Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:58:06 -0400
From: Dana Beal
Subject: MMM 2004 #41: Yippie Museum Benefit Last Nite of GOP-con;
Auckland, Oslo, Stavanger, Trondheim Make 28 Cities on the March May 7,
2005!

8 PM Thursday, September 2 '04 -- New York City!

Benefit For The Yippie Museum & End of Convention Protest Party!!

Come and celebrate the Yippie Takeover of 9 Bleecker with the first of a series of benefits to raise money to pay off the mortgage and get the Yippie Museum and Institute for Advanced Protest up and running!

Where:  St. Marks On The Bowery Church

2nd Avenue & 10th Street

Featuring :

Running commentary on Bush's acceptance speech

w/ Penny Arcade & Aton Edwards

Dana Beal reading from The Ibogaine Story

with music by ...

The Buddy Bowzer Band with Sheebo

David Peel and the Lower East Side

Suggested Donation is $20, but no one will be turned away.  For more info contact 212-677-7180 or cnw@...

---------------------------------------------

Important: get your city on the list for May 7, 2005!

So far we have confirmed 28 cities:

Albany

Athens

Asheville

Auckland

Burlington

Christchurch

Cincinnati

Detroit

Dublin

Eugene

Lexington

Montreal

Moscow

New York

Nimbin

Oslo

Paris

Philadelphia

Phoenix

Prague

Raleigh

Spokane

Stavanger

St. Louis

Toronto

Trondheim

Tucson

Washington, D.C.

There is also some international MMM networking going on at
this CannabisCulture.com message forum:

http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=current

*****!!!Cannabis Liberation Day--May 7, 2004:  Updates,  Reports!!!*****

From: shop@...

Hi Dana, please include Auckland, New Zealand, on the list of confirmed cities for 2005. We'll get back to you once we have a plan and venue sorted!
Regards,
Chris Fowlie
 
NORML New Zealand
www.norml.org.nz
Ph 64 9 302 5255
Fax 64 9 303 1309

--------

From: post@...

Hello, Dana!
 

We would like to confirm the 3 cities Oslo, Trondheim and Stavanger in Norway.
 
We are working to get 7 cities this year, as it is our 7. anniversary, as well as the 7. of May.
 
Best regards,
 
Kris K.

--
Norsk Organisasjon for Reform av Marihuana Lovgivningen
Hjelmsgt. 3, 0355 Oslo        22 46 39 84 / 99 32 59 61
http://normal.no                  mailto:post@...

---------------

From: damnrobrob@...

The 10th Annual NY State Harvest Festival & Freedom
Fair / Political Rally

Oct. 8-11, 2004 - Put The Weekend Aside!

Moose River Park
Lyonsdale, NY

Used to be at Echo Lake
Tickets On-Sale September 1st
Only $45 in advance and $55 at the gate
Include 4 days and three nights of camping and
festivities!
Parking is $5.00 per car or $15.00 per RV or larger
vehicles, also vehicles pulling trailers.


Performers To Include:
Richie Havens

The Mix featuring, Melvin Seals (JGB), Greg Anton
(Zero), Kevin Rosen (Dark Star Orchestra) and John
Kadlecic (Dark Star Orchestra)

The Persuasions
Tony Vacca & World Rhythms
Reckoning

Inner Visions
Stir Fried
U-Melt

Caveman
Matt Turk
King Vito and The Sea Hippies
Jar
Bodhi
Unexplained Bacon

Plus Much More TBA

Speakers Include: Rob Robinson (NY State CAN), Don
Silberger (US Senate Candidate - NY), Jen Rog (NYCC),
Carol Antun (Grandmothers for Hemp), Terry Phalen
(Albany ReconsiDer), Burton Aldrich (medical marijuana
patient), Jim Miller (care provider), as well as reps
from the Green and Libretarian parties (and more?!),
NYNORML, New Paltz NORML/SSDP, NYCLU plus more TBA

This Event is rain or shine and include: 2 stages,
vendors, camping on-site, voter registration, free
information, legal hemp products, petitions, great
people, good vibes plus so much more!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.damnsam.com
http://www.nystatecan.org
http://www.mooseriverpark.com
(845) 486-7199 for more info

Rules - No Illegal drugs - No under age Drinking - No
Fireworks - No Dogs - Must be 18 or up to get in,
unless with parent or gardian - No
exceptions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take Care of Each Other and Be Safe

If you have been to Harvest Fest before, you know
better than to miss it. If you have never been to
Harvest Fest before, don't miss your chance now!

This is the famous Harvest Festival that began in the
apple orchards around Lembo Lake in Modena, NY in
1995. In 1997 we moved to Earlton Hill Family
Campground, in Earlton, NY (which was awesome and

featured Max Creek, Vasser Clements, Buddy Cage, and
the Ominous Seapods among others) In 1998 the festival
was held at the Logging Camp (Pine Mountian Reserve -
Garth Hudson, Buddy Cage and others) in Johnsburg, NY
and finally landed in 1999 at Echo Lake. We called
Echo Lake home for five years and are now on the move
again. We have found a beautiful location in the Utica
area of NY. Only an hour and a half from Echo, this
venue is poised to be something very special! You will
not want to miss our 10th annual! Stay tuned.


It is worth the trip!


---------------

From: helmcke@...

Hello. Do you remember me? I am Samuel Martinez Ramirez. I have had a great participation in this in Mexico, do you remember it? The problem is that the two last years, coverall the last year, I was very occupied due to my professional career. .But I'm not yet finish the engineering, I am more vacated this year. I want offer that I am arranged and I want to continue helping to obtain our common objective. I want to participate more this year than the previous ones. I know that recently it was the great march, in which I was present, but I know that we must begin to work in the next march. I know that is a little soon, maybe not and I do not know as you to it handle, but I want to help with the design of the new logo for the march of this year. Logically I would send you prototypes to you before choosing the definitive one .But I need your authorization to begin to work because I have good ideas.

