all over the net I hear about a cream called neem.
Do you know anything about it?
Is it truely helpful??

Keith

Firstly, I have no medical background and didn't even really like
biology at school, so a lot of this is very new to me. Also as it
might be relevant, I'm 26, male and live in London.

I am in agreement with Samuels comments toward the heat methods of
contraception.

My girlfriend has recently stopped using the pill (after us being
together for 3 years) for seperate health reasons.

We are not getting on well with condoms and do not want to risk the
withdrawl method. Neither of us want to do anything permenant or
surgical (although it was looking like the only option until seeing
your web site). This does leave the heat method of contraception
looking very strong, although I do realise that this should not be
the only form of contraception. At the moment our method of
contraception is "not having sex", obviously I would like this to
change.

I would very much like to get more information about the suspensory
brief method. It may be uncomfortable, but is worth a go just to see
if its feasable.
If anyone could forward information on how to obtain one of these
briefs I would be very appreciative.

Again as Samuel said, if I was going to try either of these heat
methods or any other new method I would like to be able to monthly
measure the effectivness of the method. I'm not sure if all you guys
are only in the US and don't know about this in the UK, but is there
somewhere or someone that I could get in contact with that would be
able to advise on organising a sperm count or check?

Any further information on either the heat method or sperm
counts/checks would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Sam





--- In malecontraceptives@yahoogroups.com, "gosha
<captainkrusty@y...>" <captainkrusty@y...> wrote:
> Dear originators of malecontraceptives.com
>
> I read through most of the cite and found it well done and
amazingly
> informative. I came upon your link while looking for information on
> norplant, which I was doing out frustration with the state of
> contraceptives in our society. I care a lot for my girlfriend, and
> consider safe sex practises to be of at utmost importance. We have
> been strugling with contraceptives for a long time, trying to find
> the right mix to optimise protection and feeling. So finding the
> information you posted about heat treatments, was like a godsend to
> me.
>
> After I read everything over, plus the information on the subject I
> found in some of your links, and the thing that suprised me most
was
> how little exclamation (even from you) was accroded to it. I mean,
as
> far as I can tell, this is "the" male contraceptive. Cheap(not
> counting the water bill), easy (so you soak your balls for half an
> hour in hot water twice a month on average, big deal, it could be a
> tradition even become a tradition), non binding (you can take baths
> at any time, or can miss a day, no big deal, unlike with the pill),
> non intrusive (no drugs, no surgery, no incerts, no problem), safe
> (if you are careful to not get scalded), and fully reversible (as
> shown by the studies, plus we all heard of those cases of infertile
> men, that just had to stop wearing tight pants to consieve.) Yes it
> hasnt been fully tested, and yes for safety one should also combine
> it with at least one sperm blocking method, it seems like the best
> method out there right now, period. One that I can go and try right
> now, without waiting for the FDA.
>
> Furthermore, as a devout feminist, I feel much better that there is
> more things that I could do to take responcibility for my actions.
I
> believe in using two contraceptive methods, and have no problem
with
> male condoms, but I do feel pretty bad about my girlfriend using
the
> pill, as it is big costly hassle and messes with the female system,
> which is just not fair, as all I have to do is put on a condom. Sex
> is enjoed by both sexes, but it seems that the burden is
> dispraportionately so on the women for it(considering the risks of
> childbirth and abortion).
>
> So I would like to ask: This just seems like such a great method. I
> really want to start on it, but should I talk to a doctor first?
> Also, is there any way of getting a sperm count or check? So that I
> could see if this is an effective method.
>
> It makes me wonder why isn't this out there, right now. Sure it
wasnt
> tested, but there are millions of people out there right now trying
> the stupidest methods from pepsi doushes to withdrawl. Why isnt
this
> used by the developing countrees, is hot water so hard to get
really?
> Waht about the drug hating hippies, wouldnt they be on top of this?
>
> The only answer that I could find, is that there is no money to be
> made from this. Its information, you cant sell it.... Big money is
on
> the line, so perhaps this is being actively suppressed. Maybe it
> could be a movement....
>
> In any case, thank you for the site.
>
> -Samuel, from NY

Dear crushingchestpain,

I think that Matt was drawing a logical INFERENCE.

Jim

--- In malecontraceptives@yahoogroups.com, "crushingchestpain
<tcarpent_60175@y...>" <tcarpent_60175@y...> wrote:
> Matt, when giving our health advise you should advertise your
> credentials and be familiar with recent clinical trials if you want
> to have any credibility.

Joe,
Why does your website not have a link to Vasclip and its results?

Matt, when giving our health advise you should advertise your
credentials and be familiar with recent clinical trials if you want
to have any credibility.

Dear Kirsten,

Contrary to what you apparently think, there IS a rupture, and it IS
called a "blow out", and there IS an open-ended vasectomy which was
developed to address this problem.  Anyone who does not believe it
can look it up.

The exact PLACE of the rupture is a quibble.

The open ended vasectomy DOES NOT get you around the auto-immune
conundrum.  I admit to being not an expert on auto-immune responses,
but I have heard that they are some of the most intractable problems
among diseases.

