0
If you do not want to leave the country you can try and be a part of a study
being done on the shug.

Hi Joe,

Your comments of Voegeli are confusing.  You began your message by
suggesting that even Voegeli herself was skeptical of her method, but
you ended by acknowledging her complete confidence.

I think that you were mistaken in suggesting that even Voegeli
herself offered room for permanent sterility from hot baths.  You
quote Voegeli,

"Dr Voegeli herself admits that it was 'impossible to record
reliable statistics' ("Data on the Thermic Method for...") and says
that 'for solid statistical backing, I would like to see my method
subjected to test in a number of laboratories' ("On Overpopulation").

These quotes are out of context.  WHEN was it impossible to record
reliable statistics?  Was it in ALL circumstances, or just in SOME
circumstances, and in WHAT circumstances?  What "solid statistical
backing" did Voegeli seek?  Your comments make only innuendo, no
clear answers.

Voegeli did explain that collecting certain reliable field statistics
WAS difficult.  But she cast no doubt on her LAB work.  Moreover, the
field work was still important, because from the field work AND the
lab work comes one VERY RELIABLE statistic:  Voegeli CLAIMED to have
researched her method for 30 years, in the lab and in the field, with
a large number of people, and during all of that time, and among all
of those people, NOT ONE PERMANENT STERILIZATION SURFACED!

From this one VERY RELIABLE statistic comes one VERY RELIABLE
conclusion:  Either Voegeli CONCEALED cases of permanent sterility,
OR permanent sterility was VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT.

The possibility that Voegeli concealed permanent sterility, either
accidentally or deliberately, is the weak link in her research.
For "solid statistical backing", Voegeli's research, like any such
research, REQUIRES independent testing to resolve the competence and
credibility issue.  So of course Voegeli called for independent
testing.

Voegeli's call for independent testing does not mean that she doubted
herself.  To the contrary, Voegeli declared specifically,
unequivocally and emphatically that permanent sterility from her
method was impossible.

Your passage, Hazards of Testicular Heating, looks meticulous and
detailed.  Indeed, it is easy to lose one's self in the detail and
overlook the absence of reference to hot bath, or to hot bath induced
sterility, or indeed to ANY description of HOW the "intra testicular
temperature" was controlled or measured.  In any case, the passage
cites no hot bath induced sterility, so that Voegeli is still batting
1.000.

Do not misconstrue my criticism of your passage.  The research IS
interesting, and I thank you for the citation.  But the passage
simply does not address the hot bath method, even if it SEEMS to do
so.

On the other hand, Dr. Lissner claimed that the Japanese government
had conducted several successful Voegeli hot bath experiments.

Let us put the hot bath method in perspective.  Hot water is not an
exotic material found mainly in research labs.  It is not a
prescription item.  Hot water is common; it flows straight from the
home faucet.

Home hot faucet water is often regulated to an adjustable setting
from 120F to 160F.  In MY home, this regulator adjustment has seized
and is stuck at 120F.  I commonly draw the hottest bath that I can,
whose initial temperature I recently found is 115F.  I have been
doing this years, long before I ever heard of Voegeli.  Doubtless,
plenty of men are bathing in water hotter than I use.  Medical
science literature should have an abundance of permanent sterility
examples from simple use of home hot water.  But evidently, you have
found no such examples.

And then there is the sauna, ubiquitous in Finland.  These devices
operate at 150F and UP!  Over 200F is possible, and the HIGHER end of
the scale is generally preferred in Finland.  How does the population
of Finland manage to reproduce itself?  Finland should have given you
a wealth of heat induced permanent sterility examples.  Evidently, it
did not.

Commonplace heat sources made heat induced temporary sterility known
even to Hippocrates, 2400 years ago.  If there were a THIN LINE
between TEMPORARY and PERMANENT sterility, then likewise, permanent
sterility would be common and well known.  But it is not; you do not
have even ONE example.

Clearly, if you do not feel comfortable encouraging the hot bath
method, then you should not do so.

But you should not expressly discourage hot baths, either.  You
should not demand an unusually high, and therefore unreasonable,
safety standard.  You should not give prejudicial weight to studies
which seem to suggest a vague possibility of hazard.  You should not
misrepresent the hot bath with out-of-context quotations.  Perhaps
most importantly, you should not discount the hazards of the
alternatives; ALL hazards must be BALANCED--FOR EACH MAN AND BY EACH
MAN.

Currently, there are 4 AVAILABLE possibilities:  The Voegeli hot
bath, the condom, the vasectomy, and reliance on the female partner.
Surely, you do not suggest that either condoms or vasectomy is safer
AND more reliable than Voegeli's hot bath.  And as for relying on the
female partner, following is a passage of Christopher Peterson and
Margaret P. Battin, Department of Philosophy, University of Utah,
GENDER ROLES AND MALE CONTRACEPTION,
http://www.lib.utah.edu/epubs/undergrad/vol6/peterson.html

"It cannot be doubted that men gamble every day that the
contraception currently available to them will be sufficient to
protect their choices about when, how, and with whom to reproduce,
and every day men end up wrong. It might be teenage fathers who are
then forced to choose between abandoning either their partner and
child or their plans for the future. Or it might be late middle age
married fathers who are obliged to return to parenthood perhaps much
later in life than they wish to. A lack of contraceptive options for
men shapes and distorts the reproductive destiny of men every time
they engage in sexual intimacy with a partner where a potential for
conception exists."

Jim

--- In malecontraceptives@y..., Joe Wielgosz <jwielgos@y...> wrote:
> Hi JP,
>
> Firstly, Dr Voegeli herself admits...

Hi Jim,

I acknowledge your point of view, and the many arguments you advance in
favor of heat-based contraception.

We discourage self-experimentation because we are concerned that
someone who has not done their homework might cause themselves serious
harm while attempting heat-based contraception, and then feel that our
website failed to adequately warn them of the potential risks involved.

I will freely admit that we do not have a comprehensive body of
information on the risks associated with hot water baths. The quoted
section on Hazards of Testicular Heating referred to internal scrotal
temperature, as opposed to external water temperature, and described
effects in rats, not humans. The point was simply to show that there is
evidence that a risk exists, not to quantify that risk precisely.

I encourage you to put any further information you uncover about
heat-based contraception online. If you would like you can submit a
page to us and we will consider putting it in our heat methods section.
Alternately, if you send us a URL to your own site, we will be glad to
link to it.

