Having problems with message search?
----Forwarded email begins.----
Dana Beal <dana@...> wrote:
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:50:46 -0500
From: Dana Beal
Subject: MMM 2004 #62: More on Maine MedMar Bust; Michael Patriquen, Out
of Jail, Makes Halifax 94th City on the Global Marijuana March May 7,
2005!
Important: get your city on the list for the Global Marijuana March, May 7, 2005!So far we have confirmed 94 cities:AlbanyAlbuquerqueAthensAshevilleAucklandBergenBerlinBooneBoulderBudapestBuenos AiresBurlingtonCapetownChicagoChicoChristchurchCincinnatiColorado SpringsColumbiaDarwinDes MoinesDetroitDoverDublinDunedinEast LansingEugeneFayettevilleFrankfurtFt. SmithHalifaxHartfordHachitaHoustonJerusalemKansas CityKristiansandLethbridgeLexingtonLondonLos AngelesMexico CityMissoulaMontrealMoscowNashvilleNewarkNew PaltzNew YorkNimbinOgdenOuluOsloParisPeoriaPhiladelphiaPhoenixPortlandPotsdamPragueRaleighRapid CityRenoRichmondRoanokeRomeRosarioRostockSan FranciscoSarasotaSavannahSpokaneStavangerStevens PointSt. LouisStockholmTallahasseeTampaThunder BayTorontoTraverse CityTromsoeTrondheimTucsonTupeloTurkuUpper LakeVancouverViennaVisaliaWarsawWashington, D.C.Wilkes-BarreWilmingtonThere is also some international MMM networking going on at
this CannabisCulture.com message forum:http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=current-------------------------*****!!!Global Marijuana March--May 7, 2005: Updates, Reports!!!*****From: aclrm@...Webgreetings and appologies,Typically, no sooner do I send an email stating "here is the new URL, please use it,' than a better one pops up thusThe web page for the Nimbin Marijuana March is
http://www.nimbin-marijuana-march.420-web-hosting.com
so please use this URL in all future linkings.
Till nextPeaceMax Stone
PRESS RELEASE
6 December 2004
Australian Medical Cannabis Information Service (MCIS) has struck out at
yet another blow to the re introduction of cannabinotherapies.
Last week the Bush Administration took a baseball bat to US States that
allow medical cannabis use, this week the UK Health regulator has rejected
a new cannabis preparation that has proven itself through all the required
medical and clinical trials.
Mr Andrew Kavasilas, MCIS founder and a noted researcher in the field
said, "Very sick people in Australia are calling for medical cannabis
preparations, the NSW Premier has called to trial this product for a
number of years".
In 1999 the NSW Government formed an Expert Working Party to report on the
use of cannabis for medical purposes. The report concluded that the
science does indicate that cannabis has beneficial therapeutic properties and that
several options should be considered by the NSW government to allow
patients access.
Mr Kavasilas said "there's just so many people who have accepted the idea
of medical cannabis during the past 5 years or so, trials are needed, people
are waiting, who will help them, It's now up to Mr Howard to give the nod
on behalf of cancer, chemotherapy, MS and other patients"
"Last year, synthetic Delta 9 THC (one of the active compounds in
cannabis) was re introduced, 49 countries used over 90 kg of it, Australia bought 20
grams worth to study, are we going to wait for each compound is synthesised?" he added
Andrew Kavasilas
0427 891 968
Pubdate: Sat, 04 Dec 2004
Source: Guardian, The (UK)
Website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian/
Author: Heather Tomlinson
Cited: GW Pharmaceuticals http://www.gwpharm.com/
ANGER AS CANNABIS DRUG FAILS MS TRIAL
A multiple sclerosis treatment made from cannabis has been rejected by UK
regulators, outraging patient groups who say it has benefits for sufferers.
The news that Sativex cannot go on sale sent the shares of GW Pharmaceuticals, the
company developing the drug, down 25% to close at 106.5p. The news precedes a
meeting between Home Office and Department of Health ministers next week.
The meeting was prompted by MPs' concerns that MS sufferers are having to
buy cannabis off the street to relieve their symptoms. The meeting had
planned to look at ways of getting the treatment out more quickly.
"The [regulator] has failed to listen to those with MS who reportedpositive and sustained benefit from Sativex, in a properly designed and statistically
significant trial," said Christine Jones, the chief executive of the MS Trust. "I hope
the [regulator] will reconsider their position and give some thought to the
impact of this decision on the lives of those with painful, chronic disease."
The MS Society said the news was "extremely disappointing".
Sativex is a nasal spray made from extracts of cannabis plants, which the
Home Office allows GW to farm for medical purposes. It contains THC - the
compound in cannabis that causes the "high".
The committee on safety of medicines told the firm that it will have to
conduct another clinical trial before the spray can be licensed for sale because
it is not sure of its benefits. The firm already has a trial under way which it
intends to model to the regulator's requirements but it will not be completed by the
end of next year at the earliest.
The firm also intends to appeal the decision to the Medicines Commission,
a separate body. This will take six months. It will also try to get approval
from the Home Office to sell it unlicensed.
The CSM had said it is happy with the safety of the drug and the quality
of the manufacturing. It is an unusual drug to make because it is farmed from
plants.
GW has data that demonstrates the drug reduces a number of MS symptoms.
But it decided to choose one particular clinical trial to put in front of theregulators, which tested the drug's reduction of muscle spasms. This is
hard to measure objectively, but GW said it focused on this because it was advised
to by UK regulators. The CSM told GW that the data might not be "clinically
relevant".
"The only issue left is not does it work, it is: is the size of the effect
one that the patient believes is meaningful?" said Justin Gover, the managing director
of GW Pharmaceuticals.
He added that the problems will not cost it any more cash. The company has
enough money left to cover costs for 18 months, but Mr Gover said that
approval for sale in Canada might bring in revenues before the cash runs out.
The news did not impress the City. "The bottom line was that the
regulators were not convinced that he had shown it had made a difference that
mattered to patients," said Erling Refsum, an analyst at investment bank Nomura. "It
was GW's fault for doing a trial without using an end point regulators were
happy with."
Scientists expressed surprise at the outcome. "I am very disappointed that
the CSM has not followed my recommendation that the data fully supports the
approval of Sativex," said Professor Mike Barnes, the president of the
World Federation of Neuro-rehabilitation, who has "long and substantial"
experience of treating MS patients and is independent of the company.----------------------From: tents444@...OK. I will update Budapest soon on the 2005 city list webpages:
http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmm2005.htm and
http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmm2005map.htm
And I am forwarding this to Dana Beal too.
eco man
-------------
Sárosi Péter <sarosip@...> wrote:
Hi,
please do not give my email and the website of the Hungarian Civil Liberties Union, because the organizer of the MMM in Budapest is solely the Hemp Seed Association (www.kendermag.hu ), the email address is juhaszp@...
We will inform you on the details later.
Thanks,
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: eco man
To: sarosip@...
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 3:24 AM
Subject: Budapest is on MMM 2005 city list now.
Hello,
I saw your email in Dana's forwarded big compilation here:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/mmmworld/message/344
I added Budapest to the basic MMM 2005 city list. Is that OK? Are the links and email addresses OK? Any more I should add? See Budapest listing here:
http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmm2005.htm
eco man
---------
Your email:
From: sarosip@...
Hello,
I was informed that you have no information on the 2004 marijuana march in Budapest. I am one of the organizers, so if you have any questions, please ask me.
Best wishes,
Peter Sarosi
Drug Policy Project Coordinator
HUNGARIAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION
H-1114 Budapest, Eszék utca 8/B. fszt. 2.
tel/ fax: (36) 1 279-22-36, (36) 1 279-0755Mail: sarosip@... www.tasz.hu
----------------------------From: mpat@...Hi Dana,
Please add Halifax, Nova Scotia
Saturday May 7, 2:00 Halifax Grand Parade, Barrington St.
Hosted By: NORML Canada (Atlantic)
Contact: Mike Patriquen
(902) 865-8606
(902) 865-8914mpat@...
Cheers,
Mike.
p.s. Can we get early distribution of posters? They have always come latebefore.-------From: mainevocals@...Activist takes on medical pot laws
Monday, December 06, 2004 - Bangor Daily News
Submit Your Thoughts
Email This Article To A Friend Print This Article Go Back
MADISON - Nearly mirroring a debate in the U.S. Supreme Court, the founder of Maine Vocals is challenging Maine's medical marijuana laws. Don Christen, a marijuana reform advocate who has been arrested several times on marijuana violations, was arrested again last month.
Police charged him with growing and trafficking in marijuana, and providing marijuana to others, while Christen maintains he was legally providing pot to seriously ill people with doctors' permission as allowed under Maine's medical marijuana law.
Maine is one of 11 states that has passed such laws.
In October, Christen established the Medical Marijuana Distribution Center at his Madison home and was providing pot to seriously ill people who had received written notices from their doctors for the drug. At the time of his arrest, Christen said he had five "patients."
"The problem is the Maine law is so vague," he said. "I expected the police [to raid my home]. I knew they'd come."Christen said that when the Maine Legislature passed the medical marijuana provision six years ago, it failed to implement a distribution plan.
Even Somerset County Sheriff's Detective Sgt. Carl Gottardi, who arrested Christen, agrees. "If, for example, a doctor allows that a patient should have marijuana, where do they get it?" Gottardi said Friday.
Gottardi said his drug eradication team is "fully aware that there are people with serious medical conditions that allow certain people to qualify to possess a certain amount of marijuana. We take that into consideration and we don't go around raiding people who have slips from their doctors."
As an example, Gottardi said that during the raid on Christen's home, Christen's wife, Pam, who has cancer, was not charged with any drug violations. "Mrs. Christen obviously does have a serious illness. I can feel for that in my heart. And she was not charged with anything."
"We are not after Don Christen because he is supplying people with medical conditions. He violated the law," said Gottardi.
"We don't make up the laws. We enforce them," he added.
Pam Christen said she is petitioning the court to return the marijuana, which she said she legally uses as medication.