Jim

--- In malecontraceptives@yahoogroups.com, "malecontraceptives
<info@m...>" <info@m...> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Thanks for your message.  Joe and I have chosen not to include
> vasectomy as a category on our website, primarily because of the
> difficulties with reversal.  It's a reliable method of
sterilization,
> but an unreliable method of reversible contraception.
>
> And Matt, nobody's *testicles* rupture after a vasectomy.  See the
> abstract below:
>
> "Following vasectomy, spermatogenesis continues, the human
epididymis
> and ductus deferens may distend and leak, and the extravasated
> spermatozoa stimulate formation of a sperm granuloma. Granulomas
may
> occur at 60% of vasectomy sites and are usually asymptomatic and
> relieve intraluminal pressure. About 3-5% of patients experience
> pain... Distension of the epididymis is common after vasectomy and
> may lead to granuloma formation there. Up to 6% of patients have
> symptoms, but many with epididymal changes have no discomfort. Most
> episodes of painful epididymitis and granulomas resolve with
> conservative treatment, but < 1% require vasectomy reversal or, if
> this is ineffective, excision of the epididymis and obstructed
ductus
> deferens." (From Clinical Anatomy 1996 9(5): 337-42)
>
> Most granulomas disappear within a year of vasectomy.
>
> Kirsten

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your message.  Joe and I have chosen not to include
vasectomy as a category on our website, primarily because of the
difficulties with reversal.  It's a reliable method of sterilization,
but an unreliable method of reversible contraception.

And Matt, nobody's *testicles* rupture after a vasectomy.  See the
abstract below:

"Following vasectomy, spermatogenesis continues, the human epididymis
and ductus deferens may distend and leak, and the extravasated
spermatozoa stimulate formation of a sperm granuloma. Granulomas may
occur at 60% of vasectomy sites and are usually asymptomatic and
relieve intraluminal pressure. About 3-5% of patients experience
pain... Distension of the epididymis is common after vasectomy and
may lead to granuloma formation there. Up to 6% of patients have
symptoms, but many with epididymal changes have no discomfort. Most
episodes of painful epididymitis and granulomas resolve with
conservative treatment, but < 1% require vasectomy reversal or, if
this is ineffective, excision of the epididymis and obstructed ductus
deferens." (From Clinical Anatomy 1996 9(5): 337-42)

Most granulomas disappear within a year of vasectomy.

Kirsten

--- In malecontraceptives@yahoogroups.com, Matt Campbell <mcc99@y...>
wrote:
> Thanks, Chris.  The problem with the vasclip is that
> sperm will still be getting produced and will build up
> in the testes, leading to eventual testicle rupture
> and the painful complications that follow.  So while
> the vasclip is a nice idea, it still is not a real
> alternative to a reversible and low-risk male
> contraceptive technique (which we are still waiting
> on...).
>
> The "male pill" is (supposedly) due out in 2005.
> Clinical trials are currently underway.  So, let's
> just hang on and see what happens... 2 more years to
> go...
>
> -----
>    Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:04:27 -0000
>    From: "cj123_1999 <chrisherman@m...>"
> <chrisherman@m...>
> Subject: Vasclip
>
> I stumbled across your site, and have read thru the
> posts here, and
> articles on the .org url. Very nice. It seems that the
> main focus
> here is reversable male techniques, so I'm not sure if
> this would
> necessarily be of interest, but there is another
> company that I had
> seen on the news nearly a year ago that is doing work
> in furthuring
> the options avaliable. Their site is www.vasclip.com
>
> Just an FYI, and keep up the good work.
>
> Chris
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Hi Arvan,

I just looked up the study you refer to:

Journal of Reproduction & Fertility 1982 65(1): 9-13
"An intravasal non-occlusive contraceptive device in rats."
Misro MM, Kaur H, Mahajan S, Guha SK.

This is the same team of researchers working on RISUG.  My guess is
that they've abandoned this line of research in order to focus on
RISUG, which also disables sperm using an small electric charge.

You make a good point regarding the toxicity of RISUG versus the
biogalvanic cells.  One of the RISUG researchers, when discussing the
toxicity of RISUG, used an analogy that stuck with me.  He said that
the complex of DMSO and SMA is stable and nontoxic.  He pointed out
that saying that RISUG is dangerous becasue its components are
dangerous it like saying table salt is toxic.  Pure sodium is
explosively reactive, and chlorine gas is noxious.  But table salt,
NaCl, is stable and nontoxic.

The removal of the biogalvanic cells would probably require scalpel
surgery, similar to the shug and injected plugs.  Even if it takes as
long as 5 years for the cells to become oxidized and ineffective, a
man might undergo 6-10 replacement procedures during his reproductive
lifespan.  I would consider this a major drawback of this method.

Kirsten

--- In malecontraceptives@yahoogroups.com, "bodhi_arvana
<bodhi_arvana@y...>" <bodhi_arvana@y...> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've been researching alternatives to vasectomy, and have come
> across a reference to a study done in 1982, which tested a small
> device consisting of two dissimilar metals inserted in the vas.
The
> idea is that when sperm passes between the metal electrodes, a
> galvanic current is created which kills the sperm.
>
> The device allows the sperm to pass through, so there is no danger
> of the body developing sperm antibodies, as with vasectomy, the
> shug, etc.  And it's non-chemical, unlike RISUG, so has no danger
of
> toxicity.
>
> In other words, it seems like the PERFECT solution to male
> contraception.  A simple implantation using the no-scalpel method,
> and you get almost immediate infertility, with total reversibility
> by removing the device.  It would have a limited life, as one of
the
> electrodes would gradually oxidise, but even if it had to be
> replaced every few years, that would only be a minor drawback.
>
> So the question is, why hasn't any more research been done on this
> idea?  I'm almost thinking of making a pair of the devices to
> implant on myself!  If anyone knows anything more about this, I
> would love to hear about it!
>
> Arvan