 

I send greetings to you.

 

Samuel Martínez Ramírez

 

From: tents444@...

There are still many cities missing from the MMM photo gallery:
http://www.vienna2004.org/mmm   Million Marijuana March.
 
Please send me photos and I will post them there.
Send links to web pages with photos too.
Photos and links. 1999 to 2004 MMM.

Send any photos you have. Large or small.
 
Preferably uncompressed. Megabytes are fine!
The photo gallery offers the photos in various sizes.
From thumbnails to mega full-size!

My Yahoo Mail account can handle all the photos you can send.
 
There are already many MMM photos and links in the gallery.
Check them out:
http://www.vienna2004.org/mmm 

eco man
 

-----------

********************

*****BUSHWHACKED!!*****

***********************

Woman Loses Brother, Fiancee a Day Apart in Iraq

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082704Y.shtml

Army Report: Gen. Sanchez Approved Torture at Abu Ghraib

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082804Y.shtml

Steve Weissman: Bush and Rummy's Crime in Torture's Chain of Command

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082704V.shtml

Poll: 'Bush Behind Attack Ads'

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082904X.shtml

Bob Barr | Chilling Political Speech

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082804W.shtml

From: revtombrown@...

Was Bush Spy Pick on Agency Hit Team?

"Look out kid, They keep it all hid."
                      Bob Dylan "Subterranean Homesick Blues"

Aug 24 2004-Venice,FL.

by Daniel Hopsicker


THE MAN PICKED by President George W Bush to head America's Central Intelligence Agency is even more of an intelligence insider than has so far been revealed...

The MadCow Morning News has learned that House Intelligence Committee Chairman Republican Porter J Goss of Sanibel Island Florida is a previously undisclosed member of the secret society "Book & Snake" at Yale.

President George W Bush's nominee to head the nation's flagship intelligence agency also appears to be visible in a photograph taken in 1963 in a Mexico City nightclub of members of  the CIA's secret assassination squad known as "Operation Forty."

The twin discoveries come as news reports indicate that Democrats have decided not to make a serious issue of Goss's appointment. The top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee went so far as to warn fellow Democrats Sunday against trying to block the nomination.

"Democrats should ask tough questions of Goss at Senate confirmation hearings next month, but my view is this is the wrong fight," Rep. Jane Harman, D-CA., said on NBC's "Meet the Press."


Heavy on the Secret Sauce

Could the skittishness about scrutinizing Goss be due to a secret past that would have difficulty passing closer scrutiny?

No questions have yet been raised about the propriety of confirming as CIA Director someone who may have belonged to an assassination squad which was reportedly a joint collaboration between the CIA and the Mob.

But questions have already been asked about the influence of secret societies on America's supposedly democratic institutions, especially since both major Presidential candidates belong to a secret society, too: "Skull & Bones."

Because no matter which candidate wins the Presidential election this November, it will be safe to exchange a discreet secret handshake in national security meetings in America for  years to come.

The discovery was made by Kris Millegan, scholar of secret societies and editor of the recent "Fleshing Out Skull & Bones" (Trine Day 2003).

Millegan unearthed a document listing "Book & Snake's Class of 1960 roster. On the list, which also names deceased Secretary of Defense Les Aspin, is the name "Porter Johnston Goss.'

News that America's new Top Spook is a previously-undisclosed member of a secret society who will be chatting in the Oval Office with a boss who is also a member of a secret society raises a question of undue influence...

Or, at the very least, of piling on.

If being able to sing several verses of "The Whiffenpoof Song" is a prerequisite for a top job in American national security, the Founding Fathers should have enshrined it in the Constitution.

Because if it is not, the question is: what gives?


More Secrets in the Secret Sauce

The notion that a young Porter Goss is visible in a photograph taken in a Mexico City nightclub on January 21 1963 was first broached to us in a letter from someone who noticed what he felt was a more than passing resemblanceŠ

"I saw a photo of Porter Goss taken in the 1970's after he was elected to the Sanibel City Council and he looks virtually identical to the Mexico City Operation Forty person!" the letter asserted.

We paid little heed, however, until a profile of the CIA nominee in the New York Times ran a picture of Goss taken in 1984. Even separated by two decades from the time the Mexico City picture was taken, we found the resemblance uncanny.

If  Goss is in the picture, it dovetails nicely with what is known of his CIA career. But it would be a 40-year old 'mistake' come back to haunt him. Because, we learned, there weren't supposed to have been any picturesŠ

According to numerous news accounts, the CIA recruited Goss during his junior year at Yale, where he completed his bachelor's degree in ancient Greek in 1960.  "During his junior year, he met a CIA recruiter through his ROTC commanders," reported the September 24, 2002 Orlando Sentinel, in a story headlined "TERRORISM FIGHT KEEPS REP. GOSS IN POLITICAL FRAY."

"It is true I was in CIA from approximately the late 50's to approximately the early 70's," Goss told recent antagonist Michael Moore.



"Guido, meet the General. General, meet Guido."

The Mexico City nightclub photo reveals a mixed group of apparent Cuban exiles, Italian wise guys, and square-jawed military intelligence types. It was discovered among keepsakes kept in the safe of the widow of CIA pilot and drug smuggler Barry Seal (third from left). It appears on the cover of "Barry & 'the boys:' The CIA, the Mob & America's Secret History" (MadCow Press, Eugene OR. 2001).

Goss appears second on the left. He is seated between notorious CIA pilot and drug smuggler Barry Seal (third left) and the equally-notorious CIA assassin Felix Rodriguez (front left), a Cuban vice cop under the corrupt Mob-run Batista regime who later became an Iran Contra operative and a confidant of the first George Bush.

The only one of the spook celebrants displaying any hint of tradecraft (seated on the other side of the table covering his face with his sport coat) is Frank Sturgis, most famous as one of the Watergate burglars.

