Hi all

I made it to the debate at the Maudsley.  The Central Line being out of action
made it somewhat more difficult but fortunately I am not far from Ilford and
mainline trains into Liverpool Street.

I arrived ten minutes before the scheduled start and was one of the last people
let in as the lecture theatre was full - quite a number of people must have been
disappointed which shows the interest there was in this debate.

The motion:
     'This house believes that schizophrenia does not exist.'

Chair: Professor Robin Murray, Professor of Psychiatry at the Institute of
Psychiatry, London

Supporting the motion:
Professor Jim Van Os, Professor of Psychiatry at Maastricht University
Professor Richard Bentall, Professor of Experimental Clinical Psychology,
University of Manchester

Opposing the motion:
Dr Peter McKenna, Consultant Psychiatrist, Cambridge
Professor Anthony David, Professor Anthony David, Professor of Cognitive
Neuropsychiatry, Institute of Psychiatry, London

Before and after the debate a vote was taken:

Before:
     For the motion                86
     Against the motion         134
     Abstentions/undecided     44

After:
     For the motion                 97
     Against the motion           97
     Abstentions/undecided     49

Notes:
1. Some people left before the final vote.
2. Each speaker had seven minutes and there was half an hours discussion at the
end with audience participation.
3. The chair declined to use his casting vote saying that he was undecided.
4. There was a quite a big swing indicating that proponents of the motion swayed
quite a few people.
5.  Prof. Murray defined the essence of the debate as being: the fact that
people have symptoms is not in dispute but is it valuable to diagnose?

I suppose everyone came away with different things in what was a session packed
with ideas and viewpoints.

The proponents of the motion talked about the need for care being important not
the diagnosis.  Scales for positive, negative, affective, cognitive and motor
skills were mentioned and it was proposed that these should take the place of
diagnoses.  Treatment could be based on symptoms.

A study which indicated that 30% of Americans were deluded was raised but the
counter argument was put that it was only a small minority for whom the
delusions were distressing and preoccupying.  I think that the proposition that
there is a continuum of increasing severity of symptoms may have been accepted
and that differing diagnostic systems will have different thresholds for making
a diagnosis.  Opponents of the motion maintained that the systems of diagnosis
were robust and useful enough and supported by studies whilst proponents
characterised it as flawed.  In particular studies which showed distinct
separate groupings of people with symptoms of schizophrenia and mania were
contradicted by those which showed a continuum.

A thread running through the discussion was just what ugly connotations the word
'schizophrenia' had and people would be better off without the diagnosis.  Set
against this were certain practical problems of what to tell the social security
or the judge and jury in a case like the Christopher Clunis one.  Would talking
about having 'care needs' provide someone with sufficient protection, aid
recovery and avoid stigma?  A lot of the audience seemed to be convinced.

Bob



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Now I look at it, your'e right Rosemary, it does seem a little generalised.
I'll tighten it up tonight.

Symon.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Symon Price" <symon.price@...>
To: <mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [mentalmagazine] Re: Blatant self promotion.


> Yes, black on blue is probably better. I'm also going to have another
> version of the site on the same server for anyone who finds the main
version
> difficult to read.
>
> Don't worry about the site, It'll be back online very soon. I just tend to
> get lots of emails from people contacting me through the site, and I
needed
> a brief rest.
>
> Symon.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <rosemary.moore@...>
> To: <mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:50 AM
> Subject: [mentalmagazine] Re: Blatant self promotion.
>
>
> > Dear Symon
> >
> > I've taken a look at the preview material from the machine I have at
> > work which isn't used for the internet much.  I have a comment about
> > the content of your piece but the most important thing is that people
> > with varying physical and net ability can actually READ it easily.  I
> > think Mikki has mentioned to you about making sure that the website
> > is easy to use for every level of user - and the point here is that,
> > on this machine, I found it difficult to read the green print.  The
> > plain black print which you used for the preamble is much, much
> > better.
> >
> > Regarding the preview content - I just wonder what this was really
> > about!  You make generalised comments about psychiatry but it sounded
> > as if you had just had a bad experience with some professional or
> > other or are in some sort of crisis.
> >
> > I'm sorry you've taken the whole site offline - it provided very good
> > spread of  information and was the best in my view of an individual's
> > voice on the net.  In fact, it is the ONLY example I know of an
> > independent site created and run by someone who is the genuine
> > article, ie someone who "uses" mental health services.
> >
> > (The only thing that was ever wrong with your site was that for some
> > people it would have been difficult to read the screen.)
> >
> > If it aint broke don't fix it!!!
> >
> > All the best
> > rosemary
> > Surrey UK
> > www.mentalmagazine.co.uk
> > "Campaigning for good health & social care...it's for everyone"
> > Surrey UK
> > www.mental
> >
> > Don't fix it if it aint broke!!
> > --- In mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com, "Symon Price"
> > <symon.price@b...> wrote:
> > > http://www.btinternet.com/~symon.price - A quick preview of my new
> > material
> > > for the soon to be relaunched 'Mental Health concerns and issues.'
> > >
> > > Symon.
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > This Yahoo!Group is part of MENTAL MAGAZINE uk
> > URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> This Yahoo!Group is part of MENTAL MAGAZINE uk
> URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Asylum magazine is planning a special tribute to Pete in their next
issue. Rufus May told me that if anyone wants to write a piece about
their memories of Pete and his work, then let him know.

Asylum magazine website; http://www.asylumonline.net/index.htm

Symon.

Yes, black on blue is probably better. I'm also going to have another
version of the site on the same server for anyone who finds the main version
difficult to read.

Don't worry about the site, It'll be back online very soon. I just tend to
get lots of emails from people contacting me through the site, and I needed
a brief rest.

Symon.

----- Original Message -----
From: <rosemary.moore@...>
To: <mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:50 AM
Subject: [mentalmagazine] Re: Blatant self promotion.


> Dear Symon
>
> I've taken a look at the preview material from the machine I have at
> work which isn't used for the internet much.  I have a comment about
> the content of your piece but the most important thing is that people
> with varying physical and net ability can actually READ it easily.  I
> think Mikki has mentioned to you about making sure that the website
> is easy to use for every level of user - and the point here is that,
> on this machine, I found it difficult to read the green print.  The
> plain black print which you used for the preamble is much, much
> better.
>
> Regarding the preview content - I just wonder what this was really
> about!  You make generalised comments about psychiatry but it sounded
> as if you had just had a bad experience with some professional or
> other or are in some sort of crisis.
>
> I'm sorry you've taken the whole site offline - it provided very good
> spread of  information and was the best in my view of an individual's
> voice on the net.  In fact, it is the ONLY example I know of an
> independent site created and run by someone who is the genuine
> article, ie someone who "uses" mental health services.
>
> (The only thing that was ever wrong with your site was that for some
> people it would have been difficult to read the screen.)
>
> If it aint broke don't fix it!!!
>
> All the best
> rosemary
> Surrey UK
> www.mentalmagazine.co.uk
> "Campaigning for good health & social care...it's for everyone"
> Surrey UK
> www.mental
>
> Don't fix it if it aint broke!!
> --- In mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com, "Symon Price"
> <symon.price@b...> wrote:
> > http://www.btinternet.com/~symon.price - A quick preview of my new
> material
> > for the soon to be relaunched 'Mental Health concerns and issues.'
> >
> > Symon.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> This Yahoo!Group is part of MENTAL MAGAZINE uk
> URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Symon,
I agree with Rosemary. All it required was minor
modification.

Regards, David H

--- "Rosemary Moore <rosemary.moore@...>"
<rosemary.moore@...> wrote:
Dear Symon<BR>
<BR>
I've taken a look at the preview material from the
machine I have at <BR>
work which isn't used for the internet much.  I have a
comment about <BR>
the content of your piece but the most important thing
is that people <BR>
with varying physical and net ability can actually
READ it easily.  I <BR>
think Mikki has mentioned to you about making sure
that the website <BR>
is easy to use for every level of user - and the point
here is that, <BR>
on this machine, I found it difficult to read the
green print.  The <BR>
plain black print which you used for the preamble is
much, much <BR>
better.<BR>
<BR>
Regarding the preview content - I just wonder what
this was really <BR>
about!  You make generalised comments about psychiatry
but it sounded <BR>
as if you had just had a bad experience with some
professional or <BR>
other or are in some sort of crisis.  <BR>
<BR>
I'm sorry you've taken the whole site offline - it
provided very good <BR>
spread of  information and was the best in my view of
an individual's <BR>
voice on the net.  In fact, it is the ONLY example I
know of an <BR>
independent site created and run by someone who is the
genuine <BR>
article, ie someone who "uses" mental health
services.<BR>
<BR>
(The only thing that was ever wrong with your site was
that for some <BR>
people it would have been difficult to read the
screen.)<BR>
<BR>
If it aint broke don't fix it!!!<BR>
<BR>
All the best<BR>
rosemary<BR>
Surrey UK<BR>
www.mentalmagazine.co.uk<BR>
"Campaigning for good health & social care...it's for
everyone"<BR>
Surrey UK<BR>
www.mental<BR>
<BR>
Don't fix it if it aint broke!!<BR>
--- In mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com, "Symon Price"
<BR>
<symon.price@b...> wrote:<BR>
> <a
href="http://www.btinternet.com/~symon.price">http://www.btinternet.com/~symon.p\
rice</a>
- A quick preview of my new <BR>
material<BR>
> for the soon to be relaunched 'Mental Health
concerns and issues.'<BR>
> <BR>
> Symon.<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

In my last message (about Symon's website) I said that his was the
only site I knew of created and run by the genuine article (ie
a "user").  But I was forgetting the excellent sites created and run
by Zyra (the Zyra site) and Keith Milner's site for Wokingham Mind.

