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----Forwarded email begins.----
Dana Beal <dana@...> wrote:
Dana Beal <dana@...> wrote:
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 21:27:54 -0500
From: Dana Beal
Subject: GMM 2005 #3: NORML Conference is in S.F. March 31-April 2, 2005;
Hilo, Minneapolis, Waikiki Make 110 Cities on the Global Marijuana March
May 7, 2005
Important: get your city on the list for the Global Marijuana March, May 7, 2005!So far we have confirmed 110 cities:AlbanyAlbuquerqueAshevilleAthensAtlantaAucklandBskersfieldBergenBerlinBooneBoulderBudapestBuenos AiresBurlingtonCapetownChicagoChicoChristchurchCincinnatiColorado SpringsColumbiaDarwinDes MoinesDetroitDoverDublinDunedinEast LansingEau ClaireEugeneFayettevilleFrankfurtFt. SmithGrass ValleyHachitaHalifaxHartfordHiloHoustonJerusalemKansas CityKristiansandLethbridgeLexingtonLondonLos AngelesLyonMexico CityMinneapolisMissoulaMontrealMoscowNashvilleNewarkNew PaltzNew YorkNimbinOgdenOrlandoOuluOsloParisPeoriaPhiladelphiaPhoenixPortlandPortlandPotsdamPragueRaleighRapid CityRenoRichmondRoanokeRomeRosarioRostockSan AntonioSan FranciscoSanta BarbaraSanta CruzSarasotaSavannahSpokaneStavangerStevens PointSt. LouisStockholmTallahasseeTampaTel AvivThunder BayToledoTorontoTraverse CityTromsoeTrondheimTucsonTupeloTurkuTwin OaksUpper LakeVancouverViennaVisaliaWaikikiWarsawWashington, D.C.Wilkes-BarreWilmingtonThere is also some international MMM networking going on at
this CannabisCulture.com message forum:-------------------------
Million Marijuana March. Banners, posters, handbills,
flyers. From 2004 MMM. Use for 2005 MMM ideas! Adapt foryour needs! Due to software upgrade problemsonly the full-size images and full-size image downloadscurrently are working-- go here:http://www.vienna2004.org/mmm/viewer.php?albid=510&stage=2
or if problems go to the home page URL:
http://www.vienna2004.org/mmm
and then click on "mmm2004"and then "Banners Posters Handbills"
Many of the MMM 2004 banners, posters, flyers, and
handbills were converted from PDF files to the gif and jpg
images found here. The freeware Adobe Acrobat Reader and the
freeware IrfanView were used.
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
http://www.irfanview.com - IrfanView is a free image editor
that is useful for adapting these flyers and banners for
your needs. Download the full-size gif images since they usefar fewer kilobytes compared to the 640x480 and 800x600 jpg
versions of the same image. JPG image files are mainly for
photos and images with lots of color gradation. GIF image
files are much better for flyers and banners. IrfanView can
easily edit, reduce, or enlarge gif and jpg images.
These flyer and banner images were found elsewhere in the
photo gallery, and by following links on the MMM 2004 city
list pages, report pages, image pages, etc.. Flyers and
banners for other MMM years can be found through the first
link below: MMM images:
http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmmimages.htm
2004 city list:
http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmm2004.htm
2004 reports:
http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmm2004rep.htm*****!!!Global Marijuana March--May 7, 2005: Updates, Reports!!!*****New Listing by Phone--Hilo: Roger Christie <pakaloha@...> (808) 961-0488 http://www.thc-ministry.orgMinneapolis: Chris Wright TCW@... Phone: Doug Daubenspeck 651-653-8243 Grassroots Party [Chris Wright, 5304 Falcom Ct., Edina, MN 55436]---------------------From: revtombrown@...Greetings,
This is the Religious Law Review No 3, January 6, 2005._________________________________________________________________________
Now on to the Law Review for today. We have a copy of the RFRA on Review No 1 and we have covered the Sherbert and Yoder cases that RFRA invokes as the way the court must examine our religious exercise in use of marijuana, in Review Nos. 1 and 2. Now we will look at the Sincereity issue.
Under the settled case law in the federal courts, the court is allowed to inquire into the validity of the sincerity of our claim of religious exercise. The government is entitled to challenge our showing of sincerity, we are entitled to enter evidence and argument as to our sincerity. The fact finder at trial will rule on whether or not we are sincere. As a rule, do not allow the judge to make this decision, insist on a jury trial and present yourselves to the jury on this question.
Here in the 8th Circuit that ruling dates from 1986 and the Warner decisions. The Warners got busted for possesion of some 2000 peyote buds. They sought protection of 21 CFR sec. 1307.31 which mandates use or possesion of peyote as a part of religious exercise of the Native American Church is exempt from prohibition under the federal drug statute.
(see: U.S. v. Warner, 595 F. Supp. 595 (1984) (note that this is an example of a decision made by a federal district court that is published); Warner v. Graham, 675 F. Supp. 1171, (DND 1987); and Warner v. Graham, 845 F.2d 179 (8th Cir. 1988).)
The federal district court in Graham ruled that the question of membership in the church (an element of sincerity) is a fact question for the fact finder at trial.
They went to trial and won even though Mr. Warner is a caucasion and Mrs. Warner is a chicana. The position of the government was that as neither were registered members of a federallly recognized Native American tribe, and they were not of native american blood, that they therefore could not avail themselves of the protections of 21 CFR sec. 1307.31.
It was a great victory for the court to rule that whatever the legal integrity of the governments position - and there is significant case law published on both sides of that issue, church membership - the fundamental question of sincerity or church membership is a fact question for the fact finder at trial.
There are several pertinent cases that rule on "sincerity". They are:
(For those of us who are not attorneys, F.Supp. is short for Federal Supplament. This is the publication where decisions of federal district courts are made. F.3d is short for Federal Reporter 3d Edition. This is where the decisions of the federal court of appeals are published. A decision where a law is interpreted for the first time by a federal district court in a particular circuit is supposed to be published in order to guide the other courts in the circuit. A decision of a district court that is appealed where the Appelate Court is interpreting the law for the first time (de nova review) or where a previous interpretation is changed, expanded, or narrowed is supposed to be published in order to establish the rule of law for the other district courts of the circuit.