I have to very strongly disagree with age having anything to do with
sterilization.  I am 23 and work in the medical profession myself. It
has taken me 5 years to find a doctor willing to sterilize me.  I have
opted for Essure (a flexable spring containing a dacron thread is
inserted via the cervix into the fallopian tubes.the dacron thread
stimulates the body to form tissue around it, occluding the tube
www.essure.com)  I am firmly of the opinion that if you are old enough
to decide to have children, you are also old enough to decide NOT to
have them.
While there are potential complications with a tubal ( as with any
procedure that alters the body) they are _potential_ complications and
working in the medical profession for nearly six years, I have yet to
run into anyone at work (or in my personal life for that matter) who
has suffered from anything worse than mild pain and swelling for the
first few days after the surgery.
Most of the complications listed on the dontfixit websight are
downright false.  I meen some of the claims on the afformentioned page
are so  asinine my  lifemate and I accually laughed out loud.  I meen
the first thing that sprang to mind was that dontfixit was composed by
an uneducated group of paranoid catholics to scare people their
followers into not getting their tubes tied.  I was especially amused
by the claim that vasectomies can lead to increased incidences of
multiple sclerosis.
Vasectomies are safe and effective and complications are rare.  In
fact complications are usually caused by patients not following the
doctors instructions for bedrest and ice to keep swelling down to a
minimum.

Further more pregnancy is widley known to be rife with complications
and its far easyer to change your mind about a tubal and have it
reversed than it is to do the same with a child. Yes its true that you
might change your mind 5 years from now and want a child, but its also
true that you could have a child and change your mind about wanting it
5 years later. Pregnancy complications under the best of conditions
happen to be fairly common.
Unfortunalty I dont know anything about the effectiveness of long term
sperm storage. To have a vasectomy reversed I am told is between
$4,000 to $6,000 and has about a %20 failure rate.  Due to the fact
that the body still continues to produce sperm, a fertility specialist
could harvest sperm directly from the testicles years  after a
vasectomy.
No-scalpel vasectomy is a technique that uses a small clamp with
pointed ends. The clamp is poked into the skin over the scrotum and
then opened, instead of using a scalpel to cut the skin. The benefits
of this procedure include less bleeding, a smaller hole in the skin,
and fewer complications. This procedure is as effective as a
traditional vasectomy.
If you are willing to travel I would suggest a look at RISUG.  I
believe it is in phase 3 trials in India.  I dont have any first hand
experiance with this, but its interesting none the less.  The doctor
who pionered the No-scalpel vasectomy injected his first patient with
SMA summer of 2002.  Here are a few links that I found of interest
http://www.uottawa.ca/services/markcom/news/2002/020226-2-e.html
http://malecontraceptives.org/methods/risug.htm
http://www.risug.org/

Like I said, if you are old enough to decide to have a child, you are
old enough to decide NOT to have children.

--- In malecontraceptives@yahoogroups.com, Matt Campbell <mcc99@y...>
wrote:
> Dear Ivy,
>
> I would re-consider strongly the idea of either of you
> sterilizing yourselves right now.  Simply put, you're
> both too young to be doing it.  Sterlization for
> either of you, esp. if one day you want to have one or
> more kids together, is a bad idea.  The track record
> on freezing sperm indefinitely is not good.  Your bf
> would have to save a lot of it and it is a very
> expensive proposition to get a dr. to use it to try to
> create a new human from it.
>
> There are numerous complications associated with
> getting a vasectomy (see http://www.dontfixit.org/ )
> that may not appear right away but could be very
> painful and very expensive to treat.  Urologists make
> most of their their money off treating complications
> due to vasectomoies-- that is why getting one is real
> cheap and getting a reversal is so much more
> expensive.  There are problems with tubal ligations as
> well.
>
> To avoid another unwanted pregnancy, use male or
> female condoms faithfully along with another form of
> contraception such as an IUD and/or spermicidal foams,
> and also withdrawal.  Contrary to popular belief,
> withdrawl *can be* as effective as the pill, but must
> be applied consistently.  It is best though to use at
> least 2 forms of contraception.  If you can only use
> female condoms, use withdrawal too.  If these don't
> seem to be working as far as you both applying them
> consitently, you may need to modify your sexual
> behavior with each other to reduce the chances of
> pregnancy.
>
> Good luck!  BTW, a BCP for men is expected to be out
> by 2005 after further clinical trials abroad and then
> here in the US.  Wait a little while, more options are
> coming...
>
> Matt
>
> >    Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 03:14:40 -0000
> >    From: "Ivy <wossoyi@y...>" <wossoyi@y...>
> > Subject: any other options
> >
> > We're a couple in our early tweenties.  I (the
> > female) am not able to
> > use any form of birth control other than female
> > condoms.  Initially
> > this was alright until I became pregnant.  I had to
> > have an abortion
> > when I became delusional and suicidal in an
> > emergency ward.  I cannot
> > put myself through that again!
> >
> > My boyfriend and I (living together) are planning on
> > going on to
> > sterilization.  He's willing to have a
> > sterilisation, but have his
> > sperm saved for future use.
> >
> > My question is this.  How effective is sperm saving?
> >  How long will it
> > be good for?  I plan on children only if my health
> > improves and not
> > for about 15 years if ever.  This is our only choice
> > as there are no
> > trials in our city for male methods.  We are willing
> > to travel
> > anywhere but the US, but haven't been able to find a
> > site as of yet.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > -i
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Thanks, Chris.  The problem with the vasclip is that
sperm will still be getting produced and will build up
in the testes, leading to eventual testicle rupture
and the painful complications that follow.  So while
the vasclip is a nice idea, it still is not a real
alternative to a reversible and low-risk male
contraceptive technique (which we are still waiting
on...).