Apologies to both.

rosemary
Surrey UK
www.mentalmagazine.co.uk
"Campaigning for good health & social care...it's for everyone"


--- In mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com, "Rosemary Moore
<rosemary.moore@v...>" <rosemary.moore@v...> wrote:
> Dear Symon
>
> I've taken a look at the preview material from the machine I have
at
> work which isn't used for the internet much.  I have a comment
about
> the content of your piece but the most important thing is that
people
> with varying physical and net ability can actually READ it easily.
I
> think Mikki has mentioned to you about making sure that the website
> is easy to use for every level of user - and the point here is
that,
> on this machine, I found it difficult to read the green print.  The
> plain black print which you used for the preamble is much, much
> better.
>
> Regarding the preview content - I just wonder what this was really
> about!  You make generalised comments about psychiatry but it
sounded
> as if you had just had a bad experience with some professional or
> other or are in some sort of crisis.
>
> I'm sorry you've taken the whole site offline - it provided very
good
> spread of  information and was the best in my view of an
individual's
> voice on the net.  In fact, it is the ONLY example I know of an
> independent site created and run by someone who is the genuine
> article, ie someone who "uses" mental health services.
>
> (The only thing that was ever wrong with your site was that for
some
> people it would have been difficult to read the screen.)
>
> If it aint broke don't fix it!!!
>
> All the best
> rosemary
> Surrey UK
> www.mentalmagazine.co.uk
> "Campaigning for good health & social care...it's for everyone"
> Surrey UK
> www.mental
>
> Don't fix it if it aint broke!!
> --- In mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com, "Symon Price"
> <symon.price@b...> wrote:
> > http://www.btinternet.com/~symon.price - A quick preview of my
new
> material
> > for the soon to be relaunched 'Mental Health concerns and issues.'
> >
> > Symon.

Dear Symon

I've taken a look at the preview material from the machine I have at
work which isn't used for the internet much.  I have a comment about
the content of your piece but the most important thing is that people
with varying physical and net ability can actually READ it easily.  I
think Mikki has mentioned to you about making sure that the website
is easy to use for every level of user - and the point here is that,
on this machine, I found it difficult to read the green print.  The
plain black print which you used for the preamble is much, much
better.

Regarding the preview content - I just wonder what this was really
about!  You make generalised comments about psychiatry but it sounded
as if you had just had a bad experience with some professional or
other or are in some sort of crisis.

I'm sorry you've taken the whole site offline - it provided very good
spread of  information and was the best in my view of an individual's
voice on the net.  In fact, it is the ONLY example I know of an
independent site created and run by someone who is the genuine
article, ie someone who "uses" mental health services.

(The only thing that was ever wrong with your site was that for some
people it would have been difficult to read the screen.)

If it aint broke don't fix it!!!

All the best
rosemary
Surrey UK
www.mentalmagazine.co.uk
"Campaigning for good health & social care...it's for everyone"
Surrey UK
www.mental

Don't fix it if it aint broke!!
--- In mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com, "Symon Price"
<symon.price@b...> wrote:
> http://www.btinternet.com/~symon.price - A quick preview of my new
material
> for the soon to be relaunched 'Mental Health concerns and issues.'
>
> Symon.

http://www.btinternet.com/~symon.price - A quick preview of my new material
for the soon to be relaunched 'Mental Health concerns and issues.'

Symon.

Does Schizophrenia Exist?
FREE debate at the Maudsley Hospital, Institute of Psychiatry
Wednesday, 29 January, 6pm.
Refreshments (also free) at 5.30pm
http://www.iop.kcl.ac.uk/iop/News/mdebates.shtml
Contact: (020) 7848 0787, email: maudsley.debates@...

This debate is open to all and attendees have an opportunity to vote before
and after the debate and contribute to the discussion.

NOTE:  THIS DEBATE WILL BE AUDIOTAPED
              SHORT DISCUSSION PAPER (summary below)
              Both available on request - see below

The Wolfson Lecture Theatre
Institute of Psychiatry
King's College London, De Crespigny Park, London  SE5 8AF
Map and travel information:  http://www.iop.kcl.ac.uk/IoP/where.shtml
Telephone: +44(0)20 7836 5454
enquiries@...

Information from Professor Robin M Murray and Dr Kimberlie Dean about the
debate:

http://www.iop.kcl.ac.uk/iop/News/mdebates.shtml
'SCHIZOPHRENIA - THE ULTIMATE DELUSION'
Motion:    'This house believes that schizophrenia does not exist'.

Date: Wednesday 29th January 2003 at 6pm. Refreshments available from
5.30pm.
Venue:  Wolfson Lecture Theatre, Institute of Psychiatry (address above)

Chair: Professor ROBIN MURRAY, Professor of Psychiatry at the Institute of
Psychiatry, London

Supporting the motion:
Professor JIM VAN OS, Professor of Psychiatry at Maastrixht University, The
Netherlands, and Visiting Professor at the Institute of Psychiatry, London -
argues that the concept of schizophrenia is not only unhelpful but harmful.
Professor RICHARD BENTALL, Professor of Experimental Clinical Psychology,
University of Manchester - also supports the motion and believes that our
focus should be on symptoms which cause distress rather than disease
labelling.

Opposing the motion:
Dr PETER MCKENNA, Consultant Psychiatrist, Cambridge - is an outspoken
advocate of the notion of schizophrenia which he believes has 'stood the
test of time'.
Professor ANTHONY DAVID, Professor of Cognitive Neuropsychiatry, Institute o
f Psychiatry, London - also opposes the motion as he favours the continuing
use of schizophrenia in clinical practice and research.

A Maudsley Discussion Paper is available on this topic.
(These short papers deal with controversial topics in mental health and aim
to stimulate discussion.)
DOES SCHIZOPHRENIA EXIST?
Paper No. 12
Jim Van Os & Peter McKenna
Institute of Psychiatry, King's College, London
SUMMARY
Since the beginnings of medicine, physicians and their patients have assumed
that a doctor's ability to understand and alleviate illness relies on his
expertise in distinguishing between different conditions. In turn, this
process of diagnosis depends on the existence of an accepted system of
classifying the different conditions, which the doctor is likely to
encounter. Unfortunately, psychiatry has not kept pace with the advances in
understanding and classifying disorders which have occurred in other areas
of medicine.
Psychiatric diagnosis continues to rely on the clinician's ability to
recognise familiar patterns of symptoms and behaviour. For example, people
with severe mental illness continue to be divided into those with
schizophrenia and those with bipolar disorder on the basis of their history
and behaviour. This distinction began over 100 years ago with Emil
Kraepelin's (1896) differentiation of the disorder he termed 'dementia
praecox' (soon re-christened schizophrenia by Eugene Bleuler) from
manic-depression (the forerunner of today's bipolar disorder). The concept
of schizophrenia has changed little since the time of Kraepelin and we still
know little about the aetiology of the disorder.
The use of schizophrenia as a diagnostic entity is often said to have both
positive and negative aspects. This Discussion Paper sets out to review the
pros and cons of continuing to use the term, and indeed concept, of
schizophrenia. Jim Van Os, Professor of Psychiatry at the University of
Maastricht, Holland, and Peter McKenna, Consultant Psychiatrist in
Cambridge, are both highly distinguished psychiatrists. However, they have
opposing views about the value of the term schizophrenia.
Jim Van Os regards the schizophrenia concept as harmful in clinical practice
and research. He examines its impact in relation to factors such as:
clinical usage, user satisfaction, reliability, translation into treatment
needs, ability to account for psychological variables, stigmatisation,
prediction of outcome, and aetiological research. Peter McKenna is more
content with the traditional fare. He therefore takes the opposite position
and outlines the strengths of the concept. In his view, schizophrenia has
'stood the test of time' despite repeated attacks against it over the last
century.
Order this paper from:
Mrs Sarah Smith
PO63, Division of Psychological Medicine, Institute of Psychiatry, De
Crespigny Park, London SE5 8AF, UK
Cheque or postal order for £ 4.00 per copy, payable to "King's College,
London".

