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----Forwarded emails begin.----
Dana Beal <dana@...> wrote:
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 20:31:20 -0500
From: Dana Beal
Subject: MMM 2004 #56: Diebold Steals Florida, Ohio!: Sign Yr City up w.
85 Others on the Global Marijuana March Website/Poster!
Important: get your city on the list for the Global Marijuana March, May 7, 2005!So far we have confirmed 85 cities:AlbanyAlbuquerqueAthensAshevilleAucklandBergenBerlinBooneBoulderBuenos AiresBurlingtonCapetownChicagoChicoChristchurchCincinnatiColorado SpringsColumbiaDarwinDes MoinesDetroitDoverDublinDunedinEast LansingEugeneFayettevilleFrankfurtFt. SmithHartfordHachitaHoustonKansas CityKristiansandLethbridgeLexingtonLondonLos AngelesMexico CityMissoulaMontrealMoscowNashvilleNewarkNew PaltzNew YorkNimbinOgdenOsloParisPeoriaPhiladelphiaPhoenixPortlandPotsdamPragueRaleighRapid CityRenoRichmondRoanokeRosarioRostockSan FranciscoSarasotaSavannahSpokaneStavangerStevens PointSt. LouisStockholmTallahasseeTampaThunder BayTorontoTraverse CityTromsoeTrondheimTucsonTupeloUpper LakeVancouverWarsawWashington, D.C.WilmingtonThere is also some international MMM networking going on at
this CannabisCulture.com message forum:http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=current-------------------------*****!!!Global Marijuana March--May 7, 2005: Updates, Reports!!!*****From: blair@...http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/print/0,1478,3085147a10,00.html
Anderson.... whom Associate Minister of Health, Hon. Jim Anderton publicaly
declared as "dangerous" and whose utilty and service before the court was
questioned by Judge Holderness, won justice for Neville Yates on the
following points. The Police depositions evidence stated that Yate's 'four
pot' grow was sophisticated, hydroponic and mature. The jury trial evidence
and even the prosecution summing up clearly shows that the police had lied and
misrepresented on ALL three counts.
Neville was NOT GUILTY of the evidence asserted by the Police.
Hardly failing justice... and hardly failing Neville.
Did Anderton care to acknowledge that he faced Anderson last election in
Wigram electorate on his dishonest representation of the war on drugs and its
purported success?
He fails to acknowledge his own Health Select Commitee twice recommending the
law be reviewed, or that it clearly states that the 'harms have been largely
overstated'.
Anderson wins on evidence everytime, while Anderton pretends he's saving the
homeland yet its on his watch that New Zealand is the highest cannabis
consuming country in the OECD. Begging the question, just who is pro-cannabis
???
Blair Anderson
50 Wainoni Road, WAINONI
Christchurch, NZ 8006
phone ++64 3 389-4065 cell 025 2657219
Mild Green Initiatives for your liberty, pleasure, health and safety.
homepage http://mildgreens.com
blogon http://mildgreens.blogspot.com_______________________________________________From:gcaldelas@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Legalize Marijuana the Elkhorn Manifesto
http://www.sumeria.net/politics/shadv3.htmlAnn Arbor police won't respect medical marijuana passage
by Richard Murphy / ArborUpdate.com
(No verified email address)
05 Nov 2004
The Ann Arbor City Attorney, Stephen Postema, has declared that the medical marijuana measure which passed with a 74% majority is "invalid", according to the Ann Arbor News, and Police Chief Dan Oates has instructed his officers to continue enforcing state and federal marijuana laws in the same manner as in the past.
From the Ann Arbor News, Medical marijuana vote called invalid:
In a 1977 decision involving a case in Ypsilanti, the state appeals court ruled that city officials weren't prohibited from referring marijuana cases for prosecution under state law, despite a city ordinance that said they couldn't refer such cases to the Washtenaw County prosecutor.
Based on that case, Postema said, his office and police can't be bound by charter amendment prohibitions that conflict with state and federal law. Those laws, he said, will continue to govern marijuana arrests in Ann Arbor.
A response from initiative backer Chuck Ream suggests that, while the measure may not be enforceable, the overwhelming public support of the measure should be considered by the City and Police Department when deciding how to pursue enforcement of state and federal laws.
While Mayor Hieftje has stated that he's personally in favor of the measure, the City Council has not yet taken a official position on the measure. Councilmembers Reid (R-2nd), Greden (D-3rd), Higgins (D-4th), and Woods (D-5th) voted against a procedural motion to put the measure on the ballot in July, after signatures had been collected. All are up for re-election in 2005, suggesting an avenue for encouraging the City to respect the referendum.
See also a response from Rich Birkett to the State Attorney General's office regarding the enforceability of the initiative.This article was originally posted to ArborUpdate.com.*************************BUSHWHACKED!!****************************From: jsmithtko@...Latest News - Presidential Votes Miscast on e-Voting Machines Throughout The CountryVoters from at least half a dozen states reported that touch-screen voting machines had incorrectly recorded their choices, including for president. Voters discovered the problems when checking the review screen at the end of the voting process. They found, to their surprise, that the machines indicated that they voted for one candidate when they had voted for another. Full story online at infowars.netFrom: lawline1@...Stolen Election 2004
In Election 2000, the Bush regime stole the election
and got away with it. Now, in Election 2004, there is
new evidence that Bush and the Republicans have stolen
the 2004 election by scrubbing the voter rolls of
Democratic voters, electronic voting fraud in states
with evoting without paper trails, and destruction of
paper ballots in heavily Democratic areas.
See http://StolenElection2004.com for articles andmore information.http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htmVoting Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Voteshttp://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110604W.shtmlhttp://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00072.htmhttp://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/november2004/031104sameamount.htmhttp://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php? az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1290765&mesg_id=1290765&page=-------------From: writch@...On Nov 2, 2004, at 10:54 AM, michael legan wrote:
> All is lost. Frodo failed. Bush has The Ring.