US v. Ballard, 322 U.S. 882 (1944).
In Ballard, the Supreme Court states that the question of the truth or verity of a tenet of religious faith cannot be submitted to the jury, "The law knows no heresy, and is committed to the support of no dogma, the establishment of no sect. . .
"The First Amendment has a dual aspect. It not only 'forstalls compulsion by law of the acceptance of any creed to the practice of any form of worship', but also 'safegards the free exercise of the chosen form of religion. . .
"Religious experiences which are as real as life to some may be incomprehensible to others. . .
"He was granted the right to worship as he pleased and to answer to no man for the verity of his religious views." on page 886.
Therefore, sincerity cannot be determined by the jury agreeing that the religious exercise is something they agree with as religious exercise. The jury can only determine that what the religious exercise is in the facts of the case, is the same as what the person says they intend it to be.
U.S. v. Seeger, 13 L.ed.2d 733 (1965)
In Seeger the Supreme Court ruled on three draft exemption cases. The concientious exemption clause of the draft law states that the applicant for the exemption has been trained in a church whose belief in God precludes them from participating in war.
In one case, the man stated that "the cosmic order does, perhaps, suggest a creative intelligence" and he decried the "tremendous spiritual price man must pay for his willingness to destroy human life."
In a second, the man stated that "he believed in a Supreme Being who wa Creator of Man in the sence of being 'ultimately responsable for the existance of man and who was the Supreme Reality of which the existance of man is the result."
And in a third the man stated that there is "some power manifest in nature. . . the supreme expression that helps man in ordering his life." (on page 733)
The Court ruled that "But we hasten to emphasize that while the 'truth' of a belief is not open to question, there remains the significant question whether it is 'truely held'. on page 747
The Seeger case must be studied in depth in order to understand what the courts examine when looking at "sincerity" as a belief "truely held".
Welsh II, v. U.S., 90 S.Ct. 1792 (1970)
In Welsh, the Supreme Court rules on a case where an a-thiest, a person who denies any belief in a personal god or diety, is eligible for draft deferment. The Court rules that the draft deferrment cannot be limited to those who subscribe to a theistic belief, and that the essence of religion is that which trains and supports our "morality" whether by institution or personal discovery.
Africa v. Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, 662 f.2d 1025 (1981)
In Africa, the Court of Appeals held that Africa's beliefs were mere lifestyle issues and therefore did not rise to the level of religious belief. This case shows the negative aspects that must be accounted for in a demonstration of sincerity.
U.S. v. Meyers, 906 F.Supp. 1494 (D.Wyoming 1995)
U.S. v. Meyers, 95 F.3d 1475 (10th Cir. 1996)
This is a good example of a case published in the district court and in the appelate court settings.
Meyers is the first case published interpreting RFRA on the issue of sincerity of religious exercise - and in a marijuana case to boot. So, Meyers is fundamental to an understanding of how federal courts will seek to examine the issue.
Note that the decisions in Meyers directly contradict the Supreme Courts decisions cited above in many ways. Since the Supreme Court denied certerari to Meyers, there is no examination yet of these definitions of sincerity from the Supreme Court. Count on your trial court depending on Meyers for guidance.
If you, as I do, object to the restrictions of Meyers, then you must be prepared to argue your position in contradiction to the findings of Meyers.
--------------------------___________________________________________
Save The Date: NORML Announces 2005 National Conference In San Francisco
Washington, DC: NORML is pleased to announce that the 2005 NationalNORML Conference will take place March 31-April 2 at the Cathedral Hill
Hotel in downtown San Francisco.
Featured speakers at this year's event will include new NORML Executive
Director Allen St. Pierre, best selling travel author, television host
and NORML Advisory Board member Rick Steves, Drug Policy Alliance
Executive Director Ethan Nadelmann; as well as Physicians, nurses and
healthcare specialists, medical cannabis patients and activists, legal
experts, hemp industry leaders, High Times Magazine's editors,
cultivation experts, authors, members of NORML's board of directors and
many others.
According to NORML's new executive director Allen St. Pierre, "This
year's conference marks NORML's return to the Bay area, which was host to
NORML's highly successful 2002 and 2003 annual gatherings, and will offer
attendees a unique opportunity to network with other marijuana law
reformers."
"This year's reduced hotel room rate, coupled with free parking for hotel
patrons in one of the most 'cannabis-friendly' cities in America sounds
like a prescription to me for fun and education. If a person is serious
about changing America's misguided cannabis laws, the annual NORML
conference is the gathering place for medical cannabis patients, cannabis
consumers and concerned citizens."
Lodging at the Cathedral Hill Hotel for conference attendees is available
at a specially reduced rate by calling 1-800-622-0855 or by visiting
www.cathedralhillhotel.com and referring to the code 'NORML':
Complete conference information - including a full listing of speakers,
panel discussions, and after-hour events - will be available shortly on
the NORML website.
---------------------From: gear2000@...Great! Thanks!
I added you to bcc list on accompanying post about ibogaine
issue also part of MMM set for here May 7 Saturday and
could be Sunday in Bakersfield outdoor public event and/or focuson private venue here then with public media focus type event
there like weekday walk to/from Liberty Bell. Want to get the
DA and Mayor involved this year. See idea in accompanying
about bringing Dana here as part of multi-pronged program
to present latest "Drug Addiction Treatment Research" including
ibogaine and why/how its efficacy "chemically proves" that cannabis
is also not only not addictive ("gateway drug" hypothesis) but is
actually chemically describable in mild form same as ibogaine, ie,
an "anti-addictive" per neurochemical reactions pathways
parallels in melatonin etc.
Let's put you down as the Bakersfield contact per your infobelow for Bakersfield MMM event and we can work out
scheduling details in coming days etc. You and Doug should
come up here to visit on this one day with Richard and Georgia
Miehi who are hosting the SAT May 7 event here. 661-867-2486
I will print this for them to read later today and hope to see you
and Doug (who I invited already before Christmas to come asap)
soooon.