The "male pill" is (supposedly) due out in 2005.
Clinical trials are currently underway.  So, let's
just hang on and see what happens... 2 more years to
go...

-----
    Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:04:27 -0000
    From: "cj123_1999 <chrisherman@...>"
<chrisherman@...>
Subject: Vasclip

I stumbled across your site, and have read thru the
posts here, and
articles on the .org url. Very nice. It seems that the
main focus
here is reversable male techniques, so I'm not sure if
this would
necessarily be of interest, but there is another
company that I had
seen on the news nearly a year ago that is doing work
in furthuring
the options avaliable. Their site is www.vasclip.com

Just an FYI, and keep up the good work.

Chris


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

I stumbled across your site, and have read thru the posts here, and
articles on the .org url. Very nice. It seems that the main focus
here is reversable male techniques, so I'm not sure if this would
necessarily be of interest, but there is another company that I had
seen on the news nearly a year ago that is doing work in furthuring
the options avaliable. Their site is www.vasclip.com

Just an FYI, and keep up the good work.

Chris

Hello,

I've been researching alternatives to vasectomy, and have come
across a reference to a study done in 1982, which tested a small
device consisting of two dissimilar metals inserted in the vas.  The
idea is that when sperm passes between the metal electrodes, a
galvanic current is created which kills the sperm.

The device allows the sperm to pass through, so there is no danger
of the body developing sperm antibodies, as with vasectomy, the
shug, etc.  And it's non-chemical, unlike RISUG, so has no danger of
toxicity.

In other words, it seems like the PERFECT solution to male
contraception.  A simple implantation using the no-scalpel method,
and you get almost immediate infertility, with total reversibility
by removing the device.  It would have a limited life, as one of the
electrodes would gradually oxidise, but even if it had to be
replaced every few years, that would only be a minor drawback.

So the question is, why hasn't any more research been done on this
idea?  I'm almost thinking of making a pair of the devices to
implant on myself!  If anyone knows anything more about this, I
would love to hear about it!

Arvan

Dear originators of malecontraceptives.com

I read through most of the cite and found it well done and amazingly
informative. I came upon your link while looking for information on
norplant, which I was doing out frustration with the state of
contraceptives in our society. I care a lot for my girlfriend, and
consider safe sex practises to be of at utmost importance. We have
been strugling with contraceptives for a long time, trying to find
the right mix to optimise protection and feeling. So finding the
information you posted about heat treatments, was like a godsend to
me.

After I read everything over, plus the information on the subject I
found in some of your links, and the thing that suprised me most was
how little exclamation (even from you) was accroded to it. I mean, as
far as I can tell, this is "the" male contraceptive. Cheap(not
counting the water bill), easy (so you soak your balls for half an
hour in hot water twice a month on average, big deal, it could be a
tradition even become a tradition), non binding (you can take baths
at any time, or can miss a day, no big deal, unlike with the pill),
non intrusive (no drugs, no surgery, no incerts, no problem), safe
(if you are careful to not get scalded), and fully reversible (as
shown by the studies, plus we all heard of those cases of infertile
men, that just had to stop wearing tight pants to consieve.) Yes it
hasnt been fully tested, and yes for safety one should also combine
it with at least one sperm blocking method, it seems like the best
method out there right now, period. One that I can go and try right
now, without waiting for the FDA.

Furthermore, as a devout feminist, I feel much better that there is
more things that I could do to take responcibility for my actions. I
believe in using two contraceptive methods, and have no problem with
male condoms, but I do feel pretty bad about my girlfriend using the
pill, as it is big costly hassle and messes with the female system,
which is just not fair, as all I have to do is put on a condom. Sex
is enjoed by both sexes, but it seems that the burden is
dispraportionately so on the women for it(considering the risks of
childbirth and abortion).

So I would like to ask: This just seems like such a great method. I
really want to start on it, but should I talk to a doctor first?
Also, is there any way of getting a sperm count or check? So that I
could see if this is an effective method.

It makes me wonder why isn't this out there, right now. Sure it wasnt
tested, but there are millions of people out there right now trying
the stupidest methods from pepsi doushes to withdrawl. Why isnt this
used by the developing countrees, is hot water so hard to get really?
Waht about the drug hating hippies, wouldnt they be on top of this?

The only answer that I could find, is that there is no money to be
made from this. Its information, you cant sell it.... Big money is on
the line, so perhaps this is being actively suppressed. Maybe it
could be a movement....

In any case, thank you for the site.

-Samuel, from NY

Dear Ivy,

I would re-consider strongly the idea of either of you
sterilizing yourselves right now.  Simply put, you're
both too young to be doing it.  Sterlization for
either of you, esp. if one day you want to have one or
more kids together, is a bad idea.  The track record
on freezing sperm indefinitely is not good.  Your bf
would have to save a lot of it and it is a very
expensive proposition to get a dr. to use it to try to
create a new human from it.