Especially without clear information on the level of risk, we feel that
it is important for us to err on the side of caution. I hope you at
least understand why we are taking this position, even if it is not one
you agree with. I also hope you realize that we are not likely to
change this policy - so posting your own material would be a more
constructive use of time than repeatedly attempting to persuade us to
change ours.

Regards,

- Joe

--- jp40177 <jp40177@...> wrote:
> Hi Joe,
>
> Your comments of Voegeli are confusing.  You began your message by
> suggesting that even Voegeli herself was skeptical of her method, but
>
> you ended by acknowledging her complete confidence.
>
> I think that you were mistaken in suggesting that even Voegeli
> herself offered room for permanent sterility from hot baths.  You
> quote Voegeli,
>
> "Dr Voegeli herself admits that it was 'impossible to record
> reliable statistics' ("Data on the Thermic Method for...") and says
> that 'for solid statistical backing, I would like to see my method
> subjected to test in a number of laboratories' ("On Overpopulation").
>
> These quotes are out of context.  WHEN was it impossible to record
> reliable statistics?  Was it in ALL circumstances, or just in SOME
> circumstances, and in WHAT circumstances?  What "solid statistical
> backing" did Voegeli seek?  Your comments make only innuendo, no
> clear answers.
>
> Voegeli did explain that collecting certain reliable field statistics
>
> WAS difficult.  But she cast no doubt on her LAB work.  Moreover, the
>
> field work was still important, because from the field work AND the
> lab work comes one VERY RELIABLE statistic:  Voegeli CLAIMED to have
> researched her method for 30 years, in the lab and in the field, with
>
> a large number of people, and during all of that time, and among all
> of those people, NOT ONE PERMANENT STERILIZATION SURFACED!
>
> From this one VERY RELIABLE statistic comes one VERY RELIABLE
> conclusion:  Either Voegeli CONCEALED cases of permanent sterility,
> OR permanent sterility was VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT.
>
> The possibility that Voegeli concealed permanent sterility, either
> accidentally or deliberately, is the weak link in her research.
> For "solid statistical backing", Voegeli's research, like any such
> research, REQUIRES independent testing to resolve the competence and
> credibility issue.  So of course Voegeli called for independent
> testing.
>
> Voegeli's call for independent testing does not mean that she doubted
>
> herself.  To the contrary, Voegeli declared specifically,
> unequivocally and emphatically that permanent sterility from her
> method was impossible.
>
> Your passage, Hazards of Testicular Heating, looks meticulous and
> detailed.  Indeed, it is easy to lose one's self in the detail and
> overlook the absence of reference to hot bath, or to hot bath induced
>
> sterility, or indeed to ANY description of HOW the "intra testicular
> temperature" was controlled or measured.  In any case, the passage
> cites no hot bath induced sterility, so that Voegeli is still batting
>
> 1.000.
>
> Do not misconstrue my criticism of your passage.  The research IS
> interesting, and I thank you for the citation.  But the passage
> simply does not address the hot bath method, even if it SEEMS to do
> so.
>
> On the other hand, Dr. Lissner claimed that the Japanese government
> had conducted several successful Voegeli hot bath experiments.
>
> Let us put the hot bath method in perspective.  Hot water is not an
> exotic material found mainly in research labs.  It is not a
> prescription item.  Hot water is common; it flows straight from the
> home faucet.
>
> Home hot faucet water is often regulated to an adjustable setting
> from 120F to 160F.  In MY home, this regulator adjustment has seized
> and is stuck at 120F.  I commonly draw the hottest bath that I can,
> whose initial temperature I recently found is 115F.  I have been
> doing this years, long before I ever heard of Voegeli.  Doubtless,
> plenty of men are bathing in water hotter than I use.  Medical
> science literature should have an abundance of permanent sterility
> examples from simple use of home hot water.  But evidently, you have
> found no such examples.
>
> And then there is the sauna, ubiquitous in Finland.  These devices
> operate at 150F and UP!  Over 200F is possible, and the HIGHER end of
>
> the scale is generally preferred in Finland.  How does the population
>
> of Finland manage to reproduce itself?  Finland should have given you
>
> a wealth of heat induced permanent sterility examples.  Evidently, it
>
> did not.
>
> Commonplace heat sources made heat induced temporary sterility known
> even to Hippocrates, 2400 years ago.  If there were a THIN LINE
> between TEMPORARY and PERMANENT sterility, then likewise, permanent
> sterility would be common and well known.  But it is not; you do not
> have even ONE example.
>
> Clearly, if you do not feel comfortable encouraging the hot bath
> method, then you should not do so.
>
> But you should not expressly discourage hot baths, either.  You
> should not demand an unusually high, and therefore unreasonable,
> safety standard.  You should not give prejudicial weight to studies
> which seem to suggest a vague possibility of hazard.  You should not
> misrepresent the hot bath with out-of-context quotations.  Perhaps
> most importantly, you should not discount the hazards of the
> alternatives; ALL hazards must be BALANCED--FOR EACH MAN AND BY EACH
> MAN.
>
> Currently, there are 4 AVAILABLE possibilities:  The Voegeli hot
> bath, the condom, the vasectomy, and reliance on the female partner.
>
> Surely, you do not suggest that either condoms or vasectomy is safer
> AND more reliable than Voegeli's hot bath.  And as for relying on the
>
> female partner, following is a passage of Christopher Peterson and
> Margaret P. Battin, Department of Philosophy, University of Utah,
> GENDER ROLES AND MALE CONTRACEPTION,
> http://www.lib.utah.edu/epubs/undergrad/vol6/peterson.html
>
> "It cannot be doubted that men gamble every day that the
> contraception currently available to them will be sufficient to
> protect their choices about when, how, and with whom to reproduce,
> and every day men end up wrong. It might be teenage fathers who are
> then forced to choose between abandoning either their partner and
> child or their plans for the future. Or it might be late middle age
> married fathers who are obliged to return to parenthood perhaps much
> later in life than they wish to. A lack of contraceptive options for
> men shapes and distorts the reproductive destiny of men every time
> they engage in sexual intimacy with a partner where a potential for
> conception exists."
>
> Jim
>
> --- In malecontraceptives@y..., Joe Wielgosz <jwielgos@y...> wrote:
> > Hi JP,
> >
> > Firstly, Dr Voegeli herself admits...
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> malecontraceptives-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
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HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
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All,

Please see the "Files" section for a file called "Implanon.pdf".  It
it an article entitled "Suppression of Spermatogenisis by
Estonogestrel Implants and Depot Testosterone: Potential for Long-
Acting Male Contraception". It is written for medical people, but
though most of us on this list are not MD types, I could still
understand the gist of it.