Audiotapes of this and all previous Maudsley debates are available from the
Media Support Unit
(each tape £20, cheque payable to "Kings College, London" - give date of
debate when ordering)
From Ms Cindy Smith at the Media Support Unit,
PO16, Institute of Psychiatry, De Crespigny Park, Denmark Hill, London SE5
8AF
Telephone: 020 7848 0326     Fax: 020 7848 0954
Email: MSU@...
http://www.iop.kcl.ac.uk/IoP/AdminSup/MedSup/index.shtml


The voting outcome of the last Maudsley debate - on whether nurses and
psychologists should prescribe drugs (20 November) was very close and in
fact I abstained.  Details of the speakers, etc, of this debate are on the
mentalmagazine discussion board at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mentalmagazine/message/1962 and the audiotape
of the debate is available from the Media Support Unit (see above).

posted by rosemary
Surrey UK
www.mentalmagazine.co.uk
"Campaigning for good health & social care...it's for everyone"

i hope you gave joy her credit where credit was due?




--- In mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com, David Hutchinson
<davelan55@y...> wrote:
>
> It may be of some comfort for depressed people to
> discover that many others - often the rich and the
> famous - have been as miserable as they are.
>
> Here some interesting lists of famous people with bi-
> or uni-polar depression:
>
> http://www.frii.com/~parrot/dead.html
>
> Regards,
>
> David H
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Hi Symon,

Unfortunately I'm in a bit of a down period at the moment.  The
grind is catching up on me after all these months and I need to
meditate and relax.

I can't recall the manic depression site you asked me to look at and
its not in my favourites, so can you please remind me?

My own site is developing very gradually and I've asked a few people
to look at it and advise me.  I'm going to email the site to you,
but I've still got a lot of work to do.

I've been having problems with my Windows XP and I'm still trying to
sort that out.

The Prime Minister has just one week to answer my letter and if he
doesn't, he'll discover the perseverance of Michael Elvin as
Birmingham SSD has found out.

Best wishes to you and all,

Mikki
---

  In mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com, "Symon Price" <symon.price@b...>
wrote:
> Dear Mikki;
>                     I'm rewriting my site at present, and
hopefully will
> finish within the next couple of weeks. When I republish, I can
add the
> second, improved access version of the site at the same time. I'll
fit both
> site versions on the same server to allow ease of access to both.
How was
> the manic depression website I mentioned ? Was it a reasonable
example of an
> improved access site ?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Symon P.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "deepsouth2us" <deepsouth2us@y...>
> To: <mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 7:56 PM
> Subject: [mentalmagazine] Re: an insignificant fighter
>
>
> > Hi Symon,
> >
> > I think that is a great idea, but I'm not sure myself how it
would
> > work. I am advised that 'Word' is not easy to use and has
problems.
> > I'm not too sure how to do a pdf format which might be best.
> > Perhaps you might also like to consider the background colour.
I'm
> > well informed that a light yellow is better for people who have a
> > sight impairment, but check this.  I'll look into all of this
during
> > the week because it will help me as well, and get back to you.
> >
> > Mikki Elvin
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In mentalmagazine@y..., "Symon Price" <symon.price@b...>
wrote:
> > > Dear Mikki;
> > >
> > > I don't know whether this would work, but how about if I was to
> > offer a word
> > > file for download on the site, one that contained all the text
and
> > articles
> > > on the site, but in word format, making it easier for screen
> > readers etc to
> > > interpret ?
> > >
> > > I could locate someone with an apple mac who could create a
file
> > for apple
> > > computers.
> > >
> > > Symon.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "deepsouth2us" <deepsouth2us@y...>
> > > To: <mentalmagazine@y...>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:29 PM
> > > Subject: [mentalmagazine] Re: an insignificant fighter
> > >
> > >
> > > > --- In mentalmagazine@y..., "Symon Price" <symon.price@b...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > Good luck Michael. I've been through similar experiences,
take
> > a
> > > > look at
> > > > > www.btinternet.com/~symon.price and let me know what you
think.
> > > > >
> > > > > Symon P.
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "deepsouth2us" <deepsouth2us@y...>
> > > > > To: <mentalmagazine@y...>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 9:09 PM
> > > > > Subject: [mentalmagazine] an insignificant fighter
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Symon,
> > > >
> > > > I've looked at your website and I think it is superb.  In
fact I
> > > > have saved it twice in my favourites and on hard disc.  In
> > > > particular, I am impressed with the interviews and chat with
Dr
> > John
> > > > Breeding. I like to flush out the professionals if possible,
and
> > I
> > > > believe it is something to aim for.
> > > >
> > > > I feel that there could be some improvement on accessibility
for
> > > > people with disabilities and suggest this site for ideas.
> > > >
> > > >                     http://www.webaim.org/
> > > >
> > > > I also used search engines to see how high your site came on
> > > > the 'mental health' list.  I think it might be a good idea to
> > > > improve your meta tags. I advise that you look at the source
> > code of
> > > > the sites that are at the top of the list and get some ideas
from
> > > > their meta tags.
> > > >
> > > > I am developing my own site from scratch using Dreamweaver 4
and
> > I
> > > > hope to provide a resource for campaigning skills and
techniques.
> > > > I'm not very good at design and will need some advice when
it is
> > up
> > > > and running, and I can change every detail if necessary.
> > > >
> > > > Mikki Elvin
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This Yahoo!Group is part of MENTAL MAGAZINE uk
> > > > > URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This Yahoo!Group is part of MENTAL MAGAZINE uk
> > > > URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > This Yahoo!Group is part of MENTAL MAGAZINE uk
> > URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >

*Holds up hand*

I promise in future to be less preachy, to improve my terrible grammer, and
to protect myself from the atrocious vagaries of an overheated, monkey-like
personality.

Here's an extract from my new, ( hopefully ) improved website, to be
relaunched within the next couple of weeks. I haven't jumped off my soapbox
( look at the first paragraph ! ) but perhaps it's a little smaller.

"Of many meetings.

Here's an old axiom; information is power. Unfortunately, this expression
doesn't always hold true within the world of the mental health system, - a
world that often functions in ways that are not only oppressive, but deaf to
good sense. Of course, a basic grasp of the many issues surrounding mental
health, some knowledge of the workings of the mental health system, and some
awareness of the extent of my ( limited ) rights has been truly beneficial
to me. Some of this knowledge has come through personal experience. However,
such information has only been powerful when I've had the opportunity to
apply it in a useful, practical way. After all, a head full of facts wasn't
of much use when I found myself being physically threatened by a mental
health 'professional.' ( An experience which taught me a great deal about my
rights, the issues and the workings of the mental health system. )

However, despite the obvious limitations, there are still plenty of
circumstances in which a reasonable knowledge of mental health subjects has
been of demonstrable benefit to me. When I get together with other people
experiencing severe mental stress, we share information about the world of
mental health, ( some of which comes from books, and a lot of which comes
from personal experience ). The resulting confidence boost has been
tremendously empowering for me. Upon discovering such fertile and receptive
ground, knowledge, friendship and mutual support have grown and thrived.
Such experiences have fed me with confidence and hope, providing me with at
least a fighting chance of defending my dignity if I ever find myself
getting mucked around by mental health staff again. In addition, such
friendships have also helped to reduce the feelings of physical and
emotional isolation that I sometimes fall into.

On frequent occasions, I've discovered that talking with others who've
experienced mental health problems can prove far more valuable than chatting
with a charity worker, mental health professional or trust representative.
For some individuals working within these fields, a career stepladder seems
to be more important than a road towards good mental health. As is the case
with so many 'professionals', some balance a head full of facts upon a heart
filled with ambition and greed.

In the end, I don't really need a psychiatric nurse, a day centre message
board or a information leaflet to spoon feed me with 'acceptable'
information about my rights and opportunities. People all over the world who
suffer from mental health problems are using books, articles and the
internet to inform themselves. I'm proud to mention myself as being one of
them. However, at the end of the day, the most valuable learning experiences
of all have arisen when I've met with other people suffering from severe
mental stress and shared a mutual wisdom with them, a wisdom gained from
living. There's nothing better.

By Symon Price. ( 24th January 2003 )"

Dear Mikki;
                     I'm rewriting my site at present, and hopefully will
finish within the next couple of weeks. When I republish, I can add the
second, improved access version of the site at the same time. I'll fit both
site versions on the same server to allow ease of access to both. How was
the manic depression website I mentioned ? Was it a reasonable example of an
improved access site ?

Thanks.

Symon P.

