenda driven by our own vision. Lets not play a United States of America power game on the individual parts that make up the world of drugs - lets not have an imperialism of the drug world but allow each part to contribute to the whole and develop seperately. Let the big players realise that in the same way that small countries have cultures different to the mainstream US and wish to hold onto their integrity, let the big players in the drug scene also have the humilty to see that we have good reason for our vision but also the fundamental human right to chose for ourselves leading to proper relationship based on the freedom of the individual parts. And if we chose differently to others let us all smile, have one big hug and get along. Give us the dignity and respect as a group of people mature enough to chose.
If we cannot chose what choice have we got?
Wishing you the very best,
LeeFrom:ptpeet@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Thank you Allison,
I go up and down pretty drastically, giving me the suspicion that I may very well be battling that ol' manic depressive type thing in myself, as I do, when I stop to consider things, exhibit classic symptoms of it, with my drastic (and I mean really, really drastic) swings from happiness and can't get enough done no matter how much work I cram in, to "oh my good I have to keep breathing? What? I can't just lie here and not breath? How depressing" type feelings. It's tough this life thing sometimes, and I'm having lots of trouble keeping myself up rather than down- sometimes. I did way too many pain killers this week, which helped the pain immencely, but also left me with no pain killers (well, that's not quite right- it left me with 80 less than I had 3 days ago- and V won't break open the new bottle for another couple days, "forcing me" to try and stick to the schedule with the other part of the prescription). I have to make due for the next couple days with just the mscontins, which don't do much for the pain but they do wonders for keeping me from getting illish until I am able to open the next bottle of dilaudid.For Peter and those who seem to think there's not much more to addiction than an immaturity problem, or a socially constructed false issue- Peter, I agree with you on so much, but on that one particular issue, I kinda agree with those who've suggested you actually try out a habit- get yourself "strung out" on some kind of opiate, and I don't mean give yourself a chippy but rather a full blown habit, and see what sort of effort it might take even for you to break it. It's not merely getting through a "few days of flu" or however it was you phrased it, but rather a whole mess of physical AND psychological issues involved.
As I pretty much snapped at the substitute doc last week who told me how hesitant she was (rather, how if it were her she would give them to me but since my own doc does everymonth she couldn't very well just cut me off) to give me my script as she feels docs "turn out addicts." In my own case, I couldn't believe what I was hearing, as I could care less about being "addicted" when my choices are that, or suffering in so much pain I cannot sit at my desk, and if I do manage to sit here concentration through the pain is terrible.
But now I'm finding I'm having trouble concentrating on the meds too, due to having to do so many to get on top of my pain that I sometimes (god damn I'm addmitting a lot here) have trouble just getting on top of the resulting sleepiness and fogginess than can and sometimes does result from the amounts I need to take to get the desired effect.
But as someone noted to me yesterday, the two meds I take for pain are the very cleanest, safest for a liver and most effective for pain I could possibly take, and I don't plan on stopping their use at this time in my life.
But what I am very, very seriously considering is going throuugh another session at some point down the road, and hopefully not too far down the road (it all boils down to money damn it). Because I know from much personal experience that of anything I have personally ever tried to help me break an addiction to opiates, NOTHING works better than an ibogaine session- FOR ME that is. For other there very well might be other more effective routes, but for me they all sucked and never ever worked for any time at all, and ibogaine did not only help me drastically reduce my habit, it had a lot of other amazing "side" effects that made it very very very worthwhile for me, personally, to take.
I personally feel there is room for both and a lot of positions too Peter and all. In Peter C.'s case, we need a LOT more people like him, who are insisting that the entire WAR itself is causing way more problems than any drug abuse ever could no matter how we look at this issue and try to end the stinkin' destructive evil war. But, legalization ain't happening any time soon, and until we do achieve that status, we absolutely have to have as many tool as we can have available to us to break us away from the prohibitionist clutches, and ibogaine to me is one of the very best- particularly because it DOES NOT cop to the prohibtionist viewpoint about addiction- kick drugs with a psychedelic entheogen? What? Yep, and it's beautiful.So what I'm trying to say in this rant is that there really is room for both viewpoints and for both camps to wage their own fights against prohibition and drug descrimination. I don't think we have to disagree with anything here, as I don't think the two viewpoint are mutually exclusive, at least, they aren't in my mind or in my active, (very active, even with addiction AND pain problems) life.
I hope I just made sense here and didn't babble too unintelligibly.
Peace and love,
Preston PeetMrPure@...
Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Anybody who believes that ibogaine is the magic bullet has been misinformed.
the after care is the most important part of the cure.