I obtained the article by asking for more information from a
university in Scotland that is on the research forefront of this
issue. See:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/836436.stm

for the article that led me to the University of Edinburgh, and:

http://www.obg.ed.ac.uk/CDN/

for the web site for the particular department. I asked the dr. who
sent me the .pdf for where I might find, if there is one, a web page
with press releases or updates on progress. But in his reply note to
me he said there was increased commercial interest in it so he hoped
that more research would be funded.

I'd say there's commercial interest. Perhaps 10,000 years worth of
pent-up demand!

Matt

Joe,

Per my last post, the odds of hazard from the hot bath method are
numerically small.  Exaggerating these odds to discourage hot bath
use increases odds of serious hazards from unwanted conception.  Also
per my last post, these hazards include devastating the lives of
either parent, an unwanted child, or other people.  Is this the side
of caution?

Frequently, both CONception and CONTRAception involve hazards of non-
zero odds.  From this symmetry, it is immediately apparent that no
universal side of caution exists, since evaluation and balance of the
hazards, within the context of their odds, is a matter of personal
preference:  Some people, like you, prefer to take no chances with
permanent sterility, but some others prefer to take no chances with
conception, and for these people permanent sterility is
advantageous.  And then there are many people whose preferences lie
between the two extremes.

Therefore, if you exaggerate the risk of any contraceptive, then you
only benefit people who share your preferences.  Consequently, people
who will not do their homework get no especial benefit.  Moreover,
the exaggeration is unfair to people who will do their homework.

You can use a disclaimer to resolve the concern that someone who will
not do his homework might cause himself serious harm:  Warn people
that you make no recommendation, and that anyone is on his own, and
that therefore he must do their homework and assume full
responsibility for his own decisions.  Dr. Lissner uses such a
disclaimer,

http://gumption.org/mcip/hint.html

and other people do, too.

There are at most small odds of hazard from the hot bath method.  You
can use the disclaimer.  No better male contraceptive method is yet
available.  Reliance on a partner for contraception carries its own
serious risks; females typically, and rightly, reject reliance on a
partner as a fundamentally unacceptable concept.  Especially given
these preceding four considerations, I regret that I cannot see
justification to exaggerate the risks of hot bath use.

Nevertheless, I do understand that you are going to continue
insisting that the hot bath carries high risk.  I understand that you
cannot be persuaded to do otherwise.  There are, however, other
members in our group besides you, and some of them may have different
attitudes.  These people read these posts, too.

In considering my "repeatedly attempting to persuade (you) to change
(your material)", please bear in mind that my arguments have always
been responses to comments that you had previously made.

I thank you for providing your reference, "Hazards of Testicular
Heating".  This was very helpful in evaluating the situation.

I thank you for acknowledging my point of view.

I thank you for offering assistance with an Internet outlet.  I do
not know whether I would have enough information for such an
opportunity, but I will certainly keep your offer in mind, and I
thank you again.