"I am a cancer patient, undergoing chemotherapy which all [drug] agents acknowledged prior to entry to my home," said Pam Christen. "They had no regard for the Medical Marijuana Law whatsoever and no compassion for me as they left me nothing to medicate with, all fully well knowing that I was sick as hell and would be miserable soon without it."
Vassalboro resident Carroll Cummings is also petitioning the court for return of the marijuana, which he uses as medication and was obtaining from Don Christen.
"I was charged recently - Oct. 13, 2003 - for possession of a usable amount of marijuana and the charges were dropped once I provided evidence that I met all the requirements set forth in the Medical Marijuana Law," Cummings said Friday.
"Though the Marijuana Law does help me, if you study it thoroughly you will find it lacks provisions for me to acquire my [medicinal marijuana]. Thus, to protect myself from buying from an undercover DEA agent or one of their informants, and due to the fact our state legislators have failed to pass any type of legislation that allows for distribution, I had to take it upon myself to find someone willing to take the chance and provide me with my medicine when I need it. I found the person I believed I could trust, Donald Christen, a friend for nearly 15 years."
Cummings said that his notarized doctor's notice is attached to the wall right next to the Christens' front door, along with similar notices for four other people. Cummings maintained that the drug agents seized and have failed to return his legal medication.
Christen said his operation was public and not covert.
"Everything was upstairs in the storage room and was not hidden at all," Christen said. "Some of the processed marijuana was in jars in my kitchen cabinets that we used daily, so it was handy. There was also some leaf that was trimmed off the marijuana, that was to be thrown in the wood stove or on the compost but the police want to add that weight to the 'processed marijuana' to make the weight up over a pound of marijuana. The patients don't want to smoke leaf as it has no medicinal qualities and doesn't work. Leaf is also more carcinogenic than tobacco products."
He said he also had 13 plants as part of his winter medicinal crop. Christen said he is legally allowed to grow six plants per patient.
Christen is scheduled for a bail hearing next week and an arraignment on the drug charges is set for Jan. 19 at Skowhegan District Court.
Last week, the U.S. Supreme Court questioned whether state medical marijuana laws might be abused by people who aren't really sick as it debated whether the federal government can prosecute patients who smoke pot on doctors' orders.
The justices refused three years ago to protect distributors of medical marijuana from federal prosecution.
This time, they are examining the power of federal agents to go after sick people who use homegrown cannabis with their doctor's permission and their state's approval.
A ruling is not expected until next summer.-----------From: tbaydoc@...Hello,I'd like to update the information that you have for the contacts in Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada.Doug Thompson < docclone@... > (807)475-7436Kevin Larson < tbaydoc@... > (807)475-8210
Peace & Toke Care
Doc----------------
FEDS VS. MEDS
by Dean Kuipers
A little-known law may finally challenge the feds' 30-year stall in recognizing medical marijuana. But it also raises a big question: Who decides what is medicine?By now, America has heard a lot about Oakland, California medical marijuana patient Angel McClary Raich. In arguments November 29 before the U.S. Supreme Court, Raich - possibly the most sympathetic party to ever come before the High Court, a 38-year-old mother of two with a list of ailments including an inoperable brain tumor, wasting syndrome, uterine fibroid tumors, scoliosis, paralysis, endometriosis, and more - got her chance to nail outgoing U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft et al. for trying to take away the only medicine that has helped her. Her case has pitted California's Compassionate Use Act of 1996, which legalized limited medical use of marijuana, against the federal Controlled Substances Act, under which all marijuana is illegal. For Raich, cannabis is the only treatment (out of 35 medicines tried) that has allowed her to keep her weight up. Her doctor says losing it would be a death sentence.The case is a mighty test of states' rights, which this court has previously favored. But the barrage of questions the justices fired at Raich's lawyer, Boston University professor Randy Barnett, revealed more than the possible end of their so-called "federalist revolution." They revealed the interior machinations of a kind of regulatory fever dream in which no government agency will confront the increasingly embarrassing mass of scientific evidence in favor of pot's accepted use as medicine.Justice Stephen Breyer highlighted the problem in his questioning, suggesting this wasn't a matter for the courts. If Raich et al. were unhappy with the federal Drug Enforcement Administration kicking down their doors and throwing them in jail, possibly to die, he argued, why didn't they go to the FDA "and take marijuana off the list that would be the obvious way to get what they want." In other words, it should be left to the regulatory agencies. "Isn't medicine by regulation better than medicine by referendum?""They don't let you answer any of the questions in any detail, so I basically pointed him to our amicus brief, which chronicles the obstructions that the government has put in the way of medical cannabis research," says Barnett. Holding up both this and a 1999 report by the Institute of Medicine, commissioned by drug czar John Walters at the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, which goes into some detail about marijuana's therapeutic effects and the way research has been stymied for political reasons, Barnett stood in the courtroom and stared at an impossible tautology: The courts don't want to rule on medical pot because it should be a regulatory matter, and the regulatory agencies refuse to review it, forcing it repeatedly into the courts. Meanwhile, the lives of otherwise law-abiding citizens hang in the balance.For over 30 years, activists and federal regulators have been locked in a slow and outlandishly tortuous legal struggle over the medical use of marijuana and who, if anyone, has the authority to change marijuana's status under the 1970 Controlled Substances Act from a Schedule One narcotic, meaning it has "no accepted medical use," to one of four less-restrictive categories. Even though comments like Breyer's make it seem as though there is a clear procedure for this, and a DEA judge even ruled in 1988 that it would be illegal not to reschedule given the preponderance of evidence, the DEA has dug in its heels and - defying logic, science, and, apparently, the law - mutely refused to budge.Two months ago, however, a new challenge to this chronic obstruction was filed under a little-known 2002 law called the Data Quality Act (DQA) that may turn out to be the pry bar that moves the feds. The act is designed to force regulatory agencies to base decisions on the best available science. Although it's not part of the Raich case and has received relatively little notice in comparison, it may turn out be her salvation."I hope that what this does is wake the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services [HHS] up to doing a fair review of the current [rescheduling petition]," says Hilary McQuie, campaign director for Americans for Safe Access (ASA), who filed the Data Quality Act petition. "Because I don't feel like I should have to take a regulatory agency to court. I feel like they should do a full scientific review."When everyone's saying the FDA should just do this, do they not know that the DEA is in the way of the FDA doing this?" adds McQuie. "It shouldn't be this hard. It shouldn't be law enforcement agencies that make medical scientific decisions. But right now it is set up that way.""Their gimmick is that they won't let researchers have cannabis for research," says Barnett. Though the FDA's recommendations regarding drugs can allegedly force the DEA to at least consider rescheduling, the two agencies work together to make that impossible. Every potential avenue is only a loop. No legal pot, no research; no research, no legal pot. "That's the game that's played: If you object to the regulatory process, they say, 'Yeah, but there's judicial review.' If you get to judicial review, they say, 'Oh, well, look back at the regulatory process; they're the experts, not us.'"Signed by President Bill Clinton on his way out the door as part of the Paperwork Reduction Act, the DQA was a corporate gimme that was meant to help industries fight meddlesome regulations. Written by former U.S. Office of Management and Budget head Jim Tozzi and backed by a load of big tobacco money, it was meant to thwart or delay decisions that cost industries money. Manufacturers, for example, could use the DQA to delay environmental regulations that were based on the Precautionary Principle, protecting people before the scientific testing of toxins or whatnot were complete, which could take years. The act was designed to sacrifice public health to save industry a lot of hassle and money.But the idea that regulatory agencies can only act on the best science, which made many environmental and consumer groups nervous, was also easily turned to activist purposes. In 2003, Americans for Safe Access began studying the law for the potential to force the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services - the FDA's parent agency - to change its statements about pot having no accepted medical value. The group filed its petition with HHS on October 4 and, by way of a press conference, staged a civil disobedience at the doors of the HHS building on October 5, where 14 patients and advocates chanted "Schedule I to Schedule III, cannabis is helping me," and promptly got arrested."It certainly seems like a novel approach," says Paul Armentano, spokesperson for the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, or NORML. "In theory, it presses all the right buttons. But when you're talking about marijuana, there's in theory how these things should work and then there's in practice how they do work. But I believe it's the first time that the DQA has been used in such a manner."The Data Quality Act's key provision, which makes it an improvement on the Administrative Procedures Act that predated it, is that the DQA is time-limited, so there's less foot-dragging allowed. The HHS has 60 days from the date of filing to give an answer, or at least file for a limited extension to make a decision. That date was last Monday, December 6. It also provides for judicial review - yes, 'round and 'round and then back in the courts. But this time, it's back to the ASA's home court, the 9th Circuit in California, which is perceived as a friendly venue."If they don't answer us on the 6th, that would almost be even better," says McQuie. "My understanding is that, if it reverts for judicial review, it's in the 9th Circuit, which would be favorable for us."This is the court that ruled in favor of Angel Raich. And which made medical marijuana legal (again) in California. At least, that's what they think will happen. No one's really totally sure. No Data Quality Act case has ever gotten that far.
A Legal Quagmire
Monday's deadline came and, as expected, the HHS asked for a 60-day extension, which is evidently the most they can get before the legal wrangling begins. Americans for Safe Access Executive Director Steph Sherer met with representatives for HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson, and was informed of the ´´ extension and that the petition is under review by the FDA in consultation with National Institute of Health's National Institute on Drug Abuse, or NIDA.
Spokespersons for both the FDA and NIDA declined to comment, saying they hadn't been briefed on the petition. Activists say that NIDA's involvement is a bad sign, however, as the petition didn't ask for a refutation of pot's potential for addiction (which is what NIDA monitors) and NIDA has been one of the most active agencies trying to keep pot on the list of most dangerous drugs.
It's a stall, but under the DQA, the stall can only last so long. Frustrating though it may be, this slog is infinitely speedier than any of the attempts at rescheduling that have come before.