[I am hoping to get Jack & Jeannie Herer to come here then]
David
PS Morgan, since Doug is also busy week to week with the
Peace Bakersfield activities, if you will be this year's main
MMM contact person in Bakersfield for coordinated event
there, let Dana know clearly (his address cc above) for his
next GMM email update (Global Marijuana March, theme,
title, this year) and cc me, ok?
----- Original Message -----From: Morgan Collier bakersfieldcollegenorml@...
To: gear2000@... ; meihi@...
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:01 PM
Subject: MMM in Bakersfield 2005
Hello, my name is Morgan Collier.... I got your email off of Dana Beals'
webpage and I am in regards to the Million Marijuana March on may 7. 2005...
I see that you are the contact person for the MMM activities here in
Bakersfield; i am the President of a newly established NORML chapter at
Bakersfield College, as well as the director of Bakersfield NORML, which is
headed by Douglas McAfee....
The purpose of me writing to you is to find out what you have planned for
the Million Marijuana March here in Bakersfield and what myself and the
NORML org's. in Bakersfield can do to help out/ GET INVOLVED. Your response
would be greatly appreciated!!
Thank You,Morgan A. Collier
President, Bakersfield College NORML
Director, Bakersfield NORML(661) 932-8599--------------From: webba003@...yes i would like to be listed as waikiki my email is under my wifes name itis webba003@... and my number is h: (808) 625-9692c: (808) 371-2177
thank you
devon webb
--------------------------------
Please forward widely! Million Marijuana March. MMM.
The MMM 2005 city links are always clickable at these mirrors below.
MMM world map with many more links. Frequently updated:
http://corporatism.tripod.com/mmm2005map.htm and
http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmm2005map.htm and
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/mmm2005map.htm and
http://members.fortunecity.com/multi19/mmm2005map.htm
Click the region names in the left chart column to go to their city lists.
Click the "countries" link to go to the list of countries.Worldwide.
With less than 5% of the world's population
the USA has over 2.2 million of the world's9 million prisoners!:
http://corporatism.netfirms.com/rates.htm and
http://corporatism.netfirms.com/world.htm
MMM (Million Marijuana March).
City list and world map:
http://corporatism.netfirms.com/mmm2005map.htmYahoo Group:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cannabisaction*************************BUSHWHACKED!!****************************White House Won't Release Gonzales Papers
http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010805C.shtmlPentagon May Use Death Squads in Iraq
http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010905V.shtmlFrom: writch@...I would heartily recommend the book, "Everything You Know is Wrong", available at Barnes & Noble (cheap, post-xmas discount shelf, $7). I have only touched the surface, but already, I can tell this is going to be a good one. It is enough to recommend based solely on the Greg Palast and Vatican Bank articles.
It is a compilation of various well-documented articles from multiple authors.It appears to be more of a 'mind-expanding' experience than washing down four tabs of acid with a pint of mushroom tea. Of course, some of this stuff I knew already, but it isn't mainstream info by a long shot (not the stuff you will see on Disney/ABC news, for sure).
You can find out more about this book at:
http://www.disinfo.com/site/displayarticle9.html------------------------From:myeboga@... Subject:[Ibogaine] [ot] Schedule of events for the Bush presidency. Dear List,
I was wondering if anyone had the answers to these questions:
1. How long will it be before American muslims are placed in internment camps? Then I was wondering how long more it would be before gays who wish to get married followed by any other group in society deemed a threat or social nuisance. Will it affect house prices?
2. Does anyone happen to know what the final death count will be in Iraq? I am curious as I am just wondering if the Iraqis can have more babies so as to offset the numbers? Perhaps if they can be Christianised and told its God's law not to use a condom and to make babies for the fatherland. What would be a good number or does it really matter? Whats a life anyway, heh!
3. What is the total number of new arms that will be manufactured and will the arms industry be given sufficient support to build advanced weapons systems? Its better we aren't too close when we let them off.
4. Do you think it will be possible to convince people of an upcoming social security crises so we can privatise the industry and give the financial services a much needed break after the bitter years of the last crash? Hopefully by then the planet will be unihabitable so the issue will be obselete.
5. Given that we now have possibly managed to miss the deadline to clean up the environment, do you think we can keep this up and secure the energy industry as the planet visibly deteriorates around us? (It might be tough if and when the ice shelf cracks and the global currents are thrown off.) Remember its the last man with the most money wins! Heh Heh!!!!
6. Have arrangements been made in all the major population centers for the mass transportation of dissenters to detention centers following demonstrations, publication of emails to incite dissent, dissent against government.... If so which city is the best organised to handle a 100,000?
Finally if you are looking for a tip on the stock market I would look at kits to build nuclear fall out shelters, radiation protection and anything that generally relates to human disaster. I think there will be a boom in that side of the market.
Love & Light,
Lee
Author: Amazing Grace
A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.myeboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.myeboga.com/freecopy.html
****!!!IBOGAINE TREATMENT NOW $1500 IN HOLLAND--CALL SARA, 0113134-624-1770 !!!****From:slowone@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] RE:OT]Learning to kill/how are we still alive?? Tim Leary effected though his promotion of LSD the way millions of
people think. Maybe even tens of millions, maybe more. How do
you
discredit that?
BBC: "Timothy Leary, the counter-culture guru of the Sixties, who
urged his generation to "tune in, turn on, drop out" informed on
friends and helpers in order to get out of jail early."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/380815.stm
I saw his actions as being self-involved, publicity-seeking, and
irresponsible overall. I wish that LSD had not received the
publicity he gave it, although one could argue that the way LSD was
publicised was due to the gestalt of the times, and would have
happened anyway.
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:17:25 -0800 HSLotsof@... wrote:
In a message dated 12/28/04 8:59:13 PM, myeboga@...
writes:
<< Didn't Leary get discredited in the end or was that
just bad press? >>
Tim Leary effected though his promotion of LSD the way millions of
people
think. Maybe even tens of millions, maybe more. How do youdiscredit that?HowardFrom:stowe01@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] guns/violence in Canada New to this group and really dont have it down yet, so excuse me If I am not at the right place, but hope that I am.