There are numerous complications associated with
getting a vasectomy (see http://www.dontfixit.org/ )
that may not appear right away but could be very
painful and very expensive to treat.  Urologists make
most of their their money off treating complications
due to vasectomoies-- that is why getting one is real
cheap and getting a reversal is so much more
expensive.  There are problems with tubal ligations as
well.

To avoid another unwanted pregnancy, use male or
female condoms faithfully along with another form of
contraception such as an IUD and/or spermicidal foams,
and also withdrawal.  Contrary to popular belief,
withdrawl *can be* as effective as the pill, but must
be applied consistently.  It is best though to use at
least 2 forms of contraception.  If you can only use
female condoms, use withdrawal too.  If these don't
seem to be working as far as you both applying them
consitently, you may need to modify your sexual
behavior with each other to reduce the chances of
pregnancy.

Good luck!  BTW, a BCP for men is expected to be out
by 2005 after further clinical trials abroad and then
here in the US.  Wait a little while, more options are
coming...

Matt

>    Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 03:14:40 -0000
>    From: "Ivy <wossoyi@...>" <wossoyi@...>
> Subject: any other options
>
> We're a couple in our early tweenties.  I (the
> female) am not able to
> use any form of birth control other than female
> condoms.  Initially
> this was alright until I became pregnant.  I had to
> have an abortion
> when I became delusional and suicidal in an
> emergency ward.  I cannot
> put myself through that again!
>
> My boyfriend and I (living together) are planning on
> going on to
> sterilization.  He's willing to have a
> sterilisation, but have his
> sperm saved for future use.
>
> My question is this.  How effective is sperm saving?
>  How long will it
> be good for?  I plan on children only if my health
> improves and not
> for about 15 years if ever.  This is our only choice
> as there are no
> trials in our city for male methods.  We are willing
> to travel
> anywhere but the US, but haven't been able to find a
> site as of yet.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> thanks,
>
> -i
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

We're a couple in our early tweenties.  I (the female) am not able to
use any form of birth control other than female condoms.  Initially
this was alright until I became pregnant.  I had to have an abortion
when I became delusional and suicidal in an emergency ward.  I cannot
put myself through that again!

My boyfriend and I (living together) are planning on going on to
sterilization.  He's willing to have a sterilisation, but have his
sperm saved for future use.

My question is this.  How effective is sperm saving?  How long will it
be good for?  I plan on children only if my health improves and not
for about 15 years if ever.  This is our only choice as there are no
trials in our city for male methods.  We are willing to travel
anywhere but the US, but haven't been able to find a site as of yet.

Any help would be appreciated.

thanks,

-i

I would like to note that I realize there is no "pill". However,
these compounds are available in injectable forms that can be
combined.



--- In malecontraceptives@yahoogroups.com, "rjr1217 <rjr1217@y...>"
<rjr1217@y...> wrote:
> I have read the medical journal articles on male contraception. I
> also know that these methods are not available very easily in the
US.
> Do you know where / how one can obtian prescriptions and sources of
> the hormone drugs either in the US or via overseas routes? Key is
> legal!
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciate.

I have read the medical journal articles on male contraception. I
also know that these methods are not available very easily in the US.
Do you know where / how one can obtian prescriptions and sources of
the hormone drugs either in the US or via overseas routes? Key is
legal!

Any help would be greatly appreciate.

You're entitled to your opinion, Mr. Willis-- and so
am I.  If you don't like the content of a note as you
start reading it, just skip it.  I do that all the
time.  And, BTW, what I said below is applicable not
just to the American but also to the British,
Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and, for all I
know, the German, French, Russian, Italian, etc. legal
systems, as well.

------------------------

    Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:59:04 -0000
    From: "Willis Ted (QDL) Bridge Street Surgery DN20
8NS"
<ted.willis@...>
Subject: RE: Re: Male contraceptive

i signed on to this group to keep up with new
developments in male
contraception, not to read opinions on the american
judicial system.

Ted Willis, 53 Bridge St. Brigg DN20 8NT 01652 657779
fax 659440

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Campbell [SMTP:mcc99@...]
> Sent: 24 November 2002 08:25
> To: malecontraceptives@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [malecontraceptives] Re: Male contraceptive
>
> Talk about irresponsible attitudes!  I do hope
you're
> just having us all on!
>
> Firstly, a vast majority of medical professionals in
> the western world agree that to avoid unwanted
> pregnancies, a couple should use *at least* TWO B/C