Jim


--- In malecontraceptives@y..., Joe Wielgosz <jwielgos@y...> wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> I acknowledge your point of view, and the many arguments you
advance in
> favor of heat-based contraception.
>
> We discourage self-experimentation because we are concerned that
> someone who has not done their homework might cause themselves
serious
> harm while attempting heat-based contraception, and then feel that
our
> website failed to adequately warn them of the potential risks
involved.
>
> I will freely admit that we do not have a comprehensive body of
> information on the risks associated with hot water baths. The quoted
> section on Hazards of Testicular Heating referred to internal
scrotal
> temperature, as opposed to external water temperature, and described
> effects in rats, not humans. The point was simply to show that
there is
> evidence that a risk exists, not to quantify that risk precisely.
>
> I encourage you to put any further information you uncover about
> heat-based contraception online. If you would like you can submit a
> page to us and we will consider putting it in our heat methods
section.
> Alternately, if you send us a URL to your own site, we will be glad
to
> link to it.
>
> Especially without clear information on the level of risk, we feel
that
> it is important for us to err on the side of caution. I hope you at
> least understand why we are taking this position, even if it is not
one
> you agree with. I also hope you realize that we are not likely to
> change this policy - so posting your own material would be a more
> constructive use of time than repeatedly attempting to persuade us
to
> change ours.
>
> Regards,
>
> - Joe
>
> --- jp40177 <jp40177@y...> wrote:
> > Hi Joe,
> >
> > Your comments of Voegeli are confusing.  You began your message
by
> > suggesting that even Voegeli herself was skeptical of her method,
but
> >
> > you ended by acknowledging her complete confidence.
> >
> > I think that you were mistaken in suggesting that even Voegeli
> > herself offered room for permanent sterility from hot baths.  You
> > quote Voegeli,
> >
> > "Dr Voegeli herself admits that it was 'impossible to record
> > reliable statistics' ("Data on the Thermic Method for...") and
says
> > that 'for solid statistical backing, I would like to see my method
> > subjected to test in a number of laboratories' ("On
Overpopulation").
> >
> > These quotes are out of context.  WHEN was it impossible to
record
> > reliable statistics?  Was it in ALL circumstances, or just in
SOME
> > circumstances, and in WHAT circumstances?  What "solid
statistical
> > backing" did Voegeli seek?  Your comments make only innuendo, no
> > clear answers.
> >
> > Voegeli did explain that collecting certain reliable field
statistics
> >
> > WAS difficult.  But she cast no doubt on her LAB work.  Moreover,
the
> >
> > field work was still important, because from the field work AND
the
> > lab work comes one VERY RELIABLE statistic:  Voegeli CLAIMED to
have
> > researched her method for 30 years, in the lab and in the field,
with
> >
> > a large number of people, and during all of that time, and among
all
> > of those people, NOT ONE PERMANENT STERILIZATION SURFACED!
> >
> > From this one VERY RELIABLE statistic comes one VERY RELIABLE
> > conclusion:  Either Voegeli CONCEALED cases of permanent
sterility,
> > OR permanent sterility was VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT.
> >
> > The possibility that Voegeli concealed permanent sterility,
either
> > accidentally or deliberately, is the weak link in her research.
> > For "solid statistical backing", Voegeli's research, like any
such
> > research, REQUIRES independent testing to resolve the competence
and
> > credibility issue.  So of course Voegeli called for independent
> > testing.
> >
> > Voegeli's call for independent testing does not mean that she
doubted
> >
> > herself.  To the contrary, Voegeli declared specifically,
> > unequivocally and emphatically that permanent sterility from her
> > method was impossible.
> >
> > Your passage, Hazards of Testicular Heating, looks meticulous and
> > detailed.  Indeed, it is easy to lose one's self in the detail
and
> > overlook the absence of reference to hot bath, or to hot bath
induced
> >
> > sterility, or indeed to ANY description of HOW the "intra
testicular
> > temperature" was controlled or measured.  In any case, the
passage
> > cites no hot bath induced sterility, so that Voegeli is still
batting
> >
> > 1.000.
> >
> > Do not misconstrue my criticism of your passage.  The research IS
> > interesting, and I thank you for the citation.  But the passage
> > simply does not address the hot bath method, even if it SEEMS to
do
> > so.
> >
> > On the other hand, Dr. Lissner claimed that the Japanese
government
> > had conducted several successful Voegeli hot bath experiments.
> >
> > Let us put the hot bath method in perspective.  Hot water is not
an
> > exotic material found mainly in research labs.  It is not a
> > prescription item.  Hot water is common; it flows straight from
the
> > home faucet.
> >
> > Home hot faucet water is often regulated to an adjustable setting
> > from 120F to 160F.  In MY home, this regulator adjustment has
seized
> > and is stuck at 120F.  I commonly draw the hottest bath that I
can,
> > whose initial temperature I recently found is 115F.  I have been
> > doing this years, long before I ever heard of Voegeli.
Doubtless,
> > plenty of men are bathing in water hotter than I use.  Medical
> > science literature should have an abundance of permanent
sterility
> > examples from simple use of home hot water.  But evidently, you
have
> > found no such examples.
> >
> > And then there is the sauna, ubiquitous in Finland.  These
devices
> > operate at 150F and UP!  Over 200F is possible, and the HIGHER
end of
> >
> > the scale is generally preferred in Finland.  How does the
population
> >
> > of Finland manage to reproduce itself?  Finland should have given
you
> >
> > a wealth of heat induced permanent sterility examples.
Evidently, it
> >
> > did not.
> >
> > Commonplace heat sources made heat induced temporary sterility
known
> > even to Hippocrates, 2400 years ago.  If there were a THIN LINE
> > between TEMPORARY and PERMANENT sterility, then likewise,
permanent
> > sterility would be common and well known.  But it is not; you do
not
> > have even ONE example.
> >
> > Clearly, if you do not feel comfortable encouraging the hot bath
> > method, then you should not do so.
> >
> > But you should not expressly discourage hot baths, either.  You
> > should not demand an unusually high, and therefore unreasonable,
> > safety standard.  You should not give prejudicial weight to
studies
> > which seem to suggest a vague possibility of hazard.  You should
not
> > misrepresent the hot bath with out-of-context quotations.
Perhaps
> > most importantly, you should not discount the hazards of the
> > alternatives; ALL hazards must be BALANCED--FOR EACH MAN AND BY
EACH
> > MAN.
> >
> > Currently, there are 4 AVAILABLE possibilities:  The Voegeli hot
> > bath, the condom, the vasectomy, and reliance on the female
partner.
> >
> > Surely, you do not suggest that either condoms or vasectomy is
safer
> > AND more reliable than Voegeli's hot bath.  And as for relying on
the
> >
> > female partner, following is a passage of Christopher Peterson
and
> > Margaret P. Battin, Department of Philosophy, University of Utah,
> > GENDER ROLES AND MALE CONTRACEPTION,
> > http://www.lib.utah.edu/epubs/undergrad/vol6/peterson.html
> >
> > "It cannot be doubted that men gamble every day that the
> > contraception currently available to them will be sufficient to
> > protect their choices about when, how, and with whom to
reproduce,
> > and every day men end up wrong. It might be teenage fathers who
are
> > then forced to choose between abandoning either their partner and
> > child or their plans for the future. Or it might be late middle
age
> > married fathers who are obliged to return to parenthood perhaps
much
> > later in life than they wish to. A lack of contraceptive options
for
> > men shapes and distorts the reproductive destiny of men every
time
> > they engage in sexual intimacy with a partner where a potential
for
> > conception exists."
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > --- In malecontraceptives@y..., Joe Wielgosz <jwielgos@y...>
wrote:
> > > Hi JP,
> > >
> > > Firstly, Dr Voegeli herself admits...
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > malecontraceptives-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
> http://www.hotjobs.com

See the action item at:

http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?itemid=13679

This is a good chance to add your concerns about male contraceptive
options.  I edited the pre-fabbed letter to include my concerns about
the slow development of a safe "male pill" as well as the absence of
a legal way to exercise a "paper abortion" within the first three
months he is informed of the pregnancy/existence of the child,
allowing a man to disavow liability for a woman's decision to bring a
fetus to term (or not).  I also voiced my concern that men have no
absolute right to confirm their paternity of a child via DNA
sampling, so advocated for this right for men who are deemed the
father of a child by a court or so named by a woman.

Thanks for the tip-off!

- Joe

--- mcc99 <mcc99@...> wrote:
> See the action item at:
>
> http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?itemid=13679
>
> This is a good chance to add your concerns about male contraceptive
> options.  I edited the pre-fabbed letter to include my concerns about
>
> the slow development of a safe "male pill" as well as the absence of
> a legal way to exercise a "paper abortion" within the first three
> months he is informed of the pregnancy/existence of the child,
> allowing a man to disavow liability for a woman's decision to bring a
>
> fetus to term (or not).  I also voiced my concern that men have no
> absolute right to confirm their paternity of a child via DNA
> sampling, so advocated for this right for men who are deemed the
> father of a child by a court or so named by a woman.
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> malecontraceptives-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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do you know if there has been any progress on the development of the
male contraceptive pill?  I have been looking on websites but most
of them are either very outdated or entirely too vague to answer my
question.  If you could email your response to me I would appreciate
it....
George

Hi George,

Have you read through the "methods" section of our website?

http://www.malecontraceptives.org/methods/

We have a section devoted to hormonal contraception:

http://www.malecontraceptives.org/methods/hormonal.htm

- Joe

--- judo4eva <judo4eva@...> wrote:
> do you know if there has been any progress on the development of the
> male contraceptive pill?  I have been looking on websites but most
> of them are either very outdated or entirely too vague to answer my
> question.  If you could email your response to me I would appreciate
> it....
> George
>
>
>
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Progress seems suspiciously slow.