The reason for my email is that I have been abusing loratab now for about three years.Recently it has got worse and even though that I have been a addict for majority of three years it is more evident to me now than ever, and I want to beat this. Like just about everybody I am terrified of the actually detox. I have been all over the internet to educate myself on the best and most humane way to accomplish this. I have seen a rapid detox(legitimate one in New York highlighted by dateline). They followed a girl around right b4 her process. She has been a junkie for 3 years she went through it and has not touched herion for 6 months. Then I found info on Ibogaine and I seemed to like that better, for the phscotherpay effects it seems to have. My story is much different than most people. I have drank moderately sometimes a little heavy but have never have had a desire to do any drug. I am 40 years old and started on loratabs when I was 37. I had a surgery had them prescribed but did not immediately fall for them. I dabbled in them months after, but hit me about a year later. The reason that it kind of snuck up on me is that I am very functional addict, at work. I had my best professional year with an income of $350,000 this year. I have to say that I have to give the drug alot of the credit I worked like crazy on it. I have always been a chronic worrier and sometimes the fear of hearing a no or bad news kept me from trying. This drug dramatically reduced these fears. I am a business dynamo on this drug. But now the effect is not the same I have uped my intake to around 100 mg a day from about 30 mg when I started. I had to be put in the hospital a couple of months ago for a bleeding ulcer stress from work but the doctor said mainly from the drugs eating through my stomach. My liver counts were perfect lucky for me it probably shouldnt be. I actaully read somewhere on the internet that loratabs are actually better for you than drinking because there is no toxic bodys in the drug. I dont know if that is true or not. Anyway I hope someone can give me some good news on libogaine The readings that I have done seems to suggest that this stuff actually makes youm deal with the real underlining reason for the addiction and also detoxes you and you have either no or very little desire to do the drug for at least a small window of time. That is what I need I feel like if I can break the habit for a month I can handle it from there. If anyone out there has actually done this or knows someone that has write me and let me know yours or theres experience. Any experiences with anesteshia detox that if would b helpful also. Also one last thing if anyone has any info on that guy in Vancouver(pot tv) that is helping people do libogaine at his center and if anyone has actually done this yourself at your home with no supervision. Thanx ps sorry that my message was so long just the first one the rest want be. SteveFrom:ms_iboga@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Hey Steve.
Dear Steve,
How are you? I have heard Ultra Rapid Opiate Detox is
a scam, and a nightmare. There is negative
press/postings about it all over the internet.
Apparently, you have a pretty high chance of still
going through painful withdrawal AFTER you awake from
the anaesthesia.
IMHO, Ibogaine is the way to go, especially for opiate
detox. I used to be addicted to heroin/methadone, and
have been clean for three months now. I did my
treatment in Toronto with a music therapist- if you're
interested, send me an email offlist, and I'll give
you details.
Good luck with everything- Ibogaine is nothing short
of a complete miracle...another key piece in the big
puzzle of LIFE.
cheers,Julie ms_iboga@...From:vector620022002@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Hey Steve.
Hi Steve, I'm not a addict and most of what I've learned about
addiction is from being on this list for nearly 4 years so in some wayI may have accidentally became more knowledgeable about addiction then
I ever planned to be ;)
The person who runs MindVox, has a whole series of ibogaine articlespublished starting with less then 6 months clean and continuing for 2
or 3 years after that.
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/index.html?Articles/HeroinTimes.html~mainFrame
Patrick was on methadone, heroin and xanax and maybe something else I
forgot, I'm sure he or someone else will correct me if I'm wrong :) He
does write about doing ultra rapid opiate detox twice or three times
and everything else, he was another person like you who had a lot of
money and kept going to doctors. He didn't rate any of them very high
;)
He finally detoxed with Deborah Mash in St. Kitts, but that was 5 or 6
years ago and his experience was different then a lot of other people's
because being tactful ;) he has a different relationship with her then
most other people ;) so what he got and what everybody else gets there,
might not be the same story :) :)
If you have a lot of money, the medical ibogaine detoxes that I know
about are St. Kitts and Mexico
http://www.ibogaine.net
http://www.ibogaine-therapy.net
Though I get the idea St. Kitts may have changed a lot in 6 years and
now people say they keep you sick there and the same about Mexico.
There are lots of people on the list who have detoxed at both. I think
what both centers have in common is that they have their program and
you will follow their program and not get what you want, which is where
all the other ibogaine places will work with you differently.
The best places to look on MindVox are Articles, Keeping Clean and
Links.
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
For treatment I think you are already in the best place, right here :)
I'm sure a lot of people can write you email and help you get ibogaine
and you can pick what sounds the best for you.
Happy New Year to everybody!.:vector:.From:JasenHappy@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Hey Steve. Hey Steve,
Your excited are you,..I understand,.I am still excited. :)
I did my treatment in Holland, Amsterdam. All I can say
is WOW.
I took Iboga which is the whole plant extract,..and took this
extract with a remarkable woman called Sara.
I hear Ibogaine is also great.
Sara is in Amsterdam,..her basic treatment is 1500 Euro.
It is done in a family environment, which for me was
wholesome and healing.
The price includes home cooked meals and accommodation.
Sara even picks you up from the airport,you are very well
looked after. Sara is a Shaman healer.
The Iboga took away a lot of the underlying reasons to
be anesthetised, it worked beautifully for me.
The first few days of taking iboga I had no withdrawals,
then I started to get up to 15% withdrawals,..however they
were shallow,..not annoying me on an emotional or soul
level. Like I had the flu and new it would pass.
As the saying goes,"this too shall pass"
I was also on Methadone,..which takes longer
to come off.
The Iboga filled me with love untill I overflowed, it
showed me many things,..confirmed things I felt
to be true,..and also showed me situations where I thought I
was so right,..when I was so so wrong.
There are many beautiful people on this list that will assist
you,..if they could they would reach inside you and pull out
all the hurt, blockages and clear your addiction.
Iboga did this for me,.allot of beautiful people put there
hands inside me and pulled out all the sh*t,..90% of it.