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here here...
--- malecontraceptives@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> malecontraceptives-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Re: Male contraceptive
>            From: Matt Campbell <mcc99@...>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 00:24:47 -0800 (PST)
>    From: Matt Campbell <mcc99@...>
> Subject: Re: Male contraceptive
>
> Talk about irresponsible attitudes!  I do hope
> you're
> just having us all on!
>
> Firstly, a vast majority of medical professionals in
> the western world agree that to avoid unwanted
> pregnancies, a couple should use *at least* TWO B/C
> methods.  This would include both parties being on
> their version of "the pill".
>
> Second, what makes you think for even a moment that
> men do not have a HUGE burden and risk of unwanted
> pregnancies??!  Have you any idea how men's lives
> are
> interfered with and in some cases destroyed by a
> woman's UNILATERAL decision to bring a fetus to
> term,
> backed up by a paternalistic and antil-male judicial
> system?  When you stop to consider the many
> falsely-assigned paternities in America and other
> western nations that are upheld in courts, even
> after
> it's PROVEN a child is not the progeny of the "legal
> father", and the undeniable FACT that men have NO
> post-conceptive choice in the matter of whether a
> fetus is brought to term, you will see that it is
> MEN
> who carry the greatest risk of unwanted pregnancy.
> Ihave NO intention at all of marrying or having
> children in a western country until the laws are
> changed to acknowledge the right of men to a "paper
> abortion" and an absolutte RIGHT to a paternity test
> ON DEMAND.
>
> Gender feminists and their sycophantic political
> lap-dogs have made this state of affairs come about.
>
> Until they are purged from influence and their
> corruption reversed, you may continue to expect the
> native-born reproduction rates to free-fall.  Many
> men
> like myself are more than aware of what is going on
> here and by hook or by crook, we will change it--
> for
> our sakes.
>
> Visit http://www.nas.com/c4m/ to be enlightened.
>
>
> >    Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:42:44 -0000
> >    From: "nurse200196" <nurse200196@...>
> > Subject: Male contraceptive
> >
> > I am estatic that a contraceptive for men will be
> > available in the
> > near future. It will be a relief to throw away my
> > stupid pill and
> > leave the risk & burden to the men!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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i signed on to this group to keep up with new developments in male
contraception, not to read opinions on the american judicial system.

Ted Willis, 53 Bridge St. Brigg DN20 8NT 01652 657779 fax 659440

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Campbell [SMTP:mcc99@...]
> Sent: 24 November 2002 08:25
> To: malecontraceptives@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [malecontraceptives] Re: Male contraceptive
>
> Talk about irresponsible attitudes!  I do hope you're
> just having us all on!
>
> Firstly, a vast majority of medical professionals in
> the western world agree that to avoid unwanted
> pregnancies, a couple should use *at least* TWO B/C
> methods.  This would include both parties being on
> their version of "the pill".
>
> Second, what makes you think for even a moment that
> men do not have a HUGE burden and risk of unwanted
> pregnancies??!  Have you any idea how men's lives are
> interfered with and in some cases destroyed by a
> woman's UNILATERAL decision to bring a fetus to term,
> backed up by a paternalistic and antil-male judicial
> system?  When you stop to consider the many
> falsely-assigned paternities in America and other
> western nations that are upheld in courts, even after
> it's PROVEN a child is not the progeny of the "legal
> father", and the undeniable FACT that men have NO
> post-conceptive choice in the matter of whether a
> fetus is brought to term, you will see that it is MEN
> who carry the greatest risk of unwanted pregnancy.
> Ihave NO intention at all of marrying or having
> children in a western country until the laws are
> changed to acknowledge the right of men to a "paper
> abortion" and an absolutte RIGHT to a paternity test
> ON DEMAND.
>
> Gender feminists and their sycophantic political
> lap-dogs have made this state of affairs come about.
> Until they are purged from influence and their
> corruption reversed, you may continue to expect the
> native-born reproduction rates to free-fall.  Many men
> like myself are more than aware of what is going on
> here and by hook or by crook, we will change it-- for
> our sakes.
>
> Visit http://www.nas.com/c4m/ to be enlightened.
>
>
> >    Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:42:44 -0000
> >    From: "nurse200196" <nurse200196@...>
> > Subject: Male contraceptive
> >
> > I am estatic that a contraceptive for men will be
> > available in the
> > near future. It will be a relief to throw away my
> > stupid pill and
> > leave the risk & burden to the men!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> malecontraceptives-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Talk about irresponsible attitudes!  I do hope you're
just having us all on!

Firstly, a vast majority of medical professionals in
the western world agree that to avoid unwanted
pregnancies, a couple should use *at least* TWO B/C
methods.  This would include both parties being on
their version of "the pill".

Second, what makes you think for even a moment that
men do not have a HUGE burden and risk of unwanted
pregnancies??!  Have you any idea how men's lives are
interfered with and in some cases destroyed by a
woman's UNILATERAL decision to bring a fetus to term,
backed up by a paternalistic and antil-male judicial
system?  When you stop to consider the many
falsely-assigned paternities in America and other
western nations that are upheld in courts, even after
it's PROVEN a child is not the progeny of the "legal
father", and the undeniable FACT that men have NO
post-conceptive choice in the matter of whether a
fetus is brought to term, you will see that it is MEN
who carry the greatest risk of unwanted pregnancy.
Ihave NO intention at all of marrying or having
children in a western country until the laws are
changed to acknowledge the right of men to a "paper
abortion" and an absolutte RIGHT to a paternity test
ON DEMAND.

Gender feminists and their sycophantic political
lap-dogs have made this state of affairs come about.
Until they are purged from influence and their
corruption reversed, you may continue to expect the
native-born reproduction rates to free-fall.  Many men
like myself are more than aware of what is going on
here and by hook or by crook, we will change it-- for
our sakes.

Visit http://www.nas.com/c4m/ to be enlightened.


>    Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:42:44 -0000
>    From: "nurse200196" <nurse200196@...>
> Subject: Male contraceptive
>
> I am estatic that a contraceptive for men will be
> available in the
> near future. It will be a relief to throw away my
> stupid pill and
> leave the risk & burden to the men!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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I am estatic that a contraceptive for men will be available in the
near future. It will be a relief to throw away my stupid pill and
leave the risk & burden to the men!!!!!!!!!!!

Two Firms Team Up to Develop 'Male Pill'
2 hours, 56 minutes ago  Add Science - Reuters to My Yahoo!