There is a file called 'Implanon.pdf' in the Files
secion of our Group home page on Yahoo:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/malecontraceptives/ that
I added about 3 weeks back describing a clinical study
using implants on men in the UK.  But there is no
planned follow-up that I am aware of even though the
trial was successful in suppressing spermatazoa
production in all the men, except the three who
dropped out, w/out noticable definite side-effects.

------------------

Subject: any progress?

do you know if there has been any progress on the
development of the
male contraceptive pill?  I have been looking on
websites but most
of them are either very outdated or entirely too vague
to answer my
question.  If you could email your response to me I
would appreciate
it....
George


=====
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-------- http://www.mygem.net/justiceforall/ -----------

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Greetings,

I am thinking about experimenting with Lei Gong Ten, or Tripterygium
Wilfordii.  I have found a couple of sources where I can get it in
capsule form which is advertised for use with inflammation and arthritis.

The primary concern for me is the toxicity issue.  I have read online
several documents which mention the immunosuppresion affects if taken
at certain amounts.  However, one would think that this would not be
an issue with the amount you would be getting from the capsules listed
above.

Also, how can I measure progress?  Since the chemical is stated to
cause disfiguration in the sperm and loss of motile function, I would
expect that this could be observed under a microscope, right?

Any thoughts?

--Kevin Killingsworth

So let's cut to the chase here.  How close is a male "pill" or
injection o completion?  I can't find anyhing but possiblities from
years ago on yahoo.  And the sites you've listed all say one
thing...We've found the answer, but then they leave you hanging.

Jon,

Well, there's a few shimmers of hope.  A clinical
study was done in the UK using injections and pills.
See the Group's "Documents" section for a file:
"Implanon.pdf", which I posted there, that discusses
the trial.  The results were promising but for some
reason, it seems despite the clearly huge market
potential for male b/c pills/injections, that
development is slower than mollasses in winter.  I
cannot for the life of me understand why this is not
being pursued more aggressively.

Hey, if there is anyone on this list who works for a
drug maker, please add some commentary about why you
think it seems things are going so rat-stinkin' slow?

Matt

>    Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:39:09 -0000
>    From: " Jon " <brunnjon@...>
> Subject: Heyya...
>
>
>
>    So let's cut to the chase here.  How close is a
> male "pill" or
> injection o completion?  I can't find anyhing but
> possiblities from
> years ago on yahoo.  And the sites you've listed all
> say one
> thing...We've found the answer, but then they leave
> you hanging.
>


=====
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-------- http://www.mygem.net/justiceforall/ -----------

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Hey folks,

My understanding is that WHO is in phase III trials with DMPA +
testosterone for men in Indonesia.  According to a guy I met at a
conference who was doing research on the acceptability of this method,
WHO is "tinkering" with the doseage, trying to get maximum protection
from one injection. (If anyone is interested about how Indonesian
couples feel about the method, abstract available at:
http://paa2002.princeton.edu/abstractViewer.asp?submissionId=60823)

Re: why male method research is going so slowly. From a biological
standpoint, my reproductive biology profs have always maintained that
it's a lot easier to prevent pregnancy when you only have to do it once
a month -- e.g., prevent ovulation or implantation-- as opposed to
suppressing a constant process (sperm production).

While biology does play a role, there is a HUGE bias in the research
community about male methods. People still run around saying things like
"oh, men will never want to adopt a pill or injection" when that's a
load of BS. WHO about 1.5 or 2 years ago did a multi-country male method
acceptability study, and the results were positive: Men were
overwhelmingly likely to say that they would be interested in trying out
a male method. Even in traditional, "macho"-type cultures. So when
people say "men will never go for it," they're just buying into
stereotypes about how all men are irresponsible jerks, etc etc etc.  Of
course, I remember reading the news article about the study and the lead
paragraph was how surprised the reporter was to find out that many men
are responsible human beings and want to take an active role in
pregnancy prevention. So it really is a widespread thing. (A colleague
of mine even said that when she floated a PhD dissertation topic of the
acceptability of male methods at a top public health university, the
female professor who was her advisor said "Oh, men will NEVER want to go
for something like that. Don't waste your time." [yes, I screamed in
anger, and made sure that said colleague forwarded the above WHO study
to this prof, in the hopes that she get her head out of her a$$])

So, if you're Huge Pharmaceutical Firm A, are you really want to going
to invest in R&D, three phases of clinical trials, FDA approval,
marketing, and sales on a method that, in their minds, has tremendously
limited demand? I mean, traditional pharmaceutical firms in the US are
totally ignoring microbicide development, leaving it to universities and
non-profits like the Population Council 'cause they feel the profit
margin for microbicides is too small.

Personally, if I was male, I would devote my life to advocating the
development of hormonal, reversible, male contraceptive methods. I know
one too many men who have been "ooopsed" by women, and it's a shame that
men have such limited options. Condoms are only about 85% effective as
typically used. I'm sorry, but those are odds I would NOT want to go
with. The only other option is vasectomy, which is only appropriate when
men do not want any more children. Not a lot of choice.

Some random articles for your viewing pleasure...
Why Male Contraception isn't on the Radar Screen (editorial)
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/176_05_040302/han10001.html

A 1999 paper on where they are with male methods:
http://matweb.hcuge.ch/endo/Lectures_9th_PGC/Mbizvo.htm

You can probably search on the methods Mbizvo covers to see where they
are now. Medline or Popline would have abstracts of the articles, for
certain.

cheers,
Vera

----- Original Message -----
From: malecontraceptives@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 15, 2002 5:26 pm
Subject: [malecontraceptives] Digest Number 29