Consider the first petition, filed in 1972. Only two years after marijuana was lumped with LSD, heroin, and mescaline in Schedule I, NORML filed the first petition with the Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement, the predecessor to the DEA, which stalled for three years and then denied to hear the petition. A court forced them to hear it, then the DEA (formed in 1973) killed it without any hearings. A higher court of appeals again forced them to hear it, but it was easily killed off once more. Finally, in 1986, after another exhaustive, grinding court fight, the DEA caved in and assigned the investigation to its own DEA Administrative Law Judge, Francis L. Young.Young spent two years hearing the testimony of scores of scientists, doctors, medical marijuana patients, law enforcement officers, agents, corrections officials and the like, and in 1988 came back with a stunning verdict. In one of the most celebrated documents in the history of pot activism, Young issued a ruling of over 100 pages, saying not only that the DEA must move pot to Schedule II, to have controlled medical use like cocaine and opium, but that "the evidence in this record clearly shows that marijuana has been accepted as capable of relieving the distress of great numbers of very ill people, and doing so with safety under medical supervision. It would be unreasonable, arbitrary and capricious for the DEA to continue to stand between those sufferers and the benefits of this substance in light of the evidence of this record.""And he's one of them!" cries Joe Elford, staff attorney for ASA, and the chief author of the group's DQA petition. "Anyone who does administrative law generally thinks of it as a kangaroo court. It's one of their boys ruling on one of their issues, and you basically expect to lose, and hopefully you might get some relief from a real court down the line. But it was absolutely astounding that a DEA administrative law judge would make such findings and certainly to make 'em so forcefully."Of course, the DEA swept it all under the carpet. It decided that Young had applied the wrong standard, that the testimony of doctors and patients didn't show "a currently accepted medical use." The record had to show controlled scientific testing - which neither the FDA nor the DEA would allow by law.That decision went through five appeals before it was finally dead, in 1994, 22 years after the petition had been filed. But the movement to reschedule saw cracks in the feds' armor and picked up steam. Dr. Jon Gettman, then the director of NORML, filed a new rescheduling petition in 1995. This was finally denied in 2001 - it only took seven years this time - but the reasons why it was denied were more specific and easily attacked. The phrase "arbitrary and capricious" began to resonate. It's a magic one among lawyers, especially those fighting regulatory agencies. The FDA, for instance, has to set criteria to define "currently accepted medical use," and if it departs from them, it has abused its discretion, which is against the law.That's where the DQA comes in. The new petition filed by Americans for Safe Access invokes the DQA to charge that the FDA abused its discretion on three of its five criteria in denying Gettman's 1995 rescheduling petition. Wherever the FDA deviates from its own criteria, it seems they made an arbitrary and capricious decision. That's the legal basis for the case. Plus there's more."That process requires by statute, a full and scientific medical review," says Gettman, who now has a new rescheduling petition before the HHS as part of a coalition. "That review is supposed to cover both the scientific evidence in the petition and everything else that's relevant. Now, what ASA is doing with the Data Quality Act, as I understand it, is that they're arguing that HHS's review of this 1995 petition of mine was inadequate and that it didn't cover all the available information."For instance, how could the FDA have reviewed the 1999 IOM study, which found marijuana useful "for pain relief, control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation," and still denied accepted medical use? It's the White House's own study. Not to mention the massive - and growing - raft of other medical evidence available before 2001, like the discovery of the receptor sites in the brain that show exactly how tetrahydrocannabinoids work to relieve pain.If the FDA is shown to have abused its discretion, this should require the DEA to consider a new rescheduling procedure.At least, in theory. "It gets complicated, and the trouble is that the courts are still sorting it out," says Elford. "The law's only a couple of years old. There have been, at this point, only a handful of published decisions dealing with this case."Indeed, in a ruling that came down on December 3, a U.S. District Court judge found that Data Quality Act challenges were not judicially reviewable. Publishing on that ruling, Sean Moulton, senior policy analyst at good government group OMB Watch, says, "They're [ASA] facing an uphill battle at this point. It's not outside the realm of possibility to get a precedent overturned, depending on where they're going to file. But I think that a lot of the points that [this judge] made about standing would apply to many other DQA cases that might get filed in court."Joe Elford knows he's in for a long fight. He expects both the HHS and the DEA to try every available dodge. It will take months. There's no set procedure for judicial review. But if it all goes through, it could go to the 9th Circuit."We're going to get a much better shake in the Northern district of California," he says a little dreamily. "And from there to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, and then from there, possibly the U.S. Supreme Court. But I'm certainly not holding my breath."Kafkaesque
So, what if pot is moved to Schedule II? It would still be illegal in most circumstances, just like cocaine. But the hundreds of patients who hold a doctor's prescription would not risk having the DEA kick down their doors at dawn. And Michael Teague, for one, would not be in prison.
Like Angel Raich, Michael Teague is not the guy who comes to mind when you imagine a dangerous drug user wanted by federal authorities. On April 2, 2003, Orange County Sheriff's deputies searched his garage in Tustin and found 102 to 108 marijuana plants, about half of them only one-inch high clones. Teague was then 33 and the modestly successful owner of Aqua Chemical, a pool-cleaning service, and the Sheriff's Department treated this as a big score.At least, until he pulled out his prescription for medical marijuana. Teague had injured four vertebrae in his back while wrestling in high school, and as he went through years of treatments it was discovered that he was allergic to aspirin, ibuprofen, muscle relaxers - in fact, most synthetic pain killers. His doctor then got him on pot, and it worked."I never smoked until they told me I needed it," says Teague, speaking by phone from a halfway house in Garden Grove, where he is finishing the last month of what has turned out to be an 18-month sentence. "I didn't get stoned every day. I don't even drink alcohol. I only smoked a few times a week at night so I could sleep on the pain. I've never done anything wrong in my life."In fact, Michael Teague's whole family is full up with cops. His mother is retired from the police department, and his brother is a deputy sheriff. They supported his idea to grow his own medicine once a doctor said it was the way to go. His mother, who was diagnosed with cancer, considered taking marijuana, too, until Michael was arrested. "I understand why this medical marijuana needs [federal approval]," she says. "I'm in chronic pain, and there's nothing they can give me." They all believed they were obeying the law to the letter.State prosecutors agreed, finding Teague's plants were under the limit allowed by law and that he was abiding by Proposition 215, refusing to charge him. Irritated, the Sheriff's office and U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms convinced the U.S. Attorney's office to pick it up as a federal case.Then the weirdness began. Convinced he had a great case for federal appeal, Teague chose a bench trial, freely admitting he had grown the plants. The judge gave him assurances that this would guarantee his rights to an appeal, and Teague expected to be out on bail, since he was not a flight risk or a danger to the community. Instead, the judge sentenced him to 18 months and remanded him to federal prison that day. Seventeen months later, despite the efforts of multiple lawyers, Michael Teague has never had a hearing regarding his appeal, never got into a promised drug treatment program (which would cut his time in half), never even received the transcripts of his trial, which are guaranteed by law. On January 9, 2005, he will have served his full sentence in Terminal Island, while other medical marijuana patients like Bryan Epis and Keith Terry Alden were very quickly bailed out pending a decision on Raich et al. v. Ashcroft et al., which will affect all of their appeals."Once you get into Bureau of Prisons custody, it pretty much takes an act of God to get anything else done," Teague says with a sigh. "I had to sell my house, I couldn't afford it," he adds. "I had to sell my company because they locked me up so fast. I ran it for 12 years, started from scratch. I've owned three businesses, and I've always been successful. I am a law-abiding citizen. I knew that what I was doing was edgy - I'll be honest - but I never knew that they were going to take my company and my house and put me in prison."Teague says now his fantasy is to leave the United States, since it's turned out that the legal system has failed him. Another fantasy would be that pot gets rescheduled."The judge said it's a Schedule One narcotic. I might as well have had heroin, or crack; according to the federal government, it doesn't matter," he says. "And it's still Schedule One, that's why I can't use it now. The judge just made it clear that this is an issue that needs to be taken up by a higher court."Scheduling the ReschedulingWith another 60 days to stew while the FDA and NIDA look at their petition, ASA's Sherer says they'll be turning up the heat, trying to keep this moving, badgering members of Congress, running a nationwide sign-on campaign to join the 7,000 doctors who've already endorsed ASA's effort. You might want to look at that number of doctors again: 7,000. That's a potential blizzard of prescriptions. Sherer, who's recently been working Capitol Hill relentlessly, can feel the HHS beginning its long stall."My feeling is, this is information they've been looking at since 1972. They know we're going to court if we're denied, and they definitely have a strategy of stalling it to keep us out of court," Sherer says. "The bureaucrat's favorite game is the stalling game. And we don't have time for that," she adds. "We have patients who are facing jail; we have patients who are living in fear of arrest. Our objective is to get this taken care of as quickly as possible. If they're not going to accept the petition, they need to deny it quickly so we can move on to the next step.""Just delaying it doesn't help anybody," says the ASA's McQuie. "It's particularly ironic after Justice Breyer's comment that this should be in the hands of regulators, and that Angel Raich should have just taken this to the FDA and then challenged them in court if they denied it. That's exactly what we're trying to do, but they just make it as difficult as possible."*************************BUSHWHACKED!!****************************From: sguttman@...If Fisher is correct this would explain the higher turnout among Republicans when Dem turnout was at record highs!
As reported by the Chicago Tribune, "Democratic congressional candidate Jeff Fisher, who was defeated Nov. 2, said he had seen e-mails
outlining a Republican plot to steal the presidential election. The plot,
he said, involved election workers who created bogus voter registrations.