It has been 1 month since I had my ibogaine experience, and I'm still clean and sober but it has not been a walk in the park!
But I was not lead to believe that the ibo would cure me, it was explained like this.You take the ibogaine and when the experience is over you desire for drugs is not there.
Yes, there is a void left behind which has to be filled, but that is your job as the after treatment.
Go to a meeting or a therapist, don't hangout with people who do dope or sell dope, try to change your everyday environment this is not easy when all you have done is drugs and alcohol for 17 yrs.
Everyday for me is a new start, I know that people don"t believe that ibogaine is some sort of cure, but out of the 7 people I know who have experienced the ibogaine. we are all clean, and all had positive experiences. I believed I was going to die if I did not get help and I'm lucky enough too have been given a second chance.
I'm 37 yrs old with a new lease on life. A free man.
thank you Dana Beal.
i hope this email can help people in some small way,
If anyone would like to mail me feel free, I will share my experience with anyone who wants to listen!JamesFrom:GardenRestaurant@... Subject:[Ibogaine] ibogaine and Near Death Experience : NDE On this link on music and Ibogaine;
http://www.musictherapyworld.de/modules/mmmagazine/showarticle.php?articletoshow=63&language=en
The author believe that he had a near death experience. The spiritual awakening and the beliefs change made by a lot of people who took Ibogaine is actualy, very similar to the changes, life review, made by people who went throught an NDE.
For further reading see:
http://www.nderf.org/purpose_lifereview.htm
There is something out there ?/!
Love and peaceFrancisFrom:mattzielinski@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] ibogaine and Near Death Experience : NDE When i had my experience i found my self in a place where there was no begening no end everything was dying and being reborn. There were two tubes one going up the other down and millions of souls flowing in and out of them. I must have made that leap thousands of times --it was fantastic--and whats more important i knew i was there before and now i know i will be there again --cant wait:]From:stevenanker@... Subject:[Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc
Peter,
First off thanks for spending your time on the list and sharing your ideas. I agree with much of what you say in regards to drug use, prohibition, and society?s demonization of drug users being harmful. Any man who can make Dana scream, I respect.
The funny thing is you guys have a little bit in common. I have a feeling neither of you are wrong much. You both see things in black and white. Peter has the advantage of having helped create some of the most amazingly beneficial drug policy in existence, being smarter and not crazy. With Peter, there is that old saying ?too smart for your own pants.? Dana wrote his book about the cure for addiction
and runs ?cures-not-wars.? Cure this, cure that.
Peter, you felt free to advise Preston on V?s difficulty with the law for serving liquor to a minor? You know the laws of the NY state alcohol and beverage commission? Wow.
Perhaps you need to paint your argument in such broad strokes in order to raise the discussion and get people to think outside of the constructed norms.
Just for a minute, I would love for you to consider some of your positions. Never wrong? Tapering off and going cold turkey is the best way to stop? It works for some but not all. Saying it?s the best way is no different than a twelve stepper or an ibo person saying their way is the best way. Finding reliable data on the efficacy of different treatment modalities is close to impossible. What?s wrong with a drug user having options in helping to quit? Ibo helps some. Cold turkey works for some. Stanton Peele and you are probably right in that highest efficacy in stopping use is for those who just plain stop, outgrow it. What about those who can?t stop no matter how much they want to? Rarely does someone try ibo as a the first option. Why can?t you at least acknowledge that some people have been helped by ibo?
Drug use is often times a reaction to underlying pain, for some ibo helps deal with that underlying pain and correct the brain chemistry in such a way that the need for use is diminished. Why not use it in conjunction with cognitive treatments and behavior change?
For years I?ve struggled with the disease concept of addiction. I generally don?t like it, but what if some of it is true? What if there is some something to what neurologists say with their fancy scans?
Science has never been close to addiction work, yet there is some good science with ibo. As much as we share with them as a species, rats don?t lie. The tests with rats had amazing results. The analogue 18-mc works excellent in rats and does not appear to have the psychedelic properties.
There might be truth that there is a placebo effect with ibo and specifically with people having visionary experiences showing them the way. That is not what gives ibo it?s anti-addictive properties. I think people overstate the psychedelic part of ibo. People think they are related because they happen at the same time. But hey, if it helps
The trip is all over the place. It is a harsh time. People have been looking for god in a plant for a long time. Just give me that old time religion
no new time affliction.