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> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>      1. Re: Digest Number 28
>           From: Matt Campbell <mcc99@...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>   Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 20:25:26 -0700 (PDT)
>   From: Matt Campbell <mcc99@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 28
>
> Jon,
>
> Well, there's a few shimmers of hope.  A clinical
> study was done in the UK using injections and pills.
> See the Group's "Documents" section for a file:
> "Implanon.pdf", which I posted there, that discusses
> the trial.  The results were promising but for some
> reason, it seems despite the clearly huge market
> potential for male b/c pills/injections, that
> development is slower than mollasses in winter.  I
> cannot for the life of me understand why this is not
> being pursued more aggressively.
>
> Hey, if there is anyone on this list who works for a
> drug maker, please add some commentary about why you
> think it seems things are going so rat-stinkin' slow?
>
> Matt
>
> >    Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:39:09 -0000
> >    From: " Jon " <brunnjon@...>
> > Subject: Heyya...
> >
> >
> >
> >    So let's cut to the chase here.  How close is a
> > male "pill" or
> > injection o completion?  I can't find anyhing but
> > possiblities from
> > years ago on yahoo.  And the sites you've listed all
> > say one
> > thing...We've found the answer, but then they leave
> > you hanging.
> >
>
>
> =====
> If animals could speak English, would we be eating them?
> -------- http://www.mygem.net/justiceforall/ -----------
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
> http://news.yahoo.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

All,

Just found a seemingly good site re contraception.
One of its pages includes a list of "future
contraception methods", including a heading "For Men":

http://test.bagus.org/sex/contraceptive_choices/birth_control_methods/future_met\
hods/index.html

Now if only the future were now....

Matt

=====
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-------- http://www.mygem.net/justiceforall/ -----------

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Thank you, Vera.  Yes, it's sooo disheartening to run
into that "aw c'mon, men won't do it..." attitude.
Considering the financial and other consequences to a
man of an unwanted pregnancy, people who do not think
he will be mindful of things like
injectable/pill-based male contraceptive methods just
are not paying attention!

----------------
>    Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:25:14 -0400
>    From: Vera Zlidar <vzlidar@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 29
>
> Hey folks,
>
> My understanding is that WHO is in phase III trials
> with DMPA +
> testosterone for men in Indonesia.  According to a
> guy I met at a
> conference who was doing research on the
> acceptability of this method,
> WHO is "tinkering" with the doseage, trying to get
> maximum protection
> from one injection. (If anyone is interested about
> how Indonesian
> couples feel about the method, abstract available
> at:
>
http://paa2002.princeton.edu/abstractViewer.asp?submissionId=60823)
>
> Re: why male method research is going so slowly.
> From a biological
> standpoint, my reproductive biology profs have
> always maintained that
> it's a lot easier to prevent pregnancy when you only
> have to do it once
> a month -- e.g., prevent ovulation or implantation--
> as opposed to
> suppressing a constant process (sperm production).
>
> While biology does play a role, there is a HUGE bias
> in the research
> community about male methods. People still run
> around saying things like
> "oh, men will never want to adopt a pill or
> injection" when that's a
> load of BS. WHO about 1.5 or 2 years ago did a
> multi-country male method
> acceptability study, and the results were positive:
> Men were
> overwhelmingly likely to say that they would be
> interested in trying out
> a male method. Even in traditional, "macho"-type
> cultures. So when
> people say "men will never go for it," they're just
> buying into
> stereotypes about how all men are irresponsible
> jerks, etc etc etc.  Of
> course, I remember reading the news article about
> the study and the lead
> paragraph was how surprised the reporter was to find
> out that many men
> are responsible human beings and want to take an
> active role in
> pregnancy prevention. So it really is a widespread
> thing. (A colleague
> of mine even said that when she floated a PhD
> dissertation topic of the
> acceptability of male methods at a top public health
> university, the
> female professor who was her advisor said "Oh, men
> will NEVER want to go
> for something like that. Don't waste your time."
> [yes, I screamed in
> anger, and made sure that said colleague forwarded
> the above WHO study
> to this prof, in the hopes that she get her head out
> of her a$$])
>
> So, if you're Huge Pharmaceutical Firm A, are you
> really want to going
> to invest in R&D, three phases of clinical trials,
> FDA approval,
> marketing, and sales on a method that, in their
> minds, has tremendously
> limited demand? I mean, traditional pharmaceutical
> firms in the US are
> totally ignoring microbicide development, leaving it
> to universities and
> non-profits like the Population Council 'cause they
> feel the profit
> margin for microbicides is too small.
>
> Personally, if I was male, I would devote my life to
> advocating the
> development of hormonal, reversible, male
> contraceptive methods. I know
> one too many men who have been "ooopsed" by women,
> and it's a shame that
> men have such limited options. Condoms are only
> about 85% effective as
> typically used. I'm sorry, but those are odds I
> would NOT want to go
> with. The only other option is vasectomy, which is
> only appropriate when
> men do not want any more children. Not a lot of
> choice.
>
> Some random articles for your viewing pleasure...
> Why Male Contraception isn't on the Radar Screen
> (editorial)
>
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/176_05_040302/han10001.html
>
> A 1999 paper on where they are with male methods:
>
http://matweb.hcuge.ch/endo/Lectures_9th_PGC/Mbizvo.htm
>
> You can probably search on the methods Mbizvo covers
> to see where they
> are now. Medline or Popline would have abstracts of
> the articles, for
> certain.
>
> cheers,
> Vera
>
>

=====
If animals could speak English, would we be eating them?
-------- http://www.mygem.net/justiceforall/ -----------

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All,

Have you guys discussed the work being done by IMMUCON? In my opinion,
the first company to corner the market on a viable, long term male
contraceptive will change the course of human history. I'm writing a
book on the subject. Let me know if you are interested in seeing some
excerpts.

Sarann

Hi Sarann,

I came across the Immucon website a while back (www.immucon.com).
They don't offer much information regarding their research on their
website... just a few sentences about a monthly male contraceptive
pill.  Do you have further information about their research and
progress?  Have they published any of their findings?

Regards,
Kirsten

--- In malecontraceptives@y..., "sarannspe" <sarannspe@y...> wrote:
> All,
>
> Have you guys discussed the work being done by IMMUCON? In my
opinion,
> the first company to corner the market on a viable, long term male
> contraceptive will change the course of human history. I'm writing a
> book on the subject. Let me know if you are interested in seeing
some
> excerpts.
>
> Sarann

I am!


> Message: 1
>    Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 17:57:45 -0000
>    From: "sarannspe" <sarannspe@...>
> Subject: IMMUCON
>
> All,
>
> Have you guys discussed the work being done by
> IMMUCON? In my opinion,
> the first company to corner the market on a viable,
> long term male
> contraceptive will change the course of human
> history. I'm writing a
> book on the subject. Let me know if you are
> interested in seeing some
> excerpts.
>
> Sarann
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Don't know if anyone has seen this, but a University of Ottowa doctor
recently trained in India on the RISUG (formerly SME) technique.
They've applied with Canadian health authorities to begin trials:

<http://www.uottawa.ca/services/markcom/news/2002/020226-e.html>

Here's hoping for some progress...