Beside him sits (front right) William Seymour, New Orleans representative of the Double-Chek Corporation, a CIA front used to recruit pilots (like Seal), and a man who many Kennedy assassination researchers believe impersonated Lee Harvey Oswald on several occasions when the lone nut gunman was out of the country and so unable to impersonate himself.

As we saw it, the photo was in a yellowed frame, the kind used by nightclub photographers to create instant keepsakes. Seal's widow Debbie Seal kept it in her safe, where it was overlooked by a 7-man team from the State Department which arrived at her house in 1995 to comb through her records.

It bears the name of a nightclub in Mexico City, and is stamped January 22, 1963, which, if you're counting,  was exactly ten months to the day before the Kennedy assassination.

Barry Seal was then a young-looking 24-year old. Porter Goss was the same age.


"You don't have the negative too do you?"

The sensitive nature of this picture was confirmed to us by a person who had known and worked with Seal since 1964, an individual who had obviously been close with the Louisiana native, the basis for the hit song in the 'mid-60's by buddy Johnny Rivers, called  "Secret Agent Man."

Seal's will had named this man executor of his estate.  And his reaction to seeing the picture was instantaneous and shocked. "Where did you get that?" he demanded. "I didn't know there were anyŠWhere did this picture come from? "

Seated with Seal in that nightclub in Mexico City in 1963 are men whose lives and careers comprise a large part of America's recent secret history, we learned. Arrayed around the table were members of the CIA's much-whispered about assassination squad, Operation Forty, first helmed by then-Vice President Richard Nixon.

Barry Seal was one of them. Perhaps so was Porter Goss.

There are many intriguing connections hinted at by Goss's presence in the photo: at the time it was taken the CIA's covert action chief in Mexico City was David Atlee Phillips, AKA Maurice Bishop, who reportedly met with Oswald in Dallas before the assassination.

Other connections: in the well-received "Deadly Secrets,"  authors Warren Hinkle and William Turner name Rafael 'Chi Chi' Quintero, Lois Posada Carriles, Felix Rodriguez and Frank Sturgis as members of Operation Forty, under the overall control of E. Howard  Hunt.

Sturgis, a member of the team that broke into Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate complex in 1972, later admitted to having been part of Operation Forty.

More famous names: Thomas Clines, the notorious Edwin Wilson and "Blond Ghost" Ted Shackley, Mr. Spook himselfŠ all involved with Operation Forty, as was Barry Seal.

"Yeah, Barry was Op Forty," Gerald Hemming confirmed to us. "He flew in killer teams inside the island (Cuba) before the invasion to take out Fidel."

CIA Colonel William Bishop showed author Dick Russell a series of photographs of "Latin-looking individuals. On the backs of the pictures were the words "Special talent 1960-65, Ice pick man ... Butcher... Sniper and demo [demolition] expert ... Propaganda ... Knife man... Pilot and navigator ... Mutilator."

"Bishop said, 'We weren't playing a nice game.'"


"It Depends on Your Definition of 'Is'"

When nephew Chuck Giancana wrote about Mob Boss Sam Giancana's strategic move to Mexico in early 1963, he too touched on Operation Forty. "It was to be an all-out, no-holds-barred Latin American push. Mooney (Giancana) settled into a lavish Mexico City apartment and went right to work, drawing on the expertise and mammoth resources of the recently-formed CIA team of assassins and operatives specifically trained for Latin American clandestine operations. CIA insiders jokingly dubbed the team the White Hand, an allusion to the Mafia killer progenitors the Black Hand."


"Rep. Porter J. Goss has disclosed precious few details of his CIA employment from roughly 1960 to 1971," reported a profile in the Associated Press. Reuters called him a "mystery man," and said he had been "close-mouthed about his past."

"He worked in Haiti, the Dominican Republic and Mexico-tumultuous countries during that decade of the Cold War," Reuters reported.

During a 2002 interview with The Washington Post, Goss joked that he performed photo interpretation and "small-boat handling," which led to "some very interesting moments in the Florida Straits."

He acknowledged he had recruited and run foreign agents and said he would be uncomfortable traveling to Cuba but wouldn't say more.

America's vaunted free press shows no inclination to press him on the matter. And when a citizen becomes a little too inquisitive, disinformation appears to be the order of the day: In a Metro section Q&A in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (Aug 20 2004) a reader asks:

"I know both President Bush and Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) were members of Skull and Bones, the secret society at Yale University, when they were students."

"Bush's nominee for CIA director, Rep. Porter Goss (R-FL.), also is a Yale graduate. Was he, too, a member of Skull and Bones?"

"Goss, who graduated from Yale in 1960, had no affiliation with Skull and Bones, said his spokeswoman, Julie Almacy," the paper's editors replied.


"You're not cleared for that information."

Nothing about "Book & Snake." Not even points for a good guess. The party line rings out from everywhere... "With a prep-school education and a Greek major at Yale, Goss passed up the conventional life to be a CIA spook," reads one typical wire service account.

Actually, the facts lean heavily towards the proposition that with "a prep school education and a Greek major at Yale," Goss's choice to become a CIA spook was an entirely conventional one.

In testimony before Congress on February 9, 2004, Chief Weapons Inspector David Kay noted that "closed orders and secret societies, whether they be religious or governmental, are the groups that have the hardest time reforming themselves in the face of failure without outside input."

When was the last time anyone heard a weapons inspector mention secret societies?

The appointment of Porter Goss reveals that what passes for American civic life may in reality be just an elaborate game of Inside Baseball. For example, Goss found himself paired with fellow Floridian, Democratic Sen. Bob Graham, then the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, leading the joint congressional inquiry into the attacks.

They share another unique distinction: both men were having breakfast on the morning of September 11th with a man who had reportedly wired $100,000 to Mohamed Atta, said news accounts. "When the news [of the attacks on the World Trade Center] came, the two Florida lawmakers who lead the House and Senate intelligence committees were having breakfast with the head of the Pakistani intelligence service."