> =====
> Pax. M L Legan
No, there is another.
If you happen to be in Albuquerque, you will get to see this live on the TV show tonight, but for those of you who aren't, and those whom I have first contacted by hitting 'reply all' to Flipper's message, you can get my semi-regular missives by asking (I will put you on my list).
We are now officially in the darkest hour before the dawn of the new age, as I predicted on last week's show.
What I didn't say last week is that it will result in the near destruction of the USA. If you have any potential for escape, I suggest that you take it. I will call our leader by his official title tonight on the air. He is Nostradamus' third antichrist, Mabus (see http://writch.com/gwb.html for more info).
If you go to the TV show's web site (http://pvnm.org), you will find copious references to the ability to steal votes by computer. This is what will eventually be discovered has happened, but it won't make any difference for us here in the USA. Our fate is now sealed.
The dispensationalists were wrong. Christ is already back, his body is waking now. We are him. It will take abject evil to bring the full awakening, and we are about to see that take its form. Luckily, the outcome will be a thousand years of peace. It will just take a little while to get there. Many of us won't see it come. Don't worry if you leave the show before the credits roll. This is the way the plot will work out. The good guys win in the end. I've seen the script, but I can't tell you how it ends in detail, as it would spoil the fun of watching it unfold.
Unfortunately, in this cut (the "director's cut"), the USA aren't the good guys, but the Babylon spoken of in Revelation (the whore dressed in scarlet, linen and purple--Red, White, and Blue). When it has been destroyed, the thousand years of peace will begin.
As an aside, for those of you who might not be familiar with biblical colorations, when you see the word 'blue' in the scriptures, the color they refer to is the color on the Israeli flag. The navy-blue color we use is more properly called 'purple' in their chromonomy.
This show is best watched from the balcony. If you can move to seats farther from the screen, I suggest you do so now. When the countdown reaches zero, you will not be able to get far enough away fast enough (see http://pvnm.org for the 'tribulation countdown').
At least it is almost half over. There will be no intermission.--------Enter, Mr. Blackwell: Was He Bush's Trump Card In Ohio?
Jon Rappoport | November 3 2004
As all America now knows, Ken Blackwell is the secretary of state of Ohio. He controls every aspect of the voting process, from his office.
It was Blackwell who supposedly told Andy Card that there were not enough provisional ballots on tap to make up the difference between Kerry's count and a possible victory for Kerry. In other words, no need to actually tally those provisional ballots.
We've heard stories that, in Ohio, certain precincts didn't have enough voting machines ready to handle what everyone knew would be an avalanche of voters---some of whom ended up waiting nine hours to cast their ballots---some of whom wandered off into the night, too frustrated to stand and stand and stand. It is ultimately Blackwell that presides over the disposition of those machines.
We know that Blackwell told CNN last night that, if a count of provisional ballots was necessary under his watch, he would assure it would be done in a very orderly fashion: 10 DAYS to prepare the ballots and check them out, and then the ACTUAL count would follow. CNN anchors almost fell into a funk when they realized that it could take a month or more to complete the job. Imagine how such a prospect could have backed Kerry into a corner. Rolling the dice on overtaking Bush during this post-election tally, the media of the nation on his neck for an "unconscionable delaying tactic"---"Kerry is ruining America and making it a laughingstock"---the Republican hounds after him every minute of every day---"the Democrats are creating their greatest moment of shame"---I have to wonder why Kerry finally conceded the election. Was it because he really thought there weren't enough provisional ballots to make a difference? Or was it because he knew he would be relentlessly accused of distracting and weakening "a nation at war against terrorism?" And who, besides Ken Blackwell, has the true number of provisional ballots in his pocket?
What we don't know is: who is Ken Blackwell? Does he have a built-in political bias? Did he favor one of the candidates? If so, how fervent is his passion?
Here is an excerpt from an Ohio government website devoted to the work and credentials of Blackwell. You be the judge. And oh yes, Blackwell is a Republican. Actually, he's been the co-chair of the committee to re-elect George Bush in Ohio.
www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/blackwell/
Chief Elections Officer
As Ohio's chief election officer, Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell oversees the elections process and appoints the members of boards of elections in each of Ohio's 88 counties.
He supervises the administration of election laws; approves ballot language; reviews statewide initiative and referendum petitions, chairs the Ohio Ballot Board, which approves ballot language for statewide issues; canvasses votes for all elective state offices and issues; investigates election frauds and irregularities; trains election officials and reimburses counties for poll worker training costs.
The Elections Division compiles and maintains election statistics, political party records and other election-related records. Statewide candidates' campaign finance reports are filed with the office, together with the reports for state political action committees (PACs), state political parties and legislative caucus campaign committeesŠ
Mr. Blackwell is a member of the national advisory boards of Youth for ChristŠand was formerly a domestic policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation in Washington, D.CŠ Mr. Blackwell has held the nation's highest security clearanceŠHe is a contributing commentator for Salem Communications, delivering commentaries on Salem's more than 90 [Christian] radio stations nationwideŠIn 2004, Mr. Blackwell received the John M. Ashbrook Award given jointly by the American Conservative Union and the Ashbrook Center for Public Affairs. Past recipients of this award include President Ronald Reagan, Ambassador Jean Kirkpatrick and Charlton Heston.
End of excerpt
The Heritage Foundation is a very famous and influential politically-right think tank (and that is only the beginning of its story). Is there anyone in the American Conservative Union who voted for Kerry? Is the Pope Protestant? As for Salem Communications, here is a snip from its website:
Salem Communications Corporation is the leading provider of radio programming, online resources and magazines targeted to the Christian and family themes audience. For over 25 years our core business has been the ownership and operation of radio stations in major U.S. markets. We have also developed a radio network, which offers talk, news and music content options to stations through affiliate partnerships. We own and operate magazine publishing and Internet businesses, both of which share our commitment to our target audience. We continue to look for opportunities to strengthen our leadership position in the distribution and development of Christian and family themes content across multiple media.