Randy

Hi Randy,

This story on RISUG testing in Canada was posted before Dr. Weiss's
trip to India with a team of World Health Organization (WHO)
scientists in March.  The WHO team went on a fact finding mission,
mainly to determine the prospects for testing RISUG outside India.
They met with Dr. Guha (the creator of RISUG) and his team of
researchers.  The WHO group has yet to publish their findings, but
I've spoken to a member of the trip.  The general consensus seems to
be that there has not been enough testing for toxicity or
teratogenicity (causing birth defects).

I'm not sure where things go from here.  I think plans for testing in
Canada are on hold.  I don't know if the burden of proof will fall on
the Indian scientists, or if they will have help.  I've been waiting
to see what the WHO team writes about their trip; their conclusions
could make or break RISUG outside of India.  I'm hoping for progress,
too!

You can check back on our RISUG page for news as it happens:
http://www.malecontraceptives.org/methods/risug.htm

Kirsten

--- In malecontraceptives@y..., "rwalton3" <rwalton3@y...> wrote:
> Don't know if anyone has seen this, but a University of Ottowa
doctor
> recently trained in India on the RISUG (formerly SMA) technique.
> They've applied with Canadian health authorities to begin trials:
>
> <http://www.uottawa.ca/services/markcom/news/2002/020226-e.html>
>
> Here's hoping for some progress...
>
> Randy

Amazing.  They are concerned for teratogenicity when
aspermazoia is found in nearly every man in the
studies in India (ie, if men ar eno discharging viable
sperm, how is a teratogenic fetus going to get
produced anyway?).

Meanwhile, men get vasectomies and develop all sorts
of health problems and the medical establishment just
rakes in the cash from treating the complications and
reversing the procedure.  Disgusting!

---------------

Hi Randy,

This story on RISUG testing in Canada was posted
before Dr. Weiss's
trip to India with a team of World Health Organization
(WHO)
scientists in March.  The WHO team went on a fact
finding mission,
mainly to determine the prospects for testing RISUG
outside India.
They met with Dr. Guha (the creator of RISUG) and his
team of
researchers.  The WHO group has yet to publish their
findings, but
I've spoken to a member of the trip.  The general
consensus seems to
be that there has not been enough testing for toxicity
or
teratogenicity (causing birth defects).

I'm not sure where things go from here.  I think plans
for testing in
Canada are on hold.  I don't know if the burden of
proof will fall on
the Indian scientists, or if they will have help.
I've been waiting
to see what the WHO team writes about their trip;
their conclusions
could make or break RISUG outside of India.  I'm
hoping for progress,
too!

You can check back on our RISUG page for news as it
happens:
http://www.malecontraceptives.org/methods/risug.htm

Kirsten

--- In malecontraceptives@y..., "rwalton3"
<rwalton3@y...> wrote:
> Don't know if anyone has seen this, but a University
of Ottowa
doctor
> recently trained in India on the RISUG (formerly
SMA) technique.
> They've applied with Canadian health authorities to
begin trials:
>
>
<http://www.uottawa.ca/services/markcom/news/2002/020226-e.html>
>
> Here's hoping for some progress...
>
> Randy


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> Amazing.  They are concerned for teratogenicity when
> aspermazoia is found in nearly every man in the
> studies in India (ie, if men ar eno discharging
> viable
> sperm, how is a teratogenic fetus going to get
> produced anyway?).

It wouldn't be an issue if it were a permanent birth
control method, but RISUG is designed to be
reversible.  This is probably the trouble they're
concerned with.  Think about how RISUG might be used:

1.  Couple gets married.  RISUG implanted to prevent
pregnancy until the couple is ready to have children.

2.  Couple decides to have children.  RISUG dissolved.

3.  Couple done having children.  RISUG reimplanted
every 10 years.

...so step 2 could be the danger point.

I did wonder about the use of DMSO, and I think I read
that they're actually attributing some of the effect
to the DMSO and not just to the hydrogel.  DMSO does
have some ill effects.  Go to:

<http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/summary.tcl?edf_substance_id=67%2d68\
%2d5>
to see the scorecard.org entry on DMSO.

Randy

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Hmm, I see what you mean.  If the combination of
chemicals were to damage the vas inner wall, then
maybe there might be some sperm conveyance problem
perhaps.  But would the presence of these chemicals in
the vas have much effect on sperm production in the
testes?

As to DMSO, yes, it is a skin irritant all right.  It
seems to be a popular solution for a number of
problems though because it permeates aqueous and
semi-aqueous membranes (the skin for example) and acts
as carrier of other substances (it even has its own
web site: www.dmso.com).  One treatment (though not
AMA-approved) for genital and oral herpes includes,
for example, mixing DMSO and hydrogen peroxide or
stabilized liquid oxygen in equal amounts and applying
it via cloth or spray bottle lightly to the base of
the spine or base of the neck (see
http://www.neveranoutbreak.com/html/a_cure_.html) I
can see how after a time, though, the skin may become
itchy and irritated due to DMSO's nature as a solvent.
  I suppose then a person would just strop using it
until it went away.

In any case, I suppose clinical trials will bear this
idea out.  It's too bad though the poorest of the
world's people (ie, in India) are the first to have to
be trialed-on, but at the same time, they are also
greatly overpopulated and are likely ready to try
nearly anything to reduce the no. of new children
getting born without risking the possibly painful side
effects of a vasectomy.