Preston suggested that you become hooked, which I think is a stupid idea in many ways. First off Preston, it?s not cool to get someone hooked on dope. More importantly, if someone like Nick or Peter hasn?t become an addict yet, then forget it. It would be forced and not representative of most addicts. Most people who take dope hate it and never want to take it again, others for the first time feel normal. Some like it, some don?t.
Why do some people become addicted and others not? It would suggest some brain chemistry at work.
I?ve noticed that many long term drug users use because it makes them feel normal, it?s a way of dealing. Many have ADD. Many suffered childhood abuse. If you where fucked (over) as a kid, the brain didn?t form right. Drugs make it feel right. Years of drug use does effect your dopamine levels. Stopping makes it really bad. No fun. I tried many times to stop before ibo, never with any lasting success. Ibo did help me. Ibo did change my neuro chemistry in such a way that I felt ?normal.? What?s so fucking wrong with that?
If you want to talk about a cult, go to an AA meeting sometime in America. Here we have very little in choice in treatment.
Some drug users do grow out of use, some don?t. OK you?ve made up your mind to stop. What if tapering off does not work, yet you still want to stop? What?s wrong with a drug user having a few options in stopping? Choice is an awesome thing.
Some things you wrote I wanted to comment on:
?Ibo can not dissociate itself from the social context in which it has created its usefulness: prohibition.
For me it is just another 'miracle' compound within prohibition, and within a theoretical NIDA govererend dominance of pharmacological understanding of intense drug use.?
You are not impressed with long history of miracle cures? Morphine for alcoholism, heroin for morphine addiction don?t impress you?
Ibo has been around longer than prohibition as has harmful drug use. It is not only prohibition which causes some drug use to be harmful. Drugs are not evil, it?s some people?s use patterns that can be harmful. If ibo were around in the US before the opiate prohibition, I?m sure some people would have benefited then.
The African Nganga?s have been using ibo for a long time. Drug abuse is one of the conditions they treat. It?s a poor country with few hospitals. The ?witch doctors? use ibo and a plethora of other plants to treat sickness. Even Schweitzer had a toleration if not a slight respect for the witch doctors
It?s not a miracle compound, it?s a tool. NIDA didn?t like it, remember? 18-mc either. What?s wrong with wanting to fix or heel ones mind? What?s wrong with having a few tools at the disposal of a drug user wishing to stop? Slamming your hand with a hammer can be a learning experience, so can ibo be a learning experience.
As far as cultural tourism: What? Your favorite tanning spot in the Greek isles get spoiled? A bunched of pasty Northerners looking for sunshine ruined it all? The great city of Amsterdam, home of Rembrandt and the Dutch East Indies Co having turned into the Tijuana of Europe upsets you?
What are the options? The cat is out of the bag as far as globalization. In Gabon there was recently a National Park system created which is (as a %) the second largest in the world. If tourists do not go, it will not stay protected. A poor country will sell it?s resources. The oil companies, the Chinese searching for wood are better than a few people interested in studying local traditions? Poor countries need capital, as sad as it is. I?m less of an asshole than the oil companies and spread money out more equitably.
There is a long history of Europeans and Americans taking from Gabon and Africa and not giving back. Slaves, rubber, diamonds, oil, iboga. Why not go and spend money there on local traditions, helping feed some people? How many of the people making money off of ibo are giving any back?
If you want to stop the destruction of the world, stop using oil for heat, electricity, any fosil fuels for transportation, pay no taxes, make your own clothes and grow your own food. Tough to do.
What I learned in Gabon was not so much from the iboga as the people and watching the society at work. Society?s based on village model can teach us. Seeing how another culture deals with sickness was fascinating. They do not believe in microbes, that sickness is partly a result of trouble with social relations. What is also interesting is that they would not use what they consider a sacred root for a detox. The would make you clean up first, then do it.
I wish ibogaine, 18-mc and nor-ibogaine were available for addicts the world over and for people wanting a spiritual experience to go Gabon.
A question for you: do you think there is a Darwinian reason for drug use? Why do some humans like to get fucked up?
So, what?s your story? How did you become the semiotic drug expert who hates drug experts?
Thanks for the work you have done with drug use.