The workers then rigged computers to show those ghost voters had cast
ballots for Bush." We all knew Fisher had made these claims, but as the
Tribune now reports, "The FBI confirmed that Fisher had filed a complaint
and that agents were investigating."------------------------U.S. Caught Spying on U.N. Nuclear Chiefhttp://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121304Z.shtmlResourcefulness a Crime in Rumsfeld's Armyhttp://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121304W.shtml
More Troops Express Doubts on War Missionhttp://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121304X.shtml
Minister of MarijuanaScott Imler's war with Ashcroft over the cannabis centerby Jeffrey Anderson
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/01/features-anderson.phpScott Imler's voice is less urgent, less ravaged, than it was two years ago, when he was on a hunger strike to save the Los Angeles Cannabis Resource Center, which he founded in West Hollywood in 1996. He exudes tranquillity, now that his struggle and a bout with cancer are behind him. John Ashcroft's leaving Washington, D.C., doesn't hurt, either.West Hollywood officials who supported the defunct CRC, making their city ground zero for the medical-marijuana debate, wish they were at peace. Though city officials have withdrawn support for pot clubs, the U.S. Justice Department isn't done with them yet."I have two more weeks on probation, I survived cancer, and John Ashcroft is stepping down; that's three really good things," says Imler, who since 2002 has faced possible jail time, undergone chemotherapy and radiation treatment, and had half of his left lung cut out. If Ashcroft had had his way, Imler might have died in jail. Instead, Imler is a free man and has joined a Methodist seminary--a decision Ashcroft might applaud. "It's funny, we're both from Missouri," Imler says. "I doubt Jesus is from there."John Duran, mayor of West Hollywood, remembers when Imler arrived on the scene in the 1990s and began running the CRC out of the United Methodist Church. Though the city was fertile ground for gay and lesbian and transgender issues, distributing marijuana to terminally ill patients seemed risky. "We had our doubts about Scott. People thought he was this fringe character," Duran says on the eve of the city's 20th anniversary. "But through his perseverance, intellect and compassion, he moved the debate from the margins. He became a leader, respected by the highest law enforcers in the state."Federal agents raided the CRC on October 25, 2001. They seized computers, medical files, bank accounts, 400 plants and 10 pounds of harvested pot belonging to 900 members of the most aboveboard cannabis club in the country. The CRC, 90 percent of whose members suffered from cancer or AIDS, had received support from California Attorney General Bill Lockyer and Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca. The Los Angeles Police Department and the District Attorney's Office laid off the CRC, which complied strictly with the state's medical-marijuana law, Proposition 215, approved by voters in 1996. Prop. 215 allows pot use with a doctor's recommendation.The Justice Department investigated Imler and later charged him with maintaining a place where marijuana could be obtained. The Drug Enforcement Agency and the Internal Revenue Service filed forfeiture actions against the CRC's building and assets in excess of $1.2 million. One federal judge sentenced Imler to probation and excoriated the U.S. Attorney's Office for prosecuting him in the first place; another federal judge ruled that West Hollywood must forfeit $300,000 that the city loaned the center. The CRC's members now score pot on the street, from other cannabis clubs operating in West Hollywood, or go without.These days, Imler is just as focused on healing others as he was before Ashcroft threatened to jail him. In five years he will be ordained as a Methodist minister. He sees parallels between the CRC and the church. "They both provide sanctuary and nurture their flock," he says. "CRC was a manifestation of my faith, as secular as it was at the time. It's ironic another person who claims faith in the same God came to rub us out."In 1996, Imler, a former special-education teacher who suffered chronic seizures, had come down from Santa Cruz after helping draft Prop. 215, along with activist Dennis Peron and attorney Wlliam Panzer. He started a buyers' club that supplied users with a daily menu, sometimes acquiring the drug on the black market. Patients like Pedro Jimenez, an AIDS sufferer, used pot to choke down 35 medications a day. It alleviated side effects such as diarrhea and vomiting. Imler thought they would not survive as an underground organization, so he met with lawyers, West Hollywood officials and former Los Angeles Sheriff Sherman Block to establish the ground rules for running a cannabis club under Prop. 215. When Baca became sheriff, he insisted that the CRC stop buying on the black market. The CRC took up cultivation and contracted with farmers up in Ventura.
In 2000, after Imler and others put up $150,000 of their own money, the city co-signed a loan from Wells Fargo Bank and the CRC bought a building on Santa Monica Boulevard. The CRC, a nonprofit group, grew to 10 full-time employees and 24 volunteers, with a budget of $1.2 million. It had a database of 450 licensed physicians and 960 members that Imler carefully screened, "to make sure there were no tweakers." West Hollywood further cemented its reputation as a bastion of progressivism. The CRC developed a reputation for fastidiousness and moderation. At its peak it maintained 1,000 plants Đ one per member. Members paid $50 for an eighth of an ounce, but sometimes less because of disability. "We never wanted our volume to attract the black market," Imler says.The city and the CRC attracted a more determined foe. In 1998, DEA agents had posed as patients sporting phony doctor's prescriptions in a sting operation that brought down the Oakland Cannabis Buyers' Cooperative. In 2001, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that medical usage was no exception to the federal Controlled Substances Act. Ashcroft declared open season on pot clubs all over the country, but particularly in California. West Hollywood was an irresistible target. He received support from conservative lawmakers such as U.S. Representative Bob Barr, from Georgia, who declared, "Terminally ill patients have been used as pawns in a cynical political game designed to weaken society's opposition to drug abuse."The October 2001 raid of the CRC was devastating for Imler and the club's members. In the summer of 2002, they went on a weeklong hunger strike to protest what they saw as draconian enforcement of the federal law by the Bush administration. Not only did they lose their initial investment and all the CRC's assets, Imler was criminally prosecuted. "Scott had taken every measure possible to ensure the club could not be abused," says Ronald Kaye, a former federal public defender who represented Imler in his criminal case and the civil forfeiture action. "He knew that nothing should undermine his mission."Imler was sentenced to one year's probation in November 2003. In handing down his sentence, U.S. District Judge Howard Matz told Imler, who by then had been diagnosed with lung cancer, "This entire prosecution was badly misguided. To allocate the resources of the DEA and the U.S. Attorney's Office to [prosecuting] you baffles me, disturbs me." Federal prosecutors in Los Angeles had by then intimated to Imler that they were simply following Ashcroft's marching orders. U.S. Attorney Debra Yang never appeared to resist the mandate, however. Her staff pushed for jail time, and lost.While Imler has moved on with his life, West Hollywood is still mired in forfeiture proceedings in federal court. Officials neither support nor oppose the cannabis clubs that have sprung up in place of the CRC. Wells Fargo has written off its share of the loan to the CRC. Recently, U.S. District Judge Manuel Real ruled in favor of the Justice Department's seizing $300,000 from the city, "in the face of an exhaustive catalog of facts that shows the city had reason to believe it could not be subject to drug forfeiture laws," according to West Hollywood City Attorney Michael Jenkins. "I feel like Alice in Wonderland," Jenkins says. "It is particularly galling to know that there are more than 20 cannabis clubs operating all over the state, including here in West Hollywood."Observers say it is remarkable that West Hollywood remained so loyal to the CRC, even after it became clear that Ashcroft was going to make an example of them. Whereas once they were on the forefront, now they must be passive, which goes against the city's ethos. "There's a level of integrity among the city's leaders that is uncommon for public officials," Kaye says. "The city stood behind Scott and the CRC because they knew the organization was incorruptible. It took more commitment than supporting gay marriage. There was a risk of criminal prosecution. Now they're getting screwed."Reflecting on the ordeal from his home in Silver Lake, which he shares with his partner of 17 years, Imler says he suffered a loss of identity after the CRC closed. "I didn't feel like a person at first," he says. "Cancer was actually a blessing. It broke the circuits in my mind and forced me back to zero. I thought I was going to die."Yet he still has remorse over not reopening the CRC and continuing the fight. "A lot of people depended on us," he says. Perhaps his ministry of faith would bring him back to West Hollywood, it is suggested. "I would like nothing more than to be appointed to a church there," says Imler. Replies Duran, the mayor of West Hollywood, "We'd be delighted to have him back."****!!!IBOGAINE TREATMENT NOW $1500 IN HOLLAND--CALL SARA, 0113134-624-1770 !!!****From:sara119@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] LA Times ibogaine article breaks
Howard,
How many people died in an Hotel room after they have been treated
With Ibogaine?how many died from Heroin over dose in an Hotel room?
How is it possible to know?
Where can I get an info. About Ibogaine death in Hotel rooms?SaraFrom:HSLotsof@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] LA Times ibogaine article breaks
In a message dated 11/28/04 5:19:18 PM, sara119@... writes:
<< How many people died in an Hotel room after they have been treated
With Ibogaine?
how many died from Heroin over dose in an Hotel room?
How is it possible to know?
Where can I get an info. About Ibogaine death in Hotel rooms? >>
Well Sara,
I would say you have to go to the source. See quoted material below.
<<There have been several documented deaths in connection with the drug. But
because the ibogaine was not taken in a clinical setting, the cause of death
was never firmly established. Some fatalities may have been caused by
preexisting heart conditions made lethal by ibogaine's effects. Mash is confident that
there are more that have gone unreported. "There are some pretty unethical
people" giving clandestine treatments, she says. "They just leave patients for
dead in hotel rooms.">>
If Mash has knowledge of ibogaine fatalities and is withholding information,that would seem pretty serious of itself. If she doesn't have such
information then that cetainly leaves a lot wanting for a scientist to make
unsubstantiated claims of this kind. Possibly a letter to the editor of the LA times
might be appropriate to seek clarification.HowardFrom:vector620022002@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine deaths
I don't think this flew under the radar. These deaths have been talked
about here so many times over years of time, at least one or two of
them when they happened. I think the only person with the data would be
Patrick's mom, that Dr. Mash lady ;) I'm not sure the exact reaons why,
I do however think that she is recogised as the worldwide authority on
ibogaine in humans, so whenever there is a death the police invite her.
I'm sure Patrick or Howard could explain better or tell me I'm wrong :)
If there is any 'real data' I don't think anyone is going to hand it
out ;)
.:vector:.
--- BiscuitBoy714@... wrote:
Sara, thank you for asking the obvious. I'm trying to keep a positive
attitude so I won't rant about what was said. Why haven't we heard
about this? Are we suddenly out of the loop? I don't believe that we
are. Seems like someone would have heard about this. How do we know
this wasn't self administered? Is there any post mortem blood work on
any of these people? I'd sure like to see some real data on this. Ifthere is any. RandyFrom:vector620022002@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine deaths
Callie I wasn't being serious I don't get the impression that Mash is
going to chat about her opinions with anyone on the list ;) I'm sure
Patrick has no trouble finding her, he sees her every day and he only
runs Mindvox. I'm sure Schmooly has no trouble finding her. I'm sure
that parts of the list are read by her or even the whole list goes to
some mailbox of hers. I don't think she has the belief thats anything
she does is accountable to anyone else involved with ibogaine.