----- Original Message -----
From: "deepsouth2us" <deepsouth2us@...>
To: <mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 7:56 PM
Subject: [mentalmagazine] Re: an insignificant fighter


> Hi Symon,
>
> I think that is a great idea, but I'm not sure myself how it would
> work. I am advised that 'Word' is not easy to use and has problems.
> I'm not too sure how to do a pdf format which might be best.
> Perhaps you might also like to consider the background colour.  I'm
> well informed that a light yellow is better for people who have a
> sight impairment, but check this.  I'll look into all of this during
> the week because it will help me as well, and get back to you.
>
> Mikki Elvin
>
>
>
> --- In mentalmagazine@y..., "Symon Price" <symon.price@b...> wrote:
> > Dear Mikki;
> >
> > I don't know whether this would work, but how about if I was to
> offer a word
> > file for download on the site, one that contained all the text and
> articles
> > on the site, but in word format, making it easier for screen
> readers etc to
> > interpret ?
> >
> > I could locate someone with an apple mac who could create a file
> for apple
> > computers.
> >
> > Symon.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "deepsouth2us" <deepsouth2us@y...>
> > To: <mentalmagazine@y...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:29 PM
> > Subject: [mentalmagazine] Re: an insignificant fighter
> >
> >
> > > --- In mentalmagazine@y..., "Symon Price" <symon.price@b...>
> wrote:
> > > > Good luck Michael. I've been through similar experiences, take
> a
> > > look at
> > > > www.btinternet.com/~symon.price and let me know what you think.
> > > >
> > > > Symon P.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "deepsouth2us" <deepsouth2us@y...>
> > > > To: <mentalmagazine@y...>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 9:09 PM
> > > > Subject: [mentalmagazine] an insignificant fighter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Symon,
> > >
> > > I've looked at your website and I think it is superb.  In fact I
> > > have saved it twice in my favourites and on hard disc.  In
> > > particular, I am impressed with the interviews and chat with Dr
> John
> > > Breeding. I like to flush out the professionals if possible, and
> I
> > > believe it is something to aim for.
> > >
> > > I feel that there could be some improvement on accessibility for
> > > people with disabilities and suggest this site for ideas.
> > >
> > >                     http://www.webaim.org/
> > >
> > > I also used search engines to see how high your site came on
> > > the 'mental health' list.  I think it might be a good idea to
> > > improve your meta tags. I advise that you look at the source
> code of
> > > the sites that are at the top of the list and get some ideas from
> > > their meta tags.
> > >
> > > I am developing my own site from scratch using Dreamweaver 4 and
> I
> > > hope to provide a resource for campaigning skills and techniques.
> > > I'm not very good at design and will need some advice when it is
> up
> > > and running, and I can change every detail if necessary.
> > >
> > > Mikki Elvin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@y...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This Yahoo!Group is part of MENTAL MAGAZINE uk
> > > > URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > > This Yahoo!Group is part of MENTAL MAGAZINE uk
> > > URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> This Yahoo!Group is part of MENTAL MAGAZINE uk
> URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I have been asked to circulate some more information about the
filming/discussion day being run by Listen to the Voices (LTTV) which will
take place tomorrow - 24 January - in London.   See below for an explanation
of what the day is about, (some of this information has already been
circulated) plus the programme, venue and travel details.  This event is
free, including refreshments, and accessible to all.  The venue is actually
where the office for "Survivors Speak Out" used to be - at Diorama in
Osnaburgh Street.  (Although SSO has never been officially closed, and is
still a registered company with Directors, it no longer operates.)

One of the people behind the cameras will be Dolly Sen whose book "The World
is Full of Laughter" was published at the end of last year by Jason Pegler's
Chipmunka Publishing  - the first chapter of his book ("A Can of Madness")
and Dolly's can be read on the website http://www.chipmunkapublishing.com/ .
I have read both books and will be writing more in another message...I think
they would be incredibly useful for anyone in the mental health system.

The "uncut footage" referred to from 14 September march against the proposed
mental health bill, has already been shown at a Critical Mental Health Forum
meeting  on 25 October - see messages on mentalmagazine board :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mentalmagazine/message/1800 - 1 October
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mentalmagazine/message/1911 - 25 October
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mentalmagazine/message/1914 - 26 October

PETE SHAUGHNESSY rip
The march took place almost exactly three months before Pete Shaughnessy
committed suicide (on 15 December).   Pete was at the protest and can be
seen among the marchers in the footage (above).  Obituaries by Mark Olden
have appeared in The Big Issue (6-12 January) and today's Guardian.   The
Big Issue obituary can be read in this message on the uksurvivors board:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/uksurvivors/message/9604 - 19 January
An inquest (a public hearing) into Pete's death will be held in London in
early April.

Here is the information from LTTV - go to the website for more details:

PO BOX 472
LONDON WC1X 9SW
0207 388 3189
ADMIN@...
WWW.LISTENTOTHEVOICES.ORG

________________________________________________________________________

A FILM ABOUT THE VIEWS OF SERVICE USERS AND PROFESSIONALS RESPONSES TO THE
NEW MENTAL HEALTH BILL....

Last summer saw a lot of activity from groups and individuals around the
government's proposed reform of the Mental Health Act. LTTV attended the key
events as part of the film we are making

We are carrying out further filming and interviews

At

DIORAMA ARTS 1
34 Osnaburgh Street
London NW1 3ND

24th January 2003       10.00am - 4.00pm

We would like to invite you to have an opportunity to have a say on the New
Mental Health Bill.

  MEET THE CREW, HEAR MORE ABOUT OUR PROPOSED FILM AND FUTURE DIGITAL ARTS
PROJECTS.
  We will also be screening 'uncut' footage from the No Force March
(September 2002). There's going to be a space set aside with a permanent
camera to give anyone the opportunity to make 'sound bite' comments without
being interviewed. Just turn up!
   Refreshments provided.

Please feel free to contact us beforehand if you have any specific
requirements that would enable you to feel more able to make a comment and
we will do our best to meet your needs regarding cameras, sound and travel.


SCHEDULE FOR 24TH JANUARY 2003 FILMING -  Diarama 1
LISTEN TO THE VOICES.

"There is no such thing as bad footage, just footage that isn't used"

10.00 - 10.15:  Introductions

10.30 - 12.30:

THE SKYLIGHT ROOM

Individual interviews, sound recordings and camera (optional).
  THE THEATRE ROOM

Meet the crew, 'soundbite' comments, informal interviews and cameras

12.30 - 1.00: Buffet Lunch served

THE SKYLIGHT ROOM

Fixed Camera on Tripod. Separate sound recording optional

THE THEATRE ROOM

Screening of No Force March 'uncut' footage. Discussion

1.00 - 3.00:                                                  1.00 - 3.00:

3.00 - 4.00: Q&A, Feedback, LTTV Future projects

".Celluloid, blessed celluloid, upon which have been imprinted in our
century all the dreams and shadows that have haunted the human race since
man's harsh and turbulent origins."

-         Gore Vidal


How to get to Diorama 1
Great Portland St tube
Buses: C2, 18, 27, 30, 88
Diorama 1 has a few parking spaces for disabled visitors

The building is fully wheelchair assessable (there is a lift at the building
that is out of order) but the space we are going to be using is all on the
ground floor.  All toilets and other facilities on the ground floor.

________________________________________________________________________
A GRANT FROM BRIDGE HOUSE ESTATE HAS FUNDED THIS EVENT. 100% OF PROFIT FROM
SALE FROM THE COMPLETED FILM WILL BE REINVESTED BY LTTV BACK INTO EQUIPMENT
AND RESOURCES NECESSARY FOR FILM PRODUCTION.  LTTV IS A SURVIVOR LED, NOT
FOR PROFIT GROUP USING DIGITAL MEDIA AND VIDEO BASED FILM PRODUCTION TO
COMBAT DISCRIMINATION ASSOCIATED WITH BEING DIGNOSED WITH A MENTAL ILLNESS.
DONATIONS GRATEFULLY RECEIVED!

http://www.listentothevoices.org/
TRUSTEES'S DISCLAIMER   - IMPORTANT
'Campaigning'  - LTTV does not seek to influence government policy and does
not align itself with any particular political party. Our purposes is
exclusively educational and are aims are to have a community benefit in
terms of education and empowerment of people effected by discrimination
associated with having a mental illness diagnosis.
We understand that, our past usage, of the word 'campaigning' could be
perceived as 'political', but we applied this term to our work in relation
to drawing attention to discrimination and stigma. The 'education' we
provide is neutral, in that it is about the technicality of film production,
and are films are not about propaganda material.
Psychophobia is the condition we have coined to describe discrimination: we
understand it is a noun, rather than an adjective. It is not a political
statement, rather a situation that maintains discrimination of people
diagnosed as mentally ill.
LTTV is not a campaigning body and any such references to the word are no
longer made by LTTV trustees. Any past usage of the word has to be
understood in relation to the above disclaimer.
Thank you - please contact us should you wish any further explanation on
these points.
http://www.listentothevoices.org/

posted by rosemary
Surrey UK
www.mentalmagazine.co.uk
"Campaigning for good health & social care...it's for everyone"


----- Original Message -----
From: admin@lttv
To: LTTVFilmNewsNetwork@...
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 1:35 PM
Subject: [LTTVFilmNewsNetwork] Hi Rosemary

Rosemary, maybe you can circulate to some of the disability boards you
mentioned to Tanya that you have access to.