>    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:40:59 -0700 (PDT)
>    From: Randy Walton <rwalton3@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: University of Ottowa upcoming
> trial?
>
> > Amazing.  They are concerned for teratogenicity
> when
> > aspermazoia is found in nearly every man in the
> > studies in India (ie, if men ar eno discharging
> > viable
> > sperm, how is a teratogenic fetus going to get
> > produced anyway?).
>
> It wouldn't be an issue if it were a permanent birth
> control method, but RISUG is designed to be
> reversible.  This is probably the trouble they're
> concerned with.  Think about how RISUG might be
> used:
>
> 1.  Couple gets married.  RISUG implanted to prevent
> pregnancy until the couple is ready to have
> children.
>
> 2.  Couple decides to have children.  RISUG
> dissolved.
>
> 3.  Couple done having children.  RISUG reimplanted
> every 10 years.
>
> ...so step 2 could be the danger point.
>
> I did wonder about the use of DMSO, and I think I
> read
> that they're actually attributing some of the effect
> to the DMSO and not just to the hydrogel.  DMSO does
> have some ill effects.  Go to:
>
>
<http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/summary.tcl?edf_substance_id=67%2d68\
%2d5>
> to see the scorecard.org entry on DMSO.
>
> Randy
>

=====
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-------- http://www.mygem.net/justiceforall/ -----------

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Hello,

I'm new to this group.  I am a 30 year old female who has been on the
pill since I was 16.  It has worked fine for me, however, after very
irregular cycles in the past few years, I have decided to go off the
pill for a while.  It's only been a month since I've stopped taking
the pill and so far, and surprizingly, I feel great!  My hormones are
doing their own thing.  As a result, my sex drive has increased and
I'm more lubricated during sex!

So, my fiancee and I have decided to search for MALE ORAL
CONTRACEPTIVES.  From what I see on the internet, it is still very
experimental or just not popular.

IS THIS AVAILABLE?  AND IF NOT, WHY?

I would hate to think there is a cultural/gender issue regarding male
oral contraceptives.  After all, Can it be that difficult for medical
science to come up with something that safely makes a male's sperm
temporarily sterile?

My fiance and I are not ready for children and are both willing to
share the responsibly for birth control.

Any information regarding male birth control is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
April

Sorry, April, there are no "male pills" yet.

Yes, there is a social and cultural bias at work to
explain why more time and money has not been put into
it.  Many people still falsely believe men in general
will not get on and stay on the male pill.  Why they
believe this, I do not know.  It's been my experience
that men are far more nervous about unwanted
pregnancies in general than women, perhaps because
women have a whole lot mor epost-conceptive options
(at least in the western world) than do men, and men
have no legal say in what happens post-conceptively in
terms of assumption of liability for the child (while
women have all the say; see http://www.nas.com/c4m/ ).

Surveys show that men in many cultures are
enthusiastic about a male pill and will be more than
ready to get on and stay on it (see
http://www.malecontraceptives.org/myths.htm ).

Edinburgh University is doing research on a male pill
(see http://www.obg.ed.ac.uk/CDN/ ).  Also, read the
file "Implanon.pdf" in the Group's "Files" section for
a clinical study report that indicated near-total
sperm suppression in the men in the study.

Some believe we are only a few years away from such a
pill being available.  A lot of unwanted babies can be
born/aborted in that time, though, and a lot of lives
disrupted by unwanted pregnancy.

Just like clean fuel power, we should have and could
have had a male pill a long time ago.  But certain
powers that be (in both cases) don't like the idea....

In the mean time, just use at least two forms of birth
control.

Matt


-------------
    Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 08:48:47 -0000
    From: "anorhanian" <anorhanian@...>
Subject: Looking for male BC pills

Hello,

I'm new to this group.  I am a 30 year old female who
has been on the
pill since I was 16.  It has worked fine for me,
however, after very
irregular cycles in the past few years, I have decided
to go off the
pill for a while.  It's only been a month since I've
stopped taking
the pill and so far, and surprizingly, I feel great!
My hormones are
doing their own thing.  As a result, my sex drive has
increased and
I'm more lubricated during sex!

So, my fiancee and I have decided to search for MALE
ORAL
CONTRACEPTIVES.  From what I see on the internet, it
is still very
experimental or just not popular.

IS THIS AVAILABLE?  AND IF NOT, WHY?

I would hate to think there is a cultural/gender issue
regarding male
oral contraceptives.  After all, Can it be that
difficult for medical
science to come up with something that safely makes a
male's sperm
temporarily sterile?

My fiance and I are not ready for children and are
both willing to
share the responsibly for birth control.

Any information regarding male birth control is
greatly appreciated.

Thanks
April


__________________________________________________
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I don't know what, if anything, can be inferred about gender role and
power/influence balance based on this article:

http://www.indiatogether.org/manushi/issue127/bonda.htm

It is just plain funny as hell to read, though.

Hello, I'm new to this group.  I just read about it on a web site on
male contraception.  About this RISUG...are there any trials going on
in the U.S.?  If so, how can I get involved?  I've been waiting for
something like this for a long time.  I don't like...well...
basically "relying" on the partner to take the pill every day.  There
are too many variables with just a pill.  I think with male
contraception, that 99% effectiveness (of the pill) would be 100%.
Please let me know if anyone knows of any studies going on on RISUG,
or perhaps some other methods.

Two Firms Team Up to Develop 'Male Pill'
2 hours, 56 minutes ago  Add Science - Reuters to My Yahoo!

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Germany's Schering and Dutch rival Akzo Nobel
said on Thursday they would join forces to develop a male birth
control pill that could reach the market in five to seven years.

More than 50 years since the first oral contraceptives were developed
for women, the companies believe they have cracked a way of making a
viable hormone-based pill for men which they hope to sell in both
Europe and the United States.

"The possibility of a hormonal fertility control for men will add to
the choice of contraceptives available to couples," Werner-Karl Raff,
head of Schering's Fertility Control & Hormone Threapy business, said
in a statement.

"We are optimistic to fill this gap in the future."

Until recently, Schering and Akzo Nobel's Organon drugs unit have
been working on competing projects. Now they plan to link up in a
area which has been shunned by some other pharmaceutical companies
skeptical about the market potential.

The collaboration has begun with the design of an intermediate-stage
Phase II multi-center clinical trial, with large-scale Phase III
studies to start when the current program is satisfactorily
completed.

A male pill is much more difficult to develop than a female one
because the average man generates about 1,000 sperms every minute
while a woman only usually releases one egg per ovulation cycle.

Nonetheless, scientists at Organon have already made an effective
prototype male pill by using a synthetic hormone which suppresses
sperm production, combined with slow-release testosterone.

A male pill is not expected to replace the female one -- which now
comes in more than 40 different brands -- but it may be useful when
women can no longer take theirs because of high blood pressure or
other side effects.

A spokeswoman for Schering said no peak sales forecasts were
available yet.

I am estatic that a contraceptive for men will be available in the
near future. It will be a relief to throw away my stupid pill and
leave the risk & burden to the men!!!!!!!!!!!