Oh, to have been a fly on the wall during that negotiation.

After the CIA-backed coup against Castro collapsed at the Bay of Pigs, President Kennedy fired CIA chief Allen Dulles. That same year another young Ivy League graduate entered the high-stakes espionage game being played out between the Florida Keys and the coast of Cuba...

Porter Goss, product of a patrician Connecticut upbringing, graduating from an elite preparatory school and Yale University. This is probably all just coincidence.

But then again... maybe its not.



"Man in a trench coat, Badge out, laid off,
Says he's got a bad coughŠ Wants to get paid off.
The pump don't work, 'Cause the Vandals took the handles"


See: http://www.madcowprod.com for more information.

Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide!

------

From: writch@...

I don't know if you had ever checked out our church site, http://zzco.org, but I saw that bit about 'Canabian Day' and thought that two more cents might be worth the trouble.

The Coptic Church redid their calendar somewhat earlier than the Roman Church did.  We have their calendar posted up on the web site.  It is our official church calendar.  It has its own web page, http://zzco.org/copticcalendar.html

They had a rather unique approach to month-length/year-length/leap years.  They have a full set of months, all 30 days long, and to make the year 365 days long, they have an additional month, called 'Little Month' which is five days long in a normal year, and six in a leap year.  Little Month is a time of celebration and feasting, sort of like a five or six day long New Year's Eve.

The first day of the New Year is the day following the last day of Little Month.  It is the same day every year, and unlike western New Year, it is a day of remembrance of those who have been martyred, and thus is a very solemn day.  It is coming up soon.

Coptic New Year's Day's date (every year)?  September 11th.

Spooky, eh?

-------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------

Join the Kerry Marijuana Decrim Thread:

http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=47055&st=315

dougkeenan

 Aug 24 2004, 09:47 AM
 

QUOTE(11050 @ Aug 24 2004, 09:02 AM)
And I do not know what to do, but I do believe that for some types of personalities, Marijuana is a ..gateway.. drug.

Since you supply no definitions with your claim, I presume you mean the only sensible interpretation of "gateway" - it allows hard drug users (like those of alcohol) to use a safer substance.

 
 
oderator11

 Aug 24 2004, 01:20 PM
 

Just to avoid any new poster problems, here are the forum rules:

SUBFORUM RULES

This discussion is about drug POLICY issues. Discussion or links pertaining to the manufacture, cultivation, consumption, trafficking, paraphenalia or otherwise generally advocating the use of illegal drugs are not appropriate subject matter for this forum and will be removed.

As stated in the Meeting Rules: "You shall not upload, e-mail, post or transmit to, or distribute or otherwise publish through the John Kerry Internet Town Meeting any material which constitutes or encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense."

reeMeToPartake

 Aug 24 2004, 04:01 PM
 

QUOTE(11050 @ Aug 24 2004, 09:02 AM)
Initially I would like to point out that if you are in a country wherein they grow or process narcotics, the fines for possession and use can range all the way up to the death penalty.  So those who actually have narcotics in country... absolultly do not want their citizens using the stuff. 

These are articles from Europe.  What they tell us is that where narcotics are ...allowed... or ignored, there are problems.  I believe that if we look at the examples in Frankfort and Amsterdam, we will discover a course of action that may help us decide what to do.  And I do not know what to do, but I do believe that for some types of personalities, Marijuana is a ..gateway.. drug.



You are missing the point! In a free society I should be able to ingest any substance I wish. If my actions at anytime are an imposition on other free citzens rights then I should be punished. I should not be punished for ingesting an intoxicant.

Prohibition causes more harm to society and individuals than substance abuse does!

The gateway theory is junk science! Where do you start? Sugar, Caffeine, Nicotine etc., There is no proof that any substance can be a gateway to more harmful substances.

I do not know where you are getting your facts. The facts I have seen for the Netherlands is a s follows - Teen Cannabis use half of the U.S., Teen Heroin use one third that of the U.S. There is definitely something to learn from the Netherlands!

****!!!IBOGAINE TREATMENT NOW $1500 IN HOLLAND--CALL SARA, 0113134-624-1770 !!!****

From: crownofthorns@...

There are a lot of different ways to stay clean,
I didn't even get clean with ibo I did it more
then a year after I already cleaned up. I wish
I knew about it back when I did get unsprung
but I did not.

The most interesting thing to me being brought
up is how big a difference it can make to have
access to ibogaine on demend when you need it
in a week, a month whenever you need it instead
of having to pay some huge price at a clinic. I
am not knocking the clinics I am sure Mash has
huge overhead so don't start up Patrick  and
I am not knocking Mexico, but I don't want to
pay for anyone's research study at st kitts or
support some  staff of people at Mexico, I'd
rather get myself 10 doses of ibo for that
price or 25 at Mash's price 

Pass the ibo

Peace out
Curtis


From: ptpeet@...

no offense to anyone, yer right about overhead and all I suppose Curtis, but
I'm right there with you on this one- ibo when needed and wanted, on demand.
what a concept.
Peace and love,
Preston


From: ptpeet@...

>Sooner or later there is going to be people freaking out watching loved

ones in an Ibogaine session and not know what to do.<

V and I had a lovers' spat tonight, and later while discussing it she
reminded me that not only did she go through a fairly stressful time
watching me on ibogaine, making sure everything was and stayed ok, but she
also suspects, as do a couple of people she spoke to about it, that she is
and has been feeling ibo vibrations- hence she too can be and is a bit on
edge, even with all the glow and wonderment and joy we've been and are still
experiencing.
    And boy, I am loving post-ibo for the most part- I feel very fit and
trim and going strong.
    At the same time, I wish my provider would take a look at the liver work
I got done though, even if I did pick it up later than planned. According to
a friend who took a look at the tests I had done, it appears that the Hep C
isn't doing much at all to my liver, in that all counts seem to be anywhere
from moderately to drastically low.
    Cool, huh? Wonder if the ibo had anything at all to do with it. I need
to get a viral count done too though, and that will cost me more than I can
currently afford after all the money I went through recently.
;-)))
Peace and love to all,
Preston

From: carlambarnes@...