Thanks Sara

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
LTTVFilmNewsNetwork-unsubscribe@...

Dear all;
                           Some of us over at No Force are considering direct
action to protest against the mental health bill, especially if it is
reintroduced with the ctos or dspd proposals still intact. Examples of this
action include a permanent protest outside parliament in the weeks before
the bill is introduced, or / and chaining ourselves up etc.

Please get in contact if you are interested in sharing ideas.

All the best;
                    Symon Price

It may be of some comfort for depressed people to
discover that many others - often the rich and the
famous - have been as miserable as they are.

Here some interesting lists of famous people with bi-
or uni-polar depression:

http://www.frii.com/~parrot/dead.html

Regards,

David H




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

The following questionnaire was sent to over 9000 'service users' in
September 2002.  Selected 'service users' and 'carers' participated
in meetings with Birmingham Social Services to contribute to the
formulation of the questions.  I have it on good authority that the
views of 'service users' were felt to be ignored by social services.

The 'fairer charging policies' considered are for Home Care and
other non-residential Social Services (such as Day Care and
Transport).

I attend a Day Centre where we have been paying for meals and
transport for the last year or two.

Is the questionnaire fair? I would very much appreciate your views
so that I can report back to Cllr Susannah McCorry, Cabinet Member
for social services.

------------------------------------------------------------------

QUESTIONNAIRE





1.   We charge for services so that we can provide support to more
people in their homes or to develop new or better services.



Do you agree that charges should be made as a contribution towards
the cost of services?



Please tick one [4] box



                               Strongly Agree      [ ]



                               Agree               [ ]



                               Disagree            [ ]



                               Strongly Disagree   [ ]









2.    If charges were not made and there was less money available as
a result, should the City Council.



Please tick one [4] box



A)     Provide less services           [ ]



                               Or



B)     Replace lost income by increasing Council Tax

                                         [ ]







3.    How do you feel about extending charges for services, to cover
Day Care and other services not charge for at present.  (This is in
addition to Home Care and Transport to Day Care, where there are
already charges)



Please tick one [4] box



Agree with extending charges to other
services                                            [ ]



Neutral /Don't
mind
                                                     [ ]



Disagree with extending charges to other
services                                            [ ]



Don't think there should be any charges for any of these
Services
                                                     [ ]







4.     Providing people can afford to pay the charge, do you think
it is fair to charge for the following:



Please tick relevant boxes:




                                  Yes      No

Attendance at day
centres
                                  [ ]       [ ]



Transport to day
centers
                                  [ ]       [ ]



Home
Care
                                  [ ]       [ ]



Equipment provided by Social Services to help people to

live at home                     [ ]       [ ]



Sitting
services
                                  [ ]       [ ]







5.     How do you feel  about the level of charges for services
being set at the maximum level of disposable income for those people
who can afford it? (Disposable income is money left after paying
essential bills such as Rates, Gas, Water, Electricity, etc.  Also
essential costs incurred due to a person's disability)



Please tick one [4] box



Agree with charges being at maximum level of

disposable
income
                                                        [ ]



Disagree with charges being at maximum level

of disposable
income
                                                        [ ]





6.     If charges are to be set, what is the best way to charge
people?



Please tick one [4] box



a)     Charge only according to the amount of services received

                                                               [ ]



b)     Charge according to the person's income, but not taking
account of the amount of services
received.                                                      [ ]



c)     Charge taking account both the amount of services received
and the person's income

                                                                [ ]



Please give any other comments on principles that you think should
influence the Council's charging policy?












7.   Which of the following applies to you or the person you are
helping to fill in this questionnaire?



Please tick on [4] box



     Service User                                     [ ]



     Carer                                            [ ]



     Other (please specify)                           [ ]




8.     If you are not a service user, are the views you have given
in your answers:



Please tick one [4] box



Your Views                                          [ ]



The view of the service user                        [ ]





9.     Which services do you or the person you are helping to fill
in this questionnaire receive at the moment?



Please trick each box that applies



             Home Care                        [ ]



             Day Care/Day Services            [ ]



Name of Day Centre Attended ----------------------------------



Sitting Services                                     [ ]



Meals in your home                                   [ ]



Meals at a luncheon club                             [ ]



Equipment                                            [ ]



Other                                                [ ]





10.    Finally, to make sure we have a balanced picture, please tell
us whether you (`You' refers to the service user) are:



                Please tick one [4] box



             Male     [ ]        Female       [ ]





Etc. (personal details)

  ------------------------------------------------------------------


Thank you for examining the questionnare, and I look forward to your
comments either on the message board or by email.

Mikki Elvin
Service Consumeree

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hutchinson" <davelan55@...>
To: <mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 10:28 AM
Subject: [mentalmagazine] Spirituality and Mental Health


<snip>
> (And I would still recommend people to be cautious in
> disclosing metaphysical beliefs or 'paranormal'
> experiences to shrinks or other mental health
> professionals).
<snip>

And that also applies to mental health professionals :-)

Adam

"No pessimist ever discovered the secret of the stars, or sailed to an
uncharted land, or opened a new doorway for the human spirit"
-Helen Keller


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 06/12/2002

Since the original definition of psychology was "soul doctoring", I believe
one's spirituality has a lot to do with your mental state.  Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
wrote a book called "Wisdom of the Ages" in 1998 that I have found very
enlightening.  The ISBN is 0-06-019231-3.  The book talks about achieving
happiness by people like Jesus Christ, Buddha, and others.
  David Hutchinson <davelan55@...> wrote:Late last year I attended an
interesting talk on
Spirituality and Mental Health by Edward O'Malley
whose talks and website project were funded by a Mind
Millenium Award.

I thought Ed made a good case for acknowledging the
importance of a spiritual dimension in the experiences
often identified as mental 'illnesses'.

(Incidently, the most persuasive and intriguing book
I've read on this topic was probably The Stormy Search
for the Self by Christina and Stansilav Grof -I can't
recommend it too highly).

In 1999 the Royal College of Psychiatrists set up a
special interest group in Spirituality and Psychiatry
which currently has 515 members. Here's their webpage
at:

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/college/sig/spirit/

I also recently discovered this from a back copy of
Psychiatrictimes:

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p001078.html

Although these developments may indicate an advance on
the prevelant attitudes of just a few years' ago when
psychiatric patients' mention of religious beliefs
would probably receive a pathological interpretation,
I suspect that many psychiatrists are still not
sympathetic to the idea that, for example, what
mainstream psychiatry views as an illness may
(sometimes) be a form of spiritual awakening.

(And I would still recommend people to be cautious in
disclosing metaphysical beliefs or 'paranormal'
experiences to shrinks or other mental health
professionals).

Ed is currently developing a website devoted to these
issues.  If anyone feels they have something to
contribute they can contact him via his website at:

http://www.spiritualityandmentalhealth.co.uk/

Regards,

David H














__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


This Yahoo!Group is part of MENTAL MAGAZINE uk
URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


John F. Prior                  jprior@...
Chicago, IL 60656-1639
My Yahoo Calendar:       http://calendar.yahoo.com/j_prior
My Home/Office phone:  773-774-6696,   Fax: 781-459-8592
My Cell Phone:              773-230-5825,   Question:   Matthew 22:36

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am interested in finding out more about the use of ECT in this country to
date, and anything about how practice would develop in the future, could anyone
suggest links to this subject.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Sue K
   To: mentalhealthlaw@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 12:26 PM
   Subject: Re: [mentalhealthlaw] Re: atypicals/community treatment



   Thanks Jonathan. I think I was getting confused between injected atypicals
   and oral atypicals. I don't really know much about the treatment of
   schizophrenia. I'm more interested in ECT and I was just wondering really
   how much notice is taken of NICE guidelines. Do they make a difference?





   >


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Late last year I attended an interesting talk on
Spirituality and Mental Health by Edward O'Malley
whose talks and website project were funded by a Mind
Millenium Award.

I thought Ed made a good case for acknowledging the
importance of a spiritual dimension in the experiences
often identified as mental 'illnesses'.

(Incidently, the most persuasive and intriguing book
I've read on this topic was probably The Stormy Search
for the Self by Christina and Stansilav Grof -I can't
recommend it too highly).

In 1999 the Royal College of Psychiatrists set up a
special interest group in Spirituality and Psychiatry
which currently has 515 members. Here's their webpage
at:

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/college/sig/spirit/

I also recently discovered this from a back copy of
Psychiatrictimes:

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p001078.html

Although these developments may indicate an advance on
the prevelant attitudes of just a few years' ago when
psychiatric patients' mention of religious beliefs
would probably receive a pathological interpretation,
I suspect that many psychiatrists are still not
sympathetic to the idea that, for example, what
mainstream psychiatry views as an illness may
(sometimes) be a form of spiritual awakening.