My impressions only :) I also think that hassling Mash isn't going to
make any big positive change. Years of that and all the lawsuits in the
world havne't done it. Maybe Patrick will get hassled for people from
Mindvox who dare to bother her ;) That will be about it.
Her email appears all over Mindvox, all over the net, University of
Miami, she's not hard to look up.
Sorry Patrick ;).:vector:.From:BiscuitBoy714@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine deaths I have got to speak my mind. I hope I can do so without shooting myself in the dick. This is sacred ground to me. Right here. This list. I have been clean only because of the people and now friends who post here, and those who let me rant without giving me too much shit about it. This is part of my own self imposed therapy. I love the people here. This just my opinion so here goes. Who cares if Patrick and Ms. Mash have some kind of relationship. She's good lookin', I'd go for it too. That doesn't mean that they agree on everything. Personally I don't think Ms. Mash is using Ibogaine in the spirit it was intended to be used with. Seems the pygmies freely gave it to the Bwiti's who then used it and saw the good in it. Our monetary system is starting to screw up the whole works. Money pure and simple makes the world go around. It sucks but it is true. I think Ibogaine is a gift from God. The answer to addiction is growing in the ground in Africa. God is wondering what took us so long to find it. The underground providers are doing treatments out of love. I know because they came to our house and stayed a while. Doing so just 'aint' cost effective. I never saw the inside of a hotel room but desperate times call for desperate measures and some people have no choice other than to take the treatment in a hotel room. To imply that my provider or any provider I have met has anything to do with the deaths gets my southern dander up. These people care about your soul. They are taking a supreme risk and they are most definitely not doing it for the money. I know the ballpark figures and they are not raking addicts over the coals for all they can get. I trusted my provider right off the bat. That's hard for a junkie to do. I'd do it again. I just don't think I would do that with Ms. Mash. I don't trust her intentions. Ibogaine is here and it won't be denied no matter the money. Our government dictates that there will be a struggle over money and the power therein anytime more than two dollars can be made. I think that is why it is still illegal here. Nobody can figure out how to manipulate the system so as to make the majority of the cash. Meanwhile addicts suffer. It is obvious that our suffering is inconsequential to the powers that be. So we take matters into our own hands. Thank God for the underground or I would be sprung right now. I hope I didn't piss anyone off I'm just sayin.' (no shrug) This list rocks. Thanks Patrick RandyFrom:myeboga@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Breathing In that case what is the point of printing a statement about unknown deaths in hotel rooms?
Is it to demonise the underground ibogaine movement???
Do you know that between 5,000 and 10,000 people (at least) die each year in the UK alone from prescription drugs?
How many people would die from od's if ibogaine were not available?
It is also possible to die from water and practically any know substance if used incorrectly. Perhaps all sports should be banned due to the possibility of cardiac arrest?Its about using the substance properly and like water, ibogaine is life giving.
In all honesty, Mash is probably stating a fact that someone has died because of being improperly attended to or not being suitable for treatment as you so eloquently explained in your earlier post. However, all that says is that people need to be informed and aware of the risks and to use providers that are known to be reliable. I also sense she may be exaggerating as I imagine she may be aware of just one case for that matter. Maybe not.The real discussion of course is possibility of life.
P.S. I am not hitting out at you. I am hitting out at the ignorance that is holding back a very powerful healing substance and playing politics with peoples lives.
slowone@... wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:51:42 -0800 BiscuitBoy714@... wrote:
>I want to see the FACTS. Going on supposition doesn't cut it with
>me. I've
>been a junkie or an alcoholic almost all of my life I think I know
>there are
>unscrupulous people in the world. I've been reading this list and
>everything else
>I can find about Ibogaine for a year and a half. Do I act like I
>don't have
>the capacity to retain facts or something? I can't cosign bullshit
>for anybody.
> Randy
What facts, Randy? I don't think there are any generally-known
cases of an ibogaine provider abandoning a dead patient, or leaving
a patient to die, speaking from having looked at 99% of the
ibogaine list traffic since the net was created. Such a thing may
have never occurred. If it did, it is possible that no one but the
provider knows. I find it more interesting to use this issue to
think about what one would do in the situation, for anyone
considering administering ibogaine.From:BiscuitBoy714@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Breathing Sloeone was asking for thought on what if we were the provider. I would use the blood pressure monitor my Mamma has to check his pressure periodically and call an ambulance at the first sign of a heart problem for one thing. Now what is the first sign of heart problems? Kind of subjective at this point. Some things are expected and some aren't. Here's where the ethics come in. I'd already have oxygen on him when the paramedics get there. This guy would have trusted me with his life. I don't take that shit lightly. This is assuming it was a heart problem. How do we know he didn't shoot his regular dose and OD because the Ibogaine put his tolerance back to normal? Ethics again. I wouldn't leave him until he had someone else to sit with him and a witness to the fact that he was OK when I left. I wonder if some kind of release form would hold any water? It's all about perspective. How many people OD or die from drug related problems every day? The patient has to weigh that out and make his own decision. Hind sight is 20 20 and we learn something every day. I think I would take the heat. The publicity wouldn't be all bad if it was defended right. We ought to have a plan in place. Not that I would do anything illegal or anything. Just sayin' (big shrug) Randy--------------From:thethird@... Subject:[Ibogaine] a few questions I did Iboaine about a year and a half ago. I had a big trip w/ lots of visuals, inspiring ones first (i.e. this is what the world is really about, now stop shooting dope and become one with the world), and then the fun house madness hit (or madhouse fun) which was mixed with apathetic speedy visions of humans doing all their worst traits. I went from shooting smack daily to being totally clean for a month or two. But I still had some cravings and knew that if I didn't do something I'd be shooting up again. I wanted to go on suboxone (buprenorphine/naloxone mix) but the closest clinic had a doctor that was almost but not quite certified. So I went on methadone for a few months at a low dose of 35 Mg's, and then switched to suboxone once the doc was certified, which I've been on for over a year. At times I feel I failed because I didn't totally rewrite my addictive tendencies after Ibogaine, even though it brought about a major change and helped me get to a life that could actually be called a life. I have panic attacks and the suboxone helps with those, and the panic attacks get worse when I am in situations where I have to speak in front of a crowd. When I am going to school is when I have the worst bouts of panic attacks, and I am getting ready to go back and finish my degree, so I think suboxone will help with that, but I don't believe I want to be on it for life. So I am thinking about how I should come off the suboxone. I'm interested in hearing anyone's adventures with doing follow-up Ibogaine treatments. My first trip was so intense that I don't know if I could convince myself to do it again, but I am definitely thinking about it. Also, it's been over a year since my first trip and I find myself forgetting some of it. Does anybody have a way to help remember the trip? Another thing I wondered about was the visuals/feelings in other people's trips. I know a lot of people see the spiritual good stuff about why we should stop doing drugs and start our life, but how many of you guys saw bad aspects of humanity? I saw really depressing scenes, people doing the basest animalistic things, things that when an animal does them, don't seem as bad, but because the humans have the capability for higher emotions the scenes were devastating. Also, the bad feeling I got watching these visions was much worse than if I wasn't hallucinating. It's like the sad feeling I would get if I really saw some of that stuff happen was highly amplified. Anyone else have visions similar and any ideas that you get from them? Sorry about all the questions. Pretty nosy for a newcomer! I am just very interested in Ibogaine and am excited to find a place with people who like to talk about it!From:myeboga@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Way, way off topic_Mystical Experience with MDMA + ? Hi,
Interesting topic and important in a healing context.
For me the problem with MDMA is that it opens up the heart regardless of the state of the persons inner world.
I did 3 intense MDMA journeys as part of a healing program and after the last I began to have severe depression which has now well and truely passed. It passed after I went into the details of my specific early life abuse experiences via eboga. I believe what happened is this.
I had spent a lifetime sitting on my inner history of trauma and abuse. Then I had an amazing eboga experience. Then I had the sessions with MDMA. I think, unlike eboga, MDMA indiscriminately opens us up. I think the eboga had begun to unravel me and whatever state of healing I was in (after the eboga), the MDMA cut right though me to connect with my inner self in ways I was not yet ready for (perhaps - I see it all as part of the journey now - luckily eboga was there to complete the work! I can never properly express the depth of gratitude and respect and love I have for eboga.). After, in this opened state and without the same set of defenses as before, I believe I was thrown into deep depression as I was not yet ready for the truth of what happened (and had to block it out along with the emerging pain) and at the same time I had lost my carefully constructed defenses built over a lifetime. Not to mention the depletion of serotonin in the initial stages of withdrawal from the MDMA.
Personally I caution against the use of any synthetic. I am not a big synthetic drug fan. I am however an ardent believer and user of eboga as a sacrament. It has passed the test of time (& the test of my own experience). Synthetics have not.
Yet I received incredible healing on MDMA and so believe its for the person to decide but one should be aware of its potential effects. Its certainly not good to take it repeatedly as the posts have indicated. However, judicious use with a time interval of no less than 3 months, can have minimal physical harm (I understand). It takes 3 months for the serotonin levels to return to normal from what I have read.
Similarly I am not a great fan of DMT from what I have read as I think its a shortcut to spiritual dimensions best reserved for those whose souls have been prepared for the experience. Otherwise the combination of ones own inner demons coupled with the doors which are been opened can lead to serious problems afterwards imo.
The idea that one can experience spiritual bliss without being prepared and without paying the piper is a dangerous one and one reason why many LSD heads ended up fu&/ed as they opened doors beyond their ability to close or to integrate.
Just a few thoughts....
LeeFrom:tomo7@... Subject:[Ibogaine] Frank's call for aftercare suggestions
Frank
I look forward to whatever suggestions or links you acquire from this
community. Better results and greater success in beating addiction seems
to hinge on better use of and awareness of all of these tools.