Take care,Steve. Ibo clan member #341268.From:ptpeet@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc
Steven A. wrote:
Preston suggested that you become hooked, which I think is a stupid idea in
many ways. First off Preston, it's not cool to get someone hooked on dope.<
LOL, no Steven, to get technical, what I wrote was:
Peter, I agree with you on so much, but on that one particular issue, I kinda agree
with those who've suggested you actually try out a habit- get yourself
"strung out" on some kind of opiate, and I don't mean give yourself a chippy
but rather a full blown habit, and see what sort of effort it might take
even for you to break it. It's not merely getting through a "few days of
flu" or however it was you phrased it, but rather a whole mess of physical
AND psychological issues involved.<
I'm not seriously suggesting that Peter get himself hooked on opiates, only trying to point out that it's not just a black and white issue, that it's not simply a matter of "tapering off" and quitting for many of us who found ourselves strung out. I wouldn't wish nor seriously suggest being "strung out" on anyone under today's prohibition policies.
I'm merely trying to make a point.
Carry on all.
Peace and love,PrestonFrom:tomo7@... Subject:[Ibogaine] Thanks for Steve's thoughts for pc
Steve
Well said, Steve! Your position was higher ground for our eloquent
mindvoxians. They do share more with each other than they care to
admit. Making Dana scream doesn't rate a complement to Peter, IMHO,
Dana's work on behalf of ibo and drug freedom puts him way up into
elder statesman territory for our side. But, he can probably handle
a rhetorical jab more than Peter, so your comparative worked.
Also, you wildly understated Herr Docktor Schweitzer's appreciation
of the witch doctors in Africa. He often referred to them as his
primary referral to local medical professionals for their own
people, and far better qualified than European academics to treat
disease in Africa. I bet he tried Ibo, given a chance and with his
scientific attitude. But again, the central point you made was a
respect for the fascinating history of knowledge and psychological
understandings within the native cultures there. Right on!
I haven't figured out addiction as disease or freewill use. I'm glad
my addiction tendencies didn't hit me when the heavier opiates and
today's designer drugs were a social option. Just getting through
some phases of overappreciating weed and cigarettes was damn tough
for me. As a Cancer, I got good at various escapes, and lost a few
years back there, I think. I'm sure that all of the list members
have their own unique experiences and stories behind these complex
issues and mnd-food preferences. Beyond a love for the sheer
wizardry of the ibogaine experience, I love that it is a precious
tool for a person to see their deep inner self. More options and
tools for that work are basically a Good Thing, in my view. The rest
of our discussions are entertaining expressions of everyone's unique
story. I appreciate this whole group.
Attaboy Steve. Thanks for keeping the bigger issues in focus for us.Sincerely, Dr. Tom, Ibo clan member #074968From:stevenanker@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] Thanks for Steve's thoughts for pc
Tom,
Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate the list as well, that ?cosmic mind.? What sort of Dr. are you? A good Dr. or a bad Dr.?
Dr. Schweitzer never took iboga, he was way too much of a Christian to do so. I?ve heard that he thought iboga to be as important as penicillin. It's bullshit, another of the ibo myths. He did have some faith in the witch dr.?s around him. What impressed me about his hospital was how completely small and humble his living quarters where. I was hoping for at least a cool organ. There are so many myth?s about the ibo, eh? Pygmies
selfless devotion to helping addicts... One day I?ll write them all out.
I read more of Peter?s work and I realized he will never think ibo has any worth. If ?the addiction doctor [is] the voodoo priest of Western man,? I doubt he will find any value in something that is ultimately a combination of both. Snowballs in hell. No sooner could I convince a priest of the joy of hot sex with a nubile boy. Uhhmm. Never mind.
Peter?s ideas make complete sense, addiction is a creation to satisfy complex societal needs for an evil and quantifying the condition with DSM IV makes it nice. I think that's it. The only argument I would make against it is to use an analogy of cooking garlic soup. More than garlic goes into the soup, even if it is the main flavor is garlic. Drug use and abuse are a combination of many ingredients.
Yes, it?s wrong of me to give Peter kudos for making Dana scream. But please, elder statesman? Dana? Are you on drugs Tom? Elder statesmen do not scream at differing opinions. Thomas Jefferson was an elder statesman. Howard, maybe. I will stop my venom against Dana as it pisses people off and on my part entirely personal. I do think it is great that he has helped many people and has a fan club. I think what he is best at is getting the word out to junkies. My opinion is that if you offer advice on whether to take ibo or not you should have taken it yourself, that?s all. I think he is a lousy public advocate. From protesting at the NIDA ibo hearings (scientists hate that sort of pressure) to plastering John Kerry with Sara?s thoughts of the importance of shrooms in ibo therapy, I do not see how these actions help. I?m a mean and vengeful fuck and have yet forgive him for distributing stuff I?ve written at protests without my permission. It was rude and I feel that manners are important. His actions reinforce the perception of ibo as a cult. ?Science, not a cult.? Let?s talk about Jesus taking ibo no
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