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Germany's Schering and Dutch rival Akzo Nobel
said on Thursday they would join forces to develop a male birth
control pill that could reach the market in five to seven years.

More than 50 years since the first oral contraceptives were developed
for women, the companies believe they have cracked a way of making a
viable hormone-based pill for men which they hope to sell in both
Europe and the United States.

"The possibility of a hormonal fertility control for men will add to
the choice of contraceptives available to couples," Werner-Karl Raff,
head of Schering's Fertility Control & Hormone Threapy business, said
in a statement.

"We are optimistic to fill this gap in the future."

Until recently, Schering and Akzo Nobel's Organon drugs unit have
been working on competing projects. Now they plan to link up in a
area which has been shunned by some other pharmaceutical companies
skeptical about the market potential.

The collaboration has begun with the design of an intermediate-stage
Phase II multi-center clinical trial, with large-scale Phase III
studies to start when the current program is satisfactorily
completed.

A male pill is much more difficult to develop than a female one
because the average man generates about 1,000 sperms every minute
while a woman only usually releases one egg per ovulation cycle.

Nonetheless, scientists at Organon have already made an effective
prototype male pill by using a synthetic hormone which suppresses
sperm production, combined with slow-release testosterone.

A male pill is not expected to replace the female one -- which now
comes in more than 40 different brands -- but it may be useful when
women can no longer take theirs because of high blood pressure or
other side effects.

A spokeswoman for Schering said no peak sales forecasts were
available yet.

Hello, I'm new to this group.  I just read about it on a web site on
male contraception.  About this RISUG...are there any trials going on
in the U.S.?  If so, how can I get involved?  I've been waiting for
something like this for a long time.  I don't like...well...
basically "relying" on the partner to take the pill every day.  There
are too many variables with just a pill.  I think with male
contraception, that 99% effectiveness (of the pill) would be 100%.
Please let me know if anyone knows of any studies going on on RISUG,
or perhaps some other methods.

I don't know what, if anything, can be inferred about gender role and
power/influence balance based on this article:

http://www.indiatogether.org/manushi/issue127/bonda.htm

It is just plain funny as hell to read, though.

Sorry, April, there are no "male pills" yet.

Yes, there is a social and cultural bias at work to
explain why more time and money has not been put into
it.  Many people still falsely believe men in general
will not get on and stay on the male pill.  Why they
believe this, I do not know.  It's been my experience
that men are far more nervous about unwanted
pregnancies in general than women, perhaps because
women have a whole lot mor epost-conceptive options
(at least in the western world) than do men, and men
have no legal say in what happens post-conceptively in
terms of assumption of liability for the child (while
women have all the say; see http://www.nas.com/c4m/ ).

Surveys show that men in many cultures are
enthusiastic about a male pill and will be more than
ready to get on and stay on it (see
http://www.malecontraceptives.org/myths.htm ).

Edinburgh University is doing research on a male pill
(see http://www.obg.ed.ac.uk/CDN/ ).  Also, read the
file "Implanon.pdf" in the Group's "Files" section for
a clinical study report that indicated near-total
sperm suppression in the men in the study.

Some believe we are only a few years away from such a
pill being available.  A lot of unwanted babies can be
born/aborted in that time, though, and a lot of lives
disrupted by unwanted pregnancy.

Just like clean fuel power, we should have and could
have had a male pill a long time ago.  But certain
powers that be (in both cases) don't like the idea....

In the mean time, just use at least two forms of birth
control.

Matt


-------------
    Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 08:48:47 -0000
    From: "anorhanian" <anorhanian@...>
Subject: Looking for male BC pills

Hello,

I'm new to this group.  I am a 30 year old female who
has been on the
pill since I was 16.  It has worked fine for me,
however, after very
irregular cycles in the past few years, I have decided
to go off the
pill for a while.  It's only been a month since I've
stopped taking
the pill and so far, and surprizingly, I feel great!
My hormones are
doing their own thing.  As a result, my sex drive has
increased and
I'm more lubricated during sex!

So, my fiancee and I have decided to search for MALE
ORAL
CONTRACEPTIVES.  From what I see on the internet, it
is still very
experimental or just not popular.

IS THIS AVAILABLE?  AND IF NOT, WHY?

I would hate to think there is a cultural/gender issue
regarding male
oral contraceptives.  After all, Can it be that
difficult for medical
science to come up with something that safely makes a
male's sperm
temporarily sterile?

My fiance and I are not ready for children and are
both willing to
share the responsibly for birth control.

Any information regarding male birth control is
greatly appreciated.

Thanks
April


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Hello,

I'm new to this group.  I am a 30 year old female who has been on the
pill since I was 16.  It has worked fine for me, however, after very
irregular cycles in the past few years, I have decided to go off the
pill for a while.  It's only been a month since I've stopped taking
the pill and so far, and surprizingly, I feel great!  My hormones are
doing their own thing.  As a result, my sex drive has increased and
I'm more lubricated during sex!

So, my fiancee and I have decided to search for MALE ORAL
CONTRACEPTIVES.  From what I see on the internet, it is still very
experimental or just not popular.

IS THIS AVAILABLE?  AND IF NOT, WHY?

I would hate to think there is a cultural/gender issue regarding male
oral contraceptives.  After all, Can it be that difficult for medical
science to come up with something that safely makes a male's sperm
temporarily sterile?

My fiance and I are not ready for children and are both willing to
share the responsibly for birth control.