Here is a links page on a drug rehab site that might provide a resource
for ibonauts and providers looking for better tools and results.
http://www.drugrehabcenter.com/natural-health1.html
Lately words have been exchanged as if we have differences between pro
drugs or anti-drugs, or pro some drug users or anti other drug users. I
enjoy these binary dualities like everyone. Intellectual shorthand is
handy. I get nostalgic for younger days when party drugs were so damn fun,
but that was when youthful adrenal glands could rise from the wreckage far
easier. I think most of us are pro-life and existence, anti-death and
anti-annihilation, although that set of colors was stolen by the abortion
or not crowd.
I encourage experienced users to please share the specifics of what works
and what doesn't, here. Please tend your reply subject-lines to help us
survey everyone's content for the more time challenged participants. I
really appreciate the experienced professionals among us helping to keepterminology and medical details accurate and understandable. The Goddess
has to be giving you points for the help.
For the delicate neurotransmitter balancing act of recovering from
pharmacological or recreational patterns of overuse, addiction or
habituation, I am getting more impressed over time with L-Theanine, as a
200mg. dose taken 2 or 3 times a day away from a protein meal(by an hour).
Google and read up on it. The benzo and SSRI promotional teams will be
jealous when more of you start to learn of it and teach others. I've had
clients not need a booster dose of Ibo after using this steadily for a few
weeks.
Cheers.Dr. TomFrom:slowone@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Way, way off topic_Mystical Experience with MDMA + ?
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 05:38:59 -0800 Lee Albert <myeboga@...>
wrote:
It sounds as though (from what you write) ayahuasca by its nature
is more rewarding in the group experience?
For me it has been.
Yet I would not make
the same observation about eboga - perhaps at a certain stage it
could be something to explore - as the experience tends to be
highly personal - for the most part.
My solo eboga experiences have been mixed. Immediate issues such as
obsessive blocked anger have been resolved nicely, and sometimes Ihave gotten insights into deeper problems, but it seems that eboga
in sufficient dose ultimately draws me to a trauma which I cannot
handle. Maybe someday.. meanwhile I can work on building a better
me. A mere taste on the tongue before therapy is my main use at
this point.
I certainly agree that any experience has its own optimum set &
setting.
For ibogaine I believe that could be a group of caring and
compassionate people who would welcome the person into the world
and compensate for all the pain and neglect that may have been
suffered at the hands of others. The baby physical helplessness of
the ibogaine experience is a wonderful opportunity to learn to
depend on others, for those of us who have been Gollum-ized by this
world.
Economics dictate that this would either be a church or a group
treatment and therapy setting.
In the meantime, the better integration with aftercare, the better.
I am curious what you mean by deep body learning?
Long tedious absorption of the vine, with little or none of the DMT
'light' to take the mind elsewhere, followed by some weeks of
feeling more grounded and having insights comparable to post-eboga.
Possibly it could be like noribogaine if one could take that
directly.
What do you see as its (ayahuasca) ongoing benefits?
Briefly, strength and love, if used for that purpose.
If you read the literature, and the experience reports on erowid
and elsewhere, you will find that the cultures and personal
experiences are all over the map.
Are you located in Holland?
No.
Hope I am not bombarding you with too many questions. Its an area
I no little about but am curious to understand better. What I have
read has not really enlightened me much.
From my reading, ibogaine and secondarily ayahuasca stood out as
entheogens that lead to deep learning about oneself that can lead
to real personal change. In both cases personal experience has beensurprising and humbling.From:myeboga@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Way, way off topic_Mystical Experience with MDMA + ? Dear "not so slow" Slowone
Thank you very much for your reply. Very interesting indeed.
In my own case (apart from 3 therapeutic MDMA sessions after my first eboga experience) I have based the past 6 years of my journey on the sacramental use of eboga to travel the inner recesses of my psyche and encounter the hidden demons of my past. I have unlocked practically every door (I am presently aware of) within me and have experienced nothing short of miraculous recovery. I eagerly look forward to completing the 3 books I am working on to share all the details of what I have experienced.
So I have not felt any need to enter the world of ayahuasca. However from what you write it is definitely something I will explore at some stage. Forgive me if I say (what some may take as heresy) but I find eboga to be a complete cure when used with the right intention, a sufficiently discerning mind and a heart that seeks as its ultimate goal a deep experience of love. Why?
Because it is very much spiritually guided and events in one life fall into place to move the process along if one is willing to undergo the changes and take the risks.
I like what you say about eboga and how it brings you in contact with specific deep issues. (I assume we are talking about low doses here) It confirms exactly what I am trying to promote in my writings: the use of eboga to resolve childhood trauma and abuse and to advance ones spirituality via the growth of consciousness which ensues.
There is absolutely no doubt that ongoing use of eboga is both surprising and humbling. It is also wonderfully liberating.
The part I find interesting for myself is how I went from a scientific agnostic to a believer & admirer of the God and the Goddess. Two great kind (non imposing) and generous entities in my opinon. You could say the perfect parents. And yet with them I sense a humility which accepts me lovingly as I am and allows me to grow from there. Its almost like a growing friendship.
Good idea to use as an adjunct to therapy.
One observation I would make on the healing action of eboga is this. A particular emotion such as abandonment, loss of a loved one etc can be resolved (when the time is right) by an experience of accelerated healing with eboga. By that I mean, the concentration of all the pain is oosed out of the psyche like the puss from a boil and that is something which conventional therapy imo cannot do. That is why I recommend to anyone who is interested in full recovery to invest time and trust in its healing ways. It has many miracles to offer.
Love & PeaceLeeFrom:ms_iboga@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Hi Lee,
I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women! I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE! In the words of Hattie
Wells, UK Ibo provider:
"...As I have mentioned previously, from my experience
of treating women with ibogaine it seems that women
are generally not affected as strongly by ibogaine as
men. There was definitely a difference in reaction to
the substance by the genders...I began noticing a
pattern. Generally ibogaine did not hit women as hard,
they tripped less and generally were up and walking
and talking much quicker than men. In fact in the
majority of female subjects I treated they also
claimed to be experiencing withdrawal symptoms and
thereby complaining that the ibogaine wasn't working.
These results indicate perhaps a faster metabolism and
a quick conversion of ibogaine into noribogaine
thereby reducing the oneiric phase..."
She theorized that this could be due to metabolic
rate, or perhaps estrogen. For me personally, I
believe my body ripped through the Iboga at a
ridiculously accelerated rate, especially during my
2nd HCL experience. Both times, I began to experience
withdrawal symptoms at the 14 hour mark, which went
against almost everything I had read and processed
about Ibogaine.
In case you're interested, here is a link to Hattie's
document "Notes for Ibogaine Providers":
http://www.ibogaine.org/wells.html
I found her experiences treating people seemed to
'gel' with my own experience of being treated. I
would be interested in hearing from other ladies who
have undergone Ibo detox/therapy....love, Julie :)From:slowone@... Subject:[Ibogaine] misc
I came across this:
http://www.entheogenreview.com/Resources/Sample%20Issue.pdf
which includes the only other case I've seen of a person quitting
marijuana after an ibogaine session (I stopped for 2 years a while
back). It is a sampler edition of the Entheogen Review. Articles
include "THOUGHT-SUCKING ENTITY", "WILD CUCUMBER?", "SEXY TOAD
VENOM", and most interesting to me, "Myron Stolaroff Speaks
" in
which the author of The Secret Chief says,
"I have to say that the misunderstanding of psychedelics is
one of the great tragedies of our current time, because these
are such remarkable tools. And I?ll just try to say in a nutshellwhy they are important and also why they are held in
such disrepute. First of all they are important because, as far
as I can tell?and this is after 40 years of work?the main
thing that they do is open the door to the unconscious mind.
And that includes just a fantastic array of stuff. But the first
part that?s uncovered is our repressed material. We push a
lot of stuff into the unconscious because we simply do not
want to know it; we don?t want to acknowledge it. This is
often very painful stuff: betrayals, hurts, things that have
made us feel inferior, and all the kinds of things that make
up what Jung calls ?the shadow.? So all of this stuff is in the
unconscious. But then when we go deeper, we begin to find
some of our more valuable assets, such as intuition, creativity,
and what Jung called ?the archetypes.? Eventually you go
beyond all of this into the transpersonal areas where you can
actually discover that the core of your being is divinity, which
is an amazingly wonderful, fruitful thing to discover. And
what I?ve found?and I think what most of the people who
reach this level find?is that the universe is created in incrediblelove."From:myeboga@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions HI Sandy,
A low dose session does depend on the person i.e. have you done eboga/ibogaine before, where are you in your healing process, what is your true intention, and of course do you have the open heartedness, discernment and sprinkling of humility which allows the soul to manifest and the ego to take a back seat. Otherwise I would be looking to begin with a high dose session to disable the ego if it is a major problem and to clear the ground a bit.
However, that said, in my experience (which is still in an early stage vis a vis helping others in this area), a low dose session of 6mg and 10% less for a woman, usually proceeds like this (for a new comer to eboga/ibogaine):
1. All the commendations still apply regarding fasting etc. However I say to people that you can drink a few drops here and there in the hours leading up to the session as it acts to quench the thirst and prevent uncomfortableness. Its always good to be as empty as possible in the digestive tracts as the energy pushes down on that area. (Fruit & juices for breakfast maybe and begin in the evening. No liquids for at least 6 hours before or more.)
2. All the physical effects are the same (as a full session) but on a lesser scale. You can get up but you feel quite wossy etc. Its very important to be very calm in the first couple of hours to get past the initial reaction to throw up at the beginning. If you feel this coming on breathe deeply and rhytmically until it passes. It can occur quite easily at the beginning as the deep feelings are suddenly touch on. Its also aggrevated by movement.
3. At the time of ingestion I recommend drinking a full glass or two of liquid to help the dissolving of the eboga/ibogaine. (With the dehydration in progress from fasting this quickens the uptake also of the eboga/ibogaine). Perhaps a cup of relaxing herbal tea is in order at this time. In the 40 mins to 1 hr prior to onset, pee as much as possible and be prepared for the possible need at some stage to pee during the session. As the physical effects are less this is not a major problem.
