It depends. Whether meditation is like DWCL(Daily Wager Casual
Labourer)OR like DWCL(Daily Wager Continuous Labourer).
regards



--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "J"
<thebluze@...> wrote:
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
> > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Here is mine:
> > >
> > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
beautiful
> > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings
and it is
> > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens
are
> > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
for
> > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
my
> > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
time I
> > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
feelings
> > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became
wise to
> > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings
flowing into
> > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
matter
> > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
> > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the
forefront.
> > >
> > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a
mantra,
> > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative
state is
> > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
meditation,
> > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
mucking
> > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
altered
> > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
> > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
and at
> > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is
much more
> > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
loving
> > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
> > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
> > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
forth
> > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-
induced
> > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense
than
> > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is
deliberately
> > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
more
> > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
> > >
> > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can
be
> > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
or
> > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single
clear
> > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
> > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
mentioned
> > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of
ones own
> > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
while
> > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that
wisdom
> > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
> > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
> > >
> > Yo Westwind,
> > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
> > and recognize some things that we differ about,
> > such as the statements about dreams being "much
> > more intense than meditation". But I think we
> > may just have different things in mind when we
> > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
> > various states of consciousness. For instance,
> > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
> > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
> > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
> > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
> > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
> > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
> > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
> > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
> > a way that never was known before, the adult in
> > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
> > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
> > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
> > meditating upon.
> > Peace and blessings,
> > Bob
>
>
>
>
> Dear friends......
>
> <i>It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
> > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue or
> > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
> > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
> > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
mentioned
> > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones
own
> > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity while
> > meditating for 45 minutes.</i>
>
>
> I think there is a lot to that statement. I do not think there is
any
> forcing any "jhana" or euphoric state associated with meditation.
>
> Lately I would say my meditation has plateaued. I think there are
> greater things going on to be discovered when they are to be
> discovered. I think some of the best things are discovered on
one's
> own, with only an attitude of fearlessness, going forth in "the
> journey". Meditation can be truly scary, when you enter states,
> without an awareness of self, being or "ego". The herb <i> Salvia
> Divinorum</i> is used in religious ceremonies by various cultures,
and
> produces a state where there is no "ego" and the spirit seems to
> function "out of body" and mind. I've had some experience with
this
> "ethnogen" and the "egolessness" experienced may have assisted me
in
> attaining certain meditative states, but I think the primary
element
> responsible was simpling meditating at least twice daily, in a
variety
> of settings.
>
> I started TM and yoga after I'd been jumped by three convicts on
the
> run. They assaulted me and knocked me unconscious on Halloween
night.
>
> Oddly the Halloween night two years before that, I had a vivid
> nightmare about being attacked, pursued by three individuals
> oddly like those assaulters. This was about the time I started
> getting into dream journaling and became conscious in my dreams
that I
> was "dreaming" and could control those dreams, also known as "lucid
> dreaming".
>
> During one "lucid" moment, in a dream, when I was actually able to
> stay asleep while being in full awareness of my dreamstate, I put a
> hand forth, into the face of an old man walking across a rope
bridge
> towards me in some huge primeval bottomless gorge. Following my
hand,
> I tumbled forth, into this "old man" through space and mists and
times
> and ended up in what felt like some ancient civilization, sitting
in a
> meditation pose with a "teacher" sitting in front of me.
>
> If meditation has taught me one thing, it is that "reality" is a
> highly dynamic quantity and like anything "in time", it is
continually
> changing, reflecting, creating and destroying life, like there is
no
> creating and destroying, only life in spirit and spirit in life,
> constantly morphing, flowing, creating and recreating.
>
> I have had some truly profound and "psychic" experiences as the
result
> of the "dream waking" state. The level I have reached, while just
> "resting" a few times, not "trying" to reach any state. That's a
whole
> nother story though ! 8)
>
> I have had some profoundly pleasurable and frightening experiences
in
> meditation this year. Really this year is the only time I have
> dedicated myself to twice daily meditation and I think other
> experiences in life have led me to some really deep substantive
> mediations. I have seen some incredible vistas. collages of shapes,
> forms, colors. Faces of people like they are standing right in
front
> of me. I do not know who any of these people I have seen are. I
have
> known all kinds of physical sensations while meditating, some
painful.
> I've gone through what I could only consider to be "healing".
>
> In these scant two months I have been meditating daily I have
noticed
> a greater feeling of power over my body or perhaps unity IN my
body. I
> have been able to reduce and in some cases totally cease chronic
pain
> I think a lot of this comes from yogic exercises in relaxing
various
> parts of my body. My thinking has changed. There is not so
much "mind
> chatter" going on before I do somethings. It's like
I "intuitively" do
> things or think of answers to problems without "thinking". I've
only
> tasted these benefits and I'm hungry for more. You know how it is
with
> this though, you can't "hunger" for it. You just have to let it be.
> Which of course is much easier than it sounds, or is it ? 8)
>
> I wrote the following after, what I would call, my first
experience in
> this deeper, more fulfilling meditation as "journey":
>
>
> <i>January 8, 2008
>
> Today, midway on my walk , I sat on the picnic bench in the park
> to meditate. I entered a warm and lucid state, like the soft
> core in a total and engulfing sphere. With my eyes shut, all
> the sounds surrounding, changing, interweaving, with tens of
> thousands of voices coming from the torrents and trickling
> of the creek forty feet in front of me. They changed and
> morphed into one another, always in harmony, always imperfect
> yet pure, as we too could be. When I gently awoke, there was a
> beautiful woman, like some sweet revelation,
> walking by on the otherside.
>
> After some alternate breathing exercises, I struck out,
> fresh and renewed, on the trail I often take. An old
> rotted oak had fallen by the trails head, and I thought,
> "This is how all living things must die, from the inside out
> not from the outside in." Then I thought how all living
> things are spherical in nature, trillions upon trillions
> of spheres, of every form and size, vibrating together,
> making one huge sphere, The Earth. Then on and on,
> planets, solar systems, and galaxies, on into infinity,
> never point A to B, rather round and round and round.
>
> On my way out of the woods, I slipped on a muddy bank.
> I grasped the branch of an oak sapling, wiping off the
> mud on my hands on it's dead leaves. I thought,
> "This is how I must touch all things, with ease, gently."</i>
>
>
> peace
>