What was a really interesting point that Curtis bought
up is ibogaine on demand. That expression has been on
and off here for years but something I have noticed in
everyone who has made it for a long time after
ibogaine and kept going and people who do it and then
don't for some reason is that part exactly.

I keep looking for what the difference is between
someone who made it and when I started staying clean
my role model was Patrick because he was so messed up
and there isn't anyone I showed what he wrote to, who

said that someone like that could ever stay clean. I
thought if he could do it then it has to be possible
because he is doing it.

Then there have been so many people here over the
years who come and go and  if I think about what the
one's who have lasted have in common is, what Patrick
wrote is really true it is all belief. When Preston
writes about what he's going through and where
anything is going in the future and how to keep that
going, that's true for me too.

I'm not all into doing ibogaine as much as some who
are here are, I am thrilled with everyone and it is so
neat to see people who have their lives back but the
hard part comes after what happens next month or in
two months when the ibogaine wears off totally.

My opinion is that from the people who I have seen
last, as different as they are and how much or little
they are messed up, what the ones who have in common
is exactly what Curtis wrote, they somehow have access
to ibogaine whenever they need it, or know they can
get it any time they want and that gives some kind of
mental edge to everything.

That's what Howard keeps saying also, taking control
of ibogaine for yourself. Nothing ever is given you
take it and that applies to how you keep going and
also ibogaine I think. What separates the people I
know who have kept going from the ones who didn't, is
they aren't asking anyone else if its a clinic or
treatment or anything, what they can or should do and
they're not taking it by anyone else's rules except
their own rules.

What it has in common is they have access to ibogaine
on demand 

From: myeboga@...

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Listening to some of the comments I couldn't help but feel that you guys who hold your heads up, even when others are cowardly trying to knock them down, are a great bunch of people. It takes a certain kind of courage to put the best of yourself out there for others even when you fee like shit inside. And it takes a very special person to own their own inner world.

It takes strength. It forges the soul into an instrument of power and destiny.

None of us really know our path. And none of us know why we and not another. But maybe our soul knows and it is relying on us to have the strength to make it through. You cannot say that there is no learning in all of this. Unfortunately, we only fully learn as we heal.

If healing is what we seek then we cannot get off at the first station just as the train is about to makes its way into the mountains of our life.

Single dose ibogaine does not cure addiction. It interrupts physical dependence but once the wound is subsequently snared by events, the well of wellness runs pretty dry and the gaping wound needs a fix. That is why there is so much more to ibogaine or eboga, if you have faith in its willingness to help you. Many sessions are necessary.

I have never been a drug addict. I have struggled with nicotine - a curse on it - but I imagine that the pain I went through and the need to smoke to try and sedate that open wound, is one and the same as the reason why you guys decided to shoot up.

So perhaps its the junkies and the abused who are the real people in this world. Because we at least respond to pain.

We live in a capitalist nightmare. The power of the abused mind when it turns from itself, is very dark indeed. But then I suppose these people don't do drugs. So that makes it okay? Bullshit. I would rather any day be a drug addict than the leader of any group that had no heart and no thought for his fellow man. That is the path of the dark side. And it only goes one place - back into the earth.

So we all have to be brave even when others chose to be cowards and try to pull us down because the new world up ahead is depending on us. Because the meek shall inherit the earth. The last will be first.

Now whoever wrote that shitty email about this list being useless. Would they please put this email in your pipe and smoke it? Let me know if its a good smoke or not? Ok!

Peace,

Lee

From: vector620022002@...

Hi Lee and welcome to the ibogaine list. You walked into episode 4000

or more of the soap opera, it's all very confusing sometimes. G boy is
angry about some party where Patrick, Howard and Dana dissed him or
that's what it looks like. He posts messages and attacks Howard and
Patrick for no reason but not Dana.

Messianic authors who self publish books about ibogaine are always
welcome, unless Dana gets angry about it because he was there first.

Howard is Howard Lotsof

http://www.ibogaine.org

Patrick is harder to explain he's had a lot of lives, to use Dr. Mash's
words he's her son or something  He runs all this and shows up on TV
flashing his trackmarks.

http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
http://www.mindvox.com

Dana Beal takes more time to explain too, he's Dana.

http://www.cures-not-wars.org

Carla has been here longer then I have and I've been here for nearly 4
years. She's someone who got clean through ibogaine. Callie is a nice
person who hasn't done ibogaine yet. Shcmooly is someone from Miami who
is a friend of Patrick's and probably a MD who doesn't spell check.
Gboy is a burner from NY. Preston, Mark, Sean are all newly dosed
ibogaine people, but Preston has been on the list for years and runs
the Drug War list on MindVox and the drugwar site.

http://www.drugwar.com

I forget who else has talked in the last day there are a lot of people
here. Nobody at all is going to listen to you when you tell them what
ibogaine is, most people here already have their own opinions and some
like Patrick and Howard have done it more times then most studies all
on their own.

We need a character guide for this channel

.:vector:.

From: UUSEAN@...

Good 'ol Vector,

You forgot to describe yourself!  I loved your pithy descriptions of the regulars, which ring true to me.  BTW..on another list Preston introduces me as drugged expert.  Kinda liked it.

On a related note, many list members describe themselves as being infected by this list.  Is mindvox. in fact a virus?  A nefarious plot by Lord Digital and his cult to subversively infect the minds of psychonaugts worldwide with the sacrament of initiation?  Maybe Horselover Phil would know, if only I could contact him...

Sean

From: ms_iboga@...