End of snip
Now, here is an excerpt from an interview with Ken Blackwell done by PBS host Tavis Smiley (Feb. 5, 2004):
Tavis: ŠLet me ask you before my time runs out here. As I mention again, you are the Secretary of State, but there's a big rumor that you're gonna run for Governor in Ohio and that, if elected, you would be only the second African-American elected Governor in this country since Reconstruction. The first Republican--Doug Wilder, of course, being a Democrat in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Are you really gonna run? And how serious are you about this?
Blackwell: I'm very serious. I've had the good fortune of being the mayor of my hometown. I've been the Treasurer of this fine state here in Ohio. I've been a U.S. Ambassador and an Undersecretary of the U.S. Department of HUD. I think I'm ready to put on the hat of Governor and to lead this state to growth and prosperity and opportunityŠ
Tavis: Let me ask you whether or not you think the Buckeyes, the folk in Ohio, are ready for Kenneth Blackwell, a black Republican, as the top executive of the state.
Blackwell: I think so. The fact of the matter is that folks elected me Treasurer of this state. I was the top fiduciary in the state. That's a statewide election, and now I, in fact, oversee all elections in the state, so when people of this state trust me with their votes and trust me with their money, I think they're ready to trust me to be their Governor.
Tavis: How much campaigning are you gonna do for George W. Bush between now and November?
Blackwell: Well, we're gonna do a lot of work in Ohio. Let me just tell you--Ohio is the battleground state. There hasn't been a Republican president elected or reelected without carrying Ohio, and George Bush, when you factor out Ralph Nader, only won Ohio by one percentage point. This is a battleground state. It's gonna go right down to the last dayŠ
End of PBS excerpt.I'm not making the point that Blackwell is bad because he's a Republican. I'm illustrating that this is a very ambitious man who's positioned as a Republican FOR BUSH and for what Bush believes, right down to his shoes. A man who campaigned resolutely for Bush and THEN oversaw the state election which handed Bush a second term. A man who is a player in the Republican party, who knows the score, who can give favors and then ask for favors back, as he pushes his own career upward.
Giuliani Time? - Ashcroft Expected to Resignhttp://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110504W.shtml2 Marines Killed, Annan Warns Bush
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110604B.shtml
Analyst Raises Prospect of Strikes on Iranhttp://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110604C.shtml-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Join the Kerry Marijuana Decrim Thread:http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=61002&st=435dougkeenanYesterday, 10:58 AM
QUOTE(theweedman @ Nov 3 2004, 10:39 AM)JK will go over and over the results and try to find where he could have gotten a few more votes and I stand firm in my beliefs that THIS issue could have won the elections for JK in 2004.... Just look at the effect and the margin in Montana!
And in Missouri too, which I understand was "written off" by the JFK campaign:
Both pot propositions pass by a large margin
QUOTE
"This result shows that these issues aren't partisan; people recognize that these laws affect all of us," said Amber Langston, campaign manager for the Columbia Alliance for Patients and Education, one of the initiative's sponsors.
Horse, water, drink. Can't say you didn't try, Weedman.
IDB
Today, 02:25 PM
Post #511
Yeah, we offered them the support of our network in Missouri, but I could never find some one in a position to authorize that until Missouri had slipped away, and then (it was September) they told me it was too late to get a response from the higher-ups We had a lot of people in Ohio, too, although it might not have made a difference given the gay marriage thing.
The one thing we were in position to address was treatment for crystal meth dependency. Crystal meth is a huge problem in those states, and I think that if John Edwards had been able to hold out a prospective treatment when he gave his speech on that, (and if he'd done it earlier, and more times) it would have made a difference. We've got this woman on another list who supports Bush because she's right-to-life, and makes the argument dead civilians in Iraq don't matter because those deaths are "unintentional" compared to killing the unborn--but she ALSO supports access to medication that is banned in this country with the continued connivance of the Bush ONDCP because her son is addicted to oxycontin and she knows the only thing that will really work to get him off of it is this other, illegal drug.
I guess she can rationalize this because it's legal in Mexico and Canada. And this is a person who says, "My President right or wrong."
Now, of course, Theresa Kerry can fund the research to get FDA approval without some kind of conflict of interest. Hell, she can buy the patents and develop it with her chump change. Anyone on this list have a conduit to Mama T? Email me. I once talked to Andre, but didn't realize who he was, and anyway we didn't seem to hit it off.In general, I think both Kerry and Edwards should have spent more time campaigning. North Carolina and a lot of southern states were really close.
ANATOMY OF A CRUSHING POLITICAL DEFEAT
By Arianna Huffington
This election was not stolen. It was lost by the Kerry campaign.
The reason it's so important to make this crystal clear - even as Kerry's concession speech is still ringing in our ears - is that to the victors go not only the spoils but the explanations. And the Republicans are framing their victory as the triumph of conservative moral values and the wedge cultural issues they exploited throughout the campaign.
But it wasn't gay marriage that did the Democrats in; it was the fatal decision to make the pursuit of undecided voters the overarching strategy of the Kerry campaign.
This meant that at every turn the campaign chose caution over boldness so as not to offend the undecideds who, as a group, long to be soothed and reassured rather than challenged and inspired.
The fixation on undecided voters turned a campaign that should have been about big ideas, big decisions, and the very, very big differences between the worldviews of John Kerry and George Bush - both on national security and domestic priorities - into a narrow trench war fought over ludicrous non-issues like whether Kerry had bled enough to warrant a Purple Heart.