(And I would still recommend people to be cautious in
disclosing metaphysical beliefs or 'paranormal'
experiences to shrinks or other mental health
professionals).

Ed is currently developing a website devoted to these
issues.  If anyone feels they have something to
contribute they can contact him via his website at:

http://www.spiritualityandmentalhealth.co.uk/

Regards,

David H














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Please fill in the answers to the questions, *add a question and answer of
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1) What is your name?
Joseph

2) Where in the world are you?
New Haven, Connecticut USA

3) What are you wearing right now?
an 'Ebenezer Scrooge' style night-shirt (Hey, don't laff, it's WARM!)

4) What was the first record you ever bought?
"Greatest Hits - Johnny Mathis"

5) Do you prefer chocolate or ice cream?
Deeeeep Dark CHOCOLATE! YUM-YUM!!!

6) How long / short is your hair?
None

7) What was the last book you read?
Just re-read "The Front Runner" by Patricia Nell Warren

8) What was the last meal you cooked?
salad w/ creamy Italian dressing, Pasta Fagiola, Pasta Prima-Vera,
Veal Parmesan and canolli

9) Chinese or Indian?
Chinese

10) Are you a tidy person or a messy person?
It varies greatly from one extreme to the other.

11) What would your ideal first date be?
an elegant meal, quiet conversation & cuddling in front of fireplace

12) Do you like girls or boys?
Love women, lust men

13) Are you vegetarian / vegan? If so, why? If not, why not?
Member of P.E.T.A. (People Eating Tasty Animals)

14) What's your favourite real-life shop?
Walmart Department Store

15) What's your favourite online shop?
http://www.10percent.com/

16) Favourite song of all time?
"Your the Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me" by Gladys Knight & the Pips
or any one of a thousand songs I'm thinking of at any given moment.

17) Favourite household appliance?
micro-wave oven

18) If you could get a phone call from anyone in the world, alive or dead,
who would it be?
Freddy Mercury (Queen)  (BTW Pippa, dear, Beethoven was quite deaf, so it
MIGHT
be a difficult conversation, lol)

19) Do you like your name?
rather indifferent

20) How many times a day / week do you check your email?
whenever I'm not on the run from one appointment to another, which is almost
constantly

21) The last thing you bought?
The "Pasta Pro" from www.pastapro.com and 2 videos "Signs" & "SpiderMan"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

*added question:

22) Based solely on your own perception, what celebrity or celebrities do you
feel you best resemble?
I'm a cross between Brad Pitt & the Pilsbury DoughBoy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please fill in the answers to the questions, *add a question and answer of your
own*, and send it back to the person who sent it to you, and to all your
friends!!

1) What is your name?
Pippa

2) Where in the world are you?
UK

3) What are you wearing right now?
blue pyjama bottoms with sheep on them, and a CND tshirt

4) What was the first record you ever bought?
"Do they know it's Christmas" (Bob Geldof et al)

5) Do you prefer chocolate or ice cream?
chocolate. i love ice cream but it makes me sick

6) How long / short is your hair?
about boob length!

7) What was the last book you read?
no-nonsense guide to fair trade

8) What was the last meal you cooked?
kippers

9) Chinese or Indian?
Chinese

10) Are you a tidy person or a messy person?
VERY messy!

11) What would your ideal first date be?
come to my house and be cooked a meal... mmm

12) Do you like girls or boys?
girls

13) Are you vegetarian / vegan? If so, why? If not, why not?
was veggie for 11 years and vegan for 10 months then reverted back to
carnivorous ways due to intense chicken craving!

14) What's your favourite real-life shop?
Waterstones booksellers

15) What's your favourite online shop?
www.womenstand.com

16) Favourite song of all time?
oooh this is a  hard one... Dancing Queen by Abba I think!

17) Favourite household appliance?
steamer

18) If you could get a phone call from anyone in the world, alive or dead, who
would it be?
Beethoven

19) Do you like your name?
yes

20) How many times a day / week do you check your email?
twice a day maybe?

21) The last thing you bought?
salmon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Claire and Liz

I had forgotten for the moment what the Draft Bill actually says and was
concentrating on the 'spin' with which it is being presented - sorry.  It is
interesting though (at least it is my impression) that people seem to be
concentrating on getting CTOs removed altogether and no-one seems to be
proposing that they be restricted to possibly 'dangerous to others'
conditions.  Perhaps behind this is a desire not to stigmatise those with a
psychotic condition when the risk of harm to others is small and often
poorly predictable and the risk of self harm much greater.  The point though
that it could be extended to other groups if delivery methods become
available is a good one.

Good luck with your dissertation Claire.

Regards
Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: "claire.vokins" <claire.vokins@...>
To: <mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 12 February 2003 15:22
Subject: Re: [mentalmagazine] Re: Claire's question about compulsory
medication in the community


> Liz, thank for this. I worded my last e-mail very badly. I did not mean
that depot injections are irrelevant to the bill at all!!! Far from it -
totally the opposite!!  I was responding to Bob's comment that, with regard
to the bill, areas of contention seem to be mainly focussed on persons who
are a danger  others and  it is irrelevant that there are no depot
injections for depression, compulsive disorders etc.
>
> However, Clause 6(3)(b)(i) provides the patient will be subject to
compulsory powers: " it is necessary for the health or safety of the
patient, or the protection of other persons that medical treatment be
provided for him or her. Surely this does include persons who are likely to
be at risk of hurting themselves through depression etc. Once risk has
(allegedly) been established, either to other persons or to themselves, it
seems that the limitation as to how many people could be subject to the
CTO's is at the moment simply one of the 'delivery problem'.
>
> It may not be relevant at this precise moment to the bill because of this,
but surely will be in the not too distant future. Once the legislation
provides an opening, I'm sure the financial lure will spur the drug
companies onto produce a drug, tailor made to fit the legislation (too
cynical??). As more drugs  become licensed for long term depot, this will
widen the category of persons who can then be subject to these proposed
orders and the category of  mental disorder'  6(1) that can be treated in
this way will widen.
>
> (According to my friendly and obliging pharmacist, there are seven new
atypical antipsychotic drugs available, Amisulpride, Clozapine, Olanzapine,
Quetiapine, Risperidone, Ziprasidone and Zotepine.  However only one,
risperdal consta is the only depot atypical licensed as a long term
injectable drug. Olanzapine and Ziprasidone only exist as short term
injectables and the others are not available at all in depot form).
>
> Claire
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Liz Main <lizmain@...>
>   To: mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 1:43 PM
>   Subject: [mentalmagazine] Re: Claire's question about compulsory
medication in the community
>
>
>   Hi Claire
>
>   Your dissertation sounds very interesting. I don't see how depot
>   injections can be considered irrelevant to the draft bill - for most
>   people this is likely to be the area of biggest impact: they will be
>   forced to receive depot injections as a cheaper option to
>   hospitalisation. And while in theory this will only be applied to
>   people who are a danger to themself or to others, in practice it
>   will apply to people who have in the past been sectioned repeatedly.
>   Louis Appleby has said often that CTOs will be used to
>   stop "revolving door" admissions to hospital.
>
>   I expect that daily injections of drugs such as olanzapine, which I
>   believe it just about to come out in daily injectable doses, will be
>   used in hospitals primarily, and given to people who tend to spit
>   out their medication. As you point out, it's going to be an
>   administrative nightmare to go around forcing people to have
>   injections on a daily basis. But I'm sure it won't be too long until
>   they turn them into longer-acting depots. As for other atypicals, I
>   think clopixol/accuphase is an atypical, but I'm really not sure
>   about that.
>
>   I'm also not sure whether prozac has actually been released in the
>   slow-release version - a skin implant that is similar to that used
>   for contraceptive drugs and which lasts about six months. I know Eli
>   Lilly were working on it. I think we will increasingly see people
>   with depression who are frequently hospitalised for their own safety
>   being put onto longer-acting antidepressants, although I'm not
>   convinced that's going to make any difference at all!
>
>   As you point out, you've got a huge topic! Good luck with it.
>
>   Liz
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
>
>
>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
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>   URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.
>
>
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>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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>
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>
>
>

Oops!!!
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: John F. Prior
   To: mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 3:57 PM
   Subject: Re: [mentalmagazine] Re: Claire's question about compulsory
medication in the community



   Claire,
   Could you fix the date/time on your computer so that your emails would have a
valid date and time?
   TIA
   John
   "claire.vokins" <claire.vokins@...> wrote:Liz, thank for this. I
worded my last e-mail very badly. I did not mean that depot injections are
irrelevant to the bill at all!!! Far from it - totally the opposite!!  I was
responding to Bob's comment that, with regard to the bill, areas of contention
seem to be mainly focussed on persons who are a danger  others and  it is
irrelevant that there are no depot injections for depression, compulsive
disorders etc.