Hi list,

I am a new member, a recent Ibogaine inductee, and am
currently starting the second week of my Ibo 'detox'.
I wish I had a more positive story to relay, but I do
not.  I hope I am not breaking any list etiquette by
posting this...

I detoxed from methadone(35mg) using 1gm HCL extract,

98%, from Ethnogarden, and for the first 13-14 hours
was convinced I was over opiates- no pain, lots and
lots of euphoria/positivity.  I was even able to eat
small amounts of Cheerios and drink apple juice.  How
wrong I was....

About an hour later, the Ibo began to wear off
substantially, and all the too familiar withdrawal
symptoms began to slowly creep in.  I thought it was
psychosomatic, so I closed my eyes and began to
meditate, but to no avail.  Within hours, I was in
almost full withdrawal.

I think my problem was that I puked part of my Ibo
dose WAY TOO SOON, and did not have another gram of
the HCL to boost me.  I am considering weening myself
from methadone by chipping with heroin, and then
detoxing from the heroin with Ibo.  Has anyone done
this?  Also, would administering the Ibo by enema
quell a bit of the nausea?

Thanks for the time to vent, list, and I hope to talk
to many more of you soon.

J.

From: HSLotsof@...

The last thing I would suggest you doing is getting involved with heroin.  Do
you not have enough problems? 

What dose of methadone are you taking now? 

How long after your last dose of methadone did you take the ibogaine?

How soon after you took the ibogaine did you throw up? 

Whether you throw up or not would not be an issue if you took the ibogaine by
enema.  However, if you vacated your bowels after taking ibogaine by enama
the loss of the dose would come to the same thing. 

Can you describe any other ibogaine effects you experienced?

Anyone else familiar with ethnogarden HCl?

Awaiting information and thanks.

Howard

From: stevenanker@...

Sounds like it may have been better to have done it in a clinic, methadone is tougher than smack. You probablly couldn't afford? Can you do it under medical supervision? Was someone with you? In my little opinion vomiting isn't bad. What they do in Gabon is feed it to you until you puke. Part of it, you know... They wait and see what you are seeing and then if you need more, more is fed. Until you puke again. HCL is very different from the bark though. Are you back on opiates? Plenty of ibo/methadone folk out there who have some sage advice. And no, very excellent that you posted with honesty, no rules broken.

Take care,
Steve.

From: carlambarnes@...

Besides all of what Howard wrote down, the other
problem could be ethnogarden. At least on time every 3
months there is someone on this list who uses their
ibogaine and isn't happy with it. I think the last one
was Brooke the one who does Broken Saints.
http://www.brokensaints.com How are you doing Brooke?

Then someone else asked if there was ever even one
person on this list who had a good experience with
their ibogaine and nobody said anything. I know the
person jason who runs the site posted photos of
ibogaine plants here and was a nice guy but so far
there hasn't been even one person here who used their
ibogaine and got good resuls.

Is there one person? Anyone?

Carla B

From: CallieMimosa@...

Carla, you are correct. I know I remember one other person who was very disappointed with the lack of results he got from Ethnogarden Ibogaine.
I have not done Ibogaine but what J describes sounds like he took a very weak dose. He was experiencing euphoria and positivity and even able to eat. The other recent accounts of Ibogaine do not describe those feelings until after the visions and ataxia are over.
I would be willing to bet that it may very well be Ibogaine they are selling but a very weakened maybe even 'stepped on' version.
I am sorry J. I know it must be very disappointing to get hyped up to only be let down.
I do agree with Howard as far as the heroin goes. If you can continue your Methadone, that is what I would do. I just don't ever plan to do H again. I have come so close to death by OD a couple of times I would be too frightened to do it again. (unless I was real sick!!!) Seriously, I would avoid heroin as long as I could.
Please keep us posted.
Peace, Callie
 
From: ptpeet@...

I just found out (while hanging around Tomkins Square Park on set all day
Monday doing nothing but watching and bumping into a mess of messed up

people I used to get high with almost a decade ago) Bobbie Bratts overdosed
last year- (a local junkie/punk rocker who was around for ever and did
prison time for killing a dope dealer who hit his girlfriend years and years
ago) he had wanted to get off his methadone for ages, and apparently finally
just stopped taking it. Sick, he copped a couple bags, shot them both and
went right the fuck out. This was a guy who could bang 8 bag at a clip
without blinking, no problem at all. But after having been on the meth for
so long, then putting himself into a drastically stressed, weakened state by
cold-kicking meth, his resistance was shot to hell to excuse a pun- or who
really knows why he died that time and not others? That's another thing-
it's impossible to know with street dope what it is going to take to kill.
It could be for so many different reasons too, not just because of purity or
steppedonedness conditions.
Peace and love,
Preston

From: UUSEAN@...

Preston,

As one who ODd four times this year, I can testify to what you say.  My harm reduction was sniffing instead of banging....until I got to now where I don't use the shit at all.

I have been to at least five funerals of friends who overdosed and died because they shot up after being detected.  Heroin is no fucking joke, as most of here know.

Sean

From: ms_iboga@...

Hi Howard,

I waited  about 30 hours from the time of my last
methadone dosage.  I took 100-200mg test dosage,
waited 20 minutes, and then took about 500mg, which I

promptly threw up about an hour later.  I think that
was my problem- I didn't stagger my doses enough, and
my body couldn't take it.  I should also mention that
I had been fasting for 24 hours.

Positive Notes: I had fantastic visuals- better than

any other psychotropic substance I have ever touched.
Faces of African and Native American people whirled by
my mind's eye, and a lot of interesting 3D effects:
cubes, Escher-type staircases.  VERY COOL.  I also

felt like I made peace with a few moments from my
past.  All in all, very therapeutic, while it lasted.

I would like to take Ibogaine again.  I DEFINITELY
noticed the withdrawal attenuating effects for the
first 14 hours.  I believe that under the right
circumstances, Ibogaine could be an incredible healing
power....

Thanks Howard,

J.