I believe the Iboga doesn't take it all away for a reason,
it leaves a little behind,..I believe,..so you have something
strong to rise up from,..like the yin changing to the yang.
I don't know about the treatment you speak off, however
I have tried many and this is the only one that has worked for me.
If we talk on the list,it may help others that are thinking of doing this treatment.
I am excited Steve.with love.Jasen.From:BiscuitBoy714@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine]Here Kirsty, trust me they are here. It is illegal in the US and everyone is paranoid for good reason so no one will come out and tell you that "yea, I'm a provider and here's my address and phone number", but you can rest assured that most of the major player's are reading this list. DEA, FDA, FBI included. Why wouldn't they? In my opinion it would be political suicide for someone to prosecute people for trying to help addicts but, the IRS doesn't care about politics and that is how they will bust people for doing Ibogaine treatments. Excuse me while I look out the window to see if the man is coming to get me. I know they are out there...........did you here that? I swear to God I didn't do anything illegal... well, not that illegal anyway. I'm not a provider but I know some, and they keep a real low profile. Everywhere else in the world it is pretty much ignored. RandyFrom:brad.fisher@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] Hey Steve.
I just had to throw my (two-cents) in!!!! I did an Ultra Rapid Opiate Detox
in Portland Or. $10,000.00+ . Was the most horrible experiance of my life.
That takes into acct. an accidental taking of Naltraxone (100) mg on top of
30 Perc./day habit. As terrible as that was it was over at about 9 hours,
like my brain had been squeegie'd clean. The UROD went on and on from the
time I "came-to" and was "cured". Whoever might be considering
this...RECONSIDER!!!!bfFrom:peter.haaf@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Hey Steve.
Hi Steve,
just had my treeatment, at my home place in germany. It was done by Brian, a remarkable man. Why don`t you
travel to Prague, book a hotel room and have your treatment done in europe, where no legal problems can araise ?
I was on 4mg Subutex the last week before the treatment (8mg before) and now i have no need, no wish to take anything
also i have very little body problems, feels like a floo, nothing serious, nothing to worry about. My mind does not bring
the two things together. I simply feel wonderful, born again.PeterFrom:skrupa20022002@... Subject:[Ibogaine] chipping turned back to habit,again Hi Yall ,its been a while since Ive posted.Last time I did ,I think I was celebrating the fact that I got past the 6 month mark post ibogaine without going back to the same ol'same ol'.I had been chipping ,well using hydrocodone or oxy once or twice a week orally.Cant say exactly when I crossed the line ,but i know the holiday stuff is difficult for me,to say the least.I even went off on a coke binge smoking crack a day and a half.Well ,i noticed I had violent diarrhea and sweats,Im back there,again.My habit is very light,I can go 24 hours or more without using,but Im addicted.I had a falling out with my best friend when I told her Ive been slipping.Ive been calling in sick at work,spending money,etc,you know the drill.Im commited to work until the end of February,schedule wise.Ive been contemplating going to Sara's in the spring.But I know if I continue using whats to come,a heavier habit,more debt,my deal is online supply,some street supply but nothing reliable,to say the least.So rather than continuing the downward spiral,Ive decided to do a brief buprenex detox.I called the doc that helped me last year,he was more than happy to help , it'll even cost alot less too.Of course bup is not my first choice, I love ibogaine to detox.But Im at the point where I still have enough free will to decide rather than being backed into a corner with calamity.I dont have to keep on fucking up to the point that Ive lost my job & put my nursing license in jeaprody.I also have hep c ,and all the tylenol in the pills is scary too.Im not big on 12 step,especially after doing ibogaine 3 times,but I need to take some action now.Lonliness is a big reason why I picked up again,I was doing Smart online,no meetings here.Im not hooked up with a therapist whose hip to ibogaine,and live in the bible belt.The list in a godsend,to be sure ,but I need to look people in the eye and get hugs.So Ive chosen bup to get unhooked for now ,maybe Sara's will be an option come March ,but for now ...Im trying to avoid the "oh why do I fuck up again & again" deal,angd just get back on the path.Im grateful to yall for the attention & care shown on this list,guess its my turn to ask for support.I know it'll be hard without the noribogaine that skips the post detox depression,but this feels like the best choice.Please send good intention prayers my way.feels pretty dismal and my thinking is screwed,but Im on the way back!!!!!Love yall and will be psting more now -shellFrom:vector620022002@... Subject:[Ibogaine] Fwd: Re: [ibogaine] Detox'd to Death by Dr. Death
Patrick, wake up! :) You've been in wired 10 times, I think their UROD
article deserves a rebuttal!
You've had UROD two or three times, you're the ibogaine poster child,
you've been featured in Wired with MindVox mad times.
Do something!.:vector:.--- "Patrick K. Kroupa" <digital@...> wrote:
From: "Patrick K. Kroupa" <digital@...>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Detox'd to Death by Dr. Death
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:59:18 -0500
To: ibogaine@...
On [Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 01:17:21PM -0500], [Dana Beal] wrote:
| Patrick calls this guy "Dr. Death." Lance Gooberman, I mean.
| Trexan's a Dupont product, BTW.
|
| Dana/cnw
Gooberman is a total and absolute fuckhead. Resnick and Gooberman
are
--
or were -- the two main detox doctors in the NYC area roughly 5 years
back. Resnick is, well, whatever. He's okay. He may or may not
take
various actions that are highly questionable in terms of how he
dispenses
"medication," which is entirely between him and whomever is
attempting
to
prosecute him; but he's an okay person and NOT totally full of shit.
Lance invented the whole entire assembly-line UROD conveyor belt
paradigm;
junkie in one end --> UROD --> <presto!> You are CURED! spin
control,
and
plastered huge billboards all over sugar hill, spanish harlem, and
Hunt's
Point advertising his shit. While Andre Waismann invented UROD,
Lance
is
the one who made it highly popular, very profitable, and totally
sleazy.
Most of his former clients have expressed the general wish that it'd
be
karmically correct to get Lance strung out, and then repeatedly detox
him
using his own methodology.