4.My own approach with a first time initiate is, I use the time after the ingestion of the eboga/ ibogaine to converse and allow the initiate to talk or ramble into his or her past and present. As they are usually my friend its not a problem. I try to guide to the areas where I sense some discord or uneasiness. This of course is then picked up by the eboga energy as the energy grows and then the Eboga spirit takes over from this point of departure. The advantage in this is that the person (first timer) feels safer and more relaxed (connected to a human) and is not shocked by the commencement of the energy and where it suddenly takes them as the energy hits while they are still connected to me. (As they are entering a new domain of experience).
5. Having said all that if someone rathers to mediate or be with themself that is also fine.
Session in progress:
I find at present that it is characterised by the unravelling of stored memories offering differing insights to help the person understand their past history in general, especially any periods of the past where they feel confused about or cut off from - where the person can face them. The memories come in overlap and in bits and pieces which is a way to outwit the ego and yet transfer the knowledge.
It is like an introduction or initiation into Eboga and it is tailored to the person themselves. If someone can face uncomfortable truths they will most likely be presented in the context of an overall "moment of reflection in ones life" i.e. the eboga mini session There can be heavy moments and yet these depend on the person's ability to face them at that time. The end result is always a sense of deep insight & direction for future inner work i.e. a kind of personal gameplan. Its a very intelligent process as though one is being handled by an array of spirit guides - which is in fact the case. They (the spirit guides) are able to see the future and the past and know exactly what will benefit you in that moment. There are there via the energy of the Eboga spirit.
Sessions after major-Session:
This is somewhat different and in my own case it usually is based on the synchronistic events in my life at that moment i.e they reflect the stage I am at in my healing and thus act as the catalyst for the area that needs healing at that moment or put another way: the area open to healing at that moment. If a lot of pain is involved, drop right into it and wait. It will pass and you may experience a deep, deep or accelerated healing or you may have to return again to the same pain in a later session. Yet, I do think it also depends on the person and whether or not the appropriate lessons have been learned. What I mean is that the intention has to be there to learn and to move to a position of love. With those intentions accelerated healing occurs and one can note this intention in the way one seeks to understand oneself and others in a loving way. That does not exclude justified anger etc.
Intervention:
I do check once or twice during the session on the mental state of the person to ensure that they are not unnecessarily running away from themselves and entering some kind of ego loop or are not in some place they cannot handle. I remind them beforehand that there is intention involved in facing what ails you and that success does depend on this willingness. In the session I may gently guide them back on track if I feel it will be of hel - generally it is not necessaryp. Otherwise I simply leave them be and give reassurance/encouragement at that moment of checking or respond to any question they may have.
This is very different to full scale sessions.
Post-Session Problems:
Here is the crunch. If one is dealing with an arrogant individual (reflects imo pain / lonliness / anger) then instead of moving towards the heart after a session they can move towards the head which is more a reflection of pain than anything else. (In full sessions such a move is very normal regardless of the person as usually a lot more material has been broken into). However, it is problematic and one has to be careful in how one deals with that. I recommend anyone who comes out of a session feeling sad or hurt to explore their feelings and to undergo as much emotional release as possible. Otherwise a return to the head is inevitable to use thoughts to secrete ego induced endorphins to eleviate the pain. It may not be avoidable.
Time of Session:
Usually about 12 hours for a first timer but can carry on in fits and starts for the next 6 hours or so. (The overall energy is there - not as noticeable - for the same duration as the full session). Once the major part is over I recommend strongly to lie on your bed and as you go in and out of sleep record the memories which resurface from the session. You will be amazed at how much returns. Its like another stage of the process and I would now go as far as to say that this is another stage of the Eboga session: Recall. Perhaps phase 3. (See below - perhaps this is better handled at the 24 to 36 hour period?)
This is very important. To those who have little tolerance for ego work, I would say you are making a big mistake imo. Healing is a holistic process and the ego is not the same as the soul yet it is part of who we are - it is the engine of the temple we inhabit. Everything we do is a combination of the two and so if the ego is unhealed, once we enter it to use it (in conjuction with our soul) it is immediately vulnerable and we are compromised by its unhealed state.
Make these notes as they will be the basis for the next phase of healing within the Eboga Process.
Set & Setting:
I like to play tropical rain forest music in the background and to be as comfortable as possible with little or no light. Usually I put a scarf arcoss my eyes and wear loose clothing.
Time & Aftercare:
I recommend beginning around 8 pm/twilight or dark in the evening as the bodies energy is more relaxed and moving into a different rhytm. This means that by morning 8 pm one is ready to begin the journalling or maybe have some refreshing herbal tea and begin the journalling after. The rest of the day is to be taken as easily as posible as it leads to the next important phase.
The following day is usually a 24 hour holiday of well being.
Insight:
Most of the understanding into what has passed begins to emerge in the 24 hours after the initial part of 12 hours. Perhaps it is on a time frame similar to a full session i.e. 36 hours, except the phases are less intense. i.e. phase one - ego unravelling, phase 2 insight, phase 3 (after 24 hours) calm (Journalling). Its difficult to journal in phase 2 (as one is really in a very special self nourishing energy) but if you can take notes its good for after the session. Maybe this is best to happen after the 24 hour mark. These are things I am still studying and learning about.
Male/Female:
Generally speaking I give 10% less to a female than to a male, i.e. male: 6mg/kg, female: 5.4 mg/kg. I think it is fair to say that woman are more sensitive to ibogaine/eboga than men as men tend to have more dominating egos and less access to the heart, which is the door to the experience.
You may feel you are having a full session on 5mg/kg and if what you are experiencing is similar to what a full session gave you then I recommend you experiment beginning with perhaps 3mg/kg working up to what I would consider a mini session experience.
However, the overall aim is to heal your inner world and that will require different types of sessions at different times.
If you are not a recovering addict you may find that something like the subsequent use of ayuhasca can help alleviate the pain which can emerge as we move through our healing. Apart from this there are other natural sunstances (Kava Kava?) which can infuse the emotional tissues with warmth to counteract the pain that is oosing out. Recovering addicts have to be careful not to take anything which can knock them back onto their addictions.
Trauma & Psychological Recovery:
I think I could be here all day writing and so I wont go any further except to say that a full program will require the judicious use of major and mini sessions.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hope those thoughts help. I have wrote what has come to mind and will change what has been written here. These are rough thoughts. I am very much still learning what applies outside my own personal experiences. I hope in the future to flesh these things out more and to give more thought to them.
I began eboga on major doses. So I am developing ideas for people who have not and that requires more observation on my part. However this much is true: Eboga knows exactly what it is doing.
Safe journey & Success to you,
Lee
P.S. Feel free to come back with any questions you have. I am more than happy to engage on this as its an area I am working on.From:HSLotsof@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
In a message dated 12/1/04 10:45:02 AM, slowone@... writes:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 07:00:56 -0800 Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@...>wrote:
Hi Lee,
I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women! I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE!
Hmm, I thought it was less too - Howard?
In preclinical research females in some species of rats and mice show higher
plasma levels for ibogaine and noribogaine. As Deborah Mash is the only
person with clinical data on plasma levels in blood and has not shared or published
that data, the question remains open. My experience is opposite Hattie Wells
in that I find women better responders but, that may not be a matter of dose.
I will see if I can obtain a perspective on this from African providers.
What we do know is that the three ibogaine fatalities were all women. Two who
had cardiac disorders had fatal responses at 8mg/kg, one a four hours out and
the other at one hour out. The third who did not have a cardiac disorder had a
fatal reaction a 29mg/kg at 16 hours out. Based on general safety doses today
are usually 20mg/kg or lower when provided as single doses. In continued
dose regimens where the dose is added to every hour or every few hours or even
over a period of a day or more, the mg/kg may be higher than 20mg/kg. I am
providing information, not indicating with any assuredness proper doses in women.
While not taking blood levels of ibogaine and noribogaine the Ibogaine
Association may be able to respond on how women respond to doses compared to men and
whether or not they provide the same doses to both sexes. Additionally, as
some persons metabolize ibogaine differently than others, doses in some men or
some women may have different effects than in other men or women. This is
common to all drugs.Howard---------From:rachelradha@... Subject:[Ibogaine] aftercare
Surprise surprise, my mother has joined the 21st
century.
We danced at String Cheese last night and it was
mostly good. Jeff told some friends what was going
on, and it was interesting to hear and witness their
reactions. I abandoned him in the afterblur, and
ended up talking to the Mama Prankster Goddess about
holding up one's man whilst kickin' and learned quite
a lot. Like to take better care of myself! "Ooh,
they get so CRANKY don't they???"
Yeah... for all the stressing I did before the
treatment, preparing about his mood changes
afterwards was not part of my outlook. Got him some
GABA for mood stabilization and 5-HTP today at the
Whole Foods, and also a chlorophyll-oxygen liquid.
This afternoon clouds in the sky look like angels
eating Eboga or peyote over the Philadelphia Art
Museum, and a hawk flies, soaring, to land on the
copper ornamentation at the peak of the building. We
sit on our own perch above the Schuykill River,
watching the wood detritus float and flop and turn in
the little falls. My life feels like I am a piece of
snapped off tree branch, caught in an eddy at the
bottom of a waterfall. Yet I can sit above on the
cliff with my arms spread out, setting sun shining
warm, and wind blowing me into another, altogether
glorious state. Jeff warns me not to try to fly, and
I laugh sadly, wishing that jumping off the edge was
easier for me to contemplate. His hair was blowing
wild, a mane of silver light, and very handsome.
It's good to be not in New York, and out of that
fucking apartment. Even if my mom thinks he has
anemia and I hate having to lie to her.
Anyway, love to all, especially the bitches, as Ishowed myself to be a royal one last night. xo RachelFrom:sara119@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA'S PLACE. Hey Randy,
Thanks for the feedback
Planning to get very busy with work when I get back home. I tell you what,I am home sick.