From: HSLotsof@...

You don't account for 1000mg that you indicated in your first post.  That
being said, how did you determine 1000mg was the dose for you?  And What dose of
methadone are you now taking?  Same? Less? More?  And why that amount?

How long was it before you were able to sleep?  Did you take a sedative?
What is your age?  What is your weight?

Exactly describe your withdrawal signs.  You can go to
http://ibogaine.org/manual.html#withdraw to check charts for objective and subjective opioid
withdrawal signs.

Thanks

Howard

From: robertalapiak@...

Could you please tell me if you were detoxed from methadone? Changing from methadone is a bad idea I think, I don't think you are going to be able to taper down from it I've had that idea so many times but it has never worked out for me.

Did the ethnogarden work to detox you and then after this you need another dose? I am trying to understand what everyone is saying. Did you get past the sickness or were you in complete withdrawl? Are you on a lower dose now or did it stay at the same level?

Did anything change for the better is what I mean?

I used the mindvox site, those lines at the top that were called a cosmic 8 ball, everything it gave me is not positive. Maybe it knows how I feel, I'm not sure I needed this much confirmation.

MindVox: Last Exit For The Lost

"...Feeling like a Freak on a Leash / Feeling like I Have no Release..."
Slipping into Darkness
a Wholly Owned Subsidiary of I'm Dead & Incoherent Technologies, Inc.
"...Things have Never been so Swell / And I have Never Felt so Well..."
"Be careful when casting out demons, lest you get rid of that which is best in yourself."
"Blank Stare . Disrepair . There's a Big Black Hole . Gonna Eat Me Up . Someday"
When you're tired of the Lesser of Two Evils: Cthulhu for President

"... .. . Think About . How many Times . I have Fallen . .. ..."
Hooray Drugs!
"Sick of your religions ... Full of shit opinions ... So tired of waiting to die."
" . Open up your Hate . and Let it Flow into Me . "
Dopefiend Blues
War is Peace / Slavery is Freedom / Ignorance is Strength : Vote Bush!

From: epoptica@...

>Hi J,


How soon did you puke would be my first question. If it was in the first
couple of hours then you could well have lost a substantial amount.

However what you have experienced is not uncommon. During  my experience as
a facilitator I have seen or heard about what you have described (ie the
onset of withdrawals) several times and to be honest more often with women
than men.

Which is something I would like to start enquiring about on this list. How
many women using methadone have done ibogaine and how were their
experiences?? D0oes anyone else have anything to say about this?

Generally methadone does seem to be harder to detox than heroin with
ibogaine. Ibogaine will either completely eliminate or at least severely
reduce heroin withdrawal symptoms whereas with methadone it very rarely
completely eliminates them and more often than not when the ibogaine wears
off withdrawals kick in, although are usually severely reduced and last for
a far shorter time.

I am not recommending that you use heroin, rather that if you can, do
ibogaine with an experienced sitter who will be able to help ease the
withdrawals and help remedy the situation. There are  a number of different

ways of dealing with this situation if and when it arises and each
facilitator would probably give different advice.

Hattie

From: mcorcoran27@...

I can't remember what day  for me it is anymore so no more of that day 29 day 30 shit.  All I do know is this has been the longest time I've not been under the influence of dope in one form or another. I quit smoking on Tuesday and believe it or not I'm finding its harder to stop somking that it is for me to not shoot dope, a lot harder. But I think one of the gifts I got from my ibogaine experience was the ability to exert some kind of impulse control, something I could never do in the past, which has made it a million times easier. This feeling of not wanting to harm my body anymore is just so different than anything I've ever felt before. I see myself getting stronger and looking better everyday and the motivation I get from that is tremendous. So much more profound than the illusion of dope.  A REAL warmth.
Thanks. -M.

From: ms_iboga@...

Howard,

Hi.  I decided on 1000mg based on my weight- 15-20mg
per kg of weight.  I am 58 kilos, (roughly 125 lb),
5'7", and 26yo.

I was able to lop a bit off my methadone dosage, from
35ml to about 20ml now, but I must honestly say, I
felt the drop, but only somewhat.

I was not able to sleep for approximately 48-50 hours
after ingesting Ibo, and even then it was one hour
naps here and there.  I should also mention I
continued to see trails for almost 3 full days.

I do not take sedatives, but I did smoke some weed to
promote sleep and appetite.  About the 1000mg- took
test dosage of 100-200mg; waited, then boosted with
about 500mg; vomited one hour later, but started to
'trip' on the Ibo, so waited; At around the 8 hour
mark, took remaining 300-400mg.  Everything was fine
until hour 14/15, when withdrawal symptoms started to
kick in.

I checked the Ibogaine therapy manual- I had all
symptoms except vomiting: muscle aches, yawning,
hot/cold flashes, restlessness, and a general sense of
malaise.  After about 10 hours of this, I took a sip
from my meth bottle(about 10mg??), and within 30
minutes these symptoms began to disappear.  I believe
that vomiting was my sole problem.

I don't think Ethnogarden is too blame, I think my
stomach is to blame.  I talked to my pharmacist, and
he said that Ibogaine works much better with heroin
addiction interruption than meth- this is why I was
thinking about quitting methadone by chipping H, and
then getting off H with the Ibogaine.

Sorry to ramble,
J.

From: HSLotsof@...

First let me say that ibogaine did work.  Your dose of methadone is reduced

from 35mg/day to 20/mg/day.

There are a lot of theoretical approaches to ibogaine dosing. And ibogaine is
an experimental medication and so are its dosing regimens. Just look at all
the dosing variations among all the different ibogaine providers.  Possibly,
the dosing regimens will always be somewhat experimental as the patients coming
in for treatment are on different doses of different drugs and bring their own
pharmacodynamics to the treatment environment as well.  Given that many
patients are not locked into time constraints there is nothing to preclude moving
more slowly rather than more quickly.  For instance, a patient on 20mg/day of
methadone may take a 500mg dose of ibogaine to determine if the methadone dose
may then be reduced to 10mg/day.  A week or two later it would not seem
improbable to take a full therapeutic dose to stop methadone altogether.  It is too
bad that ibogaine is not available as an approved medication by providers who
are able to observe and treat their patients over time.  Observation of the
patient is the key to the practice of shamanism and western medicine.