I can't find any fault with that line of reasoning.
Patrick
From: "Patrick K. Kroupa" <digital@...>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine question seattle
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:02:02 -0500
To: ibogaine@...
On [Fri, Jan 03, 2003 at 07:12:39PM -0800],
[crownofthorns@...] wrote:
| That was very restrained Patrick, what no top 100 reasons you
hate
| Lance Gooberman list? ;-)
|
| If I remember your little speech right bro, Richard Resnick was a
| wonderful doctor who is being persecuted for helping people and
Lance
| Gooberman should be cut into little pieces. Resnick gave you a lot
of
| drugs and all you got from Gooberman were 2 lousy urods ;-)
I didn't say that, I said Lance should be strung-out and then detoxed
using the exact methodology he feels okay to employ on other people.
Lance is a basehead (not past tense in the mid-late 90's) not a
junkie
--
that was his partner -- Lance has never been sprung.
He's also a piece of shit, and an idiot. Having said all that I am
unsure
that I could wish anything worse upon him that what he already lives
within every day of his life. He's THE fat, bald, stupid, Ronald
McDonald
looking Archetype for treatment pimp.
There is nothing I can possibly say that expresses any of it better
than
what Lance has to say for himself. What is stunning and absolutely
blows
my mind, is how proud he is of creating this little paradigm, and so
loving it that he has willingly filled his mind with this shit,
crawled
inside it, and appears to be happy living locked inside a box and
ruled
by
fear.
This is Lance Gooberman's headspace, he splatters it all over the
place
and spends all his free time attempting to inflict his beliefs upon
anyone
stupid enough to want a UROD.
152 slides of the contents of Lance's head. Truly a beautiful place,
filled with a lot of beauty, strength and hope:
http://www.lancegooberman.com/tutorial.htm
Apocalyptic visions of hell filled with infernos and legions of
demons,
are all pretty cartoony, videogame-like, and ultimately
fun!@#121!@!!!!!
What's really at the very deepest, darkest, heart of darkness, is a
little
room with Lance Gooberman inside of it, where you will sit and listen
to
him talk bullshit for All Eternity -- or longer, if at all possible
--
while going through withdrawal. And every time you kill him, all the
pieces reassemble until you wind up with an endless ocean of LanceGooberman's who will simply not shut the fuck up.
I am highly resentful of having had to waste a fucking HUGE amount of
processing time on the Cosmic CPU just to strip all that shit out of
my
mind, and set fire to it.
All of which is a long way of saying I hate Lance Gooberman, and
believe
he should burst into fucking flames and die. But in a loving,nurturing,
compassionate way.- - - - - - - - -
Resnick is nothing whatsoever like this. He's a reasonably smart guy
and
a decent person. All he did was flip through my list of former
shrinks
and treatment pimps, arrive at the conclusion that nothing he said to
me
was gonna make much of a dent, explained all the options for the
different
things he does, and asked me what I wanted to try.
Well, everything of course! Why else would I possibly be wandering
through this headspace if I didn't want all experience?
He gets harassed because he has an, uhm, arrangement to do various
studies. He doesn't write for narcotic analgesics, he just goes into
the
magical room, and then throws handfuls of nEaT DruGZ at you. Then
every
so often one of his clients gets busted going through a metal
detector
holding 50 syringes and 300 ampules of buprinex with no script, and
no
name on any of it.
So you have some guy with enough drugs on him to kill half the
neighborhood who is explaining it's all for him and he doesn't have
intent
to distribute and it all came from his doctor, this dude named
Resnick,
and so it goes...
When all is said and done I dropped maybe $15K on Lance, and $30K on
Resnick. My feelings towards Gooberman are obvious, but I have no
ill-will towards Resnick at all. He isn't a treatment pimp. It was
just like, oh well, it didn't work out, maybe another 200-300 tries
and
I'll finally get it right. Catcha later do0d.
PatrickFrom:ekkijdfg@... Subject:[Ibogaine] iboga experience & therapy
hello everybody!
i was on this list a while ago, was off for a year and are back now.
hereīs my story:
i became a daily user of h nearly 4 years ago.
since two years my life has been a circle of withdrawals and relapses. in october i was in the black forest (i live in south-west germany at the moment) when i ran out of dope. after two days i had to call a doctor and he send me to a lokal hospital. it was ridiculous: i got so much methadon, haldol, valium, tramadol and some pills that i felt higher than when i was still on h and downers. after 5 days i was released, not detoxed at all. i spend about 6 weeks with not much sleep. i drank lots of vodka and layed in bed most of the time. occasionally i would take some valium, tramadol or fentanyl.
on friday, december the 10th, i took about 25 grams of rootbark extract all by myself. (my provider emailed that 15g should be maximum.) it really blew me away. after 8 hours i took more extract, maybe 10g. i flushed the rest (i had 50g) down the toilet since i feared to od on ibo. i was in a nice dreamy state until saturday noon. then i felt terrible. on tuesday(12/14/04) i odīed on speedballs, probably because my system was already fairly clean and i still had the iboga in my body. i stopped breathing, my lips turned blue, my heartbeat was 190 and bloodpressure 60 to 88, i learned later. luckily someone was around to call an ambulance. they pumped me with oxygen and i came back to consciousness at the emergency station of a hospital. the next day i gave a lecture at university about william burroughs (funny coincidence). i drank heavily until sunday the 18th. i awoke on monday morning the 19th, badly shaking, and knew it was all over. i really woke up. no craving any more. no drinking or drugs necessary since then. i felt the big, enormous, radiating and rotating sun i saw on iboga shining all inside and outside of me.
the next couple of days i started to digest my iboga experience. i saw very sad and dead lifeless fields and landscapes that filled me with grief and compassion. i think those are the realms of my addiction. then lots of demons where welcoming me with scornful laughter. for a while every thought i had was spoken by changing characters that i saw standing before me. i seemed to leave my_self, also my body. i cannot remember everything that happened afterwards. there were ancient tribes,plants and flowers, mutating grimaces, a smiling girl. most impressive was the sun.while this experience can be seen as something coming out of the (un)conscious to be interpreted as a bunch of symbols, i also felt like entering another world that exists independent of myself, still i seem to be related to it.being a psychedelic oldtimer of berlin techno scene in the 90s i already made some synaptic journeys, but iboga is really something else.