This timid, spineless, walking-on-eggshells strategy - with no central theme or moral vision - played right into the hands of the Bush-Cheney team's portrayal of Kerry as an unprincipled, equivocating flip-flopper who, in a time of war and national unease, stood for nothing other than his desire to become president.
The Republicans spent a hundred million dollars selling this image of Kerry to the public. But the public would not have bought it if the Kerry campaign had run a bold, visionary race that at every moment and every corner contradicted the caricature.
Kerry's advisors were so obsessed with not upsetting America's fence-sitting voters they ended up driving the Kerry bandwagon straight over the edge of the Grand Canyon, where the candidate proclaimed that even if he knew then what we all know now - that there were no WMD in Iraq - he still would have voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq.
This equivocation was not an accidental slip. It was the result of a strategic decision - once again geared to undecided voters - not to take a decisive, contrary position on Iraq. In doing so, the Kerry camp failed to recognize that this election was a referendum on the president's leadership on the war on terror. (Jamie Rubin, who had been hired by the campaign as a foreign-policy advisor, went so far as to tell the Washington Post that Kerry, too, would likely have invaded Iraq.)
It was only after the polls started going south for Kerry, with the president opening a double-digit lead according to some surveys, that his campaign began to rethink this disastrous approach. The conventional wisdom had it that it was the Swift Boat attacks that were responsible for Kerry's late-summer drop in the polls but, in fact, it was the vacuum left by the lack of a powerful opposing narrative to the president's message on the war on terror - and whether Iraq was central to it - that allowed the attacks on Kerry's leadership and war record to take root.
We got a hint of what might have been when Kerry temporarily put aside the obsession with undecideds and gave a bold, unequivocal speech at New York University on Sept. 20 eviscerating the president's position on Iraq. This speech set the scene for Kerry's triumph in the first debate.
Once Kerry belatedly began taking on the president on the war on terror and the war on Iraq - "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" - he started to prevail on what the president considered his unassailable turf.
You would have thought that keeping up this line of attack day in and day out would have clearly emerged as the winning strategy - especially since the morning papers and the nightly news were filled with stories on the tragic events in Iraq, the CIA's no al-Qaida/Saddam link report, and the Duelfer no-WMD report.
Instead, those in charge of the Kerry campaign ignored this giant, blood-red elephant standing in the middle of the room and allowed themselves to be mesmerized by polling and focus group data that convinced them that domestic issues like jobs and health care were the way to win.
The Clintonistas who were having a greater and greater sway over the campaign - including Joe Lockhart, James Carville and the former president himself - were convinced it was "the economy, stupid" all over again, which dovetailed perfectly with the beliefs of chief strategist Bob Shrum and campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill.
But what worked for Clinton in the '90s completely failed Kerry in 2004, at a time of war, fear and anxiety about more terrorist attacks. And even when it came to domestic issues, the message was tailored to the undecideds.
Bolder, more passionate language that Kerry had used during the primary - like calling companies hiding their profits in tax shelters "the Benedict Arnolds of corporate America" - was dropped for fear of scaring off undecideds and Wall Street. Or was it Wall Street undecideds? ("This was very unfortunate language," Roger Altman, Clinton's Deputy Treasury Secretary told me during the campaign. "We've buried it." And indeed, the phrase was quickly and quietly deleted from the Kerry Web site.)
Sure, Kerry spoke about Iraq until the end (how could he not?), but the majority of the speeches, press releases and ads coming out of the campaign, including Kerry's radio address to the nation 10 days before the election, were on domestic issues.
The fact that Kerry lost in Ohio, which had seen 232,000 jobs evaporate and 114,000 people lose their health insurance during the Bush years, shows how wrong was the polling data the campaign based its decisions on.
With Iraq burning, WMD missing, jobs at Herbert Hoover-levels, flu shots nowhere to be found, gas prices through the roof, and Osama bin Laden back on the scene looking tanned, rested, and ready to rumble, this should have been a can't-lose election for the Democrats. Especially since they were more unified than ever before, had raised as much money as the Republicans, and were appealing to a country where 55 percent of voters believed we were headed in the wrong direction.
But lose it they did.
So the question inevitably becomes: What now?
Already there are those in the party convinced that, in the interest of expediency, Democrats need to put forth more "centrist" candidates - i.e. Republican-lite candidates - who can make inroads in the all-red middle of the country.
I'm sorry to pour salt on raw wounds, but isn't that what Tom Daschle did? He even ran ads showing himself hugging the president! But South Dakotans refused to embrace this lily-livered tactic. Because, ultimately, copycat candidates fail in the way "me-too" brands do.
Unless the Democratic Party wants to become a permanent minority party, there is no alternative but to return to the idealism, boldness and generosity of spirit that marked the presidencies of FDR and JFK and the short-lived presidential campaign of Bobby Kennedy.
Otherwise, the Republicans will continue their winning ways, convincing tens of millions of hard working Americans to vote for them even as they cut their services and send their children off to die in an unjust war.
Democrats have a winning message. They just have to trust it enough to deliver it. This time they clearly didn't.
© 2004 ARIANNA HUFFINGTON.DISTRIBUTED BY TRIBUNE MEDIA SERVICES, INC.****!!!IBOGAINE TREATMENT NOW $1500 IN HOLLAND--CALL SARA, 0113134-624-1770 !!!****From:ptpeet@... Subject:[Ibogaine] (still somewhat ot) Re: [Ibogaine] (OT!) Re: abortion bad, bombing good
Faith wrote >so I probably need to try to
keep my beliefs to myself--especially when it's clear that it won't do any
good to voice them.<
Ahhh, first thing in the morning, and I feel somewhat like a heel.
Please don't ever keep your opinions to yourself Faith, even if someone like me gets irate and irritable with you over your opinions. It's not "right" to let me or anyone shut you up because we don't agree with you. But then, if you or I do voice our opinions, I suppose we both must be prepared for the repurcussions.