The issue of the 14/15 hours withdrawal is an interesting one and should be
looked into and reported on by providers. Whether heroin or methadone generally
the first 12 hours are not a problem in any way.  Complaints do arise about
hour 16 but, usually not full blown withdrawal.  I have treated a number of
persons who claimed withdrawal but, after discussion and analysis recognized they

were not experiencing withdrawal. On the other hand if you are in withdrawal
you are in withdrawal.  On the issue of methadone doses, did your dose
normally hold you for a full 24 hours?

Setting the issues of doses of methadone aside, how do you feel?

I am also curious if anyone is using reglan (metoclopramide) as an
antinauseant and what effects are being seen?

Howard

From: ms_iboga@...

Howard et al,

Thanks for the responses.  I appreciate everyone's
input. Being able to cut my dosage was great, but I
DID feel the drop- it was not painless.

I feel better now, but am still unable to eat or sleep
much.  And anything other than cereal, fruit and juice
is a complete anathema to my stomach.  I lost 7lb over
the course of 3 days.

I would be interested in trying Ibogaine again, but
not for a while.  I found it to be a little taxing on
my system.

Julie


From: HSLotsof@...

Dear Julie,

Thanks for your responses.  A good many people find Ibogaine taxing.  I was
curious as to two things.  1) Did you drink adequate amounts of water for two
days prior to dosing with ibogaine (8 - 10 glasses a day) and 2) did you have
any noticeable stomach problems, gastric distress prior to dosing with Ibogaine?

Changes in diet are not uncommon after Ibogaine.  Follow your intuition about
any future dosing.  Rest and regain your strength.  Did you stop eating meat
or were you a vegetarian before Ibogaine?  Oh well, more questions than I
thought.  Have you gained any of the lost weight back?  Persons without any
chemical dependence have their sleep cycles cut down for a month or so after
Ibogaine.  Normal sleep patterns come back slowly. Are you taking vitamins?  Setting
aside the issue that you did not stop methadone completely you seem quite
sensitive to ibogaine.  That is something you should consider if you do try
Ibogaine again.

Take care

Howard

From: ms_iboga@...

Howard,

No, I probably didn't drink enough water- maybe that
was the problem.  I don't have any history of
gastrointestinal disorder, unless you count all the
lovely junk-related stuff like flip-flopping between
constipation and the runs.

I managed to get my hands on 20gm of the rootbark
powder, but am a little timid to do it again for a
while.  I am a partial vegetarian-no red meat- but now
I don't even crave chicken or fish.  I'll just stick
to my berries and grains, thank you. 

Thank you for your help, Howard,
Julie


From: UUSEAN@...

hi Julie,

The water warning was really important for me.  By being really hydrated going into it, I also did not feel the need for water until 12 hours into the trip.  Anything which would cause me to stir from my flat on the back position made me real queasy, so I was really grateful to Howard for the water advice.

Sean   

From: darkmattersfo@...

Thanks Callie, et.al.

What would you like to know? My DOJ is speed. I have been struggling with it for over 7 years now. I have had periods of sobriety and have been very active in secular recovery but find myself going back to the stuff, usually because of relationship (or lack of one.)

I've been interested in ibo for several years and almost did it the last time I got clean but decided not to. I know one person personally who used it for heroin and another who used it for crack.

I want to do it as soon as possible but the cost of going to Mexico is too much for me right now. I thought about importing but that seems risky so I am exploring my options right now.

From: CallieMimosa@...

I feel as you and want to be treated ASAP BUT........I am on a high dose of Methadone since 1998 and my funds are limited. I am slowly coming down on my Methadone dose. I was decreasing 2mg every 2 weeks for 3 or 4 months but got to feeling grouchy and anxious so I have temporarily stopped. I am also sticking back at least 50 bucks a paycheck to hopefully pay for treatment in a clinical setting.
I would love to hurry and start my journey but it is impossible at this time.. I am trying to control my "self will run riot" and sit tight and wait my turn.
I am a believer that things happen as they should as long as I do the next right thing and keep my 'bright ideas' or will out of it.
I hate the words Higher Power. I prefer God but it turns people off as soon as I say it but God does a great job in my life if I stay out of it!
Share whatever you want about yourself. Do you have offspring, married, single, occupation or not.....whatever you feel like makes you, you!
Peace, Callie

       

To join the Mindvox ibogaine list just send an email to ibogaine-subscribe@... if you please.

Nothing more to it. You don't have to write anything in the subject or text area.

-------------------------------------------------------------

From: tents444@...

http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmmall.htm  This page just created! Please forward and distribute widely.
 
348 MMM cities worldwide since 1999!
 

MMM. All cities 1999 to date. Million Marijuana March. Global Cannabis Liberation in May. Worldwide since 1999. Cannabis events on the first Saturday in May, or that weekend, or thereabouts. Marches, meetings, rallies, raves, concerts, festivals, etc..

******************************************************************************

To get on the poster for 2005--update your contact details & add yr city to this New List:

[---snip---]

 

----end of forwarded email----

 

The detailed MMM 2005 city list at the end of the above
forwarded email has been deleted since it has some private
postal info, etc. in [brackets].
Go to cures-not-wars.org (eventually) for a detailed
MMM 2005 city list for May 7, 2005! Cannabis Liberation!
http://www.cures-not-wars.org - Million Marijuana March.
MMM webform for adding or updating MMM cities worldwide:
http://corporatism.tripod.com/webform.htm
A simple MMM 2005 city list without contact info:
http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/mmm2005.htm