   However, Clause 6(3)(b)(i) provides the patient will be subject to compulsory
powers: " it is necessary for the health or safety of the patient, or the
protection of other persons that medical treatment be provided for him or her.
Surely this does include persons who are likely to be at risk of hurting
themselves through depression etc. Once risk has (allegedly) been established,
either to other persons or to themselves, it seems that the limitation as to how
many people could be subject to the CTO's is at the moment simply one of the
'delivery problem'.

   It may not be relevant at this precise moment to the bill because of this, but
surely will be in the not too distant future. Once the legislation provides an
opening, I'm sure the financial lure will spur the drug companies onto produce a
drug, tailor made to fit the legislation (too cynical??). As more drugs  become
licensed for long term depot, this will widen the category of persons who can
then be subject to these proposed orders and the category of  mental disorder' 
6(1) that can be treated in this way will widen.

   (According to my friendly and obliging pharmacist, there are seven new
atypical antipsychotic drugs available, Amisulpride, Clozapine, Olanzapine,
Quetiapine, Risperidone, Ziprasidone and Zotepine.  However only one, risperdal
consta is the only depot atypical licensed as a long term injectable drug.
Olanzapine and Ziprasidone only exist as short term injectables and the others
are not available at all in depot form).

   Claire
     ----- Original Message -----
     From: Liz Main <lizmain@...>
     To: mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com
     Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 1:43 PM
     Subject: [mentalmagazine] Re: Claire's question about compulsory medication
in the community


     Hi Claire

     Your dissertation sounds very interesting. I don't see how depot
     injections can be considered irrelevant to the draft bill - for most
     people this is likely to be the area of biggest impact: they will be
     forced to receive depot injections as a cheaper option to
     hospitalisation. And while in theory this will only be applied to
     people who are a danger to themself or to others, in practice it
     will apply to people who have in the past been sectioned repeatedly.
     Louis Appleby has said often that CTOs will be used to
     stop "revolving door" admissions to hospital.

     I expect that daily injections of drugs such as olanzapine, which I
     believe it just about to come out in daily injectable doses, will be
     used in hospitals primarily, and given to people who tend to spit
     out their medication. As you point out, it's going to be an
     administrative nightmare to go around forcing people to have
     injections on a daily basis. But I'm sure it won't be too long until
     they turn them into longer-acting depots. As for other atypicals, I
     think clopixol/accuphase is an atypical, but I'm really not sure
     about that.

     I'm also not sure whether prozac has actually been released in the
     slow-release version - a skin implant that is similar to that used
     for contraceptive drugs and which lasts about six months. I know Eli
     Lilly were working on it. I think we will increasingly see people
     with depression who are frequently hospitalised for their own safety
     being put onto longer-acting antidepressants, although I'm not
     convinced that's going to make any difference at all!

     As you point out, you've got a huge topic! Good luck with it.

     Liz


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   John F. Prior                  jprior@...
   Chicago, IL 60656-1639
   My Yahoo Calendar:       http://calendar.yahoo.com/j_prior
   My Home/Office phone:  773-774-6696,   Fax: 781-459-8592
   My Cell Phone:              773-230-5825,   Question:   Matthew 22:36

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Claire,
Could you fix the date/time on your computer so that your emails would have a
valid date and time?
TIA
John
  "claire.vokins" <claire.vokins@...> wrote:Liz, thank for this. I
worded my last e-mail very badly. I did not mean that depot injections are
irrelevant to the bill at all!!! Far from it - totally the opposite!!  I was
responding to Bob's comment that, with regard to the bill, areas of contention
seem to be mainly focussed on persons who are a danger  others and  it is
irrelevant that there are no depot injections for depression, compulsive
disorders etc.

However, Clause 6(3)(b)(i) provides the patient will be subject to compulsory
powers: " it is necessary for the health or safety of the patient, or the
protection of other persons that medical treatment be provided for him or her.
Surely this does include persons who are likely to be at risk of hurting
themselves through depression etc. Once risk has (allegedly) been established,
either to other persons or to themselves, it seems that the limitation as to how
many people could be subject to the CTO's is at the moment simply one of the
'delivery problem'.

It may not be relevant at this precise moment to the bill because of this, but
surely will be in the not too distant future. Once the legislation provides an
opening, I'm sure the financial lure will spur the drug companies onto produce a
drug, tailor made to fit the legislation (too cynical??). As more drugs  become
licensed for long term depot, this will widen the category of persons who can
then be subject to these proposed orders and the category of  mental disorder' 
6(1) that can be treated in this way will widen.

(According to my friendly and obliging pharmacist, there are seven new atypical
antipsychotic drugs available, Amisulpride, Clozapine, Olanzapine, Quetiapine,
Risperidone, Ziprasidone and Zotepine.  However only one, risperdal consta is
the only depot atypical licensed as a long term injectable drug. Olanzapine and
Ziprasidone only exist as short term injectables and the others are not
available at all in depot form).

Claire
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Liz Main <lizmain@...>
   To: mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 1:43 PM
   Subject: [mentalmagazine] Re: Claire's question about compulsory medication in
the community


   Hi Claire

   Your dissertation sounds very interesting. I don't see how depot
   injections can be considered irrelevant to the draft bill - for most
   people this is likely to be the area of biggest impact: they will be
   forced to receive depot injections as a cheaper option to
   hospitalisation. And while in theory this will only be applied to
   people who are a danger to themself or to others, in practice it
   will apply to people who have in the past been sectioned repeatedly.
   Louis Appleby has said often that CTOs will be used to
   stop "revolving door" admissions to hospital.

   I expect that daily injections of drugs such as olanzapine, which I
   believe it just about to come out in daily injectable doses, will be
   used in hospitals primarily, and given to people who tend to spit
   out their medication. As you point out, it's going to be an
   administrative nightmare to go around forcing people to have
   injections on a daily basis. But I'm sure it won't be too long until
   they turn them into longer-acting depots. As for other atypicals, I
   think clopixol/accuphase is an atypical, but I'm really not sure
   about that.

   I'm also not sure whether prozac has actually been released in the
   slow-release version - a skin implant that is similar to that used
   for contraceptive drugs and which lasts about six months. I know Eli
   Lilly were working on it. I think we will increasingly see people
   with depression who are frequently hospitalised for their own safety
   being put onto longer-acting antidepressants, although I'm not
   convinced that's going to make any difference at all!

   As you point out, you've got a huge topic! Good luck with it.

   Liz


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   URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.


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John F. Prior                  jprior@...
Chicago, IL 60656-1639
My Yahoo Calendar:       http://calendar.yahoo.com/j_prior
My Home/Office phone:  773-774-6696,   Fax: 781-459-8592
My Cell Phone:              773-230-5825,   Question:   Matthew 22:36

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Liz, thank for this. I worded my last e-mail very badly. I did not mean that
depot injections are irrelevant to the bill at all!!! Far from it - totally the
opposite!!  I was responding to Bob's comment that, with regard to the bill,
areas of contention seem to be mainly focussed on persons who are a danger 
others and  it is irrelevant that there are no depot injections for depression,
compulsive disorders etc.

However, Clause 6(3)(b)(i) provides the patient will be subject to compulsory
powers: " it is necessary for the health or safety of the patient, or the
protection of other persons that medical treatment be provided for him or her.
Surely this does include persons who are likely to be at risk of hurting
themselves through depression etc. Once risk has (allegedly) been established,
either to other persons or to themselves, it seems that the limitation as to how
many people could be subject to the CTO's is at the moment simply one of the
'delivery problem'.

It may not be relevant at this precise moment to the bill because of this, but
surely will be in the not too distant future. Once the legislation provides an
opening, I'm sure the financial lure will spur the drug companies onto produce a
drug, tailor made to fit the legislation (too cynical??). As more drugs  become
licensed for long term depot, this will widen the category of persons who can
then be subject to these proposed orders and the category of  mental disorder' 
6(1) that can be treated in this way will widen.

(According to my friendly and obliging pharmacist, there are seven new atypical
antipsychotic drugs available, Amisulpride, Clozapine, Olanzapine, Quetiapine,
Risperidone, Ziprasidone and Zotepine.  However only one, risperdal consta is
the only depot atypical licensed as a long term injectable drug. Olanzapine and
Ziprasidone only exist as short term injectables and the others are not
available at all in depot form).

Claire
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Liz Main <lizmain@...>
   To: mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 1:43 PM
   Subject: [mentalmagazine] Re: Claire's question about compulsory medication in
the community


   Hi Claire

   Your dissertation sounds very interesting. I don't see how depot
   injections can be considered irrelevant to the draft bill - for most
   people this is likely to be the area of biggest impact: they will be
   forced to receive depot injections as a cheaper option to
   hospitalisation. And while in theory this will only be applied to
   people who are a danger to themself or to others, in practice it
   will apply to people who have in the past been sectioned repeatedly.
   Louis Appleby has said often that CTOs will be used to
   stop "revolving door" admissions to hospital.