So with that in mind, I must say I can't understand how accidental murder is any better than on purpose murder. What do you suppose the police would say if I shot some innocent bystander when trying to shoot the person actually attacking (or not as the case may be) me? That it was ok because I didn't mean to kill the innocent bystander? Isn't that called "manslaughter?"And how you can think by bombing cities and residential neighborhoods our military is only trying to kill terrorists is puzzling to me, and I will continue to wonder how that makes the murders of innocent civilians, paid for with your and my tax dollars ok with you. I mean really, "a difference in thought and intent of heart" changes nothing Faith- the innocent people in Iraq (not to mention Afghanistan) are still dead, killed forever with weapons you and I paid for (along with all the other taxpayers), murdered with tons upon tons of bombs dropped (as well as all the other weapons fired) on the strength of lies we know were told us to justify this current state of affairs (you know, war, war, war all the time, war and death and hate and destruction and machismo, instead of the much more beneficial peace and construction and kindness and helpfulness and love)- murdered by the military that takes so much of our money while telling us it's damned socialism to want universal health care of something, while meanwhile falling asleep (umm, well, MAYBE falling asleep, and maybe allowing that much desired by some "new Pearl Harbor" to take place) during the most horrific mass murder to happen here in my city, as well as on the seat of US military power too.
Personally? I'm a little tired of all the support of death and hate, even if it's justified by some lofty notions of "accidental murder is ok, really, if our President says it's ok."
Remember the defense of those Nazis and "good" Germans Faith? They were only following orders, and the state was telling them it was ok to kill "others" too. But it wasn't, according to the US government, the "winners" of that war, WWII in case you miss what I'm talking about.
Again, you are displaying what seems to me such a common attitude on the part of right-to-lifers: Safe the unborn children, screw those already alive and trying to survive.But whatever your political views, I'm glad you are here at least seeking something to help your addicted child. Ibogaine is NOT a cure, but it is a very helpful substance in changing perspectives about using drugs- sometimes.
In my own very humble opinion.
Peace and love,
Preston
"Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness"
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@...
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor "Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs"
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Faith Bowling" <bchloej@...>
To: <ibogaine@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 12:12 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT!) Re: abortion bad, bombing goodThere's a difference in thought and intent of heart. We intend to kill only the terriorists, but some innocent people will get killed in the process. I have never studied Catholism, but saw, on TV, a priest saying the same thing I feel--about abortion. It's premediated, deliberate murder. But, I have friends that believe the way most of you feel, so I probably need to try to keep my beliefs to myself--especially when it's clear that it won't do any good to voice them.From:ms_iboga@... Subject:[Ibogaine] life post-opiates & question for Randy
Hi group,
Today is day 7 post-opiates, and I'm still not feeling
100%. The symptoms seem to get worse at nighttime-
much worse; however, the days are almost bearable.
It's been four years since I've been clean, and I'm
wondering how much longer I am going to have to endure
these symptoms: insomnia, hot/cold tingles, extremelethargy and weakness, and grumpiness/depression.
Randy, how are you feeling now? How many days/weeks
has it been since you were treated? Do you have any
secrets to share with me?
Cheers,JulieFrom:HSLotsof@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] life post-opiates & question for Randy
While the effects of ibogaine are very distinct to any individual patient,
diminished need for sleep is common to opioid dependent and non-opioid dependent
ibogaine treated patients alike. It may last from a week to a month usually.
All of your other symptoms may or may not be related to ibogaine or
withdrawal. Regardless of what medical condition, that symptoms get worse at night is
not uncommon.
In my miracle ibogaine center we would have a modern hospital to figure out
what is going on with you and Sara to keep them on there toes as she may be
setting your dose regimens for ibogaine and other exotic medications.HowardFrom:mafinman@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] life post-opiates & question for Randy
Hi Julie,
I went through similar stuff for about 2 weeks after. However once I figured out the chills and all only lasted briefly I relaxed . I did notice however that anytime I attempted anything chemical (valium) for sleep my symptoms got worse. I also noticed i felt worse when consuming sugar(way worse, don't mock me people). From your post post ibogaine you mentioned a whole list of drugs that were perscriped for every possible symptom. I believe if i was taking that stuff it would make my symptoms worse. I did some homeopathics for sleep on occassion. Although I noticed nothing worked more than 2 times in a row. My waking time was mostly functional once I calmed down, and ate my vegetables and fruits like a good girl. At a month I was able to go back to work. The sometime and not bad withdrawls lasted about 10 days with sneezes lasting a month. I thought I took longer than most because of my age 51, and years of nonstop addiction 22.
I also noticed not just my opiate receptors were brand new but so was my whole body. I was now sensitive and could not tolerate caffeine, which I drank 4 mega strong containers daily prior to treatment. Tea also. My body did not even want a lot of the healthy supplements I used to take. All I took was a probiotic and my greens. They are both immune boosting. Healing is about supporting your immune system (good healthy food) and not tearing it down(sugar and chemicals). There are some days I FEEL SO GOOD I CAN'T STAND IT.Don't mean to ramble, hope this helps.
If ever there was a good fight, this is it. Be strongMarteems_iboga@... Subject:[Ibogaine] Dear Martee
Dear Martee,
Thanks for the very kind and informative post. I
believe you are absolutely right- the meds were
screwing with my stomach AND accentuating the
withdrawal symptoms; thus, I have discontinued all of
them. And yes, caffeine seems to wreck havoc on my
acutely sensitive system. The only thing I am using
now is Sweet Leaf, which seems to work wonders. I luv
bud...
I have been sneezing like crazy, too- I guess my
system is flooded with histamines. I feel like I have
woken from cryogenic stasis, and I have to re-learn
the way in which my body and senses operate.