It would be interesting to hear if the people that reported being raped and or sacrificed whilst under this
Treatment to see if It was only with the ibogaine. and not Iboga.Because at the risk of sounding like I'm off my head,I had strong revelations about a few things,one of being,If you want to disrespect the spirit of eboga and think you can improve on what god has already perfected,then just by taking the one 'working element";I think you rape the plantby taking the Ibogaine and sacrificing the rest. and sacrifice the whole for a part of what was made wholly by alfa and omega,I believe the whole plant should be taken,otherwise it is a sacrilidge and you won't get the full benefit.If only natural and scientific docters could work together respecting each others knowing. Wow ,could you Imagine a clinic set up by a few of you together, Science and natural medicine working together.THIS IS DAY 15, I am still fatigued and a bit scrambelled,low energy,though better than a few days ago. I thought I was dying,like seriously,, I tell you what.it frightened me. .
Low blood pressure,I think,but then maybe that is nessecarry so to take blood pressure tablets could affect the effect of the Iboga.
Getting tired,mentally tired. Love you guys Smiles Jasen.
From:ms_iboga@... Subject:RE:[Ibogaine]Jasen!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jasen,
Glad to hear you are well. You know, it's
weird...I've kinda lost track of time. I couldn't
tell you exactly how long it has been since my
treatment! I know it was about 2-3 weeks after Randy,
so maybe it's 6 weeks, maybe 8. The big physical
transformation from 'sick' to 'well' occurred between
the 3rd and 4th week-ironically, it was around this
time that all the damned methadone was FINALLY out of
my system!
Jasen, this next week is going to provide you with
revelations you won't believe. As soon as you feel
well enough, go explore a new country- hell, you could
even chill in Amsterdam for a bit. Scarf some french
fries with mayonnaise(yummy!), check out some of the
sex museums or hash bars...the world's your oyster.
I'm interested to hear some of your insights...when
you're ready, send me a note, and we can swap some
stories....love Julie :)From:Jeffgd1@... Subject:[Ibogaine] Jeff chgecking in... Hello to the list and especially Jasen and Sara. Just in from a couple a days down in Philly where we went to Rachel's moms after seeing the band that is our passion The string cheese incident an amazing scene is always there and it was a real rush to feel the energy of live music and man the lights during a drum interlude as positively Tribal as in Eboga! for me any how. It was long night but it was great to see folks who knew that I was sick lately (even if they didn't know why) and getting many well wishes and great good hugs. I even told an old friend the entire thing he was blown away and said to me that he thought I was a very brave man to go with it. Rachel flaked a lil post show while in the midst of speaking about Eboga with another goddess who has dealt with big time husband drug stuff and it was a blast to hear she had done it as part of a Stanford experiment back in the day (60 something). She was amazed that we were able to find it as I am everyday
Multiple times a day I praise what a fucking miracle this plant is it is simply mind boggling to me that I am 3 weeks 4 days out of my methadone habit of 50 mgs a day and I NEVER SUFFERED A BIT. Not to say the first two weeks post was not terribly hard but not the same dimension as any other of my kicks. Inever once started scheming the way we do to get relief never once though about copping or even asking her the old meth is Rachy says she threw it out but I am not so sure.This past week week 3 has been seeing improvements a step forward a step back sometimes but I am healing everyday and have been laughing and feeling bit of the spiritual vibe I felt those first two weeks I was spiritually bankrupt it felt and it was a bit disconcerting. I
I am very mush looking forward to doing a full Ibo session again as It seemed that the ibogaine was so busy scrubbing the methadone out of me that my visionsthough vivid were not particularly revealing.
Well, time for one more of my countless baths a true relief they are. Thanks for listening
Freak Freely!JeffFrom:jamilah@... Subject:[Ibogaine] Hilarious--but Dark. Caution-may be depressing.
Some things to Do Before the Inaugural:
1. Get that abortion you've always wanted.
2. Drink your last clean glass of water.
3. Cash your social security check.
4. See a doctor of your own choosing.
5. Spend quality time with your draft age child/grandchild.
6. Visit Syria, or any foreign country for that matter.
7. Get that gas mask you've been putting off buying.
8. Hoard gasoline.
10. Borrow books from library before they're banned - Constitutional
law books, Catcher in the Rye, Harry Potter, Tropic of Cancer, etc.
11. If you have an idea for an art piece involving a crucifix - do it
now.
12. Come out - then go back in - HURRY!
13. Jam in all the Alzheimer's stem cell research you can.
14. Stay out late before the curfews start!
16. Go see Bruce Springsteen before he has his "accident".
17. Go see Mount Rushmore before the Reagan addition.
18. Use the phrase - "you can't do that - this is America".
19. Take a walk in Yosemite, without being hit by a snowmobile or a
base-jumper.
20. Enroll your kid in an accelerated art or music class.
21. Start your school day without a prayer.
22. Pass on the secrets of evolution to future generations.
23. Learn French.
24. Attend a commitment ceremony with your gay friends.
25. Take a factory tour anywhere in the US.
26. Try to take photographs of animals on the endangered species list.
27. Visit Florida before the polar ice caps melt.
28. Visit Nevada before it becomes radioactive.
29. Visit Alaska before "The Big Spill".30. Visit Massachusetts while it is still a State.From:Jeffgd1@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Hilarious--but Dark. Caution-may be depressing. you know the election really blew me away as an NYC guy i thought the rest of the country was at least on the same page but it seems they are downright narrow-minded about any human problems
the 9/11 experience (losing 17 of my union brothers) and all that also prompted me as much as the election do the ibogaine and get off the clinic I had no doubt that in the frenzy of another attack us methadone folks were not going to be a high priority at all
So I figured that I need to have the freedom to get the fuck out of the city this coast and maybe the country.
Now that i have no real strings (my son is in college here but i can deal with that) i really am beginning to see a future that i can live my dream in instead of a handcuffed two payment behind working stiff on the treadmill of debt and working poor that the government seems to think is the ay to be for all the but the rich
As far as progress I feel about 65% back which compared to a week ago is great but it so so so so slow everyday is long and sleeping is a restless hard process.
I have been listeningto a lot of music all my favorites downloading old school Grateful Dead (My first s addiction which led me to end up with about 400 shows in my memories On the road with the dead was my proving ground it did in fact lead me to my addiction but the road there was filled with adventures on the road that i still smile about even the ones where somehow someway the man didn't get us...again to be young and invinsable!
The tunes stir up deep emotion and i attribute this to the ibogaine the miracle plant i am m ore stunned and in awe of what it did to wipe my brain clean in a couple of days of what i look back now as a couple a days of fun tripping though was hoping to have more of a spiritual journey into myself .....
Lee have you found that folks who are using Ibo for a habit have less of a spiritual experience.
I guess that's it Rachel has not been feeling well so send her some healing thoughts please.
with all respect
Freak Freely!!JeffFrom:myeboga@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Hilarious--but Dark. Caution-may be depressing. Jeff,
I dont believe its possible to seriously abuse ibogaine. Yes there are times when one can take it out of desperation and its effects are minimal but its not like other drugs in that it is fundamentally spiritual and if one is working on a clear gameplan to clean up the shit in your life that is where it will eventually take you.Sometimes more, sometimes less. Depending on what you are doing in your day to day life to move forward.
Continued use (imo) should take into account a reasonable time difference to allow the body to flush itself of the by products for one thing. Drinking plenty of water helps and movement/exercise. Time to should also be allowed (where possible) to come out of the downward cusp of the previous session, i.e., it will bring up shit and when you have a sense that it has been reasonably integrated or taken on board then you are ready to take more on board. Ibogaine is just one part of the process. It simply opens the door to the healing spirits to do their work. The body and the person has their own timetable and ability to handle. Therefore it is very personal.Secondly, if someone is feeling shit then once you feel clear in the head and have that sense of being clean from the last session, focus your thoughts and feelings on feeling shit and go into a mini-session with this in your heart, your mind and your whole being. (Beforehand try some emotional release work also - if that seems good to do - get the emotions, the feelings out). Let the energy drop you down further and wait to see what emerges - indulge yourself. Also, making contact, through focused attention, with the spirit entities from whom you seek help, as a mark of respect cannot hurt - asking for help and guidance. Because they are there doing their thing for you.If none of this works, I would welcome (if thats welcomed) a correspondence off the list to try and get a better feel for what is going on and perhaps help in some way (If I can), as there are others factors also, No?
In the end only the person themselves knows what is going on.
I will send some good vibes Rachel's way.
Peace & Love,
LeeTo join the Mindvox ibogaine list just send an email to ibogaine-subscribe@... if you please.Nothing more to it. You don't have to write anything in the subject or text area.-------------------------------------------------------------From: tents444@...http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmmall.htm This page just created! Please forward and distribute widely.348 MMM cities worldwide since 1999!
MMM. All cities 1999 to date. Million Marijuana March. Global Cannabis Liberation in May. Worldwide since 1999. Cannabis events on the first Saturday in May, or that weekend, or thereabouts. Marches, meetings, rallies, raves, concerts, festivals, etc..******************************************************************************To get on the poster for 2005--update your contact details & add your city to this New List:[---snip---]
----end of forwarded email----
Million Marijuana March. MMM. Cannabis Liberation Day!
The detailed MMM 2005 city list at the end of the above
forwarded email has been deleted since it has some private
postal info, etc. in [brackets]. Go to cures-not-wars.org
(eventually) for a detailed MMM 2005 city list for
May 7, 2005! http://www.cures-not-wars.orgA basic MMM 2005 city list with email addresses and
webpage links is here:
http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmm2005.htmDana Beal's MMM email compilations are archived here:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/mmmworld
To subscribe to that email list send a blank email to:
mmmworld-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
The MMM city list alone can be subscribed to from here:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/mmmnet
To subscribe to that email list send a blank email to:
mmmnet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
With less than 5% of the world's population
the USA has over 2.2 million of the world's
9 million prisoners!:
http://corporatism.netfirms.com/rates.htm and
http://corporatism.netfirms.com/world.htm
MMM (Million Marijuana March).
City list and world map:
http://corporatism.netfirms.com/mmm2005map.htm
Yahoo Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cannabisaction
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
Offline 
Send Email