   I expect that daily injections of drugs such as olanzapine, which I
   believe it just about to come out in daily injectable doses, will be
   used in hospitals primarily, and given to people who tend to spit
   out their medication. As you point out, it's going to be an
   administrative nightmare to go around forcing people to have
   injections on a daily basis. But I'm sure it won't be too long until
   they turn them into longer-acting depots. As for other atypicals, I
   think clopixol/accuphase is an atypical, but I'm really not sure
   about that.

   I'm also not sure whether prozac has actually been released in the
   slow-release version - a skin implant that is similar to that used
   for contraceptive drugs and which lasts about six months. I know Eli
   Lilly were working on it. I think we will increasingly see people
   with depression who are frequently hospitalised for their own safety
   being put onto longer-acting antidepressants, although I'm not
   convinced that's going to make any difference at all!

   As you point out, you've got a huge topic! Good luck with it.

   Liz


         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
               ADVERTISEMENT




   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


   This Yahoo!Group is part of MENTAL MAGAZINE uk
   URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.


   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Claire

Your dissertation sounds very interesting. I don't see how depot
injections can be considered irrelevant to the draft bill - for most
people this is likely to be the area of biggest impact: they will be
forced to receive depot injections as a cheaper option to
hospitalisation. And while in theory this will only be applied to
people who are a danger to themself or to others, in practice it
will apply to people who have in the past been sectioned repeatedly.
Louis Appleby has said often that CTOs will be used to
stop "revolving door" admissions to hospital.

I expect that daily injections of drugs such as olanzapine, which I
believe it just about to come out in daily injectable doses, will be
used in hospitals primarily, and given to people who tend to spit
out their medication. As you point out, it's going to be an
administrative nightmare to go around forcing people to have
injections on a daily basis. But I'm sure it won't be too long until
they turn them into longer-acting depots. As for other atypicals, I
think clopixol/accuphase is an atypical, but I'm really not sure
about that.

I'm also not sure whether prozac has actually been released in the
slow-release version - a skin implant that is similar to that used
for contraceptive drugs and which lasts about six months. I know Eli
Lilly were working on it. I think we will increasingly see people
with depression who are frequently hospitalised for their own safety
being put onto longer-acting antidepressants, although I'm not
convinced that's going to make any difference at all!

As you point out, you've got a huge topic! Good luck with it.

Liz

I will say a prayer for Zett.
  "opiel82 <opiel2000@...>" <opiel2000@...> wrote:Hello group,
      I have a prayer request. My best freind Zett that was in the
fire is in intensive care right now.  When she ran out to get away
from the fire, she fell against the car, and she fell down in the
road. The blow against the car caused a blood clot in her lung. She
is having heart problems along with it, and breathing problems, and I
am hoping that she pulls through this.  She has a heart murmur, and
she is a brittle diabetic.  She has had strokes in the past as well.
I don't want this arson fire to be six counts of attempted murder,
and one murder.  I will keep you updated, and thanks for the prayers.
Love,  Opiel


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John F. Prior                  jprior@...
Chicago, IL 60656-1639
My Yahoo Calendar:       http://calendar.yahoo.com/j_prior
My Home/Office phone:  773-774-6696,   Fax: 781-459-8592
My Cell Phone:              773-230-5825,   Question:   Matthew 22:36

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob, Thanks for this. I am researching the passage of the draft bill for my
dissertation, the two areas of interest to me are firstly the proposal of
compulsory medication outside the hospital environment ("less restrictive
approach") and secondly the DSPD issue.  Concentrating on these two issues
alone, I had to decide where to start the research process!! This has involved a
two stage research plan really. I decided to start with the proposed legislation
to give me a clear picture of what was being changed/added/removed etc.  I have
firstly looked at each consultation process - comparing green paper up to draft
bill, responses to the consultation process and individual responses in detail. 
Having done that, I am now concentrating on the second half of the project,
which is what is actually happening in the 'real world'. Statistics of
re-offending/studies for predictive behaviour for DSPD etc etc. (I'm not quite
sure how many dissertations I wish to write - each area is so vast isn't
it!!)The Zito foundation's report - "Looking forward to a First class mental
service, introduced me to the medication/NICE guidelines issues, which prompted
my initial question.

I do realise that with regard to the draft bill the question of depot injections
if mainly irrelevant - It was just a general 'interest' question really about
other medications which could be administered for other illnesses.

Regards, Claire



riginal Message -----
   From: Bob Axford
   To: mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 9:45 PM
   Subject: Re: [mentalmagazine] Re: Claire's question about compulsory
medication in the community


   Hi Claire

   To act as Devil's Advocate, there are two groups of people who have caused
   concern leading to the provisions of the Draft Bill.  These are people who
   behave violently to others due to psychosis or due to personality disorder.
   It is not particularly relevent that there are no depot injections for
   depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, etc.

   Regards
   Bob

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: "claire.vokins" <claire.vokins@...>
   To: <mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: 11 January 2003 19:37
   Subject: Re: [mentalmagazine] Re: Claire's question about compulsory
   medication in the community


   > Hi
   >
   > My question has now been answered, thank you. I am new to the study of
   Mental Health issues, and, I was pretty sure that I had understood the
   situation correctly: i.e. that the choice of the newer atypical
   antipsychotics which could be administered by way of  'long term depot' was
   very limited - only one drug licensed - risperdal consta- with two others
   licensed for injection but not long term.
   >
   >  'Long term' would be necessary otherwise the suggested system would be
   administratively unworkable. This necessarily would mean, that if the
   suggested compulsory treatment in the community were to become a reality,
   then the only 'long term' medication available would be the older drugs,
   which carried with them such appalling side effects.
   >
   > I found this concept so bizarre, I doubted I had understood things
   correctly so I asked the group.
   >
   > Without going into the pros/cons of compulsory treatment, on this point
   alone I find the 'arrogance' of this proposed legislation simply
   breathtaking
   >
   > Another question here, what other medication would be administered by
   depot - this situation must not only apply to antipsychotics - does it cover
   a wide range of medications?
   >
   > Claire
   >
   >   ----- Original Message -----
   >   From: ramboghettouk <ramboghettouk@...>
   >   To: mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com
   >   Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 7:29 PM
   >   Subject: [mentalmagazine] Re: Claire's question about compulsory
   medication in the community
   >
   >
   >   ---
   >
   >   It's not just whether the SSRIS can be ibjected, it's whether the
   >   injections are long lasting, if they have to be given every day their
   >   no better than tablets, i guess thats the nasty psychiatric view, i
   >   can understand why the old injections are disliked, they have nasty
   >   side efffects, i don't like the drugs i'm on, but given the hand of
   >   poker i've got, i don't have much choice.
   >
   >
   >
   >   In mentalmagazine@yahoogroups.com, "John F. Prior" <jprior@w...>
   >   wrote:
   >   >
   >   > You might also consider joining ssri-crusaders another Yahoo
   >   group.  They can educate you on the side effects of SSRI drugs.
   >   >  Rosemary Moore <rosemary.moore@v...> wrote:We haven't responded to
   >   Claire's question (below) on this board yet, but she
   >   > has had some responses on the mentalhealthlaw board, one from
   >   Richard Jones
   >   > who produces the Mental Health Act Manual used by most social work
   >   > professionals.  That board is closed so you will have to join to
   >   read the
   >   > messages.  The board is at
   >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mentalhealthlaw
   >   >
   >   > The question - whether the new drugs (so-called "atypicals") can be
   >   injected
   >   > is one that has been a topic of much debate in respect of compulsory
   >   > treatment in the community.
   >   >
   >   > Does anyone here have a view on this subject?
   >   >
   >   > Thu Jan 9, 2003
   >   > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mentalmagazine/message/2085 Could
   >   someone put
   >   > me straight on a point please. Proposed measures for compulsory
   >   medication
   >   > outside hospital, will obviously involve the use of long-acting
   >   injections.
   >   > Are these injections limited to the old style antipsychotic
   >   medication, or
   >   > can the new atypical medications as recommended in NICE guidelines
   >   be used
   >   > in long term injections also.
   >   > Thanks,
   >   > Claire
   >   >
   >   >
   >   > posted by rosemary
   >   > Surrey UK
   >   > www.mentalmagazine.co.uk
   >   > "Campaigning for good health & social care...it's for everyone"
   >   >
   >   >
   >   > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   >   > mentalmagazine-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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   >   >
   >   > This Yahoo!Group is part of MENTAL MAGAZINE uk
   >   > URL:  http://www.mentalmagazine.co.uk.
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   >   > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
   >   Service.
   >   >
   >   >
   >   > John F. Prior                  jprior@w...
   >   > Chicago, IL 60656-1639
   >   > My Yahoo Calendar:       http://calendar.yahoo.com/j_prior
   >   > My Home/Office phone:  773-774-6696,   Fax: 781-459-8592
   >   > My Cell Phone:              773-230-5825,   Question:   Matthew
   >   22:36
   >   >
   >   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
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