Sometimes just one sip of stawverry juice tastes so,
urr, 'alive' that I can barely stand it, and my senses
go into overload. IT HURTS TO EAT, sometimes. The
most ridiculous commercial can bring tears to my eyes.
I guess I am being reborn, so to speak. Beautiful,
yet terrifying..............
Much love to you and to this list,JulieFrom:dave@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] life post-opiates & question for Randy
first of all, congratulations. seven days is awesome.
when i came off of methadone in 98 I experienced the same symptoms which made me uncomfortable, but they were entirely tolerable when i weighed them against what I'd be feeling from a cold-turkey kick.
some things that worked for me:
~get exercise in the early morning daylight, even a 15 minute walk helps.
~eat balanced, healthy meals (avoid greasy/fatty foods)
~drink LOTS of water (take your body weight, divide it in half and drink that many ounces in a day, minimum)
~take long hot bath/showers as much as you can/like
~have sex and/or masturbate. a quick way to generate endorphins.
~if you can't sleep, pretend to. even lying still for several hours will help restore you.
~watch movies, read books... distraction helps tremendously.
~do something kind for someone else, anonymously if possible.~cut yourself some slack and love yourself.
there are a lot of good suggestions in the "getting clean" section of http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/
How long will the symptoms last? that varies from person to person. That may depend on how long, how much and what sort of opiates you were using.
I thought I felt pretty good at 2 weeks out, then when i was 4 weeks out i felt even better, etc. This went on until 9 months later I really truly felt 100%. Then again That was at the end of a pretty hellacious 10 year run, the last 4 a slightly turbulent but mostly tame methadone maintenence @80mgs, but my health was pretty shot, my teeth were crumbling, I weighed 145lbs, I had the pallor of a cement block and my idea of a good meal was a couple cinnamon rolls, a pint of Hagendaz ice cream and several twix bars..._.dhFrom:sara119@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] Dear Martee
Julie,
Please try the ginger tea. I know it will do you good.
Be well,SaraFrom:ms_iboga@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] life post-opiates & question for Randy
Thanks for the kind words, Dave et al....You have
helped to brighten an otherwise dismal, cloudy day.
Does Niacin help with the lethargy? I know it's a
vasodilator, so I'm assuming I could possibly ?? get
more oxygen into my system this way. I have been
dreaming of wearing an oxygen mask, as I keep on
yawning uncontrollably.
JulieFrom:BiscuitBoy714@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] life post-opiates & question for Randy Julie, you probably don't want to hear this but the secret is my withdrawals were mostly in my head. I would try and stay as busy as I could when you are awake. I had a few benzo's the first week but I really didn't need them until well into the second week. Can you get a 3mg. per kg. booster? You are in Canada right? Say what you feel on the list. You did see what a baby I was about it didn't you. The people here pulled me through. I was frantic ready to get Subutex on a Tues., and in NYC 2 days later having a great time. The difference was my perspective. A friend of mine lost her father and Marc pretty much spanked me online and I did what Ibogaine has given me and I changed my own mind about it. I know it's hard and some of the withdrawals are very real but think about how bad it is without the Ibogaine. At this point we are the lucky ones, we got Ibo when we needed it. Hang in there. I'm in Erie PA now and a lot is going on so I haven't posted as much but I will try everyday to see my mail and answer when it's right. I have thought about how you were doing every day since I left NY. I was ready to do a whole Journey again but it all went away except for the non sleep issue. Have you read "For Whom The Bell Tolls? Hemingway got me through a detox one time without Ibogaine. Anything GOOD that will draw you in and keep you reading should help. Go out and find "Women" or "Ham On Rye by Charles Bukowski just ignore the drinking and carousing and appreciate how good the guy can write. If I can think of anything else that helped me I will put it out for you, but I have to go I'm going out to play some music tonight. I wish I had some magic for you but I don't. I just know that it is way better with Ibogaine than without. I've done it both ways. Use your intelligence and stay tuff. RandyFrom:paulab@... Subject:[Ibogaine] need input: trying it on my own Hi everyone from Vancouver: I was supposed to have done the ibogaine but due to changes to the structure of the study the date has moved to January now. I'm becoming uncertain as to wether it will happen or not as this is the third time that something has changed and it seems that my proverbial bad luck keeps on going...so I am in a position of spinning my wheels yet again. At the beginning I was so hopeful and arranged a counselor, started feldencrais classes, started taking fish oil capsules etc....well do I just go into the hospital and go thru detox there and hope it will hold until January ( if the study ever happens) or do I try to get a supply of the Ibogaine, figure out the guidelines, ensure I have people to monitor me etc. I am only addicted to alcohol, but have a social anxiety disorder secondary to childhood abuse. So life has so many triggers that would send me back to drinking to sooth myself. Ibogaine offers me a chance to get over those past events and move on. I am a nurse so I do understand how to go about it and both of the family members are reliable and have some first aid experience. My ECG and liver panel are OK, I'm fifty years old and general health is stable. Ibogaine is not illegal in Canada...and I can't afford to go to another country to get a supervised clinical setting. I went to a couple of AA meetings as there is a small group (5 people) of women that meet here, last week listening to the stories of repeat detox, repeat lapsed etc. made me feel very desparate thinking "Oh my god, I just want to move on and it sounds like talk therapy, will take forever with me detoxing and lapsing over