what wonders me is that it needed 10 days to free me. then i also stopped smoking without any effort or will-power.
while there is a lot of i in this text i feel quite unpersonal these days, a state i know from times of 3 or 4 weeks of intense zen-meditation. the iboga gave me the desire to practice zen again, it also sparkled an interest in shamanism. i recently met a mexican indian initiated into a peyote cult. i told him my experience and he gave very good and helpful remarks like he knows about those other worlds.
i plan to try iboga on my ex. she is shooting up lots of c&h and ran out of veins. also she is very small and thin and has hep c, but not acute. we became junkies together.
i want to give her a dose large enough, so that she can cope with withdrawal and has a strong experience, on the other hand i fear she might collapse since she is in bad shape. the plan is that she leaves the scene in berlin a few days before and stays some days at her mothers place in munich, where dope is much more expensive, so she will reduce her habit there a bit and get good food and some rest. then she will come to my place, use up her leftovers, wait for withdrawal to set in and then start with the rootbark extract. i have taken a course in first aid 2 years ago and i will have a oxygen mask as well as phone numbers of emergency medical doctors. i read everything on ibogatherapy i found in the net. she was in hospital in nov to detox where they didnīt report anything wrong with her heart or liver, but i donīt have an actual EKG or blood values. there is no open scene for drugs where i life (at least not in winter), so she wonīt be able to cop easily the first days after the session. she is planing some aftercare program like travelling to italy and afrika.
do you guys think bwiti-music and incense can be of help? are there any other measures of caution to be taken?
iīll be greatful for any comments.-ekkiFrom:sara119@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] iboga experience & therapy
You provider is crazy.
And you don't need to over do it.
It isn't so that the more you take the better.
If your girl will die from intoxication of Iboga,
Then it will most probably become illegal in your country.
Your provider doesn't care he will move to another country
But you be stuck with hard feelings.
Did your provider try to take 15 gram by himself?Or is he just a kid who like to make some money?From:ekkijdfg@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] iboga experience & therapy
hallo sara
thanks for your answer.
actually i think its my own fault to have taken that much, but i guess i had to play on edges and the dose was right for me. my provider emphasized to be very careful.
i was happy to get this extract for a fair price, since i tried some other rookbark 1 1/2 years ago which gave me only stomach problems, nothing else.
do you think 15g are already to much for a grown up male of 80kg? maybe different extracts have different strengh.
i will be more careful on the girl. to get a professional iboga treatment instead is a financial problem. also she prefers to do it with me.
how do you find out how much you give your clients?-ekkiFrom:ekkijdfg@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] HCL (was: iboga experience & therapy)
hallo peter,
i donīt know if hcl is better. i got an email with the following info:
"The second option available, using Iboga extract seems to be the best option available yet: it has not got the drawbacks of Ibogaine HCI, which may be very effective, but is very hard on the body and requires a higher degree of medical skill from those administering it. Among the severe effects of HCI are respiratory problems, heart problems and kidney or liver problems. In fact, I am presuming that all of the recorded deaths to date occurred as a result of the administration of HCI. One other problem that has been mentioned by suppliers of the basic materials for HCI production is that toxic plants can pollute the quality of both Extract and HCI, for this reason they agree that leaves, wood and fruit or other identifying material must be supplied with the root, so that the source material is certifiable.
Iboga extraction has benefits that make it ideal for addiction therapy, because the substance is an extract containing all the plant alkaloids, and not only HCI, and it is widely presumed by those working with medicinal plants that the combination of chemicals that make up the plants efficacy should be extracted, not only the single purified and identifiable chemical that we believe is solely responsible for breaking off addiction."-ekkiFrom:sara119@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] iboga experience & therapy
Hi Peter,
Yes, I understand that study.
Look, even when you use pharma product you can't be sure that you
Have enough ibogaine using the traditional methode of mg? per Kg?
Some will say I didn't get enough and some too much and it would be just the
same amount of mg/ per kg, that is the nature of humanity.
And that's why a Doctor will ask you to come back after few days or weeks
To check that the medication works in the amount it was advised by the
pharma, Your local doctor is also working with "tuning", after coming back
to the check up he may find that a patient needs a higher or a lower dose of
the same, or a totally another product.
That's also how I work with both HCL or extract or Root bark.
I work with safe dosages , asking the patient if they feel they had enough,
Some will say yes I feel fine and some will say I still feel withdrawals.
That what I call "tuning".
So really I think that a good treatment is done when a person leaves with a
smile, when they can roll their on joint ;).SaraFrom:brad.fisher@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Re: [ibogaine] Detox'd to Death by Dr. Death
I wanted very badly to have the Dr., who at the time was head of the Pain
Mgmt. Dept. at the hospital where the procedure was done, to have to go thru
what I had just gone thru!!!!!! He would walk into my room with this
(shit-eatin) grin on his face and ask if I was ready to go home???? They
were planning to send me home the same afternoon of the procedure, telling
me I would be hungry for dinner. They did kick me out the next day, I spent
the next 5-6 days in my room at home in bed. My wife told me later that my
youngest daughter, 11-12 at the time, said to her one day" Dad's dying isn't
he!" The room they used in the hospital was on the top floor at one end, as
far from other patients as possible. I should have understood then.bfFrom:Jeffgd1@... Subject:[Ibogaine] the black box hey Patrick or anyone else
Resnick had me try the black box. He was the only Dr here in the states with it back in 94ish andit was a joke. Despite it's ineffectiveness He did help me through a quick strictly dope detox and for that i can only be grateful ....of course i picked up again as soon as the authorities were off my back.
Black Box didn't do dick
he was also doing bupe treatments....they lined up at the door like the lower east side...hmmm
as for me the nor ibo is absofuckinglutly gone but i am still somewhat okay...went through a wild partying week while our favorite band was here in town for a few gigs ending their run at Radio city for nye...i was offered oxy's and other yummy temptations but no takers on that it was strictly a psychedelic ride for this boy but the boredom of being out of work is killing me almost to the point i want to watch TV again oh no!!
i am gong back to work on Monday so hopefully....