Any information regarding male birth control is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
April

Hmm, I see what you mean.  If the combination of
chemicals were to damage the vas inner wall, then
maybe there might be some sperm conveyance problem
perhaps.  But would the presence of these chemicals in
the vas have much effect on sperm production in the
testes?

As to DMSO, yes, it is a skin irritant all right.  It
seems to be a popular solution for a number of
problems though because it permeates aqueous and
semi-aqueous membranes (the skin for example) and acts
as carrier of other substances (it even has its own
web site: www.dmso.com).  One treatment (though not
AMA-approved) for genital and oral herpes includes,
for example, mixing DMSO and hydrogen peroxide or
stabilized liquid oxygen in equal amounts and applying
it via cloth or spray bottle lightly to the base of
the spine or base of the neck (see
http://www.neveranoutbreak.com/html/a_cure_.html) I
can see how after a time, though, the skin may become
itchy and irritated due to DMSO's nature as a solvent.
  I suppose then a person would just strop using it
until it went away.

In any case, I suppose clinical trials will bear this
idea out.  It's too bad though the poorest of the
world's people (ie, in India) are the first to have to
be trialed-on, but at the same time, they are also
greatly overpopulated and are likely ready to try
nearly anything to reduce the no. of new children
getting born without risking the possibly painful side
effects of a vasectomy.


>    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:40:59 -0700 (PDT)
>    From: Randy Walton <rwalton3@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: University of Ottowa upcoming
> trial?
>
> > Amazing.  They are concerned for teratogenicity
> when
> > aspermazoia is found in nearly every man in the
> > studies in India (ie, if men ar eno discharging
> > viable
> > sperm, how is a teratogenic fetus going to get
> > produced anyway?).
>
> It wouldn't be an issue if it were a permanent birth
> control method, but RISUG is designed to be
> reversible.  This is probably the trouble they're
> concerned with.  Think about how RISUG might be
> used:
>
> 1.  Couple gets married.  RISUG implanted to prevent
> pregnancy until the couple is ready to have
> children.
>
> 2.  Couple decides to have children.  RISUG
> dissolved.
>
> 3.  Couple done having children.  RISUG reimplanted
> every 10 years.
>
> ...so step 2 could be the danger point.
>
> I did wonder about the use of DMSO, and I think I
> read
> that they're actually attributing some of the effect
> to the DMSO and not just to the hydrogel.  DMSO does
> have some ill effects.  Go to:
>
>
<http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/summary.tcl?edf_substance_id=67%2d68\
%2d5>
> to see the scorecard.org entry on DMSO.
>
> Randy
>

=====
If animals could speak English, would we be eating them?
-------- http://www.mygem.net/justiceforall/ -----------

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> Amazing.  They are concerned for teratogenicity when
> aspermazoia is found in nearly every man in the
> studies in India (ie, if men ar eno discharging
> viable
> sperm, how is a teratogenic fetus going to get
> produced anyway?).

It wouldn't be an issue if it were a permanent birth
control method, but RISUG is designed to be
reversible.  This is probably the trouble they're
concerned with.  Think about how RISUG might be used:

1.  Couple gets married.  RISUG implanted to prevent
pregnancy until the couple is ready to have children.

2.  Couple decides to have children.  RISUG dissolved.

3.  Couple done having children.  RISUG reimplanted
every 10 years.

...so step 2 could be the danger point.

I did wonder about the use of DMSO, and I think I read
that they're actually attributing some of the effect
to the DMSO and not just to the hydrogel.  DMSO does
have some ill effects.  Go to:

<http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/summary.tcl?edf_substance_id=67%2d68\
%2d5>
to see the scorecard.org entry on DMSO.

Randy

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Amazing.  They are concerned for teratogenicity when
aspermazoia is found in nearly every man in the
studies in India (ie, if men ar eno discharging viable
sperm, how is a teratogenic fetus going to get
produced anyway?).

Meanwhile, men get vasectomies and develop all sorts
of health problems and the medical establishment just
rakes in the cash from treating the complications and
reversing the procedure.  Disgusting!

---------------

Hi Randy,

This story on RISUG testing in Canada was posted
before Dr. Weiss's
trip to India with a team of World Health Organization
(WHO)
scientists in March.  The WHO team went on a fact
finding mission,
mainly to determine the prospects for testing RISUG
outside India.
They met with Dr. Guha (the creator of RISUG) and his
team of
researchers.  The WHO group has yet to publish their
findings, but
I've spoken to a member of the trip.  The general
consensus seems to
be that there has not been enough testing for toxicity
or
teratogenicity (causing birth defects).

I'm not sure where things go from here.  I think plans
for testing in
Canada are on hold.  I don't know if the burden of
proof will fall on
the Indian scientists, or if they will have help.
I've been waiting
to see what the WHO team writes about their trip;
their conclusions
could make or break RISUG outside of India.  I'm
hoping for progress,
too!

You can check back on our RISUG page for news as it
happens:
http://www.malecontraceptives.org/methods/risug.htm

Kirsten

--- In malecontraceptives@y..., "rwalton3"
<rwalton3@y...> wrote:
> Don't know if anyone has seen this, but a University
of Ottowa
doctor
> recently trained in India on the RISUG (formerly
SMA) technique.
> They've applied with Canadian health authorities to
begin trials:
>
>
<http://www.uottawa.ca/services/markcom/news/2002/020226-e.html>
>
> Here's hoping for some progress...
>
> Randy


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