and over, maybe better to just go back to being a closet alchoholic and give up......any help that can be offered would be appreciated......depressed in Vancouver (Paula)F Hi everyone from Vancouver: I was supposed to have done the ibogaine but due to changes to the structure of the study the date has moved to January now. I'm becoming uncertain as to wether it will happen or not as this is the third time that something has changed and it seems that my proverbial bad luck keeps on going...so I am in a position of spinning my wheels yet again. At the beginning I was so hopeful and arranged a counselor, started feldencrais classes, started taking fish oil capsules etc....well do I just go into the hospital and go thru detox there and hope it will hold until January ( if the study ever happens) or do I try to get a supply of the Ibogaine, figure out the guidelines, ensure I have people to monitor me etc. I am only addicted to alcohol, but have a social anxiety disorder secondary to childhood abuse. So life has so many triggers that would send me back to drinking to sooth myself. Ibogaine offers me a chance to get over those past events and move on. I am a nurse so I do understand how to go about it and both of the family members are reliable and have some first aid experience. My ECG and liver panel are OK, I'm fifty years old and general health is stable. Ibogaine is not illegal in Canada...and I can't afford to go to another country to get a supervised clinical setting. I went to a couple of AA meetings as there is a small group (5 people) of women that meet here, last week listening to the stories of repeat detox, repeat lapsed etc. made me feel very desparate thinking "Oh my god, I just want to move on and it sounds like talk therapy, will take forever with me detoxing and lapsing over and over, maybe better to just go back to being a closet alchoholic and give up......any help that can be offered would be appreciated......depressed in Vancouver (Paula)mafinman@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] need input: trying it on my own Hi Paula,
Sounds like you have a couple of prospects going for you there. You're way ahead of some that have no prospects and no hope. I sense hope. Don't let other peoples misgivings let you into that downward spiral. The fact that you have family and have set up things to do to be supportive of the process is hugh. I believe those that do better are doing more than detoxing. Look to your strengths and don't give your FEARS LIFE BY DWELLING ON THEM. Personally I was doing "work " on myself for the last 14 years. I see the ibogaine as the icing on the cake. But I came with the cake. You have substance, strength, skills. Look at all the skills it takes to be a functional addict. One success story I read was a book by James Frey (i believe)"One Million Little Pieces" It's his detox and recovery story without ibogaine. One of his substances was alcohol, so it may have an impact for you in that regard. It's a quick read. Make your decision without a fear and anxt. based mentality and don't put too much into other peoples opinions, if it conflicts with what your gut tells you. You may wind up doing both or one. They both acturally sound like good plans. Just go in with no expectations only good intentions. You are guilty of nothing and need forgiving for nothing. Follow your heart and carry on as you know you can. I wish for you onlly good luck( which is more easily manifested by not acknowledging or owning bad luck), calm and the ability to have a deeper understanding of your true sense of self. rather than what your circumstances have constructed for you.MarteeFrom:ms_iboga@... Subject:[Ibogaine] Niacin and ginger tea
Dear list,
I think I may have found a remedy for the cold
tingles- Niacin. I just took 500ml about 30 minutes
ago, and my body is suffused with warmth, and my skin
looks flushed and healthy; however, it is a little
itchy also.
Niacin is a vasodilator, that not only increases blood
flow, but also lowers cholesterol rate. I would
highly recommend it to anyone in the post-acute
withdrawal phase(post-five/seven days); I myself havespent the last week chilled to the bone, but Niacin
seems to have remedied my situation...I can't believe
how powerful the Niacin rush is!
Sara, the ginger tea recommendation was fab! It's
doing wonders for my stomach and my constitution.
Thank you very much!
cheers,JulieFrom:JasenHappy@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] need input: trying it on my own Hello Dear Paula,
What study are you talking about?
As you said "Ibogaine" is LEGAL in Canada,why can't you do it in Canada?
If it is due to finances,can you get a loan from the bank or a broker,surely family can help,..no?
I had to go to the bank for a loan,I have my treatment scheduled for the 15th of November.
If I didn't go to the bank,I don't think I could have done it(booked in and paid for flights).
When you say,"I am only addicted to alcohol"I think it can be just as tough as opiates,if
not tougher as it is legal,and on every corner,it is also a hard slog.
I hope it all falls into place for you,Alcohol is also a very tough addiction,most of us
understand.As are opiates,Coke,methamphetamines and hey...even sugar.
However,YOU CAN DO IT!
You are much more than you think you are.You are
PAULA.
Sending you a breath of fresh air to inflate the depression.
You are not alone.Smiles Jasen.From:jimhadey3@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] Re: IBO and Benzos Hi All,
I have been using benzos for years. Valium and Restoril. If one is taking a large amount of Valium and then quite abruptly they may experience seziures. It takes 10 days before withdrawal from benzos starts - my doc told me this.
As for Zyprexa and and Seroquel. Zyprexa made me Halucinate, I was to take one pill for a week then move up to two pills a week (37.5 mg). Before the first week I was halucinateing and talking to people who were not there and using the walls to help me walk. I believe Zyprexa is an SSRI drug. Ibo is an SSRI antagonist - IMHO do not mix.
A few months ago a doc gave me Seroquel which is a SSRI antagonist, that didn't work for me either. These SSRI drugs can last a long time in the brain. I would NEVER think of mixing the two drugs with Ibo. But what do I know, it is just my opinion. Thought I would pass it on.