I kind of am thinking a small dose of ibo is in order,mmmmmmm
Patrick your writing about it takinga full 6 months to get the brain firing correctly again is the most realistic thing i have read it aint no 6-8 week deal at least for this 45 year old head
and Dana hope all went greatthis morning at the hearings you rock again....
Freaking Freely not out stillJeffFrom:ms_iboga@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] iboga experience & therapy- HCL vs. extract
Sara,
I have used both the extract and the HCL, and in my
experience the HCL was WAY WAY more effective. The
extract did absolutely nothing, and I had to ingest so
much it was ridiculous. After 7-8 hours of waiting
for the extract to kick in, I finally made myself sickto get the burning, queasy, nauseous sensation out of
my stomach. HCL is, in my opinion, smoother, more
reliable and more effective. I have not relapsed, and
it's been 3 months since I was treated with HCL. I
only paid $1000.JulieFrom:ekkijdfg@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] iboga experience & therapy
Am 07.01.2005 um 11:26 schrieb AbbotAngel@...:
Ekki
God you were so lucky, im glad everything turned out ok for you. Do you think it wise to do this to your girlfriend, I say this because I wanted to self administer and everyone who has taken ibo advised against it, but you did it and you are clean!! One guy did self administer and it did not work, In your oppinion would you say it would be ok to self adminiter??? I hope all goes well with your girlfriend and well done im so jealous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Donna
hello donna
thank you for your kind words.
obviously my self-administration was not responsible or save.
the opinions of other people on this list, who have more experience, may be more profund than mine.
also no one wants to be blamed if anything goes wrong with you.
first read all info on the www in case you havenīt jet. then there should be someone around to look after you, provide herbal tea or whatever, empty the vomit in the bukett and make sure you donīt fall on the floor when using the toilet. your heart must be ok, on ibo mine was pumping like a 4tothefloor bassdrum. you should increase the amount you take very slowly and stop when you are tripping or at least got rid of withdrawal symtoms.
i ate the extract spoonwise with tea until after two hours i started to puke and couldnīt take anymore. it felt like my body decided that it was enough and i was already tripping. when i took more later on i felt i was loosing control so i did throw the rest away. the ibo was hard on body and mind, but i didnīt want it to stop.
make sure there are no drugs around and donīt cop the next 7 or 10 days, even when you think the ibo hasnīt worked. it might kill you like it nearly killed me.
iīm still exited about the ibo and feel stable and energetic, but its only 24 days without drugs,19 without booze and 16 without cigarettes. the whole breaking of addictions was a present i was granted and not an achievement. i feel i have to make use of it and consolidate my new cleanness, because there will be other times and new problems one day.
i got rid of my flat in berlin, since my habit was closly related to this city, and i wonīt visit for say 3 years. i go for healthy veg. food, physical exercises, getting busy at university, meditation, walking around in the woods, making music, meeting new people that are not junkies etc.
about the girl: if we get her family to pay for a professional treatment, then she will do it. if not, then i will very carefully administer it at my place.-ekkiFrom:HSLotsof@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] iboga experience & therapy- HCL vs. extract
Hi Julie,
Just a few comments. 1) Unless you were able to test the extract you had it i
s possible that the extract you had was inactive. 2) As for noribogaine I am
uncertain if it is a long acting metabolite or not. I mean it is an
interesting claim but, Glick's theory that ibogaine is sequestered in fat and released
over time is more likely. When the liver coverts ibogaine to noribogaine,
the noribogaine levels are somewhat higher than the ibogaine levels and may be
detected for some time longer than ibogaine would be but, that is not because
it is longer lasting. Unpublished results have found that noribogaine was
rapidly eliminated and as it is water soluble, unlike ibogaine it is not
sequestered in fat. No one has published data indicating noribogaine is long lasting,
only that when ibogaine is administered, nor is detected in some persons for
longer periods than ibogaine and that is explained by Glick's theory of
ibogaine being sequestered in fat. Don't you think it strange that no research has
been published showing noribogaine to be administered and to be long lasting?
Most likely the best results are achieved by the natural combination ofibogaine and metabolized noribogaine concurrently. Sara may be getting better
results with her extract because it may come from more reliable sources. Even in
the regulated drug industry periodically batches of poor quality goods make it
to market.
One cannot argue with a quality product and one cannot demean enough a poor
quality product. Reliable sources are always important.
I think it all comes to the quality of the product and the quality of the
care that is given and the time that is provided to such care and the repetition
of dosing as may be needed. My bet is that there is good HCl and good extract
as well as, poor examples of each. And, then there are individual and diverse
responses that are normal to medicine as well as completely atypical
responses to any drug.HowardFrom:wachtel@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] iboga experience & therapy
hello ekki
I would advise against treating your ex with the extract since you have no
idea of the alkaloid content and u can't tell how much is enough. The fact
that she is thin, female and the fact that she would have H in her system
are all not good starting points. Ibogaine potentiates the analgesic effect
of H. So that's why this is dangerous. Also, you do not up to date EKG and
liver count. Another matter is that even if you check her Blood pressure and
pulse you have no experience with what is a normal range under the influence
of Iboga and what is not. The range also differs from one individual to
another and and between genders. you must establish a base line couple of
hours before the treatment over a period of few hours.
I suggest you rethink the treatment until you finalize all the checks, find
a good source for the HCL (so you know exactly how much you are giving her),
do a first dose first and wait 2-3 hours to see how she is and don't go
above 10mg/kg.
I understand your desire to help her, but taking care of a her safety is the
first priority and the outcome of the treatment is secondary.
boaz wachtelTo join the Mindvox ibogaine list just send an email to ibogaine-subscribe@... if you please.Nothing more to it. You don't have to write anything in the subject or text area.-------------------------------------------------------------From: tents444@...http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmmall.htm This page just created! Please forward and distribute widely.348 MMM cities worldwide since 1999!
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