Best to everyone,
- JIMFrom:paulab@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] need input: trying it on my own The study is something privately funded, I applied in may and have been hoping hoping since then first it was august then maybe september, then maybe october, now it is maybe Jan. or maybe not. Because they are funded by private money. No money, No study. By legal I mean you can import it, unlike usa. I have a social anxiety disorder a large one, I function because I must, I am not doing so well, although I try. I thought about going to somewhere else Mexico perhaps, I was hoping that there was somewhere nearer in Canada but the only one is the one that seems unable to get off the ground. I go out to work, and attend a small group for women. Even just that amount of interaction has me exhausted when I come home. I can manage groups of up to 5or6 more than that and all the anxiety symptoms go through the roof, I know that all this stuff is irrational but my emotional brain does not seem to agree, I thought that with the ibgoa I would be able to review the blurs I have from my childhood clearly and make sense of them and therefore the alcohol would be not needed I would be able to move on, I was hoping some of you might have done it on your own. I'm not suicidal and am quite rational in non social settings. Talk therapy means my rational mind knows there is a problem and I can discuss it til the day I die, but that doe'nt change the fear reaction that is not affected by rational thought. First time I have a rough week or something happens I 'll be back to the bottle in a flat instance, after all it worked for me for a number of years albeit not well MY thought here is Ibogaine will help rebalance my brain from the inside out, the outside in stuff therapy etc isn't working But maybe from both sides out and in I can help heal myself....I'm really tired of being in a state of hyperarousal looking for non existant danger because of abuse in my childhood.....The girl who is running the study is I,m sure doing her best. Something that is privately funded by an individual who has alot of other projects, and dreams is a bit uncertain I suppose. The girl was very good and seems determined to do the best she can, but ....I'll just thought oh look something I can do, and then despite jumping through the hoops, finding a therapist, saving all my holidays, planning alternate activities I can do instead of looking at the bottom of a bottle every night. Trying to fill every hole, cross every "T". The rules keep changing nothing is certain, the end is not in sight. I grew up in that situation all those things bring back the despair. Can't ever be good enough feeling yet again. But I think that what they are doing is beneficial if they do manage to do a proper study it might help to get Ibogaine more available for more people....that would be a good thing....PaulaFrom:Schmoolyboy@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] Re: IBO and Benzos Jim. Many of your facts may be wrong. Benzo withdrawal starts much earlier and depends on the half life of the benzo you are taking. Seizures are peaked at 48-72 hours but can occur at any time. Nor IBO actually increases serotonin and acts like super sticky long acting prozac that won't go away. I believe they think it may affect serotonin transport protein.
Low dose zyprexa or seroquel is what I am talking about and I did not suggest to give it post IBO. All IBO candidates should be off Benzo's for at least 7 days prior to taking IBO. Seroquel and zyprexa can help get you off Benzo's and also should not be taken for at least 7 days prior to IBO ingestion.
It can be started at low dosages 48 hours after IBO if needed but I think drug free is better. Many post IBO people start back on there SSRI after IBO w/ out any problems. Seroquel and Zyprexa are not SSRI at all. They are a completely different class of chemicals.
I am off to Spain for a week to visit friends so I may not be able to follow the group.
Peace to all of yoFrom:jfreed1@... Subject:RE: [Ibogaine] Re: IBO and Benzos
How long it takes before benzo withdrawal kicks in depends on what
particular benzo you're talking about.
Longer acting ones like klonopin and valium could take that long, butshorter acting ones like xanax and ativan would only take a couple days..As Shelly said, Zyprexa and Seroquel are both antipsychotics, orneuroleptics as they're sometimes called. They both are belived to work by
acting as dopamine antagonists. They are both "atypical" neuroleptics,
meaning that they are more selective in their dopamine antagonism, and
hence have less side effects, than the older "typical" neuroleptics, like
thorazine and haldol.
Ibogaine is not a SSRI antagonist*, it is a partial serotonin agonist**,
among other things. The reason it isn't safe to take SSRIs and ibogaine
together is because of the risk of serotonin overload, or "serotoninsyndrome" as it's called.From:paulab@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] need input: trying it on my own My understanding is that we humans have two brains the rational and the primitive they are interconnected but sometimes the emotive brain acts without the rational brain's control. ie irrational behavior. Feldendrais helps to balance the two brains by retraining the emotive brain through movement. These are small movements and if childhood issues have given me this response level to strangers, maybe working with the emotive brain will help my rational brain have control again in these situations. He was an mechanical engineer and developed this program thru working with brain damaged people who wanted to get better. The papers on ibogaine state that people that had childhood trama have unbalanced brains one side is more dominant than that of another and after ibogaine there is more balance. I'm thinking that Feldenkrais might start the process I'm trying to change and Ibogaine can only make it better or vice versa. Try a class its usually about 10.00 for a trial(Canadian) I do feel better and more relaxed after, but there is always a placebo effect. There are a couple of site with more info. And you can get a book for home excercises. PaulaFrom:fakeplacebo@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] need input: trying it on my own Dear Paula,
I greed with you but we have to say that as Jung said before "all mankind have shared memory. Jung calls it "shadow archetype" Iboga sessions prove it. Common visions including similiar visions about arkaik ancestors. I believe that our subconsciousness tells us many thing also says about our health conditions. Carl G. Jung is very very interesting psychiatrist but if you don't know about him and hes "Shadow Archetype" you have to read him. Beacuse it's impossible to tell you with my poor English skill.
Best RegardsFakePlaceboFrom:ms_iboga@... Subject:Re: [Ibogaine] need input: trying it on my own Dear Fake Placebo and Paula,
I'm not sure if you have already read it, but "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", by Jung, is a great intro to his life and his philosophies.
Paula, I have done Ibo two times now: once on my own, and once with a therapist. I would highly recommend NOT doing it on your own- so many potential problems may arise. When I self-treated, I basically screwed up the process, and ended up wasting $425 dollars(Ibo HCL is not cheap), not to mention the fact that I had to get right back on methadone, which was a real piss-off. The second time around, I paid about $1000(which put a dent in my pocketbook, but was worth it!) for my treatment, and I have been clean of all opiates for 10 days now. I can't tell you how liberating it feels to be off the 'done- I feel like I'm coming back to life, like I have been reborn.
If you would like to chat, send me an email offlist, and I can (hopefully) answer some questions for you..There are many people on this list who are more knowledgeable/experienced than I, but I will help to the best of my abilities.
Cheers,JulieTo join the Mindvox ibogaine list just send an email to ibogaine-subscribe@... if you please.Nothing more to it. You don't have to write anything in the subject or text area.-------------------------------------------------------------From: tents444@...http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmmall.htm This page just created! Please forward and distribute widely.
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